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Court Denies NSA Request To Hold Phone Records Beyond 5 Years
itwbennett writes "As Slashdot readers will remember, last month the U.S. government 'petitioned the court system' to let the NSA retain phone call metadata for more than 5 years, ironically 'because it needs to preserve it as evidence for the various privacy lawsuits filed against the government.' Well, the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has ruled against that request. The FISC's Presiding Judge Reggie B. Walton ruled Friday (PDF) that the proposed amended procedures would further infringe on the privacy interests of U.S. persons whose 'telephone records were acquired in vast numbers and retained by the government for five years to aid in national security investigation.'"
they want to destroy the evidence.
oh yeah, Snowden has a message for you guys about the radar/satellite weapons and surveillance tactics that aren't getting enough public media coverage. maybe the FISA court is responsible for authorizing thousands of rapes and murders by the NSA, NRO, FBI, and DOD using directed energy weapons and various mind invasive technologies : http://www.wikileaks-forum.com...
Does that mean that since the Gov can't maintain the Evidence for the suits filed against them for privacy issues, that the people suing will get default judgments? Most likely not... another catch 22 for citizens... can't win either way.
Oh look, it's oversight! But it's against what NSA wants to do! Kill the traitors! Don't worry the government has oversight over the NSA! Traitor! Oversight! Traitorsight!
The cynic in me wants to take over this post with a they'll probably do it anyway slant, but it's been a long Monday and I try to leave that guy at work, so I'm going to go with:
Maybe, just maybe, all our bitching is not in vain and the war for the preservation of privacy is still being waged.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
we're the NSA. we know everything.
If the government destroyed it preemptively they'd be guilty of spoliation.
This way instead they get immunity to discovery and subpoenas.
Right, like that'll stop them.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Obligatory cynicism: I believe the only reason this ruling happened is the NSA found a way to technically comply with the ruling while still retaining the data. My guess is they will have a third party store it for them.
Hooray: keep the data, avoid the lawsuits, and keep raping our freedoms! A trifecta for America!
Because ultimately - the government will have the last say.
It's any governing powers wet dream to be able to know everything about its people, that way - they can know what buttons to press, what feelings to arouse, people to use and abuse - because, lets face it - if YOU...the normal guy on the streets should get some of your little secrets exposed, they have you locked in...and you would NEVER revolt, because you STILL count your little secrets and "safe" life not worth sacrificing as your only reward for sticking it to the man...would be being hung out to dry and your life destroyed.
Well, how is that different from war? War have casualties too, but there is no honor in death. If you're still alive to fix things, there is hope - and without hope, we're truly doomed.
What if you have no secrets? I asked a few people if they would have a problem with the gov. storing everything about them, what they say over the phone, what they write, what they purchase - and maybe even their little secrets at home. The answer I got from most of them, was: I don't have anything to hide, I'm so boring, let them watch, let them know.
Say, I'm going to let you in on a little secret of mine, I know a lot about people too (use your imagination here, because you won't get some long explanation on that, call it LIFE experiences if you wish). In fact, I know so much about people...that I understand the lure of power, but I've chosen not to use it at all, but alas...most people would use it in a heartbeat, why? Because I've seen that too, again and again - as I stood by and let them abuse me with the knowledge they had, it could be simple things like buying new hardware for the company to better support the workers (which is BAD if you go against the company policy), but very good for overall efficiency etc. I've seen countless people abuse power - because they want SO badly to RISE in their ranks, make their small insignificant lives a little better for them and their families, at the cost of others...not in their family.
Have you ever seen the movie a Bugs Life? Not far away from how the governing elite controls the small everyday working ant...and like it that way, because lets face it, wouldn't you if you where given that option? To never have to worry about anything...ever again? To have endless purchasing powers? To always be right - even though you're completely wrong?
The moral of the above is, if you GIVE them this kind of power, they will take it - and you will only have yourself to blame.
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
They didn't ask the courts when they technically committed acts of war against friendly nations so why do we think they'll pay any attention to their ruling now?
Oh friend! Pity me!
I have read what Cold Fjord wrote!
Butt hurt! No ointment!
Can you offer any independent confirmation of such accusations? There is a serious problem in that accusations like this tend to come from the lunatic fringe, 98% of which is almost certainly total BS, and most of the 2% which proves true seems to be lucky guesses rather than actually based on evidence (i.e. even a stopped clock is right twice a day). I think Snowden did a good job of exposing the fact that world governments are in fact up to some really evil, underhanded shit, but how is a rational actor who doesn't want to spend their life wading through total bullshit up to their eyebrows supposed to sort through the unconfirmed claims? Hell, I can point out dozens of patents for conceptual devices that can't possibly work but were granted anyway - one of the down sides to removing the working model requirement. And that video - I watched maybe 20 seconds before the glaringly obvious opportunistic mid-sentence cuts convinced me that no trustworthy information could possibly be gleaned from it. If the fellow designed mind-control devices it should be easy enough for him to build another - where's the example of him demonstrating it by making some deserving politician utterly humiliate themselves in public? Or extracting political secrets verified by digging up the definitive evidence. Hell, I'm thinking of a number between one and ten, what is it?
So my question to anyone reading, is there any place a concerned citizen can go where skeptical minds tear apart these sorts of ridiculous accusations and discover the occasional kernel of truth within them? In today's world that seems like an important task, and one that would appeal to individuals of a certain temperament.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
One thing that is clear about you Yanks, and that is how badly you understand your own systems. By definition, by purpose, and by agreement between the three independent branches of the US system of governance, intelligence operations like the NSA are above the court system.
Just as those that work with the NSA, either by choice or through coercion, may lie about every aspect of their co-operation to both citizens and politicians, without breaking any law, the charade of 'court rulings' like these is to give a known false reassurance to the electorate, and lower level politicians.
So who controls the NSA and the rest of the US intelligence operations? STAR CHAMBERS. These entities, universally found in the major nations of the West, comprise of powerful individuals from every section of society- business, church, military, law, media, and, of course, senior politicians, including the President. The 'star chambers' replace the traditional rule by 'King' and his council of 'advisers. The excuse for the existence of 'star chambers' is the need for consistency of rule, and mid to long term planning- concepts in diametric opposition to the faux democratic systems of the West that need to maintain the pretence that the people can vote into power radically different regimes with radically different agendas every 4-5 years.
Because the membership of the star chamber that oversees the NSA is fully representative of all the potentially interested elites, no powerful external action is witnessed against NSA abuses. How could there be. Anyone with the power to object to NSA crimes against the populace has already agreed to support such crimes.
The star chamber system works perfectly because if you become significant enough to object to such a thing, you will find you have already been made a participating member of the system. Organisations like 'Skull and Bones', and those that recruit younger members at elite universities, exist as GROOMING GROUNDS for the real thing, training aspirational elites abut how true power is maintained and manipulated. Everyone that 'matters' feel they already get a say on how the NSA behaves, and that 'say' has nothing to do with anything you betas ever get to hear.
A bullshit excuse by the NSA to keep their ill-gotten gains
That's a bit like telling a career criminal that he should better not do a petty crime. Like telling a murderer that it's not ok to steal a car to drive to his victim.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
From the Declaration of Independence"... But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security...."
The Hijacked US Government when they say "national security" its really their security just as the media uses terms such as "the US", Israel", Iraq" etc... when what they are really referring to is not the people but the governments hiding being the insinuation of the people.
The large majority of the people on this planet are getting fed up with the few liars, cheats and warmongers draining from them the benefits the people themselves have been generating. As anyone who has ever worked in team knows, you can in teamwork generate more benefits than the team members need. And it takes great drain and destructive force to hide this fact so to prop up those deceiving the people of this planet.
What has happened here falls in line with hiding the facts of who those deceiving are.
Maybe they should keep the metadata about the metadata they've been collecting? Meta-metadata or is that more like an infinite loop, metadata about metadata is also metadata?
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Well, there goes any citizen's chance at recrimination against the government. The NSA got it's wet dream, get out of jail free card and ordered by, none other than, the legal system itself! Maybe, this data should have been ordered to be removed from the control of the NSA and put into private hands for storage.
http://www.theverge.com/2014/3...
The restraining order was issued Monday, just days after the FISA court blocked the government's request to continue holding onto call records that were relevant to ongoing litigation. With its quick action, the California district court has put a hold on that ruling for now, allowing relevant evidence to be preserved.