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Will Cameras Replace Sideview Mirrors On Cars In 2018?
cartechboy (2660665) writes "Just the other day we read about how the Department of Transportation will require all manufacturers to include rearview cameras on all new cars produced after May 1, 2018. But there's something else auto manufacturers are pushing for, the ability to replace sideview mirrors with cameras in 2018. Tesla in particular is pushing for this to happen as traditional mirrors are bulky, and not very aerodynamic. That lump of plastic can cause surprising amounts of drag on an otherwise smooth car body. Camera units are much smaller and can be made streamlined, or even mounted nearly flush with the body, thus reducing aerodynamic drag. The idea has been around since the 1990s, and many concept cars have used cameras instead of sideview mirrors for years. But how will NHTSA respond? Is it finally time to ditch the sideview mirror?"
When you see the cost of replacing a mirror, it'd be cheaper to have a camera and a 7" screen inside.
On the other hand, night vision would suffer from having a screen on.
And I know more than one person who has saved their cars' doors by having the mirror remind them how close they really were to that post...
What about ditching the windshield and replacing it with a 4k HD screen? Then you can embed the driver lower-down and deep inside a protective hardened shell. A no-glass car all around.
It might happen, if they can implement it in a way the duplicates the functionality and ease of use of a mirror. The reason it might happen: reduction in drag to improve the manufacturer's chances of meeting the EPA Corporate Average Fuel Economy requirements.
Even if you put the screen up by the window, with a mirror you can always move your head a bit to get a bit more visual context. With a camera and screen, that doesn't work. Unless they also put in head tracking, or use a 3d screen.
So why do I need a camera? This is a classic case of over-engineering a simple, solved problem. Rear and side view mirrors have an extremely low failure rate, and require no power.
Sideview mirrors let you see places a rearview camera won't.
That doesn't make sense at all.
You can point a camera anywhere you want, they'd be far more versatile than mirrors, and car makers will be certain to take advantage of that. You'll most likely get multiple cameras, stitched views, and more coverage, not less
I'd be happy just to get a good rearview camera on my motorbike. All I get to see in the mirrors are my elbows...
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
I always wondered why aircraft don't have embedded cameras all around. One to observe the landing gear, one pointed at the tail rudder, one for each engine, one for the ailerons/flaps etc. No more guessing what is going on based on instrumentation and sending a crewman to look out the window to see if he can spot the problem. Easier to detect icing, snow load on the wing while on the runway, etc.
A car is a place I value simplicity and reliability over features. If a camera fails on the road, people can die.
Meh, just get rid of mirrors altogether. Far too many drivers don't bother using them anyway.
Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
The only reason you have to move your head around with a side mirror is because they are placed very close to where your peripheral vision ends. Consequently, if you're sitting facing forward, for a mirror to show the region between where the rearview mirror's view ends (almost straight back) to where your peripheral vision picks up (almost straight to the side), it has to have a very large field of view.
With a camera, you have the option of mounting it at the front corners of the car instead of by the driver, The display can still be by the driver, but the camera can be way in front. It can then show the same area using a much smaller field of view. The blind spot will still be there, but it'll be pushed out to 2-3 lanes away, making it irrelevant.
If I think there might be something just out of my field of view in a mirror, I can lean slightly to change the angle. That doesn't work with cameras. Not necessarily a problem, but the engineers will need to find a way to cover all of the necessary angles without taking up too much space on the dashboard. I absolutely do not want to hit any buttons to pan the camera while driving.
That's all I'm looking at, anyway.
The advantage of side view mirrors from a situational awareness perspective is that you can check the entire side of your car from front to back very quickly because the whole view is there. Blind spot indicators solve the problem of blind spots (mostly..). Side view mirrors may take away from aerodynamics but they're a very convenient place to look.
A camera image could be nice (night vision, variable view angle, etc), but it seems a downgrade from a safety perspective to use a center console display because it causes you to look away from the side of the car.
Maybe they'd mount mirror-size displays in the dash against the doors? Sounds kind of expensive for any usable resolution and brightness and maybe even distracting, especially at night. Perhaps the displays could have a secondary function or overlay (distance to largest and maybe bonus points for being hackable to display some other display.
Displaying a heads-up type display on the windshield? Some kind of perspective-corrected or floats-outside-the-car-like-a-real-mirror image on the side windows (useless if the windows are rolled down, though).
A rearview mirror option might not be a bad idea because it would then be a complete "behind you" image, but how big could it be without making the rearview mirror into a head-injury risk?
The proposal is to have cameras in place of the side mirrors, not to use the rearview in place of side mirrors.
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You can have a wide-angle projection sort of like those convex mirrors on large truck mirrors, which only take a little experience to use properly. This would show all areas at a glance with no field of view limitation.
You could also imagine a virtual-reality approach which at the limit could provide a virtual mirror in the location you expect, reacting to the driver's head position to act like a mirror while actually being drawn by a heads-up-display projector and an external camera. I wonder if you could get the benefit of a huge truck mirror without the forward-looking blind-spot that it usually creates.
In a tight economy, side cameras will only sell if they are a. manditory on all new models, or. b. not marked up at the same exorbitant rate as side mirrors.
Actually, one of the reasons for having cameras is that they can boost fuel economy. With CAFE requirements that means that manufacturers can sell more SUVs and stay under the limits. So, there is plenty of incentive to put reasonably-priced cameras on cars, if not make them standard.
I agree that field of vision is not an issue (or at least one that can be easily fixed). However depth of vision is a problem. Mirrors preserve depth perception 2D screens do not. Not being able to tell how close a car is in a wing mirror when overtaking is dangerous and will lead to accidents. You can't even judge from image size since camera's fields of view and screen sizes will vary between car models.
Just as soon as camera/screen pairs have the parallax of a mirror and the dynamic range approaching anywhere near reality.
In other words, not for a long time.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
If I think there might be something just out of my field of view in a mirror, I can lean slightly to change the angle
And with the cameras, you could move them, rather than moving your head.
I absolutely do not want to hit any buttons to pan the camera while driving.
But swinging your head wildly because your mirrors are poorly set is a good thing? They could make the camera screens mimic mirrors, but that would add complexity and cost for a few people who can't be bothered to adjust a camera if they want to see where it isn't pointed.
I think they should replace the rear-view mirror with a 180 degree "mirror" that's a real-time composite of around the car, like a convex rearview mirror, but without pillar reflections and such in the way. That's the closest to today's operation that makes sense to me. And with that, you'll *never* have something you need to move your head for.
Learn to love Alaska
You can point a camera anywhere you want, they'd be far more versatile than mirrors, ... You'll most likely get multiple cameras, stitched views, and more coverage, not less
Really? I've had a stitched view for over a decade now. (PDF) It takes no power or extra equipment and I can see what's in the adjacent lanes behind me.
True, I have to glance at one non-adjacent sensor to another, but then again the road is still visible around me -- if something happens in front I already have a slight visual and can immediately lock and focus on it. (Then again, in high school driving class they taught us to continually scan our surrounding, check our mirrors, as well as maintain a "space cushion" around the car.)
Oh, and a spot of dirt or water (wherever might THAT come from?) will obscure that entire mirror as opposed to just being an inconvenience.
Ever had to scrape off a mirror from the accumulated snow / ice / fog? THAT'll be easy to do on the camera lens as well, I'm sure.
Then again there's be some idiot that will reconnect the camera inputs to watch TV, never mind being slightly night-blind from the always-on slight blue glow from the camera display. Or did you want to use B/W LCDs?
Mandate this in all new cars? Well if that's what you want. Personally I'll be out buying a glass cutting kit and a lot of superglue while re-positioning the camera to get an upskirt picture of the car next to me.
If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
I think they should replace the rear-view mirror with a 180 degree "mirror" that's a real-time composite of around the car, like a convex rearview mirror, but without pillar reflections and such in the way. That's the closest to today's operation that makes sense to me. And with that, you'll *never* have something you need to move your head for.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner. That's exactly what we should have. Also, a smart system could sense when any of those cameras stopped operating, and the others could fill in at least temporarily to cover the critical spots.
You're greatly exaggerating with "swinging your head wildly" in response to the OP's post. I learned to drive with and always have my mirrors splayed out to cover my blind spots rather than the end of my own car (as is recommended by many driving experts). However, given the size of the mirrors, I still have a tiny blind spot that's the perfect fit for a motorcycle who's riding too close to my lane and hugging my rear quarter panel. A slight tilt of my head and I can clear that spot. It's not necessary when regularly scanning the road to keep track of traffic, but I always do it before I change lanes just in case.
Contrast that with 90% of folks who have their mirrors turned to watch their own gas caps, and have to fully turn their heads to check their much larger blind spots before changing lanes. That's the "swinging wildly" bit that's more dangerous.
I don't have any issues with your 180 degree mirror idea, other than that it would take time to adapt to it. Drivers that start with it would likely be fine.
It doesn't hurt to be nice.
Volvo blind spot system is optical, not radar. The radar panel is on the front grill for collision avoidance and distance sensing cruise control, which does not use lasers. The parking sensors are ultrasonic.
And you know you can mute bands on the V1, right?
Windshields also. They can see outside with the cameras going to their iPhone, which is what they are looking at anyway while the driver is texting.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Exactly, I just drive with my Oculus on and have full visibility. When Zuckerburg is elected president (after everyone on Facebook finds that all of their friends of have posts saying they are voting for him) and mandates an Oculus for every driver, you guys are going to love seeing everywhere.
Well, until the hackers start overlaying the Second Life furry content. But that only happens about every other day.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I absolutely do not want to hit any buttons to pan the camera while driving.
Let's make the steering wheel itself surround a giant screen showing everything behind you then, with an additional "pannable" view as a heads-up display projected on the windshield.
If you want to TURN you rotate the wheel.
If you want to pan the camera, you tilt one side of the steering wheel forward and the other side backward, vice-versa.
If it comes down to that, I'm selling my car and getting an M1 Abrams. That way I don't have to check my mirrors before I change lanes.
This idea is dumb and you should feel dumb for even considering it.
Back in the 90's people started playing with cheap geo metros to see just how much mileage they could get (because 54mpg just sucks). They took of outside mirrors in a gas saving effort and gained around 3-4mpg. Course on a tahoe it might be 0.3 mpg, a civic 1.3mpg, it all depends on the weight and original mileage. They also put on smaller (narrower) tires, smaller alternators (or removed them altogether) and took out weight (door panels, spare tires).
Agree ... do not want. One more thing to go wrong, and then you're looking at an expensive repair rather than something you could take care of yourself, just to keep the car legal.
I'd probably have an easier time replacing a camera than may side mirrors.
Besides, I had the driver side mirror taken out by a deer, and it was over a hundred to replace! Now consider how many vehicles on the road today have those fancy turn signals on their side mirrors, that's gotta raise the price a bit.
Plus people are used to looking over there to see what's behind them, it could cause all kinds of distraction trying to switch the dashboard TV set between navigation mode and rear view mode. Keep focused on getting the weight of the battery pack down instead.
1. Reducing the drag would probably save more fuel than reducing battery weight(unless you REALLY reduce that weight).
2. The views replacing the side mirrors would probably be on dedicated panels that are active at all times while driving.
I don't read AC A human right
Try to collect it.
The change in view with the change in angle of incidence is one the *problems* with existing mirrors. A camera could be permanently fixed to view exactly the right area, whereas mirrors need to be properly adjusted for each driver, and don't work correctly if you move your head even a little.
Plus it's video -- you can take multiple images and stitch them together (or display multiple views in a single location, as is common in side mirrors in larger vehicles) and you're not limited to the vantage point of the traditional mirror. For example, a combination of a side-rear looking camera from near the driver's position and a side-looking camera from near the back of the car -- and both could be mounted up high, rather than below the window line -- would provide better field-of-view than virtually any existing side view mirror.
Plus no reflected headlights/sun. Heck, with high camera mounting points you can significantly reduce the possibility even of shining a headlight into the camera, let alone blinding the driver.
And of course once you've put a sensor pod on the side of the car and a display in the dash, adding things like ultrasonic proximity detection become much cheaper and easier to integrate into existing driving methodologies.
You could also imagine a virtual-reality approach which at the limit could provide a virtual mirror in the location you expect,
An array of ultra-sound sensors around the car, compiled into a simple birds-eye-view display. Like a storm radar image. You'd see at a glance the car (or motorbike) in your blindspot. Dramatically improved situational awareness.
You'd then only need mirrors (or cameras) to see things beyond the range of the sensors, which may make side-mirrors redundant. A single wide-angle view from the back.
Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.