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Blender Foundation Video Taken Down On YouTube For Copyright Violation

An anonymous reader writes "As if the automated take downs on Youtube weren't already bad enough, today fans of the popular open source 3D software Blender were greeted by a copyright take down notice for their third open movie, Sintel, despite it being released under a Creative Commons license: 'This video contains content from Sony Pictures Movies & Shows, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.' It is believed that the takedown was a result of Sony Electronics adding Sintel to their official 4k demo pool."

306 comments

  1. Help fund next blender open movie by fxbar · · Score: 5, Informative

    https://cloud.blender.org/goos... For only 224 USD you can be in the movies credits. Others have to work their ass off to get into a movies credits, so if your name is not too offending to anybody this is a done deal ;-) Of course there are also cheaper deals.

    1. Re:Help fund next blender open movie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Meh... I'm in the credits of a news show every damned week. It's not all it's cracked up to be.

    2. Re:Help fund next blender open movie by fxbar · · Score: 2

      Tell them Blender Institute is the new secret SuperPAC, but pssst, they should not tell anybody, it's secret. Just write checks for some millions, the rest is done by "the institute".

    3. Re:Help fund next blender open movie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You're telling me. I got a shout-out in a recent obituary, and people are all, like, "why are you trying to make this all about you?"

    4. Re:Help fund next blender open movie by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Funny

      The name of my non-profit is "Sony Sucks, Ass."

      You think that would be OK?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:Help fund next blender open movie by camg188 · · Score: 4, Funny

      No, because you seem to be calling me an ass. Remove the comma and all is well.

    6. Re:Help fund next blender open movie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The movie made me sad :(

      *Spoiler alert* Girl kills her pet in a case of mistaken identity.
      Why would I want to watch that? What's the point?

    7. Re:Help fund next blender open movie by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      OK, Metallica has incredibly awful music. I guess I should just go and make a few copies for myself!

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    8. Re:Help fund next blender open movie by InPursuitOfTruth · · Score: 1

      The new Sony appeal process. https://www.youtube.com/user/s...

    9. Re:Help fund next blender open movie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stupid logic is stupid.

  2. Sony by Richy_T · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Nuff said.

    1. Re:Sony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Every time I start to think that maybe things are better and it is okay to purchase a playstation they do this. So I do not want to support MS nor Sony, and I do not like any of the games on the Nintendo. Until there are options nobody gets my money but the greedy bankers. oh... damnit!

    2. Re:Sony by Richy_T · · Score: 2

      PC gaming FTW.

    3. Re:Sony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He said he didn't want to support MS, unless you are honestly suggesting that Linux or Mac are viable gaming platforms.

    4. Re:Sony by Terrasque · · Score: 1

      So I do not want to support MS nor Sony, and I do not like any of the games on the Nintendo.

      Join us

      --
      It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
    5. Re:Sony by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      ReactOS, dude.

      No, seriously, good point. Though it's a lot easier to not support MS through Windows than X-Box IYSWIM.

    6. Re:Sony by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Sony

      Nuff said.

      Not quite enough said.

      What is the probability of them ever improving to the point of being worth interacting with (except at the level of "it's got a Sony badge - excluded from consideration"?

      And, how many years of sustained non-evil behaviour would they require to come back into any degree of consideration?

      (FWIW, I'd reckon the answers to be "near zero", and at least 5 years. Yes, I do hope this sort of public discussion adversely affects Sony's share price - it's the only language they understand.)

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  3. Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ContentID and the secret deals Google has made with industry organizations have made getting anything on Youtube impossible.

    1. Re:Stop using Youtube by calzones · · Score: 3, Insightful

      YouTube was great until Google acquired them. Every "enhancement" and change they make drags it down further.

      Of course, without Google, YouTube might not still be around otoh. But the point of YouTube was to decentralize video sharing and take it out of the hands of corporate media giants. Instead, the giants are increasing their stranglehold on YouTube and making it unfeasible for any old Joe to get a tiny kickback for content they upload, as well as crowding out all other competing content.

      Meanwhile, Google mandates that people use YouTube with their real name and make it exceedingly difficult to manage multiple accounts.

      Fuck em.

      --
      Asking people to think is like asking them to buy you a new car
    2. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the point of Youtube was decentralizatoon why have they also stored things on centralized servers?

    3. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Every "enhancement" and change they make drags it down further.

      I call bullshit on this one. Since Youtube was taken over by Google, server speed has increased immensely, they've moved to HD, they've removed time limits on videos, they've allowed live streaming of shows, they've given away hundreds of millions of dollars through the partnership program they introduced (including many shows that are simply vlogs)... Et cetera.

      However, the linking of Google Plus to Youtube does indeed suck.

    4. Re:Stop using Youtube by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 5, Insightful

      YouTube was great until Google acquired them. Every "enhancement" and change they make drags it down further.

      I don't agree with your opinion, but really this has little to do with the issue at hand.

      It's the DMCA takedown laws that allow this.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    5. Re:Stop using Youtube by currently_awake · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There needs to be financial penalties for false takedown notices. Right now there is no cost in automated sending of takedown notices.

    6. Re:Stop using Youtube by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Google trying to push everyone onto G+ was my reason to throw YouTube in the crapper... and the only reason why I even looked for other services, which turned out to be the best move I ever made concerning my online viewing habits.

      So, in a twisted kind of way, I think I have to thank Google for trying to push G+ onto their YouTube users. Without, we probably would never have bothered to learn that there's other, and better, ways to get your daily dose of videos.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:Stop using Youtube by calzones · · Score: 2

      server speed has increased immensely

      I never noticed a problem before Google. Even if it were, video is cacheable and buffer-able and I'd prefer to wait if it's the condition for unencumbered content

      they've moved to HD

      I think this would have happened regardless. Possibly it would have been YouTube's revenue model... to upload or consume HD, you have to pay in some way.

      they've removed time limits on videos

      I think this would have been similar to the HD situation and would have happened regardless.

      they've allowed live streaming of shows

      Meh. I don't care much about live streaming. Regardless, the average Joe isn't doing this, it's mostly people with deeper pockets.

      they've given away hundreds of millions of dollars through the partnership program they introduced (including many shows that are simply vlogs)

      Revenue sharing is only right. You shouldn't credit Google for making money off the content and then sharing some of that revenue with the people that upload it. Because if they didn't, there would be torches and pitchforks headed toward Mountain View. What does suck, though, is their implementation. Upload original content that happens to have some copyrighted song in the background and you don't get a penny. Sorry, but that's just wrong, wrong, wrong.

      --
      Asking people to think is like asking them to buy you a new car
    8. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Have you used YouTube lately? It used to be jammed with 1 hit wonders, spam and viral crap. Now YouTube is rewarding and encouraging people to basicly start their own TV show. Of those that are doing so the percentage of intelligent and usefull shows is WAY higher than you find on any TV network, none of it would have happened without Google to back it up.

    9. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not exactly.

      Because of multiple lawsuits and threats of lawsuits from the recording industry, Google has struck this deal with major stakeholders whereby they can basically bypass what limited due process exists in the DMCA and takedown videos on a whim.

      You have no recourse under this system because the DMCA isn't being invoked by these media companies where there is an ability to file a DMCA counter-notice and sue for damages for false copyright assertions.

    10. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      There are, but conveniently enough you have to file your own suit against them rather than the government enforcing it.

    11. Re:Stop using Youtube by calzones · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Google fights authority for lots of things. In this case, they happily worked on non-trivial content-tracking and content-scanning code and subsequently handed over the keys to the YouTube kingdom to the MAFIAA.

      Why? Because Big Content is now also distributed on YouTube. Google gets a piece of that action. That wouldn't have happened if Google hadn't agreed to clamp down on even the most borderline and questionable copyright claims possible.

      Here's an example: my company wrote, directed, filmed, and edited a music video for a lesser known artist who is a friend. We did it pro bono because he is a friend. We posted the video to YouTube and he started using it successfully to promote himself and get more appearances. He's not making any money, but he is increasing his exposure and the hope is someday it will help him get somewhere. In the meantime, the video is garnering views on YouTube and we had it set to monetize. Our aim was to offset our investment even in the most minor way possible. The medium sized publishing company that he used to distribute his track turns out is owned by a bigger publishing company. That bigger company claimed they owned the copyright on the video. Google happily revoked our right to monetize it and gave us the option to take it down or let the bigger company monetize it. There's no one you can actually talk to at Google to dispute these things and it's all automated and played according to rules designed solely to favor the big content companies that revenue share with Google for hosting their commercial YouTube channels.

      Since the publishing company didn't enter into any contract with us to produce a video, we don't stand a chance to get any money. We can take down the video and thus hurt our friend, or we can demand he pay us, which also hurts him, or we can leave it there and the publishing company, which didn't spend a SINGLE DIME to either write, record or produce the track (they just distribute it, and their reward is a cut of the sales), and which didn't spend a SINGLE DIME to write, record, or produce the video... just gets to sit back and monetize the video. It's peanuts to them. Shit, it's peanuts to us and wouldn't undo the time and money we put into the video. BUT IT'S THE FUCKING PRINCIPLE!

      All thanks to Google buying YouTube and then not only not fighting the fight it should have fought, but actually working intentionally to hand it all over to the bad guys.

      --
      Asking people to think is like asking them to buy you a new car
    12. Re:Stop using Youtube by calzones · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Sorry, to clarify: our friend has even spoken with the publishing company. They say they have no control over it. Google just automatically flags content that includes songs that are in the database as being owned by different publishers. Short of paying to get lawyers involved, and everyone loses except the lawyers if that happens, there is no way to alter this automated madness!

      --
      Asking people to think is like asking them to buy you a new car
    13. Re:Stop using Youtube by lonOtter · · Score: 1, Insightful

      But it's because the DMCA takedowns exist that these automated systems exist.

      --
      [End Of Line]
    14. Re:Stop using Youtube by lonOtter · · Score: 1

      Other than the fact that Google has these crappy copyright policies to begin with?

      --
      [End Of Line]
    15. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Bullshit, and you have exactly ZERO evidence of your Google Hate.

      Respectfully, that statement makes no sense.

    16. Re:Stop using Youtube by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's the DMCA takedown laws that allow this.

      I don't think that's accurate. The DMCA creates a 'safe haven' for content sites like Youtube, it essentially says, "if you takedown when someone tells you that their content is on your website, then you can't be sued." Prior to the DMCA, sites could be sued for any comment posted on their website, and have a good chance of losing (I don't know any case of this happening before the 1998, if someone else knows, that would be interesting).

      The case here is that the studios have made an agreement with Google: they don't have to file a DMCA takedown request at all. They tell Google they don't like it, and they have two options: take all ad profits from the content, or have it taken down. "Take all ad profits from the content" is definitely not part of the DMCA, that's something extra Google came up with (I presume, maybe it was a studio idea).

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    17. Re:Stop using Youtube by russotto · · Score: 2

      Prior to the DMCA, sites could be sued for any comment posted on their website, and have a good chance of losing (I don't know any case of this happening before the 1998, if someone else knows, that would be interesting).

      In fact, the opposite was the case. You were not liable for copyrighted content posted by others. The DMCA didn't change that, but created a much stronger safe harbor which you lose by not obeying the DMCAs takedown provision, thus providing a strong incentive to follow those takedown provisions. A sneaky end-run around the First Amendment; you don't HAVE to obey the whims of those who send takedown letters, but in practice the incentive is overwhelming.

    18. Re:Stop using Youtube by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      In fact, the opposite was the case. You were not liable for copyrighted content posted by others.

      Are you sure about that? Do you have a source or something?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    19. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes there is... use Vimeo or something else that's not youtube!

    20. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your account is in good standing and your video was mis-identified there is an appeal process. It's free and it protects users who consistently upload videos that follow the rules.

    21. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This isn't a problem with Google this is a problem with you, your friend and his publisher. They added the video to the list of media they owned, did they do that because your friend told them they could? Did they do it without his knowlege? What does his contract with the publisher say, they very well may own the copyright to that video now. As far as Google is concerned one person owns that video and the publishing company is a more convincing argument than 'the guys who filmed and editied it for free.' Can the guy who did the mixing for the latest pop album claim that he owns the songs because he made it? Media production is not about what is right or wrong its about following the letter of the law through its nightmarish fractal itterations.

    22. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We'd all benefit from knowing which publishing company this is.

    23. Re:Stop using Youtube by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      No, what the DMCA did was reverse the burden of proof from the accuser to the accused. The "safe harbor" provision was a marketing ploy to sell the law.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    24. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Forget financial - let's set copyright penalties.

      False takedown claim, claimant's copyright that was reportedly infringed immediately turned over to public domain, and can NEVER be returned to claimants.
      This would apply even if the claimant is just a front company hired to look for violations, they would need to be bonded and insured for billions in losses.

    25. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the appeal process is also automated. Worse still, the appeal goes directly to the person/company who laid the original complaint, and they get to decide if they want to change their mind, do you think that will happen?

    26. Re:Stop using Youtube by lonOtter · · Score: 1

      A video that contains copyrighted music that was made by some one else is by definition not "original content."

      False dichotomy. A video can contain both original content and content that was made by others.

      --
      [End Of Line]
    27. Re:Stop using Youtube by lonOtter · · Score: 2

      Which is broken by design, since they don't need to file suit to get the content removed to begin with, which, at the very least, they should. Instead, they get to fire off takedown notices, which websites have to comply with if they want safe harbor, with impunity, or at least until someone challenges them in court, but even then, it's unlikely they'll actually get in real trouble due to the way the DMCA was written.

      Also, if you file suit against them, it would be the government that would decide the result and enforce it; that's what courts are.

      --
      [End Of Line]
    28. Re:Stop using Youtube by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      No, what the DMCA did was reverse the burden of proof from the accuser to the accused. The "safe harbor" provision was a marketing ploy to sell the law.

      I'm not sure this is accurate, the DMCA merely protects the hosting service from liability. It has nothing to do with burden of proof. The hosting service doesn't need to remove the content, but then they are liable to defend it in court.

      The hosting company needs to notify the person who uploaded the content, and the person who uploaded it can respond without needing proof, merely promising that they own the content (or have it licensed or whatever). After that (and IMO an unreasonably long delay), it must either go to court where proof is required as normal, or if the accuser doesn't respond the content goes back online.

      Of course, the hosting company doesn't need to put it back up, that is their choice. And if the hosting company has a good relationship with the accuser, they might take it down just because they are friends, like Google and Sony. Which seems to be what happened here, it doesn't like there was a DMCA takedown notice at all.

      So really the DMCA doesn't apply here.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    29. Re:Stop using Youtube by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      The hosting service doesn't need to remove the content, but then they are liable to defend it in court.

      That is precisely the problem. The accuser should pay all costs, and the video should stay up until the case is closed. Unfortunately a hosting company has little to gain from defending the client's rights, so, down it comes. The internet needs to be more P2P to make the removal of content more difficult.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    30. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Huh? How would that work in this case, exactly? Sony makes a false claim, and Sintel gets put in the public domain??

    31. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no one you can actually talk to at Google to dispute these things

      There's your problem and your fault. You are trying to talk to them. Make sure your friend gets the statement from the publishing company in writing. Get together and send a registered letter to whatever is Google's official snail mail address. Tell them that you have the copyrights and that by distributing it without paying you they are in breach of law and that you demand that they start sending you the royalties.

      If they continue to distribute after that without paying, then you can start to talk about penalties and willful damages and so getting a lawyer may actually become worthwhile.

    32. Re:Stop using Youtube by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The accuser should pay all costs, and the video should stay up until the case is closed.

      Why?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    33. Re:Stop using Youtube by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Innocent until proven guilty, that's why...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    34. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In a comment arguing that Google is handing the keys to the bad guys, it's incredibly poor wording to start with "Google fights authority for lots of things."
      Also, if you're contracting a publishing company to distribute media without reading and understanding the contract you're signing, you're an idiot.

    35. Re:Stop using Youtube by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Interesting.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    36. Re:Stop using Youtube by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't be

      Supposed to be the norm

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    37. Re:Stop using Youtube by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've had similar experiences. Three times I've invoked the wrath of the youtube content ID system.

      The first I'll let them have: The video was clear infringement, albeit of a video that the copyright holder at the time refused to publish. A certain very early Disney cartoon that cast their beloved Micky in a rather bad light. I used it to demonstrate some video restoration techniques.

      The second was clear fair use. I used about thirty seconds of footage from a twenty-minute cartoon, with dubbed-over music, in order to poke fun at certain visual elements. No matter. Interestingly, this wasn't automated: The copyright holder for the cartoon actually had someone send a takedown notice. I'm guessing I offended an executive.

      The third one was inexcusable: Content-ID picked up the infringement of audio, but for music that was so ancient (Any older and it'd be on wax cylinder!) as to be public domain even in the US. I looked into it - a collecter's society had claimed the rights to it, even though the composer was dead more than seventy years ago. I attempted to appeal this one, but there just isn't an appeal option. There's nothing you can use. I tried three times to contact an actual human at youtube to explain the situation, but never even got a reply. If it's a DMCA takedown (As in case two) you can file a counterclaim, but this was Content-ID: Its word is final and beyond contest.

    38. Re:Stop using Youtube by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Yet the search engine division refuses to penalise pirate sites or remove them from the rankings, and even when forced to by law they put up the DMCA informational notice complete with the removed links as a soft of 'fuck you' to the copyright holder.

      There's clearly a different approach to copyright in different divisions.

    39. Re:Stop using Youtube by Sique · · Score: 1
      You know that copyright itself is not criminal law? It's civil law, and there the concept of "guilt" in a criminal sense doesn't exist. There is damage, and there is the damaged party, and if the damaged party can show they lost something (money, value, integrity), they are entitled the other party stopping whatever caused the damage and compensation for the losses. And for that, preponderance of evidence is sufficient. All you have to show is that you lost something and that the action (or non-action, presence, absence, whatever) of someone else caused you to lose it.

      Yes, if there is sufficient evidence that the damage will increase if the other party is allowed to continue, the damaged party is even entitled to demand from the damaging party to immediately stop whatever they are up to, before things are settled in court.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    40. Re:Stop using Youtube by calzones · · Score: 2

      I honestly thought of doing something along those lines. But we're talking pennies barely worth small claims court here (going by what Google normally pays out for YT revenue sharing). And at the end of the day, such a suit might even end up dismissed with a simple "well, you should have read the fine print and not posted the video" or some such, because it's true, my company doesn't own the audio content, my friend does and he has a contract with the publishing company so I assume they would argue they are protecting his rights by adding his music to the database. Best case scenario we'd get some fraction of the revenue sharing, the publishing company gets another fraction and my friend gets nothing because it's not enough to undo the by operational costs.

      Alas, I have too many other things to worry about and no good lawyer friends. Its not worth it so I just live with that chip on my shoulder but move on.

      --
      Asking people to think is like asking them to buy you a new car
    41. Re:Stop using Youtube by calzones · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that was unclear... I meant to say that Google fights authority for a lot of things, but not this, because in this case, they have a stake in not fighting it. So it's foolhardy to look at Google and think they are a champion for just causes, which is how they first looked to most people in the earlier days.

      I didn't sign the contract. I was just doing a favor. The point of the post is to show how the principle of the system is flawed and stacked against the common person, which is what YouTube was originally all about.

      Now it's all big content on there that drives the show. Common person content is only still allowed there as a way to make it seem like it's still the same youtube and maintain it's original attraction. Lies. As soon as any such content actually garners enough eyeballs on a regular basis, a bigger content company buys them out.

      --
      Asking people to think is like asking them to buy you a new car
    42. Re:Stop using Youtube by calzones · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This. The Content-ID thing. A travesty.

      At the very least there should be an accountable human behind any DMCA takedown request (which even then would be terribly flawed for all the other arguments pointed out by others).

      --
      Asking people to think is like asking them to buy you a new car
    43. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BTW, Google is a major sponsor of Blender development through its Summer of Code program.

      So without Google, many of the features in Blender might not exist either.

    44. Re:Stop using Youtube by calzones · · Score: 1

      Let's not forget that's the hubris and presumptuousness that is required to assume that a video is worthless except for the copyrighted audio track within.
      At the very least, Google's Content-ID system should split the revenue sharing 50-50 between the Content ID owner the owner of the video. Neither could exist without the other.

      While a record company may claim that no one would watch the video were it not for the soundtrack (and this does happen a lot on YouTube, where people just upload a song and add a photo of the album cover or something), the reverse is just as often true: people watch a video for the video and in the process learn about a song, or are further exposed to it (and that's the point of radio, after all. the more you get exposed to a song the more likely you are to end up wanting to buy it).

      --
      Asking people to think is like asking them to buy you a new car
    45. Re:Stop using Youtube by imunfair · · Score: 1

      I deal with mostly video game content on YouTube, but the Content ID system is the same across the board. The publisher is either lying or incompetent, because they definitely can release claims on content, even if it's a match. YouTube even has one match type (I don't know why it isn't default) that just notifies the claimant of detected matches so they can manually screen for validity and claim them.

      If you bother the publisher enough maybe a manager will tell some peon that knows what they're doing to fix it.

    46. Re:Stop using Youtube by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 2

      I feel your pain, but I'm not sure the people complaining in this thread understand the sheer size of YouTube. It's literally the entire worlds video repository. There are over 100 hours of video uploaded every minute. Over 100 hours! Even if YouTube employed an entire army of specialised copyright lawyers trained in the international nuances of fair use, there's no possible way the enormous number of disputes could ever be mediated in a fair way.

      When you upload to YouTube, you get a lot of stuff for free, but you don't have to use them. You could host the video yourself and then the disputes would come to you directly instead of being auto-resolved by a machine. If you aren't willing to pay the costs of doing that, then you need to accept the consequences of YouTube's razor-thin profit margins and vast economies of scale.

    47. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the evolution of computing and internet and the falling prices of the two would mean YouTube getting HD and unlimited length movies anyway, I don't believe you can't directly credit Google with providing those two.

    48. Re:Stop using Youtube by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Perhaps this is the problem: Youtube has just become too big and too important. It's not just a hosting service - it's also by far the world's most influential video recormendation engine. A clip uploaded on youtube can go viral, the same clip uploaded anywhere else will remain in obscurity.

    49. Re:Stop using Youtube by Lord+Crc · · Score: 1

      Content-ID picked up the infringement of audio, but for music that was so ancient (Any older and it'd be on wax cylinder!) as to be public domain even in the US. I looked into it - a collecter's society had claimed the rights to it, even though the composer was dead more than seventy years ago

      How old was the recording you used? The song/tune itself can be public domain due to age, but the performance/recording will still be protected by copyright if it was made recently.

    50. Re:Stop using Youtube by Jupix · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Since Youtube was taken over by Google, server speed has increased immensely, they've moved to HD, they've removed time limits on videos, they've allowed live streaming of shows, they've given away hundreds of millions of dollars through the partnership program they introduced (including many shows that are simply vlogs)... Et cetera.

      I have a rather more cynical view of that. Better latency, HD, longer videos and live streaming are basically all just effects of one good thing, better servers. That's probably the only good thing that Google has given to Youtube.

      I don't count the partnership program as good. Basically it radically influences channel content for the worse. Either it introduces money, which ruins everything*, or it introduces legal protection from U.S. entities which makes for some pretty bland content**.

      * I'm a viewer of some channels that thrive on the partnership program (Drive Network and TotalBiscuit for example) and they all do worse and worse the more money is involved. Instead of being fueled by passion they are fueled by ratings and money. Which is what utterly killed Hollywood and Television for me and got me into Youtube in the first place. Examples from the Drive Network: the three-minute car reviews, which are blatantly not at home on that channel, and the product placement (like Pirelli) / advertisement videos that pop up every once in a while. Examples from TB: where to even begin. Makes videos based solely on the highest ratings, to the point where it comes close to ruining his personal life. Adjusts video content and kills off series based on how much revenue they bring in and not based on what he enjoys playing/shooting, which blatantly shows in his commentary.

      ** Partnership channels are pretty strictly regulated in regards to what they can show in their videos. They are trying to dodge takedown requests like this one and copyright strikes which may stop their cash intake. So... anything remotely inflammatory or controversial that could be in any way interpreted as slander, copyright infringement, etc... just won't appear on a channel like this any more.

      Also: the GP was right about the ridiculous "updates". They're almost all terrible. The layout changes, the default setting changes, the player changes... Just the facts that buffering still doesn't work, quality settings were broken for months, subscriptions break all the time, are all great examples of the incompetency of the devs or the misguided priorities over there. Youtube is constantly becoming more corporate, better at generating revenue, and worse for the users. And users hate it more all the time and only use it because hardly anyone could ever afford to make a better Youtube clone.

      The greatest thing Youtube has introduced lately is HTML5 compatibility and I have complete confidence Youtube could've and would've implemented that without Google's "help".

    51. Re:Stop using Youtube by Raenex · · Score: 1

      I didn't sign the contract. I was just doing a favor.

      This is entirely the problem. On one hand you say you were just doing a friend a favor, on the other hand you enabled advertisements for the video. Now it isn't just a pro bono favor anymore. You say you were just trying to recoup expenses, but what happens if the video goes viral? Who gets the money then?

      Since your friend is in business and so are you, it's best to get these things worked out in advance, especially when it comes to ownership and money.

    52. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With regard to your second point - "fair use" is not a useful concept, a priori, when publishing. "Fair use" is not permission to reuse, merely it is a defence, in court, that you could use to defend a claim of copyright infringement. Whether you think something is "fair use" or not is irrelevant. It is what a judge thinks is "fair use" that counts.

      There are other issues of reuse of ancient music. It's irrelevant that the composer is long dead. The arranger of the composition has a copyright, the performer retains a copyright, the recorder has a copyright. So, unless you found an original manuscript by the composer, arranged it, performed it, and recorded it yourself, then you cannot be certain that someone's copyright has not been violated. ContentID is not final, it can be disputed, and then there is a further appeal stage, if your dispute is rejected. Youtube's UI needs some work, as its difficult to find, but the options are there.

      However, you are correct to point out that a number of publishers are claiming contentID matches on material that they are not the exclusive licensors for. I know of a number of musicians who produce their music under the CC license, but where a music promoter has licensed the work under a non-exclusive license to get it to a wider audience under commercial terms. In many cases, these promoters have put in ContentID claims as exclusive copyright holders, and block videos which have legitimately used the works under a CC license. In this case, you will find both a content ID dispute and appeal rejected in the promoter's favor.

    53. Re:Stop using Youtube by QuasiSteve · · Score: 1

      What the sibling AC said - care to share your list?

      Note that for [your] online viewing habits, you don't need G+. I guess you could be doing it out of solidarity of the internet commenters or those uploaders who curse the requirement while coveting the ad/syndicated partnership income - but if you're just watching the videos, you don't need a Google+ acccount. (Yet. Not likely to change, but then Google pulls all sorts of unlikely things.)

    54. Re:Stop using Youtube by ChumpusRex2003 · · Score: 1

      Which is more or less exactly what happens with the DMCA.

      The accuser sends a notice to the hosting company saying they believe they are publishing infringing material.
      Hosting company informs customer, and will remove content if no reply is received within 24 hours.
      Customer responds, that they own the copyright, and once done hosting company restores the content, if removed, or does not remove it if the time period has not elapsed.

      Once that stage is reached, the accuser must pay all costs and the video stays up until the case is closed.

      The issue is that most providers will remove the material fist, and ask questions later - even though, they are permitted to leave the material for 24 hours to allow the accused to respond.
      The other issue is that there is no penalty or cost for an accuser to make false claims under the DMCA. A malicious accuser can easily cause huge administrative headaches for hosting companies and content creators, and face no penalty or cost for it. Things get a lot more expensive and risky for the accuser at the 2nd phase once, and the number of copyright cases that progress after a DMCA counter-claim is very small indeed.

    55. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it protects users who consistently upload videos that follow the rules

      And if the first video you ever upload is incorrectly flagged?

    56. Re:Stop using Youtube by am+2k · · Score: 1

      my company wrote, directed, filmed, and edited a music video for a lesser known artist who is a friend. We did it pro bono because he is a friend. We posted the video to YouTube and he started using it successfully to promote himself and get more appearances. [...] That bigger company claimed they owned the copyright on the video. Google happily revoked our right to monetize it and gave us the option to take it down or let the bigger company monetize it.

      Well, this sucks, but it might actually be legally correct: When you friend signed away his soul to the record company, he gave them every right to act this way. As such, your company would have had to make a contract with the soul owner, not with the poor remains.

      Many musicians seem to be very naive and don't realize this when they sign up with a publisher, not even years later. Many don't even seem to think it necessary to point this out when they're doing contract work, like for indie games, even though it's very relevant. YouTube casters (which are the main PR for indie games) are not allowed to review games that come with this kind of tainted music. They are not even allowed to show trailers of the game. The casters not getting paid for their work is the mildest of results from violating this law.

      I've even seen musicians that tried to argue with their masters about that they would like them to allow game reviews, but it's a very sorry sight.

    57. Re:Stop using Youtube by swillden · · Score: 1

      Link to the video? I'll see if there's a way to escalate this issue internally. No guarantees, but it's worth a shot. Also, can you provide a succinct and factual summary of the sequence of events and the relationship with the publisher? Something I can include in the bug report.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    58. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can your friend not produce a notarized affidavid to the effect that a verbal contract existed between you at the time of production and that you never asigned tights to the company? Surely that would put them on the back foot and force them to prove they were responsible for the production?

    59. Re:Stop using Youtube by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Good question. The video itsself was 'Gertie the Dinosaur,' made in 1914. The opening title indicates it was released by 'The Box Office Attraction Company'*, suggesting it was a work for hire and thus even under the 95-year term would expire in 2009 - or 2004, if you assume it was just a project of Window McCay and thus expired seventy years after his death. The music is difficult though: No credit, seemingly no record of who composed or played it or when, and it may have been added later as the film is silent. I was able to determine an extract was reused for the later film 'Dreams of the Rarebit Fiend in 1921 though - same animator, so it was likely something composed specifically for use in Gertie. It is certainly written to fit the action of Gertie.

      *Still around. They changed name, and are now better known as Fox.

    60. Re:Stop using Youtube by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Condidering how convoluted music rights are, your friend may have unwittingly signed away more rights than either of you realize.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    61. Re:Stop using Youtube by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Fair use has a valuable role even when it isn't used: It prevents copyright holders bringing frivilous suits as a means to intimidate or harass critics or fans who are making noncommercial, noncompeting use of extracts. The copyright holder isn't going to file suit if they know that any judge is likely to accept a fair use defense and throw it out, and perhaps have them pay the defendant's costs too. That is what would likely have protected my video - it was just a joke, perhaps in rather bad taste, but textbook fair use. No commercial benefit for me, no significent part of the work used, not in competition with their own business. That doesn't work now that courts have been replaced by DMCA takedowns and automated processing: There's no longer any risk or cost to fileing a takedown, so copyright holders often tend towards an 'if in doubt, take it out' policy.

      There have been many well-known incidents of this overzealous automation going horribly wrong - an independant game called 'Doom 3' being hit by takedowns after ID released their own game of the same title, a student being threatened after sharing their school report on Snow White on a p2p network and a bot mistaking it for the Disney movie, the livestream of the Hugo Award being taken offline for showing an extract from a TV program with permission because the copyright holder had neglected to inform the operators of the enforcement-bot that the showing was authorised, videos of a space shuttle launch being taken down because a local TV news channel had the policy of automatically adding all their broadcasts to the bot list even if it was just footage they relayed from NASA's cameras. The only way to keep up with the sheer volume of video and other content the internet transmits is to rely heavily on automation, but this automation cannot apply the good judgement of a human and, in order to avoid liability, will block content upon even the hint of a suspicion.

      It's hard to say on the music, but it syncronises the action in a way that shows it must have been composed specifically, and the presence of artifacts and horrible sound quality would indicate it is certainly old. Just how old there is no way I could determine. No credits for composer, just producer/animator and distributor.

    62. Re:Stop using Youtube by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Winsor McCay, rather. Behold the fearsome power of the spellchecker.

    63. Re:Stop using Youtube by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      You know that copyright itself is not criminal law?

      If people can go to jail for violations, I don't quite see it that way, but right, the law's the law.. And I find it very unfortunate that the accuser can sting a guy with a mere "preponderance of evidence". It's a bogus two tiered system. "innocent until proven guilty" should be applied much more strenuously and forcefully to all charges leveled against anybody.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    64. Re:Stop using Youtube by danomac · · Score: 1

      It means to have something that's not controlled by the media cartels. But, in the case of youtube, the media cartels control it anyway.

      There's no way the media cartels would ever release a platform that everybody can upload video to. They want full control.

    65. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a TV program used a bunch of music without licencing it you bet your ass they would be sued into the ground

      That's totally why the producers of glee are all bankrupt and living off the streets now instead of ... oh wait, they're owned by a big corporation, so they got away with it.

    66. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You didn't get an appeal because you already had 2 strikes.

    67. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, everything Sony owns copyright to would go to the public domain.

      One false claim and all your copyrights go public. :)

    68. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've contradicted yourself.

      Google has also removed all ability to customise the look of anything. That and the Google+ integration are them dragging the site down.

    69. Re:Stop using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Such a scrawny, weak little faggot.

    70. Re:Stop using Youtube by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      IIRC, *not* going after an infringement can be used in court to bust your copyright. So they're damned if they do, damned if they don't?

      Yes, they should be more careful -- apparently there's little, if any, manual review of automated detections, which is the real problem.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    71. Re:Stop using Youtube by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Thing is, people put things on YouTube without paying for hosting, as I understand it. Since they pay nothing, Google is not under any contractual obligation to keep things up, and they have every right to take it down if it turns into a hassle to keep it up, or for any other reason.

      Remember, if you aren't paying, you aren't the customer, but rather the product.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    72. Re:Stop using Youtube by uninformedLuddite · · Score: 1

      Especially if the agent was Mr Crowley

      --
      The new right fascists are bilingual. They speak English and Bullshit.
    73. Re:Stop using Youtube by AlabamaCajun · · Score: 1

      You got it, it's Corporate Censorship. I keep hearing people talk about being free, freedom this, freedom that but support are still playing ho to these corporate giants.
      Yeah we have our guns but what can we do with them but shoot things.
      We also have other ways to be free and that is fair use. I can't see the video to judge for myself but Sony is loosing ground and will soon split up so I still won't buy their sh!t.

  4. Guilty until proven innocent. by Narcocide · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There needs to be a law against this. Sony should have to pay restitution to Blender.

    1. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Blender is nothing, a piece of dust in comparison to the Corporate Glory that is SONY CORP.

    2. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't worry the "invisible hand" is working:

      http://www.reuters.com/article...

      The more DRM they add, the worse their sales are.

    3. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Cryacin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sony should have to pay restitution to Blender.

      This. I understand the need for corporations to be able to take down entire movie content et al from being served in public, as much as we would like things for free, movies do cost, there needs to be profit to get them funded etc.

      However...

      The pendulum is on the movie producers side right now, and they are shilling legitimate content etc as much as possible, and would rather have something by default taken down incorrectly than do their due diligence. The best way to solve this, is when an incorrect takedown notice has been issued without honest and reasonable proof that the correct steps have been taken to identify illegitimate content according to the laws, the party requesting the unlawful removal of content should become liable for any damages that occur from the takedown, and that those damages should be commensurate with the calculations used when movies are pirated, as obviously it is the same goods we are speaking of.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    4. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Sigma+7 · · Score: 1

      I've been wondering if it already exists in already-existing copyright law:

      From http://www.law.cornell.edu/cop...:

      Sect. 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works

      [...]

      Sect. 106A. Rights of certain authors to attribution and integrity

      Subject to section 107 and independent of the exclusive rights provided in section 106 [17 USCS Sect. 106], the author of a work of visual art--

      (1) shall have the right--

      (A) to claim authorship of that work,

      This is probably meant to prevent other people from placing their name on your work, and probably should be tested on Youtube copyright claims. After all, a video does qualify as visual art.

    5. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by MarkvW · · Score: 1

      A publicly-owned You Tube would drive Sony crazy.

    6. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How about Anti-trust or RICO prosecutions?

    7. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not sure if serious. You are aware that Google is a publicly-owned company, right?

    8. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      I still prefer dust to crap on my carpets, let alone my desk.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Who could have predicted that replacing innovation with vendor lock-in could fail?

      I think anyone but people with a MBA. Sometimes it seems that part of the MBA curriculum is replacing common sense in a person with hubris and the thinking that people would do what they themselves would never do, because they think everyone's stupider than them.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    10. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not only do they usually not keep you from continuing your business until the decision, which happens to come at a MUCH faster pace than any DMCA takedown revert I have ever heard about, there's also provision that you get reimbursed for your losses if you have been accused wrongly, something the DMCA is sorely missing.

      In a nutshell, provided you have the deep enough pockets, you can sink a potential competitor using the DMCA. By the time he could possibly retaliate or even start trying to get back at you, he's been out of business for years.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    11. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by stenvar · · Score: 0

      Who could have predicted that replacing innovation with vendor lock-in could fail?

      Not Apple, because they are still busy following that strategy.

    12. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you expand on that? I tried to make that argument but couldn't come up with strong enough examples.

    13. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I make videos based on public domain classical music so my channel gets hit with copyright claims all the time. The thing that bugs me the most about the whole process is that the claimant doesn't have to respond to disputes for 30 days and a lot of times the claimant will wait until the 29th day then do something called a "reinstatement" which can take another 30 days to dispute. It's ridiculous. After the dispute is won and the video is re-monetized, it's a crap-shoot for how long it will stay undisputed because there are hundreds of matching recordings in the content tracking system and they only get flagged one at a time. You can't dispute them all at the same time, and each dispute can take 60 days to resolve. I estimate the most popular videos on my channel are in dispute 50% to 75% of the time they're up. If they would just shorten that 30 days to something more reasonable, like 7 days (which is about how long it takes the companies that are on it to respond), I'd be a lot happier.

    14. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Blender is nothing, a piece of dust in comparison to the Corporate Glory that is SONY CORP.

      So is the US Military compared to most of the worlds military. That doesn't mean you go around picking fights and acting like the fucking global polic...er, wait...

      Well, fuck, that argument went down faster than the Hindenburg..

    15. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having the most grunts and over priced tech doesn't matter when all first world countries can nuke the US back to the dark ages.

    16. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That is not how the DMCA is supposed to work, if it does it's Google and only Google how is to blame.
      The way it is intended to work is that first it is taken down. The moment you object it should come online _immediately_, and will _not_ taken down until whoever claimed it files an actual lawsuit.

    17. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      False on so many levels.
      1) you can be a moron with an MBA, a degree in Engineering or both.
      2) Some of the best strategists who designed vendor lock-in mechanisms and built huge corporations in the process did not even bother to get a degree.
      3) No matter the accademical credentials, Phds, being a tenured professor, most of the people are clueless when it comes to being successful strategists
      4) In corporate world, MBAs and Engineers are just executors, someone else calls the shorts.
      5) I would gratefully accept 2c for every clueless engineer I've met, you seem no different :-)

    18. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not relevant to your point, but FWIW the US Military is about 150% of the size of the rest of the world's militaries put together, at least in budgetary terms. Or in other words, the US accounts for 60% of the worldwide military budget.

    19. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by rioki · · Score: 1

      Because the current YouTube ting has squat to do with DMCA. The current system is a move by Google to please the major content produces and as a sign that Google is dedicated to enforce copyright law. The current problem with the current system is that is so easily abused and that is what Google should work on.

    20. Re:Guilty until proven innocent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many YouTube take-downs don't use the DMCA, because large content providers have an agreement with Google allowing them to take down anything from youtube they so desire.

      So, good luck getting any restitution.

  5. Perjury? by janoc · · Score: 5, Interesting

    IANAL, but shouldn't this qualify as perjury? Sony needs to certify in their automated DMCA request that they, in fact, own the rights to the content in question, under the penalty of perjury. Someone really needs to take the big studios to court for this sort of abuse, otherwise it won't stop.

    1. Re:Perjury? by wisnoskij · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Someone with a million or two to just throw out the window and a lifetime of freetime to spend.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    2. Re:Perjury? by amiga3D · · Score: 3

      Maybe the EFF.

    3. Re:Perjury? by Cryacin · · Score: 2

      Now there's a case for a crowd funding action! I'd pay $5.

      --
      Science advances one funeral at a time- Max Planck
    4. Re:Perjury? by amaurea · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sadly, I don't think that's the case. This is all voluntary agreements between Google and various coorporations that kick in *before* any DMCA stuff. I think what happens is that Google runs video/audio matching programs on behalf of other companies, and when something matches they take it down, notifying the user. The user can then assert that they do in fact have the right to upload the video. Once they do, the video is put back up, and the company is notified. They then file a real DMCA claim. The video is then taken down again, and the user is notified. They can then file a DMCA counterclaim, which would bring the video back but expose them to a lawsuit, or back down, in which case they get a "copyright strike", which leads to the loss of the ability to upload long videos, and eventually being banned from youtube.

      I think these voluntary agreements are a perversion of an already pretty nasty law. I've had one of my own videos affected in a somewhat milder fashion: They put advertisements on the video instead of taking it down. That makes it seems like Iæm selling out my viewers to advertisers, but though the video was quite clearly fair use (a video comparing the current and previous world rectord speedruns of a computer game), I would have to consult a lawyer before contesting it, which would take days, and be expensive. The power asymmetry means that Sony etc. can accuse you as much as they want with no worry, while defending oneself is a costly and risky endeavor to normal users.

    5. Re:Perjury? by jaa101 · · Score: 1

      Do we know this is the result of a DMCA request? Doesn't Youtube give studios like Sony an interface to take down what they want? So then it's back to being as annoying as hell but not legally actionable in any way :-(.

    6. Re:Perjury? by Kjella · · Score: 2

      Well, first of all many major copyright holders have special deals with YouTube where they don't actually send DMCA requests. In that case it's just a private agreement between Sony and YouTube on content monitoring, at best you have a slander suit but no basis for a perjury. Secondly, they may have a legal claim to copyright on the whole clip reel as a collection - basically the selection and composition of clips - and that's enough to get them out of the perjury part. In generic terms, "Under penatlity of perjury, we are the copyright holders of movie X. We believe that the posted scene Y is in violation of our copyright on X." Even if that last part is wrong because it's freely licensed or in the public domain or for some other reason not eligible for copyright it's not under perjury. It sucks, but any competent lawyer will manage to wiggle Sony out of any trouble.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    7. Re:Perjury? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, so maybe it's not perjury, but how about "tortious interference with business relationships"?

    8. Re:Perjury? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like the head of the MPAA and others appointed to just those positions responsible for doing just that by Obama.

    9. Re:Perjury? by jdi_knght · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sadly, I don't think that's the case. This is all voluntary agreements between Google and various coorporations that kick in *before* any DMCA stuff. I think what happens is that Google runs video/audio matching programs on behalf of other companies, and when something matches they take it down, notifying the user. The user can then assert that they do in fact have the right to upload the video. Once they do, the video is put back up, and the company is notified. They then file a real DMCA claim. The video is then taken down again, and the user is notified. They can then file a DMCA counterclaim, which would bring the video back but expose them to a lawsuit, or back down, in which case they get a "copyright strike", which leads to the loss of the ability to upload long videos, and eventually being banned from youtube.

      I think these voluntary agreements are a perversion of an already pretty nasty law. I've had one of my own videos affected in a somewhat milder fashion: They put advertisements on the video instead of taking it down. That makes it seems like Iæm selling out my viewers to advertisers, but though the video was quite clearly fair use (a video comparing the current and previous world rectord speedruns of a computer game), I would have to consult a lawyer before contesting it, which would take days, and be expensive. The power asymmetry means that Sony etc. can accuse you as much as they want with no worry, while defending oneself is a costly and risky endeavor to normal users.

      Just to expand on the process, when a video is first hit with the claim, you can dispute it within YouTube, and have to provide an explanation. What they *don't* tell you is that the company who made the claim (which would be Sony in this case) is the one who reviews it and makes a determination.

      If they deny your dispute, you can then appeal from within the YouTube interface, again stating an explanation about why your content is your own, or fair use, or whatever. But this time you get to read a lot more legal scare stuff, AND you have to provide your address & phone number along with the appeal. Yet again, the claimant is the one who reviews this. At this point they either have to retract their claim, or send a formal DMCA takedown notice to keep your video down. Or I suppose they could just directly sue you now that they have your info.

      If they go the DMCA takedown route at that point, that's where you can file a DMCA counter-notice, and they'll have to bring you to court if they want to pursue things further. Since you gave them your address & number during step 2, you won't be hard to track down.

      The system is completely stacked in favor of the big media companies, and I'm sure it works well for them. Make claims on all kinds of content, and the vast majority of people will be too afraid to challenge it, and many of those people might even assume that they were in the wrong even if they weren't. Next benefit is that the claimant's allowed to put advertising/etc on the video that Joe User made and profit from it. And the very existence of steps #1 and #2 allows big media to skirt around the risks of sending false DMCA notices.

    10. Re:Perjury? by silentbozo · · Score: 2

      So... why not small claims? If every person who was in the right on YouTube filed a small claims case against a media entity, they could be bled to death through a thousand cuts, and it would either put a stop to the practice, or make judges aware that the big media companies are abusing their power, which could be very helpful once someone wants to do a class action to stop what is essentially private taxation (running ads on independently produced content) for the benefit of corporations. I mean, seriously - we've seen this before. Independent artist releases album. Independent artist's track gets licensed and used for some big movie studio trailer. Big movie studio trailer gets uploaded to YouTube by big movie studio. Next thing you know, independent artist's promo videos get banned or adjacked because some idiot matching algorithm looks at big movie studio trailer, automatically assumes big movie studio owns the independent artist's works, and now independent artist is screwed and has to do double the work to reclaim the rights to their own work.

    11. Re:Perjury? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      There's an enormous intentional loophole which means the perjury thing never applies :(

    12. Re:Perjury? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's completely stacked in their favor unless the video you uploaded contains ONLY your own original content or content you licenced and for wich you have documentation.

    13. Re:Perjury? by Altrag · · Score: 1

      Doesn't specifically say its under the DMCA, but claiming and attempting to enforce copyright on content you don't own is definitely illegal regardless of the DMCA.

      Sony and the other big companies are basically letting robots continuously break the law for them and operating under the principle that the people affected will either a) be small enough that they can't afford to mount a significant defense or b) be big enough that they'll contact Sony directly and "work things out" before getting legal entities involved (err well I'm sure lawyers would be involved but I mean the actual justice department or whoever.)

      There's always a chance that they'll hit somebody who picks the third option and has both the time and money to not be in group a and the ethics and willpower to not be in group b, but that's just a risk of doing business and they'll likely just settle those few out of court when they come up and go back to business as usual.

      There's of course also the fact that Youtube is a private entity and are entitled to do basically whatever the fuck they want. I'm not sure if there's any common carrier restrictions or similar applied to Youtube but even if there are, they're given pretty wide freedoms. They don't HAVE to host your content. The only illegal thing here is Sony's copyright claim on the content.. Youtube's choice to always side with Sony and screw over the little guy is perfectly legal AFAIK.

    14. Re:Perjury? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Someone really needs to take the big studios to court for this sort of abuse, otherwise it won't stop.

      It's happened. The court ruled against Universal in that particular case. The case is continuing on appeals.

      Once again, I'm not sure it applies in this case, because it's not clear there was a DMCA takedown notice. Google might have just blocked it as a 'favor' to Sony.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    15. Re:Perjury? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The net result of an ownership society is that it disincentives the productive to produce.

      Sony hasn't been profitable for several years now; revenue has been declining and net margin and profit is in the fraction of a percent range. About the only thing Sony has that anyone would want if they were bought out is the equity in their publishing and content business. They are selling off the manufacturing portion of their business piecemeal.

      We'll get a public apology and all the garbage that goes with that, but the public at this point wants blood. Patience has worn thin.

      Was thinking of buying a Sony Xperia, I think I'll pass now that I've been reminded how vile this company is.

    16. Re:Perjury? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it is completely stacked in their favour and who created the video is basically irrelevant for the outcome unless you can spare several millions _after_ your video has been down for months without you being able to do anything about it.
      And after you've spent those millions on a lawsuit, still nothing will happen to them. So no, they win no matter how obviously you own the video.

    17. Re:Perjury? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think what happens is that Google runs video/audio matching programs on behalf of other companies, and when something matches they take it down, notifying the user..

      And here is the interesting thing. They do it on behalf of specific companies, not all of them.
      If their algorithm hadn't been specifically tuned to protect Sony then Sonys 4k demo pool had been removed since it was infringing on blenders copyright, not the other way around.
      If Google blame this on automation then they should be tasked with fixing their automation so that it no longer protects specific companies.

    18. Re:Perjury? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      IANAL, but shouldn't this qualify as perjury? Sony needs to certify in their automated DMCA request that they, in fact, own the rights to the content in question, under the penalty of perjury. Someone really needs to take the big studios to court for this sort of abuse, otherwise it won't stop.

      I thought so too, but actually it doesn't appear to be. From the law:

      A statement that the information in the notification is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.

      You have to promise that you are authorised to act on behalf of the righe allegedly infringed. Sony are alleging that their rights are infringed (the perjery is not for that allegation, so OK for them there) and they are certainly authorized to act on behalf of themselves, to no perjery there either.

      Basically what the perjery clause appears to do is stop third parties acting on behalf of someone without their permission.

      There's also the bit that "A statement that the information ... is accurate", but y my reading that's not covered by the "under penalty of perjery" part.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    19. Re:Perjury? by Sun · · Score: 1

      But this just means one thing. Google aren't within their safe harbor during the entire first stage of the process.

      If, instead or in addition to disputing, you also file claim against both for smeering your name, Google can't claim that the DMCA gives them immunity.

      Shachar

    20. Re:Perjury? by MrL0G1C · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What we need is a 3-strikes and you're out system - submit 3 false DMCA take-downs and any more take-downs become invalid.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    21. Re:Perjury? by nurb432 · · Score: 2

      The system is completely stacked in favor of the big media companies, and I'm sure it works well for them.

      Well, they did buy the law remember... Its a return on their investment, so to speak.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    22. Re:Perjury? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems like the process you describe would allow Blender to keep their video up pending all these procedures, provided they have some entity that can take legal responsibility for it. Is the problem that Blender doesn't have any such entity, or that they don't want to take responsibility, or that they're annoyed at being nagged by the round-trips through the web tool because there's no apparent incentive for movie studios to be accurate about their complaints?

    23. Re:Perjury? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't it perjury anyway? They're claiming copyright ownership in the video page, they're spreading a lie about IP that can damage BF reputation.

    24. Re:Perjury? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many strikes before all their stockholders are executed?

    25. Re:Perjury? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      IANAL, but shouldn't this qualify as perjury?

      No, because all that has happened is Youtube has blocked it. Is there even a crime here? If Sony (or anybody) asks Youtube to remove a video for whatever reason is that a crime?

      I'm not saying this particular situation is any good but suggesting this should qualify as "perjury" is a bit ridiculous. Maybe if they filed a DMCA takedown notice to Blender and followed that through the courts to stop Blender from distributing Sintel then perhaps things are different but right now the movie is still available from their site, it's just not available on Youtube and the exact reason is unspecified as yet.

    26. Re:Perjury? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In that case it's just a private agreement between Sony and YouTube on content monitoring, at best you have a slander suit but no basis for a perjury. Secondly, they may have a legal claim to copyright on the whole clip reel as a collection - basically the selection and composition of clips - and that's enough to get them out of the perjury part.

      Nope. They shut down Sintel with the claim that they own the copyright on it.
      According to the license Sintel is distributed under they are not allowed to do that and they are no longer allowed to use or distribute Sintel.
      This puts them distinctly in copyright infringement territory.

    27. Re:Perjury? by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      These claims can only be proven true or false in court - which means one way or another the accused infringer will have to go to court. A simple counter claim does not invalidate the original request, as the counter claim can be just as invalid as the original claim. So for a DCMA takedown notice to be proven false, you'd need a takedown notice, then a counter claim, followed by a law suit where the copyright holder (the person whose content was incorrectly taken down) manages to win a judgement in his favour.

      Besides that it will be hard to find a copyright holder to go through all this (and what are three judged false notices on half a million correct, i.e. undisputed, ones?), it's going to take years before judgements are granted, considering how slow the judiciary normally works.

    28. Re:Perjury? by suutar · · Score: 1

      The only part of the DMCA complaint that is under penalty of perjury is the person doing the filing claiming they are an authorized agent of the purported complainer. I, as a non-Sony employee, could not issue takedown requests in Sony's name (probably because folks might deliberately file bogus requests in order to make Sony look dumb. Er). The rest of it is all on "good faith belief" basis, which is nigh impossible to disprove. In particular "our computer system says it looks like a match, and the system hasn't been shown to be totally ridiculously inaccurate yet" qualifies, so far at least.

      Now, the rebuttal to the complaint, that is if I recall correctly under penalty of perjury. But the takedown request is utterly safe to file.

    29. Re:Perjury? by Optali · · Score: 1

      I too, actually more and if possible with the aim on expanding these sort of actions to the EU too.
      But I would support it even if it were US only as it's in America were it would hit them the hardest.

      --
      -- 29A the number of the Beast
    30. Re:Perjury? by Optali · · Score: 1

      What we need is to send the coordinates of the home of Sony's CEO to the North Koreans and see if the strike it with a Nuke :)

      --
      -- 29A the number of the Beast
    31. Re:Perjury? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      No, they need to claim they hold a copyright, or are authorized to act on that copyright, on something or other. That is under penalty of perjury. They also need to claim that your video infringes that copyright, and that is not under penalty of perjury.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    32. Re:Perjury? by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

      Maybe the CEO of Sony could get fired after a lone site displays to its visitors a nastygram about Sony's behavior, which produces a media frenzy?

      Or is that an inappropriate use of this tactic, since actual people are actually harmed (a little) by what appears to be actual unlawful behavior of the company, in this case?

      --
      There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
  6. Blender should file a Counter Claim against Sony by Zombie+Ryushu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Blender should file a Counter Claim against Sony. As well as try and get a strike against Sony for this. There is a term for this, False Flag abuse.

  7. On the Other Hand... by Richy_T · · Score: 2

    free publicity.

    1. Re:On the Other Hand... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For Sony? Maybe, in the negative sense. They're too big to be healthy, as are most of the corporate giants.

    2. Re:On the Other Hand... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sintel - The movie so good, Sony thought it was theirs.

    3. Re:On the Other Hand... by Hamsterdan · · Score: 2

      So? people don't care, as long as they can give them their money. As long as people have their shiny things and reality tv, they won't mind being abused by corporations.

      --
      I've got better things to do tonight than die.
    4. Re:On the Other Hand... by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      I know I'd never heard of it. And now I plan to watch it. Probably in better quality than Youtube also.

  8. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by Princeofcups · · Score: 2

    Blender should file a Counter Claim against Sony. As well as try and get a strike against Sony for this. There is a term for this, False Flag abuse.

    Sigh. Please don't use expressions that you don't understand. False Flag: designed to deceive in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by other entities.

    --
    The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
  9. Blender, sue Sony! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The case can probably be made that Sony is claiming ownership if they are sending take down notices over it. IANAL.

  10. Re:Perjury? Well, fraud maybe... by davecb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In some countries, it would be obtaining a service (the takedown) based upon a false and fraudulent pretense. That's a criminal offence, and an injured party can call upon the Crown to prosecute it as such. Consult a lawyer in the jurisdiction in question, get a quote and take them with you to the fraud squad, to ensure the process happens correctly. It's arguably hard to do correctly in the U.S, as suggested by the low number of convictions reported...

    --
    davecb@spamcop.net
  11. Flagging, false flagging, and Joe jobs by tepples · · Score: 1

    Flagging is also slang for reporting user contributions that violate terms of service. Thus "false flagging" means a false report of such a violation. The meaning you refer to is more often called a "Joe job" on the net.

  12. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or you know to falsely flag a video on various grounds. like copyright or inappropriate to get it taken down.

  13. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by Narcocide · · Score: 1

    "Zombie Ryushu" ... he's just high. Relax. I think its more likely that he's simply mistaken one term he does understand for another which he's not heard in the proper context. Maybe he meant something like "False Positives Flagging abuse?" There is certainly a buzz-term for this that is easy enough to confuse linguistically and conceptually with "False Flag operations."

  14. just broken youtube by luther349 · · Score: 1

    they broke this system a few months back. it just flags everything now and theirs not a live persion in the building to take the flood of wtf they don't own this shit counter clames.

    1. Re:just broken youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is actually pretty simple to solve. So, I'm surprised this junk has been going on for so many years. It is just three steps:
      1) Response to take down requests are automated. Mostly just do them, (maybe with some automated abuse checkers).
      2) Responses to disputes by the video poster are also automated. Mostly just immediate video reinstatement, (maybe with some automated abuse checks).
      3) Further copyright claims on the video are not automated and take down requests would require formal DMCA-compliant written notifications.
      Steps 1 and 2 are just there for efficiency and to "play nice" with both sides. Only step three is actually required by law. What YouTube is doing now is not required and is simply doing favors to the 1%. It is yet another example of how the rich in America are getting free rides on everything.

    2. Re:just broken youtube by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      Your step 3 is covered by 1 and 2. Youtube just needs to implement step 2.

  15. Dear Sony by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 1

    FUCK YOU.

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
  16. It's called Slander of Title by Kaenneth · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

    "... falsely claiming you own someone else's copyright"

    1. Re:It's called Slander of Title by jcfandino · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Time for crowd founded lawsuits?

    2. Re:It's called Slander of Title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean the EFF?

    3. Re:It's called Slander of Title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Time for crowd founded lawsuits?

      Or bring Sony to court in a nation where you can't just buy a larger legal team.
      Considering that Blender Foundation is Dutch they might have a shot there.

    4. Re:It's called Slander of Title by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Talk to SCOX and Darl McBride about that.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    5. Re:It's called Slander of Title by Optali · · Score: 1

      Hey!
      That's a very good idea indeed.

      --
      -- 29A the number of the Beast
    6. Re:It's called Slander of Title by jcfandino · · Score: 1

      I think it'd be adding fuel to the fire.
      Lawyers would be the only benefited by that, but it's always nice to see the bully beaten at his own game.

  17. Re:Perjury? Sony? Say it Ain't So. by NReitzel · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I personally think the situation is -much- simpler.

    Google just needs to not return anything with "Sony" in it, as a search result.

    --

    Don't take life too seriously; it isn't permanent.

  18. Maybe Sony added content to their video by Megahard · · Score: 2

    They could have added a rootkit.

    --
    I eat only the real part of complex carbohydrates.
    1. Re:Maybe Sony added content to their video by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Under CC-Attribution-3.0, they can't make those claims. Copyright infringement. Not that they give a damn until someone sues their asses.

  19. Blender should take them to court by future+assassin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    and have Sony state under oath why they think the video is theirs. Seems Sony is excertising ownership right over the video, seems to me that's IP theft by Sony. After all according to the gove and media IP theft is the biggest danger to American way of life since the nuclear communist threat.

    I would happily donate $$$ to this court case.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    1. Re:Blender should take them to court by Alpha232 · · Score: 2

      Please note that under Section 512(f) any person who knowingly materially misrepresents that material or activity is infringing may be subject to liability for damages. Where YouTube has a good faith belief that a person is materially misrepresenting that material or activity is infringing of their rights or the right of a copyright owner for whom they are authorized to act, YouTube may, in its discretion, not remove the cited content. In this case, we will notify the complainant.

      I hope to see a Defamation/Libel case coming to a court room near you!

    2. Re:Blender should take them to court by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

      You shouldn't have to donate to that case because cases of willful criminal violations of Law are supposed to be prosecuted at taxpayer expense by the State.

  20. Better yet... by thrill12 · · Score: 1

    Sony *and* Youtube should Gold sponsor the movie as a penalty for this mishap.

    --
    Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
  21. hrmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    went to blender tried ot click on link regarding this and i got....

    What happened?
    The initial connection between CloudFlare's network and the origin web server timed out. As a result, the web page can not be displayed.

    seems sony is DDoS'ing the link off blender now

    1. Re:hrmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Slashdot effect. You must be new here.

    2. Re:hrmmm by Barny · · Score: 2

      Indeed, the best way to get around the slashdot effect is to hit refresh repeatedly, that will get it working.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    3. Re:hrmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean Slashdot mini-effect. After Slashdot lost tons of readers/commentators, you can't call it like the original anymore :P
      150 posts? Pahleez!

  22. You are proposing what DMCA was supposed to be by dbIII · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The best way to solve this, is when an incorrect takedown notice has been issued

    When the DMCA was being debated it was assured that there were very strong penalties for incorrect takedown notices. Then the goalposts shifted so that "it didn't really mean it" became enough of a defence to escape those penalties. People who warned that this was going to happen were told to remove their tinfoil hats.


    That's not the only problem I have with how the DMCA turned out but it's a start. Takedown notice spamming is like putting a speeding ticket on every parked car you see.

  23. Linkies please! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A list of Youtube alternatives would be greatly appreciated. I know only Vimeo.

  24. Re:Perjury? Well, fraud maybe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The proper term is "Slander of Title". The rights for Sintel do not belong to Sony, period. They're re-using it under a Creative Commons license, but they're NOT the rights holder and they basically claimed they were with this little stunt. I'd think that the damages might fund several shorts or at least one or two feature length Blender movies.

  25. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The proper term is "Slander of Title". Basically, Sony claimed the Protected Work was theirs wherein they're merely licensing it for their 4K demo content. Under CC Attribution 3.0, they can't claim anything as their own work, they have to attribute the content to the original rights holders, and can't place any additional restrictions on the further publication of the content (i.e. You can't tell someone to do a takedown on the content, either as a DMCA or as a reciprocal agreement as Sony has with Google on YouTube. Violates the restrictions clause and attempts to claim sole rights over the content- you can't claim sole rights over your derivative work per license which would be the only way you could legitimately do a takedown.)

    This means they are no longer licensed to the content in question.

    Each and every copy they distributed or intend to distribute of the protected work in question, Sintel, is now a willful copyright infringement on Sony's part. Seems to me that the Blender project needs to retain counsel and sue for the Statutory Damages for this...which amounts to $150,000, per each copy done without licensing.

  26. Thanks Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Don't be evil", they said. Riiiiight....

    1. Re:Thanks Google by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Its automated, so blame Sony, not Google.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  27. What probably happened by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Content providers generate "fingerprints" of all video content, then they send them to YouTube for takedown. This is all pretty automated. Live TV shows have fingerprints generated of show segments and sent to YouTube before the show is even over. Probably the video was put through a "typical" content pipeline and fingerprinted.

  28. How about... by NewtonsLaw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "You wouldn't steal a handbag...

    "You wouldn't steal a car...

    "You wouldn't download a movie...

    "But it's okay to claim someone else's IP as your own... if you're Sony!

    1. Re:How about... by VortexCortex · · Score: 0

      "You wouldn't French kiss a nerd's Blender...."

    2. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly, based on Skyrim, people will steal every fucking thing possible, and alter reality to increase their stealing potential.

    3. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You wouldn't French kiss a nerd's Blender...."

      Is it from Blendtec http://www.willitblend.com/?

    4. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sony would steal a handbag
      Sony would steal a car
      Sony did infect my PCs with a rootkit
      Sony did pirate this movie
      Sony does steal other people's IP, but first posting it, then by taking down the original that was never theirs to begin with.
      Sony must be stopped.

  29. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by phantomfive · · Score: 2

    It looks like this is just a Youtube thing, that no legal action was taken at all. It was an agreement between two private companies (Sony and Google), to take down content that Sony doesn't like. That isn't illegal, because Google owns the site.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  30. beta suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yes its does

  31. Except by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let them monetize it and just have them set the account that the money goes into to yours.

  32. Re:Stop using Youtube, bullmess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    YouTube was great until Google acquired them. Every "enhancement" and change they make drags it down further.

    Of course, without Google, YouTube might not still be around otoh. But the point of YouTube was to decentralize video sharing and take it out of the hands of corporate media giants. Instead, the giants are increasing their stranglehold on YouTube and making it unfeasible for any old Joe to get a tiny kickback for content they upload, as well as crowding out all other competing content.

    Meanwhile, Google mandates that people use YouTube with their real name and make it exceedingly difficult to manage multiple accounts.

    Fuck em.

    This would happen anyway without Gaagle's buy out. What bothers me is this seems to be the only video site, that /. reports about when there are a handful that are dealing with takedown trolls.

    That does not excuse Gaagle, which have proven themselves utterly incompetent when it comes to anything 'free' and 'open'...

  33. MASSIVE BACKLASH AGAINST SONY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    AN UNINTENDED BUT DEADLY BACKLASH against Sony Pictures is underway in Italy at the moment with people in major electronics stores reportedly asking customers NOT TO BUY SONY PRODUCTS.
    At least a couple of people injured in Rome as security guards wrestled a demonstrator which destroyed a Sony LCD TV.
    It would probably be a good idea for Sony to immediately publicly act on the mess by chastising Google's mistake.

  34. Boycott Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps, if we start a campaign to boycott Google. Don't use google search, don't use Youtube, etc.
    Do this for a day or two, just to show Google the error of their ways. Create a website stating what the boycott is about, Google needs to change their policies on such things as erroneous take down notices.

    Do it just like the SOPA Internet blackout, or the Aaron Swartz Commemoration. Promote it as widely as possible, just a few days, Google will see it immediately, and perhaps it'll open their eyes.

  35. Absolutely disgraceful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These assholes needed to have filed a DMCA against this for it to happen. Maybe there's some fingerprinting system that auto detected it, but they should have never added the movie to their list of property. Another black mark on the sordid copy book of Sony et.al.

  36. Re:Perjury? Sony? Say it Ain't So. by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

    Google just needs to not return anything with "Sony" in it, as a search result.

    Yeah, that wouldn't be evil at all.

  37. Re:Perjury? Well, fraud maybe... by arth1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The proper term is "Slander of Title". The rights for Sintel do not belong to Sony, period. They're re-using it under a Creative Commons license, but they're NOT the rights holder and they basically claimed they were with this little stunt. I'd think that the damages might fund several shorts or at least one or two feature length Blender movies.

    And now Sony cannot legally use the Sintel short. They broke the Creative Commons license by claiming ownership, which severs the license. Any and all use of the Sintel short by Sony from now on is unlicensed, i.e. pirate copying.
    And no, there is no provision in the CC license for sayihng "oops" to get the license reactivated. They are in breach, and need to get a new license from the copyright holders before they can continue using it.

  38. Re:Perjury? Well, fraud maybe... by Altrag · · Score: 1

    Given that this is done by US companies operating under a US law, I'm pretty sure they'd give exactly zero shits if they got a false pretense claim from some other country. At the most, if it looked like it was going to get above the small claims level in that country, they'd pay a few thousand $ settlement fee (ie: basically meaningless to Sony or whoever) and continue on with business as usual.

    Its basically impossible (by design) for an individual to fight copyright claims. Enough individuals getting together can sometimes do something but you need one hell of a proficient and dedicated organizer to get that done and sadly there are few people with the talent to really motivate their fellow man to get off their ass and do something about the problems in the world. Hopefully one of them will take up the cause of copyright reform some day before we're too far down the rabbit hole.

    Check out http://www.ourfairdeal.org/ for one group attempting such (in their case, attempting to stop the TPP from become international SOPA which is where the media companies are trying to take it.. SOPA got rejected in the US? Just hide it in an international trade agreement and require that it overrides sovereign laws! Problem solved!)

  39. Re:Perjury? Well, fraud maybe... by Altrag · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And who's going to stop them? Its one thing to say its illegal.. its quite another to enforce that claim, even if you're technically true. That's the whole problem with the current copyright system (and much of the legal system in general) -- money makes the laws and money enforces the laws. Justice gets to sit in a corner and sulk with the rest of us.

  40. Serves Blender right, for using Youtube by ikhider · · Score: 4, Informative

    There are better alternatives, like Archive.org--especially for Libre/Opensource projects. I would not bother with Youtube, which is riddled with ads anyway. Archive.org has a mandate to serve the public, Youtube has a mandate to line the pockets of the rich. I'll take Archive.org. The Blender team should have known better.

    --
    "SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE
    1. Re:Serves Blender right, for using Youtube by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      B-b-b-b-but the cool kids all watch YouTube!

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    2. Re:Serves Blender right, for using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that what you 'cool kids' do @ the nuthouse, fruitloop? http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    3. Re:Serves Blender right, for using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Youtube doesn't have any ads and hasn't for years now. The last time I saw a Youtube ad was on a coworker's PC that didn't have AdBlock.

    4. Re:Serves Blender right, for using Youtube by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is on archive.org: https://archive.org/search.php...

      Putting it on YouTube is a natural for publicity, not at all a poor decision. It certainly does NOT 'serve them right'. Blame the victim much? Sony bears 100% responsibility for this IP 'theft'.

    5. Re:Serves Blender right, for using Youtube by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      If you want any viewers - more than just the people involved in making the movie and their close friends - you don't have much choice but to go the YouTube route.

  41. Whose the infringer? by luckymutt · · Score: 2

    It is believed that the takedown was a result of Sony Electronics adding Sintel to their official 4k demo pool.

    This sounds like Sony is the infringer.

    1. Re:Whose the infringer? by Kyogreex · · Score: 1

      Due to the use of the Creative Commons Attribution license, I'd imagine Sony is quite within their rights to use the movie for their demo. So no, Sony wouldn't be infringing on anything merely by using the video.

  42. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On YouTube, reporting a video for breaking the rules is called "flagging" the video and flagging a video for illegitimate reasons is called "false flagging."

  43. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by spectro · · Score: 4, Interesting

    this, from the moment the video was took down, every download of Sintel from any Sony Pictures server is an instance of copyright infringement carrying a fine of up to $250,000.

    I would love to see Sony Pictures lawyers claiming it was just an accident after all the aggresive prosecutions of "accidental" music sharers.

    --
    HTML is obsolete. It's time for a new, simpler and richer markup language.
  44. Sony not Youtube? by JakartaDean · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well, first of all many major copyright holders have special deals with YouTube where they don't actually send DMCA requests. In that case it's just a private agreement between Sony and YouTube on content monitoring, at best you have a slander suit but no basis for a perjury. Secondly, they may have a legal claim to copyright on the whole clip reel as a collection - basically the selection and composition of clips - and that's enough to get them out of the perjury part. In generic terms, "Under penatlity of perjury, we are the copyright holders of movie X. We believe that the posted scene Y is in violation of our copyright on X." Even if that last part is wrong because it's freely licensed or in the public domain or for some other reason not eligible for copyright it's not under perjury. It sucks, but any competent lawyer will manage to wiggle Sony out of any trouble.

    The youtube page in fact says: "This video contains content from Sony Pictures Movies & Shows, who has blocked it on copyright grounds."

    Assuming they're as careful with their language as I am, that says the Sony, not Youtube, initiated the takedown.

    --
    The subject who is truly loyal to the Chief Magistrate will neither advise nor submit to arbitrary measures (Junius)
  45. arr! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When companies keep acting like this I have a moral obligation to pirate there stuff. I will fill follow the law when they do.

    1. Re:arr! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is how I feel about murder and vigilantism in general.

  46. A completely braindead system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As expected by the completely braindead amaericans.

    Maybe some European who is actually a copyright owner should make sure Youtube gets taken down in the rest of the world.

  47. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The DMCA claim by Sony is illegal since it breaks the Creative Commons license that the Blender foundation chose to apply to the work. That means that Sony is violating the copyright of the Blender foundation.

    Unfortunately, it seems that Google did the right thing here. I personally wouldn't mind blaming them, but they are forced to comply with DMCA even if the claim is illegal.

  48. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    Once again, I'm not sure it was a DMCA thing

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  49. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by sstamps · · Score: 1

    The text that appears when you try to watch the video is:

    "This video contains content from Sony Pictures Movies & Shows, who has blocked it on copyright grounds. "

    Using the term "copyright" makes it unequivocal -- this is clearly a statutory issue, not a contractual one between two private entities.

    --
    -SS "Teach the ignorant, care for the dumb, and punish the stupid."
  50. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by phantomfive · · Score: 2

    That doesn't make any sense. I can tell you I don't like you based on copyright grounds, but it doesn't mean it will have anything to do with legality. The DMCA has a fairly specific list of steps that need to be followed for it to be considered a takedown notice.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  51. test reply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    test reply with more text

  52. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    > Sony claimed the Protected Work was *theirs*

    That's the problem: Sony didn't claim anything. It was just some pattern matcher whithin the bowels of Google. Oops.

    Thus, they (Sony, everyone else) can wash their hands in innocence. The fact that they colluded in creating this whole mess with automatic takedowns, etc. is much more difficult to fight against, especially because governments are in the same bed (cf. ACTA et al).

    Automatic "law enforcement". Quite worrying, this.

    (On the bright side, others get killed by algorithm/drone strike, thus it could be worse. Cheer up!)

  53. Three Strike Rule on Sony? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sony has been a big supporter of groups that lobby for a three strike rule on copyright violations. According to them, copyright protections are so important that people caught violating it three times should have their internet access removed. While I disagree with the claim, I think Sony should at least hold themselves to how they feel the world should work.

    So therefore all it should take is three copyright violations by Sony itself and they should feel obligated to remove themselves from the internet.

    An example of such three copyright violation performed by Sony could be:

    • Sony copyright violation with GPL covered PalmOS emulator[1]. They violated the license by performing distribution under a different license terms and therefore violated the copyright.
    • Sony copyright violation with GPL covered worked included in XCP[2]. Again, they violated the license and therefore violated the copyright when they redistributed the covered works.
    • Sony copyright violation of Sintel. They claimed license terms which conflicted with creative commons license terms when they added it to the youtube Match ID system.

    The fact that Sony's website is still online suggests that Sony wishes there to be one law for everyone else and an exception for them. This game that copyright law is important only as long as someone other than Sony is violating it needs to stop. People need to learn that as long as they continue to buy products and services from Sony, then Sony will use that money to continue the historical trend lobbying to inhibit others for violating the same laws that Sony itself blatantly violates.

    [1] http://docs.gnu-designs.com/sony/

    [2] http://blog.trendmicro.com/trendlabs-security-intelligence/sony27s-xcp-drm-system-violates-gpl/

    To protect the legitimacy of copyright requires first halting the businesses that have profited on violating it's terms. To protect the legitimacy copyright requires bringing down Sony.

  54. Won't work with false ownership claims by dutchwhizzman · · Score: 1

    As asked correctly by the parent poster, how would that work in false ownership claims? I'd say they'd have to pay for the production of said item to the party that they wronged by their claim, since putting the production in public domain would only hurt the actual owner. Make false claims hurt so much that people will think twice before submitting one.

    --
    I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
    1. Re:Won't work with false ownership claims by sirlark · · Score: 2

      Read the GP Again... "claimant's copyright that was reportedly infringed immediately turned over to public domain". The claimant must, even with the fucked up copyright laws we still have, specify what copyright they own is being violated. So even in a false claim, Asshat Corp asserts you've violated their copyright on A, in your work B, they lose copyright on A. Your work, B, is unaffected. This particular case is very different from your normal take down request though, since Asshat Corp has taken your work, B, and included it in their line up (possibly legally if your work was creative commons without a non-commercial clause). Now an automatic system, which is fact totally one sided, has determined your B is the same as their B, and because it always assumes Asshat Corp own everything and everyone else is thief (because that reflects reality ) your B gets taken down. The problem here is the automation. The system should, when a potential infringing case is identified, check the licence of Asshat Corp's claimed infringing content. In this case it would have been CC, so no need to take down. If Asshat corp had CHANGED the license, and the original was CC-SA, then the blender guys would have a very good reason to file suit.

    2. Re:Won't work with false ownership claims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This particular case is very different from your normal take down request though, since Asshat Corp has taken your work, B, and included it in their line up (possibly legally if your work was creative commons without a non-commercial clause).

      IIRC a DMCA takedown has to include a claim that they own the copyright on B (or are working on behalf of the owner), and if that's false then it's considered perjury - seems this would apply here because they wouldn't own B even if they have permission to use it under CC. This is distinct from the earlier case you mentioned, where they falsely claim you're infringing on their own content A - as long as they really do own A it's not perjury, even if the claim of infringement is false.

    3. Re:Won't work with false ownership claims by sirlark · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's what I said... "This particular case is very different". SONY don't own the copyright, and as far as I can tell, their not even claiming that they do. SONY didn't even take the clip down themselves, or issue a take down notice as far, again as far I can tell. Does the automation system actually file a take down notice technically, or does it just "take it down"? Does SONY corp fully control what's on the list of things to compare against for take downs? These are all questions that need answers before we can say exactly what happened. If google/youtube just assumes that anything in SONY controlled channels is owned by SONY (quite possible), then SONY didn't assert copyright ownership. Google/youtube asserted that SONY owned it, which is doubly fraudulent. This is a fuck up. It's a complicated fuck up, and it's a fuck up because google/youtube swings to far in favour of big media/MAFIAA. I'm not saying it's right, but this time, it's doesn't look direct malice.

    4. Re:Won't work with false ownership claims by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      If it wasn't direct malice, the block would have been removed ASAP. You just say it doesn't look direct malice because it is so blantantly malicious, you cannot imagine it happened.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    5. Re:Won't work with false ownership claims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem here is the automation. The system should, when a potential infringing case is identified, check the licence of Asshat Corp's claimed infringing content. In this case it would have been CC, so no need to take down. If Asshat corp had CHANGED the license, and the original was CC-SA, then the blender guys would have a very good reason to file suit.

      The problem isn't automation, the problem is that people accept automation as an excuse from responsibility.
      If they hadn't cut corners with the automation the problem wouldn't have happened. They are taking the risk to save money and everyone else pays.

      If we look at the actual actions taken, automation or not, Sony is claiming that they are the IP owner of Sintel and is enforcing copyright as if it is. They are also claiming that there is a completely different license than the one Sintel has.

      Yes, the blender guys have a very good reason to file suit.

  55. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about a modification to the CC license revoking permission to display/use any CC-licensed content if their name appears on a list of "established Title slanderers". If someone chooses to license CC-LIST, any one appearing on the list is excluded from the normal CC provisions.

    If sony, say, fraudulently claims titles repeatedly without basis, they are added (by the EFF or a board specifically created for this purpose) and lose rights to display hundreds of thousands of CC works.

    They may think twice before arbitrarily claiming copyright on things they don't own if being added to the list means they lose the collective output of everyone putting material out with this CC license flavor.

  56. purgery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    actually a false takedown notice is purgery which is a criminal act which the government is to sue on. But you will need to go to the police to file charges first.

    1. Re:purgery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the fuck is purgery? I think the word you look for is perjury.

    2. Re:purgery by dfsmith · · Score: 1

      It's when a cat files a false affidavit.

    3. Re:purgery by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      No, it isn't. There's two parts. One is to claim standing, that one is either the copyright holder of a certain work or authorized by the copyright holder. That's under penalty of perjury. The other is the claim that whatever is on the website infringes on the copyright of that work, and that isn't.

      I am the copyright holder on many things (not that I've registered any of them), so I could legally claim that I have a copyright to this picture of my cat (true), and your video infringes on my copyright (almost certainly false, but it isn't perjury).

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  57. Re:Perjury? Well, fraud maybe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/14/cz_dl_1014linksys.html - "Linux's Hit Men - ... So far, none of the Free Software Foundation’s targets have decided it is bad for the world and gone to court. This despite the fact that the foundation has $750,000 in the bank and one lawyer who works for free, part time, when he’s not teaching classes at Columbia University. "

  58. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > That's the problem: Sony didn't claim anything. It was just some pattern matcher whithin the bowels of Google. Oops.

    Youtube had a huge text up that completely clearly claimed this. There were no weasel-words or anything indicating that a mistake is possible.
    So yes, at least Google very much did claim so.

  59. Re:Perjury? Well, fraud maybe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Given that this is done by US companies operating under a US law, I'm pretty sure they'd give exactly zero shits if they got a false pretense claim from some other country.

    Considering that Blender foundation is a Dutch organization they could run this case in EU. EU is a larger market than the US and also has the guts to tell large companies to follow the law or GTFO.
    Sure, it would suck as an EU citizen to have to rely on Dailymotion for your cat videos but it is a hell of a lot better than handing over the legal system to profit driven companies.
    Not that it ever is going to happen, neither Sony nor Google are going to risk having to explain in their quarterly report why they no longer have access to their largest market.

  60. Re:Perjury? Well, fraud maybe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    And who's going to stop them?

    Since Blender is a Dutch organization it would be EU. If Sony ignores the copyright they will end up with an Antigua-situation where EU will essentially claim to WTO that since Sony doesn't follow copyright regulation they are exempt from it and all Sony IP is free for copying within EU.

  61. piratebay by Sarius64 · · Score: 1

    So the only place to view Sintel is piratebay now. There's some Sony genius.

    1. Re:piratebay by thue · · Score: 2
  62. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by msclrhd · · Score: 1

    > Sony claimed the Protected Work was *theirs*

    That's the problem: Sony didn't claim anything. It was just some pattern matcher whithin the bowels of Google. Oops.

    On the Sintel video from the BlenderFoundation account on YouTube:

    This video contains content from Sony Pictures Movies & Shows, who has blocked it on copyright grounds.

    That is an explicit claim associated with Sony Pictures Movies & Shows. To get that, Sony had to upload content to the YouTube content system saying "I own this content. Anyone matching it is in copyright violation."

    Also, the content ID system does not support Creative Commons or similar license usage (can use with attribution, can/cannot monetize the content, etc.) and does not work with collaboration/team events on multiplayer games, podcasts or discussions.

  63. Re:Perjury? Well, fraud maybe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If they're affecting a user in another country and operating in that country then they might well give a shit. You reckon Microsoft (a US company) didn't give a shit about all those EU fines?

  64. partial solution for the rest of us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) don't put your videos on YouTube
    2) don't buy Sony products and services

  65. I don't get it by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    Does that movie contain copyrighted material by Sony, yes? Then what is this fuss about? And why were they so stupid to include it, and whay are they wondering now that it got blocked?
    No? So what is the fuss, let the shitstorm start and support them to sue Sony for unrightfull claim of copyright.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    1. Re:I don't get it by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

      You need to read the summary again, more carefully this time.

    2. Re:I don't get it by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Sorry, the summary does not tell it.
      If you can read it between the lines please point it out.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    3. Re:I don't get it by ChumpusRex2003 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The summary is quite clear.
      Blender produced the video, Sintel, and publish it to Youtube under the creative commons license.
      Sony reuses the video as part of their 4k marketing material.
      Sony provides youtube with a "reference" copy of their marketing material, and tells youtube to find copies of the material and to exercise Sony's rights over it.
      Youtube finds the original Sintel video and matches it to a "reference" copyrighted work (Sony's marketing material).
      Youtube arranges for forced commercial licensing of the Blender video with proceeds going to Sony.

    4. Re:I don't get it by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Then Blender should simply clarify the fact versus youtube and be done with it or sue Sony ... or both.
      Simple. After all it seems to be we have thousands of involved witnesses who can clarify and give testimony on the truth.
      And no: your explanation is not clearly visible in the summary, for me the summary made no sense at all. (But I'm not an native english speaker). Even now with your clarification I don't see your sense in the summary.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    5. Re:I don't get it by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      If the video is left up, with money going to Sony, that's likely legally actionable. If Sony is no longer covered by the CC license, any use they make is actionable.

      I would hope Blender has registered their copyright, because that way they can get statutory damages.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  66. Use the system against them by purpledinoz · · Score: 1

    How about we all start sending take down notices claiming copyright on all Sony content, forcing all Sony content to be taken offline. Even better if we're able to take down all MAFIAA content off of YouTube.

    1. Re:Use the system against them by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Doesn't work. No website has to pay attention to DMCA notices; it's just that if they don't they're vulnerable to a lawsuit by the copyright holder. Sony is likely to sue. You're not, and unless the video is a genuine infringement of whatever copyright you've claimed under penalty of perjury, you're going to lose anyway.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  67. Counter sue the bastards by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    And make it hurt. Hurt bad. Both financially, and bad press.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  68. If "oops" is a defense by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    If Sony can just say 'oops' and get away with what amounts to piracy, ( even worse than a simple "copy", they claimed they owned it... ) then they have no right to sue anyone over infringement again and if they do, 'oops' damned well better be a valid defense for the people they sue too.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  69. DMCA: content back up if you respond by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Under DMCA, the video or other content is supposed to be immediately restored if you respond, saying it's not infringing. The DMCA calls this a counterclaim. It stays up unless the claimant files suit in federal court.

    The law should definitely be adjusted to reduce automated takedown notices, perhaps by strengthening the penalty for a reckless claim or requiring that the claimant investigate beyond "good faith belief". Other than that, the procedure defined in DMCA is actually pretty reasonable.

    1. Re:DMCA: content back up if you respond by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      No, the DMCA doesn't say the hosting company has to restore the content on receipt of a counterclaim. It says that, if the hosting company does that, it is not liable to whoever put up the content. This is a safe harbor provision, not a mandatory course of action. Since Google has no contractual agreement with anybody to keep the video up, they need not worry about such liability.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  70. Sony reported Sinel since Sony has a Sintel copy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Blender published Sintel -> Sony made a copy -> Sony reported Sinel as piracy, since Sony has a copy of Sintel

  71. fsck sony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FSCK sony... everybody dowload popcorn time.

  72. Re:Perjury? Well, fraud maybe... by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    http://www.forbes.com/2003/10/14/cz_dl_1014linksys.html - "Linux's Hit Men - ... So far, none of the Free Software Foundation’s targets have decided it is bad for the world and gone to court. This despite the fact that the foundation has $750,000 in the bank and one lawyer who works for free, part time, when he’s not teaching classes at Columbia University. "

    That eleven year old article is written from the POV that the FSF is the bad guy for enforcing the GPL and that somehow forcing companies to comply goes against the very idea of free open source software. Forbes has concluded it is bad to attempt to enforce copyrights and license agreements when it would force a large corporation to actually do what the license requires because it would open them up to competition. It complete ignores the option to not use GPL code; except for a passing note about some poor company that estimated it lost $10 million because it they licensed code and then scrapped the project and went to a BSD license when they didn't like the terms of the original license.

    It's really simple. If you don't want to share don't use GPL software. Use a BSD style license or develop proprietary code if you are worried about cloners. If your code is so integral to your product that releasing it would allow cloners to capture much of the market you probably shouldn't use the GPL or rethink your product. Apple probably chose the BSD license, in part, because it allowed them to develop an OS that had a stable core without having to open up their OS to cloners. They can share what they feel is appropriate and maintain MacOS unique to Apple. No one is stopping other companies from doing this; and Forbes' claim the FSF is demanding companies "burn down [their] house, or at the very least share it with cloners" is pure FUD. CISCO seemed to survive OK by complying with the GPL after FSF' lawsuit.

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  73. intentional loophole by Tom · · Score: 1

    The Blender people aren't the only ones. Many artists who make their work available under permissive licenses know about the problem. One music artist I use regularily for videos who makes all his work available under CC licenses even has a page on his webpage dedicated to the problem. It doesn't even matter if you link to his license page in the video comment. Filing a counterclaim works, but it sometimes takes a week to resolve it.

    Anyone still thinking it's a coincidence that the DMCA and related laws give you zero recourse for false claims?

    They really need to make it perjury to make a false claim.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  74. non sequitur by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what the fuck is wrong with you

  75. There is, Blender can sue by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Blender CAN sue for compensation. Maybe if the law specified treble damages for negligent filing the initial complaint, Sony might be more careful next time.

    1. Re:There is, Blender can sue by FirstOne · · Score: 1

      Blender can seek a lot more than just compensation of damages, punitive damages are in line as well. This is a criminal & commercial copyright violation (by Sony's agent) claiming ownership of property (perjury) that is not theirs. And subsequently using the purloined production for commercial exploration.

    2. Re:There is, Blender can sue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I wish that were true, without further details this is still purely a civil matter.

      The only DMCA claim made under penalty of perjury is whether the submitter legally represents the entity on whose behalf they sent the takedown notice. Unless Sony's lawyers don't actually represent Sony, no law has been broken by submitting a DMCA takedown notice, regardless of the veracity of any other claims. Everyone involved could know for a fact that Sony doesn't own any copyrights to the work in question, and that still wouldn't trigger the DMCA perjury clause.

      This is one of many reasons why the DMCA is a shitty law.

    3. Re:There is, Blender can sue by Samizdata · · Score: 1

      Wait...

      Sony being pirates?

      Say it ain't so...

      --
      It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage. - Colonel Henry Walton Jones, Jr., Ph.D.
  76. Movie is back up online by Technician · · Score: 4, Informative

    It seems to have been noticed and fixed.

    Link to video on Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

    --
    The truth shall set you free!
    1. Re:Movie is back up online by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same movie, but different instance of it.

    2. Re:Movie is back up online by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it hasn't, that links to a different Youtube account.

  77. yeah, I did that once. "free for everyone but MS" by raymorris · · Score: 1

    That would be interesting. I once licensed some software I wrote like that. My license specified it could be freely distributed by anyone other than Microsoft, their employees and affiliates.

  78. Well ... by Rambo+Tribble · · Score: 1

    ... people make mistakes. Then again, mistakes make people. At any rate, Sony is no stranger to making mistakes. All the good will they create with this stunt will surely bolster their flagging bottom line, like that wonderful rootkit they devised some time back. You really can't buy incompetence like that; you have to grow it yourself.

  79. Know what LIBEL is, prick? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You had to eat your words for it http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    1. Re:Know what LIBEL is, prick? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny Tom stfu disappearing after that post (not). Tom's busy "eating his words". Tom's polite (now that apk humbled him http://slashdot.org/comments.p... after that libel of Tom's for Tom's numerous mistakes). Tom doesn't talk with his mouth full (of his own words he had to eat).

  80. Re:Perjury? Well, fraud maybe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Start the Slander of Title proceedings. Then issue them a DMCA takedown for their now-infringing use. You don't use just one legal tactic to hand them their ass. You use them all. Get the EFF involved. Fund with Kickstarter. Use the tools available, and be sure to throw the book at them.

    If they want to live by the sword, they can die by it just as easily.

  81. You made this? by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

    I made this.

    --
    It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
    - E. Debs
    1. Re:You made this? by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      And to be fair to Sony, this is almost certainly the result of an automated scanning system that identified what it thought was Sony content, and blocked it per Sony's policy on their own content. Whether or not that should be a valid way of protecting one's IP is a separate question, but I'm 99% certain there's no malice on Sony's part here, and it will likely be resolved within a day or two.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
  82. Mod parent up. Legal point for case against Sony by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    That is an explicit claim associated with Sony Pictures Movies & Shows. To get that, Sony had to upload content to the YouTube content system saying "I own this content. Anyone matching it is in copyright violation."

    This is a very important legal argument to make in court. By submitting content to the system - or to YouTube in a way that would be interpreted as being "Copyright Sony, rights reserved" by the system - Sony knowingly made a claim of ownership.

    This both disparaged BlenderFoudation's title and voided their license to distribute the content, making further distribution by Sony subject to the $150,000 statutory damages penalty.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  83. Re:Perjury? Well, fraud maybe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's not true, you're just a lazy kind of person who just gives up on everything.

  84. Re:Mod parent up. Legal point for case against Son by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    ... making further distribution by Sony

    or their agents (i.e. YouTube, with Sony still on the hook for the money)

    subject to the $150,000 statutory damages penalty.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  85. Twitter campaign! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I suggest specifying @SonyPictures and the #SonySucks hashtag.
    Something like this:
    @SonyPictures Dear Sony asshat lawyers: How is this your content?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRsGyueVLvQ
    http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/04/06/007256/blender-foundation-video-taken-down-on-youtube-for-copyright-violation #SonySucks

    Let's see if we can get it trending on Twitter! :-)

  86. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by sstamps · · Score: 1

    It makes perfect sense, because it is germane to the issue, unlike your analogy.

    There's nothing saying that Sony can't have a DMCA takedown printing press ready to fill in the blanks and fire a billion of them off on a moment's notice, or the technological equivalent thereof.

    The fact that a) the video is blocked, b) on copyright (and, thus, statutory) grounds, at the behest of c) Sony says that the DMCA take-down process has been executed. If it hasn't, and YouTube just took it down willy-nilly, then they are liable for a plethora of legal challenges, including breach of contract and tortious interference with contractual relations.

    --
    -SS "Teach the ignorant, care for the dumb, and punish the stupid."
  87. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    you forgot to put IANAL in your post

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  88. Why not relieve the service provider of the burden by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It seems to me that Google registers a huge number of false copyright claims on Youtube. The DMCA should be amended to permit a provider to stop honoring DMCA takedown notices if it is determined that they receive more than 3 false claims in a calendar year from any one source. That would put the burden on the copyright holders to make sure that they have a valid claim and eliminate the robot approach that spur so many false claims.

    Arguably, if there was an infringement that took place that was anything beyond casual, it should be simple enough to identify. If it's small enough to completely slip under the radar, then it probably isn't worth the effort. For example, a baby video shared with friends where there's music in the background.

  89. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you forgot to put IANAL in your post

    Not everybody likes that.

  90. Not fixed by DeBattell · · Score: 1

    As far as I can see it is NOT fixed. It's just that it hasn't finished flagging all the different versions that were posted to different channels.

  91. That is because we are to stupid to make the law by ralphaostrander · · Score: 1

    Self correcting, make financially responsible if the claim turns out to be false. Including court and legal fees.

  92. Re:Perjury? Well, fraud maybe... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it time for me to list my services on Kickstarter... wet-ops for the FOSS community?

  93. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by exomondo · · Score: 1

    If it hasn't, and YouTube just took it down willy-nilly, then they are liable for a plethora of legal challenges, including breach of contract and tortious interference with contractual relations.

    Really? What contract? I'm not saying you're wrong I'm wondering whether Youtube would actually leave themselves open legally to such to things.

  94. Re:Blender should file a Counter Claim against Son by exomondo · · Score: 1

    Actually nevermind, it seems they don't leave themselves open to such things:
    The Terms of Service also state that "YouTube reserves the right to remove Content and User Submissions without prior notice," so YouTube takes the view that it can remove a video for any reason it likes.
    And given that it is their service I'm not sure where you are getting your information from.

  95. It's america, right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The promised land of lawyers. Where is the company that files standard counter suits for dollars? Or for cut of the compensation? Hello? Should be easy wins, right?

  96. Take a look muricans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's how you do it.

  97. Re:Perjury? Sony? Say it Ain't So. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please tell me you are joking. Imagine the brouhaha when Google stops serving the results of one of its competitors. Even if there wasn't, would you want Google to pick and choose whose results are returned?

    The issue, at its heart, is legislative in nature: it is bad legislation, poor enforcement, or both. This is an issue for Washington to fix.

  98. Terrible by PRMan · · Score: 1

    And there's no way for you to recover any lost wages? That's awful.

    --
    Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  99. Beta Sucks by PRMan · · Score: 1

    And Sintel is virtually already in the public domain, except for attribution.

    --
    Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  100. It's on Youtube again by Optali · · Score: 1

    Just watched in in HD.

    But it has had it's possitive side: People are pretty upset with this crap.

    And regarding the movie: I knew it. I knew it would end this way :P

    --
    -- 29A the number of the Beast
  101. Tom = multiple /. sockpuppet acct using trash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And libeler: How'd "eating your words" taste? See here http://slashdot.org/comments.p... were they flavorful (lol) seasoned with "the bitter taste of SELF-defeat" + YOUR FOOT IN YOUR MOUTH you bigmouth libelous Open SORES bullshitter?

    As to the rest of my subject, let's let TOM speak shall we:

    "I'm having great conversations on this site with one of my alias accounts" - by Tom (822) on Monday April 07, 2014 @02:29PM (#46686259) Homepage

    FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

  102. This isn't real! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This isn't true. The movie is still online. I just checked!

  103. Content Theft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google plus is trying to manipulate the Content provided by authors and ridiculously preventing You tube posts and comments on my own sections.
    Additionally Youtube has become permissive to dupicity-duplicate content COPY AS IT IS WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION. Who has given license without sense of Infringement ?
    The avowed intent and purpose of protecting the name and original authors get lost.