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Google and Microsoft Both Want To Stop Dual-Boot Windows/Android Device
An anonymous reader writes "The laptop has undergone many changes over the past decade. At various times, netbooks, ultrabooks, and Chromebooks have been en vogue. Over the past several months, we've seen signs of the next step in the laptop's evolution: Android/Windows dual-boot laptops. Several companies have built these machines already, including Asus and its upcoming Transformer Book Duet TD300. However, neither Google nor Microsoft seem to want such an unholy marriage of operating systems, and they've both pressured Asus to kill off the dual-boot product lines. Asus has now complied. 'Google has little incentive to approve dual-OS models, since that could help Microsoft move into mobile devices where Android is dominant. ... Microsoft has its own reasons for not wanting to share space on computers with Google, particularly on business-oriented desktop and laptop PCs that could give the Internet giant an entry point into a Microsoft stronghold. Computer makers that make dual-OS machines risk jeopardizing a flow of marketing funds from Microsoft that are an important economic force in the low-margin PC business.'"
So neither perspective or any reason has the customers interests in mind.
I think I have my next project, then? Does anyone want to buy one of these?
Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
Fuck Google AND Microsoft.
Always TWO Sith there are...
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
why not just spend the hour that it takes to set up your own linux/windows dual boot?
Don't make any mistake about it anymore. Google has been falling into the old footsteps of 1990s Microsoft for some time. They're moving to close source anything of value, they're moving to prevent anyone who isn't on board with Google from making decent Android devices, and they're moving to prevent multi-boot.
Welcome to 1999. Google is evil.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." —Jonathan Swift
Personally I don't care what OS I use as long as I can accomplish the task at hand. I find all OS's missing some functionality. Some do it deliberately and others are missing the developers and/or resources. Android is my preferred mobile platform and OSX is my referred desktop platform. As it stands now both will lose from this choice since I may go for the Air instead of a combo.
DRM? No thanks, I'll just get it somewhere else...
we've seen signs of the next step in the laptop's evolution
Who would want a dual boot a laptop with an OS that has been dead for almost 20 years?
Open! Right?
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Well, you know.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
* Apple has Boot Camp because they have to allow Dual Booting in order to lure in the majority of computer users—Windows users. They sure as hell aren't helping Linux users out.
* Apple introduced Boot Camp when they were still user-friendly—before they started constructing their walled guarden (located at 1984 Infinite Loop).
* Of course Apple provides the Windows drivers for Apple's own machines; every vendor that supports Windows has always had to do so.
Where do Zuckerberg and Ellison fit into this Lucasian demonology?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
If you think it's a bad experience when you have a single OS (plus first-party apps) vendor, and a separate manufacturer (e.g.: my Lenovo and it's bevy of task-tray items), try it now with two fully supported OSs out of the box.
While I agree that it sucks that Google and Microsoft both are trying to defeat this initiative, I can also say with a 95% certainty that even if the both condoned it, it would still be a really bad experience.
Google's hypocrisy with android being "Open" is what's really exposed here - in honesty, both Microsoft and Google are as bad as Apple in desiring closed platforms. It's just that Apple seems better at delivering said platform.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
If your product relies on a 3rd-party to actually attract customers (and/or make a profit), your business model is flawed and you're doomed.
.
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
Which would be totally true, if all those services you're relying on to make all those devices useful weren't running on racks of Linux servers.
That is Latin for Devide and conquor.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
All sounds good, until you need to lug around either a heavy bulky laptop or spend a lot of money for a light one, with the enough battery so you can go around with a full work station for real work. When you are web browsing and running simple apps most of the time. You are better of getting a cheap tablet or chromebook with a Data Plan and have your Linux running on a server where you can access for nearly anywhere.
So if you are going to access your server from a low end thin client. What should your core OS be?
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Why are you trying to sync your mobile toy with my LAMP!?!?
Where do Zuckerberg and Ellison fit into this Lucasian demonology?
One is from Naboo and the other from the forest moon of Endor. I'll let you decide which is which...
[The Universe] has gone offline.
I am suddenly struck by the urge to dual boot on my 8.1 laptop. Is Android-x86 prefect and wonderful?
Information just wants to be free.
Or at least 1/20th the cost we get overcharged for substandard service in the US while real First World nations get real Internet, real dual boot, and real security.
You can always dual boot the other way and not "tell" the Win side about the removable 2 TB SDD you have.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Silly rabbit, the US hasn't used anti-trust law enforcement since Reagan.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Ah, but which is the master and which the apprentice?
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
NeXTstep is alive and well; it's just called OS X now. Mac users can use Boot Camp to switch between OS X and Windows. I don't know how well it'd work with Android/x86 though.
Do let us all know when you have solved basic issues like drivers for printers, scanners
The printer and scanner on my HP OfficeJet 4500 work well with Ubuntu, and any PC running Chrome can act as a proxy for printing from an Android device.
sync with mobile devices
True, GNU/Linux has had trouble communicating with Android over MTP. But Android Debug Bridge works, as does setting up a Samba share on your GNU/Linux PC and accessing it with Rhythm Software File Manager for Android.
until you need to lug around either a heavy bulky laptop or spend a lot of money for a light one
I learned on Scroogled.com a couple weeks ago that 10" Windows laptops are back in production.
You are better of getting a cheap tablet or chromebook with a Data Plan and have your Linux running on a server where you can access for nearly anywhere.
If you're going to just use a Chromebook as an X11 or VNC terminal for a GNU/Linux VPS, how much does a data plan for that cost over the 48-month expected service life of a laptop? And how well does 3D graphics (e.g. Blender) tunnel over such a connection?
Seems like neither Google nor Microsoft wants to compete with the other, so they partitioned the PC market with Google getting the mobile part and Microsoft the desktop. Business as usual.
Begins with fucking over your customers for selfish reasons.
If your product relies on a 3rd-party to actually attract customers (and/or make a profit), your business model is flawed and you're doomed.
Are petrol stations doomed because they rely on automakers to bring in customers? Are game console makers* doomed because they rely on third-party developers to attract customers, and vice versa?
* Other than Nintendo, whose consoles rely heavily on the first-party lineup.
I own a PC I built myself that is running Windows 7, and I have a Samsung Galaxy S4 running an Android 4.2 custom ROM, and I think the market is already competitive enough.
Yea and my oven dispenses delicious chocolate chip cookies if you put the right ingredients inside of it and open the door at just the right time.
I think it is unfair to say "Now we want you to design your hardware to be able to run your competitor's OS." That is going too far.
As a consumer I am sick of the silos, walled gardens and license to fuck over the customer that comes with each vendors try at "ecosystem lockin"
Reality is there is too much value bottled up for the current state of affairs to be sustainable over the long haul. Both hardware and software will become more modular like PCs in the future. Prior technical excuses of severely limited room and processor space has not been true for a number of years and any added costs in generalizing software and hardware interfaces will quickly pay dividends as the barrier to entry is reduced.
Because there are different companies that have created separate, yet popular ways of doing things. Because of this separateness, your knowledge of both OSes is valuable because you can do business with either.
Operating systems are commodities like gas and cookies. The sooner we all get to treating them that way the better off we all are.
But I don't blame the companies for not wanting hardware that makes it as easy as falling off a log. This is actually a catch 22; did you consider that the very device you want to make your job easier is the same device that can make your job obsolete?
Relax, you can always find work in Oregon and New Jersey working the pumps.
When a company is competitive, we get functional devices and they get money and market share. Having a device that can dual boot would be even more functional for the end user, but potentially suicidal for the company.
It really isn't that hard a concept. If you want to stay in business you provide value customers are willing to pay for. The second you have nothing to offer is the second you die.
Modularization is happening whether OS vendors like it or not. I invite those opposed to ignore it.
We could have given their bastard children..
Metroid
Winroids
Andows
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Because Linux devs still haven't made an REALLY good default GUI to this day *holds up Unity as an example*
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Elop.
@ s.petry who was talking about dual booting saving them money in their job. You know why your job exists in the first place? Because there are different companies that have created separate, yet popular ways of doing things.
Why my job exists is because I'm awesome (in addition to being modest)! I started working IT before Windows existed, but I have not been locked into Windows, Redhat, Solaris, AIX, HP-UX, IRIX, SCO OpenServer, TRUE, OS-400 or MVS. I have surely worked on all of those things at some point, but absolutely none of my career has relied on a specific company or "popular" product. I'm adaptive, I can deduce and solve problems, I can look at large environments and implement my own software when no product exists. Don't assume everyone is dependent on a particular vendor for a job, because many of us have no problems moving around. Many of us that are good at our jobs enjoy doing just that every once in a while for a new view of the world.
To claim I should have to purchase 2 devices to run two operating systems for the same device is foolish. The whole point in developing dual boot long long ago was so that we could increase productivity in addition to saving money on hardware. Companies have no rights to force this either, look at the feedback from Microsoft's secure boot for an example. Consumers don't want it.
A company should have every right to sell expertise in setting this up for people with no knowledge or limited knowledge. This is what entrepreneurship is.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
for people, consumer organisations and politicians to promote dual (or more) boot devices...
But they aren't the same device. Windows phones are made by Microsoft, and Android phones are made by Google, Samsung, etc..
First things you should do is some homework to see how wrong you are. Phones use the same basic hardware to function no matter what the OS running on them. This is intentionally done to make the cost lower and not something a consumer has any control over.
I have a WebOS tablet that runs Android, and I have PCs that run Debian, Redhat, Backtrack, and Windows. There are people at work running several versions of Android on the same phone, as well as a Windows phone that can also run Android. So they are the same device, it's just a different OS running at a given time.
Your example is wrong, there is no "screw" vs. "nail" analogy to be had. Read the chipset specs for Windows and Android phones and you will find the similarities. This is what people do to save money with development and gain knowledge.
Companies don't generally save money by dual booting in the traditional sense because a phone or PC is not very expensive. They save money in productivity and development time. You are arguing that lethargic single boot systems are the only way to do business, which means you believe virtual machines are out too. We run simulators for chipsets on VMs before we ever touch a phone, and we run numerous virtual Operating systems to accomplish this task.
Change your analogy to a virtual operating system and see if it works out. It won't because virtual machines are very effective, especially in development and testing. Virtual machines came about for the same reason dual boot did. Why have lost cycles on a device you purchase when you can run multiple operating systems and programs and actually use the device to it's fullest potential.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
U.S. copyright law defines a "copy" as a distinct physical object. If you have installed two works on one hard drive, you have one copy of two works, just as if you had a short story anthology.
Huh? What does that have to do with my first sentence? I was simply stating that I own devices from both markets, therefore I speak from experience, that's all. Not sure what the confusing reply is all about...
What does building PC and owning an S4 have to do with your assertion of an already competitive enough market? Makes no sense hence the cookies.
Fuck over the customer? Nobody is twisting your arm, forcing you to buy a phone or computer
I am forced to use computers and mobile phones just as I am forced to drive a car. It is not possible to elect not to do these things without suffering unacceptable consequences. Hence my desire for viable solutions free of vendor bullshit.
Sorry, but I call bullshit. Who exactly is creating that value? Not you, not me, and it doesn't magically appear out of thin air.
App vendors. They have every interest in the world in maximizing their customer base which means tearing down those silos. Likewise people need to effectively communicate and transact across devices unimpeded by vendor specific hoops and proprietary crap. Todays write 20 times run anywhere nonsense is unsustainable.
They want the advantage of the devices they make, and they don't want anyone else stealing their thunder; what is the problem with that? You seriously expect a company to spend $millions on R&D and then sell their devices, at cost, as a neutral platform?
I expect hardware vendors to make great innovative hardware and sell it for what market is willing to accept. I don't expect vendors to tell me what operating system I can or can not run or otherwise impose artificial limits on what I can or can't do with the hardware once it has been sold. I vote with my dollar.
Even PCs aren't really that modular. For the average consumer/end-user, the alternatives to Windows generally are, for the most part, Linux and Mac.
I can choose from any of a dozen PSU vendors, DRAM vendors, form factors, a few processor, GPU vendors, persistent storage vendors, plug all manner of expansion hardware into any number of standardized interfaces, dozens of motherboard vendors, cooling solutions, keyboards, displays, mice, printers, audio, network. I am free to run any operating system that will run without artificial limits.. Windows, Linux, Solaris, FreeBSD, ESX, Android, ReactOS, DOS, OS/2...ad nauseam.
In the tablet and mobile handset spaces too often hardware is locked down to where it is not possible to install other operating systems without having to exploit system defects. Windows phone loader is intentionally locked down to prevent execution of anything except windows and carriers are increasingly enforcing the same restrictions on their modified android builds.
I don't see how you can compare those two. They have nothing in common. Gas and cookies are consumables that take a small amount of effort to make. They aren't that expensive, but
The point is anyone's gasoline works in my vehicle in the same way anyone's software should work on my computer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...
is the essence of what makes a commodity a commodity.
Really? You just being silly or what?
Underlying point is no joke. Limiting value to consumer for sake of employment is indefensible Malthusian dogma.
Ten pounds of shit in a five pound bag. Ten pounds of OS in a five pound box.