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Russians Suspected of Uroburos Spy Malware

Posted by samzenpus on from the from-russia-with-love dept.

judgecorp writes "While Russia's political activity is center stage, its cyber-espionage apparently continues. Russian intelligence is strongly suspected of being behind the Uroburos malware which is targeting Western governments and commercial organizations. There are Russian-language strings in the code, and it searches its victims' systems for Agent BTZ, malware used in previous attacks believed to have been carried out by Russia."

137 comments

  1. Russians lending a helping hand .. by Selur · · Score: 4, Funny

    to the NSA?

  2. not Russian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "There are Russian-language strings in the code" - this is actually proof that it is not Russian software

    1. Re:not Russian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No way dude, everyone knows that only real Russians know the Russian language therefore they are the only ones capable of inserting Russian-language strings in the code.

    2. Re:not Russian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Definitely there is nothing about false flags in the spook's manuals, nosiree, nothing at all.

    3. Re:not Russian by flyingfsck · · Score: 2

      Yup, imagine how time wasting and frustrating it would be to insert Cyrillic lettering in strings in your typical UTF8 programming language. So I don't buy that Rusky argument at all.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  3. That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when will Russia stop all these illegal wars?

    1. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by jasper160 · · Score: 1

      Everyone is copying the US now. I wonder where Russia's GITMO will be?

      --
      No good deed goes unpunished.
    2. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      when will Russia stop all these illegal wars?

      Has President Obama looked in the mirror and not seen the hypocrisy of the "illegal wars" claims against Russia? And wasn't the United States of Amerika and Israel behind the Stuxnet virus / worm affecting the sovereign country of Iran?

    3. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are some 100+ other countries on the planet who has not participated in an illegal war recently, if ever. What the US and its prez thinks of anything is hardly relevant to whether what Russia is doing is legal or not.

    4. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Siberia, where it has always been.

    5. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by cold+fjord · · Score: 3, Informative

      Everyone is copying the US now. I wonder where Russia's GITMO will be?

      That's kind of cute. I take it that for you history begins in the year 2000 and is limited to the US?

      Just as an FYI, Russia (nee Soviet Union) has been involved with espionage via computer for a very long time. One famous case:

      The Cuckoo's Egg: Tracking a Spy Through the Maze of Computer Espionage

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    6. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Jahoda · · Score: 3, Informative

      I sincerely, sincerely hope that you're joking. Whatever problems the United States may currently face, it is nothing compared to the Gulag Archipelago of the Soviet System. And I think you will find that the current regime has no problem with "extraordinary rendition" to faraway places, either.

    7. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by erikkemperman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Except that GP was not talking about copying the US' computer-based espionage operations, but the US' various illegal wars.

      You know, there is a bit of a mess unfolding in Ukraine. There are pro-russian and pro-european factions and the russians are obviously supporting the former -- with a completely illegal show of force.

      Less well known is that the pro-european factions supported by the West are largely far-right nationalists. Neonazis, pretty much. See, e.g. this piece by Max Blumenthal.

      --
      Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
    8. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Everyone is copying the Nazis now. I wonder when the Reichstag fire will... oh, right, 9/11."

    9. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The problem is that people have forgotten the atrocities of the Soviets. From "Moscow Fried Chicken" (the result of burning up refugees in Afghanistan) to the fact that leaving a country or a "zone" would mean a swift death for the person and their family, all the many atrocities done by the USSR or their puppets are history virtually forgotten since the Berlin Wall fell.

      Instead, the focus is on how evil the US is... but I would recommend someone compare the days of living in the early to mid 1980s in west Germany compared to the DDR... things are relative. The US might get caught spying, but they are not sending troops to attack German citizens because they want to go visit a nightclub in France.

    10. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having been to the Ukraine (not recently mind you), there is an alarming amount of right wing extremists. They aren't shy about the Neo Nazi label either, they adopt it proudly. And many of them are funded heavily by the Republican party and members of it.

    11. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... One famous case:

      The Cuckoo's Egg: Tracking a Spy Through the Maze of Computer Espionage

      You continually post a reference to that book...do you get some sort of financial benefit from it's sales? Just curious.

    12. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder if the people copying the renewal for your prescription dropped a digit? You clearly need a stronger dose, you aren't in touch with reality.

    13. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet more "fashionable" anti-US sentiment from the Slashtard crowd.

    14. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So has the US. Whats your point?

    15. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      No, I don't. I point people to it since it is both a good read and informative on many subjects that are discussed here, both directly and indirectly. If you read it you might understand.

      I prefer to have informed discussions. Unfortunately that is often difficult here, especially on certain topics. If more people were better informed, and maybe left behind various fringe theories or ideas, the discourse would be more useful.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    16. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by SpankiMonki · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem is that people have forgotten the atrocities of the Soviets...all the many atrocities done by the USSR or their puppets are history virtually forgotten since the Berlin Wall fell.

      Maybe that's because the Soviets/USSR doesn't exist anymore, and hasn't since 1991. If you think Putin's regime is equivalent to the USSR, then you should probably do a re-fresh of your geo-political perspective.

      Instead, the focus is on how evil the US is...

      You're right! Instead, let's focus on the past evils of the USSR and ignore the more recent evils of the US. Forget the NSA...KGB! US invasion of Iraq? No no no! Soviet invasion of Afghanistan! Abu Ghraib was nuthin compared to Kolyma, Norilsk, or Vorkuta!!! USA! USA! USA!

      Your strategy should really improve the credibility and moral authority of the US in the eyes of the rest of the world going forward. Why didn't someone think of this earlier?!?

    17. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I don't.

      It was in your sig at one point.

      If you read it you might understand.

      I have read it, and it's relevance to TFS/TFA is about as close as Kevin Bacon is to Mary Pickford.

    18. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      No, I don't.

      It was in your sig at one point.

      The point being that I don't get any financial benefit, as you had asked. The fact that my sig had a link to the book's page on Amazon doesn't change that.

      I have read it, and it's relevance to TFS/TFA is about as close as Kevin Bacon is to Mary Pickford.

      You must have missed my point about the long history of Russian involvement with espionage by computer, as shown in the book.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    19. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must have missed my point about the long history of Russian involvement with espionage by computer, as shown in the book.

      You must have missed my point about Kevin Bacon and Mary Pickford both being actors.

    20. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      The hacker in the book was working for the KGB. That is a direct relationship.

      Are we done?

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    21. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by bsDaemon · · Score: 1

      Putin is a former KGB officer (Lt. Colonel) who once referred to the fall of the Soviet Union as "the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century." Communist or not at this point, it almost doesn't matter. Call it the will to re-establish the Russian Empire. Putin likely sees himself as a latter-day Peter the Great, and is currently operating unchecked by a US executive branch and foreign policy apparatus that at best can be said to embody the culmination of Khrushchev's promise to "bury [the us] from within."

      Do you not consider it fishy that Yeltsin, who was largely responsible for the dissolution of the Soviet union, and who was seen as having had the support of the US in doing so would "unexpectedly resign" to make way for a hardliner with strong ties to the intelligence services? There is a reason that people call his approach to governing "Soft Stalinism" -- Stalin was crushing opponents and literally airbrushing them out of history before Photoshop was remotely on the horizon.

      Twenty million Ukrainians starved to death during forced collective farming in the first five-year plan of the Soviet Union. Leon Trotsky [Lev Bronstein] was a Ukrainian by birth (in much the same way that Joseph Stalin was a Georgian, the Bolshevik Revolution wasn't particularly Russian in nature). The animosity between Russian-speaking and non-Russian-speaking peoples in the Ukraine CANNOT be separated historically from rise nor fall of the Soviet Union, nor with the Crimean War when Russia first conquered Ukraine and brought into its fold the first time -- hence why Trotsky was able to participate in the revolution at such as senior level, and why Ukraine was there to suffer so greatly so early under the Soviet system.

      And regardless of any status of moral authority after the Iraq war, the fact that the US got involved in Iraq in the way we did doesn't take away from the issue at hand in Crimea now, any more than "But NSA!!!" makes actions by FSB (or, more likely, criminal organizations who have quid-pro-quo agreements with FSB) any less bad.

    22. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please define "illegal wars".

    23. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The hacker in the book was working for the KGB. That is a direct relationship.

      Kevin Bacon and Mary Pickford both were members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. That is also a direct relationship, is it not?

      Are we done?

      I sure hope not!

    24. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by erikkemperman · · Score: 2

      Please define "illegal wars".

      Lacking a mandate from the relevant institutions of international law; in the absence of a credible threat to national security; based entirely on circumstantial evidence, cherry-picked intel and plain fabrication; against the wishes of a large fraction of voters...

      Take your pick.

      --
      Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
    25. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 1

      when will Russia stop all these illegal wars?

      As soon as they win them and declare they were not illegal. The winners write the history book after all.

    26. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      That is also a direct relationship, is it not?

      No, it's not.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    27. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by SpankiMonki · · Score: 1

      Fair job of refuting GGP's assertion that "people have forgotten the atrocities of the Soviets".

      I say "fair" because of your grossly exaggerated figures on the death toll in the Ukraine, and your insinuation that there was something "fishy" about Putin taking over after Yeltsin resigned. Yeltsin appointed Putin to be his Prime Minister, and also made it clear he wished Putin to succeed him.

      I'm also not seeing much in your post in support of Putin's Russia being just like the old USSR, other than pointing to Putin's ambitions and his repressive methods. The fact is the Russian Federation is nowhere near as economically/militarily powerful or politically influential as the USSR during the Cold War. Not even close. Likewise, the level of murderous atrocities committed by the former USSR goes far far beyond any crimes perpetrated by the Russian Federation. Those that want to compare the wrongs of the USSR of the past to the wrongs of the US of the present are fools.

      And regardless of any status of moral authority after the Iraq war, the fact that the US got involved in Iraq in the way we did doesn't take away from the issue at hand in Crimea now, any more than "But NSA!!!" makes actions by FSB (or, more likely, criminal organizations who have quid-pro-quo agreements with FSB) any less bad.

      Quite true.

    28. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1

      The winners write the history book after all.

      It used to be like that in 19th Century, but that time is long gone ...

    29. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Less well known is that the pro-european factions supported by the West are largely far-right nationalists. Neonazis, pretty much. See, e.g. this piece by Max Blumenthal.

      Oh sweet manipulation....
      There is something like 2-3k Right Sector Activists in Kyev... ... so anti-nazi activists says: There are lots of Nationalists here, including Nazis ... ... so Blumenthal combines so it looks like its 1/3 ... ... so you cite him and it is 'largely' ...

      This is Russian secret service at work - surely in times of turmoil there are extremists - but
      these were mostly normal Ukrainian people fed up with totally corrupt government...
      And they were killed not by Nazi but by pro-Russian forces...

    30. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by bsDaemon · · Score: 2

      The USSR was no where near as powerful as the USSR that was presented via propaganda (from both sides). I would argue that Russia has much of Europe in a tighter noose now via natural gas exports than they did during Soviet days. Many of the gas lines also run through Ukraine by necessity, which is probably what this is really about as opposed to any feigned concern for Russian speakers in Crimea. It is true that Russia doesn't have as many satellites in its sway as it once did, but that's also largely to do with the evolution of the EEC to the EU as well as US and British pushes to get former Soviet states into NATO. However, while Russia doesn't have the political sway that it once did, that doesn't mean that regaining as much of that sway as possible isn't a motivator for Putin.

      Regaining degraded national prestige and empire has been a motivating factor for both Hard and Soft dictators throughout history. Not to Godwin this, but the precursory actions in WWII involved annexation of German-speaking areas that were lost to the German Empire after WW1. Likewise, Mussolini laid claim to much of the non-European territories formerly held by the Roman Empire (There is a reason why he adopted the fasces and why man hole covers in Italy are stamped SPQR these days). I believe that it is short sighted to say that because Russia does not have the influence that it once did that Putin will not try and gain as much of it back as possible.

      The major difference is that the USSR was an Ideology State, much like the United States is. It was meant to be the shining beacon for radical, revolutionary socialism and communism and as such enjoyed the support of left-wing workers' groups, academics and politicians around the world, whom they also supported in turn. The Russian Federation is a nation state based on the historical territory of a specific set of ethnic groups bound together by history, blood and language. It's much more like South Korea in that way, and that lack of ideological status is what will keep them from regaining Soviet-era sphere of influence. Beyond money, it isn't like anyone will be driven to spy for Russia these days who isn't a Russian. There are no Reds lurking in the halls of power looking for juicy secrets to pass to their ideological brothers in arms.

      With regards to your initial points, I'll accept my overstatement on Ukrainian deaths. I had that number stuck in my head for a long time. I may have been confusing it with similar Chinese issues (Communism tends to kill large numbers of people via stupidity as well as malice). However, I don't think that Yeltsin stating that he chose Putin to be his successor can necessarily be taken at face value. If a stone-cold killer had one over on you, what would you do? The fishiness comes from the resignation as opposed to a coupe. A coupe can be attributed outright. The fact that Yeltsin resigned, put a former intelligence officer with ties to the legal and illegal oligarchy (many of whom were also former KGB officers who leveraged those positions for economic gain after the fall of the Soviet Union), who then was able to play a shell game of power to where he has been either President or Prime Minister since 1999, smacks of strong-arming to me. However, that is supposition. I'm not in possession of any intelligence on the matter that hasn't already been made public.

      However, for the sake of comparison, since Putin assumed control of the Kremlin, the United States has been through 4 Speakers of the House (Gingrich, Hastert, Pelosi, Boehner) and 3 Presidents (Clinton, Bush, Obama). Obama will be out of office in 2016, but I am willing to bet that Putin will be around one way or another for some time to come. As the swap to Prime Minister showed, he is only limited by the conservativeness of his terms, not the number.

    31. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      You know, there is a bit of a mess unfolding in Ukraine. There are pro-russian and pro-european factions and the russians are obviously supporting the former -- with a completely illegal show of force.

      That is not accurate. There is a pro-Russia faction and a pro-Ukraine faction. The later are those that have lived there not only all of their lives, but their relatives before them. The former are Russians that the USSR put into place to control the local population, but these ppl stayed AFTER the break-up of the USSR.
      So, what you really have, are Russians vs. Ukrainians.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    32. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a pretty weak way to dismiss distrust of one of the most aggressive nations, with the most powerful military, that has the most pervasive spying apparatus in the world.

    33. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by akozakie · · Score: 1

      Oh, the naivety... The winners are just less clearly defined now. Unless it comes to actual combat, that clears things up. Let's hope that doesn't happen.

      Anyway, it seems like history will repeat again. Just like 1938. Diplomatic pressure, discussions, etc. right until the West is under attack. Oh, wow, how could that happen? Avoid war at all costs, sure, but find a good way to stop the conflict or don't be surprised later.

      Oh, and focus on the facts. This is not the time to discuss whether the political shift in Ukraine was legitimate or not. Focus on the actual territorial claim. Right now Russia is trying to tear Crimea apart from the Ukraine by military means. Focus on this fact. Maybe Crimea should be part of Ukraine, maybe not, doesn't matter at all. The use of the military is the problem. Or just ignore it, fine. Just don't be surprised if it doesn't stop there.

    34. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't it Russia that just invaded Ukraine, a peaceful European neighbor? I thought so.

    35. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you're wrong. Are we done now?

    36. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Except that GP was not talking about copying the US' computer-based espionage operations, but the US' various illegal wars.

      The story is about Russian hacking. Naturally the subject won't turn to Russian hacking, or even Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but to false allegations of "illegal" wars by the US. Typical, and a diversion.

      So, which "illegal wars" is the US uniquely "guilty" of?

      You know, there is a bit of a mess unfolding in Ukraine. There are pro-russian and pro-european factions and the russians are obviously supporting the former -- with a completely illegal show of force.

      I've heard.

      Less well known is that the pro-european factions supported by the West are largely far-right nationalists. Neonazis, pretty much. See, e.g. this piece by Max Blumenthal.

      Yes, I'm familiar with Russian charges that they are going to fight fascists in another smaller neighboring country. That was the excuse to invade Finland. The charge is recycled to invade and take territory from Ukraine.

      During the Stalin era, Soviet propaganda painted Finland's leadership as a "vicious and reactionary Fascist clique". Marshal C. G. E. Mannerheim and Väinö Tanner, the leader of the Finnish Social Democratic Party, were targeted for particular scorn.[52] With Joseph Stalin gaining near-absolute power through the Great Purge of 1938, the Soviet Union changed its foreign policy toward Finland in the late 1930s. The Soviet Union began pursuing the reconquest of the provinces of Tsarist Russia lost during the chaos of the October Revolution and the Russian Civil War. The Soviet leadership believed that the old empire had ideal security and territorial possessions, and wanted the newly christened city of Leningrad to enjoy a similar security. -- Winter War

      Yes, that is all too familiar.

      As for Max Blumenthal, I'm aware of his work. I don't consider his views useful given their crank fringe attributes.

      Are Mainstream Liberals Embracing Max Blumenthal’s ‘I Hate Israel Handbook’?

      You can see the nonsense in his piece that you link to. As part of the "proof" he mentions "white supremacist banners and Confederate flags," but somehow passes over the British, French, Canadian, and other flags present. Does that mean that the Ukrainians are also secretly French, British, and Canadian too, or just crypto-Confederates? It contains no small bit of rubbish. He is a useful idiot making excuses for Russia's invasion.

      Besides, if it the concern that prompted the invasion really was fighting "fascism," why didn't Russia take care of their own neo-Nazi and fascist problems at home first? It isn't a small problem, and they have been letting it bleed into Ukraine.

      Russian Neo-Nazis Are Now Beating Up Gays in Ukraine
      Russia neo-Nazis jailed for life over 27 race murders
      Russia: Far-Right Nationalists And Neo-Nazis March In Moscow
      Viral Vigilantism: Russian Neo-Nazis Take Gay Bashing Online
      Russian Neo-Nazis Made These Horrifying Videos of Anti-LGBT Attacks

      The Russians seem to be good at finding fascism and fighting it in all their neighbors, not

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    37. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trolls will troll.

    38. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that GP was not talking about copying the US' computer-based espionage operations, but the US' various illegal wars.

      Define what you mean by "illegal".
      Funny how people like to bitch about the US not honoring the Sovereignty of other Nations, but then advocate passing "laws" which attempt to impose rules on other Sovereign nations.
      There is not such thing as "International Law", it's just political Rhetoric. There are Treaties and Agreements, but by definition you can't have an "International Law" unless you have an "International Government".

      If what you meant is "illegal under that country's own laws" then in this current case, Putin isn't doing anything illegal under the laws of his own country. And the laws in the Ukraine don't apply to Russia, unless you want to claim that the Ukraine is somehow the lawful government of Russia.

      In any event, your knowledge of history is horribly lacking if you think that this is the first time that the Russians have decided to go around invading other countries, or that the US somehow invented the concept.

    39. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lacking a mandate from the relevant institutions of international law;

      If a nation is Sovereign then by definition it is not beholden to laws passed by other nations. The phrase "International Law" is almost a complete oxymoron, lacking some type of Empire which rules over various nations, and if such an Empire existed then you could reasonable argue it's all one "Nation" anyhow.

      The phrase "illegal war" and "international law" are just bullshit political rhetoric. It's group-think used to get idiots pissed off and offended about something by using the emotionally charged word "illegal", while implying that you have the right to boss around other sovereign nations through use of the word "law". If you don't like what a Sovereign Nation is doing, then you can run your mouth about it, refuse to do businesses with them, or start getting into a military conflict.

      Talk of "illegal" and "international law" is just more running off at the mouth, intended to whip the weak-minded into some kind of Righteous Frenzy so they'll support you when you start mobilizing your military.

    40. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by erikkemperman · · Score: 1

      I have no love for the Russian's handling of this, and said so clearly. But the post you originally replied to was emphatically not about Russian spying -- which, since the story as a whole is about that subject, made me wonder why you chose to post your old Cuckoo link specifically at that point in the thread.

      Somewhere further down I replied to someone else what I consider "illegal war", hope you don't mind a bit of laziness (it's early where I am at) and let me just copy paste that:

      Lacking a mandate from the relevant institutions of international law; in the absence of a credible threat to national security; based entirely on circumstantial evidence, cherry-picked intel and plain fabrication; against the wishes of a large fraction of voters...

      --
      Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
    41. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      The "illegal war" description doesn't fit Afghanistan at all, and not really Iraq either.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    42. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      That is pitifully stupid.

      Now we're done.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    43. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by erikkemperman · · Score: 1

      The "illegal war" description doesn't fit Afghanistan at all, and not really Iraq either.

      Really? So Iraq was a real threat to US national security? There were weapons of mass destruction after all? It has recently come to light that Powell's speech at the UN was less than 100% fabrication? A large majority of voters were in favour of it? No outlawed munitions were used?

      I guess we're just living in too different universes to be able to get to any agreement here. No biggie, carry on.

      --
      Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
    44. Re:That's all the proof I need .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now we're done.

      HA! That is where you are wrong my friend!!!

      You see, I am being paid by an outside organization to minimize the effect of your posts defending the security state. I will be pointing my handlers to this thread as proof that I'm able to distract you to such an extent that you're ability to perform your mission has been severely compromised. They'll prolly gimme a raise...the day is mine!!!!

  4. They did it so we can do it too. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The NSA does the same thing. Glass houses and whatnot.

  5. Proof? by miffo.swe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So any google translating script kiddie can make malware that puts the blame on Russia by just throwing random ruskie strings in and searching for alleged russian virii?

    Who came up with this scheme, the same person that talked about WMD in Iraq?

    --
    HTTP/1.1 400
    1. Re:Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This! I imagine we will be seeing all kinds of "Russia is Evil" propaganda for the next few weeks at least due to the turmoil in the Ukraine and Crimea.

    2. Re:Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Certainly nobody wants to condemn the invasion of a peaceful European neighbor by Russia. It's cute the way you substitute "turmoil" for invasion.

    3. Re:Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No need to make anything up. We may have always been at war with Eastasia, but Russia has been evil for a long, long time.

    4. Re:Proof? by ebno-10db · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You think the US gives a damn about that? Only to the extent that this is a new justification for the NSA's spying. The terrorist thing was wearing thin, so let's go back to the tried and true enemy of the Cold War. The FSB - if you can't beat 'em, imitate 'em (or is it the other way around these days?).

    5. Re:Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You think the US gives a damn about that? Only to the extent that this is a new justification for the NSA's spying. The terrorist thing was wearing thin, so let's go back to the tried and true enemy of the Cold War. The FSB - if you can't beat 'em, imitate 'em (or is it the other way around these days?).

      Uhh... How does this get +5 insightful? Have you read the news the past few days? The past few years for that matter? Russia is currently invading the Ukraine, which borders several NATO members (let's not forget they invaded Georgia in 2008 and took territory as well). Not to mention they are trying to strong arm old Soviet States back into a new economic and military union. Meanwhile, China is making new outlandish territorial claims of land and sea that would be comical if it weren't for their threats to use military force. I think our Cold War troubles are long from over and the world is far from being in a state where we will not need intelligence agencies.

    6. Re:Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      China is good at economic espionage. The US solar industry is a good example, where companies started reporting hacking attempts... then six months later, China started selling panels cheaper than the rare earths it took to make them.

      We are seeing two countries more than willing to throw their weight around because when trade and economies don't provide expansion, tanks and soldiers definitely will... It is only a matter of time before China takes over Taiwan, and possibly Japan. (Think the US will risk a nuclear exchange over either nation? Won't happen.) I wouldn't be surprised if Russian tanks are knocking on Germany's eastern door because Europe has their head in the sand on this issue.

      History repeats itself. My biggest fear is that the novel, "The Guns of August" are replaying, except staged a century later.

    7. Re:Proof? by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      It's not that nobody wants to condemn it, it's that the US can't do so without being hypocritical and the EU can't do so without threatening their oil/natural gas supply.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    8. Re:Proof? by ebno-10db · · Score: 3, Insightful

      China is good at economic espionage.

      Why bother w/ espionage when we give it away. Applied Materials' solar research center is in China. GE has a joint venture to build jet engines in China (particularly interesting since engines are the last major impediment to building all Chinese military aircraft). What the heck, maybe they can get Electric Boat to help them with their sub designs.

    9. Re: Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      us solar companies never failed. just ask all the ceo, insiders, and anyone in oil. it all worked out just like it was supposed to.

    10. Re:Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We are seeing two countries more than willing to throw their weight around because when trade and economies don't provide expansion, tanks and soldiers definitely will"

      Yes, we've seen a lot of this kind of behavior from the US too, so I wouldn't be surprised if Russia and China are doing it too.

    11. Re:Proof? by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      How does this get +5 insightful?

      Cheer up, it's back down to +2. The usual up/down mod games.

      Russia is currently invading the Ukraine, which borders several NATO members

      Yes, as many people pointed out at the time, it was clever to add NATO countries that made conflict with Russia more likely. At least somebody was planning ahead. They knew that Iraq and Afghanistan had to wind down eventually. This Russian thing is a wonderful complement to our "pivot to the Pacific". I always figure that was giving the navy a turn after the army and the air force had their wars, but now I see that all services will be given a chance.

      I think our Cold War troubles are long from over

      Oh good, that's a wonderful reason to avoid the proposed defense cutbacks. Maybe we'll even get an increase from it. The Cold War was very good for the job situation around here.

    12. Re:Proof? by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      As long as we keep it a cold war, everybody should be happy. Plenty of defense pork and no one gets hurt.

    13. Re:Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "virii" -- plural of "virius"

    14. Re:Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you referring to Crimea as being invaded? Seriously? Crimea asked the Russians to protect them! Further, Russia has a huge set of military bases in Crimea. If Cuba had a revolt and the US bases in Cuba were in question the US would do nothing to protect their interests in Cuba? How about Germany, Japan, S. Korea, or any place where the US has military base? Yeah, you are a douche oblivious to your own bias (or simply shilling propaganda).

    15. Re:Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They aren't invading Ukraine, they are liberating it. Like we did to Iraq and Afghanistan and Iraq again and Korea and Vietnam...

    16. Re:Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      china starts rattling it's sabers, and already japan is talking about removing the non aggression portions of their constitution. They already have enrichment capability and advanced plasma physics. If they really wanted to, they could rig up a basic implosion bomb H bomb in a few months. Same goes for Taiwan. China wouldn't dare risk having Hong Kong or Shanghai turned into radioactive dust.

    17. Re:Proof? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Uhh... How does this get +5 insightful?

      How did this get +4, Interesting? Ukraine isn't experiencing a revolution, it's experiencing a US-backed fascist coup by Neo Nazis. A coup overthrowing a democratically-elected government after the Fatherland party couldn't win at the ballot box.

      This part is a replay of Syria, where a group that has been demonized by everyone are suddenly great allies worthy of U.S. support. In Syria it was Al Qaeda, and in Ukraine it's a bunch of anti-semetic Neo Nazis. But that's no problem at all if you're a neocon American Exceptionalist.

    18. Re:Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the thread comments. Either the propaganda is working because that many people simply believe what they are told, or Slashdot has 'that' many shills trying to bolster the propaganda the US is trying to churn out. Probably a mixture of the two things.

    19. Re:Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You, sir or lady, are seriously misguided. Are you from the Fox News? Russia did not invade anybody. Those 26K troops that are currently stationed at Krim are the troops that were there even before Maidan. Their presence in the region is legalized by a treaty between Ukraine and Russia. I hope it's not the first time you hear that Russia has a naval base in Sevastopol. Get your shit together, seriously.

      Disclaimer: I am from a NATO member country that _does _border Ukraine (yes, you could use Sherlock-like deduction and figure out which one)

    20. Re:Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you took the time to read the article, or had any clue at all about what you are talking about, then you would quickly realize that Uroburos is most certainly not written by script kiddies.

      If you know nothing about a topic, why share your opinion?

    21. Re:Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So any google translating script kiddie can make malware that puts the blame on Russia by just throwing random ruskie strings in and searching for alleged russian virii?

      Well it worked when we wanted to convince the World that the US and Israel wrote Stuxnet, so why not?

      Signed, your Chinese Pals

    22. Re:Proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We are seeing two countries more than willing to throw their weight around because when trade and economies don't provide expansion, tanks and soldiers definitely will"

      Yes, we've seen a lot of this kind of behavior from the US too, so I wouldn't be surprised if Russia and China are doing it too.

      Surprised? It hasn't been any kind of fucking secret. Fuck this is frustrating, do you people pay ANY attention to the World and History, or do you just all sit around inside your Echo Chambers jerking off?
      And it's hardly the US who has been doing this, do you pay ANY goddamn attention to what goes on in the Middle East, Africa, South America, or Korea? I guess not, because there's a whole shitload of you morons who bought into the bullshit political rhetoric which says the US is the root of all the Evil in the world today.

      If I didn't seriously think it would end up bleeding over into the US, I'd be a strong advocate of simply pulling all our forces back into the US, going full-on Isolationist, and sit back with some popcorn while the rest of you idiots proceeded to beat the fuck out of each other. Stand with the Japanese and the South Koreans, the Canadians have our backs, we could annex Mexico and most of South America in a few months, and have all the food and natural resources we needed while you blithering idiots lay waste to the rest of the planet. Shit, we could ship all the Mexicans back to Spain and give the bulk of the land to the Native American tribes, and our half of the planet would be A-OK.

      Fuck the Old World, bunch of pompous little bitches.

  6. Script Kiddie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the last, what?, ten years all of the exploits have been found by professional security researchers, spy organizations (Stuxnet), and other exploits were done by very serious experts who REALLY knew their shit.

    Which says a lot about our current computing environment - even Windows: one has to be a real expert (like PhD level) to find current exploits.

    Things are like they were in the 90s where running a script is all you need. You just don't see those mistakes very much anymore.

    that particular system that Target was using.

    Today's attacks are done by the pros - with resources.

    1. Re:Script Kiddie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Which says a lot about our current computing environment - even Windows: one has to be a real expert (like PhD level) to find current exploits.

      You can find exploits by stumbling upon them when doing something related to the exploitable functionality. Utilizing them requires skill, though.

    2. Re:Script Kiddie? by ebno-10db · · Score: 2

      That's what it takes to infiltrate well secured computers and networks. For the most part though infiltrators rely on badly secured stuff these days. The Target invasion was possible due to poor security practices - which Target's own IT/security people warned management about.

    3. Re:Script Kiddie? by chaim79 · · Score: 2

      In the last, what?, ten years all of the exploits have been found by professional security researchers, spy organizations (Stuxnet), and other exploits were done by very serious experts who REALLY knew their shit.

      Actually, what you are seeing is criminals taking over the exploitation of exploits, before it was hackers having fun and sending "it's my birthday" messages around, now it's serious criminals using exploits to steal serious money. These people don't advertize their finds, they use them to the fullest extent possible. When PHD's find an exploit you can be sure 90% of the time it's already known to criminals who have used it for a while.

      If you wonder at the accuracy of that, just look around at how many viruses are out there and start counting the news reports for companies compromised.

      --
      DEMETRIUS: Villain, what hast thou done?
      AARON: Villain, I have done thy mother.
      Shakespeare invents 'your mom'
    4. Re:Script Kiddie? by mlts · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem is that there are -so many- weak links these days. Anything, be it the application, web server, backend server, DB server, Web browser, Web browser add-ons, OS, firmware, NIC firmware, router, switch, can have a weakness that can be easily exploited to cause a lot of issues. Air-gapping will help prevent those attacks, but I'm sure if it is a big organization wanting the data, rich enough to buy 0-day exploits from an auction, they are rich enough to have "boots on the ground" in a target country to perform physical attacks (sticking a USB flash drive into a machine and letting Autorun/Autoplay do the rest, for example.)

      In the '90s, the computer industry had two choices, go the secure route, or go the cheap route. It is obvious how the industry went. Even languages that could offer provable security with known states are all but dead [1], so there is no way other than just keep patching holes, to have any semblance of solid security these days.

      It would be nice to start from scratch. There are still ways to have provable states and know how a program will function, even with edge/corner cases. Similar with hardware. If we go with known good embedded operating systems, an attack on an IP stack will have limited consequences.

      [1]: Ada may be ugly, but it does offer provable security.

    5. Re:Script Kiddie? by ebno-10db · · Score: 2

      The problem is that there are -so many- weak links these days.

      True, but so many of the big invasions, like the Target deal, use things that were securable, and that people (like their own security/IT people) said should be secured. Security is an endless software arms race, but the attackers usually take advantage of the defense's sloppiness or cost cutting. Even Stuxnet required some German engineer to unknowingly plant via a thumb drive.

      Ada may be ugly, but it does offer provable security.

      Ada has some definite advantages, like avoiding buffer overflows, but in and of itself can't guarantee security. I do agree though that using a language like that would be a big improvement.

    6. Re:Script Kiddie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Target was a lightning strike, where not even the best in the industry could have done much to stop that attack. They have some of the best professionals in the industry, but against the well-heeled James Bond types, even they can fall.

  7. The source articles aren't much help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They don't provide IP addresses OR host-domain names of infected systems + Botnet C&C Servers this malware/rootkit uses (to block via firewalls or hosts files).

  8. Relevant old joke... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What do you call a 8ft Gorilla wielding a machette?

    1. Re:Relevant old joke... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What?

    2. Re:Relevant old joke... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you call a 8ft Gorilla wielding a machette?

      What?

      Russia's pet monkey. (It's the army mascot. )

    3. Re:Relevant old joke... by redcaboodle · · Score: 1

      Sir!

      --
      -- Put crudely, the world is an extremely large problem instance. (Russel/Norvig Artificial Intelligence)
  9. Here's one of the russian strings found by JoeyRox · · Score: 3, Funny

    "In Soviet Russia, computer attacks you!"

    1. Re:Here's one of the russian strings found by Orleron · · Score: 0

      I, for one, welcome our Russian hacker overlords.

  10. Where have we heard this before? by Jahoda · · Score: 2

    Goodness, my "fellow" American hawks sure are itching for war with Russia. Unfortunately, I don't think this is the solution to domestic problems and the care and feeding of the media that they believe it will be.

    1. Re:Where have we heard this before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yep. They're the trendy bad guy this week. Also, to recap:

      Protests in Ukraine = good whereas protests in Thailand = bad. It all depends no who is about to be overthrown so a puppet that is friendly to the agenda of the IMF can be installed.

    2. Re:Where have we heard this before? by temcat · · Score: 0

      It takes NOT to invade a neighboring country to avoid being a trendy bad guy of the week. Yeah, I know, that's too big a challenge for some.

    3. Re:Where have we heard this before? by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      In general people are suspicous of protestors who refuse elections.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    4. Re:Where have we heard this before? by temcat · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and a footcloth can have mod points, too, who woulda thunk?

    5. Re:Where have we heard this before? by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1

      Bullshit, the situations in the two countries are not even remotely comparable. You should check your reality distortion field.

      The opposition leaders in Thailand do not want to have any new elections, not now and not later, and have publicly declared their intention not to have elections. (They would invariably loose them.) The protesters in Ukraine have already fixed the date for a new election. They got rid of a completely corrupt vassal of Putin who enriched himself, put an important opposition leader into prison by the same methods of corrupting justice as Putin uses, and poisoned another important opposition politician. And that's only the beginning of the differences ...

    6. Re:Where have we heard this before? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Riiiiiiiiight. Lets say Putin has supported a far left-wing coup of the democratically elected government of Canada, after the far-leftists had lost an election. Any of you American Exceptionalists going to try and say with a straight face that the US Army wouldn't already been in Ottawa seeing to Harper's return to power?

    7. Re:Where have we heard this before? by temcat · · Score: 1

      WTF? I mean, wouldn't then America be the trendy bad guy of that week, and not only in Russia?

    8. Re:Where have we heard this before? by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Bullshit, the situations in the two countries are not even remotely comparable.

      Of course they're comparable, since both protest "movements" are aimed at overthrowing democratically-elected governments.

      They got rid of a completely corrupt vassal of Putin

      So they can install an even more corrupt vassal of Obama, who will happily take those IMF loans with the standard requirement that the government pass crushing austerity measures?

      The protesters in Ukraine have already fixed the date for a new election.

      After oppressing ethnic Russians. Sort of like how Israel pretends to be a democracy, after denying occupied Palestinians the right to vote. If the elitist protestors in Thailand could just slice out the part of the electorate they don't like, they'd have elections too.

  11. Don't trust anyone anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There are Russian-language strings in the code, and it searches its victims' systems for Agent BTZ, malware used in previous attacks believed to have been carried out by Russia

    And this would make everyone believe that Russia would be so stupid as to put Russian language into the code? Bullshit. This is exactly what China or US or especially Pakastan or Iran would do to make it look Russian so as to start a fight between the greater powers. Its political bullshit intrigue101 make it so obvious. You can't trust anyone or anything nowadays. These governments are out of control on earth.

    1. Re:Don't trust anyone anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stupid, no - Arrogant, yes. It's likely that they simply don't care.

    2. Re:Don't trust anyone anymore by Megol · · Score: 1
      Mistakes happen my anonymous friend. Thinking that Russia doesn't (as the US, UK, France and many other countries) doesn't develop software for electronic warfare is one.

      It is well known that the black market for software have largely been dominated by Russian coders. High skills and few jobs allows such things to grow. Even if the majority of those programmers switched to "the white market" when the Russian economy grew there still is a huge amount of skilled workers perfect for doing electronic warfare stuff.

  12. I must be Russian by wcrowe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "It has Russian language strings in the code, so it must be Russian intelligence behind it!"

    (facepalm) Really? This is an example of investigative prowess?

        , .

    I must be Russian. There are Russian language strings in my post.

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
    1. Re:I must be Russian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It must be true, cold fjord told us.

    2. Re:I must be Russian by CaseCrash · · Score: 1

      , .

      Ha ha! Slashdot has foiled your nefarious plan by not supporting unicode!

      --
      No, that link you posted to a web comic we've all seen a hundred times is not "obligatory."
    3. Re:I must be Russian by wcrowe · · Score: 1

      Ha! Yet it looked fine in preview. Well played, Slashdot, well played.

      --
      Proverbs 21:19
    4. Re:I must be Russian by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

      Well, it's true. You should have at least some Russian intelligence to speak or write Russian...

      --
      Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
  13. So that's why CafeWorld loaded slow by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Next time, note to self:

    Defriend Russians before attack on vital strategic cooking interests.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  14. confederate flags? In Ukraine? by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Sounds fishy. It SOUNDS like an American columnist came up with it out of his own head and forgot that Ukraine doesn't have southern democrats.

    1. Re:confederate flags? In Ukraine? by erikkemperman · · Score: 1

      Sounds fishy. It SOUNDS like an American columnist came up with it out of his own head and forgot that Ukraine doesn't have southern democrats.

      Svoboda and right sector are hardly being coy about it.

      But yes, confederate flags sound crazy, I agree. In fact, if I were writing a fishy column I would have discarded that bit as being too obviously fabricated.

      But then I don't expect a lot of sanity or even rationality from people who suffer from the kind of ideas these guys have. The local far right and left fringes of the spectrum share this habit of exchanging symbols with remote, but like minded, groups it seems.

      --
      Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
    2. Re:confederate flags? In Ukraine? by Megol · · Score: 2

      Sounds fishy. It SOUNDS like an American columnist came up with it out of his own head and forgot that Ukraine doesn't have southern democrats.

      Svoboda and right sector are hardly being coy about it.

      But yes, confederate flags sound crazy, I agree. In fact, if I were writing a fishy column I would have discarded that bit as being too obviously fabricated.

      But then I don't expect a lot of sanity or even rationality from people who suffer from the kind of ideas these guys have. The local far right and left fringes of the spectrum share this habit of exchanging symbols with remote, but like minded, groups it seems.

      Which is bullshit propaganda.

      That nazis (or more correctly extremely right wing - though they are more moderate now compared with some years back) are a _small_ part of the group complaining about the corrupt government doesn't have anything to do with this. That a corrupt government goes against the will of the people who peacefully protest until the government forces begins killing people is another.

      Trying to paint the protesters as nazis is provably false as the vast majority are liberal and trying to say that they were supported by "west" (whatever that mean*) is also propaganda. But you sure like to swallow that, right?

      One have to remember that Russia have had experience in black propaganda and false flag sabotage against themselves (in order to be able to "react" while looking like a victim) since at least the 1800s. Anybody studying history should be able to cite some examples but I'll just name one of the most known: the protocols of sion. Many Russian politicans still believe that it is true BTW.

      (* someone recognize that Russia is starting to use cold war terms lately?)

    3. Re:confederate flags? In Ukraine? by erikkemperman · · Score: 1

      There is nothing controversial about the fact that John McCain stood shoulder to shoulder with Oleg Tyahnybok, the leader of Svoboda, or the fact that the latter are a far right group occupying 37 seats. Or that their paramilitary outgrowth was prominently at the frontline on that square. I don't doubt the ousted leaders' corruption, by the way, but my enemy's enemy is not necessarily my friend.

      --
      Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
    4. Re:confederate flags? In Ukraine? by erikkemperman · · Score: 1

      Damn, that came out wrong. Of course McCain standing there is (or should be) highly controversial, but the observation that he did so is not.

      --
      Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
    5. Re:confederate flags? In Ukraine? by Megol · · Score: 1

      There is nothing controversial about the fact that John McCain stood shoulder to shoulder with Oleg Tyahnybok, the leader of Svoboda, or the fact that the latter are a far right group occupying 37 seats. Or that their paramilitary outgrowth was prominently at the frontline on that square. I don't doubt the ousted leaders' corruption, by the way, but my enemy's enemy is not necessarily my friend.

      Of course not. But trying to show this as a western supported group of nazis doing a violent revolution against a legal government and they are now threatening the Russian minority is, to be short, obviously and plainly false propaganda.

      That Russians maybe think that's the truth isn't that strange given the increasingly state controlled media in that country but for anyone that have access to world wide media that is obvious.

      For the sake of the world I hope Putin withdraw the troops as soon as possibly. Given his ego and ambitions potentially causing a world war is however a small price to pay I think...

  15. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  16. Uroburos Released into the Atmosphere by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Complete Global Saturation!

  17. Get a brain, morans! by Uberbah · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem is that people have forgotten the atrocities of the Soviets.

    The problem is that American Exceptionalists pretend their shit doesn't stink. You want to talk about Stalin's gulags? Great! But then lets also talk about how the United States was formed by genocide, slavery, and conquering nations that hadn't attacked us. You want to talk current events, start by explaining how Putin is in the same universe as torturing, democracy overthrowing, murdering, invading, droning, innocent-imprisoning universe as George W. Obama?

    1. Re:Get a brain, morans! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That FSB paycheck must be good. Or do those guys shuffle the propaganda shills to a contracting agency for their cash?

    2. Re: Get a brain, morans! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot to mention that Russia was formed by pogroms, serfdom, and conquering nations that hadn't attacked them... then they got Stalin's gulags.

    3. Re:Get a brain, morans! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that people have forgotten the atrocities of the Soviets.

      The problem is that American Exceptionalists pretend their shit doesn't stink. You want to talk about Stalin's gulags? Great! But then lets also talk about how the United States was formed by genocide, slavery, and conquering nations that hadn't attacked us. You want to talk current events, start by explaining how Putin is in the same universe as torturing, democracy overthrowing, murdering, invading, droning, innocent-imprisoning universe as George W. Obama?

      Why stop there? There's plenty of Muck to rake up about pretty much any nation, go take a look at the history of England, France, Spain, Greece, Italy, France, and well damn near everyone else on the fucking planet.
      The point is that any time someone starts trying to have a discussion some Yank-hater decides to go all Emo on the US and act like they're the greatest Evil the world has ever known. So it's more than reasonable to expect people to point out that this is hardly an accurate claim, and that the only way you could possibly think it's a true statement is if you are woefully ignorant of World History.
      Especially when some dipshit starts trying to act like Gitmo is anything at all like the Siberian prison systems which exist to this day, or the North Korean death camps (sorry, did I say 'Death Camps'? I meant Happy Camps!).

      I really hope you're just trolling, but I can't rule out the possibility that you're simply an ignorant fool.

    4. Re:Get a brain, morans! by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      I really hope you're just trolling, but I can't rule out the possibility that you're simply an ignorant fool.

      I can rule out the possibility that you're anything but a dim-witted projectionist.

      Why stop there? There's plenty of Muck to rake up about pretty much any nation, go take a look at the history of England, France, Spain, Greece, Italy, France, and well damn near everyone else on the fucking planet.

      Because, you fucking tool, the point here isn't to wing some game of whataboutery. The point is that no nation with the blood of a hundred million or so people on it's hands has any business throwing stones in a glass house. That the U.S. has zero moral high ground to criticize anyone on the planet.

      Especially when some dipshit starts trying to act like Gitmo is anything at all like the Siberian prison systems

      How stupid are you dipshit projectionists, anyway? The Soviet Union has been gone for over 20 years. Stalin has been gone for over 60. Whereas people even George W. Obama has admitted are innocent are being held in Gitmo right now.

    5. Re: Get a brain, morans! by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      You forgot to mention that

      Nope.

      was formed by pogroms, serfdom, and conquering nations that hadn't attacked them

      Irrelevant since I don't play whataboutery. Obviously, the point is that the United States has no moral high ground to criticize anyone on the planet. Obviously.

    6. Re:Get a brain, morans! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You want to talk current events, start by explaining how Putin is in the same universe as torturing, democracy overthrowing, murdering, invading, droning, innocent-imprisoning universe as George W. Obama?

      LOL. Talk about setting a low bar. American Exceptionalism was very different than most how other countries had ever behaved. Now, America is just another one of the animal countries. Russia has been, and still is, an animal country. In other words, America has sunk to the levels of Russia and Russia was NEVER a shining beacon of rationality and human freedom.

      Let default human behavior (as nasty as it is) rule! Woot woot!

    7. Re:Get a brain, morans! by strikethree · · Score: 1

      But then lets also talk about how the United States was formed by genocide, slavery, and conquering nations that hadn't attacked us.

      How about you name one country that was NOT founded in that manner. Hm?

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    8. Re:Get a brain, morans! by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      How about you name one country that was NOT founded in that manner. Hm?

      How about you use your brain for two seconds, or at least read the responses already in the thread, so you don't embarrass yourself. Hm?

    9. Re:Get a brain, morans! by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Talk about setting a low bar.

      Talk about missing the (obvious) point.

      was NEVER a shining beacon of rationality and human freedom

      You mean the PR campaign when the Soviet Union was still around? The U.S. has never ever ever evah been a beacon for anything but capitalist scumfuckery. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

  18. Re:Why are they targeting America? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are an idiot.

  19. shoulder to shoulder? My homework by raymorris · · Score: 1

    I could do my own homework on this since I don't know what you're talking about, but I probably won't, so I'll just ask.

    By "shoulder to shoulder" do you mean physically, that the two people were at the same event? That is, standing near each other in the same way that the executioner stands next to the condemned? The same way that Bush Jr. physically stood shoulder to shoulder with Obama?

    1. Re:shoulder to shoulder? My homework by erikkemperman · · Score: 1

      Google image search "McCain Svoboda". Yes, physically side by side, and not like an executioner and a condemned man.

      People seem to somehow have read my post as pro-Russia, but actually I just wanted to point out that at least some if the anti-Russia crowd is rather unsavory and, imho, should probably not be propped up by western officials. For the record, I think the Russian response is completely out of line.

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      Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)