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HTML5 App For Panasonic TVs Rejected - JQuery Is a "Hack"
An anonymous reader writes "I have been working on an HTML5 app for Panasonic VIERA TVs, specifically a client for the Plex Media Server. After paying $129 for the developer program, version 1.0 was submitted for inclusion in their VIERA Connect marketplace several weeks ago. After a few requested tweaks, they inquired about how the client communicated with the Plex Server. As many/most web developers do, I used jQuery and its $.ajax call (which is just a wrapper for XMLHttpRequest()). They insisted this was not standard Javascript, and after several communications with them, they replied back with "A workaround like this is considered a hack.". I'm stunned that anyone familiar with HTML would consider jQuery a hack. I've been patient in attempting to explain how jQuery works, but I am getting nowhere. Any thoughts on how I can better explain jQuery to an app reviewer? Yes, I know I can write my app without any Javascript library, but I am really hoping avoid that."
http://youmightnotneedjquery.c... ;)
On February 5, 2014, Slashdot announced through a javascript popup that they are starting to "move in to" the new Slashdot Beta design.
Slashdot Beta is a trend-following attempt to give Slashdot a fresh look, an approach that has led to less space for text and an abandonment of the traditional Slashdot look. Much worse than that, Slashdot Beta fundamentally breaks the classic Slashdot discussion and moderation system.
If you haven't seen Slashdot Beta already, open this in a new tab. After seeing that, click here to return to classic Slashdot.
I propose that we boycott stories and only discuss the abomination that is Slashdot Beta until Dice abandons the project.
Moderators - only spend mod points on comments that discuss Beta
Commentors - only discuss Beta
Keep this up for a few days and we may finally get the PHBs attention.
The English word fart is one of the oldest words in the English vocabulary.
It's like they realize that it's some sort of punishment, too. First, they inflicted it on the ACs, now they're redirecting logged in users. I payed them cold hard cash (which I'm regretting now) and as a subscriber they haven't started redirecting me, yet. When they do, I'm out.
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
What is being hacked? What exploit is required to make jQuery.js operate? How does it modify the javascript language to work?
jQuery.js is just a library of script routines designed to make a javascript programmer's life easier, like every other library out there, whether it's for C++, ActionScript, C# or assembler. It's not a binary... it is a collection of javascript functions.
Calling it a hack seems a bit ignorant of what hacks are. I've written hacks... patched XBox XDK libraries so I could get my Media X Menu to access extra hard drives in the system... interrupt routines loaded from DATA statements on my old C=64 that allowed me to display more sprites on screen than the hardware was supposed to display, or to do cool things with the borders. I've written multi-tasking kernels with assembler interspersed with the C code so I could directly access or manipulate hardware in embedded systems. Those are hacks.
At worst, you might call jQuery.js a kluge... but even then, jQuery.js works pretty well and doesn't require you to jump through hoops when making small changes (which kluges tend to do). ...so it's a library. A handy collection of useful routines developers can leverage so they do not have to write all that code again. Nothing more.
JQuery is a hack. A useful one, but still a hack. You should be accountable for all your production code, and there's really nothing jQuery does that you can't do yourself with only a little more effort. http://youmightnotneedjquery.c... #incaseyoumissedit
Spent All My Mod Points
You had the unfortunate luck of having your story picked up during the middle of the slashdot beta shitfest, so most of the comments here will be about that. My condolences. (Also: the new beta sucks.)
Explain that jquery is not a hack or a workaround. It is a framework that is itself written in -- ta da! -- 100% valid javascript. Tell them it is nothing more than a collection of well-written, consistent, standards-based, heavily-reviewed and -tested code, and all it does is contain some pre-written libraries to make it easier to do common tasks.
It is sponsored by many large companies, including Wordpress, BlackBerry, Intel, Mozilla, and Adobe, to pick just the most recognizable names from that page.
According to this, it is used by Google, Facebook, AOL, ESPN, and whitehouse.gov. This 20-month old page also has a big list: WordPress.com, Pinterest, Reddit, MSN.com, WordPress.org, Amazon, Yandex, Microsoft.com, GO.com, Ask.com, ESPN, Craigslist, About.com, Go Daddy, Stack Overflow, Huffington Post, Instagram, Slideshare, Fox News, The Guardian, Etsy, LiveJournal, and Weather.com
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
If I am forced out of Classic, I will leave and never look back.
Fuck beta.
Ok, since you seem to think you know what jQuery is, but clearly don't, it's an API over the native browser APIs, which hacks around various glitches, quirks, and bugs in said native APIs. It also, as a consequence, makes it easier to write certain things than the native APIs often do, but that's NOT it's primary motivation. The vast majority of the code in jQuery is to work around browser issues, hence "jQuery is a hack". If you want to call it a kludge instead, fine. It's still not primarily a convenience library. That doesn't diminish it's usefulness, but don't go pretending it's not a "hack/kludge" when it is.
The "time to develop being as close to zero as possible" thing is only looking at one part of the productivity/profitability angle.
If, for instance, your HTML5 app is able to be co-opted into doing very scary things by feeding it strange inputs for the plex server address, or by using some hack to send it instructions that make it improperly call additional functions in the script library (yes, I know javascript is sandboxed) then the developed application can suddenly be used in more sophisticated hacks, doing exactly what the code in the library was meant to, just not in ways the application was meant to.
This can result in loss of profitability for the company adopting the software and loss of percieved public image and reputation, which can cost the company a good amount of money.
At what point does saving 20 minutes to an hour of programming time trump the costs of the potential externalities?
That doesn't even count the issues with wasting space inside an embedded device's memory to hold code that will, by design anyway, never be executed.
Sometimes the correct course of action is to write the function yourself, and not include yet another library, especially when dealing with embedded or closed platform devices.
Putting a swiss-army knife in a closed platform goes against the purpose behind using a closed platform. The costs of such inclusion can dwarf the savings in development time.
Developer time is not the end-all of the discussion.
I would have modded you flamebait since you are using a reference that contradicts your statement in the first line on the site.- "jQuery and its cousins are great, and by all means use them if it makes it easier to develop your application."http://youmightnotneedjquery.c... #incaseyoumissedit
quoting myself
You can also get independent RSS feeds from each subreddit. sweet!
But... the future refused to change.
What is the native language of a browser?
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
Reddit isn't going to work.
I like Hackaday..
But really, where is the best alternative? Can't use Slashdot much longer with this Beta.
Go to Ars .. and read the stories 3 days before here. Or go to Mac Rumors if you are a fanboy :P
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
The reviewer did not say that jQuery was a hack. The review said that using jQuery to avoid using their predefined interface was a hack.
Whether that interface is so bad that you are driven to use a workaround to get anything done I cannot say. However, you will get nowhere if you argue against an imagined response.
If a large population likes it the way it is, that is valid feedback. It means don't change.
It's possible that /.'s new overlords have thought of that and don't want the current population anymore.
Maybe the format change is a way to push us luddites out.
/And whose bright idea was it to strip almost all the Green out of beta?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
http://beta.slashdot.org/submi...
use the non-minified version.
when you submit stuff that gets vetted by some moderation into online javascript appstores-within-apps-or-devices then it is STANDARD PRACTICE to submit non-minified code for readability.
the theory is that they can see that you're not going to do anything to hack the tv, spotify or whatever. this is standard on all that I've submitted apps into.
and no, they don't actually read the code and see what it does.
so use the non-minified version.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I think you forgot: Fuck Beta
Also, fuck beta.
And now I have a new signature. Thanks!
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
I tried to post a comment on beta the other day. I wanted to be a coward, but there was no check box. So in trying to find a convenient way without logging out, I ended up back on the front page without the comment I already wrote, and the back button on the browser was even disabled. How the hell did that happen? Fuck beta.
I sometimes ask revealing, often ignorant-seeming questions. Maybe they're harder to answer than you think.