N. Korea Could Face Prosecution For 'Crimes Against Humanity'

An anonymous reader writes with this news from The Telegraph: "North Korea's leader, Kim Jong-un, has been warned that he could face prosecution for crimes against humanity after a United Nations inquiry accused him of some of the worst human rights abuses since the Second World War. In some of the harshest criticism ever unleashed by the international community against the Pyongyang regime, a UN panel branded it 'a shock to the conscience of humanity.' Michael Kirby, a retired Australian judge who has spent nearly a year taking testimony from victims of the regime, said much of it reminded him of atrocities perpetrated by Nazi Germany and Pol Pot's Cambodia. Yesterday his team published a 374-page report detailing allegations of murder, torture, rape, abductions, enslavement, and starvation, describing North Korea as a dictatorship 'that does not have any parallel in the contemporary world.' In a bid to put pressure on Kim Jong-un, 31, Mr Kirby has taken the unusual step of writing to the North Korean leader to warn him that both he and hundreds of his henchmen could one day face prosecution." More at the BBC, including a cache of the report.

Comments

They're finally going to do something.

[Anonymous Coward]

Issue a sternly worded warning.

That'll teach him.

Re:They're finally going to do something.

[master_kaos]

Exactly, what exactly are they going to do? Shake their first harder? Wave their finger in shame longer? I know Dennis Rodman could go down again and sort everything out!

Re:They're finally going to do something.

[MightyMartian]

I'm sure the thoughts going through the regime's heads is "You and what army."

So long as China sees fit to shield North Korea, there's precious little to be done, and even if China walked away, this nightmarish regime has at least some nuclear capacity, enough to turn good portions of the peninsula into Armageddon. I'm afraid there is no practical or safe way for external force to be applied, and one only hopes that eventually, somehow, those who live within this hell on Earth find a way to depose the Kims and their underlings.

Re:They're finally going to do something.

[bhcompy]

Well, that's the thing. Kim killed the family member that had the tightest ties with China, so the only reason this letter got out is probably because China said they would go along with it

Re:They're finally going to do something.

[NEDHead]

I think ALL CAPS is in order

Re:They're finally going to do something.

[Tailhook]

There is history here. History teaches us that scrutiny and criticism from other nations does, in fact, make an important difference.

Many Soviet dissidents survived because killing them would have made maintaining the fig leaf of Soviet respectability impossible for the western Left. The Soviets did not wish to be a pariah state; they had to tolerate a degree of dissent and eventually this allowed satellite nations like Poland to develop a genuine resistance.

N. Korea appears to be directly immune to this sort of pressure, but China isn't. N. Korea needs a cadre of internationally recognized dissidents to destabilize the regime and the only thing that might allow them to survive is international pressure. Could a dissident survive in N. Korea in the near future? Not likely. But international pressure could permit a high profile N. Korean dissident to survive in China and create problems for the Chinese.

You have to start somewhere. The rest of the planet has be copping out on N. Korea since the 50's. Couldn't hurt to change that. Their farcical nuclear capability not withstanding.

Re:They're finally going to do something.

[Anonymous Coward]

North Korea politics in a nutshell:

The North Koreans brutally maintain their control and constantly threaten massive destruction, test nuclear weapons and fire missiles over Tokyo. They then allow themselves to be "convinced" to back down for food and funds to maintain their grip.

China finds this useful. They support him because the US and the West are constantly at odds with him (technically never signed a Peace treaty after the armistice). They keep him along and it keeps the West distracted, and gives them a cheap bargaining chip to "bring them back from the brink" in exchange for concessions in other parts of Asia.

The US finds them annoying. In general we don't like dictatorships and tyrants and in particular are morally opposed to human rights abuses. However, toppling the regime through force has serious implications. Despite being relatively weak, they are heavily armed with fanatical soldiers with around 1 million troops. While their nukes are essentially a joke, their artillery they have constantly aimed at Seoul is not. The damage they would inflict if backed into a corner on the peninsula would have repercussions throughout the entire Pacific economy. In addition, assuming they are toppled, what then? Who takes over? Does Seoul? How does a dynamic, robust, educated, high standard of living economy of 50 million people somehow take over and integrate 24 million uneducated dirt poor people who have been living under a tyrants thumb for so many years? It would take decades to integrate the two, and meanwhile South Korea, the source of around 51% of the world's new shipbuilding and around 1/3 of the world's steel production, would struggle with global ramifications. The cost and difficulty is very high for war.

North Korea knows this. They constantly bring themselves right up to the line of not being worth it to eliminate, and everyone else gives them concessions to back down from their most recent round of "crazy". It's an odd game they play, but it's worked for them for 30+ years and no one has found a cost effective alternative.

Re:They're finally going to do something.

[Khashishi]

The thing about dictatorships is that it really should only take one bomb to finish the job.

Bombing the countrymen really is a bigger crime against humanity.

Re:They're finally going to do something.

[MightyMartian]

Managing to nuke Seoul would be a catastrophe; huge loss of life, regional and indeed even global economic impact would be huge, and something tells me if the NK regime was actually collapsing, they would have no qualms about doing as much damage as they could to South Korea. The risks as far as regional stability are concerned are probably the chief reasons that China still backs them and even the US does its part by facilitating food shipments when the almost perpetual famines reach crisis level.

There are no easy answers to North Korea. Regime collapse is in many ways more frightening than keeping it going. I really don't see an end in sight. The Kims have done something rather rare on the face of it; a multigenerational monarchical dictatorship; with a sort of absolutism that even the absolute monarchs of Europe could not have imagined. There seemed to be some during the transition between Kim Jong Il and Kim Jong Un, and indeed by the looks of it many high ranking North Koreans thought so as well as they sought to increase business ties with China, but Kim Jong Il chose his heir well and the third Kim is as ruthless as his father or grandfather and has tamed the NK military machine to his will. I'd say any new hope of change is decades off now.

I don't understand....

[Premo_Maggot]

We know this has been going on.....why is the UN bothering now and what could they possibly do that they're not doing now?

Why now?

[Terminaldogma]

These atrocities have been known for a long time, and there are already several good books on the subject (which hopefully some Slashdotters with more time can link). What I don't understand is why this report came out know? Is there some political timing involved in it coming out now as opposed to a decade ago?

Re:Why now?

[green1]

Actually the UN is very definitely favourable towards the US, the US has veto power, you hardly give that to someone you aren't favourable towards. The problem with the UN is that they are favourable towards TOO MANY people and gave out veto power to several countries who never agree. This ensures that the UN can never actually accomplish anything because they must get all veto powered countries to agree (something that simply doesn't happen)

For the UN to be effective they have to stop the idea of ANY country having veto power, it just means that those countries are immune to the UN rules.

Re:Why now?

[evilviper]

France had atomic bombs before China. If not for domestic problems after WWI, France could have been the first nuclear power. That's where Marie Currie and other researchers came from, after all.

"The French military is currently thought to retain a weapons stockpile of around 300 operational nuclear warheads, making it the third-largest in the world."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Depends on China

[sjbe]

North Korea's leader, Kim Jong-un, has been warned that he could face prosecution for crimes against humanity after a United Nations inquiry accused him of some of the worst human rights abuses since the Second World War.

Not as long as China protects him he won't. For various reasons I don't entirely understand China has elected to keep this family in power. (I know they want a buffer from South Korea but there has to be more to it than that) They don't even seem concerned about North Korea possessing nuclear weapons.

If China decides to withdraw support, the North Korean regime will be gone pretty quick most likely. Until then, nothing will happen unless a war starts between North and South Korea.

Re:Depends on China

[Opportunist]

Aren't they still at war?

Re:Depends on China

[sjbe]

Aren't they still at war?

Technically yes. The Korean war theoretically never actually ended. There was an armistice but never any permanent peace agreement. $Diety knows what they think they still have to fight about...

Re:Depends on China

[j-turkey]

You nailed it, DPRK is very much dependent on China for support. I don't fully understand why China wants to keep DPRK in power either, but I can shed a bit of light on the issue. You mentioned China's desire for a buffer between their borders and a westernized and America-friendly South Korea, this is a major issue. Another huge issue is that if the North Korean regime fails, China will have millions of refugees crossing its eastern border into areas that are already less stable than they would like. These areas have not developed at a rate consistent with the larger Chinese cities, and millions of Korean refugees would be a huge burden on those areas, threatening the regional stability - which is a hot-button issue for China.

I can't say that any country is immune from supporting regimes where atrocities exist when it supports their interests...but it doesn't stop me from being frustrated with China for supporting a failed regime like DPRK.

Re:Irrelavant and inept.

[C0R1D4N]

I propose a Grand Army of the UN. Worked well for the Old Republic.

Re:And how will they bring him to justice?

[Opportunist]

Hey! We're talking about reducing the torture there!

Re:They're atheists...

[QilessQi]

You can be an atheist and still behave morally, ethically, and decently towards other human beings.

Likewise, you can believe in a god (or gods) and still be a murderous psychopath. Heck, as long as you fervently believe those gods are on your side, you can pretty much do anything you like... including interpreting scripture to suit your own purposes.

   

Re:And how will they bring him to justice?

[mrvan]

Even ignoring the problem of getting him from power, ICC has no jurisdiction as Korea isn't a signatory and the UN security council is needed either to refer the case to the ICC or to create an ad hoc tribunal. Even if China might as some point decide to stop propping up its neighbour, it is not very likely that they will allow them to be tried in court.

Re:And how will they bring him to justice?

[gnalre]

Send a fleet of C-130 Hercules filled with lawyers and drop them on Pyongyang at 10000 ft.

If that doesn't work send another fleet and drop more lawyers, but this time give them parachutes

Re:first

[MightyMartian]

As much as we can criticize many regimes for their ill conduct, I have a hard time imagining that what the Saudis or Israelis do is anything close to the North Korean regime's abuses.

Re:They're atheists...

[ideonexus]

North Koeans are required to worship their leaders as gods. There is nothing Atheistic about that.

Re:first

[CohibaVancouver]

So you are poorly informed AND you have a weak imagination.

Hey Anonymous Coward, pull your head out of the sand.

Can Saudis leave their country?
Are Saudis starving to death?
Are mothers of Saudi newborn Saudi babies forced to drown them?
Is crystal meth the only medicine available to a sick Saudi?

Is Saudi Arabia a paradise? No damn way - But to suggest Saudi Arabia is as bad as North Korea is an INSULT to your fellow humans in North Korea, including children for christ's sake, who are suffering and dying.

Re:first

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

You are the recipient of other people's "information".

Saudi's CANNOT leave. Unless they are of a certain class, and have been specifically cleared by the secret police.
Saudi's are starving to death in the NW Shiite region
Rural Saudi girls are killed on birth, as liabilities to their poor families
Meth? You are crazy. But yes. Qat is the only medicine for millions.

Re:China's Non-Interventionst Foreign Policy

[sjbe]

Rather, it is China's view that it is no one's business outside the DPRK how the DPRK conducts it's affairs.

Baloney. If that were the case then China wouldn't be subsidizing the regime. China thinks it is China's business what the DPRK does.

China never wants to be involved in other countries' problems nor do they seek to impose their will on other countries - you don't see China out trying to spread their own unique brand of communist/capitalism elsewhere do you?

They most certainly do get themselves involved in other countries problems. Ask Tibet. Need more examples? Look at what China is doing in Africa. They are investing hugely there and they certainly are pushing their own interests. China is contesting with Japan over various islands (over oil mostly), they continue to insist that Taiwan is their property, they are increasingly becoming a force in east asian geo-politics, they are growing their military rapidly, etc. Claims that China doesn't exert power in other parts of the world is complete nonsense and demonstrably so.

It is hard for people in the West to believe this because in the West foreign policy is essentially *ALL ABOUT* spreading your influence and trying to spread democracy. China has no interest in any of this.

Bullshit China doesn't have any interest. China is NO different than any other large nation state. They definitely see themselves as a player on the world stage and they are behaving like a country with global interests. To simply keep their economic engine humming they HAVE to be involved in other parts of the world whether they want to or not.

Re:first

[MightyMartian]

Many countries have departure restrictions. Not defending it, but that's hardly unique to the Saudis. India has lots of people living at or below the poverty, as well as the killing of baby girls.

No matter how you cut it, North Korea puts almost every other regime in recent memory to shame. That's not to say that there are lots of other states with appalling human rights records, but there's appalling and then there's nightmares.

Re:Henchmen

[dontbemad]

regime
riZHm
noun
1. a government, esp. an authoritarian one

The emphasis is on the authoritarian part. Granted, one could argue that many "governments" we support are actually regimes in disguise...

Re:first

[roca]

Note, if the NK regime was demonstrably reasonable --- let's say, anywhere between China's government and South Korea's --- it would make a lot of sense to drawn down the US presence. So there is no impasse here.