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EU Copyright Reform: Your Input Is Needed!

An anonymous reader writes "The European Commission has finally (as of last month) opened its public consultation on copyright reform. This is the first time the general public can influence EU copyright policy since fifteen years back, and it is likely at least as much time will pass until next time. In order to help you fill out the (English-only, legalese-heavy) questionnaire, some friendly hackers spent some time during the 30c3 to put together a site to help you. Anyone, EU citizen or not, organization or company, is invited to respond (deadline fifth of February). Pirate MEP Amelia Andersdotter has a more in-depth look at the consultation."

17 of 154 comments (clear)

  1. Abolish it. by Stormwatch · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No, seriously. Copyright does more harm than good. Just get rid of the whole damn thing.

    Obligatory reading.

    1. Re:Abolish it. by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Just because politicians are corrupt asshats doesn't mean that the idea of politics and government is a bad one. Likewise, just because copyright is broken doesn't mean we should get rid of it either.

      We should fix it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Abolish it. by Luckyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hi, my name is privacy. There are laws protecting me. They have nothing to do with copyright. They have everything to do with this scenario you described.

      Also, please take your faux "oh think of the children" and shove it where the sun doesn't shine.

    3. Re:Abolish it. by Bert64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The concept of owning a physical good has been around a long time, and without laws people simply used physical force to protect their ownership.

      The same thing is not true of information... You can protect information by keeping it secret, but once the secret gets out you can't stop it from spreading. Similarly the spread of information doesn't deprive the originator of that information.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    4. Re:Abolish it. by Greyfox · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Hmm. I copyright my resume to prevent dumbass recruiters from scraping it off the internet and submitting it to companies. So far that seems to be working pretty well (I haven't had to threaten to sue anyone yet.) It makes a difference because companies will typically not consider a direct application if they've already seen the same resume from a recruiter. Having the copyright notice puts recruiters on notice that I will sue the bejsus out of them (at the salary under consideration times the number of years on average I stay with a company times triple damages for intentional copyright infringement.) I think I'd have a pretty good chance of winning that, too.

      I think some tweaks could be made to the legal code without discarding it completely. You could set it back to around the original term -- 10-20 years of a legal monopoly on the work in return for it being released into the public domain at the end of that time would be fine. I'd also set it up so that if you wanted to be eligible for any additional damages for infringement, you'd be required to register a DRM-free version with the Library of Congress, which will be released at the end of the copyright term. And under no circumstances could copyright ever be used to prohibit you from using hardware you purchased and own for whatever purposes you wanted to put it to. Under my regime.

      Since politicians like money and the current copyright holders will deliver large briefcases of cash to them to prevent their little racket from being up-ended I really doubt this is much more than a dog-and-pony show before the back-room fuck-and-suck starts between the politicians and the political donors. By the time they get done I'm sure they'll have dismantled anything contributed by The People.

      --

      I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    5. Re:Abolish it. by Bert64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Copyright is supposed to be a contract between the people and those who would produce such works... A contract should have both parties give something in exchange, and a fair exchange is far more likely to be respected by those involved.

      However copyright as it exists today is not a fair exchange. The original concept has become extremely corrupted by the greed of a very small number of large publishers.
      Copyright terms are ridiculously long, to the extent that we will all be dead before any content being made today enters the public domain, and when that eventually does happen most of the content will have long been forgotten, or be unreadable due to drm schemes or degraded/obsolete media.

      Also why should someone be paid for some work they did 50 years ago, or even worse why should someone be paid for work their parents did 20 years before they were born? An honest day's work for an honest day's pay is fair - being continuously paid for the rest of your life and that or your children for work you did years ago is ridiculous. Want to provide for your children? Save or invest your money like everyone else has to.

      Copyright today does not enrich the public domain, it provides no benefit whatsoever for 99% of people which is why people won't respect it.

      Move back to a fair system. Give users the content on reasonable terms without trying to make them pay multiple times for the same thing, release it into the public domain while people are still able to remember it and people might actually respect the system.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
  2. Warning to the EU, from Canada by mark-t · · Score: 5, Informative

    Do *NOT* create any kind of web interface which automatically will send a letter to them based on some kind of template.

    Someone who was very well meaning in Canada did this during our copyright consultation and the results backfired heavily... they received a staggering number of submissions, but because of the lack of effort that it takes to simply use a website, fill in your name in an appropriate field and hit "submit" without altering any of the letter content, and the fact that a very significant majority of the letter submissions were unaltered verbatim copies of one particular website's letter, the government chose to completely ignore those submissions... although the remainder of submissions that said similar ideas but were not based on that template still accounted for a majority of the total submissions, discounting that many submissions entirely almost certainly had a negative impact on how the government interpreted the consultation and the actions that they took in the aftermath of it. If even a quarter of those so called automated submissions had been an original letter from a concerned citizen which expressed the same basic ideas, I expect that the government may have interpreted the results of that consultation very differently than they did.

    1. Re:Warning to the EU, from Canada by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hi! Original submitter here. We're well aware of this - hence if you check out the site, it's based on making the questions easy to understand and answer in your own words, rather than to have pre-filled responses.

      The point is to get many, varied, and good responses, preferrably in many different (EU) languages as well, so the Commission can't ignore them (at least not without looking like absolute asshats).

  3. Suggestion: the EU should harmonize copyright term by Animats · · Score: 4, Informative

    Most of the EU contries are signatories to the Trade Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS) treaty. That sets a minimum copyright term of 50 years. Many EU countries now have longer copyright terms, after heavy lobbying from the US music industry.

    So suggest that the EU should harmonize their nations' laws by using the 50 year TRIPS limit. The EU can do with without renegotiating any external treaties. Few works over 50 years old generate significant revenues, and longer terms just keep many works orphaned and forgotten, rather than in the public domain.

    This would set a de-facto worldwide standard of 50 years. The US, with its much longer terms, would then be the major exception, and would be under pressure to reduce its copyright term.

    It's a goal that's within reach. Whining about "copyright is evil" wiil get nowhere. Asking the EU to harmonize their laws with the WTO standard has a good chance of playing well in Brussels.

  4. Copyright is made out of people by TrollstonButterbeans · · Score: 5, Informative

    Copyright is made out of people. This isn't a joke or being funny, by the way and as a result it will NEVER be "right".

    Since copyright is made out of people, and people come up with laws to try to maximize productivity and creation, there will always be scavengers and predators looking to exploit copyright for private gain.

    Google, for example, loves weaker copyright protection so they can sell 3rd party content. Media companies and small-time authors love copyright because it rewards the creation of works.

    Meanwhile, fans dislike copyright because it creates an imbalance between quality vs. convenience (cracked software is ALWAYS better) or availability (a movie or game isn't available in a certain region or is no longer sold).

    Because copyright is made of out of people, there isn't going to be a "final solution" --- it must always be subject to revision because any legal system is subject to exploits.

    I'm not implying "you shouldn't try", actually I'm saying you always SHOULD try to improve it.

    But the results will be imperfect next time too ... because there are always at least 2 angles for exploit (the too lax exploit and the too strict exploit). This will, in fact, be a perpetual issue ...

    --
    Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
  5. Deadline is 5 February by ciaran_o_riordan · · Score: 3, Informative

    There's only one month left, don't procrastinate too long.

  6. It should, but preferably at less than 50 years by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Informative

    This would set a de-facto worldwide standard of 50 years.

    I appreciate that there is an element of fighting for what you can realistically achieve in political matters. I'm also generally in favour of retaining the basic principle of copyright, at least until a better idea for promoting the creation and distribution of new works comes along.

    Even so, I think the fundamental problem with your position is that it still implicitly accepts that a copyright term comparable to many humans' adult lifetimes is reasonable. With the rise of modern technologies, a much shorter term would still provide a substantial commercial incentive to create and share new works, without locking up aspects of our culture to the same degree. I'm open to discussions on the specifics for different types of work and for special cases like orphan works or works that continue to be developed over time, but I would expect a period of no more than 10-20 years from public disclosure should be more than adequate in just about any case today.

    --
    If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    1. Re:It should, but preferably at less than 50 years by chrismcb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/07/31/why-does-amazon-have-more-books-from-the-1880s-than-the-1980s-blame-copyright/ claims there is a SIGNIFICANT drop off of books on amazon after about 20 years. So it appears that something in the range of 25 years (at least for books) is a fine length of time. I don't see why that wouldn't work for any other medium.
      Any period of time that is longer than the average lifetime of a human, isn't really limited.

    2. Re:It should, but preferably at less than 50 years by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Your numbers sound reasonable, but to me they suggest something more like an upper bound on how long protection should last, not necessarily a target.

      I believe copyright is best treated as a purely economic tool; it may have some desirable side-effects like giving credit to artists or maintaining confidentiality, but these are usually better treated as separate issues IMHO. On that basis, the job of copyright is to provide sufficient economic support to allow reasonable financial returns to be generated from creating and distributing useful works.

      So, if a AAA console game has made 90% of the revenues it will ever generate today after the first few weeks, or a Hollywood blockbuster makes 90% of its revenues within a couple of years because that's when cinema showings, DVD releases and first runs on broadcast TV happen, then a period of perhaps five years from first public performance might be sufficient.

      On the other hand, something like a school textbook can be very labour intensive to produce in good quality, but might bring in substantial revenues over several years if it can be adapted to produce slightly modified editions suitable for different national markets, not all of them necessarily available immediately in the first year of publication. A period as short as five years might cause a sharp reduction in returns in this case, potentially meaning it's no longer worth putting in the effort to produce a good textbook and corners get cut instead. This clearly isn't a desirable outcome if our goal is to promote the creation and distribution of good quality works, so maybe longer protection is needed in such cases to maintain sufficient incentive.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
  7. Re:Suggestion: the EU should harmonize copyright t by tlambert · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So suggest that the EU should harmonize their nations' laws by using the 50 year TRIPS limit. The EU can do with without renegotiating any external treaties. Few works over 50 years old generate significant revenues, and longer terms just keep many works orphaned and forgotten, rather than in the public domain.

    This is an OK suggestion, with the caveat that the TRIPS limit should be a limit cap, not the actual limit, since the effect of setting it to the TRIPS limit would be immediate and incessant lobbying to raise the TRIPS limit. This is a likely outcome of setting the TRIPS limit as a cap as well, but then there would be no obligation on the part of the EU to raise their limit, should such lobbying be successful.

    Assuming this is done, there should also be a proviso that, should the TRIPS limit be lowered, that the EU limits are also automatically lowered, while any raises in the limit should require explicit EU legislation to match. So if the EU "harmonizes" to 50 years to equal the TRIPS limit, then the TRIPS limit goes down to 40 years, the EU automatically goes down to 40 years, and if the TRIPS limit is then jacked back up to 50 years or higher, the EU remains at 40 years, low watermarking the EU limit.

    This would set a de-facto worldwide standard of 50 years. The US, with its much longer terms, would then be the major exception, and would be under pressure to reduce its copyright term.

    This is highly unlikely; the two California Senators with the most power in regard to U.S. Copyright law are strongly incentivized through campaign contributions from the movie industry bodies (MPAA, et. al.), and, to a lesser extent, since it is less localized to California, the music industry.

    In other words, there would be about as much pressure on the U.S. to lower its limits as there is for Disney to put Mickey Mouse in the public domain, and about as much as there is on the current WIPO to lower the TRIPS limits -- which is to say "effectively none".

  8. Please add these provisos by tlambert · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Please add these provisos:

    (1) If a work is explicitly placed into the public domain, then it receives indemnity protection equivalent to that provided by the BSD two clause license, so that authors are not *required* to keep a work out of the public domain and place a license on it in order to obtain a legal "hold harmless". Most BSD licensed software, for example, would have been placed in the public domain, rather than licensed at all, if it were not for the need for the author to disclaim legal liability.

    (2) If a work is placed in the public domain, it shall not be legal to place it under other terms; it remains in the public domain in perpetuity. You can't just take a public domain work and slap a license or DRM on it; for example, a book placed in the public domain can not be converted to a DRM protected eBook format which would prevent further dissemination of the work (e.g. no grabbing Joseph Conrad from Project Gutenberg and making it non-redistributable).

  9. Re:Suggestion: the EU should harmonize copyright t by maswan · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe. On the other hand, 10 year terms means no movie company ever has to pay the author of a book for making the movie out of a book, or adher to the authors wishes. Just wait the years out.