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Australia and NSA Gain Comprehensive Access To Indonesian Phone System
An anonymous reader writes "Newly disclosed documents from former US intelligence contractor Edward Snowden reveal that in Australia with the NSA has gained comprehensive access to Indonesian's national communications systems. They tapped into Indosat, Indonesia's domestic satellite telecommunications provider including data on Indonesian officials in various government ministries and obtained 1.8 million encrypted master keys, used to protect private communications, from Indonesia's Telkomsel cell phone network. Australia has been recently criticized for tapping the phone of the Indonesian President's wife and for the Royal Australian Navy accidental incursions into Indonesian territorial waters."
It's like masturbation, except usually you stop for a minute or two when you get caught masturbating. The NSA will look you in the eye and keep doing what they're doing. Think about it...
You're masturbating and someone opens the door and catches you. Instead of acting embarred you simply say 'hi' and continues masturbating. You're asked what you're doing. As your hand continues to play with your genitals, you look them in the eye and simply say 'nothing wrong'. "you're masturbating" they say. You refuse to address this directly and instead say you'll 'look into the matter'. Your breathe increases as your hand never stops. You never break eye contact with the stunned person before you. They continue to question you. You continue to pleasure yourself as you deny acknowledgement that your going to give yourself an orgasm. But the really creepy part is the eye contact.
You're masturbating and someone opens the door and catches you.
Yes, but in a general sense, there's nothing wrong with masturbating.
You need to expand your scenario:
"...at the office."
"...in your car."
"...while paying the pizza delivery guy."
Something like that.
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You made my day !
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I wish people would stop making this statement.
a) It's just an opinion, and there's little other than anecdotal evidence to back this statement up. I'd also hazard that it's not universally true.
b) It implies this is the natural state of things and that it should be accepted.
c) It implies there aren't laws against this, which there are.
I was wondering when we would start seeing more coverage of the NSA here.
Damn, the time I wish I had mod points... This is brilliant!
I didn't mind the odd general discussion on how they compromised Google etc but an awful lot of money has now just gone down the tube for no useful purpose except perhaps to satisfy a Gen-Y's sudden burst of conscience.
Pretty sure Indonesian law forbids it. Guess that doesn't count.
Seriously. These are spy organizations. And here they are - spying. On foreign countries, no less. What were they thinking?
The Snowden leaks started out with things the public actually needed to know. The NSA spying on Americans is a gross overstep of the organization's charter. Spying on friendly nation's leaders is an embarrassment. This, however, seems to me like them doing their job.
At first, I thought that labeling Snowden as a spy was an overreaction. The US government trying to silence a whistle blower. However, were I a juror in a trial in which he released just this document, I'd convict.
Anyone who disagrees is kindly requested to answer two simple questions:
1. What should the NSA do?
2. Assuming this is not this, how can a country maintain military intelligence without doing this?
Shachar
You're right: it doesn't count.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Phone tapping national leaders 'normal', says former Indonesian spy chief
Indonesia's former top spy master has accused his own President of exaggerating the problem of phone tapping, saying attempts by intelligence agencies to snoop on national leaders were "normal".
And former spy agency chief Abdullah Mahmud Hendropriyono has also punctured claims by his Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa that Indonesia would never tap the phones of Australian politicians, insisting it was a routine part of "black intelligence". .....
Mr Hendropriyono, the head of Badan Intelijen Negara (BIN) until 2004, has been thrust into the Australian political debate because of a TV interview he gave in 2004, in which he admitted to bugging Australian politicians. .....
In an interview with Fairfax Media, the former Indonesian army general has now amplified his 2004 comments, saying of Australia's attempts to listen to the conversations of President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, the first lady and their confidantes: "For intelligence, it's normal."
He added that Indonesia not only had the capacity to tap the phones of Australians, but that intelligence agencies also had a responsibility to try it, "friend or foe". .....
Asked if Indonesia could listen to Mr Abbott's phone, he said: "We have the ability to tap and to counter-tap". However, he also suggested that Australian counterintelligence would prevent this happening.
Mr Hendropriyono said human intelligence — what he called "white intelligence" — was standard practice in embassies worldwide, but that phone tapping was "the most reliable" way to confirm information gathered.
"Tapping and counter-tapping is quite common in the intelligence life, because it is one of their primary jobs," he said. .....
"Intelligence is judged like in sport, two boxers fighting in the ring. They punch and they counter-punch... They attack and they defend themselves, but it is in the ring — the ring of intelligence. If the officials, in this case politicians, interfere in the case, that is wrong. That is very wrong."
Now that it is in the political arena, the politicians have overreacted, he said. ....
"I hope that both our leaders, SBY as well as Tony Abbott should not be too emotional... Please do not deteriorate [the relationship] because of a very small thing. This is a very technical thing."
Yes another US ally screwed by a Snowden leak. Can we assume at this point that we'll be hearing nothing about China, Russia, or Iran? Remember how Snowden claimed that he was an expert about Chinese activities and taught classes on them? I wonder what happened to that material?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
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If it isn't yet considered an act of war, it's soon going to be. Wait for it. Shit's about to get interesting.
just did, try soylentnews.org
check out www.soylentnews.org a community-driven alternative
So you think that the Indonesians don't do that sort of thing? Or the Chinese (communists)? Or the Soviets back in the day? LOL .....
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
1. It's not masturbating. They are back-dooring EVERYBODY.
2. Obviously, they can only look you in the eye if there is a mirror present.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Indonesia's phone system is fairly meh in the first place. This isn't something terribly difficult to achieve.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
His opinion is useful, yours, not so much.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
You're masturbating and someone opens the door and catches you.
Yes, but in a general sense, there's nothing wrong with masturbating.
"... while listening in to someone elses private conversation."
"... while looking at intercepted pictures."
"... while reading your XKEYSCORE results on 'steamy secret agent sex'"
More like that.
So you think that the Indonesians don't do that sort of thing? Or the Chinese (communists)? Or the Soviets back in the day? LOL .....
Pissing context again? Is it indeed desirable to have NSA winning the competition with the NKVD of the older days?
It becomes boring... com'on, what parents you have that didn't teach you this is not a valid justification for wrong-doings.
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
It really depends where the telco loops are, taps and it all is been 100% split down to Australia and its NSA shared sites vs some best effort within Asia that gets 'most'.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
You seem to have missed the context. Note this statement that I was responding to:
Listening in on dialogues relating to trade disputes has capitalism written all over it.
Pretty much every major country is going to try to gather intelligence on matters important to it. Do you deny that?
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
This in nothing new Indonesia has had a full understudying of Australian real time mil communications tracking, decrypting and translation thanks to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1...
Once you hear about you nations radio traffic on another countries news, you know their skills.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
"everyone" smokes dope too.
still they put people in the slammer for 30 years for doing it 3 times at some places.
look man, they're breaking the law and they made contracts that they wouldn't do it. you keep up with this shit and no country will give a shit about usa's (or australias) extradition requests and will just print them out to wipe their asses with them while some finance/hack/whatever crooks keep on scamming americans for their cash.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Why not spy on your own citizens? Why not on "friendlies"? Who made up the line? Who decides these things? In the US it is supposed to be We The People. Yeah, right.
Spying is evil. Perhaps a necessary evil. However, giving a monopoly on spying to the government, especially with runaway "secrecy" and classification of everything under the sun is absurd.
If spying is OK for some, then it has to be OK for all. If the NSA can spy, so can corporations, so can news agencies, so can reporters, so can individuals, so can Snowden. So there is no crime here, just the NSA was not as good at spying (or counter-spying) as ONE PERSON!
If only certain special, super-secret orgs can have the permission to spy, then I want them to be purer than the virgin. We already see from revelations that they are nowhere close (like NSA operative spying on love interests.) I want them to be smarter than the average spy. Whoops, one Snowden shows the NSA are basically incompetent, corrupt buffoons. You want these people (only) spying for the whole country? Why?
I want to know everything government and country does. Might have to settle for 99.99%. Otherwise democracy is inoperative.
Except right now we only know 75%, or 50%, or maybe 25%. We don't know how much we don't know. In this state there is no democracy. Domestic enemies become more dangerous than foreign. Fish rots from the head.
No matter how you slice it, Snowden is a hero, whether he planned to be one or is just a craven and corrupt attention seeker.
Re Everyone does it. The real question is who has Australian telco keys :) Its the same international NSA/FBI ready expensive, crypto junk rolled out at a national exchange level for digital wiretaps, cell tracking, billing, internet logging .... That is why the Snowden news is so useful - nothing works as sold and many nations have their "unique" secure keys in the hands of other nations, random contractors, ex staff and unexpected 'others'.
Thanks to Snowden a generation of crypto experts, designers and telco staff around the world now have insight into the reality of basic key handling, use and the generational efforts they wasted on 'national' encryption on their own networks.
A lot of nations also have to share networks between their own mil, gov and basic consumer grade telco networks.
So yes "Everyone does it." and after Snowden they will work hard on doing their crypto and networking a bit better.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
There's some pretty good books available about similar things, and worse, in those places. It went as far as a journalist that had been a vocal critic of Putin being murdered on Putin's birthday, and it being very obvious that it was intended to be a present.
So in other words just take it as read that we know that bad things happen in other places.
Goodbye, Cold Fjord.
While your incessant shilling, political doublespeak, out-of-context quoting, thread-diluting gibberish and lack of applicable morality have been interesting...I cannot say, with any grain of truth, that I will miss you.
From the ashes of Slashdot rises http://soylentnews.org/ ....News BY the People, FOR the People.
Or, you know, politicians could just admit outright that intelligence agencies spy on friend and foe alike, and that there are good reasons for it, rather than trying to pull "emperor's new clothes" and having it bite them.
You seem to have missed the context. Note this statement that I was responding to:
Listening in on dialogues relating to trade disputes has capitalism written all over it.
Two can be picky about the context. The original context:
What's the bet that the US administration has less control over its intelligence machinations than the capitalists (wanted to say oligarchy...)?
Regarding your:
Pretty much every major country is going to try to gather intelligence on matters important to it. Do you deny that?
What could be so important for a major and supposedly democratic country to disregard the liberties of all and any person in this world, their own citizens included?
What could be so important that the spying is extended to the officials of another country they are not at war with and neither made a threat with war ?
I don't know what I dislike the most:
* the idea that US administration doesn't have enough control over NSA; or
* the idea the US administration is complicit... nay, scratch that... is deliberately asking NSA to do all these things.
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
Ask Nathan Hale his opinion of spies.
Proof NSA spies on US Citizens = wistle blower.
Methods used to spy on other countries and a list of wich ones = Treason.
The first does no excuse the second.
Folks seem to be missing the point that this involved tapping an American law firm, apparently in order to gain an edge during trade negotiations? (And similar stuff happening during recent climate negotiations?)
That kinda muddies the water I think; people spying on other people for national security is one thing, but when it spills over into the commercial world and UN politics then it's no longer security, but obtaining an advantage by underhand means.
Also, I'm curious - doesn't US law say something about not spying on americans? And aren't even lawyers technically citizens?
I guess as an aussie if the US wants to outsource that sort of thing to us I don't have a huge problem with it, but I would have thought more US folks would be upset... :-)
Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird.
I'm Australian and the last thing we need right now is to piss off the Indonesians further. I kinda wish these documents were kept under wraps forever to be honest.
I'm Australian and I kinda wished that the Aussie spooks wouldn't be so damned interested about Indonesian shrimp trade.: call me stupid, but I believe knowing this is not making Australia more secure.
Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
I bet they got comprehensive access to beta and ran away screaming!
This easily settles any remaining debate about the motives of Edward Snowden.
Disclosing the methods and/or capabilities of the United States to spy on any FOREIGN country is TREASON.
No it isn't.
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.
What war did Snowden levy? What enemies did he give aid and comfort to?
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Ask Nathan Hale his opinion of spies.
Why? I'd guess he thought they were a pretty good thing, since he was one. He was also a traitor, unlike Snowden.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Also, has the attempt at ridiculing someone with an 'LOL' ever really helped?
It's Cold Fjord. His handler probably told him to slip in a few "human" touches to make him sound like "one of the kids".
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Try doing it against USA, and you'll hear bombs on your head.
... cook the american and world people as frogs..... how woudl you ease them into accepting being spied on?
Enter SNOW DEN... the pot being slowly heated
How to know this is simple. It cannot be illegal (as has been claimed of what snow den did) to inform the people of the very acts the Declaration of Independence is against --- "...But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security...."
So it only goes to show what a shill Snow den really is.
Those who think otherwise have been Snowed N.
Your scenario needs something extra. Perhaps you're using some personal item of theirs in the act? Perhaps they're a neighbor and, in order to get it, you would have had to break into their home, then break into some additional private space. Or, perhaps, they didn't walk in on you. Perhaps they were enjoying some private time with their partner and they looked up to see you lounging in a chair in their bedroom, one hand holding a video camera, the other... well, you know. That's still not quite enough though. In addition, when you demand to know what they're doing and that they stop right away, they demand that you ignore them and keep doing what you're doing or they'll have you arrested. Also, they'll have you arrested if you tell anyone what they were doing. That fits a little better.
You know, that would be a great sketch for a sketch comedy show. I haven't really watched any in years. I imagine most sketch comedy shows these days are effectively barred from criticizing heroic organizations like the NSA by corporate policy.