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India Frees Itself of Polio

An anonymous reader writes "It's been three years since the last recorded polio case in India and health officials hope to officially certify India polio free in the next few weeks. 'Hamid Jafari, director of the WHO's polio-eradication campaign, says the agency's ambitious quest to stop all polio transmission by the end of 2014 is now within reach. If that is achieved, and no new cases crop up for three years, polio—like smallpox—will be officially banished from the planet. "India was one of the most important sources" from where the virus spread to other countries, said Dr. Jafari.'"

71 of 309 comments (clear)

  1. Excellent! by jones_supa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These are fantastic news!

    1. Re:Excellent! by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 4, Funny

      All it took was a single country to do the needful.

    2. Re: Excellent! by masikh3193 · · Score: 2

      The story said polio is redicated from our planet (not in those words but something along those lines) Pakistan is a country on planet earth thus my comment. You are right, Pakistan is not India, they are two different countries who happen to be at war with each other. This is btw the main reason (sadly enough) for the recent outbreak of polio in Pakistan. Ironic isn't it! Kind regards, Masikh

    3. Re:Excellent! by rmstar · · Score: 2

      These are fantastic news!

      Indeed. And it wasn't the free market that did it. Go figure.

    4. Re:Excellent! by the+gnat · · Score: 2

      I find humanity's ability to eradicate previously deadly and epidemic diseases to be something to wonder at. Personally I rate this little wonder of the world higher than the Moon landing.

      Seconded! The elimination of smallpox is probably the single greatest triumph of modern medicine; in the 20th century alone, it saved more lives than were lost in every war put together. And contrary to the claims of the racist naysayers who think we should have left epidemics alone so they could control third-world populations, people actually have fewer children when they're not worried about an appallingly high infant mortality rate.

  2. But vaccinations give you autism by Swampash · · Score: 5, Funny

    Jenny McCarthy wouldn't lie to me!

    1. Re:But vaccinations give you autism by davester666 · · Score: 2

      they gave her brain damage and swollen breasts.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    2. Re:But vaccinations give you autism by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      Jenny McCarthy says vaccines put dangerous toxins in your body. Obviously, you don't want "dangerous toxins" even if it would protect you from horrible diseases. Now, if you'll excuse her, she needs to go get an injection of botox to prevent some wrinkles.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  3. it'll be back by bloodhawk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Given the epidemic of stupid parents that refuse to immunise children nowadays it should not be long till many of the old virus's and diseases rear their ugly heads again.

    1. Re:it'll be back by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Given the epidemic of stupid parents that refuse to immunise children nowadays it should not be long till many of the old virus's and diseases rear their ugly heads again.

      I wouldn't call this 'good' news; but polio is sufficiently unpleasant to send your basic chickenshit first world antivaxxer running screaming to the nearest vaccination location (for most childhood diseases for which vaccines are available, you aren't helping your odds by playing at anti-vax; the serious disease effects are still somewhat more common than the vaccine side effects; but polio is a genuinely nasty customer).

      Thankfully it has no animal vectors (of any note in the wild, I'm sure you can buy a mouse model or something that is susceptible in the lab) so it mostly hangs out in areas so remote or underdeveloped that sheer logistical difficulty keeps vaccination efforts sporadic.

      The one nasty anti-vax angle with polio is, I'm ashamed to say, pretty much our fault: The CIA came up with a clever ruse to do some DNA gathering under the guise of a vaccination program (one for hepatitis B), and the subsequent revelation of this fact has not done much to quell the 'zOMG vaccines are a western and/or zionist conspiracy against muslims!!!' rumor mongering present in certain areas.

    2. Re:it'll be back by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The old terrors of disease have been eradicated in developed countries for so long that even the cultural memory is fading. People do not fear a disease they know absolutely nothing of.

      Just ask people what the symptoms of cholora are. Most of them probably don't know, and that's still endemic in parts of the world.

    3. Re:it'll be back by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The CIA came up with a clever ruse

      The CIA endangers everybody on the planet with their little game(s) - 'clever' could only be applied superficially.

      --
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    4. Re:it'll be back by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hoped that the context of my being ashamed to mention it made it clear how much I didn't approve of putting infectious disease control in the line of fire.

      I'd say, though, that you might be more accurate to say that it's a myopically clever plan, rather than a superficially clever one. Within the narrow, barely relevant, context of 'so, we need a DNA sample from a well guarded private compound in a country where most of the locals hate our guts and going through the official channels would mean somebody tipping off our suspect within hours, any ideas?' A fake vaccination program is among the better available answers.

      In the broader context of the fact that there's never been a man alive nearly as dangerous as some second rate infectious diseases, it's about the dumbest answer imaginable. (Extra demerits awarded for hampering control of polio, which is right on the edge of being finally eradicated, and for doing so in a region where any remaining infections are atypically likely to spread via the more downmarket Hajj trips to assorted other areas where vaccination programs are nontrivial).

      Somehow, none of this is terribly out of character for the CIA, unfortunately.

    5. Re:it'll be back by stoploss · · Score: 2

      Smallpox has been absent since the 70's, and hasn't show up yet... So if the premise is the same with polio, yes we can say that it is extinct... I think.

      I think it only exists in one CDC facility and one research / germ warfare facility in siberia, now.

      Meh. I'm sure it exists in other places as well. For example, the sequence for smallpox is well-known, so it could be reconstructed by a government even if those samples were destroyed. Furthermore, there's always the random serendipity of as-yet undiscovered samples:
      Century-old smallpox scabs in N.M. envelope (found in a library, of all places...)

      However, I concur that the disease is extinct in the wild, and, barring malfeasance, there will never be another epidemic of smallpox.

    6. Re:it'll be back by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is definitely the biggest problem with vaccines. Their very success is their biggest weakness. As people don't personally remember diseases like measles, mumps, whooping cough, etc, they mentally minimize the severity of it. Whooping cough? Sounds like you just have a bad cough for a week or two and then you're fine, right? Then they hear FUD about vaccines that leads to them mentally overestimating the risk of the vaccines. Before you know it you have a person who is thinking of injecting their child with this horrible mix of highly dangerous chemicals just to prevent their child from maybe coughing for a few days. They make the perfectly rational (in their mind, given their flawed assumptions) decision to forego vaccinations.

      Sadly, the people who suffer are children like Dana Elizabeth McCaffery who die because they were too young to get the vaccine or people who have valid medical reasons for not getting the vaccine (immune system issues, allergies, etc). These people rely on the rest of us keeping herd immunity up. As the anti-vax movement grows, herd immunity breaks down and more people will die. The good news is that, as more people die, the anti-vax movement should be self-limiting. Who's going to seriously listen to Jenny McCarthy railing about vaccines if a hundred thousand people come down with measles? The bad news is that many, many people will get sick and either die or suffer permanent injury from vaccine-preventable diseases before this happens.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    7. Re:it'll be back by cusco · · Score: 2

      I've met people dealing with the side effects of the polio they contracted 40+ years ago. There are a LOT more people with post-polio syndrome then there are people who have had deleterious effects from the vaccine, and a lot of them are going to die from PPS.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    8. Re:it'll be back by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      It's not that I don't understand "mainly", but I disagree that most of what modern medicine fixes is due to problems caused by modern life. People have been suffering and dying of illnesses for thousands of years. For most of that time, treating the issues was a little better than a stab in the dark. You could quarantine the diseased but this broke down if the person transmits the disease before showing symptoms.

      Modern medicine allowed us to finally understand why people got sick and how to prevent or (in some cases) cure illnesses. It was modern medicine that said that disease was spread by microorganisms that would be destroyed by sanitation techniques. Before the germ theory, people thought that illness just appeared due to environmental conditions which could be identified by a bad smell. It wasn't thought that disease could pass from person to person. (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miasma_theory ) Under this theory, a surgeon operating on a patient had no need to wash his hands because he wasn't going to make his patient sick from the operation. Once it became accepted that germs (bacteria/viruses) were the cause of most illness, washing hands was accepted, sanitation improved, and disease rates dropped.

      Many diseases today aren't so much caused by modern life as they are problems of people not dying of other causes. People are going to die eventually no matter what medical care they have. If you were to fully cure the top 10 causes of death today, people would begin dying in larger numbers of causes that are much rarer right now. In addition, modern diagnosis lets us pinpoint the cause of the disease more accurately. In the past, people might not have been said to have died of cancer because they either died of something else before cancer claimed them or because the cancer wasn't diagnosed and the cause of death was misattributed to something else.

      Are there problems that modern life has caused? Definitely. Our lifestyle of eating horrible foods and sitting around all day causes many issues. However, going on medical care alone, I'd much rather live in the present day than in any other point in history.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    9. Re:it'll be back by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      There have been some attempts to get medical staff and, where possible, vaccine manufacturing capacity sourced from 'non-western' areas to shut people up (if memory serves, Indonesia has provided a bunch). The trick, unfortunately, is twofold: One, for reasons I don't fully understand, antivaxers gonna antivax, so the goalposts move like they've got legs the world over, more or less regardless of what arguments they find themselves moving between. I have no idea why this is; but you can't reason somebody out of something they didn't reason themselves into, I suppose.

      Secondly, when the CIA did their operation, they didn't send John 'Whitey' Smith, cornfed farmboy from Boise, to go around vaccinating Pakistani children. They did a bit of string-pulling and behind the scenes work and (while in retrospect it was remarked that there were certain organizational irregularities), the entire medical part of the project was done by local medical staff operating without any clue about the real objective of the vaccination drive, or even that there was an objective other than delivering a bunch of hep B vaccines.

      I assume that the Pakistani medical establishment is a touch jumpier about any project that has an odd flavor to it these days; but the CIA-vaccination-conspiracy that actually did happen used local dupes, so local staff only go so far in assuaging concerns.

  4. It is still a tough fight ahead by crabel · · Score: 5, Informative

    Current information on the fight against polio can be found here: http://www.polioeradication.org/Dataandmonitoring/Poliothisweek.aspx While India is polio-free, the worldwide cases actually increased last year. Well, let's hope for the best, that the optimistic assessment of Dr. Jafari is true.

  5. Fantastic by symbolset · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Great job on the part of India, the Gates foundation, and all involved. For polio to be eradicated forever would be a great thing.

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    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:Fantastic by symbolset · · Score: 2

      By all means let us thank the government of India, its politicians, bureaucrats and workers. Also the philanthropists throughout India and around the world. Also the tireless workers, some facing grave danger to bring vaccine to children in cities and remote areas.

      If the world is to enjoy freedom from this vile virus let us not forget to thank the countless mothers who walked for miles and stood online for hours to get their children the vaccine. These are heros to future generations as well.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
  6. Good on them! by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From the Polio Eradication Website:

    Polio remains endemic in three countries – Afghanistan, Nigeria and Pakistan. Until poliovirus transmission is interrupted in these countries, all countries remain at risk of importation of polio, especially in the ‘poliovirus importation belt’ of countries from west Africa to the Horn of Africa.

    Only 372 cases worldwide last year! If we're careful, if we can convince certain political groups that polio is not an appropriate weapon of terrorism(*), we'll soon eliminate it completely.

    Interestingly, polio is monitored from the sewage system in India. Since that appears to work for polio, people are thinking about using this method to monitor other things: other diseases, weapons manufacture, drug manufacture, and so on.

    (*) Not making this up - some groups in Afghanistan think that spreading polio is a good way to get back at the Great Satan.

    1. Re:Good on them! by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Funny

      There's a common rumor in Afganistan that the Polio vaccine is actually a potent lifetime contraceptive, distributed by western powers in order to keep Muslim women from breeding in readyness for a planned Christian invasion.

      The most unbelieveable part of that is the idea of a government planning so far ahead.

    2. Re:Good on them! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The US and other western countries have done this for quite some time now (15-20 years in California that I know of), particularly for monitoring drug consumption of the population as a whole. I'm not sure if the resulting information is made readily available to the public, but there is a government agency out there somewhere collecting this information and using it for something important enough to substantiate the costs involved.

      Source: One of my clients engineers the big compressors that are used to separate waste in sewage plants. Once separated, samples are taken and tested for various compounds.

      They also engineer subsystems that are designed specifically to collect 'unintentional waste of reasonable value' - also known as jewelry. Your wedding ring that went down the shower drain? It didn't get dumped into the ocean. It's most likely that your local sewage plant found it and melted it down for the value of the metal and gems. I found out about this something like ten years ago, and that year my local plant had gained over $400k from reclaimed jewelry. So it seems that sewage treatment really is a dirty business.

    3. Re:Good on them! by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      They plan fifty years ahead, but the plans get thrown away and rewritten from scratch every two years.

    4. Re:Good on them! by Rich0 · · Score: 2

      Not making this up - some groups in Afghanistan think that spreading polio is a good way to get back at the Great Satan.

      Sounds like a genius plan. Spread a disease which is almost universally vaccinated against within the USA, but not within your own community. That will get them far...

  7. Meanwhile, in Syria... by Y-Crate · · Score: 4, Informative

    The WSJ:

    There also have been recent outbreaks in the Horn of Africa and Syria, although there are signs that those cases will soon be mopped up.

    NPR:

    The World Health Organization has declared a polio emergency in Syria.

    After being free of the crippling disease for more than a decade, Syria recorded 10 confirmed cases of polio in October. Now the outbreak has grown to 17 confirmed cases, the WHO said last week. And the virus has spread to four cities, including a war-torn suburb near the capital of Damascus.

    The Syrian government has pledged to immunize all Syrian children under age 5. But wartime politics is getting in the way. And the outbreak is expected to grow.

    "Actually, it is spreading quickly," says Dr. Mohammed Al Saad in Gaziantep, Turkey, near the northern border of Syria. There are now more than 60 suspected cases, he says, with new ones reported each day.

    1. Re:Meanwhile, in Syria... by Jmc23 · · Score: 2

      unfortunately they think that way because of all the imperialistic behaviour of the US as it's spreads the work of Satan.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
  8. Re:Hey - let us feel good for a change! by bloodhawk · · Score: 2

    It is honestly great work by many dedicated people that have lead to this. I applaud them without reserve. I just think it is sad that so many poorly informed people work to undermine these great efforts.

  9. Re:Congrats to Rotary and Bill Gates... by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    As much as everyone likes to hate Bill Gates - India and a number of other countries owe him (and the global Rotary community) for helping in this effort. More on End Polio.

    I don't necessarily disagree... but this effort predates the founding of the Gates Foundation by a few decades. We were hearing about efforts to eradicate Polio back in the 1970s!

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  10. Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Next door to India, Polio is making a come back.

    Same thing also happening in Nigeria, as well as in Mali.

    The common thread in the three locations that is helping Polio making a revival is Islam.

    Yes, Islam is helping to make Polio a permanent fixture to the human race.

    In Pakistan, they actually KILL health workers trying to eradicate Polio. Same thing happen in Nigeria, where Boko Haram has threaten (and sometimes kill) people trying to stop the spread of Polio.

    1. Re:Not so fast ! by Vlad_the_Inhaler · · Score: 2

      If you think Islam = Al Quaeda (sp?) then that is true. Al Q's rejection of the West goes that far.

      --
      Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
    2. Re:Not so fast ! by rvw · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, Islam is helping to make Polio a permanent fixture to the human race.

      The former two catholic popes did similar stuff with condoms and HIV in Africa and South America. I hope this one has more common sense.

    3. Re:Not so fast ! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 5, Informative

      From TFA:

      "Religious leaders were persuaded to join the effort. "The calls that went out to the Muslim faithful every Friday contained reminders to take children to the immunization booths," said Mr. Kapur of Rotary International. "These were the people initially most skeptical of the vaccines but, once convinced, they became our biggest agents of change."

      So it's not Islam in general that's anti-polio. Indeed, you don't get those craziness in any Muslim culture with well-educated populace.

      The people who are killing health workers administering vaccines in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria are not just Muslims. They are Salafi, an extremely fundamentalist Muslim sect that espouses strict Koranic literalism and advocates for a return to the practices of the "original Islam" (which, basically, translates to society and culture frozen as it was in the times of Muhammad). Taliban, Boko Haram, al-Qaeda, Caucasus Emirate etc - these are all Salafi.

    4. Re:Not so fast ! by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Informative

      Do you have a source or are you are retard?

      My god how far has the propaganda that Islam is as harmless as the women's institute gone. Surely you must have read about all the polio workers killed?

    5. Re:Not so fast ! by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, Islam is helping to make Polio a permanent fixture to the human race.

      The former two catholic popes did similar stuff with condoms and HIV in Africa and South America. I hope this one has more common sense.

      Funny, I can't remember the last pope murdering health workers. Even if he did - does that make it right for Muslims to do it too?

    6. Re:Not so fast ! by dbIII · · Score: 3, Interesting

      One of the reasons for that was some IDIOT in the CIA apparently using a polio vaccination program as a cover for a covert operation in Pakistan. There's some lines that should not be crossed. Otherwise it makes us little better than the people that turn kids into walking bombs.

    7. Re:Not so fast ! by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Informative

      One of the reasons for that was some IDIOT in the CIA apparently using a polio vaccination program as a cover for a covert operation in Pakistan.

      It was actually hep-b vax and it was specifically intended to get info on bin laden in abbotobad. Not clear if it was helpful or not.

      http://www.salon.com/2013/01/11/the_fake_vaccination_scheme_absent_from_the_bin_laden_hunt_debates/

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    8. Re:Not so fast ! by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Well-educated fundamentalist Muslim is an oxymoron

      You do realize that religion, not just fundamentalist religion, is negatively correlated with both intelligence and education, right?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:Not so fast ! by AdamColley · · Score: 2

      I suspect you'll hope in vain.

      The Americans are responsible for the attacks on doctors

      Their fake vaccine programme that preceded their extra judicial murder of Osama Bin Laden is what has caused the distrust.

      You cannot place all the blame on the brown people, the united states has become an international bully preying on those with resources it desires, that's the real problem but don't expect to hear much about that.

    10. Re:Not so fast ! by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      And if one airline passenger from one of these countries happens to arrive in the US as a carrier, you're not going to want to let your children play with others this summer. Anti-vax cultists are steadily chipping away at our herd immunity.

    11. Re:Not so fast ! by rvw · · Score: 2

      The Americans are responsible for the attacks on doctors

      Their fake vaccine programme that preceded their extra judicial murder of Osama Bin Laden is what has caused the distrust.

      These murders have been going on long before Bin Laden was killed. Islamic fundamentalists kill not so much doctors, but want to destroy Western institutions in their country. Western medicine, schools for girls, tv stations that air western tv series, etc.

    12. Re:Not so fast ! by Jason+Levine · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Don't think that this only takes place in Africa and South America. My wife used to work for a private all-girls Catholic junior high school in New York. One year, she was teaching health and needed to cover sex education. They brought in someone else to teach it (which, honestly, my wife welcomed since teaching sex ed in a private Catholic school is kind of like grabbing a dangling power line and hoping it isn't live). This person proceeded to tell the girls a bunch of lies like all condoms have tiny holes in them that let sperm and viruses through.

      My wife complained to the principal. Telling the girls not to have sex before marriage because God says so would be one thing. It is a religious school, after all. But spreading blatant lies like this is just wrong. The principal was shocked (or acted so) and promised to look into it. We don't know if this speaker was ever brought back because soon after this we had our second child and my wife quit her job to stay at home with him.

      Still, the fact that there's someone who sells their services going from school to school spreading lies to scare kids into not having sex is frustrating. All this will do is cause kids to have unprotected sex which will lead to teen pregnancy and STDs. Even if they find out the truth, it means they'll be less likely to trust what an adult tells them and might not listen to another piece of advice that could have been life-saving.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    13. Re:Not so fast ! by stdarg · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It was a real polio vaccination program, and the covert operation caught the #1 terrorist (of whom Pakistan claims they had no knowledge, of course).

      You'd think the so-called "mainstream Muslims" (remember how they tell us only 0.0001% of Muslims are terrorists or support terrorists, terrorism is against Islam, etc) would be happy about both things. Nope!

    14. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      From the article you linked:

      After news emerged that the US' Central Intelligence Agency employed a doctor to run a fake hepatitis B vaccination programme in an effort to find Osama bin Laden, conspiracy theories about health workers' activities have abounded - such as claims that vaccinators mark houses to be targeted by US drones. Polio workers have been accused of being CIA operatives, and the campaign has suffered incalculable damage.

      So, it's not simply "crazy Mooslim religionists" causing this --- it's the US and the West's history of undermining all trust in "helpful aid programs" by regularly using such things for nefarious ends. So, the people who sneak into your homes to target them for drone strikes want to stick needles in your kids --- surely, you'd trust them, because science, right? "Islam" isn't the main problem here with undermining trust in medical aid.

    15. Re:Not so fast ! by JackieBrown · · Score: 2

      The Church also forbids sex outside of marriage. If people chose not to follow the no sex rule, then why do you think Church rules would prevent someone from using a condom?

      Maybe you mean husbands giving their faithful wives aids? If the man isn't using a condom with prostitutes, do you really think he would use one with his wife?

    16. Re:Not so fast ! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Nothing to do with Al Quaeda

      AQ is a big part of it, and for GOOD REASON. The United States used health workers, including people administering polio vaccine, to collect intelligence against AQ and the Taliban. Some AQ people were killed as a result. The US has openly admitted doing this. They did it in Abbottadad, to try to local Osama bin Laden (the film "Zero Dark Thirty" showed health workers collecting intelligence). If you don't want health workers targeted in a war, then don't use them to target others.

    17. Re:Not so fast ! by Artifakt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Roman Catholic church has these fellows called "Priests", who actually expect all good Catholics to confess their specific sins, and recieve counseling and do penance for each one as set by the priest. It often defaults to a scoring system, where sex gets you points, then planning for the sex in advance by buying condoms gets you more. Some people therefore feel less guilty, and are treated as officially less guilty, if they can say they didn't plan the sex in advance, it just happened. Since the sex itself can be a powerful motivator, doing the least 'sins' that still result in the reward is often the choice, instead of 'not sinning' at all.
                  The question is, even under RC doctrine, why is sex a sin and doing something that indicates you planned it in advance a greater sin, instead of sex itself being a sin, but trying to reduce bad consequences such as disease spread to yourself OR YOUR PARTNER not a sin? Why is it assumed that using a condom is either to avoid preganacy (again, itself a sin), or to protect only yourself from the "God given consequences" of sin, but never out of genuine feeling for your partner? Why are priests specifically trained to discount that possibility?

      --
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    18. Re:Not so fast ! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      They could demand only doctors belonging to their own faith

      The health workers working for the CIA were muslims.

      islamic countries like Saudi or Pakistan has sufficiently good doctors.

      This is astonishingly ignorant. The government of Saudi Arabia is the PRIMARY target of AQ. AQ's number one reason for attacking the USA on 9/11 was our support for Saudi Arabia. To suggest that they would/should trust Saudis is absurd.

      They could even demand to have medicines handed over and do the vaccinations themselves.

      So all they need to do is ask, and the legitimate governments of Pakistan and Afghanistan will hand over health administration to a terrorist organization? Sure, whatever.

    19. Re:Not so fast ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Due to the Church's influence, condom supplies are limited, and even the idea of teaching people about contraceptives is often forbidden.

      People generally can figure out sex on their own, the usage of condoms, or the reasons for them? Takes a bit more work.

      Or do you think they had no influence?

    20. Re:Not so fast ! by ediron2 · · Score: 2

      > why is ... trying to reduce bad consequences such as disease... not a sin?

      Personally, I think it has to do with God writing doctrine before we discovered bacteria. WHich makes me want to put airquotes around the word God.

  11. At constant risk by Chrisq · · Score: 2, Interesting

    India will still be at constant risk. This modern secular country is right next to a muzzy hell-hole where attacks on polio workers are frequent. Among the many other things that Islam forbids they have now decided that polio vaccines are unislamic.

    yet again this (literally) diabolical 'religion' brings death and suffering to the world.

    1. Re:At constant risk by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Funny

      Criticises religion, "literally" places blame on satan. :)

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:At constant risk by Whiney+Mac+Fanboy · · Score: 2

      India will still be at constant risk. This modern secular country is right next to a muzzy hell-hole where attacks on polio workers are frequent.

      Depressingly, Pakistani muslims are correct in thinking that vaccination programs may be controlled by western governments. The CIA used a fake vaccination program (not polio) to aid in the hunt for Bin Laden.

      Among the many other things that Islam forbids they have now decided that polio vaccines are unislamic.

      Islam does not forbid vaccination.

      --
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  12. Re:Are you that *RETARD* you are looking for ? by DarwinSurvivor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Don't make a claim and then expect the skeptics to find your evidence for you.

  13. Re:Only time will tell by jones_supa · · Score: 2
  14. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by gnoshi · · Score: 2

    Yeah, I knew someone would bring up that one guy who wrote a paper in the Indian medical ethics journal which contained no data to substantiate the claims.
    Of course, you could look at another paper discussing polio vaccination and surveillance in India which says that "[t]he programme [of polio vaccination] includes surveillance of acute flaccid paralysis (AFP) to detect and diagnose cases of polio at early stage. Under this surveillance, over 40,000 cases of AFP are reported annually since 2007 regardless of the number of actual polio cases".
    Could it be that perhaps the correlation between vaccination and NPAFP was because the surveillance was part of the vaccination programme and the temporal relationship was not inherently vaccination -> NFAFP.

    So maybe it is time to, as the paper suggests, move the fuck on.

  15. Re:The 9/11 attackers were college educated ! by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Well-educated" implies, among other things, the ability to rationally think about one's own religion.

    Fact: Many Islamic Terrorists were college educated !

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/opinion/14bergen.html?_r=0

    "We examined the educational backgrounds of 75 terrorists behind some of the most significant recent terrorist attacks against Westerners. We found that a majority of them are college-educated, often in technical subjects like engineering. In the four attacks for which the most complete information about the perpetrators' educational levels is available - the World Trade Center bombing in 1993, the attacks on the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, the 9/11 attacks, and the Bali bombings in 2002 - 53 percent of the terrorists had either attended college or had received a college degree"

    The 1993 attack on World Trade Center

    "The 1993 World Trade Center attack involved 12 men, all of whom had a college education"

    Of the 9/11 attack

    "The 9/11 pilots, as well as the secondary planners identified by the 9/11 commission, all attended Western universities, a prestigious and elite endeavor for anyone from the Middle East. Indeed, the lead 9/11 pilot, Mohamed Atta, had a degree from a German university in, of all things, urban preservation, while the operational planner of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, studied engineering in North Carolina . We also found that two-thirds of the 25 hijackers and planners involved in 9/11 had attended college"

    They were educated in colleges in America as well as in Europe. If they still can't THINK RATIONALLY after getting their college education in WESTERN UNIVERSITIES, who is to blame ?

    The Western Universities or that bloody religion of Islam ?

    Some people's thinking is so strange. Muslims with a University education commit acts of terrorism. Muslims without a University education commit acts of terrorism. So ... lets redefine "well educated" to mean thinking critically about religion and claim that the common factor is that "uneducated" commit acts of terrorism

  16. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by gnoshi · · Score: 2

    It was an unrelated qualitative study, designed to "We conducted a qualitative research to explore care and support for children with AFP after their diagnosis."

    I'm aware of that. I wasn't claiming that was the focus of the paper. The point was that the paper provided information about the coincident testing for NPAFP and vaccination, and thus the fact that they would occur together is not evidence for NPAFP causing NPAFP. Which would be why that quoted part didn't include such a claim and was on another line.
    Just for fun, though, we have non-polio enteroviruses detected in numerous stool samples of those experiencing AFP and such enteroviruses can be associated with NPAFP. Seems like an possible cause for some of those cases.
    There is also this article in 'The Hindi':

    The non-polio AFP rate was not correlated with the number of oral vaccine doses that were administered, countered the WHO Country Office in its response. The largest number of oral vaccine doses given in India was in 2004, which had the lowest non-polio AFP rate in the last eight years. Moreover, although the number of oral vaccine doses given in the country had shown a continuous decline since 2007, the non-polio AFP rate had increased during the same period. In Bihar and U.P. too, there were similar trends of reduced oral vaccine doses and rising AFP rates during 2007-2011.

    Maybe I'm not making this clear about the paper you're citing. It is a paper that makes big claims and provides no evidence. It's opinion. It's opinion, and an opinion that I have not seen replicated anywhere else, and that I have never seen supported by any other paper, ever. The comment to The Hindi by the WHO country office is in direct contradiction to the claims made in that paper (and for good reason: they were rebutting the paper).

    Another interesting quote from the same paper [1] p. 116:

    We have seen how polio, that was not a priority for public health in India, was made the target for attempted eradication with a token donation of $ 0.02 billion. The Government of India nally had to fund this hugely expensive programme, which cost the country 100 times more than the value of the initial grant.

    It could have cost 40 bazillion times the value of the original grant, and that wouldn't make one iota of difference to the relationship between the polio vaccine and NPAFP.

    So, the way it works is that Gates buys pharma stocks, then bribes few officials in India for $0.02 billion to make their country spend 100 times more on the program. Of course, the pharma makes big bucks not only on the vaccines, but far more on life-long "management" of the diseases they caused, all the while Bill's pharma stocks go up. Having been scammed of intellectual property by Microsoft in mid-1990s, I can see that Bill Gates hasn't changed his "ethics" one bit after moving into the "charity" business. It's same old Bill Gates.

    And thus, he caught the bus to crazy-town.

    NPAFP is a genuine problem, but it is a genuine problem that would be better addressed by addressing NPAFP rather than hanging off the words of one paper by two doctors in one country-specific medical ethics journal with no supporting evidence.

  17. Re:Hubris by EmagGeek · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "Mosquitoes are entirely dispensable."

    Tell that to the spiders, frogs, lizards, birds, fish, and the thousands of other species that evolved to subsist primarily on mosquitoes.

    Also tell it to the aquatic plants that would suffocate and die if not for the mosquito larvae eating the detritus and other waste that would otherwise film the surface of stagnant lakes and create a gas-exchange barrier preventing the passage of nitrogen and oxygen.

    The list goes on, but extincting the mosquito would have devastating environmental consequences.

  18. I survived polio! by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I mean I am still alive and polio is (almost) dead!

    I contracted polio in rural India when I was about 5, 10 years after Salk's vaccine was deployed all over the USA. I had switched schools about six times in k-12, (civil servant dad posted to all the distant corners of the realm). In almost every class, in every school I had another victim as classmate. That is anecdotal evidence with the survivor bias too. How many had died? How many did not even attend school?

    Well, I am glad the scourge has been eliminated in India. Hope the fundie clerics do not stand in the way of complete eradication. It is very disheartening the fundie clerics and the Haj pilgrimage is re-introducing it again in far flung regions of the world. If polio found an able adversary in science, it has found a reliable ally in the form of Muslim fundamentalists.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  19. Re:The vomiting smelly cocks... by Pseudonym · · Score: 2

    That... (roll)... works. Damn. Well, you guys have to pay for the pizza.

    --
    sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
  20. Don't worry... by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't worry, Jenny McCarthy will be over with a horde of uneducated soccer moms to fuck it all up for you soon enough.

  21. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by gnoshi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Totally.
    Citation 1: a lot of people have been vaccinated
    Citation 2: it has cost lost of monies
    Citation 3: it cost the US some monies too
    Citation 4: oh, and some of Bill's monies also
    Citation 5: Rotary too
    Citation 6: new WHO name-and-shame policy
    Citation 7, 8: an acronym exists which no-one knows the origin of ...
    Citation 22: Bill really, really wants polio gone. Seriously, he's been campaigning. ...
    Citation 25: the first kind of relevant one to their claims, but doesn't actually seem to say what they say it does
    Citation 26: Provides alternative explanation for their interpretation of Citation 25
    Citation 27-28: Don't actually speak to the possible relationship and vaccine at all, but rather say that NPAFP is more dangerous than polio (loosely)
    Citation 29: my personal favorite. Data which shows that in regions with number of doses, and cases of NPAFP. The winning characteristic is certainly that the claimed result is true, if you cherry-pick the regions for which it is true. i.e. if you look over all the regions and across times then you do find what they claim in two regions: the ones they present.

    I'm winding it up there. The first of the 40 citations which is really relevant to the claimed connection between the vaccine and NPAFP is citation 29.
    Citations 31+ likewise appear to not actually lend any support to the claim of an association between the vaccine and NPAFP, but rather point out that India has high rates of NPAFP (which is consistent with some of these being caused by enteroviruses spread via the fecal-oral route).

    In summary: the paper remains bollocks, and virtually all of the 40 citations actually have 3/8 of FA to do with supporting their claim.

  22. Re:Congrats to Rotary and Bill Gates... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes the effort pre-dates the Gates Foundation. But the latest efforts have been partly funded by the Gates Foundation with a challenge grant. The effort was running out of gas until Bill and Melinda stepped up. The greatest thanks should go to the rotarians and health workers in the third world countries where these efforts continue. The logistics required to deliver doses to millions of children in third world conditions is massive.

  23. Quick by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 3, Funny

    Oprah! Call Jenny McCarthy, quick! We've got a situation in India that requires ignorance, stat!

  24. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by 3.5+stripes · · Score: 2

    Pwned.

    --


    He tried to kill me with a forklift!
  25. Re:Now if they could only do something about... by blueg3 · · Score: 2

    We're able to eradicate diseases effectively when they have no non-human reservoir. That's because if we eliminate all existing cases and prevent new cases for a little while (through vaccination), the disease will die out. For diseases with non-human reservoirs, like rabies, we'd have to eliminate the disease in the entire reservoir population, too, which is infeasible.

  26. Re:Unfair accusations by cusco · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In many dioceses the Church also makes selling or giving away condoms a sin. Healthcare workers are also forbidden from recommending condoms for birth control. Marriages that cannot be "correctly" consummated, e.g. one partner has HIV so barriers must be used, are not considered valid.

    It's not money and comfort, it's power that attracts many people to the priesthood. Power over parishioners in the case of the parish priest, or really enormous power over the political process affecting the lives of millions when they reach the position of archbishop or cardinal.

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  27. Re:NPAFP: It was name "polio" that was eradicated by Nightlight3 · · Score: 2

    You may have not read the full text pdf, since I was quoting from a peer reviewed paper which had 40 citations backing up all figures and facts stated in the paper.