Tesla Used A Third of All Electric-Car Batteries Last Year

cartechboy writes "We've heard about Tesla building this new gigafactory to produce battery packs for its electric cars. Heck, the company's current bottleneck is its ability to get battery packs for its electric cars. In fact, last year Tesla used a bit more than one-third of the auto industry's electric-car batteries, and that was with only selling 22,477 cars last year. Tesla is expanding its model lineup as quickly as possible with the introduction of the Model X crossover next year and a compact sports sedan in 2017. With the rapid expansion of its vehicle line, Tesla is going to need a crazy amount of battery packs, and quickly. Thus, the Silicon Valley upstart is building the gigafactory to engineer and produce battery packs in much larger quantities. If Tesla can remove the battery production bottle neck it's currently facing, the only question left will be market acceptance of a mainstream electric car."

Comments

When??

[Type44Q]

last year Tesla used a bit more than one-third of the auto industry's electric-car batteries, and that was with only selling 22,477 cars last year.

So this was last year? :p

Be careful

[korbulon]

At current projected usage, Tesla is threatening to use up all the supply of batteries by 2016, and then there'll be trouble. I foresee a US invasion of Fremont in the near future as mayor Gus Morrisson continues to engage in belligerent talk and saber rattling related to commercial zone redistricting and increased parking fines. Rumors still abound regarding the untimely demise of his predecessor Bob Wasserman. Was it pneumonia, or something far more sinister?

The only question left?

[Archangel Michael]

the only question left will be market acceptance of a mainstream electric car

No, I do not think that is even an unanswered question at this point. The biggest question I have is, will there be a STANDARD connector for quick charging batteries so that after driving 200 miles, can we re-charge the batteries in a few minutes no matter what brand of car we're driving?

Right now, the ONLY thing that is preventing me from getting a Tesla is that I have to travel longer than 500 miles a few times a year, and renting a car for a week, three times a year is too expensive an option.

However, I do see the possibility of all this changing how we travel. Especially if the Autonomous automobile becomes a reality. This would allow people to travel by train / airplane and "rent" a vehicle only for getting to / from transportation hubs and local travel.

Re:The only question left?

[Bing Tsher E]

In a few minutes? What energy source will you use for that? Lightening bolts?

Re:The only question left?

[fodder69]

Right now, the ONLY thing that is preventing me from getting a Tesla is that I have to travel longer than 500 miles a few times a year, and renting a car for a week, three times a year is too expensive an option.

However, I do see the possibility of all this changing how we travel. Especially if the Autonomous automobile becomes a reality. This would allow people to travel by train / airplane and "rent" a vehicle only for getting to / from transportation hubs and local travel.

That is a whole lot of stupidity in one sentence. Even disregarding the fact that you are talking about a $60k car, renting a car for a week costs, what, let's say $300 cause you want a nice car. So $900 dollars a year. How much do you spend in gas in a year?

It's a rhetorical question since your math skills are clearly not up to simple addition.

Re:The only question left?

[mythosaz]

Right now, the ONLY thing that is preventing me from getting a Tesla is that I have to travel longer than 500 miles a few times a year, and renting a car for a week, three times a year is too expensive an option

Odd.

I'm a pretty firm believer that if you're going to drive 500 miles, renting a car is almost always a better option in terms of the wear and tear on your own car. [Obviously if you're leasing and under your mileage quota, things change, etc. etc.] I suppose it breaks down to what a week is (3-5 days? 7-10 days?) and how far longer than 500 is. Car rentals for non-luxury vehicles, especially for anyone who rents regularly are easily had in the sub-$40 range. Econoboxes are cheaper, but rarely enough cheaper to justify. On a whim, with no notice or club status, It's $44 a day for me to pick up a "mid-size" or "intermediate" (Sentra, Corolla, Fusion, Malabu) right now in my town.

At $334 a week, if you're only driving 500 miles, you're probably not ahead.

But 5 days and 600 miles -- Those 37c/mile probably come out ahead nicely with actual wear and tear on your car. AAA thinks so. *shrug*

Even if it's only a small loss over driving your own car (in terms of big picture wear and tear), it might be overall worth it after switching to a Tesla.

...also, you get a Tesla :)

Re:The only question left?

[Archangel Michael]

I have a Mercury Grand Marquis that I paid 1700 for two years ago, bought tires and serpentine belt for. It has 90K miles on it now. I recently replaced the brakes myself (simple job). In total, I've spent less than $2500 for two years of driving (plus gass). Nice ride, mechanically sound engine/tranny but it does have its issues with the automatic windows. It is a very nice ride.

My last vehicle was bought brand new for about $20k, lasted 20 years before it just fell apart. I put in about $2000 on that vehicle over its life outside of oil changes/tires/batter etc.

That being said, I'll never buy a new car again, and will buy cars that are mechanically sound towards the end of their lifes. If I get two years, and sell them for any value at all, I'm way ahead of people who like new car smells and get stuck in forever paying for vehicles. In fact, I'm looking right now for my next $2-3K car. I'm patient and am willing to wait to find the "right one". :-D Yeah, I'm tight.

Re:The only question left?

[jxander]

Tesla can be charged on a standard 3-prong outlet (NEMA 5-15)

Doesn't get much more standardized than that.

Of course, charging with 110 is a slow process. A Tesla requires a bit more juice than your smartphone, but it's still an option for overnight. Especially if you're not maxing out the distance every day. The recommended 240 plug is the same thing you've probably got running to your dryer (NEMA 14-50) so still pretty standardized.

Re:The only question left?

[The FNP]

Right now, the ONLY thing that is preventing me from getting a Tesla is that I have to travel longer than 500 miles a few times a year, and renting a car for a week, three times a year is too expensive an option

OK, so the serious answer is that in a decade, when someone wants to get rid of their Tesla and get the latest model, you will look at it, and decide that since you still have to occasionally rent a car a couple times a year, that you will have to spend more than $1000 per year on it and so therefore you are not interested.

I understand wanting to save money on the car, but that still doesn't bring a $90k vehicle down into the $1k per year range. On the other hand, for the last several years, I have deducted over $10k per year in vehicle expenses, while driving vehicles that cost me less than $6k (and last for several years). My point is that the gas savings should be a much bigger piece of the pie than the measly $1k per year of a rental. When I spend way more in gas, than I do for the vehicle, anything to reduce that becomes a possibility.

Once the Teslas enter the used market, I'm going to be seriously looking at them, but by then, I'll also be VERY concerned with how much life the battery packs have left.

--The FNP

Re:The only question left?

[ericloewe]

Charging from an american husehold outlet is about the same as charging your phone with a small windmill driven by you blowing on it.

110V * 12A makes for a very pitiful 1.320W. I've seen hair dryers that sucked more power than that.

I believe they said something like 14 hours for a full charge (sure, you'd rarely need a full charge) from a 220V * 16A outlet, so you can imagine how painful the experience would be at half the voltage and a lower current.

High-power AC plugs are standardized, so that doesn't require effort beyond using existing standards.
High-power DC does need standardizing. Preferably on both sides (car and charger).

Consumer acceptance?

[BoRegardless]

Let's see about the benefits.

No cooling water
No oil
No flammable liquid fuel
No brake fluid
No grease
No "fan" belts
No noise of consequence
No engine and drive train with 2000 parts
No internal combustion engine repairs/adjustments
Very low brake pad usage (unless you are 18 years old)

Re:Consumer acceptance?

[bgarcia]

No cooling water
No brake fluid

Don't go crazy. There is still brake fluid in an electric car. And they still have radiators of various types for cooling purposes.

Re:Consumer acceptance?

[kenaaker]

When I take my Focus Electric in for scheduled maintenance, it's amusing to watch the service rep trying to find something they can actually do. So far the only items have been tire rotation and software updates.

Re:Consumer acceptance?

[Ralph Wiggam]

The mechanical brakes get less use because of regenerative breaking, but they still need fluid and pads occasionally. But besides those two things, I want to say that the only other scheduled maintenance in the first 10 years is cabin air filters- which you can easily do at home.

Re:Consumer acceptance?

[Maxwell]

I've been in (several) taxi Prius with over 400,000 km on the clock. These cars spend most of their life on battery mode so they (likely, perhaps) get as intense a battery workout as the Tesla. The average car is kept 3 years. Unless you plan to keep it ten + years, is this really a concern?

Re:Consumer acceptance?

[TomGreenhaw]

Our Tesla is almost a year old (about 12k miles) and the only things that have gone into the car is air in one tire (until they fixed it for free), electricity, and windshield washer fluid.

We did buy the maintenance plan (good for everything except tires for 8 years) and I'm sure it will need something, but so far its been basically nothing.

Re:Consumer acceptance?

[Tailhook]

No brake fluid

The Model S has electrically pumped hydraulic brakes. Regenerative brakes can't apply enough force in all cases.

No cooling water ... oil ... grease

There are other fluids as well. The sealed gear box has gear oil (both 1.0 and 1.5 versions.) The batteries, motor/PEM/inverter and cabin are all cooled/heated using antifreeze with the requisite pumps, lines and heat exchangers in three fluid loops. The AC system also has fluid to exchange heat.

Your point is valid and very appealing; electric vehicles have fewer failure modes and maintenance issues. But these are still a complex machines.

Re:Consumer acceptance?

[jklovanc]

I've been in (several) taxi Prius with over 400,000 km on the clock.

Being in a Prius make you an expert on how they work?

These cars spend most of their life on battery mode

What is this based on? The electric range of a Prius plugin is less than 23 Km. I was a taxi driver and drove upwards of 300 km/ day. Most of the electricity used during the day is from regenerative braking but there is still a lot of gasoline used.

The average car is kept 3 years by the original owner.

FTFY. After that cars go on the used market and are in service for many more years. I drive a 2002 Hyundai Elantra. Are you advocating trowing away a $100,000 car after 3 years?

Unless you plan to keep it ten + years, is this really a concern?

It may not be a concern for the original buyer but it is a major concern for the used market. In effect the car becomes worthless after about 5 years.

Re:Consumer acceptance?

[WindBourne]

Tesla absolutely has cooling fluid. In fact, it is the ONLY car maker to properly deal with the cells. And that heat is used to heat the inside of the car.
There is grease, but they are in sealed areas. IOW, they are not expected to wear out.
Brake pads are expected to be changed about every 100K miles. Not bad.

Re:Consumer acceptance?

[WindBourne]

Really? You can have somebody replace your engine at 15 years later, with a brand new engine, AND include all of your regular maintenance for less than $5000K? What car are you driving? I would have thought that it was impossible to get a brand new engine for 2000K, let alone be able to get one. And once you add in all of the BS service calls, I would expect to pay well over 7500 for maintenence, brake pads, brakes, probable transmissions, seals, new engines, etc.

Or are you just a liar?

Re:Consumer acceptance?

[WindBourne]

scarcity of materials? You are kidding. Right? Lithium is in the top 10 most abundant materials. A new lithium mine was found in Wyoming that has no less than 3/4 million tonnes of lithium. However, they believe that it is actually around 18 million tonnes. And that is just one mine in America. Many others are out there. More importantly, both japan and South Korea are working on how to get it from the ocean. And we have several companies working on seperating it from geo-thermal generators post steam.

And as to battery costs, they have been going down about 10% every couple of years. But here you go.
That leads to things like this claiming drops of 20-30% each year (pretty steep, but not as steep as what China did with solar cells) and that is just with Lithium-ion. It does not include lithium air, or even the zinc battery work, etc.

Re:Consumer acceptance?

[skids]

It has an electric motor. Those do wear out over time.

Brushless AC induction in this case. As long as they used durable chemicals in the windings and relgulate/cool it correctly, I'd expect the chassis to rust out before it needed more than a new set of bearings.

Re:Consumer acceptance?

[Firethorn]

I'd expect the chassis to rust out before it needed more than a new set of bearings.

Given that said chassis is mostly aluminum that'll be a while...

But then again, I've heard of motors made during Edison's time still being in service, and AC induction motors, properly treated, are about the longest living electric motor as well...

I wonder if we might see a return of reupholstery/interior refurbishment places - rather than replace your Tesla, swap the battery for a new one while you have it repainted, seats replaced, and dash fixed up a bit?

Gigafactory - thous. mill. times typical Detroit?

[fantomas]

Is a 'gigafactory' one that is a thousand million times bigger than a typical Detroit automobile factory? I am not quite sure I understand the term....

Whoa, that's a lot of batteries...

[MiniMike]

Tesla is going to need a crazy amount of battery packs

Lucky they don't need a gigacrazy amount of battery packs, they'd have to build a super-duper-gigafactory.

Not all Lithiums the same

[foxalopex]

It's an interesting article for perspective but somewhat inaccurate. The article fails to point out that not all Lithium batteries are the same. The Volt for example uses such a different battery chemistry that it tends not to catch on fire even when punctured. The one simulated in lab fire occurred from the battery coolant catching on fire after it had a chance to dry out. (Took about a week.) The trade off is that the Volt's battery has lower power density which means that it holds less power for a battery its size. The Tesla S uses laptop batteries which have great battery density but have the obvious trade-off of catching on fire when punctured. An Iphone uses a Lithium Polymer battery which has some of the highest energy densities of all Lithium batteries. The downside is they explode when punctured. In a small device like a phone or tablet this isn't a big deal but in a Car which this would give it some amazing range, if it crashed it would literally be a bomb on wheels.

Re:Not all Lithiums the same

[Zeromous]

>literally be a bomb on wheels

No it is neither literally, nor figuratively a bomb on wheels. It will catch fire though, with plenty of warning and safety features, if punctured. As I understand if you were in the Tesla when it caught fire in the battery packs, you probably wouldn't burn to death.

Re:Not all Lithiums the same

[WindBourne]

uh, no. LG's battery chemistry is UNKNOWN, so for you to make the wild claim that it has less prone to fires, is simply false. You have NOTHING to back that up with, since LG will not publish their chemistry and no independent group has vetted the fire issues. In fact, NHSTA says that thermal runaway CAN occur, just like Tesla's. The only deaths are in BYD's e6, which is poorly engineered and built.

Far more likely, is the fact that Tesla carries more than 4-5x more KWH what the volt does and has spread out their batteries with 7000 cells on the bottom of the car with thermal conditioning on EACH CELL.OTOH, the volt has some 288 cells in the car, and has low surface area / volume. And yes, the volt has had one fire. Tesla has had 3 fires, with nobody hurt. In fact, Tesla has more KWH on the road than does the Volt.

And considering that Li-ion batteries does NOT explode like Gas (or diesel in the right condition) just due to a crash. It takes overcharging to cause that. And Tesla handles their batteries better than any car maker out there. They are the only one that is properly conditions each cell. Yes, the volt has some thermal management on their modules, but, it is not one of the cells.

All in all, only the Model S handles things decently.

Gimme a cheap car

[future assassin]

Gimme a barebones Yaris like car, not the ugly ass 2013 Yaris for say $12-15K CDN and I'm in.

Re:Gimme a cheap car

[afidel]

I don't think that's going to happen this decade, and maybe never if there's not some fundamental discovery in battery chemistry. The Leaf has an incredibly short range and costs $29k US, even Musk is only targeting 30-40% reduction in battery (not system) costs this decade.

Re:Gimme a cheap car

[WindBourne]

First off, the Model S starts at 69K.
The Model X is the Cross over that will be out early next year (was supposed to be this summer, but....). I am guessing that it will be starting at 75K.
The Model E which is out end of 2016, will be 35K base.

Re:"Giga" factory.... where?

[LordLimecat]

Why even post something like that? Is uninformed cynicism what passes for a constructive comment these days?

The location of the gigafactory has not yet been announced, but Musk said it would include lots of solar and wind to power it, leading many analysts to assume somewhere in the southwest U.S., such as New Mexico.....

---The Motley Fool

YGTBFKM

[Overzeetop]

You've got to be fucking kidding me.

"Right now, the ONLY thing that is preventing me from getting a Tesla is that I have to travel longer than 500 miles a few times a year, and renting a car for a week, three times a year is too expensive an option."

Renting a car for $500/pop three times a year is "too expensive" for a guy who has no problem dropping $90,000 on a car? I could see that the inconvenience might be a reason, but cost? We rented a mini-van a couple times a year for our family vacations because the sedan wasn't big enough. NBD.

Re:YGTBFKM

[HornWumpus]

Then you have to drive a minivan all year. I'd rather drive a Yugo.

I'll buy one when...

[ameline]

I'll buy one when I can get a consistently reliable 500 mile range (at -20 degrees C exterior temperature, +20 interior, with headlights on too) out of it. Recharge at 40 to 60A (230V) at home is acceptable. That likely means a 200 kwh battery pack. So about 2.5x increase in energy density over what we have now. This will probably be available in the next 10 years. The advantages of electric given this sort of range will all but kill other powertrains for most cars. Those advantages will easily pay for a battery swapout every 5 years or so.

Re:"Giga" factory.... where?

[blueturffan]

Why even post something like that? Is uninformed cynicism what passes for a constructive comment these days?

The location of the gigafactory has not yet been announced, but Musk said it would include lots of solar and wind to power it, leading many analysts to assume somewhere in the southwest U.S., such as New Mexico.....

---The Motley Fool

It's completely irresponsible and foolish to speculate that the gigafactory will be built in New Mexico. The obvious location would be in Watts.

Just Like Digital Cameras 20 Years Ago

[onkelonkel]

This whole discussion on electric cars reminds me of digital cameras when they first came out. People act as if no technology ever improved over time. The first cameras were about 320 x 240 or so. Film purists were laughing. In order to get the same resolution as 35 mm film, you would need 5 MEGAPIXELS!!! which considering cameras were barely .1 Megapixels seemed purely ridiculous. No way is digital going to replace film! Of course the camera resolution doubled year after year and now digital cameras are ubiquitous and film is almost extinct.

EV batteries will get cheaper and more powerful over time. Range will go up, vehicle prices will go down. Economies of scale and technological progress will see to that. As they get cheaper and better, they will make more sense to more people. People who might not buy a $40k car with a 120 mile range may well buy a $25k car with a 200 mile range.

Re:Just Like Digital Cameras 20 Years Ago

[Teancum]

The problem is that battery technology is hardly something brand new, and there has been a nearly 50 year need (arguably perhaps even well over a century) of having reduced weight and size of batteries. Some of the very first automobiles (see the Baker Electrics vehicle as an example) were electric even before Henry Ford started to build the Tin Lizzie. If Moore's Law applies after a fashion to battery technologies, instead of the typical assumed 2-3 year doubling/halving time that you are used to with computers, instead it is more like 25-50 years for battery technology.

There have indeed been improvements with batteries with new chemistry coming up with better ways to store a charge. None the less, progress is very slow in coming and I only expect to see perhaps another double of the capacity within the rest of my lifetime. The Lithium-ion cells that used to be in laptop computers and cell phones made it possible to build something like the Tesla Roadster (and subsequently the Model S), which is why those vehicles now have much better performance envelopes than the Baker Motor vehicles I mentioned above. A century of progress does make a difference, but it is still slow in coming.

Economies of scale will also help with the production of the Tesla vehicles, but until somebody makes the leap and builds the automobiles in the first place such economies of scale simply won't happen. Starting a brand new automobile company anywhere, much less in America, is so difficult that it really should be seen as a miracle and nearly proof there is a God all by itself. The current regulatory climate in America and Europe is bad enough that it is a miracle automobile companies even exist at all. For this reason, there is a definite lack of new entrants into the market (not that some people try, but almost all fail miserably). Tesla Motors is an exception and not a typical experience of a brand new automobile manufacturing company.

Tesla = Apple

[Scot Seese]

The only question left will be mainstream acceptance??

No, the only question left will be economic. Cars costing > $ 70,000 are not for middle income families. Middle (and low) income families make up the vast majority of the U.S. population.

Tesla offers unique differentiators in their product that may or may not be superior to competitor technologies but command a premium price - not unlike many Apple products.

Loaded out Lenovo or HP laptop? low to mid $1000 range. Comparable specs on a 15" Retina MacBook Pro? Mid $2000's. Differentiators - OSX, higher resolution IPS display, gorgeous unibody aluminum construction, tighter ecosystem between computer & mobile device, unparalleled retail sales & support experience through apple stores, SSD faster than spinny hard drive, better battery life. I unashamedly own one. I occasionally ask myself why.

The $1300 Lenovo with 16gb ram, Nvidia 750 discreet video, quad core i7 cpu, and Windows 8.1 will do everything you need in a laptop and 5x more. You just aren't getting those rMBP differentiators. If they are worth an additional $1000, go for it.

A completely loaded Chevy Malibu gets you a four door sedan with turbocharged engine, full leather interior and tons of options for under $31,000. It will comfortably carry you back and forth to work for less than half the cost of the Tesla, it has more than twice the range, refilling it with energy takes five minutes, and while it is using petrochemical fuel, the Teslas - lets not kid ourselves here - are using electricity overwhelmingly generated by dirty coal fired electric plants.

No one is pretending the Lenovo Y510P laptop is a loaded rMBP, or the Chevy Malibu is the equivalent of a Tesla Model S. But the point is this - the high end Apple laptop & 27" desktop products, along with Tesla's vehicles, are - so long as they occupy their current pricing strata - going to be luxury items that a very narrow percentage of the U.S. market can afford. They will accordingly occupy a small percentage of market share.

Apple and Tesla are both destined to exist as luxury brands that will always be around, always appeal to a certain well-heeled discriminating consumer, but are fated to occupy very narrow market share. Like Rolex, Gucci, Coach hand bags, those red-soled Louboutin heels your wife / girlfriend / both have had their eyes on - they are priced outside the realm of sanity for all but enthusiasts, the foolhardy, or the very well heeled.

If Elon can scale manufacturing to produce a vehicle similar to the Nissan Leaf, improve range to 200+ miles between charges, ++ plus the quality and options a little, and get the price down into the $25-35k range while still making an acceptable profit, Tesla might have something to talk about. Until such time, Teslas sales are going to exist in a range that to companies like Ford, GM, and whatever Chrysler/Fiat is calling themselves this week - is a rounding error on just one of their models' annual sales.

Tesla sold 20some thousands Model S sedans last year? Ford sold, on average, over 50,000 F-150 pickups PER MONTH in 2013. ONE manufacturer. ONE MODEL.

I love Tesla, I admire Elon, but the numbers are just wrong for most of America.

Re:Tesla = Apple

[Scot Seese]

No.. No, WindBourne I think you're confused. Here - let me clarify:

GM & Chrysler have fully repaid their TARP "bailout" money.
http://spellchek.wordpress.com...
Ford never took TARP money - they did line of credit prior to TARP's existence.

I also think you are confused about the point I was making with the Ford F-150 pickup truck. Let me make it clearer for you:
I am not comparing the F150 to the Model S, or any other Tesla vehicle. What I was doing was demonstrating that Tesla is, and shall remain a small "boutique" automaker. Even if Tesla sells the 350,000 cars you claim they hope to in 2017, that number still come remotely close to the nearly 600,000 Ford F150 pickups that sold in 2013. That is just one vehicle, for one automaker. That does not include all the other cars & trucks Ford manufactures, nor does it include General Motors, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Range Rover, or others.

Tesla does not exist in a vacuum. Their only growth opportunity is to erode market share amongst wealthy buyers who were already in the market for a $70,000 + luxury vehicle, and would not have considered a cheaper car by a domestic, Japanese or Korean automaker. The problem is that there is a very small number of those buyers with six figure incomes to purchase them.

The average household income in the United States in 2013 was $51,017 with over 15% of Americans - 46.5 million people - living in poverty.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/09/1...

I assure you the 90+ percent of American earning those salaries are not lining up to buy $70,000 ++ Tesla electric cars. They ARE however gobbling up Honda Civics by the metric fuckton.

I hope this made my point clearer.

Re:No radiator in a Leaf

[willy_me]

I have a Leaf, there is no radiator of any kind. Heat comes from resistance (pre 2013) or heat pump (2013 and beyond).

Heat pumps still require radiators. They are much simpler and less maintenance then a typical automotive radiator - but they are still there. Just look at the back / bottom of your refrigerator for an example.

Teslas come with several plugs including SAE J1772

[SuperBanana]

. The biggest question I have is, will there be a STANDARD connector for quick charging batteries so that after driving 200 miles, can we re-charge the batteries in a few minutes no matter what brand of car we're driving?

Why do people keep harping on this? This was the top rated comment last time a Tesla was mentions as well. Is it really that hard to go to Tesla's website and click on "charging"? The Tesla comes with a couple of standard plugs, including the common SAE plug. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

The standard plugs it comes with include a 110/120V plug, and a plug or two for 220/240V outlets; they sell about 2-3 dozen other plugs on their website. If you're visiting a friend and they have an electric dryer plug near the garage - that's more than enough juice to top it up while you're all asleep, and since the car tracks how much energy it used charging, it's easy enough to compensate your host in some way. It's about $10, maybe $15 in electricity for a full 80kW charge, by my rough math.

So, probably the best investment a Tesla owner who visits people a lot can make...is in a 220/240V extension cable. Looks like you can get 'em on Amazon for about $2/foot; Home Depot certainly carries them as well.

Re:WHAT A LOUSY SUMMARY.

[skids]

Other cars sell in the millions in America alone, every single year.

Half that or less. The Ford F-Series was the top seller last year at ~700K units. The Ford explorer was rank 20 with less than 200K units sold. If any one of the tesla models manages to get into several hundred units sold annually, it will not just be mainstream but a top seller.

Re:severe materials shortage

[Firethorn]

You have a number of mistakes here:

the quantities required of neodymium (for the magnets in the motors), copper (for the moving coils in the motors) and lithium (for the batteries) to push around 2 tonnes of metal is basically... insane. there's not enough available on the planet. something has to give.

1. AC Induction motors like what are in the Tesla don't need rare earth magnets.
2. There's almost certainly more copper in your house than in a Tesla.
3. Besides's GrahamCox's mentioning that Lithium is actually very common, just generally widely distributed rather than concentrated(makes mining it a bit more painful).