VLC Finally Launches App For Windows 8

SmartAboutThings writes "After a long journey of more than one year, which included even a successfully ended Kickstarter campaign, the VLC app for Windows 8 is officially here. VLC for Windows 8 is currently in beta, and it lacks some important features, such as the ability to open music files or support for Windows RT devices. On the good side, VLC for Windows 8 supports the same codecs as the VLC application for desktop, from MPEG-1 to H.265, through WMV3 and VC-1; it also supports multiple-audio tracks selection, embedded subtitles, background audio playback, Live Tiles, removable storage and DLNA servers."

Comments

great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm really excited to take a look at this; it's been a missing tool in my windows 8 kit.

Re:great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're using Windows 8 you have a missing tool in your decision making kit.

Re:great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

YOU'RE a missing tool!

Re:great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

I know you are, but what am I?

Plus, Windows 8 sucks. The End. HA HA, NO TOUCHBACKS!

Re:great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously? As if stupid comments like this are going to make me suddenly decide that "oh, no, this incredibly stable uptime that I've had with Win8 is nothing but a sham. I really haven't had any problems with any programs and the non-crashes have been nothing but my imagination."

There's nothing wrong with Win8 for the casual and hobbyist. It runs. It runs fine. I get a 12-15 second boot time minus bios post and password entry. The OS is a good piece of work.

Re:great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sometimes, when I talk to myself, I like to pretend I'm a girl.

Re:great news.

[Darinbob]

I'm making a note here. Huge Success!

Re:great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

> There's nothing wrong with Win8 for the casual and hobbyist.
Except not having a sane UI for a desktop or laptop, right.

> It runs. It runs fine.
Yes, like every single OS out there, unless you're doing it wrong.

> I get a 12-15 second boot time minus bios post and password entry. The OS is a good piece of work.
You know you're a shill when the best thing you can say about an OS is that it boots quickly. I mean, I'm sure it's great for people like you who spend their days rebooting. For the rest of us who reboot on patch Tuesday, this represents a 10 second gain or so once a month, or 2 whole minutes per year! Just too bad the counter-productive fisher-price UI kills more than that per day...

Re:great news.

[davester666]

it doesn't crash, but it frustrates the hell out of me whenever I try to use it [I primarily use MacOSX]. maybe if I spent a bunch of time training myself to memorize where all the hidden stuff is, it might get close to the frustration level of WinXP.

Re:great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

I like to pretend I'm a girl.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Re:great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

And OSX frustrates the hell out of me when I use that. But I'm not going around telling OSX users their OS is crap. So stfu and stick to OSX please. I'll keep happily using Windows 8 thank you very much.

Re:great news.

[davester666]

I didn't say it was crap. I said it didn't crash [which most people view as a positive] and that using it frustrates me [which most people interpret as a personal opinion and not an attack on all other users].

Re:great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it isn't a good piece of work. I've had to replace more hard drives on computers running Windows 8 then I have for systems running XP, Vista and 7 combined. I have had Windows 8 run an "Automatic System Repair" at start up when the system was just shut down cleanly. I've had it boot to System Recovery mode for no reason. I've even had it lose files between reboots for no discernible reason. That's not to mention random crashes, lock ups and other odd glitches.

Windows 8 is the most fussy OS I've ever had the misfortune of supporting. I've been running a consulting business for 4 years and been doing corporate IT for over 10. In that time, I've never had the number of problems that Windows 8 has demonstrated.

Before you think that I'm sticking my customers with bad equipment, the problems I've encountered have presented on custom builds with ASUS mainboards and Intel CPUs, Dell Latitudes and Optiplexs, Acer Veritons and HP Envy towers. There's no rhyme or reason to it other than Windows 8 keeps doing stupid stuff. It's gotten to the point that I might start charging customers a Windows 8 support surcharge just because of the extra time it takes to deal with it.

Re:great news.

[GigaplexNZ]

The Fisher Price UI insult is aimed at XP, not Windows 8. And as long as you don't use any Metro apps, the Windows 8 UI works just fine for desktops and laptops. I don't stare at the start screen for hours on end just like you don't stare at the start menu for hours on end.

Re:great news.

[crowaust]

Can't be a Tool, Tools are useful :P

Re:great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

You indirectly said it was inferior to XP.

Re:great news.

[Thanosius]

Funny how Linux users and distros a few years back were hyped up about the push towards faster and faster boot times and made a habit of announcing improvements towards it. When someone makes a point of how the new Windows version is faster than the old... you call the a shill? Do you realize how pathetic you look?

Fucking Linux users, negative as always.

Re:great news.

[davester666]

yes, but you can only infer from my post that Windows 8 is crap IF you [the reader] first believe that Windows XP was crap.

Re:great news.

[ichthus]

Each and every one of your arguments in favor of Windows 8 would also be applicable to DOS. Uptime? Stability? Yes, good... welcome to the last decade of operating systems. How about usability?

Re:great news.

[bagman1673]

I'm really excited to take a look at this; it's been a missing tool in my windows 8 kit.

There's a windows 8 kit now? wtf?

Re:great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

IF you [the reader] first believe that Windows XP was crap.

It wasn't?

Re:great news.

[davester666]

Oh, yes, it totally is. I just never came out and said so in my original post, which the AC accused me of having done so.

Re:great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

Who mentioned Linux, wankstain? Fuckwit.

Re:great news.

[ILongForDarkness]

I get sub 10 s boot time. When rebooting my monitor just recognizes no signal and then flickers when it refreshes I'm on the login screen. I don't even get to see the bios anymore because the monitor doesn't detect the computer before it is coming up on the login screen.

Win 8.1 is very usable. Stability: not so much in my experience but could be the apps I'm using. Firefox and Visual Studio generally crash once a day for me at work. That said as long as it recovers well from a crash I don't really care.

Re:great news.

[slapout]

First time I tried to use Windows 8 neither me nor my boss could figure out how to shut it down. WinXP is still better than 8 IMHO.

Re:great news.

[ILongForDarkness]

I thought it was "great success". Now I go have sexy time with my sister.

Re:great news.

[hairyfeet]

I'm throwing the flag, bullshit on the field. Windows 8 works IF and ONLY IF you do everything the "Metro Way" which is so obviously designed for tablets and tweeting twits and social shits it fucking hurts.

With XP didn't want the Fisher price? Took all of 2 seconds to switch to classic and you would NEVER see it again, or you could use one of dozens of themes released the first 6 months that would make it look like anything you wanted. With Metro even if you use third party tools its damned near impossible to 100% kill that fucking Metro and if you are one of the millions that have a laptop that the generic synaptics touchpad drivers won't work on? Either buy a mouse and carry it with your laptop forever or throw the laptop in the trash because you will NEVER EVER get rid of the fucking Charms bar! And once you look down for a second and when you look up find you've been "charmed" and have lost the last 3 - 5 seconds of work thanks to Charms stealing focus and it does that over and over AND OVER throughout the day? You'll find out why so many have a seething hatred for that fucking OS.

What all those Win 8 lovers is simply gonna have to face is THE ENTIRE PREMISE IS STUPID and I can prove this, ready? Where does Windows 8 work best? Tablets and touchscreens, don't take my word for it, just count how many times Sinofsky said touch during the win 8 reveal, it was like 30 times in a 10 minute presentation. Fine but why do people buy Windows? What makes you pick Windows over say Android or iOS? Windows programs which aren't touch enabled and which make no fucking sense and are painful on a fucking tablet!....Argh!

Re: great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

I like it on a laptop. I went in kicking and screaming but it really is the best os out there. It is sold as a rock, boots fast and launches applications fast.

Due to the ui I have gotten back into keyboard shortcuts and am now faster in this than I ever was on 7. We even have the start button back and I don't like it because it is so much slower.

Re:great news.

[TangoMargarine]

Well, for one thing the Windows "fast startup" doesn't involve **actually shutting it down** (it's a "hybrid hibernate" sort of thing that involves a hibernation file, then restoring when you "start up"). I have a harder time believing that the Linux guys have been lying to us about startup.

Re:great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's say it together now...

The plural of anecdote is not data.

Re:great news.

[Optali]

Steve?
Mate, the fact taht you are retired doesn't mean that you have to start trolling the internet,
What about your new year resolution of starting a workout plan and loose some pounds?

Get your butt off the couch and start moving!!!

Re:great news.

[dead_cthulhu]

He's saying the interface is crap, not the OS. And I'm inclined to agree. I didn't even have time to test all the improvements under the hood that many people here have mentioned when I installed Win8 in a VM, because I wiped that image within 15 min after dealing with that shit interface. Hell, Unity is better than the Win 8 UI.

Re:great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, hybrid hibernation is when the contents of RAM is written to disk and the system is put into S3 sleep mode, which also preserves the actual contents of RAM. It is intended for non-UPS backed up desktop PCs so that they can be quickly woken, but in the event of a power failure you still won't lose your session.

And just FYI, Windows 8.1 Pro cold boots in about 8 seconds on my laptop, coming out of hibernation takes about 5 seconds and waking from sleep is instant.

Re:great news.

[Anonymous Coward]

Before you think that I'm sticking my customers with bad equipment, the problems I've encountered have presented on custom builds with ASUS mainboards and Intel CPUs, Dell Latitudes and Optiplexs, Acer Veritons and HP Envy towers.

Sorry to tell you this, but all of those aside from the Latitudes are crap. You probably just got some bad drives because I haven't had any of those problems. Windows 8 does take a little molding (ie. install Classic Shell, Ribbon Disabler, OldNewExplorer and 8Gadgets), but I have set up multiple Windows 8 systems this way without any problems.

Re:great news.

[TangoMargarine]

POST alone takes like 30 seconds. How can you possibly be doing a cold boot if you're skipping that?

And just FYI, Windows 8.1 Pro cold boots in about 8 seconds on my laptop, coming out of hibernation takes about 5 seconds and waking from sleep is instant.

I'll believe this voodoo incantation when I actually see it. Do you have an SSD?

Re:great news.

[TangoMargarine]

Hmmm...I suppose with UEFI, POST could be different now, but I'm curious what they would do to reduce the time from 30 seconds to basically 0 even if that is the case.

Apps

[Tmackiller]

Does anyone NOT using a touchscreen device use apps on windows 8? I've been running VLC for Windows since I got Win8, just after it came out and had no problems with it as a traditional program, in fact it's the only media player I use for video. Isn't this a waste of developer's time? Why won't microsoft give up on apps and tiles? 8 isn't THAT bad without them...

Re:Apps

[SuricouRaven]

Because apps and tiles are a vital part of their strategy. They are putting out these features everyone hates right now,because doing so establishes them as something in Microsoft's long-term interest. They've seen how profitable an app store can be, and how it can be used to promote other services like media sales. They want in on that game, and a consistant cross-platform interface may be a vital advantage in their desperate but unsuccessful struggle to become a serious player in the mobile space.

Re:Apps

[Anonymous Coward]

Metro+WirelessKeyboard+WiiMote = great experience on a TV

Re:Apps

[Tmackiller]

They may want to take a market share in mobile devices, but do you see MacOSX putting Tiles and Apps on their desktop devices? No. Marketing Department sshould be fired.

Re:Apps

[vux984]

Does anyone NOT using a touchscreen device use apps on windows 8?

Yes. It is pretty good on a home theatre PC. The start screen is infinitely better from the couch then the old start menu, and the apps (like netflix, and the video player are easier to operate as well - both to see the controls, and to operate)

I've been looking forward to VLC for a while. As the included video player app displays ads in some circumstances and I find it offensive.

I'd also really like a good free open source file browser app.

Overall, I agree there's few apps I'd want on a desktop laptop, but media playback / management for photos, video, music, etc... apps tend to work very well. Basically for situations where you generally want to single task full screen something anyway, the apps are great.

Re:Apps

[MightyMartian]

No one said Microsoft actually knew how to gain market share. The old tools of threatening OEMs with a fate worse than death don't work any more, so Redmond is a bit of a fish out of water.

Re:Apps

[luther349]

yea i just serviced a windows 8 box that was infected. i go to the control panel wtf no real settings. i go to metro can find a setting tiles or even a app tile there hidden in the next window but ok. i finely figure out i had to hover the left side to get the settings

Re:Apps

[Bozzio]

Finely, a reasonable criticism of Windows 8.

Re:Apps

[Darinbob]

You're telling the truth with all seriousness and yet you are modded as Funny...

Re:Apps

[Kalriath]

Because the whole point of writing VLC for Windows 8 was so they could port libvlc to Windows 8, which means that it can potentially run on Windows Phone and Windows RT without modification. They haven't done a phone app yet, but this release can run on Windows RT as well.

Also, it's open source. So others can leverage the work they did for media playback on Windows Store apps.

Re:Apps

[Kalriath]

A file browser likely can't be done, since apps are sandboxed.

Re:Apps

[Tmackiller]

Get an internet TV, and a network harddrive, samsung does a great one - it has a file browser. Using an entire computer for a media centre is sacrilege, if you love the tiles and apps so much, get an xbox and use that, XboxOne's kinect voice controls actually work quite well. The point I was trying to make was that metro is ergonomically retarded for a desktop or laptop. Fuck your metro Fanboyishness (sp), you're making excuses by saying it's good at something it was never made to do, but agreeing with the fact that it's awful at what it is supposed to do.

Re:Apps

[Anonymous Coward]

Control Panel in Windows 8 looks exactly the same as Control Panel in Windows 7.

If you can't figure out how to use the Control Panel in Windows, you're simply not qualified to service computers.

Re:Apps

[Mashiki]

but do you see MacOSX putting Tiles and Apps on their desktop devices?

That's because the marketing dept., hasn't figured out how to spin it as the next new hot thing. Like round corners.

Re:Apps

[vux984]

Get an internet TV

Yuck. Do not want. I do have one, but i refuse to connect it to the network.

Using an entire computer for a media centre is sacrileg

Did I say that's all I do with it? It acts as a fileserver for the house, and has steam on it, (big picture mode also works pretty well from the couch)

if you love the tiles and apps so much, get an xbox and use that,

What microsofts pay-to-use-internet ad-ridden version of not-really-windows? No thanks. I don't have or want an xbox.

XboxOne's kinect voice controls actually work quite well.

No thanks.

The point I was trying to make was that metro is ergonomically retarded for a desktop or laptop.

Its fine for single tasking full screen apps - even on a desktop or laptop, but I agree that's a distinct minority of what *I* do with either of those, while its nearly all I do with the HTPC.

Fuck your metro Fanboyishness (sp),

Get real. I'm not Metro fanboi. I like it for what its good at.

you're making excuses by saying it's good at something it was never made to do,

No, I'm just saying it IS actually quite good at something that quite a few people do, even if that wasn't really what it was designed for. Its also decent as a phone OS. I certainly don't see it taking over the desktop, but being -able- to run it there isn't a bad thing.

but agreeing with the fact that it's awful at what it is supposed to do.

I'm honestly not sure what Microsoft thought it was supposed to do on the desktop. Did they really expect to see accountants running their accounting program, email, and excel sheets as full screen apps and swiping between them? Surely they aren't that dense... they could have just looked over an accountants shoulder...after all.

Re:Apps

[Anonymous Coward]

They have a shockingly good weather app, but aside from that, I don't use any of their apps.

Usually, if a program has a Windows 8 app, they have removed under the hood features that I need. Skype is a prime example. Fuck the app version of Skype, I need to be able to manage my logins.

Re:Apps

[dbIII]

The old tools of threatening OEMs with a fate worse than death don't work any more,

It looks very much like that's what happened to ASUS yet again recently. Their "transformer" tablets now run that Win8 shit despite them (anecdotally) selling more slowly with that than the android ones did.

Re:Apps

[SeaFox]

yea i just serviced a windows 8 box that was infected. i go to the control panel wtf no real settings. i go to metro can find a setting tiles or even a app tile there hidden in the next window but ok. i finely figure out i had to hover the left side to get the settings

Why are you servicing Windows 8 computers when you clearly know nothing about them?

Re:Apps

[Anonymous Coward]

People pay well for confident incompetence.

Re:Apps

[Barlo_Mung_42]

Games mostly but the news reader is good too. Games are obvious because they should be full screen anyway. The metro mail app is also good. And I often have the twitter app snapped to one side while in desktop mode. And same goes for hulu.
So yeah, people do.

Re:Apps

[shutdown -p now]

Transformers are actually exactly the device category where Win8 makes sense - the original concept was severely hampered by the limitations of Android itself, and apps for it, running on a device with full-fledged keyboard and mouse/trackpad, whereas Win8 is designed for that as much as a touchscreen.

Re:Apps

[shutdown -p now]

Too bad that this one is actually made up (since control panel didn't change in any significant way since Win7).

Re:Apps

[SuricouRaven]

That method still works. That's how they managed to get Secure Boot widely deployed practically overnight. They just had to decree that only computers with SB capability enabled may be sold with the cheap OEM edition of Windows, and OEMs start falling over each other in their rush to meet the demand.

Re:Apps

[luther349]

wrong. to access the system restore/factory reset i had to do it from metro in the hidden right bar i did goof and said left.

Re:Apps

[luther349]

no the setting i needed was in the metro setting not in the control panel where it should be. yes win8 is not a os i use or have installed on anything.

Re:Apps

[luther349]

because that what the client had. fuck that os sucks but i got it figured out and fixed up.

Re:Apps

[luther349]

the windows 8 ui is incompetence. i got that box cleaned up and running fine again but it seems if i bitch about the ui i somehow fail at fixing the machine.

Re:Apps

[luther349]

yea seems the other just wanna troll i didn't like the ui.

Re:Apps

[shutdown -p now]

That's because it's a new option that was not available in Win7.

Re:Apps

[luther349]

bs any factory installed pc its either a hot key at the bios or a app all the way back to xp. windows 8 bury's these settings witch was annoying as hell being the thing was loaded with mailware locking up and being otherwise unstable. 8.1 did unhide these setting a bit with the shift key and power down button but this box was not updated. the os is garbage and if your hear even attempting to argue it you don't run it or just really fail at computers.

Re:Apps

[bemymonkey]

While I agree with you in theory, this is not the case - mainly because Win8 "apps" suck. The only really usable app is (ironically) Internet Explorer... for non-work stuff (I use my Win8 tablet for things like note-taking with the digitizer and OneNote), I'd take Android any day. The apps are just better through and through :(

Re:Apps

[Anonymous Coward]

> the os is garbage and if your hear even attempting to argue it you don't run it or just really fail at computers.

Your impeccable diction and precision argument has convinced me and I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. Or I will do so once you learn to think in something more articulate than crayon.

Re:Apps

[Anonymous Coward]

My take as well; I've been using VLC on Windows 8 ever since 8 was released......of course, since I don't have a touch screen, all I use is the desktop.

It does seem a waste to develop anything JUST for that tile screen.

Re:Apps

[CastrTroy]

This release cannot run on Windows RT, it says so right in the summary, and on the Windows App store, it says it only supports x86 and x86-64. Having it work on RT would require their codecs to work on ARM processors. Since they do have a version for Android, this probably shouldn't be too difficult, but the current release does not run on RT.

Re:Apps

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone NOT using a touchscreen device use apps on windows 8?

Why won't microsoft give up on apps and tiles?

Because there are a crap-ton of touchscreen devices out there now, in case you hadn't noticed.

I just bought one yesterday: an Asus T100. It's for my mom. She needs a new machine to replace the dying custom-built beast she's been using, and a non-RT Windows touchscreen "detachable" is just the thing. It's a laptop when she needs a laptop or desktop, and it's a tablet when she needs a tablet.

And a Windows 8 "metro"-aware VLC is a good thing. Yes, the desktop one works, and it works just as well as it always has. But having to drop to desktop mode when using the device as a tablet is an exercise in frustration for a myriad of reasons. Just one example: the on-screen keyboard doesn't pop-up automatically in desktop mode at all, whereas the "metro" mode one pops up when a textbox gets focus, then hides if you use the keyboard. To get it to show up in desktop apps, you have to press the tiny system tray icon for it. This makes using desktop-mode apps difficult when the keyboard is not attached, and makes a valid case for having "metro" apps available in parallel to their (usually more feature-packed) desktop versions.

Re:Apps

[Anonymous Coward]

same here, installed 'regular' vlc on win8 a long while back (hate, Hate, HATE win8!!!) and works okay AFAIK...

did i mention i hate, Hate, HATE win8 ? ? ? i curse that pencil-necked geeks name EVERY time i 'sign in'...
fuckers...
if anyone knows how to run Revit under Linux (without severe nerd contortions), I'm getting out from under the windoze behemoth ASAP...
*sigh* guess i'm stuck for now...

Re:Apps

[doconnor]

No tiles, yet, but the Mac App Store was introduced a few years ago.

Re:Apps

[MightyMartian]

It might work for PCs, but as we can see, the whole thing has failed for RT. The market share is so infinitesimal that even giving it away with methods to say, install it on Nexus 7, probably are doomed to failure.

Re:Apps

[MobyDisk]

I honestly tried. I even got an old touch screen as a second monitor so I could try to use the start menu on it. I always try to drink the latest cool-aid. But the OS was unusable, so over the course of a few weeks I changed it to boot to desktop, and re-associated all file extensions to the desktop apps, one by one. Ultimately, the problem is the Metro apps simply don't have the features that the desktop apps have.

Re:Apps

[TangoMargarine]

Y'know, like those desktop sidebar widgets in Vista...oh wait, they killed those. I mean, like the new pseudo-Awesomebar hover functionality in 7 (I've forgotten what the hell marketing term they gave to it)...oh wait, they killed that, too (or at least superceded it from the sounds of things).

But I'm sure Windows 8 apps are going to stick around! It'll be different this time, we swear!

Re:Apps

[TangoMargarine]

yea i just serviced a windows 8 box that was infected.

I really hope you used a condom...

Re:Apps

[ConceptJunkie]

Every once in a while I get the urge to try out one of the Metro apps, but I usually get too annoyed and go back to the desktop before it finishes launching. I haven't heard this complaint much, but in my experience the Metro apps are hideously slow to launch, even taking 10s of seconds.

My machine is reasonably fast (Intel i7 with 8GB of RAM) and it's very responsive when using "real" applications.

Re:Apps

[Anonymous Coward]

No, using an entire computer for a media centre is exactly the sort of thing computers are made to do. You can sit on your dinky Xbone playing inferior versions of the games I play on PC and also miss out on the tons of stuff that are PC only.

Re:Apps

[dbIII]

Certainly, but it has nothing to do with what I wrote above does it? They were selling quite well before they pulled the android transformers and released the win8 ones. My point was about the pressure most likely exerted to remove a successful product from the market and not about whether the new, less successful one is technically better or not (it may be but it's not selling as well at the moment).
The eeePC backflip was overt and happened over the period of a lunchtime meeting with MS execs at a trade show (complete with a humbling public apology to MS from the CEO of ASUS) - this more recent one is less obvious but still looks like a sign of pressure.

Re:Apps

[Kalriath]

Ah, well. I didn't read the app summary, just the kickstarter update. Oops and oh well. Still, the goal is to have it work on RT as well (at least that's how they sold it to us in the kickstarter campaign).

I wish they chose a different name

[s.petry]

Shows my age, but every time I see this acronym I see "VCL". and not VLC.

Re:I wish they chose a different name

[Kalriath]

I tend to think Visual Component Library.

No V-Sync

[aybiss]

Just like the Windows 7/Vista version, VLC will again prove itself the most useless media player available by still not having V-Sync.

Re:No V-Sync

[ichthus]

And yet, somehow, it still works great for millions of users.

Re:No V-Sync

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize that that vast majority of movies and TV are filmed at a whopping 24 fps, right?

Adding vsync would be a waste of time for 99% of real-world use cases.

Re:No V-Sync

[Zedrick]

What's V-Sync and how is VLC useless if everything I play in it looks great?

Re:No V-Sync

[uCallHimDrJ0NES]

You mean you see tearing when you watch video files? Like the way bad in-game movie playback does?

Re:No V-Sync

[jedidiah]

Nope. Can't say that I've ever encountered this on VLC on any platform.

Re:No V-Sync

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because you're playing 24fps video on a 60Hz monitor. If all your videos were - say - 150fps, then you'd get tearing and have a reason to complain about lack of vsync.

Re:No V-Sync

[GigaplexNZ]

I get quite a bit of tearing with VLC on my Win 7 HTPC.

Re:No V-Sync

[GigaplexNZ]

Tearing can happen when the frame rate is lower than the screen refresh rate. All it means is that the frame is updated mid screen refresh. Triple buffering can resolve tearing for frame rates lower than the monitor refresh rate at the cost of input lag.

Re:No V-Sync

[shutdown -p now]

The point of vsync is to prevent tearing because rendering framerate does not match the monitor refresh rate. It doesn't matter how slow or fast something goes, it's the disparity that gives tearing, and makes vsync useful.

Re:No V-Sync

[jones_supa]

Even if you went down to 1 fps, you could get tearing.

All you need is a situation where the GPU is sending the current frame to the monitor, but at the same time the framebuffer gets updated with new content from the video player application.

But the monitor always keeps a little break after drawing each frame. In other words, it waits a small time. When vsync is enabled, the framebuffer is quickly updated during this small break.

Often there is also doublebuffering (or even triplebuffering), which means that the app has plenty of time to draw to the another buffer without interfering with the monitor image. When vsync occurs, the buffers can just be swapped.

Re:No V-Sync

[TangoMargarine]

Unfortunately playing Flash videos in VLC on stock Ubuntu installs still suffers from this from time to time. I should know; it happens to me.

Costs money

[Neo-Rio-101]

So let me get this straight.

On my Windows 8.1 desktop, I can get VLC for free
In the world of Metro, I can get the same app for $3.99
Same device and everything.

I understand the need to recoup some funds for developing this, but..... why bother when the desktop version is free?
What does the metro version really get you?
Do RT users really matter?

Re:Costs money

[QuasiSteve]

I understand the need to recoup some funds for developing this, but..

To add to your but, I give you:

But...
https://www.kickstarter.com/pr...

why bother when the desktop version is free?
What does the metro version really get you?

I asked that question elsewhere, and the response I got was - after I explicitly said people shouldn't start talking about 'touch interface', considering you can slap a touch interface on a desktop app just fine and you would never be able to tell - 'touch interface'.

Aside from that, though.. Windows RT devices - since you can only install out of the app store on those, and that means you have to develop for that.

Do RT users really matter?

Maybe. Apparently there are some people enthusiastic about the Surface that wouldn't consider just getting a Surface Pro. Of course, an RT version is exactly what hasn't happened. Maybe developing the app for x86 first is easier and then porting to RT should be a breeze - I don't know. But there's certainly no good reason whatsoever to be using the Metro ('modern', whatever they want to call it) version of VLC on a desktop/laptop, with or without a touchscreen, especially when you keep in mind that this version is quite buggy and incomplete.

Re:Costs money

[ichthus]

Do RT users really matter?

I'm sure both of them would say, "Yes!"

Re:Costs money

[vux984]

In the world of Metro, I can get the same app for $3.99

http://apps.microsoft.com/wind...

Says its free? Is there a plan to charge 3.99 at some point? I'm confused.

Re:Costs money

[Neo-Rio-101]

Funny. I'm getting "Buy" or "Try" from the Windows store for $3.49

Could be that I'm in Australia, and not only do we get ripped off on all technology products... but free apps as well!

Re:Costs money

[Anonymous Coward]

From what I've been reading, RT is unlikely to be offered for very long. It's been rather unsuccessful.

Re:Costs money

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you sure it's not the VCL another poster mentioned above that you are actually seeing? :)

Re:Costs money

[cbhacking]

Porting to RT (ARM) is ongoing. The problem is that GCC doesn't know how to target Win32-THUMB2, and VLC doesn't compile under MSVC yet. They're looking at solving both of those problems, and will go with whichever one bears fruit sooner.

Personally, I hope for the former. GCC being able to target RT would allow us (the users of jailbroken RT devices, which are basically low-power Windows laptop/tablet things with great battery life but you have to re-compile native apps) to port a bunch more open-source software. An awful lot of OSS only builds under GCC and its ilk, so while porting to RT is nominally very easy (in Visual Studio, it's mostly a matter of changing a drop-down in Platform Configuration), many of the apps we have source code to can't be ported without a lot of work.

It's worth noting that .NET apps don't need to be modified at all in most cases (even if they use P/Invoke, it works fine), and we have runtimes for Python, Java, Perl, Ruby, and more. It's just the native code that's a pain. Dynamic recompilation to x86 sort of works - there's even a tool that does it transparently when you try to run an x86 EXE - but it's slow as hell on ARM.

Oh, and one other reason to port it to RT: Once you've ported to WinRT (the API set used for Store/"Metro" apps) and to THUMB-2 (the instruction set Microsoft uses on ARM processors), you can port to WP8 as well. *That* would be a real boon; there are probably a lot more WP8 devices than Windows RT devices, and having VLC on them would be great.

Re:Costs money

[Arker]

There's simply no reason to use Metro, period.

The fact that someone actually went through the trouble to to produce this monstrosity is mind-boggling. But I guess it's their time and money so it's their decision.

Re:Costs money

[Darinbob]

Even if it were free, you'd still be required to get a Microsoft ID to download the free app.
I used to bitch about this, but now suddenly this is the case in OS X Mavericks also (the "optional" apple id is required to get the free xcode command line tools), so evil is everywhere. Up next I predict a Linux ID ("totally free, trust us, I don't know why you paranoid people aren't signing up with your personal information!").

Re:Costs money

[Neo-Rio-101]

STOP THE PRESSES.

I was looking at some scam app in the Windows Store on my Windows 8.1 machine.
It's getting preference over the real VLC and they're using the same VLC icon.

*SIGH*

Re:Costs money

[Darinbob]

Odd. It says "for the WinRT platform" but also says supported processors are "x86, x64".

Re:Costs money

[ljw1004]

??? VLC on win8 is free! At least, it was free when I downloaded it an hour ago.

There were a load of FALSE vlc apps on the store for $3.49 and $3.99, with similar branding, trying to scam money. Did you get suckered by one of these?

Re:Costs money

[cbhacking]

"WinRT" != "Windows RT". This is even discussed in the linked article (yeah, yeah).

Microsoft's branding people should be lined up along a wall, beaten with baseball bats, shot, and then pitched out a fifth-story window onto rusted spikes. OK, maybe that's excessive. There's no need to waste the bullets.

WinRT is an API set, intended for use with "Windows Store apps" (a.k.a. "Metro" or "Modern" apps). It is intended to be sandbox-friendly (for example, having functions to let the user pick a file via a trusted, out-of-process component), battery-friendly (apps are notified when no longer in the foreground, and by default suspend themselves), touch-friendly (you can do the UI in a number of ways, but the standard ways use the "Metro" paradigm with big, swipe-able screens), and responsive (the default behavior is for anything which is likely to block for a while - such as accessing network resources - to be moved of the UI thread). WinRT is usable on x86, x64, and ARM. You can code for it in C++, .NET, or JavaScript.

Windows RT is an operating system, an edition of Windows 8 (or now of Windows 8.1) compiled for ARM processors. Aside from the target architecture and a feature set somewhere between the normal and Pro x86 editions (it includes some stuff like BitLocker that the normal edition didn't have at least in 8.0, but is otherwise not very Pro-ish), and the removal of a bunch of legacy compatibility stuff, it's very much a straightforward port. The main difference from a user's perspective is that in RT, Windows enforces signature validation on all binaries loaded outside of an app sandbox, preventing third-party "desktop" programs from running. RT 8.0 was "jailbroken" to remove this restriction; it's just a kernel-mode flag that if changed, reverts the OS to basically just another Win8 platform. Windows RT can run Windows Store apps just fine, so long as they're written in an architecture-independent language (JS, or anything on the .NET framework) or are compiled for the THUMB-2 instruction set that Microsoft uses on ARM.

VLC is being ported to Windows RT as we speak. The port to the WinRT platform means they just need to re-compile it for RT (ARM). Unfortunately, while this should be simple, VLC doesn't currently compile under MSVC and GCC doesn't know how to target Windows RT. The VLC team is tackling both of these problems; fixing either one will let them proceed with the port. (Personally, I hope they fix the latter one; there's a lot of open-source software we could port to jailbroken RT except that it only compiles under GCC and GCC doesn't know how to target Win32/THUMB-2 yet.)

Re:Costs money

[Neo-Rio-101]

I didn't buy them, but they were the first things that appeared when you do a search for vlc on the Windows Store.

We could discuss the amount of crap on the windows store that Microsoft lets on there, but....

Re:Costs money

[gman003]

Wait, when did Windows RT's marketshare double?

Re:Costs money

[Bozzio]

... or we could discuss how you got tricked by an obvious scam.

Re:Costs money

[Neo-Rio-101]

...or rather how Windows Store gave the greenlight to a scam app, and put it first on the list of apps above the real one.

Re:Costs money

[phantomfive]

...or rather how Windows Store gave the greenlight to a scam app, and put it first on the list of apps above the real one.

Which is truly a serious problem.

Re:Costs money

[WD]

Right. Because the primary concern at Microsoft is that people get the legitimate software that they're looking for: http://i.imgur.com/ydSDGNR.png

Depending on your monitor brightness/contrast and your attention to detail, well, you get the picture...

Re:Costs money

[fafaforza]

Do RT users matter? Everything is going to mobile and tablets, so yea, it does matter if you're in the business/hobby of making apps for people to use.

I have an iPad, would swap it for a Windows tablet without a second thought. But I would like the assurance that I could play any format I wanted to, which I'd get from VLC. Historically, appliances and tablets (PS, Xbox, iPad, iPod) will either limit your format options, or not stay up to date on new ones. So having VLC there is great, I think.

Maybe this is the year..

[Anonymous Coward]

That Windows 8 will be ready for the desktop...

Everything is now called an

[Anonymous Coward]

App

Re:Everything is now called an

[jones_supa]

It has never bothered me that much. Even for a long time before this mobile craze, people often called desktop applications "apps". Just a shorthand for "application".

Re:MY TESTMONY

[vivek7006]

Wow! This is taking trolling to a whole new level. I salute you!

Only useful for tablets

[Thanosius]

The purpose of this app is to provide capable media playback on Metro-focused devices - specifically, tablets. Except for the Microsoft fanboys on Neowin.net, most people who want to use VLC on a desktop/laptop will continue doing so with the main VLC program, particularly since it's free compared to the Metro version. It's also interesting that the RT version is non-existent, considering Windows RT is tablet exclusive and if you'd want a Metro-built media player for anything, it'd be Windows RT. One more nail in the coffin I suppose.

Re:Only useful for tablets

[cbhacking]

The "Metro" version is also free. The non-free apps are scams.

Re:Only useful for tablets

[Thanosius]

Huh, you're right, I just checked. I could have sworn I read how it cost (or would cost, once out of beta) a couple of bucks, but it's possible that was misreported somewhere or my mind got scrambled. I apologize for that.

Re:Only useful for tablets

[fafaforza]

I think the Windows tablets and phones will get a good share of users, so it makes sense to release this. I have an iPad Retina and would take a Win tablet over it no hesitation, mainly for the ability to split the screen, an SD slot with no dongles, and a USB port. So much more extensible than the iPad.

Re:MY TESTMONY

[Neo-Rio-101]

It's the scam app that costs money, and it's getting preference in the Windows store above the real VLC. Ripping off the same witches-hat icon and everything.

Maybe you can mod my original post down?

BUT WHY???

[Anonymous Coward]

No one uses Windows 8, right?!!

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/31.1.0.0 Safari/537.36

Huh. I guess I do.

Re:BUT WHY???

[jones_supa]

Those modern user agent strings always give me a belly laugh.

Which alternative were you thinking of?

[tepples]

So what tool are the majority of people missing? The only alternatives I can see to buying a laptop that ships with Windows 8.1 are A. a Mac, B. obscure Linux laptop manufacturers like System76, C. using an oversized smartphone with a Bluetooth keyboard, or D. being stuck at a desk. Which were you thinking of?

Re:Which alternative were you thinking of?

[Anonymous Coward]

ohhh, I don't know, how about.... Windows 7? Metro can go suck a donkey wang. If I wanted to use a cell phone interface I'd pull out the computer that's in my freakin pocket.

Re:Which alternative were you thinking of?

[tepples]

The other AC said "If you're using Windows 8". Classic Shell makes Windows 8.1 look enough like Windows 7 that you forget it even has "a cell phone interface".

Re:Which alternative were you thinking of?

[dbIII]

Alternative? Putting Win7 (or linux) on decent hardware and pissing off the navigation by hidden easter egg shit that currently infests it.
Also Lenovo sell laptops with Win7 as the default choice pre-installed. Is that mainstream enough?

Re:Which alternative were you thinking of?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well - the rectangled ugly non-aero window borders are an dead give-away...

On top of that.. Why you have to use a 3th party application just to get an somewhat-windows7-like experience?
I only have one opinion about windows 8.. It is just ugly as hell...

If I have to work in an desktop environment I just want to see things that are pleasing the eye. I just hate the blocky tile-like environment, and feel a real relief when I go back to Windows 7. Why they had to "uglyfy" the windows environment just to do something new is something I do not seem to grasp. I can only hope they will go back to "normal" with Windows 9, because I absolutely certain will never ever install Windows 8 on my system.

And yes - tha's very subjective, but I just want to work in an environment that I consider pleasant. I do not want something someone else tells me I have to use - if I like it or not.

Re:Which alternative were you thinking of?

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? Because it doesn't on Windows 8. Even though it adds the start menu back, the phone interface keeps popping up.

Re:Which alternative were you thinking of?

[ILongForDarkness]

It is part of the UI design concept: essentially they wanted to break away from trying to mimic the real world (see iBooks for example): which to an extent I agree with, adding a 1 s delay to try to pretend like you aren't on a computer is silly. But window boarder effects: I agree making them pretty doesn't hurt. They could have at least left a "Aero" mode in even if it wasn't the default.

Re:Which alternative were you thinking of?

[Anonymous Coward]

the rectangled ugly non-aero window borders are an dead give-away

Not really. I run Visual Studio 2012 on my Windows 7 box, and it has those same "rectangled ugly non-aero window borders". Windows 8 has almost nothing to do with the new UI theme. It's a theme, plain and simple. And when you write apps using WPF, you can theme your app any way you see fit, and even override the standard system theme. And it's easy. And it's been that way for decades. Or did you think there was some special trickery going on when those idiots writing CD burner software in the late 1990's had oval windows and shitty animated window layouts?

The funny part is that just a few years back, during the Vista years, you were probably bitching about how ugly Aero was. And before that, the (still-fugly) Fisher-Price UI in XP. And before that, the Windows 9x style. And before that, the Windows GUI itself. A DOS command line is all anyone really needs, right? (It hurts to even say that as a joke.)

You're anti-change. That's the only possible explanation for not liking the plain old desktop apps wrapped in a new UI, since the new UI is just window-dressing (literally) on the same old Windows UI. Hate for Metro/modern and the desktop-unfriendly start menu is understandable, but hate for the flat UI theme is just asinine.

Re:Which alternative were you thinking of?

[tepples]

I do remember having to change some of the Open With associations that default to apps that use the phone interface, but that's about it. When does it "keep[] popping up" for you?

Re:Which alternative were you thinking of?

[tepples]

Alternative? Putting Win7 (or linux) on decent hardware [...] Lenovo sell laptops with Win7 as the default choice pre-installed.

That's nice to know. But what major brand sells affordable X11/Linux laptops?

Re:Which alternative were you thinking of?

[Bacon Bits]

I just want interface hints. I don't use Windows 8 at work yet, but we do have Office 2013. I still have moments where I go "Hey, I can click on this!". I understand they were trying to de-clutter the interface because rows of buttons add a lot of visual garbage, but when your users can't tell the difference between your labels and your buttons something is wrong.

The advantage of a GUI is that it can communicate information visually, without needing to experiment with the mouse or keyboard. Oh, this is grayed out. I can't do that right now. This window has a little angled ridge in the lower right corner. I bet I can do something with that. I know what scroll bars do, I know what a red X button in the corner means, I know what OK and Cancel mean. Don't take that convention away all at once. There's a very subtle difference between removing decorations from the ribbon interface that we already recognize as a toolbar/menu (and has definitely matured to be a superior interface) and removing decorations to things that may or may not be interactive.

I've watched people get frustrated with the Windows 8 interface because there were no visual clues about where the interface was to do things. The charms menu is hidden, and prior to 8.1, so was the Start button. Honestly, it's like publishing a website and changing your anchor tags to have the same visual style as standard text. If all the text is regular black on white and my only clue to a link is when the mouse pointer changes, well, I'm not going to follow any of those links just because I can't find them. People get stuck in the Start menu, or can't find printers, or can't find the control panel, or can't figure out how to shut the system down. They moved things, created new conventions of giving screen corners meaning, and then eliminated all hints.

Re:Which alternative were you thinking of?

[ILongForDarkness]

I agree with the hints bit. Not as good as some shading or whatever before you try to interact with a control but even if they just did some effect when you moused over things you can click on it would have been nice. It is completely touch on a small screen centric in the OS though. You can't (easily) "hover" with a finger. Your screen is small and/or low res so you can't waste space with silly things like controls: they need to fly in only when necessary. Etc. Yet another reason why there should have been a desktop (mouse and keyboard) vs tablet interface. They could have been similar perhaps the difference would just have been whether or not the Apps menu or charms are visible by default would have gone a long way to make desktop users more comfortable. Similar to the taskbar once they were comfortable and knew where things are they could have enabled autohide.

Re:Which alternative were you thinking of?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dell does.

Try doing what I did: go to ebay.com, and sort through the multitudes of Latitude D830s for sale (or any other model of your choosing) for $20-$100, until you find the one with the specs you like. In my case it cost me $70 for a good condition laptop with 2.2ghz Core2Duo, 2 GB ram, DVD burner, WUXGA (1920x1200) display, and NVIDIA Quadro 140M graphics. To this I added an Atheros wireless card ($15), new-to-me genuine Dell battery (9 cell, 70% capacity, $20), 130W charger ($20), plus an already bought Samsung SSD and 4 GB ram from a previous laptop. Then I installed Linux Mint. Now I have a super cheap, nice, fast Linux laptop that will do just about anything I need.

Re:Which alternative were you thinking of?

[Anonymous Coward]

Aero is not Glass. Aero is the compositing engine, which Windows 8 still uses. Glass just looks tacky and unprofessional, which is why Windows 8 has a very clean, minimal design. You can still apply UXTheme Patcher and install or create your own skins if you don't like the default.

Re:Which alternative were you thinking of?

[tepples]

What kind of hardware warranty can I get on such a used laptop? I'd like to have something I know I can use for at least two years. My current laptop developed a problem with the power jack in its second year, and I'm glad I bought the extended service plan from Dell.

What driver?

[tepples]

I'm interested. What driver do you need to install to use a Wii Remote with a Windows 8.1 PC?

Re:What driver?

[Anonymous Coward]

Install a Bluetooth adapter to your PC. Then use BlueSoleil with either GlovePie or Wiinremote.

Re:What driver?

[TangoMargarine]

BlueSoleil and GlovePie? You're sure these are Windows programs?!

All the crazy names that give you no hint whatsoever what the program is for are supposed to be reserved for Linux! :)

Folder picker

[tepples]

A file browser likely can't be done, since apps are sandboxed.

The operating system itself has a FolderPicker that lets the user choose to add a particular path to the application's sandbox. If the user chooses to add an entire Videos folder, then the application can retain this entire folder as one of 1,000 items in the application's sandbox.

Re:Folder picker

[shutdown -p now]

And you can "open" any folder on the system like that - including, say, C:\

PC does what Xbox don't

[tepples]

Using an entire computer for a media centre is sacrilege

Unless you want to play things that don't work on an Xbox One, such as audio and video in Free formats, audio and video in obscure formats, or indie games whose developer is still seeking a publisher on Xbox One.

Reason to use Metro

[tepples]

There's simply no reason to use Metro, period.

"Simply no reason" is strong words. On an x86-64 PC that comes with Windows 8 or 8.1, you need to use Metro to A. create or modify user accounts, or B. switch to the desktop to download and install Classic Shell. But that's about it.

Re:Reason to use Metro

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope.

A. You can create or modify user accounts in Computer Management or Control Panel, both are on the Win+X menu.
B. Desktop is on the Win+X menu.

The Win+X menu is what you get when you right click on the lower left corner of the screen or press Win+X.

There's simply no reason to use Metro, period.

Re:Reason to use Metro

[Arker]

Yeah, someone beat me to it, but anytime I see Metro I use a keyboard shortcut and I get back to work.

I suppose I actually do use it in a sense though - as that is where windows search has gone. But again I am hardly using that unusable excuse for an interface, it's just win-foobar on the keyboard and go.

I still find it funny that in 2014 Microsoft has now decided to sell an OS that is only usable from the keyboard, but it doesnt slow me down at all.

Re:Reason to use Metro

[jones_supa]

That is also because the graphical interface is so clunky to use that people simply resort to using the keyboard.

Ubuntu Single Sign On

[tepples]

Up next I predict a Linux ID

You need to create a Canonical account to use some of the optional online features of Ubuntu, such as Ubuntu One backup, paid applications in Ubuntu Software Center, and participation in Ubuntu Forums and Launchpad.

Re:Ubuntu Single Sign On

[Darinbob]

Late to respond to this, because I face-palmed myself so hard I passed out.

3D support?

[able1234au]

What about 3D screen support for VLC? I haven't been able to get that working. I am using Windows 8.1 and NVIDIA with a shutter style glasses and 120MHz screen.

VLC is free on Metro.

[westlake]

On my Windows 8.1 desktop, I can get VLC for free
In the world of Metro, I can get the same app for $3.99

I went out and successfully installed the free VLC Modern app through the Windows store while trying to make sense of your post.

For the tablets

[HalAtWork]

They're bothering because it got kickstarted, so they kind of have to follow through, and more importantly, people want it on Windows RT so they can play ripped movies on their tablet since it doesn't have a DVD/BluRay drive.

Re:For the tablets

[CastrTroy]

You can already play videos on your Windows RT tablet (such as the Surface) using the included video player. It supports x264 which is probable the most widely used format. I'm not sure if it supports MKV, but there are other apps that already support that. VLC is actually quite late to the game. They should have had something a long time ago. People who have a Windows RT tablet already have lots of options for playing videos.

I have used Microsoft sense dos ver 1.1

[ralphaostrander]

I hat Win 8 so bad that I will not buy another MS Windows Product Me Vista I have had it. I have put a VM of Maverics and Apple Mac Pro is in my future. I really am done.

back compatibility question.

[volvox_voxel]

Is it possible to run windows 7 apps on windows 8 ? ..Is there an easy means to click on a file and tell it to install it as if it was running on windows 7? I have been a long-time windows user, and like the overall user experience and graphics, but it does give me pause about much easier it is to run old programs in Linux. It's been my experience that you can get programs going from 10+ years ago because you have the source you can build from.. I maintain many old boxes for software/hardware compatibility reasons (95,98,2000,XP,Win7). I installed a virtual machine in windows 7, only to find that my video card didn't have an XP driver other than the default windows one.. How do people handle unsupported hardware in their virtual machines in Windows? Are there ways around them so you can get you "old games" running on a new machine? ..I really like the people at Good Old Games that figured out a way to make a large selection games run on a modern.. I only wish they had more titles. ...We can run old Cobol and Fortran programs from 55+ years ago.. It would be nice to see the same for our modern programs..This is one thing I hope for as computers mature.

Re:back compatibility question.

[shutdown -p now]

Is it possible to run windows 7 apps on windows 8 ?

Yes, so long as it's not ARM (and hence running Windows RT).

.Is there an easy means to click on a file and tell it to install it as if it was running on windows 7?

Yes, but only for desktop apps. It doesn't work for the new-style Store apps - the latter can only be installed from the Store (though there are some options for sideloading if you get a free-but-registration-required developer license).

. I installed a virtual machine in windows 7, only to find that my video card didn't have an XP driver other than the default windows one

This doesn't make sense. Your physical video card is not exposed directly to the VM, the VM gets some sort of emulated one, the performance of which depends on which VM software you are using.

I really like the people at Good Old Games that figured out a way to make a large selection games run on a modern

Most of GOG stuff is just the original game packaged together with DOSBox. You can do it yourself for many other titles if you can obtain the original binaries.

Re:back compatibility question.

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it possible to run windows 7 apps on windows 8 ? ..Is there an easy means to click on a file and tell it to install it as if it was running on windows 7?

All Windows 7 apps should run as-is on Windows 8. If not, there's still the possibility to run them in Compatibility Mode of Windows 7. But I doubt that you will encounter any problems. Even most XP apps should be fine.

Always Negative?

[Anonymous Coward]

We have a wide choice of user interfaces (desktop enviroments). GNOME 3 is good, KDE is better, XFCE is best, LXDE is fast, Elightenment is cool, MATE is fine, Cinnamon is great and there are lot of other choices like Unity, Razor-Qt, Trinity etc. So who is the real negative here? GNU/Linux or your choice of OS?

BlueSoleil is paywalled

[tepples]

A Wii Remote ($37.99) and BlueSoleil software ($27.99) already cost more than a WD TV box. And is GlovePIE still doing that region coding crap where it'll disable itself if you speak Hebrew?