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Do Non-Technical Managers Add Value?

New submitter Kimomaru writes "Ars Technica asks, 'How does a non-technical manager add value to a team of self-motivated software developers?' IT Managers have come some way in the past decade (for some). Often derided as being, at best, unnecessary and, at worst, a complete waste of budgetary resources, managers in technology today can add significant value by shielding developers and systems engineers from political nonsense and red tape. From the article: 'Don't underestimate the amount of interaction your manager does with other departments. They handle budgets, training plans, HR paperwork. They protect the developers from getting sucked into meetings with other departments and provide a unified front for your group.'" Has that been your experience?

27 of 249 comments (clear)

  1. Valuable source of proteins but especially lipids by sideslash · · Score: 5, Funny

    Consumed in moderation, they can be part of a balanced and brain enriching diet. Personally, I am sort of a vegan when it comes to this specific item at the cafeteria, so I make it up with M&Ms and Mountain Dew.

  2. Two Flavors by mythosaz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Project managers come in two flavors:

    Those who put check-marks next to items on SOWs, and those who can bring people of dissimilar skill-sets together to complete a complex project.

    Those in the former should be shot.
    Those in the later should be praised.

    1. Re:Two Flavors by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even without acting as a bridge to external people, simply having an educate but non-technical resource on hand is useful.

      If you can't explain your project to your manager in terms they can understand, you have no hope of explaining it to the end-users, upper management, budget committees, etc. If your non-technical manager sees through your bullshit, its your clue you are doing it wrong.

      Just as the act of merely explaining a problem to another programmer will often yield insight into the solution (without the other programmer saying a single word, or perhaps paying all that much attention), explaining stuff to a non-technical manager often helps with the design and implementation. The questions they ask will also be asked by others.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    2. Re:Two Flavors by Shinobi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have to agree with both you and the GP.

      A good manager without a technical background can be a boon simply because it forces you to examine the project from another angle, and can thus increase the likelihood of spotting pitfalls etc.

      Also, in terms of skills and abilities, there's a skill and a personal knack good managers have that is WAY more important technical skill: The understanding of logistics and planning ahead. Especially since it's a trait many developers themselves lack.

      Working as a freelancer, in many projects I have to do the logistics, time management, all the paperwork etc myself, which is quite complicated, and makes me value managers even more. It's often a thankless task even when the manager is good but events are beyond their control(Such as "I ordered that shipment a month ago, it arrived in-country a week ago, but it's still stuck in customs...").

    3. Re:Two Flavors by DexterIsADog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This sounds like a pretty decent environment, but I have a quibble - the project manager should not be "above you". I've held most technical, and now, most non-technical management positions in IT, and if your project manager is not working with, or often *for* you, then you're not getting your money's worth.

      However, I also believe that management at every level is at least as obligated to the people lower on the reporting hierarchy as they are to him/her, so I might be in the minority in saying that your internal customers include people who report to you.

    4. Re:Two Flavors by Dahamma · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the end it is all about communication. A person who makes communication easier is an asset to any project. If they are called a manager, whatever.

      Yeah - usually these people are called "project managers" - and they generally manage the project rather than the people. Though hopefully they are at least technically conversant, if not technically trained. It's hard to explain how useful a project manager can really be to a project until you actually work with someone truly competent in the role (because that seems to be a minority of the project managers out there - at least in my experience - so there are probably many more developers who have had only bad experiences).

      If your *personnel* manager is non-technical, on the other hand, then good luck on your reviews and career advancement, as it's just going to be a crap shoot as they make shit up...

    5. Re:Two Flavors by Threni · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Think your problem mate
      Is futile's one syllable
      Though your point still stands

    6. Re:Two Flavors by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Even without acting as a bridge to external people, simply having an educate but non-technical resource on hand is useful.

      If you can't explain your project to your manager in terms they can understand, you have no hope of explaining it to the end-users, upper management, budget committees, etc. If your non-technical manager sees through your bullshit, its your clue you are doing it wrong.

      Just as the act of merely explaining a problem to another programmer will often yield insight into the solution (without the other programmer saying a single word, or perhaps paying all that much attention), explaining stuff to a non-technical manager often helps with the design and implementation. The questions they ask will also be asked by others.

      I agree with what you say, but the problem is giving this person authority over the group. You could have such a person who is within the group but not over it. My wife actually fulfills that role for me in my business, with a couple of select customers filling in if other knowledge is required that she doesn't have.

      In my only actual "job" I had a non-technical manager who was good for most of the reasons that you say, but her cluelessness seriously held our group back in various ways. Her inability to understand at any level what we did and what a reasonable way to do it would be caused endless frustration. The "interfacing with other groups" and all that didn't work as she was too clueless and the rest of us had to carry on that responsibility. We were the internal IT department for an IT department within a larger organization, so all of these problems were amplified as the rest of the department was a bunch of nerds, also.

      On the other hand, she did take time to teach me how to write project proposals and stuff like that in which she excelled. However, that means that in the end I had acquired her extremely limited skill set myself and added it to my otherwise very marketable skill set in programming, which made her of even *less* value to our team.

      In case you think I'm pissed because I got burned, quite the opposite. She fought for me like nobody and even mentioned when I quit that my pay increase (as a percentage) during my time there was the highest in our department. I liked her as a person and think that she would have been highly effective in the right job. She had the motivation, was physically attractive (say what you want - it matters), and intelligence to be great at a lot of things. Tech just wasn't one of them.

    7. Re:Two Flavors by schnell · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you're doing actual work, you're on the bottom of the corporate hierarchy. The only thing that's really valued is the ability to lead.

      Not entirely true - at least not where I work (a giant, soulless telecom megacorporation). On the non-technical side (where I work), yes, you need to become a manager of more and more people to progress "up the ladder" in terms of pay and perks. But in our technical organization, it's well recognized that there are people who have increasingly valuable skills and insight who have no interest in management (or, frankly, should not be allowed within 100 feet of managing others). There is a whole separate track of Individual Contributor titles on our technical teams (lead architect, principal member of technical staff, distinguished member of technical staff, etc.) which run "parallel" to management titles and allows technical staff to progress in pay and perks while not technically being managers of other employees. It seems to work out well for everyone involved.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
  3. Managers by Thyamine · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think the problem is the same most IT professionals find about their own job. When you have a good manager, they are almost invisible and you don't realize what is going on behind the scenes. When they are a problem, then you notice and complain. It's how most of the other departments in a company see IT. Completely ignore them unless something is wrong, and then complain about them.

    --
    I will shred my adversaries. Pull their eyes out just enough to turn them towards their mewing, mutilated faces. Illyria
    1. Re:Managers by black6host · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think the problem is the same most IT professionals find about their own job. When you have a good manager, they are almost invisible and you don't realize what is going on behind the scenes. When they are a problem, then you notice and complain. It's how most of the other departments in a company see IT. Completely ignore them unless something is wrong, and then complain about them.

      Before retiring I was an IT manager. I can tell you my presence was a great benefit to my employees. In addition to isolating them from all the politics and idiotic suggestions from other department heads, I also was a mentor. My staff had varying skill levels and I worked with each one to help them improve their skill set. I also prevented those less qualified from being assigned tasks better handled by someone else.

      In addition, I fought the rest of upper management to make my staff's working environment enjoyable. No overtime when I was there. I knew enough to know that overtime is, generally speaking, non-productive when forced, and forced often.

      I also instituted incentive plans for those of my staff that tried hard. They didn't have to be superstars, they just had to try to improve themselves. And my staff loved me. All our software was developed in house and we did a major conversion on one of the pieces, probably the most important piece in the chain. We did it on time, minimal roll out issues and no overtime. And everyone had fun along the way.

      Problem was, the owners couldn't see the benefit I was bringing to them. Most projects like that are late, over budget and don't work right out of the gate. They fired me :)

      Wonder how they like things now?

    2. Re:Managers by sabri · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When you have a good manager, they are almost invisible and you don't realize what is going on behind the scenes

      This is so, so true. At some point in my career, I was working for a large vendor's Advanced TAC. I had a manager who occasionally would come up to my desk with some hot escalation which needed immediate attention. I was wondering what he was doing all day.

      Then came the day that he left. He got the Silicon Valley escort out of the building right after his resignation, and I got a temporary manager. All hell broke loose. That's when I realized the true value of my former manager: he was shielding his precious TAC engineers from unnecessary political escalations and made sure that we only got cases which needed our attention, and made sure we actually have some time to analyze the case before coming to a preliminary conclusion. My workload tripled.

      I have also been on the other side of that coin. Not so long ago, I was working as a team lead for another large vendor, on a project for a new product. I had a couple of engineers in my team and they would sometimes jokingly ask what I was doing all day. Coming in at 11am, delegating a bunch of tasks and leaving at 4pm. What they did not see is that I worked at home from 8am until 10:30am, and usually until late at night. When I left, I spoke my best engineer a few weeks later. He confessed that he sometimes thought that I was a slacker, but that he now got my workload and was suffering badly. Best compliment I've ever had.

      --
      I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
  4. A good manager deals with the paperwork by msobkow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A good manager deals with the paperwork of requisitions, financing, and getting "buy in" from "customer" departments and management.

    A good manager makes sure your projects have visibility, and that their successes and ROI are broadcast through the company so your department doesn't end up downsized.

    Having technical knowledge is good for a manager to understand what their team is doing and what they're saying in meetings, but "technical knowledge" is not and never has been what the manager's job is about. A good manager doesn't need to understand the details, because they're not micro-managing their staff.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  5. I've had a few in my time. by jcr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Two of the best bosses I've ever had could be described as "non-technical managers". They made sure I had what I needed to get my work done, they were very clear about the objectives, and they kept the rest of the organization from distracting our team.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    1. Re:I've had a few in my time. by dbc · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This. Rule number 1 for managers: have clear goals, and communicate them. Rule #2: make sure the team has what they need.

      The best boss I ever had was an ex-Israeli commando officer. No, no, no, he wasn't a "do it or I kill you" manager. He was good because: 1) there was never, ever, any doubt in your mind whatsoever what he wanted accomplished. 2) When you told him what you needed to accomplish that, he either got it, or adjusted the goal. When you think about it, no good officer sends in a team of commandos with a fuzzy objective and poorly equipped. To do otherwise it to spend too much of your life writing unpleasant letters to parents.

  6. How non technical? by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Managers that know nothing of programming, may have extensive industry experience.

    But a truly 'non-technical' manager brings nothing but lack of understanding to the the table. What use is a TPS report reader?

    Again though; Project management is a skill. Someone with no programming knowledge can still recognize when something is on critical path. Having no programming knowledge they might be tempted to split the critical path workload by assigning some of it to an air thief.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  7. Betteridge's Law of Headlines applies by Wizworm · · Score: 4, Funny
    --
    I always thought of Creationism as the Raving Right's version of the Loony Left's Anthropogenic Global Warming-brightmal
  8. Non-technical managers are technical by hessian · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They're technical, but in another discipline: organizational management.

    Unfortunately, most companies treat this as if it were not a discipline, which allows them to promote either (a) cronies or (b) droids who went through the project management courses that are short of an MBA.

    Your "non-technical" managers specialize in planning projects, keeping people off your backs, and keeping you from falling into common developer pitfalls.

    Keep them -- just insist on having good ones, so you have fewer of them.

  9. OP Has It by snookerdoodle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "shielding developers and systems engineers from political nonsense and red tape"

    Yup, plus shielding users and clients from those of us whose interpersonal skills aren't as great as we think they are.

    Sometimes, though, this same role can be filled by a Team Leader who actually does have great people skills.

    ObAnecdote: I had a coworker and friend who was a great developer but who always managed to get people mad at him. He was so oblivious to this fact that he'd occasionally comment about how well he got along with users and customers. One day, he came in laughing about the previous night's Big Bang Theory, telling us how clueless Sheldon was because he pissed everyone off and had no idea he was doing it. Yeah, he was that oblivious. And our manager protected many users from him.

  10. Good managers allow for code mode by quietwalker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You ever duck your head down, put the earphones on, and cut a swath through the feature list, barely realizing that you've missed lunch and it's already 7pm? You'd leave but you've just thought of a really elegant optimization routine and it's so obvious, but you need to see it work before you go?

    A good manager can provide coordination between project members, act as an insulating buffer between customers/requirements and devs, fight for resources, push back against poor requests and push forward agendas like refactoring, internal tool development, or library updates (ie, the Good Fight). Really though, this boils down to the simple goal of letting the devs do their job.

    Without all the other context switching, we're free to descend into code mode, shut out the outside world, and make beautiful code that we're proud of. In practical terms, that means less bugs, better security, efficient code, lower cost of maintenance, and so on. That's the biggest thing a manager can really provide; an environment where we're free to excel.

    That doesn't require any sort of technical chops.

  11. new respect for good managers by trybywrench · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I made the jump from developer to team lead and now on to management. Good management is very very hard, keeping people on task, motivated, and managing burn out is really more of an art than science and I'm not even including dealing with different personality strengths/weaknesses and the various combinations thereof.

    If you have a good manager or even just a not-bad manager let them know. It's a difficult position to do well and lots of folks who you respect see you as worthless.

    --
    I came to the datacenter drunk with a fake ID, don't you want to be just like me?
  12. Product Managers vs Worst Non-technical by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Salespeople

    - To be good in sales, you have to be able to lie to yourself about the quality of a product, because the customer will not be able to believe it's a good product unless you believe it's a good product.

    - To be good in sales, you have to be able to convince yourself that a customer has a need for something that they in actuality have no need for.

    - To be good in sales, you have to have the belief that "the product is awesome because I am awesome."

    - To be good in sales, you have to do anything you can to get a sale

    - A good sales person can sell sand to arabs and ice to eskimos.

    Product Managers

    - To be a good product manager, you cannot lie to yourself that a product is superior.

    - To be a good product manager, you have to design a product that people will really want and really need.

    - To be a good product manager, you have to be able to say "I am only decent if the product is decent".

    - To be a good product manager, you have to have to be willing to push back against a change that will harm the long-term usability or usefulness of a product for everyone else at the cost of getting a short term sale for one specific customer.

    - To be a good product manager, you have to make sure your company won't be selling sand to arabs or ice to eskimos, but rather selling ice to arabs to cool their drinks and sand to eskimos to give their cars traction.

    With the rare exception of someone like Steve Jobs who's good at both roles, promoting an outstanding salesperson to do product management is like hiring a convicted arsonist to run your fire department. .

  13. Acronym abuse by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 4, Funny

    Project managers come in two flavors:

    Those who put check-marks next to items on SOWs, and those who can bring people of dissimilar skill-sets together to complete a complex project.

    Those in the former should be shot.
    Those in the later should be praised.

    I assume you mean the first item on this list?

    • Statement Of Work
    • Scope Of Work
    • Special Operations Wing
    • Sign of Weakness (Wyckoff trading theory)
    • Speaking of Which
    • Schemes of Work (Department for Children, Schools and Families; UK)
    • Sound of Water
    • Suspension of Work
    • Save Our World
    • Share of Wallet
    • Spirit of the Wolf (Everquest)
    • Stand-Off Weapon
    • School-on-Wheels
    • Show Low, AZ, USA (Airport Code)
    • Superstars of Wrestling (TV Show)
    • Seal of Wisdom (gaming, world of warcraft)
    • Start of Word (computer programming)
    • Switch on Wheels (telecomunications)
    • Special Order Weapon
    • Sent on Way
    • Save Our Waterways (environmental group)
    • Source of Wealth
    • Songs of Worship
    • Subordination of Women

    Seriously, I'm getting sick of having to look up acronyms every five minutes. Why can't people just spell out WTF they're talking about these days? SMH.

    --
    Drill baby drill - on Mars
    1. Re:Acronym abuse by mythosaz · · Score: 3, Funny

      What acronym? I was referring to adult female hogs, and got the caps key stuck.

  14. Re:No by mooingyak · · Score: 4, Informative

    Depends on the manager. I had one recently (re-org. He's still around but I don't report to him anymore) who was excellent at exactly what the summary stated: shielding us from red tape and political BS. He was mildly technical - he could code if he had to, but it wasn't his strength, and (this is probably what made him good) *he knew it*. He would do requirements gathering, secure resources when necessary, and stay out of the way on technical stuff. He'd also take my estimates and grossly inflate them, which generally made them more accurate. Good managers exist, but it's an odd niche sometimes. If we swapped jobs, we'd probably both be much worse at it.

    --
    William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
  15. Depends on the Developers by dave562 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Most of the developers who I have worked with do not want to deal with all of the process and paperwork (change requests, scheduling pushes (dev to test, dev to prod), etc). In cases like that, the manager is useful because they let the team focus on what they are good at (writing code). The managers are also helpful because they free up the devs from having to deal with the frequent requests for status updates.

    Having recently started managing people in an operational capacity, I find that most of my time is now spent making sure that other people understand what their priorities are, making sure that they are getting the work done, and helping to set priorities for the department. The reality of it is that there are only so many hours in a day. While I still get to work on PoCs, and do the more risky technical tasks (like planning migrations, application deployments and upgrades, etc), I now have to "waste" time managing people. I say waste because honestly, it was not until I became a manager that I had to deal with the fact that a lot of people are not motivated. A lot of people need someone there to make sure that have done their homework. That mindset sucks, but I am not sure what to do about it. I enjoy what I do for a living, so I do not mind working. A lot of people out there just want to collect a paycheck. Managing people takes away from time that I would rather spend working with the systems or learning new technology.

    I think that I am different from the typical manager because I was given a team to help me handle my work. I had more to do than there was time in the day to get it done with. The tasks that I have to get done directly affect the profitability and operational capabilities of the organization. I know what I need to do and can set my own priorities. Given that, I have been allowed to hire some people to help me out. Therefore managing them is fairly easy because I get to set the priorities and do not have many people above me telling me what they think I should be having my team do.

    It is possible to have a good project manager who knows next to nothing about technology. We always joke that one of our PMs could be running an automobile plant just as well as she helps run our projects. She knows practically nothing about what we do, but she can build project plans, set timelines and most importantly, keep people on task. When timelines start to slip, she is great at gathering feedback about why deadlines are being missed. That feedback then helps the rest of the team realign and keep things moving forward. Again, she knows next to nothing about the feedback she is being given, but that is not her job. Her job is to keep everyone in communication with each other, and ensure that everyone has visibility into the status of the project. Lastly, she is a great resource because every project she runs is run in an orderly, predictable kind of way. In the tech world, especially among developers, it is all too common to make things up as you go. (After all, that is what developers do. They develop things that were not there before. An inherently creative process). Our devs know what when they are done with their latest build, it will get pushed into test. They do not have to spend time pushing it to test. They do not have to build the process to push it to test. That process is already there for them. Same thing with soliciting UAT feedback. They do not have to gather the feedback. The PM gathers it, orders it, prioritizes it, and then makes it available to the manager(s) and developer(s) whose code needs to be refined.

  16. Re:Maybe, maybe not by blippo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think the most important work for a manager is to :

    a) Find, Recognize and Hire talented people.
    b) Make sure that the talented people figure out how to work together.
    c) Improve and optimize the processes and the organisation ( continuously and in small steps.)
    d) Arbitrate discussions and help making decisions, but do not take them on your own
    e) Especially in larger organisations, evangelise about skills and every good thing that has been done by your teams.
    f) Have an eye on the horizon now and then. Engage the teams in strategic discussions and long term planning.

    To do these things well a deep knowledge about software development is required. ( Or about teaching, or medicine, or whatever it is the organisation is doing.)
    It's not possible to get this sort of insight without having practiced the trade for some time. Yes, it possible to manage without, but then there is a high risk that things go wrong in some - and then maybe all - of the above areas, simply because it is easy to misunderstand some things and fail to recognise others.

    Another risk is that the important things are replaced with less important things:

    v) Make sure that everyone is aware of deadlines, project plans, priorities.
    x) Order stuff that is needed.
    y) Make budgets, and report progress.
    z) ...or even : Handle and approve vacation requests

    Sure, these things must be done, but it isn't exactly rocket science and everyone and their dog is capable of handling these tasks.

    Less knowledgeable managers and project managers tend to focus a lot on status reports and reminding of deadlines,
    sadly adding about as much value as an automated mail could have done (I'm looking at YOU tick-box-guys) while missing the important stuff.

    One problem with non-technical managers is that they may 'accidentally' accept unfortunate (technological) decisions made outside the team without challenging them, or even worse make their own, perhaps because they fail to see the implications. They will then end up defending senseless decisions or policies against the team, generally having to revert to "just because" arguments, and since the decision may not be easy to back from once committed, everyone involved will become angry or whiny and the team will become generally obstructive and unhappy.