Australia and NSA Gain Comprehensive Access To Indonesian Phone System

An anonymous reader writes "Newly disclosed documents from former US intelligence contractor Edward Snowden reveal that in Australia with the NSA has gained comprehensive access to Indonesian's national communications systems. They tapped into Indosat, Indonesia's domestic satellite telecommunications provider including data on Indonesian officials in various government ministries and obtained 1.8 million encrypted master keys, used to protect private communications, from Indonesia's Telkomsel cell phone network. Australia has been recently criticized for tapping the phone of the Indonesian President's wife and for the Royal Australian Navy accidental incursions into Indonesian territorial waters."

Comments

Re:Everyone does it

[Frosty Piss]

You're masturbating and someone opens the door and catches you.

Yes, but in a general sense, there's nothing wrong with masturbating.

You need to expand your scenario:

"...at the office."
"...in your car."
"...while paying the pizza delivery guy."

Something like that.

Re:Everyone does it

[Anonymous Coward]

I wish people would stop making this statement.

a) It's just an opinion, and there's little other than anecdotal evidence to back this statement up. I'd also hazard that it's not universally true.
b) It implies this is the natural state of things and that it should be accepted.
c) It implies there aren't laws against this, which there are.

It's about time

[Anonymous Coward]

I was wondering when we would start seeing more coverage of the NSA here.

Such a waste of money..

[dubist]

I didn't mind the odd general discussion on how they compromised Google etc but an awful lot of money has now just gone down the tube for no useful purpose except perhaps to satisfy a Gen-Y's sudden burst of conscience.

Re:Everyone does it

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretty sure Indonesian law forbids it. Guess that doesn't count.

In other words - they were doing their job

[Sun]

Seriously. These are spy organizations. And here they are - spying. On foreign countries, no less. What were they thinking?

The Snowden leaks started out with things the public actually needed to know. The NSA spying on Americans is a gross overstep of the organization's charter. Spying on friendly nation's leaders is an embarrassment. This, however, seems to me like them doing their job.

At first, I thought that labeling Snowden as a spy was an overreaction. The US government trying to silence a whistle blower. However, were I a juror in a trial in which he released just this document, I'd convict.

Anyone who disagrees is kindly requested to answer two simple questions:
1. What should the NSA do?
2. Assuming this is not this, how can a country maintain military intelligence without doing this?

Shachar

Re:In other words - they were doing their job

[clockwise_music]

Maybe from an American point of view this isn't such a story. But I can assure you from an Australian and Indonesian point of view this is going to be massive.

The Australian government has already received heaps of flak about phone tapping the Indonesian president's wife which was a very big deal. Indonesia were not happy. The president even took the unprecedented step of tweeting his displeasure. Then the Australian government decided it was a good idea to start towing asylum seeker boats back to Indonesia - they claimed the policy was to "turn the boats back" - turns out they've been actually towing them and going straight into Indonesian waters with our war boats. Stupid, stupid. Plus they "accidentally" did this 5 times.

And only two days ago some Aussie girl was just released early after having been locked away in an Indonesian prison for 10 years. This will have raised the Indonesians ire too. This will just give them another excuse.

In 2 hours there will be another spluttering prime minister on the TV trying to put this fire out claiming that it's nothing new, "all's fair in love and war" etc etc, but it really depends on how the Indonesians react - if the headline is "Aussie's listening to ALL our phone calls, 1.8 million keys stolen, collaborating with the US", the people will react and protest, the government will look weak in front of their people, and they will have to react.

I think there's going to be a bit of a storm about this one.

Re:In other words - they were doing their job

[Sun]

I think you are thinking about the wrong question. The question is not whether the publication is going to cause trouble. Of course it is. The question is whether it is legitimate for the spying to have taken place in the first place.

If it is, then Snowden releasing this information is betrayal, and the shit storm that will (likely) happen now is just one good reason to keep this a secret.

My point was that countries are forming spy organizations. I know very few people who claim those organizations are completely unnecessary. And yet, assuming you don't live in a country with clear enemies (which, living in Israel, I actually do), you have to wonder, who are those organizations spying on? If it's not okay to spy on your own citizens (and it's not), and not okay to spy on your close allies (which it's probably not), and not okay to spy on other countries (which, implied by this piece of news, is also not), then who's left?

Shachar

Re:In other words - they were doing their job

[TubeSteak]

The Snowden leaks started out with things the public actually needed to know. The NSA spying on Americans is a gross overstep of the organization's charter. Spying on friendly nation's leaders is an embarrassment. This, however, seems to me like them doing their job.

Here's the actual article being quoted from
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/16/us/eavesdropping-ensnared-american-law-firm.html

What's interesting is that the center piece of this /. summary was a throwaway paragraph at the end of a long article.
It added nothing at all to the story.

It's curious how The Guardian and Glenn Greenwald aren't writing the stories that people complain about as disclosing too much.
Instead it's the NY Times and Laura Poitras, Snowden's other confidant.

It seems like there are different agendas at play here and the NY Times is willing to disclose sources and methods where others are not.

Re:In other words - they were doing their job

[Sabriel]

You've missed the point. Pull your focus back from the NSA. Snowden isn't just whistleblowing on them, he's whistleblowing on the rot, and the rot extends to the entire Federal Government and it's fellow international governments, including mine.

I don't have a problem with intelligence agencies spying. That's what they're for. What I _do_ have a problem with is _governments_ pretending that their intelligence agencies never spy on anyone except evil villains, when that's quite frankly ludicrous.

The difference, if you think about it, is rather profound. Think about where this kind of "oh we'd never spy on our allies (except when we do)" bullshit leads - a lack of proper checks and balances, a lack of oversight in favour of rubberstamping, etc.

Re:In other words - they were doing their job

[Savage-Rabbit]

Seriously. These are spy organizations. And here they are - spying. On foreign countries, no less. What were they thinking?

The Snowden leaks started out with things the public actually needed to know. The NSA spying on Americans is a gross overstep of the organization's charter. Spying on friendly nation's leaders is an embarrassment. This, however, seems to me like them doing their job.

At first, I thought that labeling Snowden as a spy was an overreaction. The US government trying to silence a whistle blower. However, were I a juror in a trial in which he released just this document, I'd convict.

Anyone who disagrees is kindly requested to answer two simple questions:
1. What should the NSA do?
2. Assuming this is not this, how can a country maintain military intelligence without doing this?

Shachar

There is the subtle way to do things and then there is the really clumsy and idiotic way to do them. I mean I can see how it is legitimate for the USA and Australia to spy on Indonesia with a bit more intensity than their close allies. However, is it really worth it to take the spying to a level that the target nation might construe as bordering on an act of war? What if the shit hits the fan in the region and a formerly cooperative Indonesia is so pissed off over this that they have moved into the Chinese camp? Would this spying still be worth it? Is it worth while to tap the telephones of the leaders of your closest allies (an operation that the NSA it self has admitted resulting in pretty much ZERO usable intelligence?) and risk spoiling a set of relationship that has been of vital strategic and economic importance to the USA since the end of WWII? Is the role of the NSA really to wreck every diplomatic relationship the USA has? How paranoid is the US leadership? Why isn't it enough for them to keep spying on their closest allies sufficient for the US leadership to have a good idea of what their closest allies are doing? Why must US intelligence operations be at a level that seems aimed at knowing what kind of underwear every single citizen of these nations is wearing down to the size, brand and color? *** WARNING: sarcasm ahead *** I think the USA can rest assured that none of its NATO allies is planning a sneak nuclear attack on the USA and we aren't secretly funding Al Quaeda either and if the US leadership needs to tap the telephones of Angela Merkel and François Hollande to discover that, then the US leadership need psychological help.

I am not a US citizen, I am however a citizen of a NATO allied nation and I value our strategic and economic relationship with the USA and from my point of view Snowden's revelations about the near Orwellian level of US spying on it's closest allies is a positive thing. This is especially true if Snowden's revelations result in the EU internet infrastructure being restructured so as to minimize the amount of traffic that goes through locations where the USA can intercept it because it may help to prevent the relationship between us Europeans and the USA from deteriorating even further despite the best efforts of the US security services to sabotage it with their excessive paranoia.

Re:In other words - they were doing their job

[c0lo]

2. Assuming this is not this, how can a country maintain military intelligence without doing this?

Shachar

Oh, yes. That's un-possible. Poor US Army, what it could do if missing the critical information about the Indonesian trade of shrimp and cloves cigarettes?

The law firm was advising Indonesia in relation to trade disputes with the US over the export of shrimp and clove cigarettes. In the latter case the World Trade Organization ruled the United States had violated international trade laws.

According to the classified document, Australian intelligence agents covertly monitored talks between Indonesian officials and the law firm, and offered to share the information obtained with America’s National Security Agency (NSA).

Foreign Minister Natalegawa admitted on Monday that he was perplexed by the claims, the latest in a string of damming revelations about the extent of Australia’s espionage activities in the region.

"I find that a bit mind-boggling and a bit difficult how I can connect or reconcile discussion about shrimps and how it impacts on Australia’s security,” Natalegawa told reporters at a joint press conference with US Secretary of State John Kerry, who is on a two-day visit to Jakarta.

Re:Everyone does it

[Nutria]

You're right: it doesn't count.

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[Anonymous Coward]

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Re:Everyone does it

[davester666]

1. It's not masturbating. They are back-dooring EVERYBODY.
2. Obviously, they can only look you in the eye if there is a mirror present.