In Greece, 10 Months In Prison For "Blasphemous" Facebook Page

First time accepted submitter etash writes "A bit more than a year ago a man was arrested in Greece for satirizing a dead monk, after the far-right party golden dawn, petitioned for his arrest. A couple of days ago he was given a ten-month sentence. What actually enraged the religious Greek blogosphere was not the satire. He wrote a fictitious story about a miracle done in the past by this specific monk. The story was then sent to [a religious blog] and then in a matter of days it was copy pasted and presented as true by most of the religious and far-right blogs and news sites. The final act of the dramedy took place when he came out and revealed that the story was not real; he intended to show the absurdity and the lack of reliability of these sites."

Comments

Proof the religion is the true evil.

[etijburg]

This is just more proof that religion is just evil. It is a means of controlling what you believe. This is why the religious right in the USA is determined to get creation in the schools. So they can indoctrinate children before they learn critical thinking and realize that it is just a means of controlling them.

Re:Proof the religion is the true evil.

[umafuckit]

I'm Greek but haven't lived there permanently since I was I child, so someone who's currently living there may have a different take on this: What you have to understand is that religion in Greece is approached somewhat differently to countries like the US or the UK. If you're Greek then it's pretty much a given that you're also baptised Christian Orthodox. It's only recently, amidst controversy, that "religion" has been removed from the national ID cards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_identity_card).

The link between nationality and religion is particularly strong because of the recent history of the country. What was to become the modern state of Greece begun its revolution from the Ottoman empire in 1821. Religion was an important factor in helping to create the "us vs them" mentality required to rise the people against the Ottomans. Following the revolution, religion was one of the tools used to bind the nation together. Religion and history were used a vital social glue, since the post-revolution Greeks were having a hard time organising and governing themselves without squabbling. Furthermore, the 19th century was the first time Greece existed as a state in its own right, so this was a particularly difficult period. Before that "Greece" was part of the Ottoman empire, before that the Byzantine (which was, admittedly, Greek speaking), before that it was the Romans, before that it was city states. Over the course of its history, different parts of Greece have also been occupied by the Venetians, the Franks, and the English.

As a result of this turbulent history, Greeks now take their national identity very seriously and religion is part of that identity. Most Greeks aren't truly religious and few go to church regularly. There isn't any crazy religious extremism like the Bible belt US and there is little preaching in church: the priest does the liturgy (same every day) then he leaves. However, the extreme right wing Golden Dawn have, predictably, hijacked religion as it's a good way of mobilising Greeks against the dark skinned immigrants and gays they so detest. So none of this really about religion at all and religious Greeks can cope with satire of the sort discussed here. All of this is about the Golden Dawn seeking every opportunity to flex its muscles.

The Golden Dawn are pretty fucking crazy. They've yelled "Heil Hitler" during a parliament session (http://www.euronews.com/2013/05/17/golden-dawn-and-syriza-clash-over-heil-hitler-cries-in-greek-parliament/) and their PR guy smacked a far-left politician in the face on live TV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi6TbLmeFoQ) and later claimed, again on TV, that he was defending himself and that she hit him first (I don't have an English language link to that movie).

Since i am a Greek...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well -since i am a Greek- let me explain.
That guy did a hoax/satire using a dead Greek Christian monk highly respected in my country - it wasn't his first hoax/satire against Christianity...
That was noticed by a right-wing political group and they used an old law for "protecting the religious beliefs/feelings of people against mockery" (created many decades earlier for protecting the Muslim minority) to instil -in an ironic way... we are Greeks...- a sense of logic!
The guy said in an interview he gave in the Greek media that even the police officers and the prosecutors were really upset that they had to charge him... but "dura lex, sed lex" - don't worry, he is not going to jail or anything like that.

Re:Not here!

[davester666]

Really? To me, it runs just below the surface.

Abortion, still pursued with varying vengeance at the state and federal level to deny access to it across the US
ACA has all kinds of religious exemptions written into it
In court you swear to a particular diety.
Education, a bunch of states, some of which influence purchases across the US, keeps having trouble with this separation, slipping in and out of teaching a specific religion

Hell, I'm still not sure why here in Canada we publicly fund a parallel Catholic school system along with our public schools.

Re:Not neccesairly

[ShanghaiBill]

Stipulations in Freedom of Speech rarely turn out well. Freedom of any and all speech should be a fundamental human right.

Thomas Jefferson and James Madison once had this same conversation. Jefferson had proposed that the Constitution protect the right to "speak the truth". Madison pointed out that this was a bad idea, because people in power could dictate what was "true". Jefferson agreed, and freedom of speech was written into the Bill of Rights without qualifications.

Re:Education, not laws

[plover]

There are plenty of neo-Nazis here in the good ol' US of A. The difference is that we have freedom of expression, where if a handful of skinheads goosesteps up and down the street yelling "Sieg heil!", there are a hundred non-skinheads who yell "go home you morons" at them.

The rest of us watch them on the TV, and either abhor, admire, or ignore the actions of one side or the other.

It's important that these idiots be allowed to express their stupid opinions. The basic idea is that it helps avoid creating the "poor suppressed martyrs" who use that to draw other people who feel outcast into their secret clubs.

Does this strategy work? Well, the neo-Nazis here are very marginalized.

Re:Education, not laws

[Sardaukar86]

Does this strategy work? Well, the neo-Nazis here are very marginalized.

Excellent post and as far as I'm aware you're quite right, Neo-Nazism simply hasn't become a real problem in Western democracies. That's despite the full availability of some of the most emotive and powerful imagery ever employed (such as Hitler's speeches, the Swastika, etc.) which is all still here and just as potent even after all these years.

Free speech for these people and other groups like them is a critical safety valve for society. It also allows the public to judge the words and deeds of said groups for themselves without '3am disappearances' hiding the true extent of a movement.

Yet despite this I've had some (quite heated) arguments with otherwise normal people who would have the Neo-Nazis thrown in prison if they could. Why is this concept of freedom of speech so hard for some people to grasp, even as they enjoy the benefits of a free society?

Re:Education, not laws

[femtobyte]

Hitler's speeches are in German, and the US public mainly only has memories of the swastika as symbolizing an evil enemy. Thus, swastika-wearing, Hitler-quoting neo-Nazi movements have little resonance with Western/US audiences; the insidious power of Hitler's own words and symbols has little resonance with the American people. However, more "home-grown" groups, promoting similar ideologies but without swastikas or German-language slogans, do get a significant amount of traction in the US --- if you wrap up the ugliest racism, xenophobia, and far-right authoritarianism in an American flag, you can attract quite a following. So, while Nazis-calling-themselves-Nazis are only a fringe joke in the US, Neo-Naziism by other names is far from being "not a problem."

Re:Education, not laws

[cold fjord]

Excellent post and as far as I'm aware you're quite right, Neo-Nazism simply hasn't become a real problem in Western democracies.

As you say, "awareness" is part of the problem. You aren't aware, and neo-Nazism is a problem in Europe.

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BUDAPEST, Hungary -- The World Jewish Congress said Tuesday it is greatly concerned about the emergence of what it called neo-Nazi parties in Europe, singling out Greece's Golden Dawn, Hungary's Jobbik, and Germany's National Democratic Party.

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Re:Violation of ECHR

[psymastr]

In Greece, judges are required to suspend all non-felony sentences, unless the convicted has a criminal record. Even if you have a criminal record, the sentence can be still suspended, and even if it is not then, for non-felony sentences, you can buy the prison time for 10 euros per day.

If you get a suspended sentence it does not show on your public criminal record, only to the one available to judges.

So there is no chance that this guy will go to prison, and the conviction is very likely to be reversed when the appeal is heard.