Slashdot Mirror
Jimmy Carter: Snowden Disclosures Are 'Good For Americans To Know'
McGruber writes: "Former U.S. President Jimmy Carter defended the disclosures by fugitive NSA contractor Edward Snowden on Monday, saying revelations that U.S. intelligence agencies were collecting meta-data of Americans' phone calls and e-mails have been 'probably constructive in the long run.' 'I think it's wrong,' President Carter said of the NSA program. 'I think it's an intrusion on one of the basic human rights of Americans, is to have some degree of privacy if we don't want other people to read what we communicate.'"
It's important to note that Carter doesn't believe Snowden should necessarily get a pass for his actions. Carter said, "I think it's inevitable that he should be prosecuted and I think he would be prosecuted, [if he comes back to the U.S.] But I don't think he ought to be executed as a traitor or any kind of extreme punishment like that." Nevertheless, Carter thinks NSA surveillance has gotten out of control. "We've gone a long way down the road of violating Americans' basic civil rights, as far as privacy is concerned." He added, "For the last two or three years, when I want to write a highly personal letter to a foreign leader, or even some American leaders, I hand-write it and mail it, because I feel that my telephone calls and my email are being monitored, and there are some things I just don’t want anybody to know except me and my wife."
What does President Carter have to hide? Must be some sort of terrorist if he wants to communicate privately. We should get a government security detail to monitor this dissident ASAP.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
Ah yes, Obama, our weak totalitarian king community organizer who is controlled by nazi tree-hugging muslim pastors.
Did I get everything that's wrong with Obama? Or am I missing the fear du jour?
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
I'm glad that Mr. Carter is so concerned about the basic human rights of Americans. I would, however, urge him to explain to me how the basic human rights of Americans differ from the basic human rights of other humans...
Seriously, all of the recent news about the NSA basically read "oh, we will take better care of US citizens", but the fact that they explicitly mention the "basic human rights of Americans" or "US citizens" probably implies "we'll continue as before spying on our friends over in Europe and elsewhere"...
I'm glad to hear Carter's stance on NSA and spying but I'm deeply disappointed that he stopped short of exoneration for Snowden. In my mind, Snowden is a patriot. No country should sacrifice liberty for security. When this happens, the terrorists win. Yes, they win and win big.
Ah yes, Obama, our weak totalitarian king community organizer who is controlled by nazi tree-hugging muslim pastors.
Did I get everything that's wrong with Obama? Or am I missing the fear du jour?
I think you forgot to play the race card.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Jimmy Carter is the best ex-president we've ever had.
but first we need to prosecute the criminals he revealed. Unless that happens, nothing will change.
Ah yes, Obama, our weak totalitarian king community organizer who is controlled by nazi tree-hugging muslim pastors.
Did I get everything that's wrong with Obama? Or am I missing the fear du jour?
I think you forgot to play the race card.
And he forgot to call Obama a "socialist". Also some kind of shot at "Obamacare" is always called for in such matters.
Oh for fuck's sake don't be such a jerk about this. Carter may not be anywhere near the best President we've had in this country, but he was President, and as such his making statements like these publicly actually does mean something, and I for one am glad he's come out and said what he had to say. Furthermore I suspect there are other notable people who'd like to follow suit but didn't want to be the first one to do so. 'Bout damned time, I say.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
Politicians are quick to say the NSA has gone too far, but none of them have the balls to say Snowden should be pardoned. Grow some balls. He apparently tried several times to bring his concerns to his superiors, only to be shut down. If he didn't do what he did, we would not know what we know, or even be having this discussion. There's no need to make him a martyr. He did what was right.
Carter was a good president, probably the one of the best, that just happened to be not as good at politics.
:. Ultimate Control Dedicated/VM Servers
Right, Whatever you think of Carter one of the common defenses jerks like Obama hide behind and lots of other people is, "the realities of the office."
And typically is pretty hard to counter argument because very few of us have any where near the information privilege the President does, and probably none can really understand the responsibility. However someone who has been President can; so that it cuts that argument off at the knees.
Carter condemning the surveillance, and calling the Snowden disclosures good for Americans, helps expose the "national security" lie.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
I hate it when Jimmy Carter and I agree on anything.
I hate it when Jimmy Carter and I agree with you on anything.
But seriously, the Carter hate is not entirely fair. Some bad things happened while he was in office, but he had some notable accomplishments too.
I think that it's fair to say that he was a much better human being than he was a politician. However, I think we would be better off with a few more Carters around.
I agree, this is a serious cop-out on Carter's part. Either you think the info shouldn't have been released and Snowden should be prosecuted, or you think it's good that it was and therefore he shouldn't be. It's inconsistent and pathetic to take the benefit of the data leak and yet support the punishment of the person(s) who gave you that benefit anyway.
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
Consequences carry. It doesn't matter what is right, just what is legal; the legal system doesn't concern itself with what is right and wrong. To an extent, what is right and wrong doesn't even cover all of what society needs--although my current theory is that operating in contrary to the three laws is always harmful to society, while fully following the three laws doesn't create an optimal society on its own.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
Carter was (is) a nice guy, probably one of the nicest, that just happened to be not good at politics, economics, or rescuing hostages.
FTFY
Just another day in Paradise
Now if Carter would only admit that, in 1978, instead of signing the FISA bill into law he should have listened to various rights groups like the ACLU warning about how the creation of a rubber-stamp secret court like FISA would only erode civil liberties and allow for a greater expansion of the surveillance state instead of limiting it, and vetoed it.
Remember he signed the Democrat sponsored FISA bill establishing the said rubber-stamp court into law, and has, through secret court decisions, allowed the surveillance state to greatly expand under successive administrations. I kinda sense that his activities now could almost be considered penitence for past bad decisions he made as President.
To be fair to Carter, most of the problems with the hostage rescue were actually military service interoperability problems. JSOC was founded AFTER the disaster because the military realized their own processes were not up to par. That said, his politics and economics were not so great. He's been an awesome ex-president though!
Carter knows how the system works (or more like how it doesn't work) he isn't going to go too far out on a limb when he doesn't know the details of the situation. Plus despite his age and lower activity he knows he can't afford to cause himself too much trouble - he has said for decades that he had to avoid stepping on toes because of the repercussions.
In addition, his philosophy is you change things within a system; which means dealing with the broken process and trying to fix it along the way. He does not have an insurgent mindset where one goes around the system on the assumption that it is useless and unrepairable. So it is a rather big deal that he backs Snowden's circumvention as much as he does. His thinking would be along the lines of a whistle blower protection process so one wouldn't need to circumvent the system. You simply don't succeed in the Military and then become US President without at least a little authoritarian bias.
Carter was the last actual president on the USA. Afterwards they were all vetted so they will not mess with the establishment. It just goes to show, the president doesn't have much power; just like a puppet dictator, the only power is that which is sanctioned by those who are actually in control.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Who needs to take a shot at Obamacare? He's doing that himself with his own executive orders. He's tacitly admitted that both the employer and citizen mandates are untenable.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
"I think that it's fair to say that he was a much better human being than he was a politician. However, I think we would be better off with a few more Carters around."
Agreed, but I struggle to think of any serious accomplishments. Here's what the first site I googled came up with, and most of it's really a stretch to call accomplishments.
What were President Jimmy Carter's accomplishments?
Domestic accomplishments of President Carter:
Created two new cabinet-level departments: the Department of Energy and the Department of Education
Established a national energy policy that included conservation, price control, and new technology
Took measures to improve the environment through the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act and the Superfund Act, which is designed to clean up sites contaminated with hazardous substances
Espoused a process of bureaucratic streamlining and was responsible for deregulating the airline, trucking, rail, communications, and finance industries
Foreign policy accomplishments of President Carter:
Strongly promoted human rights during his tenure and initiated the Camp David Accords, the Panama Canal Treaties, and the second round of Strategic Arms Limitation Talks (SALT II)
Presided over the 1979--1981 Iran hostage crisis and the failure of its major rescue operation, resulting in the deaths of eight American servicemen, one Iranian civilian, and the destruction of two aircraft
Boycotted the 1980 Summer Olympics in Moscow in response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979
Just another day in Paradise
SF groups in the military as we know them really got their start with the Strategic Operations Executive in WW2, and their missions basically consisted of going behind enemy lines and wrecking shit.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Snowden has said that he tried option 2 and was told to keep quiet. Add in that others who tried Option 2 a bit louder found themselves not only fired but with trumped up charges brought against them. This left Snowden's only real options as 1 (Keep quiet) and 3 (release the information). He chose 3 and, rightfully so, decided that doing this meant he'd need to go on the run.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
ZERO, but not because of Carter. And, the failed rescue mission, which arguably was his responsibility resulted in the loss of eight servicemen. It could be argued that this was the military's fault. But considering it was one of Delta Force's first missions, whoever decided that it was a good idea, or that they were prepared for the mission, should have been hung out to dry, and in the long run it's still Carter's responsibility.
Just another day in Paradise
To be fair to Carter, most of the problems with the hostage rescue were actually a result of the USA covertly installing a puppet government in a sovereign nation and continued use of the US embassy in Tehran as a forward operating base by American intelligency agents.
Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
Was the last President to accomplish anything significant in the Middle East Peace Process.
Was the last President to be concerned about Energy Policy on a level other than "Do what the Energy Companies pay you to do"... (He created the Energy Dept)
Took responsibility for his failures unlike his successor who claimed to be unaware of what his underlings did in his name. (Iran Contra)
Was the last honest President and never said things like "If you like your insurance you can keep it", "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction", "I did not have sex with that woman", "Read my lips: No new taxes", or talked about the virtues of smaller government while increasing the size of the military industrial complex, or waging a war on drugs as if American adults needed the government to tell them which intoxications they could indulge in...
He created less national debt than his successors
He didn't get the United States involved in any war. Between wars and attacks from Beirut, to the Stark, to the Cole, to Iraq War I, to Iraq War II, to Afghanistan, more military personnel died serving his succesors
His administration was far from perfect, but 100 years from now when OBJECTIVE historians research his time in office, he's going to come out looking a lot better than a lot of revisionist republican HACK historians would lead you to believe.
What? no. The mission had been aborted. Is was refueling after the abort when a helicopter crashed into a refueling aircraft.
While it was Carter responsibility, it was Kissinger the convinced Carter to allow the shah into the US for medical treatment.
The release was staged by the CIA to happen just after Reagan was sworn in.
hen the pubs take responsibility for hem being release while ignoring the 444 days that happened prior. It was pretty well known this was going to happen, and the CIA refused to do any more rescue missions.
The holloween massacre created a rift between the white house the CIA.
Yes, I know it all sound tin foil hatish, but you can easily verify all of it.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Carter may be one of the best ex-presidents we've had in a long time.
They had to have a first mission sooner or later. They were as prepared as the could have been for the times.
Just so you know, carter approved aborting the mission and they where on there way back when the accident happened. Along with a general, but I don't remember his name.
The pubs loved to go on like Carter personally killed each one of those men. It was the CIA that refused to do any more missions because they had already negotiated for the release of the hostages without white house knowledge to correspond with Reagan swearing in. There were released 20 minutes after he was sworn in. I remember Cronkite talking about this that summer.
I am not saying Carer wasn't responsible, just that you should no the facts.
*There are indicators it was an exchange for weapons. No proof.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Jimmy Carter lowered the Federal deficit (look it up!), and through his Fed chair appointee Paul Volcker squelched an incipient hyperinflation crisis by choking off the money supply. This was necessary because Nixon's appointee, Arthur F. Burns, had put the economy on a disastrous inflationary path. Volcker began relentlessly raising interest rates month after quarter to no avail, until finally the prime rate hit 20.00% (!!!). For comparison the current prime rate is 3.25%.
The result of fiscal austerity with a reduced money supply is high unemployment and stagnant growth, and since the medicine doesn't act instantly Carter got stagnation and near hyperinflation together. That was the right thing to do economically but very bad politics. But by July of the 1980 election year inflation had begun to decline, but this was too late to affect the elections.
Economic growth rebounded strongly in the first quarter of 1981. This was after Reagan took office, but months before any of his economic and budgeting policies took effect. Essentially, the "Reagan Boom" started under Carter's economic policies. Some will say it was Reagan's personality that infused the economy with confidence, and there may be a little truth in that; but I think that inflation dropping to single digits for the first time had something to do with the renewed confidence.
Reagan's economic policy amounted to this; massive increases deficit spending on a scale unseen since WW2. Federal outlays in 1981 were 678 billion; in 1989 it had balloned to 1,144 billion, an astonishing 69% increase in spending. Federal deficits rose from 2.75% of GDP under Carter's last budget to an average of 4.2% of GDP under Reagan. Which was not necessarily a bad thing, although I think it was a little excessive. But imagine raising deficits to 5.2% of GDP (as Reagan once did) if inflation were 15% or even 20%. There would have been no Keynsian "Reagan Boom" without the Carter era austerity. But Reagan gets 100% of the political credit for ending stagflation, even though he deserves no credit whatsoever in ending the inflationary part.
The right thing to do economically is a matter of context. Sometimes it's better to spend, other times it's better to tighten your belt. But tightening your belt is never politically popular, and it doesn't produce instant results.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
when it comes to having to pay for things like contraceptives or abortions.
How about this? You can withhold the percentage of your income taxes that provide abortions and contraceptives when you allow people who oppose war to withhold the percentage that gets pissed away on the military budget. Deal?
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
This is apparently news to you, but there are national security incidents and problems besides the events of 9/11/2001.
But if you want to play that game, both Nixon and Reagan were in office twice as long as Carter and had the same number of "9/11"s. And the whole Afghanistan thing got its start under Carter, not to mention problems with Iran. So actually Carter does have a meaningful role in our current issues.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell