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Peter Molyneux: Working For Microsoft Is Like Taking Antidepressants

SmartAboutThings (1951032) writes "Peter Molyneux is one of the most famous personalities in the history of gaming, especially recognized for having created God games Dungeon Keeper, Populous, Black & White, but also the Fable series. After creating the Fable series, Molyneux announced in March 2012 that he will be leaving Lionhead and Microsoft to start another company – 22Cans. During a recent interview, the former Microsoft employee has shared some interesting details regarding the time when he was working over at Redmond. Here's the excerpt from his interview: 'I left Microsoft because I think when you have the ability to be a creative person, you have to take that seriously, and you have to push yourself. And pushing yourself is a lot easier to do if you're in a life raft that has a big hole in the side, and that's what I think indie development is. You're paddling desperately to get where you want to go to, but you're also bailing out. Whereas if you're in a big supertanker of safety, which Microsoft was, then that safety is like an anesthetic. It's like taking antidepressants. The world just feels too comfortable.'"

31 of 164 comments (clear)

  1. Thanks for peptuating by geekoid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the antidepressant myth, jerk.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:Thanks for peptuating by Gaygirlie · · Score: 4, Informative

      To be honest, when I was using anti-depressants the world certainly didn't feel happier or more comfortable or some silly stuff like that. Those drugs didn't make me happy or joyous, they aren't some sort of a magical happy-pill. No, they flatten feelings -- both the bad ones, but also the good ones. Sure, they helped get over the worst times since they flattened out the bad feelings I had, but in the end I stopped taking them because they also flattened out the good things.

      Not that my rant really means anything or has much to do with Molyneux. Just felt like sharing what it was like for me.

    2. Re:Thanks for peptuating by geekoid · · Score: 4, Informative

      Taking anti-depressants were like a heavy weight being lifted off me. I couldn't be happier.

      Err.. I'n not implying they are happy pills, only that I am happy to have a range of emotions.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Thanks for peptuating by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 2

      Thank you! Antidepressants frequently save the lives of depressed people, and are NOT like anesthetics.

      Sure, some people have bad reactions, but they can be invaluable. Some people have been killed by seat belts but you should consider the net effect, not the aberration. What I don't get is the notion that antidepressants can actual cause suicides. Depressed and mentally ill people kill themselves without antidepressants pretty often, so it seems like they just don't work for some people, not like they cause suicide attempts. And of course there are multiple classes of antidepressants, which can not just be lumped together.

      --
      This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
    4. Re:Thanks for peptuating by cyber-vandal · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Before I started taking anti-depressants there weren't any ups. Now there are plenty. There are still downs but they don't stop me from functioning.

    5. Re:Thanks for peptuating by tokencode · · Score: 4, Informative

      It also depends on the individual. Everyone's individual brain/body chemistry is different and people have different reactions to the same dosage and substance. Generalizing reactions to drugs, especially mental health drugs, can be misleading.

    6. Re:Thanks for peptuating by Vanders · · Score: 2

      I took anti-depressants for three years. My first course was Fluoxetine (Prozac to my US cousins): within a week I was a zombie. I would sit and stare at walls, or out of windows, until someone snapped me out of it.

      After a month of this I was moved to Citalopram. This seemed better; there was less staring at walls, certainly. I spent over two years on Citalopram.

      Then one day I stopped. It was kind of an accident; it was Easter weekend, I wasn't paying attention and ran out without a prescription to get more. So I ended up going cold turkey, which is the thing you're really not supposed to do with any SSRI.

      I can tell you now, within three days I felt like I had woken up from a trance. I didn't realise it at the time, but the Citalopram made me feel like I was wrapped in cotton wool and wearing ray-bans. The feeling was exactly like the feeling of a dental aesthetic wearing off, except all over. I hadn't noticed because I'd come from Fluoxetine, which was even worse. So I thought I was onto a good thing with the Citalopram.

      So please don't go around calling it a "myth". For some people, SSRI's really do have that kind of effect. In fact I suspect it's more pre-valiant than people realise, either because of long term use, because people think it's "normal", or because most people come down gradually and never really notice.

      Oh and for all that, I really do believe I was much better off taking the SSRI's at the time than I would have been without them.

    7. Re:Thanks for peptuating by BKX · · Score: 2

      There is some thought that those people are so depressed that they aren't even capable of marshaling the energy to commit suicide. When you give them an antidepressant, they start to become less depressed and but are still depressed enough to be suicidal, only now they have the energy to kill themselves, and so do it.

    8. Re:Thanks for peptuating by SCPaPaJoe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Paxil saved my life. I took it for about 18 months. It allowed me time to learn to deal with my issues. That was 10 years ago. I gradually grew to not need it. Don't let anyone tell you different, for some peoples, antidepressants are a huge factor in the quality of their lives.

  2. Consider the source by jklovanc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's like taking antidepressants.

    Peter Molyneux has probably never taken antidepressants in his life or he would not say this. Antidepressants don't make the "world just feels too comfortable". They make the world feel survivable.

    1. Re:Consider the source by jklovanc · · Score: 2

      What you describe is "situational depression" as you are being depressed by the actual real circumstances. Antidepressants are not usually prescribed in those situations.

    2. Re:Consider the source by geekoid · · Score: 4, Informative
      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    3. Re:Consider the source by jklovanc · · Score: 2

      The problem with depression is not the impending doom but the feeling of powerlessness to effect that doom. In a depressed person's mind not matter what they do they are doomed so why try. Someone paddling and bailing a leaky raft is not a good depression analogy. A better depression analogy would be a person sitting in a sinking raft doing nothing because they think that no matter what they do they will die.

    4. Re:Consider the source by jklovanc · · Score: 2

      Being someone who has depression and anxiety I have different medications for those disorders. That is why they are called antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications. There are a few that cross over but Ativan is an anti-anxiety medication and has nothing to do with depression.

      They also work for anxiety

      Some, manly SSRIs, do work on anxiety but many do not.

      The point is that antidepressants bring back reality and does not make the world feel too comfortable.

  3. Working for MS is like NEEDING to take PAXIL by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Trust me on this one, folks...

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
    1. Re:Working for MS is like NEEDING to take PAXIL by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 2

      I'll take your word for it, if you acknowledge that there are better choices now than Paxil. It has one of the worst side effect profiles of any SSRI/SNRI, including a surprisingly high chance of withdrawal symptoms.

      --
      This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
    2. Re:Working for MS is like NEEDING to take PAXIL by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      at this point, I'd take working for MS over not working at all.

      (yes, out of work and not able to find any; and THAT is truly depressing)

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  4. Well, that sort of explains Windows 8... by Radical+Moderate · · Score: 4, Informative

    ...although I'd say the devs were on something stronger than antidepressants.

    All kidding aside, Win8 does seem to be a product of "Who cares what our customers want, we'll do it our way and they can just suck it", which pretty much defines comfortable complacency.

    --
    Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
    1. Re:Well, that sort of explains Windows 8... by rahvin112 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree that Win8 is a product where Microsoft didn't give a rats ass about what their customers thought of it, but it also has the feel of a product where the developers own input was disregarded. The entire metro interface feels like a design that was created by committee (that never has used it) and forced on the developers by order of management.

      I honestly don't believe developers would have done half of the BS that's in Windows8 if left to their own devices and even if certain features were dictated there would have been settings to reset the behavior to previous standards. That those settings don't exist screams of management dictating behavior.

    2. Re:Well, that sort of explains Windows 8... by FuzzNugget · · Score: 2

      I think it's pretty clear they were certainly not on antidepressants while making Windows 8.

      They were on crack.

    3. Re:Well, that sort of explains Windows 8... by skovnymfe · · Score: 3, Funny

      If developers were left to their own devices, half of it wouldn't be finished (the half that's boring to code) and the rest would be unusable by normal people. Just look at Linux. :)

  5. Antidepressants... by raydobbs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I don't know about working at Microsoft being like being on antidepressants (never worked for them, don't think I'd want to), but I know that whenever I hear him talk about his next greatest game - I want to TAKE antidepressants as I know none of the shit he talks about will actually make it into the game at 1/100th the grandeur he describes. Can we say 'Master of the over-sell and the under-deliver'?

  6. If it weren't for Microsoft... by TeknoHog · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ..we wouldn't be depressed in the first place.

    --
    Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  7. Game designers need to hear, "NO!" by VortexCortex · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Indies don't usually have yes men, or more correctly: We're close enough to the programmers that they can laugh in our faces and tell us what zany ideas AREN'T POSSIBLE given the game's canvas -- the technology itself. A good designer can make amazing stuff happen in limited mediums -- They can make the most of what actually is in the engine, rather than banking on that which requires a complete rewrite.

    Now the crazy thing is that when some insane idea drifts my way either from my own mind or while I'm being part of the idea reactor for the team, I may actually think on it over night and figure out how to pull it off. However, being an implementor means it's my job to say "NO!" not "Yes, but...". "Yes, but... It'll mean taking 8 times more time or money than we have." "Maybe but... we'll have to try out 20 different implementations to figure out if the feature is workable and meanwhile the other devs and content makers will be waiting to see if its possible, or they may wind up scrapping assets if not." -- Give 'em the TL;DR: "No!"

    You get maybe ONE of those "That might be doable" per game, maybe TWO if you're helping make the implementation happen, and have an idea of how to pull it off. Maybe a few more if time or money or a playable release isn't important to you. It's important to try new things, especially for innovation; However, you can innovate yourself right out the other side of, "Yes, but...", into, "Oh it might be possible, but the release schedule better include relocating the asset repo before the sun explodes", and only takes one really bad, "Yes", to make that happen. The bigger the behemoth under you the more wonderful are things that seem they might just be crazy enough to work. This is always folly due to the planning fallacy. No game is ever finished (we just have to stop adding features and polishing at some point), so if you didn't hear or say enough "NO" then you'll be bound to have game designers making wonderful statements which seemed wholly plausible at the outset or individually, but are not actually executable as a whole. You wind up with a game suffering from amputations instead of leveraging what was possible to its fullest. You start to sound just like Peter Molyneux.

    Sometimes it's not the designer's fault that their plans were just too crazy enough NOT to work out. And, sometimes they just push the hype-drive beyond warp 13. The public really can't tell the difference, but you can help prevent the former by learning when to say, "NO!" Saying, "NO", can leave the door open for a better "Yes!". Smaller guys say more "No", and less "Yes". Indies can't afford to entertain as many pie-in-the-sky prosaic Prozac delusions. Great ideas are a dime a dozen, it's really the execution that matters...

  8. WORKING FOR MICROSOFT by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 2, Funny

    Is like sniffing glue, in the alley behind a billionaire's high-rise apartment block.

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
  9. "supertanker safety" by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Funny

    So who forced Molyneaux to take Microsoft's money? I assume he cashed his paychecks.

    People who claim to be "too comfortable" to be creative really get on my nerves.

    And if risky, uncomfortable circumstances are what it takes to make Molyneaux creative, maybe he should try developing games while swimming covered in beef gravy in a pool of sharks. Maybe then he'll actually finish some games again. What a fathead.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:"supertanker safety" by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      Indie game development is stressful enough even in a shark-free pool!

      I guess there's stress and then there's stress.

      I actually know some indie game developers. I've been to the Game Developers Conference (GDC) because I've written music and done sound for indie computer games. For the most part, it seems like the most stressful part of an indie game developers life is the fear that some of his piercings will develop infections.

      Seriously. You know who's got stress? Oil-field roustabouts. Professional money managers. Anesthesiologists.

      Seriously, have you noticed that all indie games are now "Early Access"? How much stress can your job have if you're not even required to actually complete any of your projects because you can sell them to clueless Steam customers?

      Maybe it's stressful to put up a Kickstarter campaign and have to worry that your next Kickstarter campaign will have to be under your girlfriend's name because you screwed over the supporters on the last one (but to be fair, you made some kick-ass concept art and maybe a funny trailer).

      If Molyneaux wants some stress to make him more creative, tell him you'll kick him in the balls if he doesn't actually finish a game sometime before 2018.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  10. Ignorant Bigot by turgid · · Score: 2

    "It's like taking antidepressants. The world just feels too comfortable."

    Spoken like a true ignoramus who's never experienced Depression.

  11. I don't often work for MS, but when I do.... by TiggertheMad · · Score: 4, Funny

    This is the new meme of the week. My turn:

    "Working for Microsoft is like being raped by a drunken billy-goat while falling down a three hundred foot high pile of chocolate chips."

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
  12. Que Sera, Sera by David_Hart · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is not a commentary on Microsoft so much as it is a commentary on Peter Molyneux's personality and work habits.

    Some of us are self-starters and don't need constant crises or deadlines to get work accomplished or be creative. Others require that sense of the world will come to an end to be motivated. Hell for me would be to constantly be in crisis mode. Hell for him is to not be... To each their own...

  13. Re:Idiot. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

    Antidepressants don't make you complacent, they restore the ability to be a functional human being. They are a life preserver for a drowning victim, not a fucking pleasure cruise of comfort.

    Yes indeed. But one of the things that often happens with depressed people is that they figure that everyone else but them is so happy that their biggest problem is getting the stains out of their underwear. I'm not being insensitive about that either, I can assure you.

    Some times just not being desparately unhappy is the best we all can hope for.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.