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ICANN's Cozy Relationship With the US Must End, Says EU

alphadogg writes "The exclusive relationship of ICANN with the U.S. must end, said the European Union's digital agenda chief on Wednesday. California-based ICANN is responsible for the assignment of top-level domains and has a long-standing operating agreement with the U.S. However, following the revelations by Edward Snowden of widespread surveillance of the Internet by the National Security Agency, many countries have questioned the arrangement. The historical relationship, noted in ICANN's Affirmation of Commitments, is outdated and the governance of the Internet must become more global, said the E.U. Digital Agenda Commissioner Neelie Kroes. Kroes was presenting the European Commission's new policy on Internet governance, which rejects any United Nations or governmental takeover of Internet governance and calls for a move to globalize ICANN."

28 of 193 comments (clear)

  1. Huh? by Dan+East · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm failing to understand the issue here. Anything ICANN does is essentially public. Any changes to domain IP addresses have to propagate out to everyone, so it's not like they could cause traffic to be arbitrarily rerouted, etc. Sounds like just another straw man attempt to get the ICANN out of the US.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
    1. Re:Huh? by JoshuaZ · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Worse than that. A lot of countries outside the US would likely use ICANN to restrict content. China might want to restrict websites which talk about all sorts of things. European countries would want to restrict hate speech and Holocaust denial. Islamic countries would want to restrict blasphemous websites. Etc. For all the many faults of the US, ICANN is one thing that must stay in US hands if we value free speech.

    2. Re:Huh? by SJHillman · · Score: 2

      Pretty convenient that the first of the new gTLDs approved were in Arabic, Chinese and Russian.

      See: http://tech.slashdot.org/story...

    3. Re:Huh? by 1s44c · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you trust the US government? If so you are the only one that does.

    4. Re:Huh? by ChadL · · Score: 2

      One problem with ICANN now is that they hold the root DNSSEC keys, so anyone who controls the strings of ICANN can spoof otherwise secured DNS records (and the associated SSH/PGP/HTTPS key pinning done with said records). The NSA, for example, I'm sure would be interested in the ability to man in the middle domains that are seen as important (ones that someone bothered to sign with DNSSEC).
      I'm also sure that the GCHQ is equally interested in getting their hands on said keys.

    5. Re:Huh? by jopsen · · Score: 2

      Worse than that. A lot of countries outside the US would likely use ICANN to restrict content. China might want to restrict websites which talk about all sorts of things. European countries would want to restrict hate speech and Holocaust denial. Islamic countries would want to restrict blasphemous websites. Etc. For all the many faults of the US, ICANN is one thing that must stay in US hands if we value free speech.

      DNS filtering is already happening... there are pros and cons, it'll never be standardized or required by international law.

      An no, don't tell me to trust the US to safe guard free speech... You openly violate human right, torture and spy illegally on millions of people on a unprecedented scale. (Don't tell me spying is legal, it's a clear violation human rights convention). Oh, and skip the arguments, that the human rights convention shouldn't be honored, I don't even want to hear it.

      Fact of the matter is that the US has lost is credibility and we can't trust you anymore. Ideally, agreement should be more distributed, for instance DNSSEC keys should be held by multiple independent entities in different countries. Places out side the reach of the NSA.

  2. Re:Just a political statement by Sockatume · · Score: 2

    If you had made it to the end of the summary, you'd see that they are in fact asking for decentralisation and reject the role of the UN or any other single body in its operation.

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  3. UK invented HTTP. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    So we get that little bonus.

    We inveted your language. We get that little bonus.

    France invented your democratic process. They get that little bonus.

    Scotland invented the TV, they get that little bonus.

    Oh, no, you're merkins, therefore American Exceptionalism To The RESCUE!!!!

    1. Re:UK invented HTTP. by Puls4r · · Score: 2, Informative

      Despite your sarcasm, you're right.

      The countries that invented that particular item can go ahead and specify anything they want inside their borders. If countries outside those borders don't like it, then they can ignore it.

      ICANN is no different. Don't like it? Then go make your own. Just because the internet has gained universal acceptance doesn't mean you get a say in how it's administered in the US. There is nothing saying you can't stick a bunch computers between your country and the internet and administer everything inside your own borders any way you want. If you want it to work on *our* internet, then make it compatible with ICANN. If not, get out.

      Am I being rude? Yes. Because I'm pretty sure ANY country would react the same way to a bunch of other countries constantly whining about something like this. It took hold in the US first, and we went through creating the system so it works. You guys plugged in. If you don't like it - then unplug.

    2. Re:UK invented HTTP. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We inveted your language. We get that little bonus.

      Which is why you maintain control of the Oxford English Dictionary. When we became America we didn't like it, so Daniel Webster made our own Americanized dictionary, instead of trying to insert our opinions/culture into your dictionary. You're free to do the same with whatever shitty network you have inside your borders.

    3. Re:UK invented HTTP. by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course you are right, but we in the US also have a vested interest in keeping the internet coherent as much as possible. Giving the EU more control might eventually be in our best interest. After all, we, too, can always separate from them if they steer in a direction that we do not like.

      What I absolutely do not support is UN control. The UN is primarily there to prevent nuclear powers from going to war, and thus far it has done a fine job of that. Most of the members are shitheads with far more restrictive speech laws than the US. The EU, on the other hand, really only differs from the US in hate speech. If they could be persuaded to not enforce hate speech laws through ICANN, I don't have a problem with giving them influence.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    4. Re:UK invented HTTP. by sudden.zero · · Score: 2

      Amen, brother! If you don't like it then unplug your Ethernet cable and GTFO!

    5. Re:UK invented HTTP. by Anonyme+Connard · · Score: 2

      The EU, on the other hand, really only differs from the US in hate speech

      They also differ in many things considered as "outrageous" or "inappropriate" in the US and not in the EU.

    6. Re:UK invented HTTP. by jythie · · Score: 2

      The thing about nice neutral countries though is they rarely fight to be put in charge of things. I would love to see, for instance, Denmark put in charge of ICANN, but they are not about to wrestle it away from the US and no one strong enough to make the US back down is going to just hand it off to a country that might be responsible with it.

    7. Re:UK invented HTTP. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

      Most of the [UN] members are shitheads with far more restrictive speech laws than the US.

      Exactly. The call for "control of the Internet" to go to the UN is really a call by some countries to outlaw anything online that they find offensive/inconvenient/annoying/etc. I can post a rant about President Obama using horrible language and even some claims that have been disproved a dozen times and I'm perfectly fine unless I make a threat on his life. In which case, expect a visit from the Secret Service as it is their job to protect the President's life. Even then, you might not be immediately arrested depending on their threat assessment. Do the same thing in China, for example, (criticize the leaders without threatening violence) and you might not be as lucky. Do it in North Korea and both you and your family will be very "unlucky." However, I - within the United States - can criticize the Saudi government all I want with no repercussions and they don't want this. If they had their way, this would be an offense worthy of extraditing me to their country over to stand trial. (Even if you had a decent chance of not being extradited, the threat along would be enough to quiet most people.) In other words, the Internet under UN control (and thus under these nations' influences) would become a draconian environment subject to the strictest laws of any land it might possibly reach.

      Is the US perfect? Of course not. But these countries are far, far worse and letting them decide what should be legal or illegal online would be a huge mistake.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    8. Re:UK invented HTTP. by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      I don't, mainly because I'm pretty sure everyone else is doing it to. It sucks, but the idea that the NSA alone is spying on everything is BS. We know the Germans, French and Chinese are doing it, and I suspect the only countries that are not are countries that don't have the financial capacity to do so.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    9. Re:UK invented HTTP. by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 3, Funny

      It evolved from a conglomeration of Germanic, French, and Latin.

      Evolution is heresy. Jesus spoke perfect US English the moment he rode a dinosaur out of his virgin mother's cooch. Yippee ki-yay.

    10. Re:UK invented HTTP. by Score+Whore · · Score: 2

      The US weapons probably work.

    11. Re:UK invented HTTP. by mars-nl · · Score: 2

      Lately it seems that every government is trying to control the internet. So whoever is going to control the internet, it must not be a government or organization of governments. Or a commercial corporation. I vote for a non-profit organization consisting of different people from different countries who understand technology. This is basically what ICANN is, but without the US Government controlling it. Let's move ICANN's office from California to Switzerland or something.

  4. Globalize where? by quietwalker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So the problem seems to be that ICANN is an american corporation, and thus subject to the laws of the US, and that in turn, could be used against foreign powers?

    The solution then is to 'globalize' it? Where is it going to be 'globalized' to? Which country could it exist in where it would have immunity to any laws and act with impunity in regards to them?

    When I see the complaints against it by China, Russia, the EU, and so on, they're always advocating more restrictions, protection of their interests. They want the ability to blacklist sites that talk about their politicians, that discuss unfavorable religions or religious rights, that cover alternative lifestyles such as gay or transgender, and so on. They want to do it without arbitration, automatically.

    What they really are complaining about is that they don't have absolute control over it, and they want it. Everything else is just a pleasant lie or deliberate misdirection.

    Let's be fair; the US has more than it's fair share of faults, but our definition of freedom is still incredibly wide reaching compared with the vast majority of countries in the world, and we're big enough to make it hard to push us around with political power alone. That's the big problem they're seeing. ... besides, use of the current DNS registry system is entirely voluntary. There's nothing to stop someone from coming up with their own, like the TOR network did. If it's better, people will use it over the current one. Though, I think they realize that any replacement that is more strictly controlled will never be considered 'better', so they need to subvert the current one.

    1. Re:Globalize where? by sahuxley · · Score: 2

      A bit of a sidetrack, but this is what most disappointed me about the whole NSA surveillance thing. We (the US) have probably the greatest ability of any country to protect freedom on the internet and be a force for free speech and expression in the world, yet our trampling of the 4th amendment is squandering that. We *claim* to bring freedom to other countries with guns and bombs, yet fail an opportunity to bring it to them with technology and computers.

  5. "Must" does not mean what you think it means by sirwired · · Score: 3, Funny

    The US "must" do this? I do not think that word means what you think it means.

    I can see why the EU and/or UN would want the US to give up control over the ICANN contract, but every time this comes up, I have yet to see a single reason presented as to why the US would agree to do it.

    Diplomacy involves the practical application of either the proverbial Carrot or Stick or Both. "Do this or I'll write further Official Letters demanding it" is not much of a stick, and it certainly isn't a carrot.

  6. Re:Just a political statement by 1s44c · · Score: 2

    They want the current DNS hierarchy to be split into different hierarchies that all follow the same model. They want to turn US control into country or EU control. Same nonsense, different tyrants.

    What the world needs is something peer2peer and cryptographically strong.

  7. Very Little Correlation by opscure · · Score: 2

    I fail to see how internet addressing and numbering is directly related to the NSA (and GCHQ, which Neelie Kroes fails to mention) spying on individuals. Also the argument of agility seems a bit off too. Once you start adding a multitude of (governments) stakeholders to any project, things tend to slow down not become more agile.

  8. The winner! [Re:Lost cause] by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 2

    I've given up on the internet.

    Posting "I've given up on the internet" on the internet wins today's oxymoron prize.

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  9. Re:Invent your own internet then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Nevermind that Europe, while better on privacy rights, is far worse on freedom of speech rights.

    Not sure where you get this from, but I see this nonsense reiterated quite a bit here.
    I'd be perfectly fine here sitting in the middle of Germany and saying that I'd like to see Israel get bombed flat or that the Jews are inferior people. Sure, people will think I'm an asshole, but there's no law against that. There is however a law that forbids you to claim that there was not a huge number of jews killed in WW2 or that concentration camps don't exist.
    The French hate speech laws are of a similar nature, solving highly specific real world problems. One can debate the method of doing this via law, but in general European constitutions regard Free Speech as a paramount right, with verry narrow exceptions.

    Here's something more closer to reality:

    Nevermind that Europe, while miles better on privacy rights, is about equal (with few exceptions you'd have to hunt for) on freedom of speech rights.

    captcha: nimble

  10. Re:If not the UN then who? by kheldan · · Score: 2

    Apparently you didn't read my entire comment because you missed shortly after that where I said that I don't know who or what should be shaping the Internet in the future.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  11. Free Speech by Salgat · · Score: 2

    The only reason why it's acceptable to allow ICANN to be controlled by the U.S. is because they have the strongest free speech laws. I simply don't trust other countries as much as the U.S. in that regard.