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Why We Need To Teach Hacking In High School
An anonymous reader writes "Following one of the best descriptions ever of a hacker I've ever seen, Pete Herzog, creator of the 'security testing' (professional hacking) manual OSSTMM outlines compelling reasons why the traits of the hacker should be taught in school to make better students and better people. It starts out with 'Whatever you may have heard about hackers, the truth is they do something really, really well: discover.' and it covers open education, teaching kids to think for themselves, and promoting hacking as a tool for progress."
A good read, despite confusing hacker and hacker a bit. I remember getting to set up Debian on a scrap machine in high school, only to have county IT kill the project because of the horrible danger experimentation could have proven to the network...
Every industry wants their industry taught in high school, maybe we should teach things that are useful in general instead of SQL injection or writing Haskell.
The school admins already have a hard enough time dealing with kids destroying things, both logically and physically. Now you expect them to be on the level enough to be able to stave away actually taught hackers? How much are you willing to pay for this little experiment (both in the admins pay, and the cost of cleaning up the disasters)?
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
Kids are going to practice "hacker" methodology plenty enough. Schools should stick to teaching fundamentals that they won't bother learning on their own. Besides, they need exposure ot the disciplinarian side of programming as well. Hopefully, enough will sink in so that when they get their first jobs they'll be somewhat prepared for the shift.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Hacker = terrorist
When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
I went to a private high school. It was small and didn't have many resources. Still, I was fortunate to have a very supportive environment for my exploration and learning related to computing.
The teacher who taught programming had actually managed IT/network stuff in Micronesia, so she was not in the habit of throwing old tech out. We received a lot of donated equipment from various businesses, and she saved most of it in a storage room. When she found out how interested I was in technology, she basically gave me the run of the place - allowed me to take home equipment to play with, just hang out in there during lunch and after school, put together new machines for the lab, etc. This was where I first learned about other architectures - got my hands on an old DEC Alpha.
When she saw that I had already self-taught some programming, she allowed me to skip directly to an advanced programming course, and teach myself as an independent study.
Later, she let me set up an NT server with roving profiles and network home directories for the lab, so that students in the general office suite classes could save their work on the network, keep it backed up, and their teacher would have centralized access to it. Prior to this, they were all using floppy disks.
Without that environment I'd still have been interested and involved with tech, but it sure made it easier and more interesting, and I learned a lot. I suspect that many teachers might not have been willing to allow a student so much freedom, or that policies might have forbidden it.
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
... right? We really need to stop treating all high school students as equals because it hurts all of them.
The students that are having a hard time mastering literacy need a lot of remedial help. The ones that are doing very well need access to accelerated programs and additional subjects.
Do NOT group these kids together. You will make sure the kids that are behind learn NOTHING and the kids that are ahead will achieve less.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
A good read, despite confusing hacker and hacker a bit
I can sure see the confusion. I can't see any difference between "hacker" and "hacker" myself. What am I missing?
Schools need to put more focus on writing and mathematics.
Hopefully they stop teaching mathematics like it's a rote memorization game.
Those are the subjects that support all others.
Most people won't ever use the more 'advanced' mathematics, but still, I guess that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to educate the unintelligent masses.
Thank you Dave Raggett
is critical thinking.... unfortunately that would make teacher's job of herding students impossible.
hackers teach themselves
One of my teachers in high school gave me relatively unfettered access to a mac clones that had been booted from the computer lab. My experiments in getting mklinux working on it directly tie to my current career. I have relatively little doubt that my current career stems from having unstructured access to a computer and an internet connection. Sadly, our educational institutions are addicted to structure -- I would probably be doing something much less interesting if it weren't for a teacher that bent the rules and let me do something that might today be viewed as potentially dangerous.
I'm educated in Math FAR beyond the point that I think I'll ever need to be. In fact, far beyond the point that anyone outside academia needs to be. And I enjoyed very little of it, but was exceptionally good at it. As far as I'm concerned, studying it wasn't to gain knowledge or mathematical skills, it was more of an exercise in mental flexibility. And, despite what I thought at the time, I don't think that studying literature, history, or religious ed., were complete wastes either.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
While both hacking and cracking should be available to gifted students, most of them need to learn a simple skill that will take them far in life: how to file a bug report.
More companies nowadays depend on their software and good feedback from users is very hard to find. In such environment, those who can file a proper bug report, or write up an understandable feature request, can genuinely prosper.
Those who can properly ask for e.g. a data report from IT, or explain what's wrong with company's intranet website's feature that they use, usually get what they want and their productivity increases.
Any IT education should start there. Those who get hooked will learn how to "hack" (or crack...) regardless of their high school curriculum.
The educational system has turned into the educator of many trades and the master of none already.
I would argue that we teach too many subjects in high school as it is. We need to not only increase the high school graduation rates but also have the graduates have an equivalent of a 12 grade intelligence when they graduate.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
i grow tired of the never ending reframing of the word "hacker"..almost to the point of it becoming meaningless.
what TFA article is really saying is that "we want people to be motivated to use the technology to really LEARN the technology, and to do so during free time and out of the pure joy of learning how this crazy tech shit works"...kinda like learning to play a musical instrument (well, exactly like learning to play a musical instrument).
no one "teaches" someone how to play guitar...you may be shown some notes and simple phrases, but only by spending hours and hours of finger-cramping playing will one learn to play guitar. the frustration and struggle IS THE POINT.
let me say that again...THE FRUSTRATION AND STRUGGLE IS THE POINT.
that's what "hacker" should really mean...someone who endures FRUSTRATION and STRUGGLE and turns that experience into knowhow...it is really the basis of ALL LEARNING.
those that never "hack", never really learn *anything*.
never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
Before I tell my anecdotal story, I want to touch on the fact that the current educational environment is not conducive to this kind of think for yourself learning. We could have a lengthy debate about why this is, and I would mostly refer you to the Reece Committee and Norman Dodd's investigation into tax-exempt foundations. Suffice to say, the fact of the matter is that TPTB don't want a mass influx of independent self-taught thinkers, they want people just smart enough to push the buttons and papers they want them to but not smart enough to go above that (unless they are part of the aristocratic oligarchic class). This is the result of the purposeful introduction of the Prussian education system as a tool of class warfare, but I digress.
I happened to be very lucky in this regard, my highschool was a middle of no-where Mormon-area HS full of hicks and religious people, but a local had been in industry and decided to come back and head the technology department of the school, and brought with him his industry contacts. It was one of the first high-schools to have the cisco networking academy, and I had my CCNA by the age of 17. Besides all that, it was the attitude of this man, who I called my mentor, (Barry Williams of Apache County, if anyone cares to look it up) which really encouraged this kind of thinking. He would encourage us to solve problems on our own, and mostly left us to our own devices. I will never forget the first year I was there, where he organized a wargame, and each of us hooked up our issued cisco routers to a network and the challenge was to be the first to take down everyone elses network. After a few minutes I had taken out two other guys, but then he told all of us to stop, walked over to all our boxen, and simply unplugged the cables.
For a 16 year old that really had an impact on me about thinking "outside the box" of given parameters. Of course this kind of teaching did have it's downsides. I was only a fringe member of the group that did it, but I will never forget the day that people in suits showed up and talked to everyone around the high-tech center but us, and then the FBI held an assembly for this school of hicks and religious people about hacking (of which maybe 15 of us knew what that even was), because, apparently "A" (a senior while I was a sophomore) wasn't joking when he told us he got into the FBI servers. (in his defense, he said he only changed a spreadsheet and then changed it right back just to see if he could). Last I heard "A" was still on the run from the FBI for crimes committed after HS, and I know I definitely was tempted a few times to do naughty blackhat things but resisted the urge. The point is that while teaching critical thinking and hacking is good for the thinking abilities of the student, there can indeed be farther reaching consequences especially if they are of a lower socioeconomic status.
Note: Wow, I haven't logged into /. in ages. Not sure how I feel about it these days, was just bored at work and saw this story.
"It's ok, I'm completely secure as long as my iron is off"
As far as I'm concerned, studying it wasn't to gain knowledge or mathematical skills, it was more of an exercise in mental flexibility.
In public schools, it's more of a rote memorization exercise.
Thank you Dave Raggett
I might even be tempted to stretch that to education, as well. Kind of ironic that those who should be willing to teach are often those most scared of learning.
I've had teachers for whom that was not true, and those were the ones who really shone. But most of my technology-related teachers/professors would have been terrified.
What is a "12 grade intelligence"? Most people are incurably unintelligent, so a "12 grade intelligence" is never going to be impressive.
Thank you Dave Raggett
Anything worthwhile a child can learn is done outside of school on their own volition.
love is just extroverted narcissism
I started going to college for my math, physics, and chem as a high-school sophomore mostly for that reason (plus if you're still in high school, most states will pay for college classes if they have no courses to offer you in the public schools). Anybody with sufficient motivation and intellect could go to public grade school, ask "you want me to just memorize this?" and then pass the final the next week (probably forgetting that useless garbage on their way out the door.) In college, even in state schools, you're limited more by professors than courses and seeking out and impressing yourself on worthy professors isn't a huge hurdle.
That said, if you just need enough math to make change, calculate tips, possibly book reservations, and work a register, there's a very large sociological niche for that too. And, if you're good at relating to people, you stand a good chance of excelling in that niche. Different strokes, you know?
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
Yes. We do.
Damping absorbs vibrations. Dampening is caused by moisture.
When we read silly things like everyone must learn programming and this.
Where are the mod point when you need them, this should be +11 or so.
Based on my experience, the way my public HS handled this was pretty much the optimum. There were 3 academic sections for the "big" subject (English, math, history, some sciences), my recollection of the names is fuzzy but they were essentially advanced, average, and remedial. The latter is pretty self explanatory, and really, the best way to deal with somebody who needs extra help is to give it to them both to help that student and to keep from disrupting others.
The other two weren't really that different from one another; the advanced class moved a bit faster, maybe had a little extra time to explore an interesting subject a bit more in depth, and had a LOT less busy work. And that's a good thing, since nothing bores advanced students and makes them stop caring than having to do the same busy work over and over again. I'll also point out that the same student could be advanced in on subject and average in another.
And yes, I went to a good public school, they do exist.
They do... but they exist only so long as the schools have the flexibility to do what is right for their specific school. Every community is different.
The great danger is setting national standards that force schools to do everything the same way which will mean most people won't get what they need.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
The graduation exams have questions no harder than an eighth grade level. We shouldn't have to dumb down the questions to have graduates.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
Eighth grade? More like first grade. The questions don't test for understanding at all; just rote memorization. I fear most people wouldn't even come close to being able to handle questions that actually tested their understanding.
Thank you Dave Raggett