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New Home Automation?

Posted by Unknown on from the color-changing-lights-and-infinity-mirrors-everywhere dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Ok, fellow geeks... I have the luxury of finally building my dream home from scratch. It's going to be good sized (~4000 sq ft over 3 levels), and rather than run around at night to make sure my lights are off, doors are locked, garage is closed, etc, I really want to put in a home automation system. Since the walls aren't up, this is the time for complete flexibility as to my options. The last time I did a whole house, it was years ago, X10. Since then, lots of other protocols, both 'proprietary' and more general (like WiFi) have come on the market for devices — all better than what I've worked with in the past. What do you all have experience with and recommend as reliable, secure, and fairly easy to use? Something with a good chance for long term availability of parts and features would be a bonus."

26 of 336 comments (clear)

  1. conduit in anticipation by EthanBernard · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Place thin wall plastic conduit, as big a diameter as you can fit, within the walls between rooms in anticipation of whatever future technology you might have to route through there.

    1. Re:conduit in anticipation by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And start by running two CAT-5 and two coax cables to each WALL in every room. Yeah. Yeah wireless... Yeah, whatever. Run the cables.

    2. Re:conduit in anticipation by bob_super · · Score: 5, Informative

      Start using them by running two CAT-6, a pair of multimode, and if you can afford it (4000ft2?) a pair of singlemode fiber. Don't need to connect them yet, just have enough space for outlets.
      At least two of these conduits per room, opposite walls/corners. At least one conduit to each outside wall of the house (put power in these ones too, not everything is PoE). Maybe one more conduit to the top of each outside wall if you want to add cameras-over-IP out of reach, while keeping regular plugs low.

      Ideally you'd have all the conduits lead to two different rooms/closets/hidden_panels, in case you have to modify the house in the future, or if you expect people to come grabbing, whether they knock with a warrant or break the window.

    3. Re:conduit in anticipation by immaterial · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If he's running conduit there's no reason whatsoever to run all those unnecessary cables through it. The whole point of conduit is it makes it possible to pull whatever you need if and when you need it. I have conduit to at least three walls of each room in my house but I've only pulled cat 6 and tv cable to the specific walls I need at the moment. Why waste the money installing useless cable?

    4. Re:conduit in anticipation by grub · · Score: 5, Funny

      While he's at it, he may as well install some Twinax in case someone with an AS/400 comes for a visit and needs some Token Ring love.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    5. Re:conduit in anticipation by mhotchin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't forget outside! At the very *least*, run conduit to the end of the driveway if it's any length - at least two, so you can run power and low voltage stuff (code usually forbids running both in the same conduit). Access for the deck etc also useful.

      It doesn't hurt to run some other access points out the house as well, to help with future dev. I put in a carport, and the *one* available conduit coming out of the house made power and a camera possible. We have concrete sidewalk al around the house, so getting wires from the outside to the inside is very difficult now.

      For music / audio about the house, you usually want access to the ceiling of each room, so you might want to think about conduit for that as well. Our house had wire installed, but not the right type - we had to live with it since I didn't want to rip out ceilings and walls everywhere.

    6. Re:conduit in anticipation by Charcharodon · · Score: 5, Informative

      You are correct, instead of running the wires, just run a length of string/cord through, that way later if you decide you want a run then just tie it off and pull it through. Don't forget to add another piece of cord along with the cable you are running!

    7. Re:conduit in anticipation by MikeBabcock · · Score: 5, Informative

      Update that to three CAT-6 + 1 coax, and you're doing well. Most signals can be piggybacked on CAT-6 these days (including HDMI and USB) so make those connections easily cross-connected and well labelled.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    8. Re:conduit in anticipation by auzy · · Score: 4, Informative

      I work for a company who installs automation here in Australia (Mox BI VIC). Firstly, the good thing is that you have the opportunity to decide how you want to wire things now if the house isn't built.

      1) Start by Wiring back the TPS for lights, downlights, and power points to a single rack. This means that you wont need to crack open the wall to change to a new tech in the future, even if you plan to use a retrofitable system. I cry a little when I see a new house being built, and a retrofitable technology tacked on. Structuring the wiring will make all the difference in the future.

      2) Wireless technologies such as Z-Wave are great, however, keep in mind that technologies running on 2.4GHZ need to accept interference. If the idiot neighbors run a baby monitor on those frequencies, and you get dropouts, you cannot sue them, or force them to change. For that reason, only use wireless technologies for retrofits if possible (for multicolored lights, they may need to realistically be wireless though). Do not design a system that will rely on it (except for iPad/iPhone AV control).

      3), Run more CAT5/CAT6 than you think you need. And keep in mind, CAT6A theoretically can run up to 10gbit/s up to 37m. There is higher quality unofficial standards such as CAT7A available, however, only install them if you have the money (because, they aren't official, and may not add any real benefit, but are nice to have).

      4) Have a 15A socket in the garage. UPS's work better with it, and, in an automated home, it might be nice to have control of some features.. Also, try to get a high-amperage TPS run to the garage (for electric cars potentially in the future).

      5) Single story house is TONS less painful for future changes than double. If you are doing double, be doubly sure that the wiring downstairs is right. You might not get a second chance without tearing serious holes in plaster (which we have had to do in a few systems to add/change extra functionality the client later wanted).

      6) Run at least 3 Ethernets to every TV. You might want a matrix switch later, and you may also want to control your TV's. If you run a single CAT5 to each TV, you might regret it..

      7) You might want electric blinds... Keep that in mind.. You may also want gate lock and front/back door to be openable via intercom.

      8) The last problem is wall switches. Unfortunately, many common protocols at this time use a Bus wired system (we use CANBUS, which is utilised in cars also). If you run 6-core security wire in a chain to each point, and RJ45 back to the central rack, you should be covered (albeit, in an expensive way).

      9) Pick a standard with an open protocol. To be honest, many protocols can be reverse engineered (it just takes time). If you have the protocol though, even if you pick a standard that dies, it may be possible to develop a software bridge that bridges between 2 protocols, and slowly phase parts of the system out.

      Obviously, I am biased, but I recommend MOX Canbus (as I know MOX is committed to the system for the long haul), but, ultimately, the system you choose will also depend on your country anyway (because, it needs to be electrically approved in that country anyway).

  2. Z-Wave by tftp · · Score: 5, Informative

    Z-Wave is the only one that you want to have. Insteon is not very reliable, being dependent on power lines for signaling (at low baud rate, to make things worse) and nothing else can compare to these two.

    Z-Wave is entirely RF-based and requires no wiring. However make sure you have plenty of Ethernet everywhere because you will want to have Ethernet-connected sensors such as the power meter, the solar inverter, and a bunch more - plan for those ahead of time.

    Plan also for video cameras for security and Ethernet cables to them for IP (or coaxial cables if you pick analog cameras.) You will need entry/exit keypad controllers to operate things (don't know what kind of property you got.) Basically, plan everything before they are done with framing. Make sure all wires are in steel conduits, so that they are protected from Mickey Mouse. You will need live + neutral + protective ground everywhere.

    1. Re:Z-Wave by djrobxx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you think you might ever want to use Insteon (which does have some issues, but has some cool features as well), make sure you include a neutral to all of your wall switch boxes.

      You want this for Z-wave also. There are two-wire Z-wave switches, but they usually require an incandescent bulb. To expand on this a bit - make sure that lighting switches are wired with a constant hot and neutral, and separate load wiring. Usually this means the line and load's neutrals and grounds are tied together in the switch box, and the hot is switched. There are some other more creative ways to do lighting circuits that make things more of a pain when trying to replace switches.

      If you can, get the electrician to label the load wire (the one that runs to the light). That can sometimes be a pain to figure out if there's only line and load in a single gang box. I also second the suggestion for alarm wiring. Figure you want motion sensors and wires to every door and window run to some central location. Changing the batteries on these is a big pain if you have a lot of sensors, and the sensors can also be part of your automation logic.

  3. Run Everything to a Low Voltage / Electrical Close by DanSSJ4 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Make sure you run everything, Coax, Cat5/6, Lighting Electrical, Alarms, etc. to a single Telco Closet, or one on each floor.
    The biggest problem is usually having to run or rerun wires after construction do to poor planning.

    Also put at least one Ethernet jack in every room. Wireless is subject to interference from neighbors, other 2.4 & 5 ghz devices, etc. plus you get use them for video, audio, etc. in the future if necessary.

    That is where I would start, that way if you find later that you overlooked something, or decide to change some automation devices you will have the flexibility to do so.

    I like the Bayweb Thermostats, it is easy to manage multiple HVAC units, which you will certainly have with a house that size.

  4. Re:WTF? by hawguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    WTF do you need to ask questions that are really none of your business?

    Since we all live on a planet with finite resources, overconsumption of limited resources is everyone's business.

  5. Don't. by ddt · · Score: 5, Informative

    Ever lived in a house with a built-in intercom? Find yourself using it? Don't feel bad. No one else does, either.

    For long-term value, try to resist the urge to automate it today. Lasting value will come from routing high quality, shielded cables both for data and power to multiple outlets in every room as well as creating strong rooms and creating lots of easily accessible, strong mount points where you can install things you'd like to automate with whatever the latest and greatest tech is. They might be mounts for motors for pulleys for shades or mount points for light fixtures or for a robotic arm that changes your baby's diapers or a landing pad for flying bot that fetches you snacks from the kitchen. The thing is, tech is changing *so* ridiculously fast now, that no matter what you choose today, it's going to be not only obsolete in no time, but in all probability some kind of maintenance and even security liability later.

    If you design those mount points in to look attractive instead of like nubs of unfinished 2x4, that's going to be the real art of making a house that a hacker can thrive in but that can improve continuously over time and that can be of value to someone in the market for a house 10-20 years later. Goes without saying, but removable wall panels are also a great way to make a house far more maintainable into the future.

    1. Re: Don't. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      A space for running pipes vertically is called a chase. Be careful, a chase is also a way for a fire to very easily get from the basement to the attic.

    2. Re:Don't. by JoeMerchant · · Score: 4, Funny

      >Ever lived in a house with a built-in intercom? Find yourself using it?

      I did, I never would have installed it myself, but since it was there, yeah, we used it, and would have used it more if it had decent sound quality.

      That was a uniquely laid out house, 2800sf in a sort of U shape - intercom went from one tip of the U to the other - beat the hell out of waving your arms frantically in the window to get attention followed up by charades / sign language, which we also did sometimes when the intercom was on the fritz.

    3. Re: Don't. by DerekLyons · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I was about to say the same thing - chases are dangerous, that's why they have specific regulations in the fire code.

      And that brings up another thing... if you want to 'futureproof' your house, tech is about the third or fourth thing on the list at least. Build the house to code or beyond (preferably beyond). Make sure there is maintenance access and load paths to major equipment (water heater, heater, washing machine, dryer). Look to building in accessibility features (hallways wide enough to take wheelchairs and power scooters, a place for a ramp in the future, a handicapped shower/tub, all the stuff you or a future buyer will want when they get old).

      Goddam geeks are always worried about the latest shiny, and never concerned about tomorrow.

  6. Z wave by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's what I'm starting to use and it's pretty good so far. Door locks, window/door sensors, thermostats, motion sensors, lights, outlets, dimmers, etc. Pretty handy so far. Scripting with LUUP (a LUA like language) is pretty simple, and you can get it to play pretty easily with other whole-house solutions (like SONOS).

    For example, when I get home, I can use my cell phone to open the garage door, turn on the garage light, the hallway light, the family room light, turn on the tea maker, and fire up SONOS to the Pandora station of my choice. At night, I can issue a single "time to sleep" command and the house locks itself up, sets lights/temperatures appropriately, and I'm set.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  7. Re:Insteon by tftp · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have exactly 42 addressable Insteon devices, plus some access points and some motion sensors that are not addressable. The reliability of all of them hovers about 90%. Note that Insteon retransmits up to 4 times if ACK is not seen. Only one device has 60% reliability, and that is probably due to wiring that leads to it. I also have one Insteon thermostat; it is so bad (crashes) that I cannot have it in the network.

    The largest problem is when you walk into a room and press a button. Two events are generated at the same time, and they are competing for bandwidth. Oftentimes one of them is not delivered to the controller. Insteon is not that good at resolving collisions.

    I have some Z-wave devices, since I'm developing their firmware (we have the license and the SDK.) Z-Wave is faster, and this means that probability of collision is lower. There is also spatial separation of segments of a larger network - RF reaches only some nodes, but not all of them. In power line based systems all nodes hear all other nodes because the injected signal is pretty loud. (Exception is RF connections of Insteon, but even then if several access points hear your motion sensor they may both retransmit.)

    One obvious advantage of Insteon is cost - these are cheaper devices. But expect about 5% of them to fail on you. I have three devices that are dead now. Insteon also works in steel NEMA boxes; Z-Wave will require the antenna to be dragged out.

  8. Where to begin ... by xplosiv · · Score: 4, Informative

    I highly recommend you check out CocoonTech.com, especially the forums, as there are thousands of folks who have done this, and can bring you up to speed pretty quick. There is also a guide on the site (Wiring your home 101) which will tell you what wires you should run assuming budget isn't an issue (this lets you pick and chose what wire really matters to you).

    You have so many options, it really depends on the time you are willing to put in, budget, and features you want.

    I recommend you use an Elk M1 or HAI Omni Pro II security/automation panel as the 'core' of your system if security is really important to you, or if automation is your main vice, then look at the SmartThings, Vera, ISY-99, and HomeTroller (Zee) hardware controllers.

    Most of us top this installation off with a software component, so we can bridge/interface many protocols and technologies (this way you aren't stuck with just one solution). Most popular commercial software solutions are Homeseer and CQC, but there are many alternatives, free, open source, etc.

    Currently, Z-Wave, INSTEON, UPB, ZigBee, and WeMo are the popular protocols.

    If you have the budget, consider hardwiring your home automation light switches, as the wireless/powerline based solutions aren't perfect, plus you have to worry about latency/security. CentraLite, Crestron and Lutron RadioRA are popular commercial solutions. They usually require dealer/installer access, but if you really look around, you could get access to the hardware (I'd probably combine RadioRA with a HAI/ELK panel).

    There is so much more to tell, so if you have any other questions, ask away, and don't forget to check out the CocoonTech home automation forums!

  9. Re:WTF? by ls671 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hi Denis!

    This is Lea Samson from HR, could you please come see me tomorrow when your are in the office? I have an important matter to discuss with you regarding your career advancement.

    --
    Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
  10. Re:WTF? by hawguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    WTF do you need to ask questions that are really none of your business?

    Since we all live on a planet with finite resources, overconsumption of limited resources is everyone's business.

    That's great. A few questions .... Since you have no idea where this house is going to be (Orlando or the Outback), how it's going to be used (shop space? home business?) and who is going to live there (extended family? orphans?) how is it that you know it involves "overconsumption"? Could you clarify the existence of this nebulous planetary authority that makes it "everybody's" business? Is everything that consumes finite limited resources "everyone's business"?

    Will the state that specifies or limits the size of a bedroom also stay out of it? After all, things that go on in the bedroom tend to result in the consumption of many resources. (children or diseases)

    Do you know where the committee that oversees you meets? Someone here might want to put in an application.

    I'm not sure why the location matters - are square feet smaller in Orlando? Are home building supplies shipped in from some other planet to the Outback?

    If he had some special use for the house like running an orphanage, or devoting half of it a shop or a photo studio or some other special use, you'd think he would have mentioned it since that would be pertinent for automation. All he said was "my dream home" and "4000 sq ft", so it's not unreasonable to assume a single family home.

    And yes, everything that consumes finite resources is everybody's business, that's why water and energy policies are so often in the news -- you can't separate water and energy from consumption, since whether it's food, lumber, or home automation equipment, everything needs water and energy to create. For that matter, you can hardly separate water and energy since the two are so intertwined.

    Any individual can ignore the consequences of overuse, since it's true that one person really doesn't make any difference. But that doesn't mean that as a society that we should encourage it. The population is growing and, barring any catastrophes, will continue to do so for the foreseeable future - in 50 years there could be 100 - 300M more people living in the USA (depending on which population growth figures you believe) and it will be a lot harder to accommodate that growth if everyone lives in 4000 sq ft houses. Plus, as the world population grows and more and more people graduate to a 1st world lifestyle, energy (and other resource) demand will grow even faster than the population.

  11. What I've learnt from automating my own home by aXis100 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've nearly gone as far as I can automating systems and devices my current home - temperature & humidity sensing in most rooms, motion sensing in every room, zoned ducted evaporative aircon, a couple of split reverse cycle aircons, z-wave lighting and exhaust fans, and mains power monitoring.

    -- Lighting ---
    Z-Wave works mostly well enough, and I use this to automatically turn on lights when motion is detected, turn off lights after a while with no motion, or turn off when I go to bed. Unfortunately the turn-on the signal can take up to several seconds on a large 1-wire network, so even when the motion sensor triggers quickly you can still be halfway across a room before the lights turn on which is a pain. On top of that, I cant disable the z-wave dimmer soft-on and soft-off feature which is a pain when you're trying to get quick response. For the turn off, it's probably not worth it since I upgraded to LED lights as the power saved is negligible.

    At the price of parts + install being $150 - $200 per light fixture it's not really been worth. A few minor conveniences and a lot of annoyances. I think I'd be better off with no automation on most regular light fixtures, and just some inline z-wave switches on frestanding lamps and mood lighting. Maybe automation on the living room and master bedroom for convenience / scenes.

    -- Temperature / Humidity ---
    Temperature and humidity sensing in every room has been great. In Australia where I live it's quite uncommon to have a whole house climate control system, so I've used these to help come up with a automated strategy for every room that integrates the available air conditioning systems. Also I've used the temperature, humidity and (calculated) air speed in each room to create a "feels like" temperature. Controlling against this rather than the dry air temp has given a much better result.

    I've been using 1-wire devices as sensors, which need 1 or 2 twisted pairs for comms and power - cat5 is great. The DS18B20 temperature sensors are very cheap, have been very reliable and can send signals over long distances. Unfortunately the DS2438 based humidity sensors are not as good and I've had to partition the network a 1-Wire hub. Currently I still have intermittent errors with just 30m of cable on each DS2438 leg, whereas the DS18B20 temperature sensors could cope with a load of 100m plus. If I was building a new house I'm not sure if I'd use them again due to the issues with humidity sensing, but I'm not convinced there's many other affordable alternatives either. For reference the DS18B20 sensors are costing me about $2 each, and the DS2438 based humidity sensors (using a Honeywell humidity IC) are about $20 each from parts. Since I work as a control engineer, my next preferred option would be modbus slave devices over RS485.

    -- Air conditioning ---
    For the split reverse cycle aircons I used a central GlobalCache IP2IR infrared blaster, and then ran long wires with a concealed IR emmitter fitted inside the aircon head units. This works fine but the IR programming for air conditioners is painful. I wish there was an automation interface standard for them.

    For the ducted aircon I had to integrate the zone controller using an arduino for digital IO, communicating back to the central server via RS232 serial (over cat5). I upgraded the fan to use a VFD (variable frequency drive) and this can be controlled directly over RS485 using MODBUS RTU.

    -- Conclusion --
    If I had my chance again I'd probably just run multiple cat5e or cat6 to every room
    - 2 to 4 at floor level for computers and TV's
    - 1 or 2 behind the light switches for potential CBUS or other wired lighting control systems. These would be wired to a seperate patch panel
    - 1 or 2 behind a wall mounted sensor enclosure - this could then have both a temp/humidity sensor and IR emitter fitted. These would also be wired to a seperate patch panel

    Ideally I wouldnt run any mains power to wall light switches - all of t

  12. Always behind the curve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    In my first house, I put in coax everywhere for 10BASE2 to be on the cutting edge. It was cool until copper came out.
    In my second house, I put in CAT5 everywhere for 100BASE-T to really future-proof the wiring. Then fibre was the rage.
    In my third house, I put in fibre everywhere for ATM and wasted a lot of money. Did I say I wasted a lot of money?
    In my fourth house, I put in CAT6 everywhere for 1000BASE-T since it should also do 10GBASE-T. But my runs were longer than 55 meters.
    In my fifth house, I said, #%!% it, and didn't wire anything. It became a ghost house where if I pick up my wireless phone, my Wi-Fi connection dropped, my Wi-Fi cameras went nuts, and my Wi-Fi controlled lights flipped randomly. It was great for Halloween.

    Movin's a bitch.

  13. Powerless by camperdave · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Having just gone through a multi-day power failure due to an ice storm (Toronto), I suggest that you put a little thought into what you might need if you had a long term power outage. You don't say where you are, but in a lot of places, it can get awfully cold without power. If you live in a winter climate, I suggest that you have a "warm room"; a room within the house where even the interior walls are insulated. That room should have a properly vented and working fireplace or wood stove, and/or gas heating, and be large enough for the entire family to sack out in sleeping bags. Having a backup generator is also a good idea. Multiple exits on different sides of the house are a good idea, in case your front door gets a two inch thick coating of ice on it, and you can't get out.

    I'm not saying be a prepper, but a few precautions while the house is in the planning stages could save your life, or at least make a tough situation more tolerable.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  14. Re:WTF? by Yoda222 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is already something called money, but it's definitely not set it up so that people who contribute more to society are given more allocations.