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Back To the Moon — In Four Years

braindrainbahrain writes "Gene Grush, a former division chief at NASA Johnson, has written a series of articles on how the U.S. can return to the Moon in four years. He says not only can we land there, but we can actually build a base on the Moon as well. How is this feasible? A public/private partnership between NASA and a private space company. Quoting: 'The biggest obstacle is the lack of a rocket, called a super heavy launch vehicle, to lift it off the planet. NASA is working on one, called the Space Launch System, but the agency is constrained by its budget and the likelihood of it flying in that time frame is slim. But there’s an interim solution: SpaceX’s Falcon Heavy, which will have its maiden flight this year and can supposedly launch up to 53 metric tons into orbit.'

'[I]f NASA makes lowering launch costs its highest priority, escaping the bonds that hold us to Earth will be financially feasible. We don’t do this by controlling the design so much as the frequency -- we are the customer, after all.' 'The development of a lunar base could be a catalyst for lowering our launch cost to space and accelerating the development of automation and robotics. ... If America doesn’t step up to the plate, China’s ambitions for the moon may establish it as the “go-to” nation for space exploration. Many nations of the world privately say they want the moon to be the next step in space exploration -- but they can’t get there on their own. They need a technically savvy and resourceful country to lead.'"

16 of 292 comments (clear)

  1. NASA needs SpaceX. SpaceX doesn't need NASA. by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I won't claim that NASA isn't serving as a conduit between the dollar printing engine and SpaceX and providing some land facilities, but aside from that, NASA hasn't been able to get back to the moon in 40 years. Assuming there's a good reason to do so (H3 is good enough for me, even if it's a bit soon) SpaceX can conceivably raise the funds on their own and find a jurisdiction friendly to their launch requirements. Even if NASA weren't interested, SpaceX would still get to the moon in relatively short order - even if only as a testbed for Mars landings.

    --
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  2. Lets divert some military funds by adric22 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You know just 1% of our military budget diverted to NASA could do amazing things.. imagine if we diverted half of that budget!

    1. Re:Lets divert some military funds by deathcloset · · Score: 3, Insightful

      By slashing the US military budget like that we could quickly and easily build a moon base which along with our country would quickly and easily be taken over by another country's military.

      ;) oh I kid.

      But honestly, what do you think would happen if the US military were suddenly defunded? Do you think the other countries would be like - good for them! We don't need militaries any more any how and certainly not a single one of us big countries with our current militaries would ever dream of using our forces again the US, even as defenseless as they are right now with all their resources and food and two coastlines and pop music...

      All snarkiness aside, I agree with your sentiment and wish we had interplanetary spacecraft and bases on more than one moon :( - almost even at the risk of the US's national security...almost.

      And I almost actually believe that even if the US military were to shrink hugely that we would not be attacked, because I don't think the average citizen in a non-us western country would want to attack/invade another civilized country. No, not the people, but the governments of those countries (governments are things which function almost like independent living entities themselves seemingly making their own decisions) are what there is to be concerned about.

      Yes, civilized countries maintaining huge military powers is just the way it is right now. In the future when countries don't have militaries anymore I'm sure we will look back on our time the same way we look at the american old west: we will understand that the environment of the time required that everyone carry a pistol, and that the harshness of the climate (ecological, financial and social) resulted in far more altercations than would seem reasonable - but they will understand.

      And they will probably make a ton of movies about our time too.

      And they will probably watch them on their fancy-dancy moon bases.

      whatever. good for them.

      ;)

    2. Re:Lets divert some military funds by Patch86 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The US military budget is the same as the next 10 biggest national military budgets put together. Yes, that includes China- and 9 more. Put together. And that's forgetting the fact that the US military isn't just the military of the US- it includes all of the NATO forces (which is fully 5 of the top 10 spenders, and 23 other non-top-10 members), as well as functionally close allies like Japan and South Korea (numbers 5 and 12 in the "top spending" rankings).

      The US would be in no great danger if it lopped 5% off of it's military budget. You could cut the budget in half and it would still be larger than numbers 2 and 3 (China and Russia) put together. Again, not even counting NATO.

      To put figures on it- the Apollo programme was estimated to have costed $109 billion in 2010 dollar (accounting for inflation). That's for the full 15 year or so programme. The US was estimated to have spent $682 billion in 2013 on the military. So to pay for the entire Apollo programme all over again, you would only need to divert roughly 1.2% of the annual military budget each year.

    3. Re:Lets divert some military funds by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The US military budget is huge. Plus they can't be attacked, for they have nuclear weapons. If China invades and come close to looking like they might win, no more major Chinese cities.

      A huge slash in military spending won't threaten the US directly. It will lessen their force projection abilities - their power to invade somewhere like Afganistan and Iraq. The threat of the US doing that is enough to keep some countries in line - it's the reason Israel hasn't been invaded, and why North Korea hasn't done more than sabre-rattling against the south. Consider it the 'Pax Americana' - the various oppressive dictators of the world know they are free to oppress their own people, but start invading their neighbors and there will be an American bomb* coming through the palace roof. Except for Russia, for obvious reasons.

      *With 'Made in China' written on it.

    4. Re:Lets divert some military funds by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You don't need to slash the military budget to fund NASA. What you need to do is give NASA a budget of the amount they currently have, and let NASA choose how to allocate it. Let them pick the research, technology and contractors, and just give them a general mandate of scientific exploration of the solar system, and maybe a secondary one of "advance manned space flight".

      Currently they have the ridiculous situation where congressmen pick the projects, and somehow wind up picking the technologies (solid fuel boosters are *clearly* the best choice, because they're made in my district you see!).

    5. Re:Lets divert some military funds by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But honestly, what do you think would happen if the US military were suddenly defunded?

      A lot of bullshit pork contracts would have their fat trimmed, we'd murder less people for profit, or both.

      --
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  3. Launch costs are expensive for a reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not the fuel that's expensive, it's the thing you put it in. And that rocket has to function perfectly, 100% of the time, across a giant temperature, pressure and acceleration gradient. And it has to be "man-rated," in other words, made survivable in case of a failed launch and prepared for atmospheric re-entry, which are some of the most extreme conditions known to mankind. Most of the costs that are being complained about are due to the absolutely necessary safety culture built into the manufacturing of these vehicles, stacked on top of amortized R&D (hint: SpaceX didn't need to do nearly as much R&D as they did to get the Saturn V off the ground).

    1. Re:Launch costs are expensive for a reason by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Potentially China has a huge advantage: A looser idea of 'man rated.'

  4. Savvy by Princeofcups · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "They need a technically savvy and resourceful country to lead."

    That leaves us (USA) out, sadly. Unless it can pull in advertising revenue, it ain't happening. I hope China does well with their moon exploration.

    --
    The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
  5. Re:Brought to you by Fox News by Oligonicella · · Score: 3

    Links please. The tone of the articles are paramount. If the first was an expose, it's not quite what you paint. Even if it's as you portray, that's preferable to say, CNN, which has points of view it *never* airs because it's against their political agenda.

  6. Re:Yeah, too bad there's no real reason to do so.. by KDN · · Score: 3
    No reason to go? Exploration, research, challenges and opportunities and technical advances that we can't even begin to articulate. We have not even begun to explore the moon. More men accompanied Christopher Columbus on his first voyage to the New World than have landed on the moon. Even without men we can send dozens of missions to help iron out the details of new propulsion systems like ion or hall or vascimar. We can develop and deploy robotic probes with a far faster turn around time (and less need to gold plate everything) by doing the development on the moon instead of Mars. We can see the long term radiation effects on materials once they are outside of Earth's protective magnetic field. Put even a small observatory on the far side of the moon and you open up huge opportunities shielded from all the transmitters on Earth, and outside of Earth's atmosphere. I would put several at different spots to enable long baseline measurements as well as lessen the expense of triple redundant systems in case of failure.

    H

    And lastly, give this generation something to shoot for. Something other than the newest Angry Birds or social media app. Something to shoot for, to make history, to inspire a new generation like JFK's speech on going to the moon. It will happen. The question is, will they speak Chinese or American?

  7. Re:NASA needs SpaceX. SpaceX doesn't need NASA. by smaddox · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm assuming you meant He3, but it is worthless without a working fusion reactor, of which we have none. The only value of a lunar base would be as an intermediate port for assembling large ships for longer journeys. Well, that and you could make some badass telescopes on the dark side.

  8. Re:China being the lead in space... by Billy+the+Mountain · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hey, the late 1950's called. They want their silly argument back!

    --
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  9. Re:NASA needs SpaceX. SpaceX doesn't need NASA. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 3, Insightful

    He3 is fuel for reactors we don't even know how to build yet. The moon is a very useful place to have a base scientifically (Great for astronomy in all bands) but commercially, not much use. There's no money in it. The ore isn't good enough to pay for the cost of getting it, communications and earth science are better done in more-affordable earth orbit, it's too far to transmit power. It could serve as a good waypoint for longer journeys, manufacturing fuel in the shallow gravity well, but there's no commercial possibility further out either. Lofty dreams of colonising space don't pay the bills.

    We'll probably still be saying that when the meteor hits.

  10. Re:Yeah, too bad there's no real reason to do so.. by wisnoskij · · Score: 3, Funny

    This time we will send an African. And we shall call it "Black to the Moon".

    --
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