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Supreme Court To Hear Aereo Case

schwit1 writes "The Supreme Court will hear broadcasters' challenge to the legality of startup Aereo, in a case that may not only determine the future of digital streaming of station signals but of network television itself. Without comment, the justices on Friday agreed to accept ABC Television Stations vs. Aereo, in which the television networks are seeking to halt the Barry Diller-backed venture, contending that its offering of streams of station signals in New York and other markets violates the public performance provisions of the Copyright Act. Justice Samuel Alito took no part in the consideration of the petition, the court said, without elaborating. Typically such recusals are for a potential conflict of interest, and Alito has previously said that his family owned stock in the Walt Disney Co."

44 of 211 comments (clear)

  1. I'm torn... by mythosaz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...and I'm sure my opinion will be torn to shreds for it.

    I firmly believe that what Aereo does is, strictly speaking, legal, but hardly fair play.

    Broadcast television got a pretty sweetheart deal: All of this spectrum is yours, just give us a little public interest news every day. The TV broadcasters use their ownership of the airwaves to produce content that'll get us to watch their sponsor's commercials.

    While there are obviously other ways to time and location-shift television, Aereo is essentially a leech on the system. They give nothing back to the content producers. It's hard to root for them unless your only goal is the collapse of broadcast television.

    1. Re:I'm torn... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Aereo is essentially a leech on the system. They give nothing back to the content producers.

      Aren't they expanding the number of folks that have access to that content, and hence, the commercials?

    2. Re:I'm torn... by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      It's hard to root for them unless your only goal is the collapse of broadcast television.

      Broadcasters seem to be doing a good enough job on their own with that, considering the amount of crap and Reality TV programming that they're running with these days. I had a fine chance to look at said broadcasters after a 8 year hiatus, and I'm pretty sure everything except for a couple of drama's, was reality tv, including on the specialty channels like discovery, mil-tv, and tlc.

      --
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    3. Re:I'm torn... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Then again, if I understand the situation correctly the broadcasters aren't really losing anything. Broadcast TV gets its revenues through advertisements, there is no revenue flowing from the delivery of the product. In a way, broadcasters should be grateful that someone is helping them show their ads to even more people without costing them a dime. If they could figure out a way to get viewing figures from Aereo as a form of compensation, to bring to their advertisers as a basis for negotiating rates, they could have the cake and eat it too. If Aereo on the other hand was recording the broadcasts, stripping out the advertisements, and then streaming it on to consumers, that would be a whole other situation.

    4. Re:I'm torn... by ebno-10db · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Aereo is essentially a leech on the system

      How? Broadcasting over the air is a way of distributing content. Aereo does exactly the same thing. Think of it as a repeater for the broadcast signals. The broadcasters should be happy that another party is helping to distribute their content. The broadcasters get paid via advertising revenues, which are proportional to the number of viewers. Why should they object to more viewers?

    5. Re:I'm torn... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Broadcast television got a pretty sweetheart deal: All of this spectrum is yours, just give us a little public interest news every day.

      And that's why it's so easy to root for Aereo: Broadcast television got an absurdly sweet deal (one that, given the absolute shit that passes for 'news' they arguably aren't even honoring) on a very nice chunk of RF. Time for them to move.

      If 'broadcasting' over the internet is sufficiently lucrative that Aereo (a 3rd party that has to run a silly teeny-antenna farm for legal reasons) can make money, they can cut out the middleman and do that instead. But if they want to keep acting like a very nice chunk of the airwaves was just handed to them by god for their convenience, fuck 'em. I'll cheer Aereo every step of the way if they do, in fact, cause one or more of the broadcasters to follow through on their threat to take their ball and go cable only.

      (That said, I'm not actually sure that I believe your argument: Yes, Aereo doesn't provide anything back to the content producers; but neither does putting an antenna on my roof. And yet, sending free signals laced with ads to people with antennas turns out to be a functioning business model. Aereo doesn't actually detract from that, indeed, they increase the number of viewers within range of the signal, at no additional cost to the broadcaster. If they do have a financial effect, it's purely on the assorted shakedowns that govern the 'Must-carry' rules on cable outfits, another absurdly sweetheart deal given to the broadcasters for, um, reasons. Or something.)

    6. Re:I'm torn... by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I firmly believe that what Aereo does is, strictly speaking, legal, but hardly fair play.

      That's the best kind of legal.

    7. Re:I'm torn... by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They shouldn't. Except...

      First issue is that those viewers are time-shifting. The broadcasters hate that because some of their advertisers want the ads to be seen at that time. The great example being Thursday night, when the movie studios want to advertise movies opening that weekend. It doesn't do them as much good if I'm watching commercials meant for Thursday night on the next Monday or I'm watching Monday programming on Thursdays. Why should I, as an advertiser, pay extra for a Thursday night ad when there's no guarantee that the perspective customer will see it on Thursday night?

      Second issue is that those viewers are not being measured. Broadcast television is seeing it's viewership decline as people go do other things--including watching the programs that broadcasters are showing via other means. Remember that ad rates are set by how many people are measured watching the show. No measurement and you have no idea how many people are watching and, therefore, no clue as to how to set the ad rates.

    8. Re:I'm torn... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your opinion shouldn't be 'torn to shreds', your welcome to your opinion, people simply might disagree with it. Specifically what exactly is Aereo doing that I can't do myself? I have an antenna at home able to tune in OTA content, I have a DVR attached to it from which I can record the station of my choice & then 'stream' it anywhere I want to on any device I want. It's 'black letter law' that I have the right to do this. To receive & record all the OTA stations available to me at once I need as many antennas as there are available stations but only 1 DVR & there's certainly no legal limitation on the number of antennas I can have. Now, what if a company sold me a device that had multiple antennas, receivers & 1 DVR that was located in my house from which I streamed the content? Now what if instead of selling it to me they rented it to me? Now just move those devices to a central location and you have Aereo's business model.

      Aereo is simply providing the infrastructure to do this in 1 location, they are 'renting' out the infrastructure that every user would otherwise have to buy and install at home, they are clearly NOT charging their users for content, they are charging for the infrastructure. In the process more users have access to the content, more eyeballs on the commercials, and thus the broadcasters in theory should be able to charge more for the commercials & this 'free content' that they are providing using the 'free (monopoly) spectrum' they were granted by the government.

      Sorry, Aereo is not leaching off of anyone, as always the Broadcasters missed an opportunity that was obvious to someone else with the technical know how & backing to do it & now they are scared of this somehow ruining their 'business model', the Broadcasters don't have a right over how I watch the content delivered OTA I hope the SC puts the smack down on them, it will be good for their ego.

    9. Re:I'm torn... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      NO! And that's where you're missing the important point, Aereo's business model is 'rent antenna's, a DVR & bandwidth to allow a user to stream content they want from the available OTA signal anywhere the user wants'...Aereo's users are NOT paying for streaming NBC, CBS, ABC etc., if they were then indeed Aereo's business model would be copyright infringement. Consider that for it to be the case that Aereo were charging for 'streaming NBC over the internet' then all they'd ever need is to record 1 copy of the show for themselves, then make that available to all their users that is explicitly not what they do, every user is recording & streaming the particular station they want to watch, again they are renting the infrastructure not paying for the content.

    10. Re:I'm torn... by paiute · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Aereo is essentially a leech on the system. They give nothing back to the content producers.

      Aren't they expanding the number of folks that have access to that content, and hence, the commercials?

      I use Aereo to watch football games while cooking. I see all the TV ads. Otherwise I would listen to it on the radio and hear the radio ads. Is that what the TV network wants?

      --
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    11. Re:I'm torn... by Artifakt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      First issue is that those viewers are time-shifting. The broadcasters hate that because some of their advertisers want the ads to be seen at that time.

      The broadcasters will only "hate"* it if the advertisers stop paying as much. Are there advertisers who think Aereo is reducing the number of viewers who see the ads at the 'right' time? Do they think that reduction is greater than the gain for having their name and product come to more people's attention at all? Can the broadcasters show where this has come up in negotiating prices? I ask, because the broadcasters don't seem to be using that as part of their case. If they have specific cash amounts they could point to, that's actual damages, and so far, the case seems to be about potential or statutory damages instead. Showing where a given advertiser has offered less because the time shifting makes that timeslot less valuable would be refreshing, as it would let the broadcasters claim damages based on a simple straight-forward calculation that wouldn't look like Hollywood accounting gone mad.

      * Hopefully, the broadcasters aren't sueing because they 'hate' anybody - lawsuits are supposed to be about making financial matters straight. Responsible adults don't sue becasue they hate someone and want to do whatever kind of damage they can to them, but to make the bottom line come out right. A civil trial is deliberately supposed to be an extraordinarily poor substitute for ripping someone's jugular out.

      --
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    12. Re:I'm torn... by evilviper · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I firmly believe that what Aereo does is, strictly speaking, legal, but hardly fair play.

      What the broadcasters do is quite unfair, but technically legal as well.

      Aereo is essentially a leech on the system. They give nothing back to the content producers.

      They delivery YOUR eyeballs to the networks and their advertisers. You might go watch YouTube instead, if Aereo didn't exist.

      What broadcasters are worried about is cable retransmission fees, which has nothing to do with Aereo. Viacom wants to keep your cable company paying obscene amounts of money for channels like Nickelodeon and MTV, and threaten to pull their local CBS channel if they don't agree. Broadcast television was never supposed to work that way. Aereo is breaking that model.

      I consider Aereo a valuable service for people like me who are out in the fringes... If I spend $200 on an antenna system, I can get most, but not all, of my local channels, with minor breakups. That same money will pay for Aereo for quite a while. It can also save me from buying a DVR as well, though I must admit, those are getting dirt cheap, these days.

      And while I can make an antenna work over time, renters without dedicated private roof space (see: FCC) may not be in a position to do so in any case. Those same renters may also not be in a position where they can get satellite service, either. Then it's just a question of being at the mercy of the local cable company, or not having TV, without Aereo.

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    13. Re:I'm torn... by evilviper · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Unless viewed in the broadcast area, the value of those commercials is Nil, and the network no longer gets paid proportionally to the number of actual viewers, only to the number of viewers within the area

      Aereo has gone to great lengths to ensure that nobody outside the broadcast footprint can access the content through Aereo. So your point is entirely moot.

      --
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    14. Re:I'm torn... by Hamsterdan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why? I'm running OTA on Media Center and can stream to other devices. The broadcasters just have to adapt to modern times. In fact, most of the times I'm watching TV on my computer either from its tuner or by streaming from Media Center. My 60$ ATSC tuner can record to a USB key. In a format that is readable by a computer, my mom's TV, and such.

       

      --
      I've got better things to do tonight than die.
    15. Re:I'm torn... by Hamsterdan · · Score: 2

      *as another poster mentioned, traditional methods for rating TV stations won't track what Aereo users are watching*

      Then time to change how they get their stats.

      --
      I've got better things to do tonight than die.
    16. Re:I'm torn... by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uhh...its the broadcasters themselves that are screwing things up frankly. I mean there is ZERO reason why in 2014 that I shouldn't be able to just go to a webpage and watch my local TV stations, which just FYI I currently can't watch at all because the only way to get a signal here is to get the super to crawl on the roof and set up an antenna and he's backed up a good half a year, but instead they not only don't let the local stations simply stream the same broadcast they are currently showing on the web but thanks to their butt kissing the cablecos you can't even go to the network website and watch same day. meanwhile I can just pirate it and have it commercial free less than 2 hours after broadcast...now which do you think I'm gonna choose?

      If they don't get on the damned ball soon there won't be anybody to watch their shit anyway...you talk to the young folks lately? In my shop I talk to young folks every day and I can't remember the last time I talked to a person under 30 that even watched TV, they have all gone to the net and aren't gonna be tethered to some TV at 9,8 central just to watch a damned show. If they don't make things Aereo easy when the current gen dies off its gonna be AM radio, a niche so tiny nobody gives a shit.

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    17. Re:I'm torn... by mysidia · · Score: 4, Informative

      They are no more leeches than Cable companies and other rebroadcasters and bundlers.

      My guess would be that the net number of viewers of OTA television drop as a result of Aereo

      Since each of their customers are renting a physical antenna from Aereo Each viewer is an OTA viewer: the OTA signal is received by the physical antenna they are renting, and then encapsulated for streaming over the internet.

      There is no additional cost for the OTA broadcaster --- in fact, at some point, if all the OTA viewers are using Aereo, then the broadcaster could probably make a deal with Aereo to streamline their delivery, and reduce the number of kilowatts they need.

      Since Aereo is playing TV unmodified --- the viewers do see all the ads

      Since Aereo are only allowing viewers to join who are in the area of their antennas, and they restrict access based on IP addresses that geolocate to the broadcast area, they are not providing out-of-area viewers access to content.

    18. Re:I'm torn... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2

      The broadcasters get paid via advertising revenues, which are proportional to the number of viewers. Why should they object to more viewers?

      The reason they're upset with Aereo is that cable TV companies pay broadcasters in order to carry the broadcast channels over cable. Alternatively, the broadcasters can compel the cable companies to carry the broadcast channels, but then they can't charge for them.

      If the Aereo model is legal, it's pretty likely that the cable TV companies will all stop paying broadcasters and will just use antenna farms, like Aereo does. This will seriously reduce the profits of broadcasters more than any additional viewership being advertised to will make up for.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    19. Re:I'm torn... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just to clarify, Aereo's service has been found not to be illegal by federal trial and appellate courts. However, rival services that are claimed to operate similarly have lost court cases in other jurisdictions; the circuit split is part of the justification for cert.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    20. Re:I'm torn... by mysidia · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't see how Aereo is any different than those cable providers who just were retransmitting from an antenna, and those cable providers have to ask permission.

      A few years ago, there was a precedent set by Cablevision that no retransmission consent required For a customer that rents an antenna.

      In ABC's petition. They take issue with the fact, that Aereo is using a massive number of tiny coin-cell sized very inexpensive antennas mounted on a PCB

      Each customer gets an antenna, but they are dynamically assigned. Also, each customer's stream gets transcoded and saved to a customer-specific directory on shared hard drives.

      So at some point the customer's stuff is getting blended in some sense; the customer isn't renting 100% of the delivery infrastructure, only the antenna and some disk space used to receive their content.

      One of the arguments before the court is their system is engineered as a Rube Goldberg-like contrivance whose sole purpose is to attempt to circumvent the intent of Congress and the copyright law; in regards to, the requirement for consent to retransmission, AND the exclusive rights to public performance.

    21. Re:I'm torn... by beanpoppa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's basically Tivo, in the cloud. I could put a Tivo box in my house, hooked up to my antenna, and play Tivo $13/mo and watch/time-shift broadcast TV. Or, I can pay Aereo $8/mo for their DVR in the cloud, and do the same exact thing. What's the difference if the DVR is in my house, or remote? The difference with Aereo is that when I am away from my house, I can still watch my DVR. If Tivo+Slingbox is legal (which the courts have said is) then Aereo should be legal.

    22. Re:I'm torn... by davester666 · · Score: 2

      1. They explicitly don't permit location shifting, and are actively preventing users from doing so.
      2. The DVR doesn't automatically remove commercials, the user has to actively fast-forward past them, which is exactly the same as if the user taped it on a VCR and fast-forwarded through them [might be SLIGHTLY easier, but not different].

      It is EXACTLY parallel to the user putting up an antennae and hooking up a VCR in their home.

      --
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    23. Re:I'm torn... by slimjim8094 · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's basically my point - the jurisprudence is this absurd mess because the law doesn't make much sense.

      I had this long paragraph that I elided because it was boring, but the gist of it was: Let's say you put an antenna on your roof - fine. What if you have land at the top of the hill that's blocking your reception, and you put the antenna there and run a cable down? Fine as well. What if you and your neighbor split the cost of a better antenna, and you run the cable to both houses? What if a whole block does this? What if you make people pay a subscription for the upkeep of this mess of coax?

      Eventually the line is crossed and it becomes illegal, but there's no obvious place to put that line. One answer is "when there's profit", but there's no legal basis for that since nothing they're doing is illegal in the absence of the Cable Act, which doesn't seem to have anything to do with profits (IANAL, of course).

      You (and me and the judges so far) have this mental model of people having antennas on their roofs, which is clearly OK. The law is clear that cable companies have to get permission, but the law isn't particularly good at excluding the other cases. Check out the definitions from the 1982 law, which are reused in the 1992 law - it looks like if you set up an antenna for 2 single-occupant houses (there is an exclusion only for MDUs), you'd have a 'cable system' and therefore be a 'cable operator'. The ruling will probably hinge on fairly boring and narrow interpretations of those terms - namely, is Aereo a cable system as defined (intentionally vaguely) by the law? Because if they are, it's clear that they are subject to the retransmission consent rule.

      Also, CBS can kiss my ass. They're pretty much the only ones trying to push this crap.

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    24. Re:I'm torn... by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 2

      First issue is that those viewers are time-shifting. The broadcasters hate that ...

      Tough. The Supreme Court has already said that viewers have a right to time-shift, whether the broadcasters like it or not, in the context of recording of over-the-air signals directly received by the viewers. They're just re-fighting that battle because the context is enough different that they get another at-bat.

      Second issue is that those viewers are not being measured. ... Remember that ad rates are set by how many people are measured watching the show.

      And that's a matter between the advertisers and the rating services.

      There's an easy solution: Aereo has ACCURATE data on EXACTLY how many clients are receiving the signals and where they're located. Potentially the ratings services - or the advertisers - could cut a deal with them to buy suitably aggregated and anonymized data to include these viewers in their counts.

      That they haven't already done so says to me they're just being cheap and shafting the broadcasters by undercounting the viewers. Seems to me that's cause for action between the broadcasters and the rating services, but NOT between the broadcasters and Aereo (unless Aereo has been stonewalling or trying to gouge the rating services.)

      --
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    25. Re:I'm torn... by Chibi+Merrow · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Look up the Cablevision decision, where the supreme court ruled such a remote DVR service was legal. Then think about what you said.

      Aereo was designed specifically with obeying the letter of the law as set by Cablevision.

      --
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      Increases in truth directly with the length of time spent explaining them
  2. The way they play the "copyright" card by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Aereo is an online streaming service - among its offering, it enables people who stay very far away from NYC (for example, Sydney Australia) to watch TV stations from NYC.

    The argument from the teevee stations is that by allowing the streaming of their broadcast content, Aereo is violating the "copyright".

    I dunno about you, but I find this argument utterly preposterous !

    Legally speaking, true, the way the copyright laws has been stipulated by those "legal experts" is that a copy of whatever copyrighted content (be it sound, image, book, or the combination of any form) can only be used one time, in one place.

    But c'mon !

    People living in Sydney Australia don't get to watch teevee station beaming from NYC anyway - and by allowing them to watch it via online streaming, how the fuck this going to make the NYC teevee station losing money ?

    --
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    1. Re:The way they play the "copyright" card by tlambert · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Aereo is an online streaming service - among its offering, it enables people who stay very far away from NYC (for example, Sydney Australia) to watch TV stations from NYC.

      The argument from the teevee stations is that by allowing the streaming of their broadcast content, Aereo is violating the "copyright".

      I dunno about you, but I find this argument utterly preposterous !

      Legally speaking, true, the way the copyright laws has been stipulated by those "legal experts" is that a copy of whatever copyrighted content (be it sound, image, book, or the combination of any form) can only be used one time, in one place.

      Aero addresses this the same way Slingbox does. They argue that by having one physical receiver per active subscribed user, that they are not in violation; this is the same way it would work if you had a Slingbox at home in your NYC apartment, and were traveling in another country. The major difference is that advertisers that you see for NY products on your Slingbox have a reasonable expectation that you will be returning to the regional purchase market where your Slingbox is located at some point in the future, after your trip is over, while there's no similar expectation that you'll go to the roof where the Aereo receivers are located at some point, and then proceed to "buy local".

      But c'mon !

      People living in Sydney Australia don't get to watch teevee station beaming from NYC anyway - and by allowing them to watch it via online streaming, how the fuck this going to make the NYC teevee station losing money ?

      ABC objects to this because they license content, and make money on commercials.

      Commercials tend to be related to a regional market (i.e. you are unlikely to have a Big-O tires or Chick-fil-A or Trader Joe's or other locale centric food chain specific to the U.S. in Australia). Because of this, advertisers in the NY market don't see any benefit to ABC stations streamed outside the NY market, since they aren't applicable in remote markets; the thing that bothers ABC about this is ads tend to get paid by region, an by Nielsen ratings for the broadcast station within the region. So they don't get a higher income for their licensed content for their franchisees.

      Assuming they could get franchisees in the local markets in Australia to pick up and license ABC programming, then there would be advertising for the local market in the broadcast area, and they'd see income for those programs within that region.

      So Aereo breaks their regional marketing models by moving content + advertisements. This also devalues their properties, unless they agree to simultaneous release in various regions, and it erodes their leverage position of getting a franchisee in another region where there is no franchisee, because they are unable to hold them hostage to in demand content, which would (effectively) blackmail the local stations into taking a full content package, rather than one or two programs, and would cause income sharing for regional advertising back to the parent network (ABC).

      This effect is, incidentally, the same reason that various networks have been going after cable and dish networks to get a larger programming package payout (with the exception that the cable and dish networks do regional advertising substitution on the fly into program packages, rather than taking all the advertising from the network). This was the basis of the CBS (network)/Time Warner (cable provider) dispute last year: http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/09/02/cbs-time-warner-resolve-dispute/

      If Aereo wins, the networks are going to need to revise their business model, so the most likely outcome is actually that there will be a loss for Aero, with a time period for them and the networks to agree to an implementation of a fetch-model for advertising, at which point Aero doesn't end up actually losing, and the network gets part of

    2. Re:The way they play the "copyright" card by Skraut · · Score: 4, Informative

      My impression was that you had to be in the broadcast area for a TV station to be able to get it from Aereo. You con't just decide you wanted stations from across the country. This is what keeps them from just being a TV streaming service, they're literally just rebroadcasting it to people who could under normal circumstances already get the content, and making it more convenient.

      My parents live about 50 miles from a relatively large city where Aereo is "Coming soon" and apparently waiting for these legal issues to be resolved before they go live there. They used to have a 65 ft tower and a powered antenna in order to be able to receive over the air channels. In the past 20 years they've switched to cable, and the tower rusted and fell down. Now that they're looking to cut the cable, Aereo looks like a very attractive option for them since it would save the cost of setting up another antenna tower. The only reason they want the local channel is to see their nightly news.

      --
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    3. Re: The way they play the "copyright" card by alen · · Score: 2

      So it would be no problem for the courts to rule that they should lock out customers in a market that want to watch tv in that market

    4. Re:The way they play the "copyright" card by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I just looked at the Aereo website, and it appears that they are actually restricting the service to users who live in the same metro area as the Aereo antenna farm in question. If things are as they seem, it impossible for people in Australia to register for Aereo, and the local ads remain relevant.

    5. Re:The way they play the "copyright" card by Enry · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ABC objects to this because they license content, and make money on commercials.

      ABC's inability to make a buck off that is not my problem, nor should it rise to the level of copyright infringement.

    6. Re:The way they play the "copyright" card by OrtCloud · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not sure where you're getting your information, but I'm an Aereo subscriber in Houston - The people living in Sidney Australia can't watch Aereo USA - you have to live in Houston to receive Houston stations - I can't watch stations in L.A., New York, Chicago, etc,... - only Houston (they check zip codes & monitor IP addresses)

    7. Re:The way they play the "copyright" card by poetmatt · · Score: 3, Informative

      There's nothing to "steal":

      it's a digital product and it's also a public broadcast. This would be like saying I'm stealing from slashdot by posting the slashdot logo somewhere else. Give me a fucking break with your leap of logic.

    8. Re:The way they play the "copyright" card by nospam007 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "The major difference is that advertisers that you see for NY products on your Slingbox have a reasonable expectation that you will be returning ..."

      Just like printer manufacturers have apparently a reasonable expectation that you will buy cartridges from them for their printers that they sell below a reasonable price, or games for your Xbox or...

      The customers are not responsible for the unreasonable expectations of somebody's business plan.

  3. I use Aereo, it's great by djhertz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I live within the broadcast range of Boston but due to a hill I'm on (and weather) I only get one or two channels at best. I like to watch American football and having the signal drop in the middle of a play just stinks. Aereo allows me to watch (and pause/record) shows I would normally get fed up with and just not watch. It's a great service to mesh with Netflix/Amazon Streaming/etc. since you get sports and live news. We really like it.

    As to why the broadcasters are against Aereo I guess there could be concern about timeshifting, etc. But if I did get solid reception OTA I could just use any DVR to do pause and recording, or even a VCR (ok not a VCR, no TV is worth using one of those again).

    Overall I see Aereo, Netflix, etc. as the future. Much like mp3s and digital streaming are the media for music. It would probably be best for the broadcasters to try and figure out how to best make it all work. I still don't understand why a broadcaster would not want Aereo to 'repeat' their signal, w/o it I would not be able to watch the shows, hence not view the commercials.

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    Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise - William Shakespeare
  4. ABC has a good shot, but Aereo should win by American+Patent+Guy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ABC does not own the content that it broadcasts: it licenses it from the original authors/producers. That license permits it to distribute the content over the airwaves with the payment of a fee.

    Think about it this way. Suppose I wrote a play. I would have both (1) a right to prevent others from copying my written work (the script) and (2) a right to prevent others from performing that play if they got a copy of the script. If I permit a playhouse to perform the play, that playhouse can limit the viewing of the licensed performance to those inside the building. Here, ABC is broadcasting its content to the public: it's like a playhouse that has no walls that anyone from the street can enjoy. The playhouse's recourse is to perform the play inside an enclosed building, and ABC's recourse is arguably to distribute its content to those under contract, which it cannot do over the public airwaves.

    Now, if ABC owns the original rights in what it broadcasts, the story is different. In that case it can sue as the holder as the copyright, rather than the holder of merely a license. Even then, arguably ABC has granted everyone with access to broadcasted content an implied license to view it, and forward the content to another location as apparently Aereo does. What Aereo would then be doing is merely a "fair use" of that broadcasted content, which is specifically permitted by the copyright statutes.

  5. All about the money... by EvilSS · · Score: 4, Interesting

    These lawsuits against Aereo are about money, and really not even about getting money from Aereo but from cable operators. Networks and their affiliate stations pull in huge amounts of cash from rebroadcast deals. The Aereo model threatens to cut that cash flow off. Several cable companies are already looking to copy Aereo and do a one-antenna-per-customer model to provide local stations, and avoid paying carriage fees. That's billions of dollars the networks could lose. That is why they want to kill this model dead and quickly.

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  6. Actually, it's hilarious by real+gumby · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you read the plaintiff's pleading before the court (quoted here):

    The decision below has far-reaching adverse consequences for the broadcast television industry, making the need for this Court’s review urgent and acute. The decision already is having a transformative effect on the industry. Industry participants will not and cannot afford to wait for something of this magnitude to percolate before responding to new business realities. And once Aereo’s technology is entrenched and the industry has restructured itself in response, a ruling by this Court in Petitioners’ favor will come too late. The disruption threatened by Aereo will produce changes that will be difficult, if not impossible, to reverse.

    They are explicitly saying "our business is changing and we want the courts to stop things because creative destruction is unfair." They are not even pretending that they are trying to do something in the public's interest; they are nakedly asking the court to save the entrenched interest. Pathetic assholes.

  7. Re:what's the point? by FreeFire · · Score: 2

    The point is that not everyone in the viewing area can put up an antenna and get decent reception.

  8. Fin-syn is dead by tepples · · Score: 2

    ABC does not own the content that it broadcasts: it licenses it from the original authors/producers.

    Come again? The rule requiring broadcast networks to license all prime-time programming from third parties was abolished two decades ago.

    Now, if ABC owns the original rights in what it broadcasts, the story is different. In that case it can sue as the holder as the copyright, rather than the holder of merely a license.

    In practice, as I understand it, the exclusive licensee of a work in a particular market has remedies under the law very close to those of the owner of copyright.

  9. The 2nd Circuit's ruling by NewYorkCountryLawyer · · Score: 2

    Here's my report on the actual ruling which is being reviewed: 2nd Circuit affirms denial of plaintiffs' preliminary injunction motion in WNET v Aereo

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    Ray Beckerman +5 Insightful
  10. Re:what's the point? by Arker · · Score: 2

    Convenience. You can do it all yourself (and maintain it) or you can pay someone that does it in bulk a small fee to do it for you, and since they have economy of scale they can keep costs low enough to make it attractive as a convenience.

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  11. This isn't about advertising. by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2

    The thing is, broadcasters aren't bringing this case over lost advertising revenue. And they're not bringing it over increasing the size of the broadcast area.

    They're bringing this case because if Aereo-like services lets people access the broadcasts within the broadcast area in more convenient ways, that means the broadcasters can't make as much money from selling more-convenient access to their content (e.g. by charging cable-TV retransmission fees, or making a deal with Time-Warner Cable to let subscribers visit special subscriber-only webpages or install subscriber-only apps to stream content).

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    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.