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Why the Latest FISA Release By Google Et Al. Means Squat

Nerval's Lobster writes "Google, Yahoo, and other tech firms are offering some updated statistics about government requests for data. There's just one problem: under revised guidelines issued by the federal government, those companies can still only report a range, rather than a definitive number, for those requests. If that wasn't fuzzy enough, the range can only be reported after a six-month lag. Between January and June 2013, Google received between 0-999 FISA 'non-content' requests on 0-999 user accounts; it also fielded between 0-999 'content' requests for between 9000 and 9999 user accounts.Yahoo actually received a larger number of FISA queries than Google: for the first six months of 2013, the federal government made between 0-999 requests on between 30,000 and 30,999 user accounts hosted by the company. ... These companies have little choice but to advocate this new information release as a huge step forward for transparency. Unfortunately, restricting government data requests to a broad range isn't very helpful: for example, a range (rather than a single numerical value) makes it difficult to determine trends, such as whether government requests are gradually increasing over the long term."

36 of 131 comments (clear)

  1. Classic Slashdot by iONiUM · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is off topic, but I'm getting a warning at the top of Slashdot that classic is going to be going away soon (looks like in 4 months).

    How many people will leave if they cut it off completely...?

    1. Re:Classic Slashdot by oodaloop · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seriously considering it, yes.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    2. Re:Classic Slashdot by JLennox · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I do not understand what they're attempting to fix and how they think this new version resolves those issues.

    3. Re:Classic Slashdot by ageoffri · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't know if I'll leave but it wouldn't take much to push me over the edge with the bad redesign. Of course if you want to see an absolutely horrible redesign pull up nbcnews.com

      --
      -- Slashdot, making the Left look conservative since 1997.
    4. Re:Classic Slashdot by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've sent them an email telling them that the minute they make it mandatory, I'm gone.

      Maybe someone should submit this a story. Let's see if the editors are willing to let the community do a little "meta" bitching.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    5. Re:Classic Slashdot by smooth+wombat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I said the same thing. I have no idea what drug the people were on when they considered redesigning nbcnews.com, but if ever there was a drug that needed to be outlawed, that is the one.

      Who in their right mind could possibly think that making a web site look like Windows 8 was a good idea?

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    6. Re:Classic Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I do not understand what they're attempting to fix and how they think this new version resolves those issues.

      The problem: Their hosting costs are too high, caused by too many visitors.
      The answer: Drive the users away.
      ???
      The result: Profit!

    7. Re:Classic Slashdot by neminem · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Presumably like most UI redesigns, they're attempting to fix "looking like they aren't doing anything". The new version fixes that by making it quite clear that they did something. (Like most UI redesigns, "breaking everything horribly" is a pretty good indicator of having done things. Just not *useful* things.)

      As the old saying goes - if it's not broke, fix it 'til it is.

    8. Re:Classic Slashdot by MozeeToby · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Agreed, the classic system is IMO the best comment board on the web today. Why not focus on incremental improvements, getting mobile to work properly, etc? Look, I understand that the beta site has been someone's baby for the past couple years but it's just not a step forward from what exists today. Pushing it to all users would be a mistake.

    9. Re:Classic Slashdot by steamraven · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Interestingly, the things they need to fix are not fixed in the Beta: Like Unicode handling. Its not like this is an international site or anything.

    10. Re:Classic Slashdot by iONiUM · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Is everyone e-mailing feedback@slashdot.org to tell them? I hope so.

    11. Re:Classic Slashdot by gallondr00nk · · Score: 2

      I'll stop posting, but not stop visiting.

      It's all so unnecessary. They don't have to ditch classic at all and plenty of other sites carry a legacy mode. That'd be all I'd ask - that way I wouldn't need javascript just to load comments, or put up with the sidebar taking up half of my screen width.

      It's a shame. The editing is sometimes sketchy and occasionally completely incorrect, the stories can be hysterical or just plain rubbish, but it doesn't matter. The point is that /. often has brilliant contributions from people involved in a wide range of fields. Driving those contributions away will be the death of this site.

      I'm certainly not of their caliber, but I feel that if enough of us simply stopped posting Dice might reconsider.

    12. Re:Classic Slashdot by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      I do not understand what they're attempting to fix and how they think this new version resolves those issues.

      For the same reason TV execs will change the format of a successful show - they think that unless they're "innovating" every season, they're losing ground.

      Of course, it's a ridiculous assumption - the reason The Tonight Show has lasted for 60 years is because it gives the audience something they want, in a format they're accustomed to.

      Dear Slashdot Decision-Makers - Be like The Tonight Show, not like Survivor.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    13. Re:Classic Slashdot by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 3

      Seconded!

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    14. Re:Classic Slashdot by peragrin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The one and only thing I don't like about classic is moderating. bring the beta's moderate functionality to classic and bamn your done.

      though i don't think the feedback teams even care anymore. I think slashdot corporate overlords are pushing new web synergies to modernize, and (insert buzzword bullshit here).

      That is why they keep trying and keep failing. Slashdot is supposed to be content and random posts (some from trolls, some from wannabe, and some from insightful people). you make it not about the discussions and the people will leave.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    15. Re:Classic Slashdot by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      So the editors should give us a proper venue to vent. Until they do, we'll just keep using the mediums made available to use. The Beta site must die or Slashdot will be a lot quieter place.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    16. Re:Classic Slashdot by AJodock · · Score: 2

      You probably wouldn't get downmodded if you were to explain WHY you would leave as soon as it is mandatory instead of just saying it.

      You contributed nothing important to the conversation (slashdot cares about you as a means of making money, but the mods don't care about you leaving), and as such your post has been downmodded to make room for the more relevant posts.

    17. Re:Classic Slashdot by Somebody+Is+Using+My · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Classic Slashdot is mundane, functional, utilitarian. It does the job without much chrome or flash. Geeks love it because it is the epitome of function over form, although to takes some time to read all the comments to get the most out of it. It's a website for hobbyists and the grunts in the field.

      Beta Slashdot is the opposite. It attracts the eye, and is more about the summaries than the comments. It is quick tidbits of tech info that can briefly be skimmed by busy professionals. The comments are less visible because they intended to be a less important part of the place. It changes Slashdot from a community where the bulk of its value comes from the users - which Dice does not own, has no control over and cannot ensure the quality or quantity thereof - and more one where the editors are the ultimate source of the information and content. In other words, it is the sort of site at C-level execs whose message will ultimately be controlled by Dice.

      From where I sit, it looks as if Dice's ultimate goal - and the reason behind its redesign of Slashdot - is not because they want to make it more useful to its current users but because they are trying to orient it more towards CIO and "business intelligence" types. Of course, what makes Slashdot worth visiting is the comments and people interested in the articles have far better choices available to them than Slashdot BI. Dice is sacrificing its current user base in hopes of attracting a more lucrative set of customers. I don't think it will work. Their current base will migrate away to more geek-friendly websites and the hoped for C-levels have little reason to visit this corner of the Internet in the first place.

      All in my opinion, of course.

    18. Re:Classic Slashdot by TWiTfan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I once heard a TV exec who talked about the "New Guy Syndrome." Every time a new network head was brought in, all the existing shows on the network (with the exception of the REALLY successful ones that were vital) were put on the chopping block and everything in development was cancelled. The reason being that the new guy couldn't claim credit for any of the existing stuff, or anything in development that broke out and became a success. So new guy comes in and immediately wants to gut everything and put in all his own stuff, so that he can claim credit to the board for anything successful going forward.

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    19. Re:Classic Slashdot by idontgno · · Score: 2

      I try to restrict myself to one futile gesture per day.

      And since I'm at work, I've already burned through my entire 2014 allocation.

      So, no.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    20. Re:Classic Slashdot by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      In Soviet Russia, Slashdot betas you!

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    21. Re:Classic Slashdot by richlv · · Score: 2

      or fixing unicode support. without complete "redesign" ;)

      --
      Rich
  2. Keep current /. format. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Re: the new one - do not want.

  3. Have a good one by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "for example, a range (rather than a single numerical value) makes it difficult to determine trends"

    Well, a sudden, obvious surge in requests could alert terrorist planners somebody was on to them. That's probably behind both the large ranges and six month delays.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:Have a good one by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      Maybe I missed something, but it appears that you have the first on-topic post on this story. Kudos.

      I agree with you, spot on.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  4. Even a range is helpful by Bruce66423 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It gives an idea of the scale. If they are getting court orders for less than 1000, we can believe they have reason to look at that data. If they are getting orders for 100,000 we KNOW that they are not seriously engaging with the information that they are getting. It's not a great gain, but it's not squat. OTOH if it's all we ever get, then it's probably not worth anything. If nothing else, it gives us hope that we can get more control in the future...

  5. yes by Antipater · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If this is "fine", I don't even want to know what you considered "half-baked". Stories and commenting are literally the only functions available. I can't access my profile, log in/out, look at messages, or see the poll. Hell, it doesn't even show users' sigs.

    --
    Everything is better with chainsaws.
    1. Re:yes by Rich0 · · Score: 2

      Browsing by rating is also really deficient. Sure, you can filter by rating, but there isn't a button that can be used to navigate to a post's parent, or display its children. Headline-only display is also not supported.

      Typically I browse at something like +4 for full comments, and maybe +1 for headlines. Then if a thread is interesting I can expand and read more of it. When looking at a post I can easily hit parent and find its parent even if not displayed.

      The new UI allows none of this.

  6. Re:is this a big deal? by peragrin · · Score: 4, Informative

    Well threading is broken, try following a large thread. you can never figure out where it ends.

        Post limits are gone..( browse at zero unless I am mod. to see AC's but not just trolls)

    It uses about 10% of screen real estate. I mean come one there is so much white space you can use your monitor as a light source.

    Poll's are on every page, because well everyone wants to read the current poll all the time right? and on really long threads that poll section goes all the way to the bottom.

    The only thing I really like. is the new moderate button. that works and looks good.

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
  7. Re:If given a range by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 3, Insightful

    just assume the highest number of it. Case closed.

    mod up... this is the best way to handle the numbers. When looking for trends, you'll know it's trending when the range jumps. But considering the numbers should be in the 0-xxx range, and often aren't, trend analysis is kind of useless; there should already be concern just based on the static range numbers.

  8. "Little Choice?" by CanHasDIY · · Score: 3, Insightful

    These companies have little choice but to advocate this new information release as a huge step forward for transparency.

    Ah, bullshit - they very much could release the full details, but are afraid of government retaliation. That's not the same thing as "having little choice" but to engage an alternative.

    You know why Paul Revere was awesome? Not because he rode a horse yelling some stuff, but because he risked his life and livelihood as a silversmith in the name of Liberty.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  9. UI redesign by swb · · Score: 2

    I'm growing more of the opinion that UI design isn't really about any kind of improvement in usability.

    I think it serves two purposes. The first is simply fashion-oriented -- showing that they "look" up to date and modern.

    The second is really to disorient people enough that users no longer drive their own interest or usage out of the site but instead but instead through obfuscation, feature changes, etc, the people who control the site basically manipulate you into using the site they want, which basically means seeing more ads in most cases.

    As for a Slashdot redesign? In a full web browser its not bad, but I've never understood why a tech site could be so awful for so long on mobile. On a tablet its manageable, on a phone it's not and I just don't get that, unless it's one of those political things, like the people who make code decisions are just angry FOSS users who refuse to accommodate anything that doesn't pass some litmus test.

    The real answer may just be a horrific tangle of Perl dating from the 1990s that just can't accommodate mobile.

  10. Irrelevant.... by PortHaven · · Score: 2

    The only reason they need the FISA requests, is for when they want warrants to pursue people. Having hacked into the main internet backbones the NSA doesn't need warrants to listen or collect. They listen and collect all.

    The issue is that when they want to pursue some legal aspect, pass info to the DEA, etc. Then they have to use proper channels. So they solicity a FISA request and reverse engineer the evidence.

  11. For those in the Exodus by dmomo · · Score: 2

    What's the alternative to awful new slashdot? To where will you be migrating?

  12. Re:is this a big deal? by dknj · · Score: 2

    logged in to comment. am i the only one that goes blind trying to read the text on my monitor? i like the layout for my tablet, but not for my computer. i will be leaving once classic slashdot is terminated

  13. Isn't very helpful by maharvey · · Score: 2

    Unfortunately, restricting government data requests to a broad range isn't very helpful

    Of course it's not very helpful. It was never meant to be, nobody really expected it to be, and I'm sure they went to significant effort to ensure that no utility crept in by accident. As soon as the government allows or does anything, it is foregone that it won't be helpful or useful in any way. It is a tautology.