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Engineers: Traffic Studies Use Simulation Software, Not Lane Closings

Lucas123 writes "The so-called 'traffic study' that closed New Jersey access lanes on the heavily traveled George Washington Bridge last September has left engineers scratching their heads, because in modern America, simulation software is used instead of closing down lanes. One of the best sources for simulation data are video camera systems that use software to count vehicles on roadways. Traffic studies use microscopic traffic simulations to create virtual environments that can model driver behavior to road changes with exacting detail. Instead, the Port Authority, under Gov. Chris Christie, shut down two of the three access lanes for four days last September from Fort Lee to the George Washington Bridge without warning the public, citing a 'traffic study.' 'I would be pretty confident that if we knew exactly which lanes are closed we could replicate that, and it would show exactly how bad the backups are going to be,' said Lorenzo Rotoli, an engineer and vice president at Fisher Associates, a civil engineering firm in New York that works on roads, bridges and signal systems."

27 of 265 comments (clear)

  1. In other words ... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Informative

    This was a spiteful and petty act of retribution, pretty much much as reported already.

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    1. Re:In other words ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Exactly. Fuck West Virginia.

    2. Re:In other words ... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't even understand this story. The smoking gun has already been found, reported, and Jon Stewart did a whole send-up of it last week.

      Why would anybody still be trying to figure out if the attempted cover-up was bogus or not?

      I realize the guy has aspirations for power, but if he were successful we can be confident he'd appoint the same kind of viscous, vindictive, psychopathic cronies who would do similar things at his behest (irrespective of whether he know about this incident). That's not a tradition we can afford to continue in Washington.

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    3. Re:In other words ... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I must confess, unless it's just to get page hits, or to demonstrate that nobody could plausibly claim to have really been doing a traffic study ... I find myself asking the same question.

      However, in modern politics, you don't refute the facts, you provide your own 'facts' and talk really loud about something else.

      Maybe this is just a more reasoned attempt to short circuit that.

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    4. Re:In other words ... by daremonai · · Score: 4, Funny

      Geography is sooo overrated.

    5. Re:In other words ... by nbauman · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't even understand this story. The smoking gun has already been found, reported, and Jon Stewart did a whole send-up of it last week.

      Why would anybody still be trying to figure out if the attempted cover-up was bogus or not?

      Slashdot got the mathematical modeling angle.

    6. Re:In other words ... by bobbied · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Good luck getting elected now ya meathead. Rand Paul can run circles around this guy.

      Rand Paul? Ok, you are one of those people. Cruz has more name recognition and you won't find many confused Rand with Ron (his father) which is a serious problem because Ron is NUTS.

      About Christie, All I can say is it really sucks being the perceived "front runner" because *everybody* is gunning for you. It's easier to fund raise, but at three years out you'd rather not draw such attention and fund raising is not exactly in full swing yet. Nobody would care about a "traffic study" if he was #3 or #4 on the list of contenders.

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    7. Re:In other words ... by ArtForz · · Score: 3, Funny

      Viscous cronies? So... they're really thick?

    8. Re:In other words ... by smooth+wombat · · Score: 4, Informative

      The smoking gun has already been found,

      Not according to Fox. On their opening broadcast when the initial emails were released, the first words out of the talking head's mouth was (as near as I can remember), "There was no smoking gun found in the documents released today about the New Jersey bridge shutdown."

      Why would anybody still be trying to figure out if the attempted cover-up was bogus or not?

      Again, going back to Fox, they're still wondering why people are so enamored with this story. After the first day they essentially dropped all coverage except for a tiny blurb along the right side of their web page, and then only to keep wondering why the media was so focused on this event.

      I realize using Fox as a reference is akin to using the National Enquirer, but I'm just answering your questions.

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      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    9. Re:In other words ... by SpankiMonki · · Score: 5, Informative

      What I want to know, is why any state's DOT would take orders like that EVEN if they thought it came from the Governor himself. Most rational state governments do not allow the Governor to micro-manage road and lane closures, for non-emergency reasons, and when there is a real emergency need, the DOT is usually well ahead of the elected officials.

      Why does New Jersey allow a governor to make that call?

      NY and NJ DOTs have nothing to do with it. The GWB is run by the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey which separate from the state governments. The only reason the NJ governor's office was able to pull this off was because of their appointees & other cronies inside the PANYNJ.

    10. Re:In other words ... by ShaunC · · Score: 3, Informative

      For what it's worth, I was watching CNN coverage last night (Piers Morgan, Anderson Cooper) and both had their share of panelists who were also saying there is no smoking gun. I haven't had time yet to look at today's developments, but I haven't seen anything that directly implicates Governor Christie. He just comes out looking incompetent for not knowing what his top aides were up to, which isn't much better.

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      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
    11. Re:In other words ... by braeldiil · · Score: 4, Informative

      And this is a perfect example of how, if you repeat your false story enough times, people will believe it. The IRS office in question flagged groups from all over the political spectrum to determine if they were engaging in political activities that would prevent them from being tax exempt charities. Yes, they used "Tea Party" as a flag for further investigation, but they also used "Occupy". They were attempting to enforce the law passed by Congress, albeit in a very bad, possibly illegal way. For the record, they started these investigations after specific requests from Congress to make sure these nonprofits weren't breaking the law. But the House very carefully tailored their requests to make it appear that only conservative groups were targeted, and attempted to supress testimony that demonstrated groups from all over the spectrum were affected. Once the full testimony transcripts were released, the press realized there wasn't really much of a story and mostly dropped it. But low-information voters like you never bothered to follow the story to its end.

    12. Re:In other words ... by JustOK · · Score: 4, Funny

      NOT TRUE! The study of rocks is very critical.

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      rewriting history since 2109
    13. Re:In other words ... by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So, you're saying that the organizations were illegally dedicated to political purposes, in spite of their application for tax exemption?

      I don't get the logic here... are you trying to say how unfair it was to scrutinize people for a felony so they couldn't commit a felony?

    14. Re:In other words ... by ttucker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I assume this is a evidence substantiated sub-theory, rather than absurdly shifted goalposts when reality shows to be the opposite of paranoid claims. Right?

      Nobody is shifting the goalposts, besides you. The original complaint was that the IRS delayed the applications, such that the groups could not participate in the political debate leading to the 2012 US presidential election. The groups in fact were not able to participate. Nobody gives a shit, really, whether they were granted the status afterwards... it is a superfluous detail, only further supporting the original thesis.

    15. Re:In other words ... by SpankiMonki · · Score: 4, Informative

      That being said, can you provide links for your version of this information?

      Here.

      ...and here.

      ...and here.

    16. Re:In other words ... by runningduck · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So your grievance is that groups which should not qualify for the tax status if they are political were delayed with their participating in the political debate?

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  2. It was a traffic study by viperidaenz · · Score: 3, Funny

    He was studying how playing traffic god would impact his political career

    1. Re:It was a traffic study by roc97007 · · Score: 4, Funny

      He was studying how playing traffic god would impact his political career

      There really needs to be an Android game called "traffic god".

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      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    2. Re:It was a traffic study by daremonai · · Score: 4, Informative
  3. Re:duh by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The real question is whether it ordered by a rogue official(s), or the governor himself. If information comes out that the governor was involved then he just lost himself a chance at being president.

    No, the real question is, has politics stooped so low that political staff (and possibly politicians) feel entitled to act like petulant little children and expect to get away with it?

    And, if so, why is society prepared to live with their politicians and staff acting like such douchebags?

    I don't care what political stripe you are, fucking with the traffic patterns to seek retribution against a political foe makes you an asshole.

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    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  4. News for Nerds? by CubicleZombie · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Or is this just because Christie is a republican. 2016 is starting early around here.

    The democrat governor of MY state closed the DMVs in all the districts that voted in republican delegates. Didn't make the news at all. And now he's a U.S. Senator.

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    1. Re: News for Nerds? by babydog · · Score: 5, Informative

      As the linked-to article indicates, because most districts in VA were Republican, any DMV closings made on the basis of cost and number of customers served had to affect Republicans. For what it's worth, my local non-Republican-serving Arlington DMV office was also closed, and Arlington customers had to go stand in the massive line in Tysons. (I think the story was: immigrants could acquire a VA drivers license without proof of legal residency relatively easily up until a certain point after 9/11. The Tysons office was swamped until that and other things changed.)

  5. Re:duh by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 3, Informative

    The problem is that the reasoning ability is low and the length of memory is short.

    The same conundrum can be seen in Florida's governor, Rick Scott. He presided over a company involved in what was to that time the biggest Medicare fraud in U.S. history. He was either incompetent or a full fledged criminal. And what happens... people in Florida made his governor.

    If people thought through things I would agree, but come vote type old Fat Farmer Joe is going to pull the lever marked "Republican Straight Ticket" because he bases all his votes on political stereotype or talking points. The fact that we have a malice vs incompetence conundrum is not going to matter to Farmer Joe because he's late for Hee-Haw.

  6. Re:duh by MaWeiTao · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, the real question is, has politics stooped so low that political staff (and possibly politicians) feel entitled to act like petulant little children and expect to get away with it?

    This question has long since been answered. Anyone who follows local politics knows that this sort of thing is a daily occurrence. The difference is that most of these politicians don't have aspirations of being president, they just want all the perks and kickbacks that come with the position. So none of it ever gets the attention it deserves.

    If you're stuck in a city or town that has voted in the same party for decades then there's corruption and nepotism on a level you can't even imagine. So the fact that it tricks up to state level isn't surprising at all. Sometimes it makes it all the way up to Federal government, but those guys are operating on a whole other level.

  7. Oh look by argStyopa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Another reason to talk about the "Bridgegate" scandal instead of, I dunno, real news like Obamacare, unemployment, our moribund economy, the ongoing blunders in foreign policy, NSA surveillance, etc.

    Please, let's talk about Chris Christie some more.

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    1. Re:Oh look by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 4, Insightful
      What the hell are you talking about? Every news outlet panned the roll out obamacare, Obama had a couple of press conferences, there are constant stories about obamacare all the time. Actually I wish they will talk more about Obamacare, because now the site has turned around, and actual beneficiaries are there to talk to. Some 10 million of them. 3 million age less than 26 sticking on to parents plans, 2.2 million private enrolees and some 4.2 million medicaid expansion. Imagine where it would be if it got bit of cooperation from the Republicans.

      Unemployment is a constant news story. It keeps coming up, most recently in the disappointing job numbers for Dec 2013. Moribund economy is another constant news item. NSA surveillance is a constant news item. Foreign policy, Syria, Israel, Egypt constantly in the news.

      Just come out of the echo chamber to realize how much Democrats have been trashed by the press.

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