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Church Committee Members Say New Group Needed To Watch NSA

Posted by timothy on from the and-a-committee-to-oversee-the-committee dept.

Trailrunner7 writes "In a letter sent to President Obama and members of Congress, former members and staff of the Church Committee on Intelligence said that the revelations of the NSA activities have caused 'a crisis of public confidence' and encouraged the formation of a new committee to undertake 'significant and public reexamination of intelligence community practices.' In the letter sent Monday to Obama and Congress, several former advisers to and members of the Church committee, including the former chief counsel, said that the current situation involving the NSA bears striking resemblances to the one in 1975 and that the scope of what the NSA is doing today is orders of magnitude larger than what was happening nearly 40 years ago.

'The need for another thorough, independent, and public congressional investigation of intelligence activity practices that affect the rights of Americans is apparent. There is a crisis of public confidence. Misleading statements by agency officials to Congress, the courts, and the public have undermined public trust in the intelligence community and in the capacity for the branches of government to provide meaningful oversight,' the letter says."

20 of 143 comments (clear)

  1. "Misleading statements by agency officials to..." by Cornwallis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You mean "lies" - FTFY.

  2. really? by DaWhilly · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We have a group that monitors the NSA. The NSA lied to them.

    1. Re:really? by jcr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exactly. The only remedy for the NSA problem is to disband the NSA, and bar all of its current employees from any future jobs in government or as contractors to the government.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:really? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "We have a group that monitors the NSA. The NSA lied to them."

      BS. Do you really think the chair of the Intelligence Committe, Dianne Feinstein, didn't have a pretty good idea of what was going on? She was one of the people pushing for it.

      The fact that this uproar is only happening now, when she found out that *SHE* was being spied on, would be hilarious if it weren't such a goddamned tragedy and parody of justice.

  3. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? by r_jensen11 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Who watches the watchmen?

    Yes, the NSA and the greater intelligence community clearly needs oversight, but will anyone trust someone with that much power any more than we currently trust the NSA?

    And to preach to the choir, but shouldn't the conversation shift to asking:

    • Which risks are we (as a society) willing to take
    • What does the intelligence community need to fulfill its social responsibility?
    1. Re:Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Who watches the watchmen?

      In theory, that would be the job of the free press.

    2. Re:Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "And to preach to the choir, but shouldn't the conversation shift to asking:

      Which risks are we (as a society) willing to take

      What does the intelligence community need to fulfill its social responsibility?"

      NO. We already have answers to these questions.

      The Constitution clearly shows us the safeguards to use: strictly limited government is the only solid answer to the first question, and government's actions outside the Constitution have only been further proving the validity of that. (Though why we should need even more proof than history had already given us might actually be a valid question.)

      As for what the intelligence committee "needs": that is also pretty damned clear. The first thing they need is to ensure the government stops spying on all American citizens who aren't prior suspects of espionage... with probable-cause EVIDENCE of the latter.

      The second thing they need is to make sure the government stops doing stupid spy shit to our allies and pissing them off.

      After that, we will see.

  4. Nice that they're trying.. by Rigel47 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But I can't help but feel that the very nature of our Government has morphed. Institutions like the NSA aren't bothered by public perception -- they have grown into their own. They are beholden only to their own agenda and will do whatever it takes (lying to congress, fabricating effectiveness) to maintain and expand their power. Obama will do some hand-wringing on TV but in the end nothing will change.

  5. Nothing to do with the church. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee

  6. Re:Church? by spafbi · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ahem... from wikipedia: "The Church Committee was the United States Senate Select Committee to Study Governmental Operations with Respect to Intelligence Activities, a U.S. Senate committee chaired by Senator Frank Church (D-ID) in 1975." ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...

  7. Re:Church? by leftover · · Score: 4, Informative

    The committee was chaired by a Congress-critter named Church. Nothing whatever to do with religion.

    --
    Bent, folded, spindled, and mutilated.
  8. Beyond oversight? by tchdab1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seems like the NSA and CIA might be by nature beyond oversight. Their job includes assuming that the worst scenarios are possible, which then justifies any action to thwart them, including lying to their overseers in order to keep doing illegal things they think is necessary to prevent those worst possible scenarios. It's bureaucratic paranoia resulting in functional schizophrenia that makes sense within the hive mind but not within the greater public mind that employs them to keep us safe.

  9. Because what the US Government needs... by argStyopa · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...is another committee, I'm sure of it.

    Maybe a committe, and a staff...of course you have to have a competent staff. And they're going to be overworked, so a whole fleet of nubile, er, naive, er, talented interns.

    And they'll need offices, maybe a new office building, somewhere downtown so they can exercise 'oversight' as closely as possible. A parking garage, certainly, plus probably a cafeteria. Probably a monorail from the airport is worth considering too...

    --
    -Styopa
  10. And do what? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sure, an oversight committee would be a good idea. But are they going to be able to actually do their job? High-ranking officials in the NSA have already demonstrated they are willing to outright lie to congress, so why would they be any more honest here?

    We'll just end up with a committee that isn't allowed to know about the things they should be monitoring, wouldn't be told if they were allowed to know, and can't actually do anything about any abuses they do find beyond politely reminding the NSA that their actions are probably illegal.

  11. Reform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No amount of "reform" is going to fix this. Adding more lawyers and more bureaucracy will not fix this. It's all cop-outs and the NSA will keep doing what it's doing under whatever name it's given as part whatever cop-out reform you can imagine.

    You might get there with constitutional amendments, but personally I'm arguing for a breakup; the problem is the millions highly paid bureaucrats ensconced in Washington doing the bidding of their hundred foot tall political Masters of the Universe in league with corporate statists trying to rectifiy the world to fit their business models. We don't actually need these people to live well and honorably, folks.

    We really don't.

  12. Re:"Misleading statements by agency officials to.. by jcr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not just lies, perjury. Those lies were told under oath.

    If we had a functioning justice system in this country, those perps would be in jail awaiting trial right now.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  13. Nancy Pelosi stated that they were afaid to fix it by stox · · Score: 3, Informative

    “You don’t fight it without a price because they come after you and they don’t always tell the truth."

    http://blogs.rollcall.com/218/...

    --
    "To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
  14. Just disband it by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's what you do with rogue agencies.

    Back when I was in the Canadian Army, we disbanded entire units, burned their colors, demoted their officers, and punished the guilty for torturing civilians in Africa.

    Do that with the NSA. Starting at the top, with long prison sentences in gulags.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  15. Re:"Misleading statements by agency officials to.. by RabidReindeer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Laws apply to everybody regardless of who's roaming the planet.

    Otherwise the psychos end up running things.

  16. Re:"Misleading statements by agency officials to.. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Insightful

    THIS!!!

    There is never greater need for the rule of law than when society is at war or otherwise under attack.

    In fact, artificial creation of "emergencies" is a classic ploy of governments to grab more power over the people.