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Why the Major Labels Love (and Artists Hate) Music Streaming

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Jay Frank writes that the big four music distributors and their sister publishers (Sony, Warner, UNI and EMI) make 15% more per year, on average, from paying customers of streaming services like Spotify or Rdio than it does from the average customer who buys downloads, CDs or both. Each label makes 'blanket license' deals with Streaming services with advances in the undisclosed millions, which is virtually the same as selling music in bulk; they receive these healthy licensing fees to cover all activity in a given period rather than allowing Streaming services to 'pay as they go.' 'Artists are up in arms, many are opting out of streaming services,' writes Frank. 'Lost in that noise is a voice that is seldom heard: that of the record companies. There's good reason for that: they're making more money from streaming and the future looks extremely bright for them.' The average 'premium' subscription customer in the U.S. was worth about $16 a year to a major record company, while the average buyer of digital downloads or physical music was worth about $14. Thus, year over year, the premium subscriber was worth nearly 15% more than the person who bought music either digitally or physically."

24 of 164 comments (clear)

  1. Of course... by ZorinLynx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They don't want us to own our music collections!

    I've been VERY careful with services like Spotify. If I really like a song, I still acquire a real copy that's mine, rather than depend on Spotify to listen to it when I want to.

    The simple fact is that Spotify might be gone someday, yet my MP3s will still be sitting on my (backed up) hard drive.

    1. Re:Of course... by alen · · Score: 5, Interesting

      if you're young and listen to recent music, then owning is not that expensive

      if you're older than dirt like myself and want to listen to lots of music from the last 40 years or longer than renting is a lot cheaper. add to this the fact that there is so much music to listen to that there is no sense in buying even single songs you might listen to a few times and then go on to something else

    2. Re:Of course... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've been VERY careful with services like Blockbuster. If I really like a movie, I still acquire a real copy that's mine, rather than depend on Blockbuster to watch to it when I want to.

      The simple fact is that Blockbuster might be gone someday, yet my DVDs will still be sitting on my shelf.

      I'm sorry, but your logic escapes me. Why would you need to be "VERY careful" with Spotify? It's basically just a rental service, much like Blockbuster was. You didn't need to be "VERY careful" when dealing with Blockbuster, did you?

      The other AC is right. If Spotify goes down, you just switch to the next service that replaces it. One monthly fee is removed from your card, and a new one takes its place.

      "I'm not gonna rebuy my content!" some people might say. Except you aren't rebuying the content. Rebuying content would be purchasing a DVD after you'd already bought a VHS. This is "I'm canceling my Netflix subscription and switching to Amazon Prime".

    3. Re:Of course... by alex67500 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The you buy from the next service, when they shut down, repeat.

      That's because you don't understand about the storage the OP is talking about. FLAC, extracted from the CD, without DRM. Your service goes bust / stops streaming that band, who cares, you still have your music!

  2. Obviously! by tysonedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Artists are up in arms because record companies make more money off of their work, and yet they end up making less!

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    Thirty four characters live here.
    1. Re:Obviously! by Dan+East · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Neither of these articles say that. What they're talking about is domination - it's harder for a small number of artists to grab the majority of the revenue with streaming. So obviously not all artists are upset with streaming.

      --
      Better known as 318230.
    2. Re:Obviously! by icebike · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Neither of these articles say that. What they're talking about is domination - it's harder for a small number of artists to grab the majority of the revenue with streaming. So obviously not all artists are upset with streaming.

      They very carefully don't say that, but I bet it is true anyway.

      If the streamers pay the labels a blanket fee, that means they do not count (and may not be even able to count) listeners for each song, and provide labels with enough info to apportion these blanket payments in any rational way.

      So the labels divi it up any way they want, and pay the artists what ever miserly pittance the labels can get away with.

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      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    3. Re:Obviously! by Eskarel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Artists are up in arms largely because they're irrational idiots. They see that they got a million plays and they look at their check which is only a few grand and think they're getting royally screwed, which simply isn't true

      The problem for artists is that they don't really understand what a million plays actually means, I've heard it over and over again in radio interviews and articles. 10 tracks to an album, presuming anyone who actually likes the album enough to buy it will listen to it at least 10 times and you're down to 10,000 sales if you go with the most optimistic result possible. In reality it's probably more likely that the people who would have actually bought the album would have listened to the album at least 100 times for their $13 and that more than half the people who listen to a song would never have bought the album and may never listen to it again.

      Fundamentally the issue is that while streaming opens up the number of artists that your average punter has available to listen to by several orders of magnitude the number of record companies is the same as it's always been. So when you have consumers spending more on music than they did previously with much lower overheads the record companies make more money and the artists(on average) make significantly less(more money available but spread over a much larger number of people).

      In the end, the problem is that making a living as an artist of any kind is difficult. It was difficult before streaming, it'll be difficult after streaming is replaced, hell it was difficult before there were recordings of any kind(though for different reasons). If you release an album every 3 years and you're making about $3 per sale, you'll be looking at needing 30,000 fans who buy every album just to get the kind of income you could earn at a pretty bog standard office job, and that's not even counting any of the costs associated with recording and makes a pretty optimistic assumption that you can actually produce an album every 3 years that anyone will actually buy for the entirety of your working life. A very few people get huge amounts of money, some people get a little bit of money or money for a little bit of time, most get a whole lot of nothing.

    4. Re:Obviously! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When you are streaming, you can't know for sure how many are listening.

      True, but the number of people listening in the room with the audio-playing device isn't particularly relevant to the royalty calculaton--it's the number of accounts, and that they do know.

      Its not a separate tcp stream for each remote device.

      Yes, it actually is. It's not streaming radio, it's on demand music. The streaming services know which songs you listen to, when you listened to them, and whether you interacted with the platform while doing so (to favorite, skip, alter your playlist, look at artist information, and so on). Even services that don't let you build playlists or select music and instead put together their own playlists for you (Pandora being a prime example) don't actually "broadcast" a stream that you just tune into the middle of. Each Pandora "station" starts at the beginning of a song, and what's playing on that station for you is not the same as what's playing for me, even if we're both listening to Justin Bieber Radio or whatever at the exact same time.

      Streaming services absolutely count the number of listening accounts, and the number of plays per account, and every other conceivable data point. They are fully capable of calculating royalties precisely to apportion them exactly proportionally to the revenue collected.

  3. The Artists should be thrilled by rossz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If the record companies were honest, the artists would be making more money so would love streaming services. Unfortunately, the record industry is controlled by a bunch of thieving assholes who see paying artists as unnatural. So the record companies are making money hand over fist, and the the artists get screwed, as usual.

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    -- Will program for bandwidth
  4. The name of the game, boy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    We call it Riding the Gravy Train.

  5. Someone please by Swampash · · Score: 3, Insightful

    tell me why I should give a shit? This is like a news item telling me how much Dropbox pays for hard disks or how much Google pays for electricity.

    Streaming music services like Spotify provide a service, and I pay for it if I find it good value for money. I don't care what their overheads are or what deals they have in place with their suppliers.

    1. Re:Someone please by noh8rz10 · · Score: 3, Funny

      no, because I stream all my music anyways so there's no need to back it up to disk.

    2. Re:Someone please by VortexCortex · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not my problem.

      Not your problem, but you are to blame. You are knowingly supporting something that you know to be unethical and corrupt. That makes you part of the problem.

      Negative. You're making an assumption here. In fact I want to make absolutely sure that "Piracy" can never harm media companies or artists ever again...

      I put it to you that you're knowingly supporting Copyright laws which are unethical and corrupt. Indeed, there is zero evidence that copyright is required or beneficial for society, this is an untested hypothesis, and is unethical to run the world's economy of ideas based on untested hypotheses. There is only evidence in support of the null hypothesis that copyright laws are not needed for social benefit: Fashion and Automobiles are allowed no design copyright, and they are very lucrative.

      Is there any point at which the ethics of a company involved would stop you paying for a service?

      Yes, I have have not owned any Sony merchandise for many years. I spend no money to support their services.

      How is it ethical to sell something that is in infinite supply? Here's a crash course in Economics 101: Infinite supply = zero price (regardless of cost to create). Selling information in the information age is like selling ice to Eskimos, but worse, because information/electrons are far less substantial than H2O molecules. Now, I could sell igloos to Eskimos. I could charge them labor to do work. That's ethical. It's not ethical for me to prevent others from duplicating my igloo design.

      I can fix cars, I can agree on a price to do work for people, do the work and get paid once, then let the people benefit unbounded from my efforts afterwards -- I don't charge them each time they fire up the motor. Mechanics provide a 1:1 work to benefit ratio -- One driver benefits from the work. Because the number of times the driver can benefit from the work is unbounded a mechanic charges only once: For the entire total of unbounded benefit they provide, which sets the cost of the labor the mechanic provides. The Mechanic has an infinite monopoly over their work until they perform it, not afterwards; This is how they are able to come to a payment agreement before the work is done.

      Information is a post-scarcity resource. A musician can agree to make a new song. No one can extract this new song before it is created. Musicians have an infinite monopoly over their work until they perform it, not afterwards; They could come to a payment agreement for the work to be created. Reputation, skill, etc. will be factors in the negotiation. The musician can get paid for their creation once, and then should create more works to make more money. The information is in infinite supply, so market what is scarce: The ability to create new works. This is how all labor industries operate, it's ethical and sane, and doesn't leverage artificial scarcity, thus does not necessitate draconian laws to enforce coin-slots on steering columns, or DRM on media.

      Artists and Authors and other Information creators can provide a 1:many work to benefit ratio -- Many people benefit from the work. Therefore, many people should pay for the work to be done. One of the beautiful things about the information age is that when it occurs on your planet it also brings with it a planetary system for the distribution of payment so that these information creators can make a payment agreement up front with many people, do the work and get paid, and do more work to make more money. This is the first generation of the Global Decentralized Information Exchange, of course you will have to adjust to the post-scarcity economics. It is unethical for you to hinder such progress.

      That said, I believe the poster you are replying to merely stated that artists creating music doesn't mean they automatically deserve payment for it. Should you be forced to pay for something you don't want? Well, so long as your race embraces the

  6. Maybe not all artists hate it by Dan+East · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Hypebot article gives a few reasons artists don't like streaming. It includes things like having to wait longer for revenue, songs have to have "legs" and longevity, and finally the pie is cut into smaller pieces.

    Do you see a pattern there? It isn't so conducive to pop / top 40 / disposable type music. An example given is that instead of consumer buying 3 CDs over the course of a year (and thus the money only going to 3 artists), with streaming that same amount of money may be split up over 18 artists instead. To me that sounds very good for indie artists, and, well, for music in general (if quality means anything). If a consumer is only going to buy 3 CDs a year on average, then there's a good chance those 3 artists will be the flavor of the month as shoved down everyone's throats by radio stations, TV shows, etc.

    The artists that would be doing the most complaining are the highest grossing superstars, and to be honest, I'm not all that concerned for their financial well being.

    The real question is do the record companies get an even larger percentage of the revenue with streaming, and I didn't see where these articles said that.

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    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:Maybe not all artists hate it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The Hypebot article gives a few reasons artists don't like streaming. It includes things like having to wait longer for revenue, songs have to have "legs" and longevity, and finally the pie is cut into smaller pieces.

      Do you see a pattern there? It isn't so conducive to pop / top 40 / disposable type music. An example given is that instead of consumer buying 3 CDs over the course of a year (and thus the money only going to 3 artists), with streaming that same amount of money may be split up over 18 artists instead. To me that sounds very good for indie artists, and, well, for music in general (if quality means anything). If a consumer is only going to buy 3 CDs a year on average, then there's a good chance those 3 artists will be the flavor of the month as shoved down everyone's throats by radio stations, TV shows, etc.

      The artists that would be doing the most complaining are the highest grossing superstars, and to be honest, I'm not all that concerned for their financial well being.

      The real question is do the record companies get an even larger percentage of the revenue with streaming, and I didn't see where these articles said that.

      What happens is the exact opposite of this. Imagine you spend $30 on music; if you spent this on buying smaller artists albums they would receive $10 (a guess but may be less). If you spend this on streaming, the $30 is spread over all the artists IN PROPORTION to the TOTAL streaming numbers (NOT your streaming) so the smaller (read less popular) artists get almost *nothing* (literally $0.0003 or near enough) despite you individually streaming their songs. This is due to how the streaming contract payments are structured across all streams rather than monitoring and paying on individual streams (there was a blog post on this but I can't find it).

      In short: streaming is utterly terrible for smaller, independent artists but great for larger artists who can dominate the TOTAL streaming statistics.

  7. That is why I pirate sheet music by jfdavis668 · · Score: 4, Funny

    and play the songs myself. I don't sing though, I'm terrible.

  8. "Streaming" is not new.. and it used to be free. by kheldan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I remember back in the day you could get numerous channels of streaming music service 100% free. It worked reliably in your home, car, or even just walking around. You'd hear brand-new music just released, and you could even make requests to hear something specific, and it was all totally free. It was called broadcast radio. Of course we still have that but it's a shadow of it's former self (thanks Internet!).

    When I first starting seeing Shoutcast and other Internet music streaming services, they were free, and I thought it was pretty cool because I could actually get more diversity with fewer (if any!) commercials than over-the-air radio. Then of course the music "industry" made their unfunny dick move and ruined it for everyone. Yeah, nah, fuck the RIAA and fuck subscription streaming music services. I'll still stick with broadcast radio when I'm out driving around, and music from my own collection the rest of the time.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  9. Re:"Streaming" is not new.. and it used to be free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Broadcast radio was quite dead before streaming. The death of radio even predates napster. It was pretty sick and almost dead before the internet ever was a thing even.

    In the usa you can thank clearchannel for that. 12 stations all playing the same songs. all day long. and talk radio.

  10. Re:"Streaming" is not new.. and it used to be free by noh8rz10 · · Score: 4, Funny

    a bonus for broadcast, you get 20 mins of some idiot talking every hour, plus 20 mins of commercials. value added!

  11. Say what? by mbone · · Score: 4, Informative

    Lost in that noise is a voice that is seldom heard: that of the record companies.

    This must be a report from some other planet, because on the one I live on, the record companies are frequently the only voice that is heard.

  12. Who makes the product? by melchoir55 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Let me preface this by saying I am totally on board the RIAA and record company hate train. I'm the guy pulling the whistle even. Choo Choo! They are greedy organizations who will ruthlessly do anything for profit.

    That being said, I have become convinced over time that the artist-record company relationship is actually fair. Artists don't make the majority of the money that gets plunked down for their songs. But, you know, what? They aren't really doing much of the work either. Artists write and perform the song.This takes work, surely. Let's be generous and say each individual song takes a full person year to write and get good at. Record companies dump enormous resources into promoting it. This includes the work of hundreds (thousands?) of people resulting in the expenditure of many years of person effort. It seems to me like the record company is actually the one contributing more value. What happens to artists who try to succeed without record companies, or grants from universities? A tiny percentage of them earn enough to subsist. There is a reason for this.

    To be frank, at the end of the day professional musicians who make a good living aren't really any better than many of the ones who are struggling. I've seen so many really talented musician friends go through school to finely hone their skills, only to find no one in the real world cares (ie they can't make money). The reason no one cares isn't because people don't value music. They do. That is why so much money goes into buying music. The problem is that reaching the threshold at which most people consider you "good" is attainable by a VAST portion of the population. Probably roughly the same percentage of the population who can be considered good at physically lifting things and then setting them down elsewhere. Good musicians are a dime a dozen.

    I know the musicians out there are going to crucify me for this. You'll all point out it is possible to discern the difference between the violinist who makes 10 mil and the one who can't get a job. I'm sure you can. The point is that most of society can't, and doesn't care to. This is why most of you make nothing and have to pursue other careers. I wish you would all wake up to it before dumping a decade or more into it. Unless of course you are wealthy enough to pursue it whether it brings you income or not.

    Music and the arts are for everyone, as a hobby, because any human can be good at them to some degree. The skills it takes to do them are part of what it is to be human. They have been pursued professionally by the rich, or friends of the rich, historically. This is because the rich can afford to spend 20 years getting good to maybe get paid well at the end. If you are a middle or lower class person trying to pursue music you are being irresponsible. You are more than likely wasting your time, except for the rare people who value the honing of skills higher than standard of living.

    1. Re:Who makes the product? by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A year for each song? Most pop music wouldn't even take the better part of an afternoon to write. It's a 4 chord song which follows a fairly standard pattern. The melody is generally the only unique part, and that's because that's what the copyright is based on. Nearly all lyrics are truly banal crap with little to no meaning. The vast majority of songs are limp love songs with tepid pointless sappy lyrics.

      There are exceptions, of course, but if we're talking rock / pop then and especially anything that charts, then it's all drivel. Some examples:

      Baby baby
      Are you listening?
      Wondering where you've been all my life
      I just started living
      Oh baby
      Are you listening?

      Unconditional, unconditionally
      I will love you unconditionally
      There is no fear now
      Let go and just be free
      I will love you unconditionally

      I live for the applause, applause, applause
      I live for the applause-plause, live for the applause-plause
      Live for the way that cheer and scream for me
      The applause, applause, applause

      Yeah girl, I just had me,
      One hell of a work week.
      It's been driving me crazy,
      Not enough of you baby.
      And I been a-thinkin',
      'Bout breakin' in the weekend
      Not doin' any sleepin'
      So get in, let's take a ride

      Such insight! Such clever prose and phrasing! Truly these gems will shine till the sun itself have burnt out...

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    2. Re:Who makes the product? by mjwx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That being said, I have become convinced over time that the artist-record company relationship is actually fair. Artists don't make the majority of the money that gets plunked down for their songs. But, you know, what? They aren't really doing much of the work either. Artists write and perform the song.This takes work, surely. Let's be generous and say each individual song takes a full person year to write and get good at. Record companies dump enormous resources into promoting it. This includes the work of hundreds (thousands?) of people resulting in the expenditure of many years of person effort. It seems to me like the record company is actually the one contributing more value. What happens to artists who try to succeed without record companies, or grants from universities? A tiny percentage of them earn enough to subsist. There is a reason for this.

      This is entirely true for your Bieber's, Beoynce's and Skrillex's. But it wasn't always the case. This is largely due to the fact that music has pretty much died and what we've been left with requires so much post production and marketing to sell, the "artist" is almost unnecessary. The only reason they still need real people is because of the uncanny valley. If we could make an image indistinguishable from a real person, record labels could get rid of the useless meat.

      Long gone are the days where bands would write a new record almost entirely on tour, then produce it in a studio over 3 months and it would be mastered a short time later mainly because the band needed to get back on tour to earn money. I'm using Nirvana's Nevermind as an example, recorded between May and June 1991, Mastered on the 2nd of August 1991 and released on the 24th of September 1991. Between the 2nd of May and the 2nd of August, they produced one of the worlds greatest albums, a period of 4 months and half of that was recording. Most of the work was done by Cobain, Novoselic, Grohl and the producer, Butch Vig.

      A far cry from today where most of the music is not only fixed by computers, it's actually generated by computers. Beyond the initial recordings, the "artist" (I'm using that term very loosely) isn't required and doesn't really have any input. We now have pop and rap which is largely the creation of computers but dubstep and electronic music is entirely the work of computers. This is why it has become so expensive and time consuming to produce a studio album. You dont start with a band using instruments to produce a near finished product, you have to create that from scratch.

      And we're all suffering because of it.

      Previously bands would work their way up, playing at parties, weddings, just about anything to get noticed, to get fans. Now so called "artists" are relying on marketing and saturating radio coverage to get people to like their crud. Music is albeit dead now, replaced with rap, dubstep and electronic substitutes. Soon the man with the guitar will be an endangered species.

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      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.