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Starbucks Phone App Stores Password Unencrypted

JThaddeus writes "The Daily Caller reports a serious security flaw in the Starbucks phone app: 'Starbucks confirmed late Tuesday that anyone could access the unencrypted data stored on the official Starbucks app simply by connecting the phone to a computer – bypassing lock screen or PIN security features with no hacking or jailbreaking necessary.' The linked report is for iOS. No mention of Android, but do you think it is any different?" (Starbucks says they've addressed the problem.)

137 comments

  1. When will companies be held liable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When will companies be held liable for implementing incompetent security (or not implementing it all)?

    The marketing weenies are all over getting the brand out, but don't give a shit about security.

    Companies should be getting fined for crap like this. Between data beaches and gross incompetence at any form of security, trusting a marketing app is the height of stupid.

    1. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Never. Per the last few hundred years of legal precedent, the companies are the victims. It's in the same category as leaving a house unlocked. Legally, the person at fault is the one who decided to abuse the flaw and access information they aren't supposed to.

      There is a case for negligence, but that requires that the negligent party be unreasonably incompetent, and at the moment, most companies with these kind of security problems are performing on par with most of America - the non-techies who don't understand security.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    2. Re:When will companies be held liable? by mlts · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Inductive reasoning states never.

      Look at historic security breaches in the past that resulted in massive data compromise. Most companies that were breached are back to their stock norms, or perhaps even higher [1] a few quarters after the incident. Couple this with the belief that security has no ROI...

      I wouldn't expect anything to change anytime soon.

      [1]: I remember being told by an MBA that all press is good press, so a security breach is still getting a company name in front of people's eyes/ears where they may never have gotten with normal advertising methods.

    3. Re:When will companies be held liable? by geogob · · Score: 2

      Never. Per the last few hundred years of legal precedent, the companies are the victims. It's in the same category as leaving a house unlocked. Legally, the person at fault is the one who decided to abuse the flaw and access information they aren't supposed to.

      Have fun trying to sell that to your insurance company.

    4. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If someone rented an apartment with faulty door locks and got burglarized/assaulted/killed you can bet there would be a negligence suit filed against the property managers.

    5. Re:When will companies be held liable? by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      but that requires that the negligent party be unreasonably incompetent

      Oh, I don't know ... storing passwords in plain text sounds pretty unreasonably incompetent since we've known for 30+ years it's a stupid idea.

      It's not like there should be anybody who doesn't know that yet. At least not anybody you should be trusting to write code.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    6. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Penguinisto · · Score: 1

      Well, it depends on the results. I've never used the app*, but...

      If the result is that you get to share in the user's freebie downloads and coupons, then it's Starbucks' problem, and they can eat the results for all I care.

      If the result is a compromise of the user's CC info, then yeah, Starbucks needs to not only eat that cost, but forced to eat any associated costs that the ID theft brings about, and then compensate every user generously for his/her time and trouble.

      I guess what I'm getting at is this - if the app stores nothing critical to the user (financial info, etc), then fuggit - that's the app maker's problem, and security is not a big deal. But, if the app stores something critical to the user (privacy/HIPAA info, financial info, etc), then the utmost care should be enforced.

      * On the personal/user side, this should teach some good lessons as well:
      1) I don't have a phone/tablet full of frivolous, stupid-assed apps. Maybe folks will figure this out too?
      2) I don't store my financial info on the damned things either.
      3) I live in Portland - why the hell would I bother with some corporate chain's coffee when there's way better to be had locally? Maybe it's time people stopped being such sheep about it and seek out the local alternatives if they can be had?

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    7. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Flatwater · · Score: 2

      I suspect that if you read the EULA you clicked through, not only did you agree not to hold them liable for their crappy software, you also gave them permission to burn down your house and shoot your dog.

    8. Re:When will companies be held liable? by alen · · Score: 0

      from what i read it was only in a log file, not the part where it authorizes your CC
      relax

      someone would have to steal your phone to take the data off. and anyone on ios 7 which is more iphone users will have find my iphone enabled and will send a remote wipe command.

      or just change your passwords once you lose your phone and problem solved

    9. Re:When will companies be held liable? by aviators99 · · Score: 2

      There is a case for negligence

      Not if there are no damages. I don't see anything about anyone losing money yet.

    10. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In Quebec, you can get a ticket for leaving your car doors unlocked in public parking lot. To be sure there's no place for discussion, they place the ticket on the dashboard and lock the doors on their way out.

    11. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So this story means new people are hearing about Starbucks for the first time?

    12. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't know where you live, but throughout most of the world content insurance covers theft.

      Both break and enter as well as trespassing don't require the door to be locked. Theft doesn't depend on either of the above cases to be met (if your ladder sticks up over your fence, or your lawnmower is sitting on public land (an easement), or your door mat is sitting outside an apartment unit in a common space, theft is still "depriving someone of lawfully acquired property without the permission of the owner nor the intention to return the item without damage or use".

      Content insurance is optional for MOST insurance plans, but that doesn't for a second mean it's "not available".

      If a thief walked into your home and jacked a TV because a window was left unlocked, and your insurance company denied the claim on those grounds, it's time to change to a new insurance company. They may ask that you do something to prevent such issues from occurring in the future ELSE your rates may go up, but they cannot deny a claim unless they can prove intentional negligence on the owner's part (like hanging a "free" sign on something and wondering why it went missing)

    13. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Antipater · · Score: 2

      Not the company, the app. I know my first thoughts when seeing this story were "Starbucks has an app? What? Why?"

      --
      Everything is better with chainsaws.
    14. Re:When will companies be held liable? by immaterial · · Score: 1

      Did insurance companies become the law while I wasn't looking?

    15. Re:When will companies be held liable? by khr · · Score: 1

      So this story means new people are hearing about Starbucks for the first time?

      Not necessarily for the first time. I wasn't thinking at all about coffee, but now there's an article about a big coffee vendor, so it comes to mind. Maybe I'll stop in on my way home, since I walk past several... (but who am I kidding, they're always crowded and I've never ordered coffee on my own before, so I'm not sure I know how to do that without making a fool of myself...)

    16. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Aaden42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Before you have grounds for a suit based on liability, you have to show harm that wasn’t already reimbursed by anyone who you might seek to hold liable.

      There’s no “harm” done to you by having your password stored in the clear on your device. If someone got that password, used it to run up charges on your account, then there’s harm done. If Starbucks policy results in you being refunded and not being held accountable for those charges, then there’s still no harm. You’ve already been made whole in monetary terms before any legal proceeding might have commenced, QED no grounds for any legal proceeding.

      Also, as others have pointed out, the harm isn’t actually perpetrated by Starbucks in this case. It’s done by whoever got your phone, extracted the password, and used it for mayhem. A defense attorney for Starbucks would make a (rather valid IMHO) argument that by allowing someone else to take your phone and plug it into their computer, you failed to take reasonable actions to secure your own system. At best, Starbucks is responsible for only a portion of the liability, and then you’re talking civil juries deciding percentages of fault to assign damages.

      I do think the “left your house unlocked, got robbed” analogy is a bit off for this though. As far as the user could reasonably know, setting a lock code on your phone should be enough to qualify as “locking the house.” Unbeknownst to the user/homeowner, there was a flaw in the lock that allowed it to be trivially picked even if it was properly locked. Some liability is due the lock maker in this case, as it could be reasonably argued the product wasn’t fit for the purpose it was sold. I don’t think that applies quite as cleanly to Starbucks in this case as 1) the app is free (not sold), and 2) the app’s purpose for which it’s marketed isn’t to keep your password secure. That’s something one might expect/hope of it, but it’s a stretch to turn that expectation into grounds for a lawsuit.

      The harm in any such case is likely to be well below that of the legal fees to pursue it unless you manage to get them on some statutory minimum penalties (in excess of the actual value of the harm) or turn it into a class action which would require significant numbers of people who were actually harmed (their passwords were used). I’m not aware of any such statute for something like this. Maybe some kind of treble damages thing for gross negligence, but you’re still talking triple the cost of a couple of cups of coffee, so not something worth suing over. Given how trivially, stupidly easy it is in iOS to store a password like this in Keychain in such a way that it can’t be dumped by simply plugging in the device, calling this gross negligence isn’t much of a stretch.

      The only way to fix something like this would be to pass new legislation that specifically creates a tort for the act of storing user’s credentials (or perhaps PII in general) in an insecure manner. I’d personally like to see that done, but the details of how to define “a secure manner” and what information should be covered would take a lot of work to hash to prevent loopholes or making it so onerous that developers couldn’t actually comply with it for any non-trivial app.

    17. Re:When will companies be held liable? by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

      Why would anyone use a Starbucks app? My guess is that the security hole affected at most two people: The Starbucks marketing manager who wanted it and the guy who developed it.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    18. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes

    19. Re:When will companies be held liable? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      "Starbucks has an app? What? Why?"

      Marketing, and collecting consumer information. Exactly what most apps are for these days.

      Sure, you might get a small discount now and then, but the treasure trove of marketing data is worth far more than that discount is.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    20. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Jason+Levine · · Score: 3, Informative

      I can't speak to the iOS installations, but Google Play reports that the Starbucks app has between 1 million and 5 million installs: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.starbucks.mobilecard

      If iOS has a similar installation base, we're talking somewhere between 1 million and 10 million affected users.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    21. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When will companies be held liable for implementing incompetent security (or not implementing it all)?

      The marketing weenies are all over getting the brand out, but don't give a shit about security.

      Companies should be getting fined for crap like this. Between data beaches and gross incompetence at any form of security, trusting a marketing app is the height of stupid.

      Fined? For what, a lack of a security breach?

      Are you about to punish me for something my software...might do?

      As much as I'd like to see stronger security standards, I hope you get my point here. Punishing companies or people for non-events is a dangerous slope, but let me know as soon as that becomes the norm. I'll go get my PhD in FUD and become a fucking rock star.

      And if trusting a marketing app is the height of stupid, then please let me know which one of those apps isn't a fucking marketing app, because I'm feeling awfully fucking stupid over here with the current batch of marketing crap installed by default.

    22. Re:When will companies be held liable? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Before you have grounds for a suit based on liability, you have to show harm that wasn’t already reimbursed by anyone who you might seek to hold liable.

      Typically, you'd acquire a coffee shop's grounds from their refuse receptacle, but, as Starbucks is known to recycle their grounds, that might make holding them liable for anything slightly more difficult.

      And yes, I'm going for a "Funny" mod here.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    23. Re:When will companies be held liable? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Did insurance companies become the law while I wasn't looking?

      No, but they've been known to deny coverage if they can find any little thing which they can blame on you.

      Insurance companies aren't exactly known for playing nice in a lot of cases.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    24. Re:When will companies be held liable? by sunderland56 · · Score: 1

      There is a case for negligence, but that requires that the negligent party be unreasonably incompetent

      It's 2014. Anyone who stores data unencrypted *IS* unreasonably incompetent.

      Starbucks says they've addressed it - but unless they've fired everyone involved (including the managers), they really have not.

    25. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Companies will be held liable when software engineers are held to the same ethical and responsibility level as licensed professional engineers. But expect the cost of software to go up exponentially.

    26. Re:When will companies be held liable? by immaterial · · Score: 1

      Grandparents were discussing legal liability.

    27. Re:When will companies be held liable? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Grandparents were discussing legal liability.

      Correct, but doing it in such a way as to imply that insurance companies care about legal liability, when in fact they only care about their own liability -- if they can get away with denying you coverage they will.

      Even if 'technically' the legal liability was with whoever went into your unlocked house.

      In other words, legal liability can be detached from what insurance companies are willing to accept, and being right on an abstract point is immaterial. ;-)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    28. Re:When will companies be held liable? by timmyf2371 · · Score: 1

      My main reason for using the Starbucks app is so that I don't have yet another card taking up space in my wallet (by using a Starbucks card you get a free drink every so often, as well as eligibility for gold membership which gives you free syrups and extra shots).

      More importantly though, why do you think this only affected two people? Even computer novices know how to use a smartphone and I think you would be surprised at how often I see some old geezer using an app to pay for something or check in somewhere.

      --

      Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic
    29. Re:When will companies be held liable? by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's in the same category as leaving a house unlocked.

      That analogy is incorrect. In a correct analogy, the locksmith installed a lock that he swore up and down would protect your home, you locked the door thinking you were fine, and then somebody came in and stole a bunch of things. And that would in fact make the locksmith liable, especially if there was a written guarantee on the lock and the locksmith's work (but even if not, there's the implied warranty of merchantability that says that he's still liable).

      And as soon as you look at the case that way, Starbucks is being negligent, just like the locksmith was in our analogous scenario. The key factor here is that the victim of the crime is not the person who left themselves vulnerable to it through their own stupidity.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    30. Re:When will companies be held liable? by TheloniousToady · · Score: 1

      If Starbucks offers no grounds for a suit based on liability, at least a tailor's shop is grounds for a suit based on wool.

      (I'm going for "Funny" too, but neither one of us is likely to get it. :-)

    31. Re:When will companies be held liable? by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      However, that isn't really the end of the story is it? After a claim or two it isn't unheard of for an insurance company to drop a customer, or raise rates. It also isn't unheard of for Insurance companies to mandate their customers comply with standards higher than that of legal obligation.

      Seems to me it would be perfectly legitimate for an insurance company which insures a company that is distributing software to take appropriate precautions commensurate with industry best practices or else void their policy.

      If you want an example of this, many films often license all music clips they use, regardless of whether the length or context would actually require it legally, because the insurance companies will not insure the film producers otherwise.

      "Oh you you are being sued over a loss due to software you released which didn't encrypt stored passwords"
      "That is correct"
      "You are not covered for that; and now your policy is cancelled. Have a nice day."
      "Wait; Do you have a policy for that?"
      "Yes we do sir, our policy is not to do business with reckless idiots. Can I help you with anything else today?"

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    32. Re:When will companies be held liable? by hjf · · Score: 1

      Don't most cars unlock the door if you lock from inside first, and then close the door? Pretty sure at least the driver's door unlocks if you close it locked.

    33. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Source please. That's an incredibly stupid and pointless law if it's true.

    34. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Daniel+Hoffmann · · Score: 1

      After some experience with the industry I have come to the conclusion that a lot (but not nearly enough) of the devs actually do know that the stuff they build is insecure. But usually it comes down to some situations:
      "Meh, this is not really that important to spend so much time securing",
      "My boss is on my ass to finish this fast" or "I have a deadline to meet",
      "If I get this done really fast I will win some points with the boss and maybe get a good review",
      "I do know I should encrypt this password, but I never done it before and I'm too lazy to look it up how to do it properly".

    35. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Mashdar · · Score: 1

      With the general level of incompetence I have seen in electrical/electronic/software engineers and cs guys, I would say most people have no clue how bad their code is for security. Unless the industry somehow finds a segment of the workforce I've magically never met, I'd say they are boned because they didn't shell out the big bucks.

    36. Re:When will companies be held liable? by lgw · · Score: 1

      Insurance companies aren't exactly known for playing nice in a lot of cases.

      Which is why "suing insurance companies" is the national sport of the American court system.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    37. Re:When will companies be held liable? by immaterial · · Score: 1
      There was no implication about insurance companies at all, because there was no discussion of insurance companies at all; just government fines. Complete text of the original posts:

      When will companies be held liable for implementing incompetent security (or not implementing it all)? The marketing weenies are all over getting the brand out, but don't give a shit about security. Companies should be getting fined for crap like this. Between data beaches and gross incompetence at any form of security, trusting a marketing app is the height of stupid.

      Never. Per the last few hundred years of legal precedent, the companies are the victims. It's in the same category as leaving a house unlocked. Legally, the person at fault is the one who decided to abuse the flaw and access information they aren't supposed to. There is a case for negligence, but that requires that the negligent party be unreasonably incompetent, and at the moment, most companies with these kind of security problems are performing on par with most of America - the non-techies who don't understand security.

      Now, whether they're correct or not I cannot say. But they were discussing government fines, nothing to do with insurance at all. That's not an abstract point, that's the facts of the conversation.

    38. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And they would lose.

    39. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, it's true. And not just in Canada... I've seen places in the USA with the same set of rules to prevent auto theft. Just remember, it's still illegal to steal an auto, even if the doors are unlocked and the keys are in the ignition.

    40. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      as well as eligibility for gold membership which gives you free syrups and extra shots

      Free flavors and extra shots went away a year or two ago. The only gold level reward now is the free drink for every 12 purchases, but only after you've made the 30 purchases required to get to the gold level. It's a pretty crap reward program these days. The basic "green" level membership gives you a free birthday drink only.

    41. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Australia there's rules that are worse:

      Under Queensland law, if a driver is more than three metres from their car, the vehicle must be "secured" with the engine off, hand brake applied, ignition key removed (if no one over 16 years remains in vehicle) and windows up with a gap no more than 5cm.

      In NSW, the three metres rule insists if there is no one in the vehicle, you must have removed the ignition key and locked all doors and windows.

      And yes, there are people getting booked for these every day.

    42. Re:When will companies be held liable? by kwbauer · · Score: 1

      So sue them for all the harm caused by someone possibly knowing what your favorite overpriced beverage is.

    43. Re:When will companies be held liable? by alostpacket · · Score: 1

      Indeed it's called "top of mind" and it's an old, old marketing tactic with the pinnacle being Kleenex, band-aid, coke, etc.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-of-mind_awareness

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brand_awareness

      --
      PocketPermissions Android Permission Guide
    44. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      I can't believe the insurance company can weasel their way out of paying if you are insured for it at the time of the unfortunate event. That's just wrong.
      Of course they can kick you out. That doesn't change the fact that the theft or whatever happened while you were insured and thus they have to pay.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    45. Re:When will companies be held liable? by idji · · Score: 1

      Is there a genuinely secure mechanism for an app to store a password internally? I imagine they mostly just store an encrypted version of the password using a standard algorithm with an fixed "unknown" key/salt in the code. Isn't this just an example of security through obscurity?

    46. Re:When will companies be held liable? by Daniel+Hoffmann · · Score: 1

      You might be right, but I rather live with my naivety.

    47. Re:When will companies be held liable? by ciotog · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily, credentials are often stored in plain text but in restricted access files. The Debian MySQL admin password, for example, is stored plain-text in /etc/mysql/debian.cnf This might be of some interest as well: https://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/PlainTextPasswords

    48. Re:When will companies be held liable? by easyTree · · Score: 1

      I shot my dog already - myself - did I break the EULA?

    49. Re:When will companies be held liable? by easyTree · · Score: 1

      One can only speculate whether the sole purpose of the app is to host the exploit, the reporting of which they can use to increase their brand awareness - any press is good press and if you're prepared to pay someone a hundred times what it cost to do the thing yourself in a tenth the time, without leaving your office or walking through the streets looking like a meth-head and then on the return journey, like a soon-to-be-happy meth-head carrying your litre of meth, do you really give a fuck about security ? I propose: "No, you don't."

      Disclaimer, I haven't read the summary, the article (assuming there is one) or looked at the app although I did once try their coffee.

  2. Bad Coffee, Bad App by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What's the difference? Patronize a local shop that doesn't over-roast the coffee.

    1. Re:Bad Coffee, Bad App by malakai · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Love my mocha's. Can't tell you how many times I got to a 'local' coffee house and get a crap mocha. Some like to put store bought chocolate syrup in it, others like to add a mocha powder without first turning it into a wet paste. I've had Swiss Miss packets added to a late and told this was their 'Cafe Mocha'.

      All in all, I can count on one hand the number of good cafe mocha's I've had at 'local' coffee houses.

      On the other hand, every Starbucks I got into, anywhere in the world, seems to have the same Cafe Mocha. It's as if they had a recipe and the barista's were trained to make it. I like being in a town for the first time in my life, finding a Starbucks and feeling a little bit like being at home.

      In the end, I reward any store on it's quality, I don't stereotype a store based on it's number of locations or perceived local community value. Would you patron a crap restaurant just because it's "local"?

    2. Re:Bad Coffee, Bad App by hawguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Love my mocha's. Can't tell you how many times I got to a 'local' coffee house and get a crap mocha. Some like to put store bought chocolate syrup in it, others like to add a mocha powder without first turning it into a wet paste. I've had Swiss Miss packets added to a late and told this was their 'Cafe Mocha'.

      All in all, I can count on one hand the number of good cafe mocha's I've had at 'local' coffee houses.

      On the other hand, every Starbucks I got into, anywhere in the world, seems to have the same Cafe Mocha. It's as if they had a recipe and the barista's were trained to make it. I like being in a town for the first time in my life, finding a Starbucks and feeling a little bit like being at home.

      In the end, I reward any store on it's quality, I don't stereotype a store based on it's number of locations or perceived local community value. Would you patron a crap restaurant just because it's "local"?

      I think you are confusing quality with consistency... At Starbucks you are getting a known quality, it may not always be the best but its always the same. Independent places can be hit and mis, but usually once you find one that makes a product you like, its always good there. I have a good number of coffee shop choices and I go to one for a good latte and another for a good iced coffee (with coffee ice cubes too). But when I travel I usually go to Starbucks because I know its the same everywhere.

    3. Re:Bad Coffee, Bad App by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      Yep.

      Why on earth would anybody need a "Starbucks App". With sensitive information in it, and a password.

      What information is there to hack? If it's anything more than where the nearest store is and you coffee preference then you're DOING IT WRONG.

      --
      No sig today...
    4. Re:Bad Coffee, Bad App by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Love my mocha's.

      Fag.

    5. Re:Bad Coffee, Bad App by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      At Starbucks you are getting a known quality, it may not always be the best but its always the same. Independent places can be hit and mis, but usually once you find one that makes a product you like, its always good there.

      Independent places, in my experience, tend to be hit-or-miss at all scales... from the store, to the shift, to the barista/cook/whatever actually doing the work when you place your order.

    6. Re:Bad Coffee, Bad App by Grizzley9 · · Score: 1

      Edit: replace mocha with hamburgers and Starbucks with McDonalds. Sometimes you don't want risk and just trust the consistency of a large brand. (not that I would approve of either company in this case) But consistency isn't quality.

    7. Re:Bad Coffee, Bad App by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      The three most important things are McDonald's are consistency, consistency and consistency.

      Although their international preparations change, fat contents of beef vary, and vegetables are often locally sourced, a Big Mac is a Big Mac is a Big Mac in pretty much every English speaking store on the planet, and the one you get on Tuesday will be made exactly the same was on Sunday.

    8. Re:Bad Coffee, Bad App by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today!

  3. Hard to have this happen on Android... by mlts · · Score: 3, Interesting

    On Android, a phone will appear as a storage device or camera, unless someone enables debugging and authorizes a computer with its individual key to connect.

    I don't see how an app could get data to a computer from a locked Android device unless the app managed to get itself root, or there was some other trick to break into the Android device (physical dumping the RAM), and if an attacker is that sophisticated, pretty much what an app tries to do for security is pointless.

    1. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      The flaw is apparently exposed by the crash reporting software on iOS; not sure why Android would be protected inherently.

    2. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by Sockatume · · Score: 0

      To use an Android analogy, they were storing the passwords etc. in plain text on the phone's memory card with the app's data files, so when the phone was connected to a computer and was mounted as a storage device, it was completely trivial to read it. The developers seemed to assume that because their app can't read any other app's folders (sandboxing), those folders were completely inaccessible to anything but the app that they belong to. Unfortunately that whole space is mounted and made available to the host PC every time the iPhone is plugged in. You can use iFunbox etc. to screw around in those folders to your heart's content. (Which is actually useful if you want to back up a save file or something.)

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    3. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is wrong and should be ignored. It's not stored unencrypted in the app's data folders; it's sent unencrypted to the debug log, which is also readable to anyone on the host PC.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    4. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by immaterial · · Score: 2

      The summary is wrong. If you dig back to the original ComputerWorld article, it says, "The credentials were stored in such a way that anyone with access to the phone can see the passwords and usernames by connecting the phone to a PC. No jailbreaking of the phone is necessary." Nothing about bypassing the pin in a locked phone like the summary or shitty article the summary links to; you have to connect the phone to a computer, have it unlocked, and allow the computer access to the phone (this applies to iOS as well as Android). Even the ComputerWorld article's mention of jailbreaking is a bit of a non-sequitur.

    5. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by swinefc · · Score: 2

      iOS is actually very similar. Without an application like PhoneView or Xcode, just connecting a device will not provide obvious access to per application data that is not explicitly shared. If the device is locked, then access is unavailable even to those methods. If the application itself requested data protection, then even physical access to the flash chips would prove useless. Of course, a developer who decided to store everything in plain text would probably not take the extra strep to request encryption. I just wonder why they didn't use the system Keychain. Easy to use and the OS takes care of all these problems.

      Android question... I realize that an app by default doesn't have access to other app's per user data, but can an app request root or access an other's data in a permissions request presented to the user? My concern with Android security has always been that lay people do not read or even understand the implications of permission dialogs presented to them. So, could another malicious app gain access to the Starbucks data through laziness or ignorance of the user?
       

    6. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by immaterial · · Score: 3, Informative
      My mistake - I didn't notice the CW article had multiple pages (derp). It does say this:

      Do you feel secure because you use PIN protection on your phone? You shouldn't, says Wood. "You don't need a user's PIN in order to pull raw data off the phone using the tool and methods I have used," he said. "So if a user's phone is stolen, regardless of being PIN-protected, you are able to bypass that and access the apps Library/Cache and pull the session.clslog file."

      However, I don't buy it. If this researcher has found a way to bypass the hardware encryption on a locked iOS device, that sounds like a bigger and more interesting security hole than one in a shitty Starbucks app.

    7. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by girlintraining · · Score: 0

      I don't see how an app could get data to a computer from a locked Android device unless the app managed to get itself root, or there was some other trick to break into the Android device (physical dumping the RAM), and if an attacker is that sophisticated, pretty much what an app tries to do for security is pointless.

      That doesn't seem terribly convenient. Why don't they do it like Apple does? /snark

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    8. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      iOS is actually very similar. Without an application like PhoneView or Xcode, just connecting a device will not provide obvious access to per application data that is not explicitly shared. If the device is locked, then access is unavailable even to those methods. If the application itself requested data protection, then even physical access to the flash chips would prove useless. Of course, a developer who decided to store everything in plain text would probably not take the extra strep to request encryption. I just wonder why they didn't use the system Keychain. Easy to use and the OS takes care of all these problems.

      First, everything is always encrypted on the iPhone. With no passcode, that doesn't help much because the iPhone itself can read the data. With passcode set, the iPhone needs the passcode to read the data and no way around that. In addition, apps can request that a file is encrypted with a different key, which means the passcode needs to be entered _for that file_. And there's the keychain of course.

      Security risks are: Unencrypted backups to iTunes (there's a switch "encrypt backups". Turn it on). And as the case here, crash reporting or logging software that leaks information. Or having a phone without passcode.

    9. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, we all know that Android & Linux have no vulnerabilities.

    10. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by immaterial · · Score: 2

      "If this post is marked Troll, I pissed off a fanboy again." Or maybe you made a snarky post falsely implying Apple doesn't do exactly the same thing, even though they do?

    11. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      However, I don't buy it. If this researcher has found a way to bypass the hardware encryption on a locked iOS device, that sounds like a bigger and more interesting security hole than one in a shitty Starbucks app.

      Ummm ... except law enforcement has been able to do this for some time now.

      I think it's even been covered here -- I didn't think it was news.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    12. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      which is also readable to anyone on the host PC.

      So that's what is meant by "bypassing lock screen or PIN security features"?

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    13. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by swinefc · · Score: 1

      Thank you. I didn't realize device specific keys are fused into the processor itself. This would, of course, render my comment about access to the flash chips incorrect.

      Storing it in the keychain (with the correct protection class) would prevent access even for an unencrypted backup.

      Also, specifically asking for per file data protection would prevent access for an unencrypted backup.

      Basically, doing anything other than the bare minimum would have prevented access to the Starbucks data.

      Does anyone have any answers for my Android question?

    14. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by girlintraining · · Score: 1

      "If this post is marked Troll, I pissed off a fanboy again." Or maybe you made a snarky post falsely implying Apple doesn't do exactly the same thing, even though they do?

      Except they don't. Plug in an iPhone and it'll immediately dump its guts to whatever its connected to without requiring interaction with the device itself. It does this by default. Android does not.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    15. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by Bungie · · Score: 1

      As far as I know you cannot have an application request root on Android unless it's jailbroken. Only a few system apps have root access (like play store). Once the device is jailbroken there is a system app which can elevate root via a user dialog.

      --
      The clash of honour calls, to stand when others fall.
    16. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by immaterial · · Score: 1

      The article you linked to describes phones with no passcode, or law enforcement brute-forcing the passcode (with a 4 digit code, not terribly difficult). One of its citations describes a tool that doesn't work on modern devices at all. And ultimately when police can't get in using the brute-force methods, they have to send the phone to Apple along with a warrant and Apple has some way to decrypt the system (iirc from earlier articles they also brute-force the pin, just more efficiently by bypassing much of the os & firmware). There's no evidence in that article or elsewhere that law enforcement can bypass the hardware encryption.

    17. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by immaterial · · Score: 1

      Utterly false. The phone needs to be unlocked (or the entire contents are encrypted) and the user needs to accept the computer as a trusted device from the phone.

    18. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      USB access to Android phones allows transfer of files from a number of folders without unlocking the device.

      [Most application data directories, of course, aren't among those, but they're not regularly exposed at all during USB connections, so...]

    19. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      Apps with root access can see the entire filesystem, yes.

      You'd need (a) a rooted phone, and (b) to have given the application access -- e.g. many backup programs running on rooted phones.

    20. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by swinefc · · Score: 1

      Thank you very much for the reply.

      Then how do these malware apps spread or infect devices? Or is that just an over exaggerated example that really doesn't happen.

    21. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      Most Android malware is installed by user choice, from unsavory sources. If you check the "Trust me, I know what I'm doing" box, you can install an .apk file from anywhere.

      Then, in the normal security dialogs, you'll let it do things like send messages or take photos or access the internet -- and then it does just that, except not when you're expecting it.

      Your new app can access "public" spaces in the filesystem, like saved photos, contacts (if allowed), etc. but it can't get data out of another program directly unless you're again (a) rooted, and (b) you've allowed this new program root.

    22. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by swinefc · · Score: 1

      Got it. I had always assumed infection was at an operating system level. A single installed app with overreaching access to public spaces and services is a pain, but not the windows virus experience I imagined.

      The ability for a process to launch at boot makes this a worse problem. iOS 7's new backgrounding is close to the same problem if / when malware gets into the Apple App Store.

      Nice to know that simply deleting the app will remove any trace of the Mal-Ware.

      Thanks for the expert information.

    23. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      Programs can, of course, run at startup - otherwise all of your push-based applications and automatic realtime Craigslist searchers would be pretty sad.

      http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/security/permissions.html

    24. Re:Hard to have this happen on Android... by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      This is better than my other link, sorry:

      Once installed on a device, each Android app lives in its own security sandbox:

      The Android operating system is a multi-user Linux system in which each app is a different user.
      By default, the system assigns each app a unique Linux user ID (the ID is used only by the system and is unknown to the app). The system sets permissions for all the files in an app so that only the user ID assigned to that app can access them.
      Each process has its own virtual machine (VM), so an app's code runs in isolation from other apps.
      By default, every app runs in its own Linux process. Android starts the process when any of the app's components need to be executed, then shuts down the process when it's no longer needed or when the system must recover memory for other apps.
      In this way, the Android system implements the principle of least privilege. That is, each app, by default, has access only to the components that it requires to do its work and no more. This creates a very secure environment in which an app cannot access parts of the system for which it is not given permission.

      However, there are ways for an app to share data with other apps and for an app to access system services:

      It's possible to arrange for two apps to share the same Linux user ID, in which case they are able to access each other's files. To conserve system resources, apps with the same user ID can also arrange to run in the same Linux process and share the same VM (the apps must also be signed with the same certificate).
      An app can request permission to access device data such as the user's contacts, SMS messages, the mountable storage (SD card), camera, Bluetooth, and more. All app permissions must be granted by the user at install time.

      From: http://developer.android.com/guide/components/fundamentals.html

  4. omg starbucks gift card numbers at risk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Correct me if I am wrong, but the phone holds starbucks cards, not credit cards. You connect to starbucks.com to "register" and to setup auto-reload on your starbucks card, in order to earn points. The website caches the CC numbers, the phone holds the starbucks card.

    even better... you phone put's your starbucks card in a PDF417 barcode format, making it vulnerable to ocular attack. I could snap a picture of your barcode, and get the benefits of your "auto-reload" starbucks card, and I get free coffee on your dime.

    1. Re:omg starbucks gift card numbers at risk by hawguy · · Score: 1

      Correct me if I am wrong, but the phone holds starbucks cards, not credit cards. You connect to starbucks.com to "register" and to setup auto-reload on your starbucks card, in order to earn points. The website caches the CC numbers, the phone holds the starbucks card.

      even better... you phone put's your starbucks card in a PDF417 barcode format, making it vulnerable to ocular attack. I could snap a picture of your barcode, and get the benefits of your "auto-reload" starbucks card, and I get free coffee on your dime.

      That's what I was thinking.... Not a huge risk and not what I'd be worried about if someone stole my $600 phone. The card number is printed right on the card so its no more risk than if they stole my wallet.

    2. Re:omg starbucks gift card numbers at risk by BronsCon · · Score: 2

      The app also links to one or more credit cards, to refill the Starbucks cards. Seems to me that, if I had your password, I could add my own Starbucks card to your app, transfer all your card balances to it, load it up from your credit card(s), and remove it from your app. And hey, wouldja lookit that? I just emptied out your checking account because one of those credit cards was actually a Visa check card. Oh damn.

      I use the Starbucks app, but will remove it from my phone now, until this issue has been provably fixed (and not just a "we've fixed it" from the marketing monkeys who caused it to begin with).

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  5. Android? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well if the android version of this app works as it should, the information would be stored in a non-accessable location requiring a root enabled browser to navigate to it, thus making it basically "not there" when connected to a windows PC.

    But.....

    Who the hell wants a starbucks app, on any device?

  6. Is this really a surprise? by Akratist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Anyone who's ever worked in software has to realize that the incompetent pinheads that they've worked with before are still floating around out there, doing ever more damage, instead of just fading away and working as a greeter at Wal-Mart. I've worked with people whose code was terrible, at best, and who were barely able to get their crap to compile. I've also worked with people who had no concept of security (including storing plain text passwords). They've moved on to other software positions, and are still writing bad code for some surprisingly large names. And then, there's the pressure factor. I was once asked to implement a feature that the same as removing any user validation from a high-dollar enterprise app. I flatly refused, because I could pretty much walk out and be in another job within a couple of days. Would a person who is on edge of technical incompetency, and knowing their prospects are limited, take the same position? No, they'll say "Yes sir!", bang that code out, and move on to the next debacle. Good management would alleviate this, but let's face it -- bad managers are a dime a dozen, too.

    1. Re:Is this really a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I've worked in software a long time, and I don't think that even the most incompetent of pinheads I've met over the years would allow an app to be released with unencrypted password storage. I mean, even the most inexperienced, irresponsible, unmotivated programmer should know better.

    2. Re:Is this really a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't refuse, you just CC the legal dept. and ask if they have sufficient insurance to cover the consequences...

    3. Re:Is this really a surprise? by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      The system of logic likely starts with the fact that it is low-value transactions, and a limited maximum stored value. Hey, it's more secure than a credit card, right? Then you get creep...

      The Starbucks app has much worse security problems; a photo of the 2D barcode cannot be revoked as a valid credential.

    4. Re:Is this really a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I've worked in software a long time, and I don't think that even the most incompetent of pinheads I've met over the years would allow an app to be released with unencrypted password storage. I mean, even the most inexperienced, irresponsible, unmotivated programmer should know better.

      Does Starbucks allow some manner of encryption in their API that allows the user to store a password on the device but have that storage be completely worthless to anyone with physical access to the device?

      If not, then there is no way to truly bulletproof their password storage for the same reasons unbreakable DRM involving locally-stored keys is impossible. At some point the app will need some token to given to the server, and that token will need to be generated somehow. If the password's encrypted on the device, the device will need to decrypt it somehow before sending it out to the server. If it has the ability to send out the encrypted string, someone can just intercept that string and send it out. If there's a form of public-key system in place, having physical access to the device means the attacker has access to the keys to manipulate the encryption AND the password string. If the app just stores a session token, the token's expiration will remove the convenience of storing the password in the first place. If the attacker doesn't have physical access to the device, how the app stores the password internally is irrelevant.

    5. Re:Is this really a surprise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently you've worked with smarter people than the rest of us. Good for you, but your experience isn't typical.

    6. Re:Is this really a surprise? by skids · · Score: 1

      It goes like this:

      PHB: So how's that App coming.
      Coder: It is basically functional but we still need to work on the securi...
      PHB: SHIP IT!

    7. Re:Is this really a surprise? by egranlund · · Score: 1

      The Starbucks app has much worse security problems; a photo of the 2D barcode cannot be revoked as a valid credential.

      In the Starbucks app you can create a new card and then delete the old one. Or just go purchase another card and add it into the Starbucks app.

    8. Re:Is this really a surprise? by dkleinsc · · Score: 2

      Funny story about this point (anonymized to protect the guilty): A former coworker described working with a guy about 5 years ago who wasn't familiar with the concept of an "array", or in fact much else that would imply any kind of structure or competence. He lasted about 3-5 days before he was caught. Well, I decided to move on, and landed a position in another organization, and lo and behold that same guy had been their sole developer for 4 years! In addition, he'd done some work for some small businesses on the side, and screwed up their stuff too.

      So don't hate these people too much: Reasonably competent people like me can make very good money cleaning up their messes!

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    9. Re:Is this really a surprise? by ciotog · · Score: 1

      That's why you should implement authentication/authorization first.

  7. I'm Up In Yer iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm up in yer iPhone, orderin up the moca-choca-grande-blizatte-frappafuckarino and chargin it to your CC.

    I can't wait to see the deluge of hipster outrage conflicting with the hipster Starbucks loyalty. Heads will be exploding all over the place.

  8. My Order by slapout · · Score: 2

    Yeah, I'd like a Venti Latte with a shot of espresso and a shot of security vulnerabilities.

    --
    Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
    1. Re:My Order by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just imagined someone stealing a phone with this app, walking into a SB, ordering 20 Venti double mocha orange frapachinos, dance to "Wake Me Up Before you Go Go" by Wham! and dying from a heart attack.

    2. Re:My Order by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What might a Starbucks app actually do that needs a password?

    3. Re:My Order by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only thing it does is that you can register gift cards with it and someone could charge Starbucks purchases to the phone for whatever the balance is. No great shakes but it's still sloppy. But I know where you're going with this... Some people are acting like it's an open door to serious identity theft. Most of those same people are using this story as a springboard to fly into a rant against Starbucks on totally unrelated matters. I swear it just never ends.
       
      Different Day, Same Slashdot.

    4. Re:My Order by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      I think the true cause of mortality in that scenario is a freak gasoline fight accident.

  9. Nobody gives a fuck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you're concerned about data security, you don't have meaningful data on your phone. Most smartphone apps wouldn't pass as prototypes in any serious environment. The entire system is made to look nice first, functionality is a distant second and security doesn't even make the list. Users do not care. It's like credit cards: Convenience trumps all.

    1. Re:Nobody gives a fuck by jeffmflanagan · · Score: 1

      Quoting the wise AC to get this a little more visible:

      If you're concerned about data security, you don't have meaningful data on your phone. Most smartphone apps wouldn't pass as prototypes in any serious environment. The entire system is made to look nice first, functionality is a distant second and security doesn't even make the list. Users do not care. It's like credit cards: Convenience trumps all.

  10. Don't like coffe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I prefer whisky... and don't like smartphones either, so yeah...

    Captcha: critique

  11. A bit over-sensationalized by aviators99 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    First, there's no question that this is an example of a horrible design, and a security flaw that should be fixed.

    But the article is way over-the-top. It talks about "credit card numbers", pretty much implying that they are in clear text (TFA, not the actual report). Credit card numbers are not stored in clear text, nor would the clear text credentials give you access to the credit card numbers.

    Also, this is really an article about bypassing the lock code, and nothing else. Physical access to a computer (phone) can eventually get you more sensitive stuff than a cup of coffee.

    1. Re:A bit over-sensationalized by Anonymous+Psychopath · · Score: 2

      First, there's no question that this is an example of a horrible design, and a security flaw that should be fixed.

      But the article is way over-the-top. It talks about "credit card numbers", pretty much implying that they are in clear text (TFA, not the actual report). Credit card numbers are not stored in clear text, nor would the clear text credentials give you access to the credit card numbers.

      Also, this is really an article about bypassing the lock code, and nothing else. Physical access to a computer (phone) can eventually get you more sensitive stuff than a cup of coffee.

      I don't think credit card numbers are used by the app, anyway. All it has is my Starbucks card linked to it, which in turn is linked to my credit card. But that's on their web site, not the phone app. Not saying they're doing any better of a job storing my credit card information in their back-end databases, but I'm reasonably sure it's not stored on my phone.

      --

      Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.

    2. Re:A bit over-sensationalized by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      I don't think credit card numbers are used by the app, anyway. All it has is my Starbucks card linked to it, which in turn is linked to my credit card. But that's on their web site, not the phone app.

      So, the question one needs to ask is ... if the website is storing your credit card, and the app is storing your password in plaintext ... given your password and knowledge of your Starbucks card (which is apparently on the phone), can someone get into the Starbucks website and actually get to your credit card?

      In which case, this would be a security risk because you're only really one hop from the CC info.

      If this password is also how you log into the website, then it's still terrible security and not really going to deter anybody.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:A bit over-sensationalized by aviators99 · · Score: 1

      AFIAK, the website doesn't allow you to retrieve your credit card; just change it.

    4. Re:A bit over-sensationalized by brunes69 · · Score: 1

      You can't find out your own CC number on the Starbucks website.

      The only thing someone could do with this "giant hack" is order a free lattee. Seeing how in order to do this "giant hack" they need your phone, why wouldn't they just sell it on eBay. After all you can get many lattes with $200.

  12. Duty of Care by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Never. Per the last few hundred years of legal precedent, the companies are the victims. It's in the same category as leaving a house unlocked. Legally, the person at fault is the one who decided to abuse the flaw and access information they aren't supposed to.

    Even if true (and I don't agree that it is) this is easily remedied through legislation making inadequate care of customer data illegal by statute (negligence per-se). Furthermore there there are a variety of duty of care torts under which a company could be legally charged including potentially fiduciary duty in some cases.

    The fact that many companies are incompetent is not a sufficient excuse and should never be regarded as such.

  13. Generally you are right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Although, Target has been really taking it on the chin the last several weeks and I'm sure they are learning a valuable lesson. Although that was an internal POS system: not a payment app.

    Now this Starbucks app, yeah it's a stupid oversight, but how much damage can one do at a Starbucks? Order a really really expensive drink and pastry for an entire car load of people? $50? Yeah, it's like someone picking your pocket of $50 - but still - the indignant outrage over a stupid error that was discovered by s security researcher. The hackers and crooks are out for bigger fish than getting free coffees.

    It's not like it's a borrowing app for Bank of America where folks are taking out mortgages in the phone owner's name.

  14. Quality is a complicated thing by sjbe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think you are confusing quality with consistency...At Starbucks you are getting a known quality, it may not always be the best but its always the same. Independent places can be hit and mis, but usually once you find one that makes a product you like, its always good there

    And you seem to be confusing quality with preference. Preference can be a component of quality but quality is more complex and some aspects of quality have a strong subjective component. Part of quality is fitness for a particular purpose, part of it is consistency of output, part of it is the relative superiority of the product, part of it is conformance to specifications, etc. Reliability, sustainability, serviceability and other factors may play a role.

    You cannot really define quality solely in terms of customer preferences because customers often prefer things that are objectively inferior or even dangerous by some measure. We have customers at my company all the time that specify products that if built to their specs would not meet industry standards would fail in the field. What the customer thinks they want isn't always what they actually want.

    When it comes to Starbucks products, they have very good quality by some measures. Their quality on more subjective measures depends on who is doing the evaluation. Obviously a lot of people like their products and are willing to pay a lot for them. Others not so much. I think a lot of people just dislike Starbucks not so much based on their merits of their products but rather based on a more vague dislike of the corporation or the experience of the place.

  15. Not as retro as I hoped by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

    simply by connecting the phone to a computer

    On first read I thought someone had hacked into their servers over dial-up, but it wasn't that interesting.

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
  16. Always look at the app requirements by magarity · · Score: 2

    The Starbuck's app requirement list clearly indicates all kinds of terrible behavio including it needs to be able to make calls and read your contacts list. There may be more, but after those two I stopped reading and declined to install. A vendor's app has no need to do these things. I figured if they're already that bad, there's no telling what mischief their app might get up to.

  17. Think ahead just one more step by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. Companies start being held liable for app security.
    2. Starbucks stores conveniently work properly with some app released by an anonymous guy online you can't sue.

    IMHO the height of stupid is trusting anything important whatsoever to closed-source software with no guarantees or accountability. Do you REALLY need an app to buy coffee?

  18. They already are by Chemisor · · Score: 1

    Companies already are held liable for implementing incompetent security, and are punished by their customers who stop buying their shoddy product, and possibly all their other products, whether shoddy or not. This is already the worst thing you can do to a company.

  19. This security feature is new in 4.2 by tepples · · Score: 1

    unless someone enables debugging and authorizes a computer with its individual key to connect.

    Authorizing an individual computer wasn't introduced until around 4.2 (Jelly Bean 2) or thereabouts. There are still Android devices in use running older operating systems whose manufacturer declines to update the operating system.

  20. That's a Feature by TangoMargarine · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Firefox (unless you turn on the master password) and Pidgin also store passwords in cleartext. The Pidgin devs explained that this is because they don't want to implement security through obscurity, as anyone with access to the stored plaintext xml file already has access to your computer anyway and could presumably decrypt it if they tried to secure it anyway.

    Admittedly, it's a bit different when we're talking about cell phones.

    --
    Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    1. Re:That's a Feature by Palinchron · · Score: 1

      Why exactly is it different when talking about cellphones? The exact same approach still works. What could Starbucks do to improve on this?

      --
      The lesson here is that a sufficiently large corporation is indistinguishable from government. --ultranova
    2. Re:That's a Feature by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      Well, if you leave your cellphone sitting around, it's a lot easier to steal than a desktop, and somewhat easier than a laptop or tablet. And do you keep your cell locked when you're not using it? How effective is the security on it to a real computer? I'm not knowledgeable about such things so I couldn't say.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    3. Re:That's a Feature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure why the unencrypted data is accessible without unlocking the phone; that seems like the OS's fault, not the app's. It shouldn't matter if an app stores something "unencrypted" on a phone's internal storage because that storage should be encrypted and protected by the phone's pin/password.

      The best I can think of off the top of my head is to generate a key pair (or just random password) on login and use that instead of the user's actual password, but that would still allow access to the user's Starbucks account, just not their password.

    4. Re:That's a Feature by foobar+bazbot · · Score: 1

      (I didn't RTFA, of course...)

      Apparently the problem is that the app logs the password to a generic logging facility, and the attack is to read this log, not to read info from where it's "stored" as such.

      AIUI, the fact that anyone can read this log file over USB is intentional, and apps are supposed to sanitize entries of sensitive data before logging them, so the fault lies with the app here.

    5. Re:That's a Feature by Winamp · · Score: 1

      Correct. The idea is that if they encrypted the user's password, Pidgin would have to obviously decrypt it anyway to use it and given the software is completely open source, one would just need to examine the relevant decryption algorithm in the Pidgin code to restore the plaintext password. One could even write a simple decryption tool for end users who weren't particularly proficient with programming.

      All that encrypting passwords in Pidgin would accomplish would be to eliminate immediate, opportunistic knowledge of a user's password. But it would be so trivial to decode the encrypted password that it would be pointless anyway. Having said that, security through obscurity is better than none in my book, so I don't agree with the Pidgin developers and would prefer something that would at least fool the dumb kids who don't know any better.

  21. Re:Android security by kbdd · · Score: 1

    On my Android phone (Moto Droid Razr), the flash storage is not accessible via USB until I unlock the phone. Of course, the SD card could be removed, but most applications store to the internal flash by default, so there is at least a moderate level of protection against that kind of attack on Android.

  22. Dumping username/password/oauth tokens - bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A verbose disclosure

    http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2014/Jan/64

    1. Re:Dumping username/password/oauth tokens - bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A verbose disclosure

      http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2014/Jan/64

      rather.... dumping username/password/oauthtokens to log files is bad

  23. Oh no! by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    Someone might steal your phone then... buy you a coffee?

  24. Re: Android security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least on iOS 7, not only do you need to unlock the phone, you need to opt in to rusting the computer.

    So it's really only an issue on devices running 6 or earlier that aren't in supervised mode (20%) or not having a passcode set at all (likely 40% or so)

    That's a significant fraction of the devices out there, but for most it's within the phone owners power to fix

  25. Most popular smartphone payment app by sjbe · · Score: 3, Informative

    Why would anyone use a Starbucks app? My guess is that the security hole affected at most two people: The Starbucks marketing manager who wanted it and the guy who developed it.

    The Starbucks app is THE most popular smartphone payment app for retailers out there. It allows you to bring up a barcode on your smartphone screen to pay. On the iPhone it also is aware of when you walk into a Starbucks location and you do not even have to pull up the app thanks to the Passbook on the iphone. You just swipe the screen and it brings the barcode up for payment. Very easy to use and faster than cash or credit card. Payment is behind the scenes with an credit card attached to a Starbucks card. You can have multiple cards and transfer balances between them. If you want to see the future of using a smartphone to pay for products, you should be looking at this app. Starbucks is way ahead of anyone else in implementing this stuff. If you actually go into a Starbucks you'll almost certainly see someone using their smartphone to pay for their drinks.

    No I don't work for Starbucks and I'm not promoting or disparaging the product. Merely describing what Starbucks has done. It is attention worthy whether you like Starbucks or not.

  26. Android seems ok by GweeDo · · Score: 1

    I didn't spend much time on it, but this doesn't seem to be the case on Android. First of all, they never store things outside of /data/data/com.starbucks.mobilecard. So only a root application would be able to read things. Secondly, the main sqlite database they seem to be storing things in is encrypted.

  27. So, what SHOULD it have done? by bradgoodman · · Score: 1
    If the app needed to "store the encrypted password" - what options would it have? It could encrypt and store it - but then it would need some sort of encryption key to do so - and the app would need that key (which would then have to be stored in the app.

    So, what's the solution? We're NOT talking about a password file that can be stored in a hashed manner - that's receiving and verifying passwords, not sending them. Web browsers don't store cookies/tokens in an encrypted manner - if you got them you could use them elsewhere (assuming they weren't tied to IP address or whatever).

    So - (and I'm asking literally, not rhetorically) what should they have done?

    1. Re:So, what SHOULD it have done? by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      From the article:

      Daniel Wood, a Minneapolis-area computer-security specialist, said he was able to break into the app’s file containing his email address, user name and password. That’s the same file where credit-card information would go, which means it would be exposed if he had entered it, he said in an interview.

      So I suspect the issue is that he thinks CC data might also be available in plain text, but he couldn't be bothered spending the 10 seconds it would take to actually check if that is the case.

    2. Re:So, what SHOULD it have done? by bradgoodman · · Score: 1
      I agree that the credit card info should NOT be there - but by virtue of the fact that he didn't say it was - I'd assume it is not. I'd also assume Starbucks would just keep CC info on their own web site, not on the phone.

      So - knowing that the app needs to somehow either cache this info in a way it can get it back to login, or have you re-enter the password every time, I'll ask again:

      What SHOULD they have done differently.

    3. Re:So, what SHOULD it have done? by cplusplus · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure about iOS, but the Android SDK gives access to a excellent and easy to use crypto libraries, as well as a Keystore class to securely store any keys your App generates. Check out the Security Tips section of the SDK docs. I would assume iOS and Apple's SDK provide something similar. I would hope they do, anyway.

      --
      "False hope is why we'll never run out of natural resources!" - Lewis Black