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Facebook To Pay City $200K-a-Year For a Neighborhood Cop
theodp writes "Valleywag reports that Facebook just bought itself a police officer and questions what kind of mechanism will be in place to make sure the officer — whose position Facebook has agreed to fund to the tune of $200K-a-year for 3 years — doesn't provide preferential protection for the social network giant and its employees. It's probably a fair question, considering that U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder made the City of New Orleans enter into a federal consent decree designed to address the 'divided loyalties' of the city's moonlighting police officers. But for now, everything's hunky-dory in Menlo Park, where Police Chief Robert Jonsen called the deal a 'benchmark in private-public partnerships.' No doubt it is, as was last week's Google-City of San Francisco deal to fund free bus passes for low- and middle-income kids. But is giving earmarked funding to facilitate self-serving city expenditures a good or bad development?"
200k plus for *ONE* cop? I know that health insurence and retirement bennies add to the base wage, but 200k plus a year? How much is this dude making take home?
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
After your check clears.
You could hire a private security guard for less. It's not like citizens don't have the same arresting powers as police if trespassers had to be dealt with.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
As if cops weren't already completely biased towards corporations and against individual citizens.
This is a move in the direction satirised by RoboCop (the original). Very bad news.
want to spend the day on in Cupertino?
Pay your fucking taxes and accept good service in return. If the service isn't good, fix it for everybody or buy your own private cops. The need for private cops embarrasses the public cops, which it should.
Buying government cops is the merger of corporation and state--the very definition of fascism and inherently corrupt.
Not just cops. The Google "public private partnership" is corrupt too; but not quite as bad since it doesn't involve guys with guns.
Sounds a lot like the mafia.
I work down the street from their menlo park/willow road campus. Right now Facebook is building an apartment complex across the street from HQ. They've promised to only rent 10% of the apartments to their employees with the other 90% being offered to the general public at market rate.
Despite the nice sounding name, Menlo Park's east side is akin to East Palo Alto. Slum neighborhoods, crime, ghetto. With the influx of google/facebook employees however the neighborhood is slowly gentrifying.
I think facebook wants to turn the neighborhood into something more appealing for their employees.
Everything. And at some level, society needs to be built around facilitating and accommodating business. Again... they pay for EVERYTHING.
Should any one business get preferential treatment? No.
However, business itself should get preferential treatment.
Why? Because if business is unhappy in a given area... the area dies. Look at Detroit. That's what happens if you piss all over business for decades. And keep in mind, Detroit has had tens of billions pumped into it by the federal government to try and keep it alive. Over many years going back generations now. It doesn't matter. Piss on business and you'll wither and die.
So... getting to the issue of these private police and bus passes. Why are these companies giving the local government extra money? Because the local government is shaking them down. Google for example is having its ability to commute workers into and out of San Fransisco interfered with... that's not sustainable. Either it has to stop or Google can't maintain a workforce in the city. Google has therefore attempted to bribe the city into doing something the city should have done at no additional cost.
As to facebook... no idea why they're buying the police. But I can only assume they've had security problems and the local police were not responsive. As a result... they've felt the need to incentive assistance.
All told the whole thing is pretty sad. And before someone talks about the evil corporations, lets get something straight... look around the country in more business friendly areas. Take texas or South Dakota or either of the Carolinas... how much of this police buying are we seeing there? Not much. So California is where we're seeing this now.
Why of why would that be?
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Wealthy benefactors contributing to public infrastructure and social programs was basically how ancient Rome functioned.
Yeah, but it's about moving the Overton window. As the democratic state becomes weaker, private businesses take over a governing role. Before you had to bribe - now you just pay directly for cops.
So this is already a working, employed cop?
And he will continue to receive his government salary and do his day job? So what does he just have two jobs now? During the day to protect citizens, and during the night to protect FB?
Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Some rich people have this idea that they can live in their cozy-comfy enclaves, and let the rest of the world go to shit. In fact, not only to let it go, but to hasten it's demise through plunder. Sorry. If you're rich and you think of yourself this way, instead of imagining that you are separated on some island, picture a bulkhead of a ship with a wall built similar to the Titanic's (not going all the way to the top). You breathe the same air, eat food from the same farms and fish from the same ocean, and your shit goes to the same place. There are a lot more monkeys on the other side of that bulkhead wall than you've got on your side, and if you think you can isolate yourselves from the problems on the other side, well ... you're gonna have a bad time.
Look where all this talking got us, baby.
What is next? Everybody should pay for "protection"?
When they are fully funded by taxes alone. Please, it is virtually impossible to get rid of any police officer for anything. Look at the CA Dorner case. Police shot at two cars of innocent people and nothing happened to them - at all. And people worry about this. Bullshit.
Private entities pay for cops all the time, this isn't as radical as it seems. For instance, when I used to be involved in student government we knew that part of the cost of having a big event was having to pay for the mandatory number of cops who had to be there. The city knew that college students in large groups were trouble, and they didn't want to have to foot the bill, so they passed an ordance that required us to foot the bill for any event with X number of people expected (I forget what X was).
I'm pretty sure the same thing happens with some concerts, sporting events, etc.: the municipalities don't want to pay, so they make the entity responsible pay for it. Then again, lots of stadium owners have cozy deals with the city, which probably avoid this sort of thing.
In any case, the only unusual thing about this that I can see is that's a full-time gig.
Make yourself productive or move to the Central Valley and stop complaining.
If facebook paid honest taxes where they operate, the city could afford to do this without the commercial influence. Where does a non-fb-employee stand in a legal quarrel with fb if the police in the case is only existing through the grace of fb? Dont let 'fucked up idea to begin with' be the enemy of 'thinking up a reasonable solution' - Especially when FB is avoiding paying to the obvious (already instated) solution to begin with - a solution that actually benefits everyone, not just fb.
I question the morality of cops for hire. Doesn't a private company paying the police anything, for any reason, other than general taxation, imply corruption?
I know that there are university cops at private colleges with their own cars and shit, but this just seems weird.
"If the service isn't good, fix it for everybody"
They did.
They earmarked the funds for a cop, instead of just giving the city money to spend on whatever stupid, politically motivated bullshit worth maybe $25,000 some city councilman's brother in law could get away with selling the city for that same $200,000.
I rather approve of earmarks like this.
If I could earmark donated funds for specific uses, like solar powered LED street lights that pretty much never need service for 20+ years, I'd probably buy several for my neighborhood, as they are ~$500 each, and labor to put them up couldn't be more than ~$200 each (and if it was, I'd hire the private contractors to do the work instead of city employees). I'd happily pay $3,500 out of pocket for 5 lights to get safer streets in my immediate neighborhood.
Yo Chummers. Looks like the privatization of the police force is coming right along.
Other corps have already slicked the justice system in their favor.
See you in the shadows!
Perhaps large corporations contributing to public funds goes some tiny way to compensate for their tax avoidance schemes, that helped make the local and federal governments short of cash in the first place.
Jokes aside this stuff scares me. It's basically the rich getting their social services without letting the poors have them. Very few people recognize the tremendous amount of luck that goes into becoming and then staying wealthy. It basically means either a) life was handed to you on a silver plate or b) absolutely nothing major ever went wrong in your life or the lives of your immediate family.
It's like how the fund the schools here with property tax. They don't do that to be fair. They do it so the rich don't have to pay for the poor's educations.
Now, on the topic of why the rich _should_ be paying for that. Well, that's the price of a stable and progressive civilization.
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real cops are better then rent a cops who have little to no cop power
This is just a quiet, PR-positive way of very slowly taking governance out of the hands of voters and putting it in the hands of corporate executives. You can read about it here.
Armed soldiers with arrest powers no longer accountable to the people? What could go wrong?
The incidence of Google users and staff being brutally manhandled by 'police' in Menlo Park has dramatically increased.
If they would just pay their fucking taxes this kind of shit would not be necessary.
Ah, yes, the old "fair share" argument. Tell you what: feel free not to take the deductions and exemptions you are entitled to take on your taxes. What? You don't feel like volunteering to pay more than you owe? Wow, neither does Facebook!
If you think FB isn't paying enough taxes then push for a simplified tax code without deductions. You people act like individuals/companies are doing something wrong by not volunteering to pay more taxes than they are required to do. If you think they are actually defrauding the government rather than abiding by the laws, then by all means, attempt to have them audited and prosecuted.
Don't blame people for being smart, though. FFS, it's just *ironic* to do that on a "nerd" site.
BTW, I see you are a member of the "let's have no police officer in the area at all" camp. Remember, there's no third option where you magically extract more money from the public and inject it into the government's budget. This city needs FB far more than FB needs the city. Enjoy your ivory tower. Hope you don't get mugged without any police protection there.
Is this story a coherent paragraph? If so, I need to go back to school.
The problem is that when that happens, then the city cuts police funding by $200k. Earmarks don't work, unless the person giving them has some say over their use (as an annual grant has). But like the Lotto in Texas going to schools resulted in the school funding from the general fund decreasing by the amount earned in the lotto, the result was exactly the same as if the lotto funded the general fund, but was an easier sell to lie about it's use.
Learn to love Alaska
The problem is that by paying for the cop, they tell the city "there'd better be a cop right here".
Which is not how efficient policing works.
Imagine, to oversimplify, that the cop responds to a burglary 6 blocks away. At the same time, someone on/near the FB campus gets victimized. Will FB blame to city for the cop not being there? Will he have to turn around because the 911 from FB is more important? Is that rule written, or is it just a strong hint given to the dispatcher?
What about presence in bad areas, which is a more effective practice than protecting one campus? Cant the cops go patrol a 20-block radius, or do they need to make sure that someone is always near FB?
What happens to giving deserved tickets to FB employees, when their boss pays Bob?
Who'd have thought that America's first domino piece of descent into corporatist totalitarianism would be Facebook?
This is still much better than the nation's leader choosing which laws to enforce instead of going through the real process of changing the laws.
When you take into account cost of his titanium armor, ammo for his special sidearm, computer support systems... really that's not a bad price per year.
Wait, we are talking about Robocop, right? I mean, come on, it's Google. He wouldn't be the first computer driving a car around there or anything...
The problem is that by paying for the cop, they tell the city "there'd better be a cop right here".
I expect the conversation went more like this:
FB: "We are building new housing in a ghetto area and we plan to have 10% of it go to our employees, and 90% of it to be rented at below market rates do that people can have better housing; all of this will be worthless, however, if no one wants to live there due to the high crime rate in the area. We'd like to see periodic patrols by a police officer in the area"
MP: "Sorry, we don't have enough officers to guarantee periodic patrols in the area that you're requesting"
FB: "Have another officer, on us, then, so that you can periodically patrol the area"
MP: "Thanks!"
It's an absolutely horrible precedent. It is a step back more than 2,000 years. The closest thing in real history was the very first firefighters in ancient Rome - a private enterprise that made its owner one of the richest men in Rome through a simple principle: Whenever there was a fire, he'd show up with his firefighters (slaves, btw.) and offer the owner of the house to buy it on the spot and make him a tenant in his (formerly) own house. The price he offered was ridiculously low. If the owner sold, they'd put out the fire. If not, he'd let it burn to the ground.
So, will this be a personal/private cop? No, that would be too obvious. They'll all make sure it looks all clean, because it's only the first step.
But it does mean that if ever Facebook runs afoul of the law, there'll be one less cop willing to raid them...
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
Mega corporations do whatever they can to dodge taxes, and then discover that they need tax-funded public services: cops and transports. What is next? Microsoft will subsidize roads? Cisco will build a sewage? Apple will raise an army?
beat me to the explanation :)
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when all the manufacturing moved to Mexico & China. It happened almost overnight, but they still had millions of people and a large infrastructure. Naturally the tax base collapse and the schools became hopelessly underfunded while their students struggled with a level of poverty normally reserved for blasted out sections of Afghanistan.
I know it's fashionable to blame Detroit's problems on the Evil Tax And Spend Democrats (tm), but even a cursory glance at the facts proves it otherwise.
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I completely disagree with you, but I can find no grounds to argue this post.
You, sir, are off your meds. Try to make clear, coherent points without rambling. However, I will entertain your lunacy...
1. Money is debt. Okay, yes, I already believed that. What does that do for the rest of your rant and your presumptions about me?
2. You have a serious, serious fantasy going on if you believe that the USSR would have worked if it hadn't been "subverted" by bankers. Right. You realize they were basically an autarky, right? But apparently, according to you, old Stalin was just a bootlicking lackey of the *true* power: the bankers. Sure.
3. I never claimed FB is paying "fair taxes". I claimed FB wasn't volunteering to pay more than they owe. If you think they owe more, change the law and stop offering them the tax incentives they are using to reduce their liability to nigh zero. What do you think is actually happening? Do you actually believe that FB posts $n million in profit and then when they file their taxes they just don't report anything? They are taking advantage of legitimate tax deductions and credits. If you want them to pay more, stop offering things like this. It might make you sad when you find out that this means getting rid of things like employee stock plans and green energy credits, though.
4. If money is debt, and so very fundamentally flawed, why is it so important to you that FB pay more of this flawed, filthy lucre to the government?
Your turn. Try to avoid bizarre tangents about your personal theories of cognition.
It sounds normal to me.
I work at an industrial site with thousands of employees on site almost constantly. The company security staff are police officers with full powers of arrest (though I have never heard of an on site arrest and never seen them armed). The company also has its own fire department (which also serves the surrounding community). I know there is at least one more industrial location in town with it's own fire department too.
While on site, we are encouraged not to dial 911, but instead the internal emergency line. Internal responders have a response time of roughly two minutes. 911 responders can take up to 15.
There is already precedence for this and it is somewhat simple to follow. Almost every college campus has it's own cops that are stationed on campus for the sole benefit of the campus and the college pays for the costs (some campuses have their own police force with the same powers as regular cops by law). Most medical centers of decent size and emergency room/hospitals have the same. The local hospital here has 5 officers working it (covering 3 shifts) and it is actually 4 or 5 blocks from the main police department.
What happens is that they patrol primarily the area they are in charge of- be it a college campus of hospital or whatever. They go on assists when needed (even off campus), will follow a fleeing suspect off campus if necessary, and so on. If a call comes in to 9/11, unless it is an assist (meaning something that requires a large police presence or everyone else is occupied), they won't go unless the call came from their area.
Think of it like a substation or precinct but on a smaller scale. The cop is a cop city wide, but they have their territory they stay in unless needed elsewhere for some reason.
I had no clue working for Facebook was that dangerous, oh well, I'd still apply it can't be worse than 125th.
Pay your fucking taxes and accept good service in return. If the service isn't good, fix it for everybody or buy your own private cops. The need for private cops embarrasses the public cops, which it should.
Buying government cops is the merger of corporation and state--the very definition of fascism and inherently corrupt.
Not just cops. The Google "public private partnership" is corrupt too; but not quite as bad since it doesn't involve guys with guns.
So your implying that private cops would be less corrupt , or if everyone owned a cop they [person/cop] wouldn't be able to get away with corruption? In fact this gives them a free-for-all license for corruption.
Public Cops are the same, the shit they get away with without receiving the same penalties that Jane/Joe tax payer would receive, are absurd. Pigs should be held to a far higher standard, if law makers and the Feds are going to make mandatory prison sentences to curb crime or criminal activity. The standards should be set higher for people who are suppose to "protect and serve the public" and now the private sector.
The FBI sat around with there thumb up there ass while investigating the Alabama Killings, they personal tailed and watch dozens of blacks being beaten to death or damn near it, or lynched. They refuse to even get involved with any of the racial violence. Then they acted as if they were doing Justice in "equality", and they were just as racist as the public cops thru out the country. Essentially the Feds are private cops, despite the fact there Tax payer funded, the amount of corruption within Federal agencies/law enforcement never reaches the public unless it is leaked or suspected and reported by the media/press. I'm sure it is the same with public cops as well, in my area the cops are corrupted, and there is no way to know the full extent of it, the only sniff you get is when someone files a lawsuit for violation of rights, or excessive force, the local press reports the suits, but refuse to fully investigate how deep the corruption is.
In general, a citizen and only make an arrest if they witness a felony being committed. Also the same sort of idea with drawing a gun. A good way I heard it put is "If you pull a weapon on someone, one of you committed a felony so you'd better be sure ti was them."
Police have a more relaxed standard. They can arrest based on the suspicion of a crime, and can arrest for misdemeanors. Also they have wider latitude as to when they can draw a weapon.
Stuff like this is why universities have police forces. I work on a campus and we have both security (we call them police aides) and police. The security guards are cheaper, yet we have police offers too. There are good reasons, and the university has clear guidelines for who does what. The security guys more or less just lock buildings and call in problems. The police actually deal with the problems.
Corporations have been buying politicians for years. It's no surprise that now they're buying police officers as well.
Earmarks are not, inherently, bad. However, we're getting into dangerous territory when private organizations and individuals are capable of, in essence, renting state power; the officer has powers that are not achievable by citizens in any other way. We talk about the dangers of corruption in politics but the influence is never so blatant as this; I can host a campaign fundraiser for a councilman and attempt to persuade him to support my zoning proposal but I can't pay the city a half million and legally rent his services for the year.
How do we prevent Facebook from pressuring the officer, or his superiors, to abuse his power? E.g., force protestors off the sidewalk, or stop legal filming. Remember that, in addition to money, there is political credibility on the line here; if this situation goes sour, the representatives who allow it stand to have their political careers suffer.
I don't see a problem with this system at public schools (where the college cops actually count as state employees I think), but I don't really agree with it if used at a private school.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
I think they count as state employees but the school pays a fee or their costs or something. It's less then the rentacop fees you or I would have to pay if we wanted a cop to work security on the late shift or a special event or something. In my area, you can hire off duty cops to do security at just about anything as long as it is legal.
But I think it would/should depend a lot on how big the school is and if the campus is open to the public or not. If it is a walled garden, I have a problem too. But if it is a private school as in no state/federal funding and they pick and choose students but open for the public to use amenities like the library or meeting halls and so on, I don't see an issue. Well, as long as the university cops aren't enforcing school rules- which they shouldn't be doing in either case as a law is passed by legislature not some board. I don't know of any private school that is as large as a state university though. Most of them are likely smaller and more specialized I would assume.
There are a lot of unique things that happen at a school and there is a rather large population density that grows and shrinks periodically. If they didn't get their own force, the city would likely have to step up and provide it. If they are getting a lot of calls or showing up a lot, it just makes sense. And the force could be more specialized to deal with issues surrounding school life. I mean someone gets stopped and reaches in his pocket to grab a phone in order to record the stop. In the real world, so many cops might think they are going for a weapon and shoot where a cop at a school might know what they are up to.
This is just the transition from the "democratic era" (aka "one (wo-)man, one vote") to the post-democratic era (aka "one dollar, one vote").
Nothing to worry about. Pretty similar to the feudal era, a very gay and colourful one with its horses, banners, armors and witch-burning bonfires.
same thing in Oklahoma...oh, the lottery made 10 million? then that's 10 million we can cut from school budgets!
Actually, many campus police have the same jurisdiction as Highway Patrol...since the schools are state-level entities, they can chase you far beyond school property.
I'd happily pay $3,500 out of pocket for 5 lights to get safer streets in my immediate neighborhood.
But then you would have to take on any liability lawsuits privately if the poles ever fell and caused damage to vehicle/ property/ injury. And cost of their eventual safe removal.
Interesting that this is drawing so much scrutiny because it is a business. Universities - including private universities - in large cities do this all the time. I can think of three large private schools in urban areas where the "campus police" are actually PD deputies and patrol the area around the campus as city police officers as well as patrolling the campus itself. No one complains because it is a traditional "school" doing this, even though some of the large private universities are pretty big money machines.
sPh
in San Francisco, CA? The houses there cost at least $700,000. I'm sure half of the parents have chauffeurs and limousines.
Giant US company no doubt lobbying against higher taxes is dismayed at lack of local civic service so pays for cop directly? This is so totally wrong. The US has its head so far up its arse it is truly weird. Its funny that those who speak loudest in favor of capitalism act as if their real goal was to return to what came before capitalism, namely Feudalism.
Why don't you guys just get on with it and amend your constitution to "one share one vote"
The $100/hour seems about right for what utilities and others pay for a cop on private detail. The officer gets some of that in overtime, the city gets the rest as "profit" and overhead. $200k/year for a trained, licensed cop seems in the ballpark once you take into effect training, equipment, benefits, hiring and other costs. Your $75K/year PHP programmer probably costs the company $150K/year once you add in benefits, recruiting, real estate and training.
How do we prevent Facebook from pressuring the officer, or his superiors, to abuse his power? E.g., force protestors off the sidewalk, or stop legal filming. Remember that, in addition to money, there is political credibility on the line here; if this situation goes sour, the representatives who allow it stand to have their political careers suffer.
I think we have to do it using the same techniques we use to prevent those same actions by state police on Occupy Wall Street protestors and Tea Party protestors, and protestors at large financial and banking summits, and the same way we prevent people protesting politicians like Gorge Bush and Barack Obama from being relegated to so-called "Free Speech Zones".
Which is to say, we disobey the illegal orders, get arrested, and fight the legality of the actions in court. They we file civil lawsuits against the guilty parties for recompense.
I'd happily pay $3,500 out of pocket for 5 lights to get safer streets in my immediate neighborhood.
But then you would have to take on any liability lawsuits privately if the poles ever fell and caused damage to vehicle/ property/ injury. And cost of their eventual safe removal.
They already have the poles with light fixtures on them, they just don't pay to power them. The only difference here is which fixture housing the bolts go through.
Unless you are talking about insurance on injury to the workers performing the installation in place of the city workers when the city had the option of underbidding the labor contract? In that case, like the city, the company performing the installation has its own insurance, which is part of the cost of the work.
Just saying, watch out for your personal liability nowadays. In Long Island, New York, a homeowner re-filled the 5 or 6 potholes on his cul-de-sac street and got a cease and desist order from the town. Later dismissed as long as he doesn't try doing it again. He had reported the huge holes in his road to the town and got no action for months.
. . the Federal Reserve? That was supposed to be the number one public-private partnership?!?!?!
Charles Keating, master manipulator of the S&L debacle who would later be convicted and serve time in jail, once hired Alan Greenspan to give expert testimony on his behalf. Greenspan claimed that Keating's Lincoln S&L was healthy, and it would later go bankrupt. Greenspan also certified 17 S&Ls, 16 of which would go bankrupt within 4 years. (From Jeff Faux's book, The Servant Economy) Greenspan would late be appointed to head the Federal Reserve, where he would supervise the housing bubble, and later claim before congress that he and "they" were wrong, those pesky markets weren't self-regulating after all!
Mark Zuckerberg and his wife, Priscilla Chan, were the most generous American philanthropists in 2013, with a donation of 18 million shares of Facebook stock, valued at more than $970 million, to a Silicon Valley nonprofit in December.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new...
That non-profit?
Silicon Valley Community Foundation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
"Regional Planning: This includes plans related to both land use and mass transit options in the Silicon Valley area.[15][20]"
As well as being a great tax tool it appears to exert influence in required areas.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
facebook ad fraud? Is it real?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
In any case I question the motivations of Zuckerberg.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
"FaceCop! Nobody move or there will be.... trouble"
Not only is there the cost for insurance and pensions, and equipment like police cars, but also 1/N the cost of their boss, and 1/N**2 the cost of their boss's boss.
And if you look up the salaries of Palo Alto employees (which are public record), you'll find that cops in Silicon Valley get paid a lot; I think the police chief makes $300K (which probably includes benefits), but I may be mixing that up with Mountain View's police chief. And yes, these are towns where almost all the crime is white collar. I doubt Menlo Park is cheaper.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
You can look them up; I saw them in the local newspaper a few years ago. I don't remember what the grunt officers made, but the police chiefs in Palo Alto and Mountain View make about $300K (and I think even the second most expensive cops were over $200K.) And that's in a town where almost all the crime is white collar.
On the other hand, Facebook's closer to East Palo Alto, which is across the county line from Palo Alto, and is the town where the poor people were allowed to live back when there was racial segregation.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
. . . so where do all the slum, crime and ghetto folks go when the place gets gentrified . . . a couple of blocks down the road . . . ?
Well for the criminals specifically, one would hope that they would commit ritual suicide in a fit of social conscience.