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Engineers: Traffic Studies Use Simulation Software, Not Lane Closings
Lucas123 writes "The so-called 'traffic study' that closed New Jersey access lanes on the heavily traveled George Washington Bridge last September has left engineers scratching their heads, because in modern America, simulation software is used instead of closing down lanes. One of the best sources for simulation data are video camera systems that use software to count vehicles on roadways. Traffic studies use microscopic traffic simulations to create virtual environments that can model driver behavior to road changes with exacting detail. Instead, the Port Authority, under Gov. Chris Christie, shut down two of the three access lanes for four days last September from Fort Lee to the George Washington Bridge without warning the public, citing a 'traffic study.' 'I would be pretty confident that if we knew exactly which lanes are closed we could replicate that, and it would show exactly how bad the backups are going to be,' said Lorenzo Rotoli, an engineer and vice president at Fisher Associates, a civil engineering firm in New York that works on roads, bridges and signal systems."
This was a spiteful and petty act of retribution, pretty much much as reported already.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
He was studying how playing traffic god would impact his political career
It's pretty well understood to anyone following this story that there was no "traffic study". That was just the excuse given by someone when he was initially questioned about it. There's very little need to refute that argument at this point.
No, the real question is, has politics stooped so low that political staff (and possibly politicians) feel entitled to act like petulant little children and expect to get away with it?
And, if so, why is society prepared to live with their politicians and staff acting like such douchebags?
I don't care what political stripe you are, fucking with the traffic patterns to seek retribution against a political foe makes you an asshole.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
The real question is whether it ordered by a rogue official(s), or the governor himself. If information comes out that the governor was involved then he just lost himself a chance at being president.
I dunno, the way the media works it doesn't really make a difference. What I expect will happen is that this will quiet down, the media will support him until he gets the nomination, and then at the last moment they'll hammer on this to affect the outcome of the general. Christi pretty much doesn't have a chance at the white house, although it'll be entertaining to watch him try.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
If information comes out that the governor was involved then he just lost himself a chance at being president.
Even if he wasn't involved, if somehow we informed all of America, and if they all believed it in this day of partisanship, it would still be a huge problem for his Presidential chances. After all, what kind of an administration does he run where he hires people who are prone to this sort of petty political madness and who manage to pull it off without him getting a whiff of it?
One is malice and conspiracy. The other is somewhere between incompetence and bad judge of character. Neither looks good.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
When I was in college, my Analysis of Stochastic Systems class had a lot of assignments that required us to model traffic patterns in various ways. It was a great way to apply the math and theory we had learned. Fifteen years ago simulation software was pretty good, but with advances in computing power and the access to so much data, I imagine that modern simulations can be exceptionally accurate.
Unless, of course, the study was on road rage or something...
Christie is going to have to practice his lying skills if he wants to seriously be a contender for president. I mean, come on.. .Clinton.. the bushes.. Obama.. they gotta be looking at him as total j.v.
Or is this just because Christie is a republican. 2016 is starting early around here.
The democrat governor of MY state closed the DMVs in all the districts that voted in republican delegates. Didn't make the news at all. And now he's a U.S. Senator.
:wq
The dinosaurs conducted a real meteor study. Simulations are for those puny tree monkeys.
Table-ized A.I.
It was a "traffic study".
If you believed for one moment that it was an actual traffic study, I have a closed bridge to sell you.
"No, the real question is, has politics stooped so low that political staff (and possibly politicians) feel entitled to act like petulant little children and expect to get away with it?"
I hear there was a Chicago Alderman who was removed from office because he decided to get back at his ex-wife by defunding snow removal to her neighborhood...
"And, if so, why is society prepared to live with their politicians and staff acting like such douchebags?"
Because if we don't vote for our petulant douchebag, the wrong petulant douchebag might win.
A traffic road rage simulation? Hmmm, there are plenty of "angry rampage" games that could be adapted.
Table-ized A.I.
The problem is that the reasoning ability is low and the length of memory is short.
The same conundrum can be seen in Florida's governor, Rick Scott. He presided over a company involved in what was to that time the biggest Medicare fraud in U.S. history. He was either incompetent or a full fledged criminal. And what happens... people in Florida made his governor.
If people thought through things I would agree, but come vote type old Fat Farmer Joe is going to pull the lever marked "Republican Straight Ticket" because he bases all his votes on political stereotype or talking points. The fact that we have a malice vs incompetence conundrum is not going to matter to Farmer Joe because he's late for Hee-Haw.
The real question is whether it ordered by a rogue official(s), or the governor himself. If information comes out that the governor was involved then he just lost himself a chance at being president.
If Bush won, anybody can be president.
No, the real question is, has politics stooped so low that political staff (and possibly politicians) feel entitled to act like petulant little children and expect to get away with it?
This question has long since been answered. Anyone who follows local politics knows that this sort of thing is a daily occurrence. The difference is that most of these politicians don't have aspirations of being president, they just want all the perks and kickbacks that come with the position. So none of it ever gets the attention it deserves.
If you're stuck in a city or town that has voted in the same party for decades then there's corruption and nepotism on a level you can't even imagine. So the fact that it tricks up to state level isn't surprising at all. Sometimes it makes it all the way up to Federal government, but those guys are operating on a whole other level.
Your high falutin' traffic engineers don't give the Sopranos the contract to do traffic studies.
by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
"And, if so, why is society prepared to live with their politicians and staff acting like such douchebags?"
Because if they didn't vote for a lizard the wrong lizard might get in.
Like we haven't heard enough about the politics. Here's $5.00 for someone willing to actually talk about the science and technology that TFA is presenting.
Medicare fraud doesn't cause the same kind of visceral rage as forced traffic jams. Everyone hates being stuck in traffic, while almost nobody is directly impacted by fraud against the government.
``Eventually these models will get sophisticated enough to be able simulate "really odd driver behaviors"``
Well that doesn't explain car pool lanes, where the lane next to the carpool lane is full of people who go slow on the theory you can illegally pass them on the left. If the model could account for that, there'd be a lot fewer of the things.
For the curious: here is a link to Sumo, which is a real, scientific traffic simulation software developed by the DLR in Germany.
Computer simulation made easy -- LibGeoDecomp
Hey Slashdot, how about a "Local News That Doesn't Matter" or "American Regional Minutiae" section so we can filter stuff like this out?
Unless you're all interested in how the province I live in kinda forgot that you have to maintain bridges and as a result they're all (literally) falling down. Two out of three lanes? You've still got one left! Lucky bastards!
Well, yeah, that's not really the fault of the people. Game theory dictates that the kind of electoral system we have in the US pushes towards large, dissimilar alliances being able to capitalize on division of others into smaller groups. Political parties evolve and reproduce like a living thing, and success at elections drives that meme reproduction.
If you burned the two existing parties to the ground, made a law that said "you can't identify as democrat/republican, liberal/conservative, whatever" and somehow prevented the two from rising from the ashes you might get 2 different parties down the line, but there'd still be basically 2 parties.
It's a constitutional issue, and not a human one.
Another reason to talk about the "Bridgegate" scandal instead of, I dunno, real news like Obamacare, unemployment, our moribund economy, the ongoing blunders in foreign policy, NSA surveillance, etc.
Please, let's talk about Chris Christie some more.
-Styopa
what about some high speed EZ-pass lanes there that may help a lot.
No, the real question is, has politics stooped so low that political staff (and possibly politicians) feel entitled to act like petulant little children and expect to get away with it?
Yes it has. What do you think the IRS scandal was/is? At the very best the IRS scandal was almost exactly what Christie claims his "traffic study" was. Some appointed underling did something for the political advantage of their appointer in order to try and sway an election. Of course the person in charge "didn't know" and was "surprised to learn" that his appointee did it. I call it plausible deniability because it's very likely they actually didn't know, they just appointed people who just instinctively do stuff like this.
And, if so, why is society prepared to live with their politicians and staff acting like such douchebags?
I don't care what political stripe you are,
And slow rolling the tax approval of rival political groups is exactly the same kind of problem, albeit somehow more direct if you ask me. There is much to deride on both sides and the accepted political tactics they use.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Here you have somebody indicating that they use simulations to determine if lanes should be closed. The root cause is that there doesn't have to be a reason for the various transportation departments to close roads or lanes. In this case we all know this was political retribution but how many of the incessant lane closures on bridges and highways are just because of incompetence? We've been dealing with an ARRA funded road project for the past 5 years and they close lanes, redirect traffic, block access without any rhyme or reason. Fortunately it's close to being finished now but for the past 5 years it's been hell for people who have to travel in that area (airport). All this happening while on the other side of town they decide to blow up another interstate corridor not more than 5 years after disrupting the same corridor. These aren't about political retribution, these are about overly ambitious projects run by idiots who think that their simulation software takes into account a car with a flat tire blocking a lane because there's on emergency area, causing a backup for miles and putting people's lives at risk.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Good luck getting elected now ya meathead.
Look it, Christie is the closest thing the Reps have these days to someone who could get elected in the general election. And if the powers that be in the Rep party want him, they'll sell him to the Teabaggers and Evangelical crazies - all he has to be is not a Democrat. Trust me, no matter how disgusting the republican "base" may find him, they will vote for him over a Democrat ANY day! I have seen it.
I live in a Republican stronghold. I watched the Evangelicals vote for Romney - a MORMON - and a Massachusetts LIBERAL - just to vote Republican.
The poor Libertarians still had like 3% of the vote.
People are sheep and they'll vote for who we want them to vote for: Dem or Rep, they are our bitches.
-Bankers
Those are called "Laps"
Either way it is something Christie has never done.
Christie probably hasn't seen his lap (or anything in it) since the 6th grade.
---Ok, mean spirited, but I couldn't resist.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
There was another "study" to track guns by giving them to the Mexican gans and other criminal elements. All done for studies, here is the wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal I would also think that even simulation softare is not necessary to predict that there will be casualties. US Citizen, officer Brian Terry has died from this. Countless Mexicans have died and will die from this "study". U.S. government still had not briefed them on what went wrong nor had they apologized. At least Christie appologized, give him a credit for that.
Cristie would be even more toast than he is anyhow.
Seems goons like that are attracted to offices he got in which brings to mind why perhaps the NSA gets it's way because they have so much stuff to smear anyone and use that as leverage to get to play their little boys power games.
"No, the real question is, has politics stooped so low that political staff (and possibly politicians) feel entitled to act like petulant little children and expect to get away with it?"
I hear there was a Chicago Alderman who was removed from office because he decided to get back at his ex-wife by defunding snow removal to her neighborhood...
"And, if so, why is society prepared to live with their politicians and staff acting like such douchebags?"
Because if we don't vote for our petulant douchebag, the wrong petulant douchebag might win.
You might find this book an interesting read http://www.amazon.com/Boss-Richard-J-Daley-Chicago/dp/0452261678
It's been over 30 years since I first read it for poli-sci class and it seems politics will always be the same. It's about wielding power like a king.
Have a Day!
I don't care what political stripe you are, fucking with the traffic patterns to seek retribution against a political foe makes you an asshole.
Um, aren't "politician" and "asshole" synonymous?
The only soft wear they got in New Jersey are them velour track suits.
To quote another poster:
And this is a perfect example of how, if you repeat your false story enough times, people will believe it. The IRS office in question flagged groups from all over the political spectrum to determine if they were engaging in political activities that would prevent them from being tax exempt charities. Yes, they used "Tea Party" as a flag for further investigation, but they also used "Occupy". They were attempting to enforce the law passed by Congress, albeit in a very bad, possibly illegal way. For the record, they started these investigations after specific requests from Congress to make sure these nonprofits weren't breaking the law. But the House very carefully tailored their requests to make it appear that only conservative groups were targeted, and attempted to supress testimony that demonstrated groups from all over the spectrum were affected. Once the full testimony transcripts were released, the press realized there wasn't really much of a story and mostly dropped it. But low-information voters like you never bothered to follow the story to its end.
Except in the IRS scandal the IRS wasn't only targeting conservative groups like the talk-radio circuit would have you believe. They were equally targeting liberal groups filing tax exempt status while going about with political activites. In other words Fox and talk-radio friends left off the important fact that they were targeting all political activists both liberal and conservative that were filing for 501C4 status and then doing political activism. Apparently that is against the law.
people will point out all the evil shit you do. how rude!
Considering there are only three roads into Manhattan (many jobs) from Jersey (many residents), it is a big deal when someone intentionally fouls up the already terrible rush hour traffic on one of them.
It's also somewhat comical because this same Governor single handedly scuttled a shovel ready (and mostly paid for) project to build a new rail tunnel into Manhattan... it's almost like he wants to encourage residents to move to the same state they're employed in, which would *not* work out for Jersey at all...
As user braeldiil said above:
And this is a perfect example of how, if you repeat your false story enough times, people will believe it. The IRS office in question flagged groups from all over the political spectrum to determine if they were engaging in political activities that would prevent them from being tax exempt charities. Yes, they used "Tea Party" as a flag for further investigation, but they also used "Occupy". They were attempting to enforce the law passed by Congress, albeit in a very bad, possibly illegal way. For the record, they started these investigations after specific requests from Congress to make sure these nonprofits weren't breaking the law. But the House very carefully tailored their requests to make it appear that only conservative groups were targeted, and attempted to suppress testimony that demonstrated groups from all over the spectrum were affected. Once the full testimony transcripts were released, the press realized there wasn't really much of a story and mostly dropped it. But low-information voters like you never bothered to follow the story to its end.
You've never seen him with an ice cream cone.
rewriting history since 2109
this is a regional story with a national scope, as christie was and may still be considered the frontrunner for 2016 republican presidential primary, as well as being an influential governor in the republican party currently. Also it's a 14 lane bridge, and apparently one of the busiest bridges in the world, carrying something like a quarter of a million drivers per day... which would be something like making everybody in Windsor, Ontario (pop. 276k) take a 4 hour time-out per day.
276k vehicles on average, daily. sounds parochial.
I hear there was a Chicago Alderman who was removed from office because he decided to get back at his ex-wife by defunding snow removal to her neighborhood...
That simply means he didn't realize she still had more connections than he did.
My understanding from my Chicago acquaintances is that snow removal and pothole repair are two significant political tools.
Your naivete would be cute if you were 6 and an innocent child.
In an adult, it's just sad.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
At least in Chicago someone fixes a pothole occasionally. This doesn't happen in Washington DC; here people admire the federal government because next to the local government it looks like the model of efficiency and honor.
Did you forget they were targeting not just "Tea Party" but "Occupy" groups as well? Oh that part is conveniently forgotten? Gotcha. Sounds like they were targeting political groups claiming to be non profits so they could influence elections with little oversight. Frankly it sounds like they were doing their job.
And, if so, why is society prepared to live with their politicians and staff acting like such douchebags?
Consider for a moment what it takes to get elected as governor of one of the big populous states, or as President. The media is going to go back through most of your adult life with a fine-tooth comb. They're going to demand that you explain anything of potential interest in your tax returns. If you stumble over the wording in a speech, the tenth or twelfth time you've given it and you're sick of it, the stumble will be analyzed to death. You'll be called all sorts of vile things. If you're married, your spouse will probably get called names also. And then there's the fundraising bullshit... someone you can't stand offers the campaign a million dollars, and you have to play nice with them.
The kind of people that you (and I) would like to see in public office, who worry about doing the right things by their state/country, run screaming from even the idea of putting themselves and their family through the process.
The closure was over four days. It is not believable that Christie was unaware of this the entire time.
FYI that's false. The Obama administration said that for about 26 hours before they started walking back that claim.
Within hours after they said it, someone did the math and it showed that conservative groups were referred about 80 times as often as liberal groups.
That's kind of like claiming there was no racial bias in 1940s West Virginia because while there were thousands of black people in prison, there were also three white guys.
Depends on what you think their "job" was. Stopping mostly conservative groups from getting their non-profit tax status by "investigating them closer" then I guess they accomplished their task. LOL And this really wasn't a "short cut" it was singling out certain groups for a more detailed review which seems to be adding to the work load to me.
Look, it may not have been *everybody's* intent to obstruct mostly right leaning groups, but that was the net result. But there are those who knew full well that was going to be the results of the policy.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Have gnu, will travel.
Never claimed the IRS rules where only hitting conservative groups. If you read closely, I'm claiming that the sorting rules where biased towards and caused more right leaning groups to get additional scrutiny than left leaning ones.
BTW... I didn't hear any of the more popular right/conservative talk show hosts claim that there was zero effect on the left leaning groups either. They all where clear that the sort criteria caught both right and left groups. But it is also clear that the majority of the applications which where delayed by further review where conservative/right groups, which I believe was the intent IMHO.
So, the net result was a suppression of conservative/Right groups. As intended IMHO.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Aside from being a great excuse for anything secretive, not all "traffic studies" can be simulated. For example, if you were testing new traffic simulation software, you can't simulate your own authentication. Trust but verify.
What really marks it as a thoughtless childish outburst is this: If it was supposed to be payback for the Fort Lee mayor’s non-endorsement, how does punishing everyone trying to get over the bridge specifically punish him? Fort Lee residents represent a miniscule fraction of bridge traffic, and drivers aren’t going to blame the nearest mayor when they see some Port Authority snafu.
It's not really. It's local news. It seems very important to people who live there and have to drive on that road I'm sure, but it matters not a bit to anybody else.
Seriously? Some dude who *might* some day run for president of a country makes a random, non-tech related, screwup, and you think it's a story of national importance, never mind deserving to be posted on Slashdot?
Use it as a (very brief) introduction to a story on the technology behind traffic simulation, sure. Otherwise stick it in some local news category so people who don't care can filter it out. Even the actual US election coverage gets put in a subcategory that the rest of us can either ignore or make popcorn before reading.
What do you mean stooped so low? Politics started lower than that and has slowly been working its way up to this level over the millenia.
Well, start with whether the results agree with common sense. If you close 2/3 of the lanes serving Fort Lee, then traffic coming up Routes 1 and 9 backs up onto the streets of Fort Lee and you get a slight improvement for through traffic coming up I-95. The actions taken were so drastic it doesn't take an expert to predict the consequences -- which is why the "study" was so fishy.
But suppose you have a legitimate need to be absolutely sure what would happen if you did something so boneheaded as close 2/3 of the traffic in a major artery that flows through the streets of a 3 square mile town. Then run your model, and shut down *one* lane for *one* hour to see if your model predicts correctly. Or shut down both lanes for a full day, if the information is absolutely critical to operations (which nobody argues it was). But don't run the experiment for *five* days, when all it is telling you is what common sense and a gas station map could tell you.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
The Democrats and media wouldn't be going on all-out attack mode for no reason. The reason is obviously that they need to create enough of a scandal to torpedo his 2016 presidential chances to let Hillary ride to the win. From now until then they'll be attacking him mercilessly as long as they think he may run, or they've destroyed him. A centrist Republican who can appeal to the average Democrat is too dangerous.
Not that I would ever vote for Christie myself were he to run, but it is an interesting dynamic to watch in our politics and media.
Well considering the Tea Party considers itself a political group, looking at groups with "Tea Party" in the same seems pretty logical. They also looked at more left-leaning groups with names that included "Progressive" or "Occupy", so the net result wasn't just right wing groups The IRS's job was to investigate all the groups, but they don't have the resources to do it. If the "mostly conservative" groups weren't getting non-profit status because of the investigations, then they were likely breaking the law since a legitimate non-profit would have no trouble.
Actually no that is not the net result. The net result is a supression of liberal groups because while some of the conservative groups got delayed none were denied. However they did deny some of the liberal/progressive groups. Again you won't hear that on the talk-radio circuit because they leave out the part where liberals/progressives were also affected and even more affected than the conservatives groups. I know...facts can mess up a soap box. But these are facts. and they are undenyable.
I worked with traffic engineers on traffic studies in the 1990s. The objective was to measure traffic behaviour and feed the resulting data into models. You don't change traffic flow for a study because that would invalidate the model.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
But these are facts. and they are undenyable.
Remember that the *claim* here is that the IRS with it's sorting criteria, had an effect on a presidential election by suppressing one side's views over another side. The effect of the investigation delays is undeniable and obviously slanted IMHO. Clearly it impacted one side over the other in the election. That the *eventual* results of these investigations didn't mirror the initial sort criteria, only adds to my claim that the criteria where politically motivated and intended to help sway the election. So we are not claiming there is an issue with the *final* results, only that the delays imposed are the problem. But of course, the left wants to change the issue to something else.
The administration's attempt to explain this away, really doesn't work, if you look at the net result at the time of the election. Clearly the IRS sorting disadvantaged one side over the other. Which is exactly what I understood from the right wing pundants at the time this all came out and what the bulk of them have been saying about this. It's always been about the delays caused by the extended investigations and not about the eventual decisions. In fact, when this story first broke, the final decisions hadn't yet been made in many cases in a group of cases which obviously where biased so there was no way to argue a bias in final approvals. It's always been about the delay and not final decisions.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
woops, you're right of course... sometimes i forget that slashdot is supposed to be about tech. but it is a national story about the nation with the highest GDP in the world... so. I mean, i'm pretty sure most people cared about what was going on with the british back in the day, even outside of europe. But i concede your point, it doesn't belong on slashdot.
"That simply means he didn't realize she still had more connections than he did."
Or someone in her neighborhood did.