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11-Year UK Study Reports No Health Danger From Mobile Phone Transmissions

Mark.JUK writes "The United Kingdom's 11-years long Mobile Telecommunications and Health Research Programme (MTHR) has today published a comprehensive report that summarizes 31 research projects, which investigated the potential for biological or adverse health effects of mobile phone and wireless signals on humans (e.g. as a cause for various cancers or other disorders). The good news is that the study, which has resulted in nearly 60 papers appearing in peer-reviewed scientific journals, found 'no evidence' of a danger from mobile transmissions in the typically low frequency radio spectrum bands (e.g. 900MHz and 1800MHz etc.)."

32 of 180 comments (clear)

  1. Low Frequency by inasity_rules · · Score: 3

    So, 900MHz is the new LF band. Now where did I put my 2m VHF handheld...?

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    I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
    1. Re:Low Frequency by telchine · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sadly I lost my ham license while immigrating to a new country. I should really go get it sorted

      You can do it online ;-)

      http://totl.net/Ham/

    2. Re:Low Frequency by inasity_rules · · Score: 3, Informative

      No. Please see wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...

      That is technically the UHF band.

      --
      I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
  2. It doesn't matter. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Scares usually persist long after any scientific backing is gone. Look at anti-vax, for example - the one study showing a link between vaccines and autism has not only been discredited but exposed as an outright fraud by a doctor who was paid to produce specific results. Yet the anti-vax movement continues to believe in the connection regardless. Or the abortion-breast-cancer link - originating in a study which misinterpreted results due to the lack of a true control group and now rejected by just about every reputable cancer-related organisation. Yet, once again, belief in the link remains widespread in the pro-life movement - largely because they wish it were true. This is the same thing again - it doesn't matter how many studies show no adverse effects, we're still going to see a lot of people claiming wireless networks gives them a migraine and worrying about phone-induced cancer.

    1. Re:It doesn't matter. by ledow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A determined idiot can be an almost unresolvable roadblock.

      It doesn't mean we should stop beating sense into them, though. I find it much more scary that something like 50% of Americans believe that astrology has some effect on their life... at least these people are basing their prejudices on something that appeared (for a while, in a modern environment) scientifically plausible.

      Sorry, but until we can eliminate the UFO-believers( and the astrologers and palm-readers and the conspiracy theorists, and whole swathes of others) we don't stand a chance of having no misinformation being spread by idiots about health-scares.

      Go ask people about swimming on a full stomach. Then find out the truth (it makes no difference!). We're in the Misinformation Age.

    2. Re:It doesn't matter. by MrMickS · · Score: 2

      The problem about not believing this sort of report is that there will always be some pseudo scientific journalism piece that will highlight a leukaemia cluster, or similar, near a phone mast. The fact that it doesn't happen around all, or a significant number, of phone masts won't make the piece. The conclusions will be incorrectly drawn that there is no smoke without fire and that the cause must be the phone mast, regardless of the fact there there are many other factors influencing these people and its likely to be something else.

      A lot of the anti-vax in the UK was linked to a single, now discredited, study that was latched onto by a journalist eager to make a name for themselves with a scoop. The measles outbreak, and potential deaths, that it has led to are as much on their hands as they are on Andrew Wakefield who faked the evidence of the link.

      --
      You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
    3. Re:It doesn't matter. by MrMickS · · Score: 2

      There are still signs around the all of the pumps here banning use of a cell phone in a filling station. The current reasons is because they could cause a spark. Is there any evidence of this, or is it another feeling that's become true by repetition?

      --
      You may think me a tired, old, cynic. I'd have to disagree about the tired bit.
    4. Re:It doesn't matter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, you saw a UFO. That is, it was a Flying Object, and it was Unidentifiable to you. That happens all the time, and various armies, navies & air forces take UFO sightings seriously.

      It's when people start ascribing extra-terrestrial origin nonsense, or claims of alien abduction, where things start to get hokey.

    5. Re:It doesn't matter. by greenfruitsalad · · Score: 2

      and yet you are one of those people. i often see comments about swimming on full stomach here (i'd say from people who either don't swim or eat). if you want to know why it's stupid, eat and drink until you're full, go to bed, lie down on your belly and wait for a burp to come. if you don't barf, you're not human. to better simulate swimming, you should have somebody shake you at the same time.

      BTW, I swim for an hour 4 times a week and have seen this full stomach swimming way too often. when you see a person suddenly stop and stand up in the middle of a pool, they're either burping (if they're quick) or swallowing sick.

    6. Re:It doesn't matter. by Welsh+Dwarf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > I find it much more scary that something like 50% of Americans believe that astrology has some effect on their life...

      But it does, it's called the placebo effect!

      --
      Ask 8 slackers a question, get 10 awnsers (a citation, but I can't remember from who)
    7. Re:It doesn't matter. by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 2

      You'd think Fins would be more susceptible to gill rot or swim bladder rupture or some other fishy disease.

    8. Re:It doesn't matter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Some of us have strong enough stomach valve muscles to be able to be horizontal on a full stomach.

      Some of us can't handle fast blinking reddish lights. Some people get sea sick or puke when watching 1st person shooters. Others puke when people near them puke (an evolutionary good idea if you're all eating the same food and someone gets sick). Some people sneeze when you flash a light in their face. Humans have very few magnetic sensitive cells but we do have some. If someone says he can feel when he's facing north no matter the time of day there's reason to believe him. Just because something is rare doesn't mean it can't happen. Some people have allergic reactions to light.

      It's not hard to believe that a few people can be affected by every new tech we created. It's unlikely that many people are affected by most radio spectrum bands, but I'd bet money that someone out of the 7 billion people on the planet does have some type of issue. It's even more believable when you learn that your heart responses to different radio frequencies by beating differently: http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/90/5/2299

      People need to keep their minds open. It's an interesting world and we know very little about how it all works.

    9. Re:It doesn't matter. by ledow · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yep. This is what annoys me.

      I totally, 100% believe in extra terrestrial life. The Drake equation and simple statistics says that there has to be some - even if it's just a scientist "hunch".

      But I cannot fathom why people think they are visiting us in little spaceships that happen to look EXACTLY like the movie little space ships (yet, before movies, reports all looked like descriptions from popular sci-fi books, etc.).

      I can't walk down a street without being caught on a thousand CCTV cameras. I wouldn't be able to send up a Chinese lantern without the local police coming to find out who did it. Hell, if someone comes in and is spotted by the military the first we're likely to know is from the fallout when they try to blow it out of the sky thinking it's an enemy deviating from their airspace.

      Yet, somehow, these aliens with inter-system flight technology always seems to be "just" caught in blurry, out-of-focus, tiny image as just a fleeting dot and yet nobody else in the area notices anything at all. Until you ask them. Then they saw five guys in silver suits.

      I believe in "U.F.O."'s (the unidentified object kind). The theories for what they are is absolute crap as they have only ever turned out to be aircraft, sunlight, camera aberrations, and hoax.

      Hell, some bloke phoned 999 in the UK and reported a strange light in his garden hovering over him. Ten minutes later he called back to apologise as it was "The Moon". The clip plays on every "funny clip" show on TV. When you factor that into UFO reports, you really have to wonder how the human race manages to get to work in the mornings.

    10. Re:It doesn't matter. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      Here. this should help a bit.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    11. Re:It doesn't matter. by Mashdar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1) You must burp a lot more than I do. It's unusual if I burp twenty times in a week unless I've been drinking beer. (The other end is another matter, but I eat a LOT of beans!)

      2) I frequently eat until the next helping would make me sick. It's slightly pathological, but useful for this conversation.

      3) I have never once noticed a problem with burping in bed. Maybe I just don't burp enough?

      4) In college I used to swim for at least 30 minutes daily, and I literally never had a problem with a full stomach (again, perhaps I don't burp enough?). I don't recall anyone else in the lap pool stopping suddenly, but I am not particularly observant, especially with my face under water.

      5) The myth about swiming on a full stomach is that you will have a cramp and drown. It has nothing to do with being sick. GP was refering to that myth, and your comment has nothing to do with it.

    12. Re:It doesn't matter. by PPH · · Score: 2

      And the source of that spark was the possibility of someone dropping a cell phone and the battery shorting out. Particularly back in the old days, phones (DynaTac 'bricks' for example), had quite sizable batteries. And the area up to 18 inches above the ground around a gas pump is considered to be an explosion hazard area due to accumulated vapor. So dropping something like a cell phone was determined, by analysis, to be a possible hazard.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    13. Re:It doesn't matter. by Sockatume · · Score: 2

      "It's not hard to believe"... but there's no evidence that it is the case, and copious evidence otherwise.

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      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    14. Re:It doesn't matter. by skids · · Score: 2

      We are having to face this at work. In order to upgrade our WiFi network to 11ac we are going to have to double the number of APs and put many of them inside dormatory rooms. Despite current lack of evidence as to any health effects (notwithstanding placing the AP 2 feet from where your head is when you sleep, which is against official recommendations and we plan to make impossible,) housing will probably offer people an option as to whether they prefer one of the rooms that does not have them, or at least have to deal with complaints. I don't blame them if they do -- a college housing department isn't the right place to have a showdown over scientific research, and on the off chance that some hitherto unsurveyed adverse effect does become evident, liability issues could ensue.

      As far as the anti-vax people go there were a small but significant number of parents who noticed autism start to develop very close to the time when their children got vaccinated. This could have been coincidence or it could have been due to the children having gene expressions that made them susceptible to some adverse reaction, and studies that look at the general population might not be able to tease out any statistical signifigance if there is a small subpopulation that is more susceptible. The thimerisol connection was apparently a mass-media-induced panic, but I can't blame the parents for wanting an explanation, and can't expect them to all be scientists nor really expect them to even have a bearing as to which scientific authorities are trustworthy, given the current influence of money on research. People love to hate on them for some reason, but I refuse to.

    15. Re:It doesn't matter. by DiscountBorg(TM) · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ah, the old -science will all be wrong in 20 years...

      Which is wrong of course, we still make use of Newtonian physics hundreds of years later, and were you to count mathematics, some aspects of mathematics date back thousands of years. It's fair to say that 20 years from now we will still accept phylogenetic trees and we will use physics that allows us to build computers. Science is a process of refinement, a spectrum of probabilities

      The strength of science is that it can in fact discard ideas quickly. If a model is no longer useful, out it goes, or it is altered. I find it odd that the parent assumes that because science has procedures built in to allow it to change when it is wrong, that this somehow equates to astrology therefore being right. Eg science will be wrong in 20 years which it wont)==astrology is right. This does not follow.

      Science has predictive power. Anyone can replicate its results if they replicate the conditions of the experiment. With astrology on the other hand, lots of us have tried it, and it doesn't work. It doesn't stand up to testing. If it worked for everyone, it wouldn't be an issue, but it doesn't. Sure, there's a percentage of people out there who claim it work, but that's to be expected in a large enough population as a statistical probability. You'll find people claiming garlic cloves ward off the flu too. What it comes down to in the end isn't just that such beliefs are wrong--they simply aren't useful for the most of us.

      Of course when the phrase 'be open minded' comes out, this translates as 'crowds who believe in anything for thousands of years can't possibly be wrong, blindly follow them''. When the bandwagon fallacy comes out, you know the ego is at work. Let's talk Tim Leary. Science is the real, ultimate ego death. There's no room for ego in determining objective reality, because objective reality doesn't work the way one wants it to.

      --
      "The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place." George Bernard Shaw
    16. Re:It doesn't matter. by Ravaldy · · Score: 2

      My wife worked at the Toronto general for a few years. During her stay she did care on dozens of girls between the ages of 15 - 18 that all had brain tumours. Of all of these girls most were heavy cell phone users. This at the time had prompted these observations to be submitted to a university (don't remember which one). Now, this could have been a complete coincidence since girls of that age usually do spend lots of time on their phones.

  3. Re:I agree by mjwx · · Score: 4, Funny

    I agree. If I say so, then it must be true!

    B-B-B-But all the astrologers told me this radiomation is dangerous to mi Qi. That and I may face challenges today.

    Who is this "study" to cast doubt on that.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  4. Re:Prediction by jklovanc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is a simple long term study that proves that cell phones do not appreciably increase brain cancer risks. It is the basic cancer statistics. That graph covers the years 1992 to 2010. Over that period of time cancer rated have been pretty steady. Considering the explosion in subscriber after 1998 there should be an explosion in brain cancers. There is not. No correlation therefore no causation.

  5. I am still skeptical by ctrl-alt-canc · · Score: 2

    I looked briefly to some of the reports published by MTHR, and it seems to me that there is a fundamental flaw (pretty much common to many studies published on this topic). The absorbed dose from the tissues is proportional to the transmitter power. Now the transmission power of handeld devices (like GSM) depends from the received SNR at the BTS: actually a negotiation about the power to use takes place between the BTS and the handeld device to limit the transmission power, so that batteries of the handeld unit last more and interference to neighbour BTS cells is reduced. IIRC power can be varied between 1 milliwatt and 8 watt, i.e. three orders of magnitude. If this enormous variation of the radiated power (and of the absorbed dose) hasn't been taken into account in the study (as I suspect), the research conclusions are very questionable.

    1. Re:I am still skeptical by inasity_rules · · Score: 2

      But it is an invisible thing that he doesn't understand. Don't interfere with his panic attack with reason or logic. Fear of what you can't see is a cornerstone of our society. Never mind the EM radiation coming out of his (probably 2GHz) computer. Or the wifi. Or, the X-rays from the sun. These aren't relevant, cell phones are evil cancer causing devices!

      --
      I have determined that my sig is indeterminate.
    2. Re:I am still skeptical by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      Just like the flawed science in climate change and evolution.

      The difference between conservatives and liberals with science is that conservatives refuse that something will be bad for them vs liberals refuse to believe that something new is not harming them.

      They are both refusing to believe science because it messes up their world view.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:I am still skeptical by dbIII · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Before you laugh you need to add the words "low intensity" (which this most definitely is) since high intensity non-ionizing radiation is a known hazard. Enough to make you warm by induction alone (which is a hell of a lot of RF) is a big problem and that's why the really dangerous stuff gets shielded before anyone is expected to work near it. Faulty shielding in some RF welders for plastic seams caused quite a few miscarriages in one factory a few decades ago.
      Still don't believe me? Microwave ovens use non-ionizing radiation. Several orders of magnitude more than if you had your head stuffed in the transmitting dish from one of these towers, but it's the intensity and not the type of radiation that divides safe as background from cooked in two minutes.

    4. Re:I am still skeptical by dbIII · · Score: 2

      They are not "conservatives". That's just the sugar coating so that the travelling medicine show scam tweaked into dumbed down Christianity can hide that it is about control and hatred instead of anything Jesus spoke about. They see biologists, geologists and climatologists as hated enemies getting in the way of their rubbish about an unchanging earth - and they've lumped in the rest of science in as fellow travellers.
      Bit of a rant, but that's what we are facing.

  6. Re:Prediction by Warma · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The anti-vax thing is entirely different, because by choosing not to become vaccinated, you are increasing existential risk for others. Being of that mindset is internally consistent only, and only if you really think, that harming others based on your personal beliefs, is justified.

    However, even being internally consistent does not necessarily mean, that you are doing the smart thing or even that you are doing the right thing. Please think about this.

  7. Re:Prediction by jklovanc · · Score: 4, Informative

    Cancer.gov as in U.S. government as in the most trusted source in studies.

    Your best shot is a general disbelief of anything coming from a government agency? Get real. Look at any epidemiology report from anywhere on earth and you will fine no increase in brain cancers. If you don't believe that one then try this one as it is non-governmental.

    If dog poo is present and no one got sick then dog poo is safe. If you do the same test on millions of people in ever increasing numbers over 15 years and there is no upward trend in illness then dog poo is safe. If dog poo was unsafe there should be at least a few people who got sick. There are two parts to a study; correlation and causation. Correlation asks the question is there a similar trend in two factors. For example, the increased presence of dog poo and the increased incidence of illness. The second step is to prove if that correlation might be caused by a third factor. Possibly the presence of dog urine also increases with the presence of dog poo and it is the urine that is causing the issue and not the poo. If the correlation step fails there is no possible causation. There had been a dramatic increase in the number of cell phones used yet no increase in the rate of brain cancers. There is no correlation therefore no possible causation.

  8. Grain of Salt by sociocapitalist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How many studies were there that showed that smoking wasn't bad for your health?

    It would be interesting to know who funded all the referenced studies, as well.

    --
    blindly antisocialist = antisocial
  9. Re:Prediction by Bengie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As for the anti-vax thing, I don't feel the government should force us to be vaccinated. It should be a personal decision between patient, parent, and doctor.

    Except in exceptional situations like a family history of adverse reactions, not getting vaccinations is about as much child abuse as only feeding a child candy for their entire life. Not only is that detrimental to the child, but it is also a huge risk for the rest of society.

    If people get to willingly choose not to get vaccinated(assuming we have high quality vaccinations), other people should have the choice of not allowing willingly unvaccinated people near them in any way. Turn it into a crime of attempted murder with malicious intent.

    For me, vaccinations rank right up there with courts and law enforcement, as a modern requirement for a health society. Again, assuming we have stringent requirements on the quality of vaccines.

  10. Meta-junk-science about junk science by Nightlight3 · · Score: 2

    This "study" is meta-junk-science about other meta and non-meta junk science (epidemiology) contracted by the telecom industry & regulators (i.e. the future & former industry consultants). As they acknowledge in the report, experiments are left for the future research.

    I would like to see animal experiments replicating typical exposures of someone keeping the phone in their pocket or on their head all day. Or teens talking on the phone for hours day after day. Also model of pregnant woman having the phone inches away from the fetus throughout pregnancy. The animal studies should also follow test and control groups for the whole lifespans of animals (e.g. lab mice and rats live only 2-3 years so it shouldn't be a big problem).

    Another aspect, also left for future research, are the effects of mobile & Wi-Fi exposures on large organic molecules in the cells. This is very relevant since such molecules have photon frequencies (or energies) of various quantum transitions (e.g. those involved in protein folding or enzyme actions) in the GHz frequency ranges. Resonances with such molecular processes could have more subtle and narrow effects (e.g. on some cognitive and immune functions) for which epidemiology and even animal experiments are much too blunt to detect.