Two Ubuntu Phones Coming In 2014, Aiming For Top 50 iOS/Android Apps

Third-rate devices by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 05:41 · Score: -1

for a third-class OS
This garbage hardware will not do much to help Ubuntu's image

Re:Third-rate devices by BlueKitties · 2014-02-19 05:47 · Score: 1

My first Android device was a G1. Honestly, it was junk. The iPhone of the day blew it out of the water. It served as a showcase in the broader market for what Android could do, and helped Google gather real world usage data. This is arguably a "public beta" of sorts, from a development perspective.

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"Sorrow is better than laughter, for by sadness of face the heart is made glad." [Ecclesiastes 7:3]
Re:Third-rate devices by AmiMoJo · 2014-02-19 05:51 · Score: 1, Insightful

I'm curious which apps they mean. Okay, Angry Birds and Facebook, but the most popular apps are things like Google Maps and Now/Siri. It's all very well to have an alternative open OS but I doubt many people care what the underlying system is, they just want their proprietary apps on a reasonable phone.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Third-rate devices by vux984 · 2014-02-19 06:17 · Score: 1

Really? I know a LOT of iphone users and most of them only pull up Siri when they want to make fun of the answers.
I've only met one person who actually tries to seriously use siri.
Re:Third-rate devices by dreamchaser · 2014-02-19 06:27 · Score: 2

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. I know a lot of people who use Siri to set alarms, make appointments on their calendar, and search for things such as nearby restaurants.
Re:Third-rate devices by kanweg · 2014-02-19 07:04 · Score: 1

In the beginning, it was mostly wrong at understanding me, but these days it is remarkably correct. Very useful feature for creating reminders on the go (or at night, in bed. No need to find writing material/leave bed).
Bert
Re:Third-rate devices by CastrTroy · 2014-02-19 07:23 · Score: 3, Informative

Getting the apps running on Ubuntu is going to require that the app developers see value in releasing for the platform. It's already hard enough getting developers to make apps for Windows phone. Will Ubuntu with it's even smaller market share be able to convince app developers that it is worth their time to port the apps to Ubuntu?

--

Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Re:Third-rate devices by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 07:36 · Score: -1, Troll

Ubuntu's "image"? Nigga please.
Ubuntu is "Linux for Niggers" It's default theme is brown. Jungle music plays on start-up. "Ubuntu" MEANS "can you help a brother out?" It was developed because Linux was too difficult for the average nigger, so they dumbed it down so that even THEY could use it.
An image issue? lol
Re:Third-rate devices by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 09:01 · Score: 0

Son, there are exactly 2 things worth doing in bed.
If you think either one of them requires creating memoranda for yourself, you're doing it wrong.

so do not want by callmetheraven · 2014-02-19 05:42 · Score: 4, Funny

Mark Shuttleworth notes "The mobile industry has long been looking for a viable alternative to those that reign today.

This explains the vast numbers trashing their iOs and Android devices and switching over to Windows 8 phones. Good thing we'll have another trusted team like Canonical added to the equation. /sarc

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You can have my SIG when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

Re:so do not want by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 05:55 · Score: -1

Speak for yourself, my friend. I've always had an interest in gnu linux phones and devices.. I settle for an iphone and own a crappy android tablet. because my nokia n900 gets crushed by all the javascript threads for dynamic content on modern webpages.
I've never been particularly in ubuntu's camp, but this news makes me pretty happy. I will probably buy one. If I can do half the things I could with my N900, I might buy two.
captcha: tartly
Re:so do not want by LordLimecat · 2014-02-19 05:58 · Score: 1

Theres already a linux phone on the market. Its open source, and there are several projects based on said source.
But reinventing the wheel is something that Canonical is particularly good at, so I guess we'll see.
Re:so do not want by lagomorpha2 · 2014-02-19 06:05 · Score: 4, Funny

Mark Shuttleworth notes "The mobile industry has long been looking for a viable alternative to those that reign today.
This explains the vast numbers trashing their iOs and Android devices and switching over to Windows 8 phones. Good thing we'll have another trusted team like Canonical added to the equation. /sarc
He said a "viable" alternative.
Re:so do not want by Grishnakh · 2014-02-19 06:11 · Score: 1

Windows Phone is not a viable alternative, it's a complete joke (esp. when you consider MS's history as far as software quality, UI design, etc.).
I don't know if Canonical's offering will be any good or not, but just because consumers are wisely avoiding Windows Phone doesn't mean that iOS and Android are really all that great, it just means Windows Phone sucks so bad that no one wants it more than the other two.
I'm not impressed with Canonical's Unity UI, however the UI you want on a phone is totally different than what works well on a desktop or laptop PC, so I'd be willing to check out their phone offering, but I am skeptical.
Re:so do not want by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 06:13 · Score: 1

Is this the phone that shall not be named? The only phones i know of are jolla and mozilla os.
Wait, you meant openmoko? I like what they're trying to accomplish, but ...pass.
Re:so do not want by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 06:57 · Score: 0

Mark was not talking about users. Mark was talking about the phone industry.
Re:so do not want by Mashdar · 2014-02-19 07:09 · Score: 1

Can't wait for MintPhone, though.
Re:so do not want by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 07:34 · Score: 0

Not even Windows Phone can be as bad as Kit Kat.
Re:so do not want by Minwee · 2014-02-19 08:22 · Score: 2

Is this the phone that shall not be named? The only phones i know of are jolla and mozilla os.
Wait, you meant openmoko? I like what they're trying to accomplish, but ...pass.
You're right. There isn't a Linux based phone with any kind of install base whatsoever.
*cough cough*
Re:so do not want by ShieldW0lf · 2014-02-19 09:32 · Score: 1

Mark was not talking about users. Mark was talking about the phone industry.
I hate to waste the mod points I used, but...
It's not about partnering with carriers, FFS. It's about partnering with people who want to build handsets and sell them. In the "Hey, our guys down in engineering tried this and it didn't work" sense of the word partner. Of course they're going to think about the people who are going to use the phones. Who would build a phone if they didn't think they could get anyone to use it?

--
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
Re:so do not want by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 09:42 · Score: 0

Speak for yourself, my friend.
No i think he is speaking for the wider community.

I've always had an interest in gnu linux phones and devices..
And that is why this wont catch on, if you thought the Kin was a market failure you cant imagine the sort of a failure a device that appeals to those that want a GNU/Linux phone will be.

I settle for an iphone and own a crappy android tablet.
Why dont you just get a decent Android phone? Sure there isn't much GNU in it but is that really a necessity for you?

If I can do half the things I could with my N900, I might buy two.
Like what? What is there (that isn't simply a hardware limitation) that you can do on the N900 that you cannot do on a decent rooted Android phone?
Re:so do not want by exomondo · 2014-02-19 09:58 · Score: 1

Windows Phone is not a viable alternative, it's a complete joke
I didn't find anything objectively wrong with it. I've tried it and quite liked it but at the time (WP7) it lacked a few features I needed but performance was excellent, with Android it was flexible but the performance was awful - though I've seen this has improved in the last 2 years or so - and ultimately I settled on iOS as it had the features and performance while being limited in terms of hardware choice. I found all 3 platforms are very good so I can't understand how supposedly objective people can have such strong opinions for/against any of them outside of some ideological opinion or specific personal needs without actually basing it on factual details.
Re:so do not want by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 12:35 · Score: 0

This guy got -1'd? Why? He (or she? Nah, probably not) is on topic, isn't insulting anybody, and doesn't seem to be trolling. Moderation is not supposed to be used as an "I do not agree with you because I am a raving fanboy" sledgehammer against anything you disagree with, guys. I guess most of the slashdotters that were worth a fuck already left for soylentnews, technocrat, or usenet. Usually that sort of asshole moderating gets fixed by the end of the day.
On the topic itself: I have a rubbish android phone and a decent (but aging) android tablet, and I'm frequently frustrated by the "It's Linux...almost" nature of its sandboxing designs and restricted access to the innards of the system. You can argue that rooting gives you these things, but it shouldn't be necessary to fight for control of your own hardware.
Devices like this phone at least give us some hope that there will still be choices on the market for people that want power user features in the future, instead of everyone being forced to fight to use your devices freely, like we're stuck with right now.
Re:so do not want by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 13:31 · Score: 0

Baaaah Baaaaaaaah Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah ba
Re:so do not want by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-20 03:58 · Score: 0

Right or wrong, if you're not part of an established camp, you will be downmodded.
I think at some point, some engadget and gizmodo users decided to act "cooler than thou" and mention slashdot, which resulted in some of their users coming here. Slashdot is now full of ____ vs. ____ flamewars. Microsoft vs Linux, iOS vs. Android. As such, these people can't parse an Android vs. Linux topic.
Re:so do not want by LordLimecat · 2014-02-20 07:23 · Score: 1

Android is open source. Its also linux.
Hint: That link isnt a press release, its the source code.

"tired app icon grid" by the+computer+guy+nex · 2014-02-19 05:45 · Score: 1

Tired to whom? It is simple and intuitive. The OS should connect you with your apps quickly and easily, not distract from your task. Does anyone really want a Windows start menu on mobile?

Re:"tired app icon grid" by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 05:55 · Score: 0

Does anyone really want a Windows start menu on mobile?
Worked nicely on an old Windows Mobile 6.1 phone I had. The main screen was about being, strangely, a phone, and there was a customizable icon-grid page for your favorite applications as well as the menu for everything else.
I still prefer the fully customizable mainscreen of my current phone, but I do miss having the option to actually kill a process that I am done with. I know the background state is supposed to be just as good, but I've had a few days where my battery drained quickly and the only culprit I can come up with was a program that stayed more active than I wanted. After a hard reset, the energy consumption was back to normal.
Re:"tired app icon grid" by Grishnakh · 2014-02-19 06:12 · Score: 1

Android (despite its many flaws) has a task manager that's easy to get to from the app menu, which can easily be used to kill wayward processes. This isn't normally needed because they go into the background, and after a certain time (less than an hour I'm sure, probably 10 minutes or less but I'm not sure exactly) are shut down automatically.
Re:"tired app icon grid" by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 06:40 · Score: 0

Common users typically have never heard of the task manager Worse, sometimes it doesn't work because the permissions that the app asked for upon installation require it to always be running. My (jellybean) android tablet dies if I load certain apps and switch to something else without actually going into task manager and killing them.
This situation has improved since Donut or Eclair, but to have it be in its current state at this point is just pathetic.
Re:"tired app icon grid" by farble1670 · 2014-02-19 08:11 · Score: 1

This isn't normally needed because they go into the background, and after a certain time (less than an hour I'm sure, probably 10 minutes or less but I'm not sure exactly) are shut down automatically.
they are only shutdown for resource management resources. if your system isn't low of resources, they'll run forever. there are also developer provisions to keep them running (think of a media player).
Re:"tired app icon grid" by mattack2 · 2014-02-19 08:30 · Score: 1

Why is it time based rather than resource based?
Re:"tired app icon grid" by GTRacer · 2014-02-19 08:57 · Score: 2

Samsung GS4 user here, still running JellyBean 4.2. Heard about AppOps (system-level permission manager) that Google decided to pull over how it affected apps' ability to access permissions if the user wanted to deny specific ones (like Location, SD card, shell).

Enter XPosed framework + XPrivacy. 10 minutes with XPrivacy's access logs showed several apps constantly pinging certain permissions including some I'd decided to deny. As in, almost none of my apps gets Location except those that directly need it.

However, finding a way to actually stop these apps cycling on and off in the background proved a challenge until I found Llama + the TaskKill plugin for Tasker is very good at killing (force-closing) apps. I have about 20 events defined to cover the most obnoxious apps. I can use the apps like normal, but once I switch to something else and the marked app is in the background for a specified interval (I use 5 minues for most) it executes a force kill. You may be saying this is overkill, but for me it was the ONLY way I could stop Facebook Messenger from firing up even if I didn't use it. My wife does from time to time, so I keep it around. But as long as Facebook is running (fore or background) Messenger will be restarted, My solution was to kill both after a 5 minute delay.

I also wound up using ES Task Manager to deny startup privs to a bunch of things, so my boot time is really short. With Llama on duty to kill apps after normal use, I find a lot less in the XPrivacy logs and I'm not as concerned about battery life and performace.

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Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
Re:"tired app icon grid" by AvitarX · 2014-02-19 10:14 · Score: 1

I would assume it's because of battery life, if it is indeed time based, but another post says it is resource.

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Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by mrchaotica · 2014-02-19 05:48 · Score: 5, Insightful

"Ubuntu puts the control back into the hands of our partners"

That, right there, makes everything about these new smartphones, and Ubuntu in general, entirely worthless. The entire point of all this is to put control in the hands of the USERS, not "partners!"

--

"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by thevirtualcat · 2014-02-19 05:53 · Score: 2, Funny

Yeah, really.
I mean, I know it's not US carriers yet. But when (if) it is, he's essentially just saying "Ubuntu puts the control back into the hands of Verizon Wireless, at&t, T-Mobile and Sprint."
Sounds like a platform I totally want to sign up for.
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 06:01 · Score: 0

Yeah, really.
I mean, I know it's not US carriers yet. But when (if) it is, he's essentially just saying "Ubuntu puts the control back into the hands of Verizon Wireless, at&t, T-Mobile and Sprint."
Sounds like a platform I totally want to sign up for.
AHH YES. Excactly what we wanted. The telcos back in charge of every experience of the phone. Does anyone remember how terrible it was back then? Because I sure do. Apple and Yes even google have saved us from that insanity.
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 06:02 · Score: 0

Indeed. I believe my wife's Galaxy S3 has never received an upgrade thanks to T-Mobile.
Meanwhile my Nexus gets updated about the same time as I see news about the new version.
I am still tempted to go Cyanogenmod though as I'd like a little bit more control (e.g. I am annoyed that I can't remove some Google apps...)
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 06:05 · Score: 0

He's essentially just saying that because if he says "yeah, it's linux. don't like it? here's root." then the device will never be seen in a cell phone store and only be owned by geeks. Well, non technical ubuntu fan geeks...but geeks! If carriers think it's safe then you never know...your cousin, your grandma, your obnoxious coworker might end up with a linux phone because some sales rep decided to push it.
There's a possibility that this could be the foot in the door to get GNU linux on more devices. Which is the freedom you're looking for.
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by Kjella · 2014-02-19 06:18 · Score: 1

That, right there, makes everything about these new smartphones, and Ubuntu in general, entirely worthless. The entire point of all this is to put control in the hands of the USERS, not "partners!"
"Users" were never going to get around to writing the software nor get a hardware producer to ship these phones, for example their little fundraiser failed with less than half the stated goal and even that was only good for one small run of vanity phones. To get the kind of funding he'd need he had to make a pitch to his partners, and I bet it went something like "Remember when Apple and Google wasn't running the show? Well, partner with us and you'll relive the glory days of old." If you want control then find a rootable Android phone and root it, that's as close as you're going to get.

--
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 06:22 · Score: 1

root, motherfucker.
DO YOU SPEAK IT?
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 06:27 · Score: 1

This!
Please, please do not put control in the hands of the carriers. I have Sprint now and they effed up every single thing they modified. I just don't care about their "push service" (whatever it does) and absolutely resent being forced to have a stupid Nascar app on my phone.
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by thevirtualcat · 2014-02-19 06:40 · Score: 1

Not that I would call Apple and Google *good* stewards of their mobile ecosystems, but they've done a lot better job of it than the carriers ever did.
"We'll let you do whatever you want, so long as you let us watch and sell the resulting data to advertisers."
"We'll let you do a small amount of things that we'll charge you a premium for every time you use it. And also, we'll lock out phone features like GPS from third party apps (what few there are) so there's no competition." (VZNavigator?)
Neither are great choices, but I know which I'd choose.
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by slackware+3.6 · 2014-02-19 06:43 · Score: 1

Cyanogen does not ship with Goggle apps for licensing reasons. You have to download Gapps as a separate zip and install, all the Google apps are included. You may be able to delete them after? But if you want one Google app you must install them all. And face it Android sucks without the play store.
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by thevirtualcat · 2014-02-19 06:46 · Score: 1

Do it. The S3 is well supported, if you're willing to put in the initial legwork. Other than a random bit of bluetooth flakiness (which seems to be mostly resolved with 10.2,) I've had no problems with it.
If you're brave enough to try the CM11 milestone releases (I am not,) make sure you have a sufficiently new radio and recovery flash.
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by LordLimecat · 2014-02-19 06:52 · Score: 1

At least he's realistic about what it takes to bring these to market.
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by thevirtualcat · 2014-02-19 06:53 · Score: 1

Maybe, but considering that Google pulled the exact same trick, I think they're probably wise it.
Maybe the carriers think they can strong-arm Canonical into doing their bidding a bit more than they can Apple or Google, but I doubt that will be a selling point in the long run.
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by thevirtualcat · 2014-02-19 07:02 · Score: 1

Correct. You flash the gapps and some of them are installed as system applications. However, since CyanogenMod has root and busybox built in, it's fairly trivial to remove unwanted system apps.
Terminal Emulator
$ su
# cd /system/app
# rm [app you want to remove].apk
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by Mashdar · 2014-02-19 07:10 · Score: 1

Maybe he's just going through a bit of a western phase. Pard'ner.
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 07:22 · Score: 0

And face it Android sucks without the play store.
I guess I don't know what I'm missing. I don't even have a Gmail account, so I can't use Google Play.
But I have scads of apps, anyway--all of them FLOSS, and a lot less advertising/spying crap going on on my phone.
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by AvitarX · 2014-02-19 08:31 · Score: 1

You don't need a gmail account to use play store, you need a google account, which can be linked to a different email address (at least it used to be possible).

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Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 08:56 · Score: 0

Not possible anymore.
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by exomondo · 2014-02-19 10:39 · Score: 1

I mean, I know it's not US carriers yet. But when (if) it is, he's essentially just saying "Ubuntu puts the control back into the hands of Verizon Wireless, at&t, T-Mobile and Sprint."
How exactly are you inferring that? He isn't saying that at all, it clearly says: Canonical has partnered with BQ in Europe and Meizu in China and neither of these partners is a carrier, they are device manufacturers.
Re:Fuck you, Shuttleworth! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-20 10:01 · Score: 0

Not that I would call Apple and Google *good* stewards of their mobile ecosystems, but they've done a lot better job of it than the carriers ever did.
"We'll let you do whatever you want, so long as you let us watch and sell the resulting data to advertisers."
Apple does not do this. It's a company which, for the most part, makes its money off hardware sales. Google is the one which is built on advertising revenue.

Freedom in the OS.. but what about the apps? by Blaskowicz · 2014-02-19 05:58 · Score: 5, Insightful

I bet most of the popular apps are front-ends to private services like f...book, google, pictures sharing services, $streaming_service etc. which invariably collect your data and try to lock you in. I question the value of a Free and Open Source OS, and of the front-end apps themselves even if they're Free and Open Source, when all the "cloudy" back-end is where the interesting stuff happens and it is locked, out of control and may be working against your interests.

Even as a desktop linux user I'm suffering from this already, what with all the tracking when browsing the web.
If we want Freedom on the mobile OS we're going to need Free back-ends to go with it (i.e. if you store private data on the web/internet, you should have the option of doing it on your own server, like installing the back-end software easily on a small VM that you pay a couple dollars per month for).
We need more chat apps, sharing apps etc. using open and universal protocols (like e-mail, IRC, XMPP) rather than made solely to be one customer of a single one company.

Re:Freedom in the OS.. but what about the apps? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 06:52 · Score: 1

If we want Freedom on the mobile OS we're going to need Free back-ends to go with it (i.e. if you store private data on the web/internet, you should have the option of doing it on your own server, like installing the back-end software easily on a small VM that you pay a couple dollars per month for).
A server not under your control and you'd have no idea if it were accessed by a third party? I'm not sure how this would be better than having it stored in "cloudy" back-ends as you put. Not that it'd be any worse either.
Re:Freedom in the OS.. but what about the apps? by exomondo · 2014-02-19 11:04 · Score: 1

If we want Freedom on the mobile OS we're going to need Free back-ends to go with it (i.e. if you store private data on the web/internet, you should have the option of doing it on your own server, like installing the back-end software easily on a small VM that you pay a couple dollars per month for).
You can already do that on existing platforms, in fact depending on what you are doing you could build and host a web app that connects to your VM and then you can be platform-agnostic.

We need more chat apps, sharing apps etc. using open and universal protocols (like e-mail, IRC, XMPP) rather than made solely to be one customer of a single one company.
Why do we need more of them? There are already open source mail apps like K9 Mail and plenty of open and closed source IRC clients, what's wrong with these?
Re:Freedom in the OS.. but what about the apps? by Blaskowicz · 2014-02-20 08:58 · Score: 1

I wanted to mean protocols like e-mail etc. are protocols, not e-mail etc. per se.
From the Whatsapp story I've learnt about this as an example :
https://core.telegram.org/api
https://core.telegram.org/mtpr...
Maybe it's not really "universal" in the meaning that everyone and his dog will use it, maybe if you clone it all you're creating an "island" that doesn't interoperate directly with the original app and its users (I don't know). But it's the kind of stuff I wish for. Similarly there could be open API or protocol for a sharing pictures/sending pictures kind of app that is not e-mail or MMS and that doesn't rely on using f...book/whatsapp/google/whatever, or for some kind of app I'm not thinking of.
I agree about setting up your own web hosting for your phone apps, e.g. you could have a notes taking app that saves data on your own server. I'm waiting for Firefox OS hardware, which I might get to do that kind of stuff. Heard that you can set up your own "Firefox Sync" server too.

Battery life? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 06:00 · Score: 0

It won't have better power management (battery life) than iphone and if it doesn't have better battery life than android - I don't care.

Missing letter: k by wagr · 2014-02-19 06:03 · Score: 2

Aiming for top 50k apps. Anything less than supporting all the apps I use simply diminishes the value. I don't need to switch to a less valuable device.
The type of people who value less closed systems are also those, as a group, with a wide range of needs. If I value my privacy and am willing to use less popular devices, why would I then be willing to use the most popular apps?

What I believe the ecosystem needs more than another device are apps that provide features available in the popular ones, but with the least possible amount of information gathering or sharing.

Re:Missing letter: k by sirlark · 2014-02-19 07:03 · Score: 2

Yes, the people interested in a less open system have a wide range of needs, but simply having access to a GNU userspace will take care of a LOT of the utilities... No need for firewall apps, calender apps, reminder apps as long ubuntu OS exposes a decent UI to all those things. You won't need a million different file manager apps, or text editor apps???? What fucking OS doesn't come with a basic text editor, even on a phone? Games and front ends to proprietary cloud services are going to the major things that need porting. There'd be a better office suite than anything available on a phone if libre office got ported. GNU/Linux/Ubuntu comes with a heell of a lot for free (as in beer, as in effort and as in speech). Throw in a hardware slide out keyboard and you might a real spritual successor to the n900.
Re:Missing letter: k by CastrTroy · 2014-02-19 07:45 · Score: 1

Sounds a lot like my my experience on my Surface 2 with Windows RT. There's fewer apps then what are available for Android tablets, but I can still do everything I want because it has so much stuff built into it. The browser is very capable so you don't end up needing apps that just duplicate stuff you'd find on a website. Comes with a calculator, file manager, office suite, text editor, and a lot of other things right out of the box. Microsoft has even gone out of their way to make a bunch of really good games for it as well.

--

Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Re:Missing letter: k by exomondo · 2014-02-19 11:14 · Score: 1

Can't you get most of that with a debian chroot on Android? And you've kind of hit the nail on the head with the N900 comparison, while that is great for geeks to have a GNU userspace and a terminal and re-compiling desktop apps for the phone to use with a slide-out keyboard that sort of thing isn't at all appealing to the broader user base, just to a geek niche.
VNC to your desktop running LibreOffice from an Android phone with a bluetooth keyboard (or even debian chroot with LibreOffice) to see how crappy an experience a port of LibreOffice to Android would really be.
Re:Missing letter: k by serviscope_minor · 2014-02-19 11:50 · Score: 1

Anything less than supporting all the apps I use simply diminishes the value.
No. Have you even used a stok android phone? Even better one without the google stuff?
It somes with nothing.
Need flashlight? App.
File manager? App.
Decent browser? App.
Everything needs a sodding app.
You don't need nearly so many if your phone is a proper computer out of the box.

--
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Re: Missing letter: k by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 14:56 · Score: 0

No. No it isn't.
And of course not everyone wants an n900 clone. Grandma, your cousin, your coworker will never use that command line app so it's a bit of a straw man to bring it up. I actually met n900 users that were like that. It's just a device after all, you don't need to sudo apt get dial mom or anything.
What we are looking for is a phone that gives control back to users. If i can't root it then there's probably something someone doesn't want me to be able to get rid of.
Re: Missing letter: k by exomondo · 2014-02-19 15:19 · Score: 1

No. No it isn't.
What isn't what? That doesn't really make sense as a reply to anything in that post.

And of course not everyone wants an n900 clone. Grandma, your cousin, your coworker will never use that command line app so it's a bit of a straw man to bring it up.
How exactly is that a strawman? I'm saying the reason we don't have a successor to the N900 is that it isn't commercially viable for 2 reasons, one is because the market is niche and the other is because the things that this successor would have are already available in Android.

What we are looking for is a phone that gives control back to users. If i can't root it then there's probably something someone doesn't want me to be able to get rid of.
In that case the obvious answer is one of the many phones that you can root that have been available for years.
Re:Missing letter: k by sirlark · 2014-02-19 18:45 · Score: 1

My point is that the geek niche won't need 50K apps ported. The GP claims nothing less than the full app suite would be of sufficient value, but past the top 50 (maybe 100) most apps are either games or utilities. My point is that the utilities are already there on a GNU system.
Regarding the debian chroot. Yes it gives you most of what you want, but it screws with your warranty and STILL there's stuff I'd like to be able to do that I cant. One example is to have every phone incoming or outgoing automatically recorded, and I get the option to permanently save afterwords. Mainly for dealing with calls from companies. Debian chroot doesn't give me enough access to the kernel to do that, at least I can't figure it out. Or making my tablet make a phone call, despite the fact the phone app is banned from use on the tablet. All I want i to top up my mobile data which for some unknown reason can't be done via SMS in this country (South Africa). My hope is that a genuinely open phone would allow these sorts of things to be developed.
Re:Missing letter: k by exomondo · 2014-02-20 10:14 · Score: 1

Regarding the debian chroot. Yes it gives you most of what you want, but it screws with your warranty and STILL there's stuff I'd like to be able to do that I cant. One example is to have every phone incoming or outgoing automatically recorded, and I get the option to permanently save afterwords. Mainly for dealing with calls from companies. Debian chroot doesn't give me enough access to the kernel to do that, at least I can't figure it out.
There are many call recording apps on Android as it is, but what exactly is it in the kernel that you can't get access to with a debian chroot that would somehow become accessible if you had a GNU userspace?

Or making my tablet make a phone call, despite the fact the phone app is banned from use on the tablet.
Banned by who? Could you just use a 3rd party app store?

here we go by watcher-rv4 · 2014-02-19 06:06 · Score: 0

More frankensteins in the market.

Control by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 06:29 · Score: 0

" Ubuntu puts the control back into the hands of our partners"

WRONG.

If it's not putting control back into the hands of ME, then I don't want it.

CM without GAPPS is perfect.

How? by Lumpy · 2014-02-19 06:30 · Score: 1

Ubuntu for phones is currently un-useable right now even on decent hardware like the Nexus 4, or are the manufacturers being given something that works and that is actually being withheld from the public and developers?

If they are withholding the working OS from us developers, there will be hell to pay.

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.

Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 06:48 · Score: -1

lumpy: Reply here with your registered acct http://games.slashdot.org/comm... or even I know apk caught ya red handed doing the minus moderating of his posts all over slashdot like a coward would. You called him a weakling in computing but it appears he's done things you can't in computers http://slashdot.org/comments.p... .
Re:How? by slackware+3.6 · 2014-02-19 06:50 · Score: 1

Tried it on a Nexus 7 the interface was nice to look at but it was way to unstable to use. I doubt Canonical is focusing on google's hardware when they could push their own hardware.
Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 06:57 · Score: 1

It's not the hardware, plus how are developers supposed to test when they can not even get "official" hardware?
Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 07:35 · Score: 0

You're being made a fool of here http://slashdot.org/comments.p... Face that challenge there at least to post where you're asked to there to see if your downmods go away from posts before it to try save some face at this point on your end Lumpy http://games.slashdot.org/comm...
Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 08:47 · Score: 0

Would work for me if it had a mail, a xmpp app and apn configuration.
Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-20 06:27 · Score: 0

APK is a no talent script kiddie hacker wannabe. He cant even make a speak and spell work.
Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-22 23:55 · Score: 0

He has more than Lumpy can show in this alone http://start64.com/index.php?o...

Lumpy's busy "eating his words" by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 06:50 · Score: -1

From where he libeled me before this post http://yro.slashdot.org/commen... and I made him "eat his words" there in the post parent to mine in that reply using verifiable facts with people in the security community!

Lumpy ran like the weasel he is after that. Figures. He talks big on many things but when push comes to shove? You see Lumpy do a "Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" like he is now avoiding this test of mine to see if he has been downmodding my posts for years here as I suspect.

He hasn't (& I suspect he WON'T reply using his registered user account LUMPY on slashdot here -> http://games.slashdot.org/comm...

(Since I am nearly sure he has been doing what he did there to me, for years directed my way - downmoderating my posts "hit & RUN" (Forrest, RUN, lol) style - yet NEVER disproving my points validly (odd that, eh? NOT...)

APK

P.S.=> We'll see IF he does (he could have done those downmods using sockpuppets too possibly, but I don't think he's that smart in this case) - if he doesn't? He only proves me right, as usual...

... apk

Windows Phone is viable by art123 · 2014-02-19 06:51 · Score: 3, Interesting

Windows Phone sold over 20% of what Apple iPhone sold in Q3 of 2013. I think that is very viable.

Re:Windows Phone is viable by east+coast · 2014-02-19 08:22 · Score: 1

Care to cite?

--
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Re:Windows Phone is viable by art123 · 2014-02-19 09:21 · Score: 2

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobiles/news/windows-phone-grows-104-percent-year-over-year-in-q4-2013-abi-research-478672
Re:Windows Phone is viable by art123 · 2014-02-19 09:27 · Score: 1

Your links shows Q3 2013 iOS sales of 33.8 million versus Windows Phone 9.5, so WP was 28% of iOS (which may or may not include iPads [not clear from the data]);

Lumpy how'd "eating your words" taste? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 06:51 · Score: -1

ROTFLMAO @ "Chumpy" -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

(You sure "talk a good game" -> http://games.slashdot.org/comm... but you can't even produce a MERE SCRIPT!, windbag...)

You aren't even on the level of a "script kiddie", & full of HOT AIR!

You certainly won't reply there in that 2nd link I posted either, as that would remove your downmods to my posts like this one you can't validly disprove or justify your downmod on -> http://games.slashdot.org/comm...

Oh, I suspect that IS the case here (simply logging out of a registered account & trolling by ac is a common troll trick around here OR using alternate registered 'luser' accounts sockpuppets to do the job will also, & Lumpy is LOADED with those & trolling - which doesn't matter: He PROVES he's all talk, no action (or skills, OR brains, lol))

(You're all TALK, & NO action "CHUMPY!)

* :)

(You know it, I know it, & so does anyone reading AND laughing their asses off @ you now... lol!)

APK

P.S.=> Answer the question in the subject-line Lumpy - since you had to "eat your words" in the 1st link above flavored with your FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH + the "bitter taste of SELF-defeat", lol...

... apk

Re:Lumpy how'd "eating your words" taste? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 23:26 · Score: 0

You are a fucking idiot. Lumpy OWNS YOU as it is obvious you keep popping up as he prods you. You are such a puppet.
Re:Lumpy how'd "eating your words" taste? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-22 23:53 · Score: 0

Lumpy keeps running away. Who pwned who? You've got it in reverse.

Two wrongs don't make a right... by njnnja · 2014-02-19 07:04 · Score: 2

If I can do half the things I could with my N900, I might buy two.

Is that so you can do 100% of the things that you want to do?
/ducks

Hopes? by cant_get_a_good_nick · 2014-02-19 07:06 · Score: 2

Mark hopes to see the "top 50" apps from the Android and iOS stores available for Ubuntu on mobile.

Hopes?

Hmm, RIM/Blackberry tried to throw money at this, didn't work. Magic wishes and dreams will not cause a company to spend money for a developer to work on a new style platform with unknown revenue chances.

Can someone explain to me the difference by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 07:21 · Score: 0

Can someone explain to me the difference between Tizen an this ubuntu phone OS? What about Tizen is insufficient?

Re:Can someone explain to me the difference by ChunderDownunder · 2014-02-19 12:07 · Score: 1

Well it's Ubuntu. Meaning despite the bad karma Canonical have attained on here, it's basically debian under the covers.
If lifetime upgrades are a simple 'apt-get dist-upgrade' away, that would attract a legion of fans fed up with rom-flashing.
Whether Canonical are capable, with Mer and Unity, of producing a user interface that doesn't suck is another story.
Re:Can someone explain to me the difference by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 13:45 · Score: 0

it all depends how locked down it is, and that depends on if we get drivers, and i don't think shuttleworth has the balls to get them to us (because some manufacturer will till him to piss off, and lets be honest who would use ubuntu unless they were forced).
Re:Can someone explain to me the difference by johnsie · 2014-02-20 05:43 · Score: 1

Ubuntu Mobile is based on Cyanogen mod. It's more Android than Debian.

Frameworks .. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 07:24 · Score: 0

Many apps are built using COTS frameworks that let you develop code once and generate builds for iOS and Android. I know atleast one does this with iOS/Andorid/BB10. Thing is, these companies are not going to support Ubuntu. Not until HTML 5 use is widespread.

That's what phones are missing! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 07:24 · Score: 0

We need a Linux Mint phone running MATE (or at least Cinnamon). Everybody will ditch their existing devices for a traditional desktop environment in a heartbeat!

Lumpy how'd "eating your words" taste? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 07:38 · Score: 0

ROTFLMAO @ "Chumpy" -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

(You sure "talk a good game" -> http://games.slashdot.org/comm... but you can't even produce a MERE SCRIPT!, windbag...)

You aren't even on the level of a "script kiddie", & full of HOT AIR!

You certainly won't reply there in that 2nd link I posted either, as that would remove your downmods to my posts like this one you can't validly disprove or justify your downmod on -> http://games.slashdot.org/comm...

Oh, I suspect that IS the case here (simply logging out of a registered account & trolling by ac is a common troll trick around here OR using alternate registered 'luser' accounts sockpuppets to do the job will also, & Lumpy is LOADED with those & trolling - which doesn't matter: He PROVES he's all talk, no action (or skills, OR brains, lol))

(You're all TALK, & NO action "CHUMPY!)

* :)

(You know it, I know it, & so does anyone reading AND laughing their asses off @ you now... lol!)

APK

P.S.=> Answer the question in the subject-line Lumpy - since you had to "eat your words" in the 1st link above flavored with your FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH + the "bitter taste of SELF-defeat", lol...

... apk

What's the deal with those queer ideas. by aix+tom · 2014-02-19 08:06 · Score: 1

If I want to run "the top 50 Android Apps" I would just get an Android phone. There is no real reason to have Ubuntu on a phone instead of Android if it's also targeted at the "Partners" and locks the end user out. I would like a Linux phone not because "it can do the same thing as Android", I would one want one if it can do MORE.

Re:What's the deal with those queer ideas. by east+coast · 2014-02-19 08:49 · Score: 1

I hate to say it and I hope no one takes it the wrong way but what you're saying has been the long standing problem with open source for open source's sake.

People generally need a reason to switch platforms. So far almost everything from open source that hasn't been on the server side has been about how the product is "just as good" as the closed source equivalent. Do the open source advocates really think I'm going to switch platforms over something that is "just as good" with no clear advantages? I think that's where a lot of resistance comes from and frankly I don't blame people who see it this way. I really can't imagine someone switching from Windows to Linux or OSX without someone to hold their hand through the process. There is a remarkable effect on the user by having someone to ask a question to. Search engines just don't cut it if you don't know what you're talking about in the first place. At least not like an experience user would.

Android had a virtue of being ready to make a go of it in a fertile emerging market. No one using a dumbphone had anything to lose by going with the Android handset. The same won't be true of Ubuntu phone. Google has done a fine job of value added services like Google Play in the same way Apple did with iCloud and iTunes Match. If MS would have had the same advantages about two years before getting back into the phone market they would have had a great marketshare now too. MS is only making real headway in (tada!) emerging markets.

I can't speak for what global market saturation really looks like but unless Shuttleworth can get his foot in the door there his phone is going to remain a niche player that likely will never see numbers better than Windows phone let alone iPhone.

--
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Re:What's the deal with those queer ideas. by exomondo · 2014-02-19 10:19 · Score: 1

People generally need a reason to switch platforms. So far almost everything from open source that hasn't been on the server side has been about how the product is "just as good" as the closed source equivalent. Do the open source advocates really think I'm going to switch platforms over something that is "just as good" with no clear advantages?
What they think is that "software freedom" is the advantage, that people should be willing to give up convenience for freedom, for example running their own "cloud" services so they do their computing on their computer rather than using somebody elses.
Many of them still don't understand one simple thing that everybody else knows - and it's pretty obvious - which is that you cannot disrupt a market with a me-too product. You need either a disruptive product to change an existing market or a new and innovative product to create a new market. The FOSS world was still fumbling in the desktop market and vendors like RIM and then Apple innovated in the smartphone market, there's no reason that innovation could not have come from the FOSS community but they are now - years later - still trying to play catch up. The same thing happened in the tablet market and I don't see it being successful because it just isn't disruptive or innovative, it's just a free copy and often it is less convenient and/or less user friendly. FOSS solutions - I'm talking user-facing, not all the brilliant backend stuff - need to innovate to get over the stigma of them just being also-ran knock-offs.

We need a Mint phone by vikingpower · 2014-02-19 09:10 · Score: 1

running Xfce. That.

--
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace

Top 50, or Most Important 50? by Foresto · 2014-02-19 09:28 · Score: 1

I don't care a lick about a facebook app and 49 games. Please sell me a compact, reasonably lightweight, open source phone with a good web browser, a good offline sat-nav app, and regular security updates.

Re:Top 50, or Most Important 50? by exomondo · 2014-02-19 10:29 · Score: 1

The problem is you a minority not worth catering for, even those few who do share your viewpoint are mostly served by a phone with CyanogenMOD anyway.
Re:Top 50, or Most Important 50? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 13:56 · Score: 0

i second that. Full blown linux with all the drivers open, throw in the obvious simple stuff like alarm clocks, thunderbird, VLC, and a file-manager, make the offline sat nav app able to search the saved offline maps, and i am set; if you put a really good camera and screen on it, i'll pay a fair bit extra.
Re:Top 50, or Most Important 50? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 15:00 · Score: 0

Full blown linux
saying that just means you a parroting your misunderstanding of what somebody else said. Android has full Linux so what is it you actually want? GNU userspace? X Server? Wayland? KDE? GNOME? Qt?

with all the drivers open
why are people so hung up on this? we have had various open drivers for all manner of hardware on desktops for a long time and what is so crucial that they have given you that you need on a mobile device?
Re:Top 50, or Most Important 50? by Foresto · 2014-02-19 16:02 · Score: 1

That's pretty much what people used to say about Mac users.
Re:Top 50, or Most Important 50? by exomondo · 2014-02-19 16:29 · Score: 1

That's pretty much what people used to say about Mac users.
Mac users were catered to by Apple who provided them with the Mac. So I'm not sure which people you think were saying that about Mac users or why Mac users would care.
Re: Top 50, or Most Important 50? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-20 03:16 · Score: 0

Imagine your Mac with only apple made programs, and maybe some adobe. That's what Mac used to be. No one cared to rewrite software for less than 10% of the computer market.
I'm guessing you're 12 years old and have no idea what he's talking about.
Re: Top 50, or Most Important 50? by exomondo · 2014-02-20 13:20 · Score: 1

Imagine your Mac with only apple made programs, and maybe some adobe. That's what Mac used to be. No one cared to rewrite software for less than 10% of the computer market.
It still is only about 10% of the market and the vendor (Apple) was there to push developers to write software for it, its not like the users just sat there saying "sell me some software". Software companies did write software for less than 10% of the market.
So Mac users had Apple pushing the software vendors on behalf of the Mac users, who is doing something meaningful to push this device with compact, reasonably lightweight, open source phone with a good web browser, a good offline sat-nav app, and regular security updates on behalf of those people just sitting around wishing for it? Nobody.
Re: Top 50, or Most Important 50? by Foresto · 2014-02-21 06:50 · Score: 1

Thankfully, not everyone in the world is as eager as you to accept the status quo and discourage progress.
Re: Top 50, or Most Important 50? by exomondo · 2014-02-23 09:27 · Score: 1

Thankfully, not everyone in the world is as eager as you to accept the status quo and discourage progress.
I'm not discouraging progress at all, I'm saying that sitting around just wishing for the phone nobody else wants isn't going to get you anywhere. Unless you are actually doing something then you are just accepting the status quo too.

Firefox OS? by mx+b · 2014-02-19 09:32 · Score: 1

Is there still updates/plans for Firefox OS in the next year or two? I would definitely still love to see a Mozilla OS. They seemed pretty good at keeping their OS open and in user control (no weird technologies, etc.).

Re:Firefox OS? by ChunderDownunder · 2014-02-19 11:53 · Score: 1

ZTE and Geeksphone will be unveiling handsets at next week's MWC in Barcelona.

Partners == (Manufacturers&&USERS) != GOVE by keneng · 2014-02-19 10:21 · Score: 1

"Ubuntu puts the control back into the hands of our partners"

You can interpret what Mark Shuttleworth said as a WIN for manufacturers and telecom companies, but it doesn't necessarily make it a LOSE situation for USERS. It will be a win for the USERS if the phone itself competes with Apple hardware style, at an Apple Price point with a Linux Desktop Digital Freedom/Digital Privacy expectations.

There are differences of opinion as to what the developer tools should be for the Ubuntu Touch Phone for certain. As it stands, Ubuntu is pushing QT/QML as the hammer for every application being a nail. I'm not keen on this. The choice of toolset should be consistent with the desktop choice because that's what UBUNTU's current user/developer base are accustomed to. I have witnessed most of their tools being compiled for the Ubuntu Touch system, but they have yet to be debugged so there is hope on that front for all the desktop tools to come to Ubuntu Touch. If that happens that will be a big win for all LINUX Users from any LINUX flavor. I'm a touchy feely kind of guy however. I want to try it before I buy it. That's why I bought the Nexus 4 and have a dual-booting Android Kitkat/Ubuntu Touch phone and Android wins hand-down right now with key features. Android's coolest feature is hotspot wifi, but Currents, Firefox(Google Search), TuneIn, Youtube and Dramafever are by far my household's favourites. I can setup my phone as a wifi-hotspot for my netbook when I'm away from home while listening to a tunein stream on the phone itself. I can currently use mobile data with Android. My phone certainly doesn't replace my laptop or desktop that's certain. It's just a complementary accessory. As a last resort having my phone handy with a mini bluetooth keyboard could be ok, but not for all-day usage. Bose Mini-Link Speakers are a godsend to my ears when they are connected via bluetooth to our android phones. If these capabilities are found on the Ubuntu Touch, then it's a no-brainer decision because Android can be replaced. I hope that GNOME comes to Ubuntu Touch. I don't know about other users, but I would love to see it replace unity everywhere altogether.

Google still wins from this because AOSP reference point hardware license IMHO is still in effect. That means if you buy an Ubuntu Touch Phone, odds are it will come in a dual-boot Android/Ubuntu setup as a default. Everybody wins because everybody gets a piece of the $$$ pie and the USERS get their DIGITAL FREEDOM/DIGITAL PRIVACY.

Not even close by DarwinSurvivor · 2014-02-19 10:34 · Score: 2

Sorry, but until you *used* an n900, you simply have no idea how limited an android phone is. Full terminal by default, I can remote-X phone applications from my laptop, openvpn is 3 clicks away, I can run fucking lighttpd and torrent trackers on it (with the DEFAULT repositories). I wrote a Mandelbrot generator for a class project (in pure SDL and unix IPC). Took 5 minutes with a chroot to get that sucker compiling and running on my n900.

You could spend a week rooting, customizing and overhauling the best android phone out there and still not come close to what the n900 would do out of the box.

Re:Not even close by exomondo · 2014-02-19 12:45 · Score: 1

That's all well and good but you can do all those things on an Android phone too, your point of differentiation isn't a limitation of the platform, it is that it doesn't do that out of the box which frankly - given the things you listed - I don't think is really going to limit the appeal to many people. It's going to be geeks that want to do those things and not being in the default repositories isn't going to make it end up in the "too hard" basket.

You could spend a week rooting, customizing and overhauling the best android phone out there and still not come close to what the n900 would do out of the box.
Really? OpenVPN, terminal, chroot debian, VNC, lighttpd and torrent trackers are all available in various repositories (in fact most are in the official Google one) for Android, I'm not sure why you need so long to root it and add non-default repos.
Re:Not even close by DarwinSurvivor · 2014-02-19 20:10 · Score: 1

I've never seen anyone get anything resembling a repository working on an android device that would allow the installation of native code (read: not the java BS the "apps" have to use).
With then n900 you can run GTK, QT and (I believe) TK natively without needing to use an entire debian chroot to do it.
Re:Not even close by LordLimecat · 2014-02-20 07:24 · Score: 1

Android has a terminal, and ssh, and all of that other stuff, just not by default.
Youre arguing that its "not linux" because the defaults dont match your preferences? Good grief. Real insightful.
Re:Not even close by LordLimecat · 2014-02-20 07:26 · Score: 1

And it is your opinion that lighthttpd on an android phone constitutes a "sane default", is it?
Re:Not even close by DarwinSurvivor · 2014-02-20 08:49 · Score: 1

It's not RUNNING by default, it's in the default repositories.
Re:Not even close by DarwinSurvivor · 2014-02-20 08:51 · Score: 1

ssh + terminal does not make something a very usefull Linux device. There's also the matter of there being no X server, gnu libraries, repository (java app store doesn't count), or any simple way of adding the above.
Re:Not even close by LordLimecat · 2014-02-20 09:13 · Score: 1

That is also not a sane default. 99.9% of users have no need for it, and the point of repositories is that you can add them as needed-- kind of like you can do with android.
Re:Not even close by LordLimecat · 2014-02-20 09:17 · Score: 1

This sounds like a no true scotsman. Youre defining "open source" and "linux" based on whether it works exactly like your n900.
Android is inarguably Linux, Open Source, and supports repositories. It uses Java by default (though Im pretty sure you can add non-android packages), and theres no reason gnu utilities cannot be ported. Su was ported, busybox was ported etc etc.
Re:Not even close by exomondo · 2014-02-20 10:04 · Score: 1

I've never seen anyone get anything resembling a repository working on an android device that would allow the installation of native code (read: not the java BS the "apps" have to use).
Well even on Google Play you can get UltiServer which includes things like lighttpd and various other servers that you can run on your Android device and I don't believe they were ported to Java.

With then n900 you can run GTK, QT and (I believe) TK natively without needing to use an entire debian chroot to do it.
I that even really that necessary though? Sure I could run the GIMP on my N900 and that was a neat trick but it wasn't particularly useful, most of the existing programs don't work in that context on a phone anyway, that's why I have a phone and a laptop because it's too clunky and fiddly to use most desktop applications on the N900.
Re:Not even close by DarwinSurvivor · 2014-02-21 07:47 · Score: 1

Right, because huge photo editors are the only useful things that have ever been written in GTK or QT...
Re:Not even close by DarwinSurvivor · 2014-02-21 07:49 · Score: 1

right, ported. Just about every application needs to be ported, custmized and tweeked for hours before it will even *run* on Android. I want a phone where I can take (arguably small) applications from my desktop and just fucking run them without jumping through a week's worth of hoops to do it. There is a big difference between "possible" and "not a pain in the ass".
Re:Not even close by exomondo · 2014-02-23 09:32 · Score: 1

Right, because huge photo editors are the only useful things that have ever been written in GTK or QT...
That's just one example, there's programs like OpenShot, LibreOffice, Ardour, Blender, Handbrake, Inkscape, etc... and they are all designed for desktops and don't work on a phone. Being able to run GTK/Qt/TK applications on a phone without a chroot to leverage existing applications doesn't really provide any benefit.
Re:Not even close by DarwinSurvivor · 2014-02-23 21:16 · Score: 1

I wasn't trying to say that photo editors are the only thing that aren't worth using on a phone, but that there are still MANY, MANY desktop applications that would work very well on a phone. MPD clients, remote torrent front-ends, little utilities you've written over the years, simple GTK/QT games, etc would all be nice to play on a phone as *native* applications instead of having to play shitty JAVA recreations.
Re:Not even close by exomondo · 2014-02-24 09:45 · Score: 1

It's only the simple basic stuff that has been rebuilt as either Java or NDK applications, not sure what there is pre-existing in GTK/Qt that works great on a phone and is so much better than the Android versions.

Re:Partners == (Manufacturers&&USERS) != G by mrchaotica · 2014-02-19 10:37 · Score: 1

You can interpret what Mark Shuttleworth said as a WIN for manufacturers and telecom companies, but it doesn't necessarily make it a LOSE situation for USERS. It will be a win for the USERS if the phone itself competes with Apple hardware style, at an Apple Price point with a Linux Desktop Digital Freedom/Digital Privacy expectations.

"Linux Desktop Digital Freedom/Digital Privacy expectations" are a lose for telecoms. Users winning and telecoms winning are mutually-exclusive possibilities. Therefore, your initial assertion is wrong.

--

"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

Great... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 11:06 · Score: 0

Crap phones that don't have apps, made by companies we've never heard of. Sign me up!

Laughable Ignorance by multimediavt · 2014-02-19 11:57 · Score: 1

"tired app icon grid of Android and iOS"

Yeah, it's so tired from ButtonFly days that it stuck around. That kind of tired? Or the kind of tired something gets when it ain't broke?

Re:Laughable Ignorance by multimediavt · 2014-02-19 11:59 · Score: 1

Oh, and they want to replace it with what? something that could arguably be called much more tired, the desktop interface?

Canonical - A Failed Company? by enter+to+exit · 2014-02-19 12:36 · Score: 2

Only a year of two until Canonical shuts down then. They're not making any money, They're unlikely to make any money and generally people don't want an Ubuntu based anything.

Their server support business is lacklustre (Redhat, Novell, IBM and Oracle eat their lunch) and not enough to support a business.

It's hard to call Canonical a successful company - it's only still around because of its unique financial status.

The hardware Ubuntu phone OS needs is not low end. They might have had a chance with low-end phones, but the OS is too heavy and doesn't offer enough compelling reasons to use it. With so much abstraction, it's sure to be buggy as well.

Like Ubuntu TV, Edge, Unity and Mir this is going nowhere. Their hardware "partner" will load a few hundred phones with Ubuntu, they'll also sell Android Phones with the exact same hardware. It doesn't cost them anything, if they don't sell - the manufacturer will just reflash them.

Re:Canonical - A Failed Company? by johnsie · 2014-02-20 05:48 · Score: 1

It wont shut down because MS will continue to fund it. However, they have already driven most of the original community away by reinventing the wheel and changing what was a good, simple distro that just just worked. Pretty much anyone who queried this was banished from the main forum community or slapped on the wrists by Unity zealots. There is alot of bad blood from former Ubuntu users and also people who work with other distros that were shafted by Ubuntu.

Yes he deserves to die and i hope he burns in hell by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 13:40 · Score: 0

Exactly. If this is proper linux, does that mean i'll be able to load up kde plazma or linux mint? We will have access to the drivers? or will this basically be android with the ubuntu logo? Why arn't phone OSs as simple as they are on my puter? and why aren't enough of the so called geeks angry about it?

OP is full of shit by thatkid_2002 · 2014-02-19 17:54 · Score: 1

OP has clearly never used a Windows Phone or else it would be clear to OP that the problem with Windows Phone isn't Windows Phone. Windows Phones work great; they shit all over my Android devices in terms of user experience (except in a few niche cases).

The problem with Windows Phone is that it is a Microsoft product - and nobody wants to buy a Microsoft product.

If you want to bring up a history of bad design, bad management and general incompetence look no further than Canonical. Microsoft is bad, don't get me wrong - but Canonical haven't done *anything* right in the past 5 years, where Microsoft occasionally has some wins.

Re:OP is full of shit by Grishnakh · 2014-02-20 02:25 · Score: 1

I tried a couple of Windows Phones a while back. I wasn't too impressed, mainly because the UI is just so butt-ugly. They were pretty responsive, though; I'll give them that. But I wouldn't ever buy one because of two things: 1) it's from Microsoft, as you noted about no one wanting to buy a MS product, and after all the bad experiences I've had with their other software I have zero confidence this would be any different once I start getting to know it a lot better, and 2) I have to assume that a MS mobile device isn't going to be too different from an Apple iOS device, since they're obviously trying to ape Apple as much as possible these days, and this means that the device will be a complete PITA when you try to do something in a way different than the One True Holy Way the designers intended. I already had that experience with my wife's earlier iPod and iPhone; I couldn't do anything with those stupid devices without using their horrible iTunes software. By contrast, our Android phones are much easier to deal with, for instance when I want to copy a bunch of music files to them; all I have to do is connect a USB cable and run rsync since the SD card shows up as a regular FAT filesystem.
But about your point regarding Canonical doing nothing right for the past 5 years, can you point to any other big or well-known (on Slashdot) company that's done things right for the past 5 years? I can't think of very many. Off the top of my head, Intel and Amazon have done pretty well as far as not screwing up horribly; Intel's new CPUs are extremely power-efficient, and Amazon continues to do better in the online retail segment. Everyone else is generally screwing up left and right:
Microsoft->Windows 8 Metro, Windows RT tablet writeoff
Google->screwed up UI in Gmail, developed bad reputation for privacy, relentless pushing of Google+
Canonical->Unity, Mir, "open source Tea Party" comment
Dell->new laptop designs cheaper and uglier than before, big financial problems, 15k layoff
HP->I can't remember the last time their stuff didn't suck
Lenovo->Thinkpads getting cheaper and crappier
Re:OP is full of shit by thatkid_2002 · 2014-02-22 14:19 · Score: 1

I think your views on the phones are basically invalid. Metro is gorgeous. I don't see any way in which Microsoft is trying to be Apple, and I don't have any issues with the design (btw the OSX interface is shithouse, I think we can agree). Most Android phones these days are taking away the option to allow mounting the SD card over USB for various reasons (although, it is excellent for usability IMO) in favour of MTP - which coincidentally Windows Phone also does.
In the next update apparently Windows Phone will finally be getting some sort of fie manager. Also unlike Android, Windows Phone isn't trying to shove cloud services down your throat constantly but is flexible enough to offer great integration to a few by default and even CalDAV and CardDAV (which is a big winner for me).
About not wanting to buy a MS product - I think it is more specific than that. People don't want to buy MS pocket devices (including music players) not because of bad experiences with them but because they are simply not "cool". I say this because every idiot happily runs out and buys every new Windows release including the terrible Windows 8.
Most of those companies are irrelevant to what we are talking about. What we are talking about is operating systems and specifically Linux distributions. Fedora and Debian are examples of projects which have both for the most part been excellent maintainers and you know, actually fixing bugs and working with upstream. Often (OK, maybe not the new Fedora installer) they are innovating in very positive ways rather than constantly negative ways.

Blackphone being unveiled in 4 days by Burz · 2014-02-19 19:21 · Score: 1

http://www.droidreport.com/bla...

I think I'll throw my hat in the ring with SilentCircle instead of the company that decided privacy is passe.

Dalvik by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-19 20:04 · Score: 0

Why can't they get dalvik running and through dalvik be able to run android apps on their OS. That way people would be able to have access to the whole desktop + their old Android apps.

Guy walks into a bar... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-20 07:15 · Score: 0

...yells, "All trolls are assholes!" A big, ugly guy taps him on the shoulder and says, "Would you care to rephrase that?" "Why, are you a troll?" "No--I'm an asshole."

Set sail for fail! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-02-20 11:23 · Score: 0

Ubuntu will only ever be a niche device that a few lonely geeks want. This will never make it to mainstream.

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Two Ubuntu Phones Coming In 2014, Aiming For Top 50 iOS/Android Apps

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