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BREIN Gives Up on Dutch Pirate Bay Blockade

The anti-piracy organization BREIN managed to force major Dutch ISPs to block the Pirate Bay two years ago. XS4all and Ziggo mounted an appeal, and two weeks ago the courts ruled in favor of Ziggo and XS4all with BREIN vowing to appeal. Now it looks like they might have given up on the appeal: BREIN agreed to let the 2nd largest ISP, UPC, lift their blockade of the Pirate Bay pending a possible appeal to the Supreme Court. From the article: "Starting today subscribers of the second largest ISP in the Netherlands will be able to freely access The Pirate Bay once again. According to UPC, anti-piracy group BREIN agreed to a lifting of the ban pending the outcome of a possible appeal in a case against two other Dutch Internet providers. ... In a surprise announcement today, this situation changed. UPC Netherlands, the second largest ISP in the country, said it has decided to lift the Pirate Bay blockade. This is a significant move since the court has yet to decide on the appeal in UPC’s case, a decision which isn’t expected before April this year."

30 of 47 comments (clear)

  1. Forgone conclusion? by tomkost · · Score: 5, Informative

    Regardless of the court rulings, ISP blocking was bound to fail. Too many other p2p sites exist or are created and mirrors pop up all the time. ISP blocking is essentially IP whack-a-mole. To many people this result was a foregone conclusion.

    1. Re:Forgone conclusion? by gnick · · Score: 2

      Just pay someone to manually thoroughly check every IP every day for possible offending content. You could even automate it so that you only have to manually check pages that have changed since the day before. That won't stop it, but it's somewhere to start.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    2. Re:Forgone conclusion? by Dan667 · · Score: 1

      that won't stop it either. music and movie companies changing their business model to acknowledge current technology would. People will pay a reasonable price for content make it more easy than pirating. The mpaa and riaa would rather have perceived control instead of make money like moving to a Valve Steam model.

    3. Re:Forgone conclusion? by Kjella · · Score: 2

      While it might be symbolic TPB is the mockingjay showing just how impotent the attempts at curbing piracy is. For a while they were pretty successful at taking out the big, publicly known services and while mirrors popped up it was a hit and run strategy where you hoped they wouldn't be able to drive it back down underground. Then TPB came and stayed, despite the trial and all they're in Alexa's top 100 most visited web sites and have been for many years, it's as if your moonshine had a name and brand and flyers and salesmen roaming the streets during prohibition. They couldn't win, but they could lose less humiliatingly.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:Forgone conclusion? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And with the result, being futile, I'm wondering just how much money was wasted on this venture.

      I guess a positive takeaway, other than them giving up, is that it spurred public discussion about services, filtering, blocking, and what the end purposes of the Internet are. That has to have some value.

    5. Re:Forgone conclusion? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      That's because they failed to learn the first 2 lessons about the internet:

      * "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." -- John Gilmore
      * Streisand Effect, or stated more eloquently:

        "What you resists, persists."

      which is just the spiritual version of Newton's Law:
        "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

      That's why we shouldn't we:
        "Fighting against War"

      Instead: we should be:
        "Loving for Peace".

      --
      "First" (public) Contact is coming 2024

    6. Re:Forgone conclusion? by tomkost · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The fact of the matter is people believe they are entitled to take whatever they want without having to deal with the DRM, bundling of content, and other crappy service models of GREEDY record companies who earn nearly ALL the money from the recording sales. There, I fixed that for you.

      The artists only make money from touring. Studies have shown that copying does not impact music sales. http://news.cnet.com/2100-1027...

    7. Re:Forgone conclusion? by bmo · · Score: 1

      You can try to use whatever semantics you want but in the end the result is the same. People have taken something which they do not have a right to and have not compensated the person/group who has created the work.

      You mean like the record companies do to so many artists? Except in rare cases like Nettwerk Music. For example, The Romantics never saw a penny from "What I Like About You."

      The only way the vast majority of bands make money these days is by touring. The amount of money they get from recorded music is basically confiscated by the publisher.

      When people pirate music, they're screwing the publisher, not the band.

      --
      BMO

    8. Re:Forgone conclusion? by Smauler · · Score: 1

      The fact of the matter is people believe they are entitled to take whatever they want without having to pay the artist. Period. You can try to use whatever semantics you want but in the end the result is the same. People have taken something which they do not have a right to and have not compensated the person/group who has created the work.

      The people who believe they are entitled to take what they want without having to pay the artist will _never_ pay the artist. Are you hoping to convert them?

      It's not about semantics. I listen to radio without adverts, which I do not pay for, it's paid for by the TV license. Am I pirating music?

    9. Re:Forgone conclusion? by mars-nl · · Score: 1

      Try installing iTunes on Linux.

    10. Re:Forgone conclusion? by ubrgeek · · Score: 1

      They'll find the fact that you connect to a VPN or generic HTTP proxy (over SSL) objectionable. And highly suspicious. And signs that you're most likely a terrorist.

      --
      Bark less. Wag more.
    11. Re:Forgone conclusion? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      People will pay a reasonable price for content make it more easy than pirating.

      Such as .99 cents on the Apple Store and elsewhere?

      Well, your less than 1/10th of a penny would be a damned good price, but the ninety nine cents they're charging is WAY WAY WAY too high. It wasn't that long ago that you got a 45 RPM record with a song on each side for that price, and it had manufacturing, warehousing, breakage, and distributing costs. And you have a physical object you had full ownersip of (the piece of plastic and its sleeve). Paying twice that for a fucking download that you can sample from the radio for free and legally is ripping off the stupid. No way a fair price, and only a young fool would think it's a fair price.

      And even though the price is brain-dead crazy high (a dime would be fair), the labels are raking in a lot more cash than when they were battling Napster.

      The RIAA are morons. They should have freely given away MP3s as advertising for CDs, touted CD's superior fidelity, and had "added value" in the CDs. Of course, it wouldn't have hurt to de-sign all the shitty bands that can only come up with one good song in fifteen. When you consider $20 for a CD with one good song ($20 is $15 too much, indies charge $5) and forget or don't know about history it wouldn't sound so bad. But it is.

      And per-song pricing is brain dead at any price. You have a two minute Bieber song for $.99 and Iron Butterfly's sixteen minute "In a Gadda Da Vida" or Little Feat's twenty minute "Dixie Chicken" for the same price? That's absurd.

      The fact of the matter is people believe they are entitled to take whatever they want without having to pay the artist.

      That would be the record labels, not the fans. Pirates spend more money on content than non-pirates, as all the studies have shown. Plus, as mentioned, people are paying a ridiculous $.99 per song willingly when a pirate download is as easy.

  2. Now for BREIN itself by tsa · · Score: 1

    Let's hope BREIN gives up on itself soon. The scent of corruption hangs around this organization.

    --

    -- Cheers!

    1. Re:Now for BREIN itself by FriendlyLurker · · Score: 1

      Could this news be related to the latest Snowden leak showing anyone just visiting the Pirate Bay website will have their IP address recorded in real time, and are open game for spy agencies to hack their computers... I wonder...

    2. Re:Now for BREIN itself by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1

      Really, an article from December...2011?

      Not only that, but this was actually regarding Buma/Stemra - the media had initially fingered BREIN, but later retracted that.

      Not to suggest that BREIN are saints, but at least you could attribute correct and more timely wrongdoings to them.

    3. Re:Now for BREIN itself by tsa · · Score: 1

      Drat. But that also shows that the two organizations are so alike that many people don't see a difference. They're all bad! ;)

      --

      -- Cheers!

    4. Re:Now for BREIN itself by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Fortunately they are facing other struggles in that department due to homogenization on the EU level. While each 'rights' defender/licensor for states or even substates fights for its own survival, they will eventually have to deal with the fact that for media licensing they are a pain in the ass, which is putting the EU at a great disadvantage when it comes to securing new services. E.g. Netflix's tiered roll-out is largely in part due to having to negotiate with multiple parties in each country (another part is language, of course).

      On the down side (well, for some), an EU-level organisation would also be much more difficult to deal with as a 'pirate'. While downloading of movies/music in NL is legal, the EU has judged that this should not be the case. An EU-level organisation would hasten a change in NL law; even if they don't know 'what to' (given that 3-strikes laws don't work, or at least aren't executed correctly - and correct execution will ultimately result in gross invasions of privacy). /rant :)

  3. Re:What we need is COMMUNISM by geoskd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It should be clear by now that the productive forces have outgrown the capitalist mode of production, that capitalism is now a fetter on them. But capitalism has created its own gravediggers, the modern proletariat, who whith their revolutionary ascent will clear the way for the socialist future!

    Dude, Communism had its run, it looked dynamite on paper, but here in the really real world, it failed. While I agree that Capitalism is looking to follow Comunism down the same drain, what we need is something new, not a rehash of the same tired ideas. Show me something that provides institutional protection of individuals from the indescriminate hoarding of the greedy. Show me a system that reduces a persons power and influence as their wealth increases. Show me a system that rewards creativity over greed, but still recognizes and rewards hard work. Show me something that might fit that bill, and we'll talk. Until then, what you've got is empty rhetoric and three quarters of a century of failure.

    --
    I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
  4. Confirmed! by Evtim · · Score: 1

    Just tried it - indeed no blockade [UPC customer]. Not that it was difficult to circumvent it...

    What an amazing day - first at work great results after years of struggle [you know how it is in R&D], now this. Today is a good day for democracy ;)

  5. goto xs4all by SlashDread · · Score: 1

    The story should be, UPC lifted the block -finally-.

    If you value your online rights, privacy and freedom, switch to xs4all as ISP.
    They lifted this block only hours after the appeal verdict came in weeks ago, and did not wait to see if BREIN would appeal their appeal for weeks like UPC.

    Not that UPC is bad perse, but they do not have the hacker DNA xs4all has.

    (yes yes my /. uid is low, and so is my xs4all account.)

  6. In other news: $227M/y in piracy site ad revenue by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1

    http://torrentfreak.com/torren...

    Of course, that's just more evidence that if only the industry made their material legally accessible in unrestricted forms (and save themselves some money by leaving subtitling to the masses, not bothering with behind-the-scenes and extras that aren't exactly the target of 'pirates', etc.), they could have had this revenue instead.

    *flips coin on whether or not such a legal offering would end up costing more on lost sales and licensing from those who choose the legal path for legal path sake now, which would have to be substituted by ad revenue then*

  7. Alternatives to copyright by amaurea · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As an author one has two interests: That one's works should be widely enjoyed (i.e. the wish to leave a mark on the world, and be popular), and the wish to earn money. In the current system the latter is solved via copyright: Each author has a monopoly on distributing his works for a (very, very long) time, letting him sell copies of his work with little worry of competition. This mechanism works, but it is not optimal because it conflicts with the other goal of authors, which is that one's works should be widely enjoyed. Under copyright, income depends on strict control of copying, and unauthorized copying potentially represents lost sales. The author therefore finds himself trying to stop others from spreading his work, and to limit those who enjoy it to those who bought a copy. His first and second goals are working against each other.

    In a perfect system, authors would not have such a conflict of interest with themselves. Several alternatives to copyright exist which solve this problem, but introduce others.

    1. Upfront payment (Kickstarter): The author asks for the full payment for his work before he performs it, rather than extracting it gradually over years afterwards. This could be organized in the same manner as the highly successfull Kickstarter: They author creates a Kickstarter page detailing his plan for, say, a new book, with some information about what it would be about, and states a price he wants for writing it (say 50,000€), possibly with some stretch goals (bonus chapter after 100,000€, for example). Potential readers then choose how much money they want to commit. Once enough money to reach the author's price has been reached, he gets the money, and starts working. If too much time passes (time-limit is commonly 90 days with Kickstarter) without the goal being reached, then the potential readers get their money back, and the author must try some other approach.

    The advantage of this approach is that since the author has already been paid before he does the work, he does not need to control copying: copies are free, and can be shared freely. The more copies are shared, and the more people who enjoy his work, the easier it will be for him to gather money for his work.

    The disadvantage of this system is that it will be hard for unknown authors to find people willing to fund them. Probably, their first book would need to be written for free in order to get enough interested readers for this approach to work. On the other hand, in practice, authors already write their first book for free under the current system (they need something to show the editor in order to be funded), so this is not a serious disadvantage.

    Projects of more than $1,000,000 are regularly funded through Kickstarter, and more than 50,000 projects have been funded during the 4 years since its founding. So a Kickstarter-inspired model of up-front payment really looks like it could work.

    2. Usage-based payment: In stead of the author selling copies, the state could measure how much his works are used and compensate him accordingly. That would solve his conflict of interest with himself - now it would be in his economic interest to see people share his work with each other. Something similar to this has been in use for some artists in Norway since 1886, though in a much less expansive fashion. An advantage of this approach is that it allows one to make the economic reward non-proportional to the popularity. For example, one could reduce the money per fan per work for the most popular works in order to encourage diversity and avoid super-star effects where a few authors become billionaires while others get nothing (like the current system). A disadvantage of this is that it would require a significant bureaucracy, and there could be difficulties in getting unbiased measurements of popularity of individual works.

    3. Donation-based payment: Fans of works could voluntarily donate money to authors. This would make the author's income grow as the number of fans grow, and it would be in authors

    1. Re:Alternatives to copyright by amaurea · · Score: 1

      That is pretty much the same as a similar system in Norway, that I mentioned under point 2 in my original post. The current system is not usage-based, though, but I think that a system of the scope necessary to replace copyright would need some sort of objective metric for determining who gets this salary (and how much they get). Usage was the simplest and most persuasive one I could think of.

    2. Re:Alternatives to copyright by jez9999 · · Score: 2

      How about 4. Copyright that lasts 10 years before becoming public domain, and not an eternity?

    3. Re:Alternatives to copyright by amaurea · · Score: 1

      Sure, that would be a great improvement compared to the current system. But I didn't list is because it isn't an alternative to copyright, just a better version of copyright. How did you choose 10 years by the way? That seems like a really long period to me. I book you read when you're 10 will still not be public domain by the time you start working. It only seems short in comparison to the ridiculously long copyright we have now.

      I think that if one chooses to go with copyright (but as I argue in my original post, I think copyright has problems that can't be fixed by tweaking the duration), one should try to scientifically determine the optimal duration - not just pull a number out of the air.

    4. Re:Alternatives to copyright by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      Well how do you determine the optimal duration though? You'd have to have some way of measuring a work's value to society, which seems pretty much impossible.

      I just went with a simplified version of what seems to be the Pirate Party's platform, which I agree with - 5 years by default, with an optional 5 year extension (I'd make them pay a not insignificant sum for it so you didn't just get all lawyers doing it automatically).

    5. Re:Alternatives to copyright by amaurea · · Score: 1

      While I agree that determining the optimal duration of copyright is a difficult problem, much like other similar questions in socity, I think you give up too quickly here. One way of approaching this problem is to see what effect previous extensions of copyright has had on the rate of production of new works. Since copyright duration has been changed several times, one has in effect been performing copyright experiments. These could also be performed in the other direction, to see which effect shorter copyright would have. But in order to reach a steady state situation, each experiment would have to last for a rather long time, making this approach very time-consuming.

      Another approach is to attempt to model what makes people produce new creative works, and how beneficial each work is. This requires a lot of work too (probably lots of interviews and comparisons of productivity and usage in different fields with different levels copyright enforcement). But with a good enough model one can then make predictions for how productivity and benefit from works will change when copyright duration is changed.

      Some work has been done in this direction, such as this article. That article skips the important empirical checks though, and so the assumptions going into the model are not verified, and most of them would lead one to overestimate the optimal duration. For example, the article assumes that 1. Works are only produced for monetary gain. 2. It is only possible to earn money from a work while it is copyrighted. 3. A smaller public domain due to too long copyright does not make it more difficult to produce new works. 4. Enforcing copyright has zero cost. Despite these unrealistic assumptions, the paper finds an optimal duration of 12 years. It seems very likely that more realistic assumptions would lead to a shorter optimal duration than that (in fact, it would not surprise me if the optimum is 0 years, i.e. that copyright does more harm than good).

  8. Re:What we need is COMMUNISM by Kjella · · Score: 1

    Waaaaaaaay off-topic but social democracy through single payer market economy seems to be working out fairly well. Back when I was a kid, government employees built the roads, emptied the trash, drove the public transport and so on. Today very much of it is replaced by private companies submitting tenders to provide public services, which the government pays for through our tax money. It creates the same incentive as in the private sector to deliver higher quality at lower cost, while enabling us to provide socially beneficial services taking into account external costs such as pollution, crime and danger to public health.

    Besides, capitalism has hardly failed, the 1%ers are running off with more money than ever but the global population-weighted Gini index suggests that with India and China gaining on us the overall wealth distribution of the world is actually evening out somewhat. It helps that they're 2.5 billion while the 1%ers are just 70 million, overall they have far more impact on the curve than the billionaires on the top. The number of people living in extreme poverty has also declined, in short for a failing system it looks to be in awfully good health.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  9. Re:What we need is COMMUNISM by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 1

    Communism never failed because it was never implemented anywhere. The
    fact that you think it was discredits you, which may not have been what you
    had in mind.

  10. Re:What we need is COMMUNISM by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 1

    Capialism has never failed because it was never implemented anywhere.

    You're taking state-sponsored corporatism (subsidies for banks and major corporation,
    i.o.w. socialism for the wealthy and coporations, though not for you) for Capitalism.

    It kinda discredits your judgement, which maybe is not what you had in mind.