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How the Black Hole Firewall Paradox Was Resolved

Stephen Hawking's recent comments about the nature of black holes have bred uncertainty about physics concepts that were relatively well understood. This article from astrophysicist Ethan Siegel explains that yes, black holes still exist, and how a group of three academic papers answered the black hole 'firewall' paradox. Quoting: "... And so what these three papers, in tandem, have done, is demonstrate that there is no firewall and that the resolution to the firewall paradox is that the first assumption, that Hawking radiation is in a pure state, is the one that's flawed. You won't read about this in the popular write-ups because it doesn't have a catchy headline, it's complex, and it's not work by someone that's already very famous for other work. But it's right. Hawking radiation is not in a pure state, and without that pure state, there's no firewall, and no paradox. There is still an incredible amount to learn and understand about black holes, event horizons, and the behavior of quantum systems in strongly curved spacetime, to be sure, and there's lots of very interesting research ahead. These findings arguably raise more questions than they answer, although at least we know that black holes won't fry you when you fall in; it will still be death by spaghettification, not by incineration!"

11 of 118 comments (clear)

  1. Begs the question by alaskana98 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "death by spaghettification" Perhaps this is the ultimate end for a 'Flying Sphaghetti Monster' fearing Pastafarian? Ramen!

    1. Re:Begs the question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Black holes are some of the most dramatic events the cosmos: As round and powerful as his meaty balls, and within spaghettified as his noodly appendages.

      Ramen, indeed. The proof of His divine influence is writ in all scales throughout the heavenly quantum sauce.

    2. Re:Begs the question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I sense a schism forming. Flying Orthodox vs. Liberal Stationary. Go!

  2. At least we don't roast. by fleabay · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "it will still be death by spaghettification, not by incineration!" +1 for Pastafarians

  3. "But it's right." by Gaygirlie · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, this is all still highly theoretical and you cannot state that this hypothesis is absolutely, definitely correct. It may be correct, it may well be the best theory we have and all that, but it's still a theory.

  4. Re:I always thought... by wisnoskij · · Score: 5, Informative

    The problem with that is that black holes need the mass they suck in to exist.

    The mass cannot both be in the black hole and shot out the other side into a new universe.

    So unless you can come up with a theory that has black holes creating mass out of nothing, that is simply impossible.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  5. Solution by rossdee · · Score: 4, Funny

    But what if you reconfigure the main deflector to emit a tachyon pulse

  6. Re:I always thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    No it isn't. A cosmological model is a foliation of maximally-symmetric spacelike hypersurfaces. A black hole is not maximally-symmetric. A black hole is a non-evolving system -- it possesses at least one timelike Killing vector -- and a cosmological system is the exact opposite, an evolving system that has no timelike Killing vector. The only real similarity is that a black hole (as you're doubtless meaning it; a Schwarzschild solution) is spherically symmetric, and the spacelike slices in a cosmological spacetime are also spherically symmetric. But so is flat Minkowski space, and so are Tolman-Bondi spaces.

  7. Complementarity by Maritz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It all depends where you're observing from.

    If you're alice, falling through the black hole horizon, you see no horizon, and no firewall. It's a harmless point of no return. In a particularly large black hole say with a horizon the size of the solar system (this would have to be a super-galactic beastie) you could potentially live out your life in there before getting crushed by tidal forces.

    If you're bob on the outside, it looks like alice slows down and gets increasingly red shifted. Alice moves asymptotically towards the horizon but never quite reaches it. Just getting slower and redder. Of course the reverse is also true, if alice looked back at bob she'd see him all sped up like keystone cops.

    Because the light coming to you from the regime around alice is so red shifted, you conclude that it must be incredibly high energy/frequency down where alice is (the firewall)

    The funny part is, if you send photons at alice hoping to reflect them back to yourself (to see if she's alright) - the photons have to be so energetic to make the return trip that you end up vapourising alice just as the firewall would have done.

    This is the impression I get from reading Leonard Susskind's stuff, broadly taken to be black hole complementarity. Neither view is objectively more 'correct' than the other. We've accepted wave/particle duality so I don't really see how we can't have two pictures of what happens in a black hole.

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  8. Re: I always thought... by wisnoskij · · Score: 3, Informative

    There is some debate exactly what happens when you get enough mass together to tie space-time into knots. The most important part of a black hole is really the event horizon, which is the point X distance from the center of mass of a black hole where the gravitational pull is so strong that nothing can escape. The original idea was that is was a very static place, a perfect circle.

    There is a bunch of different problems with this. Because in this universe we have the idea that mass, energy, and information cannot be lost. Something cannot just go into a black box and all knowledge of it is lost, because then information would then of been lost.

    Stephen hawking's has just come forward with the idea that it is a far more stormy area with fluctuating gravity. Which would allow this information to escape. Previously the idea was Hawking radiation, which would allow things to escape from the black whole even without fluctuation gravity.

    One of the problems of with the horizon, that someone just proposed, was that it would be so tumultuous at the edge that everything would be burned beyond recognition,. This article is about how stuff entering a BH would NOT in fact be burned beyond recognition.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  9. Re:I always thought... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    (I do have a doctorate in cosmology and I've a contention with what you've said: a black hole is not a singularity, whether by definition or otherwise. A "black hole" is simply a region in vacuum shrouded by an event horizon, and this situation occurs when a body is compressed enough that it lies entirely within its event horizon. In classical GR there are a few ways to get to this situation, with perhaps the most common being the collapse of a supermassive star. In classical GR there is also a singularity at the centre of the black hole, but a quantum theory of gravity would be expected to smear this out. What this does not imply is that a quantum theory of gravity would destroy the concept of a black hole entirely -- instead it seems very likely that in a quantum theory of gravity we would retain an event horizon, merely a somewhat "smeared" and non-absolute form of one (a distinction that would seem heartlessly academic to any poor sod falling into a hole). Hawking's conjecture, which is eerily similar to an equally unproven conjecture he advanced a few years back to "prove" that the information paradox was solved, is that ultimately there are no "black holes" because they are not an infinite state -- eventually they will dissipate, which immediately implies that their "event horizons" are actually apparent horizons. So far as this goes, it strikes me as eminently non-controversial.

    Anyway, the concept of a singularity and a black hole are therefore rather distinct.)