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Hewlett-Packard Admits To International Bribery and Money Laundering Schemes

Posted by samzenpus on from the was-that-wrong? dept.

First time accepted submitter CP (1315157) writes "Hewlett-Packard has admitted to [bribery and money laundering] in order to profiteer off of lucrative government contracts in Russia, Poland, and Mexico, according to court documents. HP's guilty plea carries with it a $108 million penalty — a combination of SEC penalties, as well as criminal fines and forfeitures paid out to the Department of Justice. Thus far no criminal charges have been brought against American HP executives. The multi-agency investigation, which was conducted by multi-national law enforcement partners, the FBI, IRS, and SEC, has revealed kleptocracies in the three foreign governments and corruption and dishonesty among HP corporate fat cats."

139 comments

  1. Corporations are not people by msobkow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Corporations are not people. They don't make decisions. Executives make decisions.

    Lock the bastards up.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:Corporations are not people by alphatel · · Score: 1

      Corporations are not people. They don't make decisions. Executives make decisions.

      Lock the bastards up.

      Hate to put it this way but considering the way HP has been failing so badly the past 5 years... saw it coming

      --
      When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
    2. Re:Corporations are not people by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1, Redundant

      In federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison

    3. Re:Corporations are not people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Agree,

      It wasn't the shareholders that did the bribing. Yet they're the ones that are going to be penalized. Everyone with a401(k) is essentially bribing the US government with the settlement to keep these executives from going to jail.

    4. Re:Corporations are not people by MathFox · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Executives make decisions.
      Lock the bastards up.

      Most likely one of the conditions of the settlement is that the executives are not prosecuted for their transgressions.

      And the executives will have the fine paid from the corporate funds... business as usual.

      --
      extern warranty;
      main()
      {
      (void)warranty;
      }
    5. Re:Corporations are not people by BurfCurse · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most of this happened longer than 5 years ago under different leadership. HP is still suffering from the mistakes of the past. HP was financially successful then but at a cost. This is the way people like Mark Hurd do business. Its all about short term gains. Being told your pay was being cut because of difficult times and it was necessary in order to survive, only to find out that 6 months later HP had record profits. That's why all the top performer's no longer work there.

    6. Re:Corporations are not people by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      This is HP we're talking about, I'm pretty sure none of their executives have been human since Carly Fiorina...

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    7. Re:Corporations are not people by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      If they didn't bribe in Russia, they'd get punished for failing to act in the best interest of the company's shareholders (which includes making business in Russia) instead. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    8. Re:Corporations are not people by alphatel · · Score: 1

      Most of this happened longer than 5 years ago under different leadership. HP is still suffering from the mistakes of the past. HP was financially successful then but at a cost. This is the way people like Mark Hurd do business. Its all about short term gains. Being told your pay was being cut because of difficult times and it was necessary in order to survive, only to find out that 6 months later HP had record profits. That's why all the top performer's no longer work there.

      So again, saw it coming

      --
      When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
    9. Re:Corporations are not people by kilfarsnar · · Score: 2

      Corporations are not people. They don't make decisions. Executives make decisions.

      Lock the bastards up.

      Of course, one of the purposes of a corporation is to limit liability. That way, if you start a business and fail, the creditors can't come after you personally. This is often seen as a good thing, encouraging risk taking without the fear of personal ruin. I might generally agree with that. But we are now seeing this limit on liability being used to shield decision-makers from the consequences of their decisions. This is especially true if the company is politically connected. What large company isn't these days? I'm starting to think the best way to commit crime is to start a corporation and have the "company" do it.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    10. Re:Corporations are not people by serviscope_minor · · Score: 4, Informative

      Really.

      Has there ever been a single documented case in the whole of history where the shareholders have ever successfully (or even unsuccessfully, for that matter) sued a company because the company wasn't doing enougl illegal stuff to bolster profits?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    11. Re:Corporations are not people by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 0

      What makes you think bribing people in Russia is illegal?

      Far as I can tell, it's pretty much part of doing business over there....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    12. Re:Corporations are not people by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Why do you assume they are being told? I'd think that if a CEO wanted to look good and to avoid having to answer questions like "why didn't we get that big deal in (say) Russia even though we were better and cheaper?", or to avoid being replaced by someone who'd promise greater profits - and subsequently got them, simply by being more willing to grease those foreign governments where it's a traditional custom - he wouldn't necessarily feel the need to discuss it to them.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    13. Re:Corporations are not people by afidel · · Score: 2

      No, corporations exist to protect the OWNERS, not the executives or the board. In criminal cases the government is perfectly capable of prosecuting the individuals who committed or ordered others to commit crimes.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    14. Re:Corporations are not people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bribes are pretty much illegal everywhere; government's hate them. The people that WORK in government, not so much however. But the institution is against the practice. Bribery, after all, is unreported - and untaxed - revenue. That's anathema to governments.

      Then there's that whole "ethical" thing about how bribery undermines justice and stuff, but that's never been as much a concern.

    15. Re:Corporations are not people by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      They quite often are the owners at least in part.

    16. Re:Corporations are not people by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then find the people responsible for the laundering and bribery five years ago and put them in jail.

      Never happens, though. Two-tiered justice system. If you're rich, you get fined instead of going to jail. Just gotta make sure the government gets its beak wet. If you're poor, lock 'em up and throw away the key.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    17. Re:Corporations are not people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Corporations are not people. They don't make decisions. Executives make decisions.

      Lock the bastards up.

      Under what law? That someone working for the same corporation but overseas committed what would be a criminal act had they done it in the US, but might be legal where it was performed?

      So if your brother moves to Saudi Arabia and gets three wives, we can lock YOU up for polygamy? That's what you're espousing.

    18. Re:Corporations are not people by doggo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And this is the problem, isn't it? Corporations shield corporate officers from criminal prosecution. The is the reform that needs to happen in the U.S., and the world.

      Criminal acts perpetrated by corporate agents need to be prosecuted. The agents, and their managers, up to the top level held responsible and subject to the criminal penalties.

      Or, at the very least, if we're going to continue to wrong-headed assertion that "corporations are people", then corporations need to be held accountable. If the "corporation" commits a crime that a human would be sentenced to a prison term for, that corporation should be stopped from doing business for the time of the sentence. No production. No trade. No accounts receivable/payable activity allowed. Dead stop.

      Corporate acts that result in human deaths, means the corporation gets the equivalent sentencing, whatever the normal human sentence is.

    19. Re:Corporations are not people by erikkemperman · · Score: 1

      You got that right. The amounts hardly matter. A case where the bribes ran well into the hundreds of millions was simply dismissed altogether in the UK (because it would inconvenience the Saudis, who threatened to take their business elsewhere when pressed on this issue) and ended with a slap on the wrist (relative to the sheer scale of the crimes) in the US.

      source.

      --
      Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
    20. Re:Corporations are not people by roman_mir · · Score: 0

      Lock them up for what?

      In Russia big business does NOT happen without involvement of government officials, who all EXPECT bribes and will NOT allow you to build your business if you do not pay them what they want.

      So HP or whoever it is, if they want to deal in Russia they will be paying bribes to the politicians, there is no way around it at all. You can either do big business in Russia and as an ABSOLUTE requirement you will pay bribes, or you can forget about that market completely.

      But hey, if you are talking about locking up the POLITICIANS that expect bribes, then I am 100% with you.

      --
      You can't handle the truth.
    21. Re:Corporations are not people by cusco · · Score: 2

      $108 million in fines for HP, but when Halliburton was caught handing out over $100 million to Nigerian officials while Cheney was CEO there wasn't even an investigation in the US (and I think the suit in France eventually evaporated while he was VP).

      Really, this is not likely to change the way HP or anyone else of that size do business. First, it is very unlikely that the fines amount to more than the profit generated by those sales. More importantly, the fines come long after the people involved have left the company in the game of Corporate Musical Chairs, so their grotesque income will be unaffected.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    22. Re:Corporations are not people by tomhath · · Score: 1

      It wasn't the shareholders that did the bribing. Yet they're the ones that are going to be penalized.

      In the end the shareholders might come out ahead, depending on how much HP "profiteered" in the first place.

    23. Re:Corporations are not people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was thinking along the lines of how MS and the rest get away with this same crap. Apparently this may be an attempt to put the final the nail on the coffin lid for HP. Or their that desperate to keep the ship from sinking...

    24. Re:Corporations are not people by savuporo · · Score: 1

      GM is coming up with the same excuses. Nobody is accountable because the corporation went through bankruptcy. 13 people dead and many injured, and they are telling people to make their keychains lighter.

      Long time ago, different leadership, company cannot be held accountable, blah blah.

      --
      http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slashdot.org Errors found while checking this document as HTML5!
    25. Re:Corporations are not people by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      Corporations are legally people. If a corporation commits a crime, it's corporate charter should be locked up for a few decades, and the corporation's freedoms should be limited to that given any other inmate. Do this, and suddenly you'll see a flood of individuals being held personally responsible.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    26. Re:Corporations are not people by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      Really.

      Has there ever been a single documented case in the whole of history where the shareholders have ever successfully (or even unsuccessfully, for that matter) sued a company because the company wasn't doing enougl illegal stuff to bolster profits?

      Interesting question. My guess would be no, for who would pursue expensive litigation on a premise so outrageous. On the other hand, I'll bet that more than one corporate officer has been quietly dismissed for exactly that reason.

    27. Re:Corporations are not people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Under U.S. law it's illegal for an American to give or offer a bribe anywhere in the world; it doesn't matter if it's normal in the nation it occurred in, the American still faces prosecution on his return to the U.S.A if the authorities find out about it.

    28. Re:Corporations are not people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bribing people in Russia is illegal in the US.

    29. Re:Corporations are not people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you come over and help me stuff all my money into a mattress?

    30. Re:Corporations are not people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fines are less than the total quantity of bribes, let alone the yield of those bribes.

      So yea, not going to change anything.

    31. Re:Corporations are not people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Far as I can tell, it's pretty much part of doing business over there....

      Something can be illegal and "pretty much part of doing business" simultaneously, it is the embodiment of corruption and lawlessness.

    32. Re:Corporations are not people by HugeFatty · · Score: 1

      I agree that corporations need to be held accountable for their actions, but imagine what could happen if we do what you suggest.

      Let's say it's your bank. Your ATM card, credit card, check book are now all useless. You can't pay your bills. You can't buy groceries.

      Or maybe it's your power company. If they're not allowed to produce, your lights go out. All of the food in your refrigerator goes bad. You don't have heating/air conditioning. You may not have hot water to bathe in.

      Or what if it was your employer? Some ass hole managers or salespeople that you may not have ever even met bribed someone, which you had nothing to do with. Now you don't get a pay check. Depending on how long it is, you may not have a job any more.

      If you shut down a whole corporation, you punish everyone that does business with them (who may not have a real option of doing business with anyone else), and you punish all of their employees (whether they had anything to do with the crime or not).

      I think it's better to punish the people who actually committed the crimes. And the people who knew about it but didn't do anything. And the people above them who reasonably should have known but were negligent in trying to stop or detect such things.

      --


      I am clearly fatter than you.
    33. Re:Corporations are not people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      stolen quote: "I'll believe a corporation is a person when Texas executes one."

    34. Re:Corporations are not people by mgcarley · · Score: 1

      Not just in Russia, that's for sure.

      --
      Founder & COO, Hayai India (hayai.in) / USA (hayaibroadband.com) // t: @mgcarley
    35. Re:Corporations are not people by mgcarley · · Score: 1

      I got asked by a CBP officer on one of the occasions I came in to the US last year if I paid bribes in India (I think it was at ORD).

      I answered him honestly (I'm neither American nor Indian) to which he replied that I was brave for doing business there and sent me on my way.

      --
      Founder & COO, Hayai India (hayai.in) / USA (hayaibroadband.com) // t: @mgcarley
  2. $108 million penalty by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That equates out to like a $5 fine for those outside of the corporate bubble...

    1. Re:$108 million penalty by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even inside the corporate bubble it's actually less than what a teenager could get for sharing a few music files with his friends.

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:$108 million penalty by Sockatume · · Score: 5, Informative

      HP's annual revenue is on the order of $100Bn, so $108m is about 0.1% of their income. The median US household income is about $40,000, so this would be equivalent to you receiving a $40 fine.

      For international bribery and money laundering.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    3. Re:$108 million penalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even inside the corporate bubble it's actually less than what a teenager could get for sharing a few music files with his friends.

      And as a result, everyone ignores the corporate lobbyist corruption engine, realizing they can't do fuck-all about it.

      There is another option, but I would hope society wasn't that ignorant or stupid to welcome this behavior and abuse by unwittingly voting for it..over and over and over again.

    4. Re:$108 million penalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about killing the lobbyists? Would that solve the problem? If that drives the lobbyists underground, kill the senators... :\

    5. Re:$108 million penalty by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      HP's annual revenue is on the order of $100Bn, so $108m is about 0.1% of their income.

      Revenue and income are two different things. Last year their revenue was $112B. Their income was $5B.

      HP 2013 Financial Report

    6. Re:$108 million penalty by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      How about killing the lobbyists? Would that solve the problem? If that drives the lobbyists underground, kill the senators... :\

      No, it would not. Others would take their place. And if enough were killed it would bring the power of the state down on you.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    7. Re:$108 million penalty by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      Question: how often are the profits from said illegal activity also forfeited on top of the fine? Is it "never" or is it "almost never"? Or am I being too cynical here? I'm not, am I? I'm being naive for even asking?

    8. Re:$108 million penalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      However, in this case "household income" is pretty equivalent to a corporation's revenue. When someone asks how much I make a year, I don't subtract all the money I spend and tell them how much I have left over.

    9. Re:$108 million penalty by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      However, in this case "household income" is pretty equivalent to a corporation's revenue. When someone asks how much I make a year, I don't subtract all the money I spend and tell them how much I have left over.

      So if a realtor sells a client's house for $500K, and earns a commission of 2%, then his income is $500K?

    10. Re:$108 million penalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A realtor does not make a sale. A realtor brokers a sale.

    11. Re:$108 million penalty by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      I'm comparing gross to gross. If you want net-to-net, the quantity you probably want is the household discretionary income* which is about $20,000. HP were fined 2% of their net income which for our imaginary household is $400.

      *After-tax income minus bills.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    12. Re:$108 million penalty by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      Only if he originally owned the home in the first place.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    13. Re:$108 million penalty by Mdk754 · · Score: 1

      Invalid claim. A realtor doesn't buy a house for $500K then mark it up 2%, they net 2% on the transaction. That 2% is their revenue, before expenses not after.

    14. Re:$108 million penalty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > No, it would not. Others would take their place.

      Then kill 'others'. Rinse and repeat. Eventually being a 'lobbyist' becomes too dangerous and gets replaced with something else. Start taking out 'something else'. Eventually it will become obvious which oficials are corrupt. Kill those oficials. Don't you know that the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants? Have you not noticed how this society everyday gets a bit less fair to the common man?

      > bring the power of the state down on you

      You assume you is one person. What if 'you' becomes one crowd? One mob? One city? One state? One nation? You seem not to realize that *they* have no power whatsoever, other than the power you give them everyday thru your inaction. I find it funny that almost every month there are news of people doing spree-killings followed by suicide. Tipical... had the balls to shoot but not the brains to aim properly. What if every month someone that allegedly has 'power' were to get shot dead? By someone who lost their job? Their home? What if a senator who whores for the medical insurance industry were to get shot by a person that was insured but was denied coverage? How soon change would come about? 'But they have security!' Make the security your target then. They are protecting someone who should be dead. What if the judge that says "they are too rich to know right from wrong" were to get killed? What message would that send?
      I know what you are going to say: a barbaric one. True. But how many years of court 'justice' would be saved? Study history and you will learn that Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Demand it with bullets and the demand becomes that much more pressing.

    15. Re:$108 million penalty by slashmydots · · Score: 1

      I seriously doubt that. The two largest companies in the world are valued at 80 and 81 billion approximately. Even after expenses, HP would be worth a hell of a lot of money after a few years if that 100 billion figure was correct.

    16. Re:$108 million penalty by slashmydots · · Score: 1

      And don't forget the CAN-SPAM violator that got like a 15 trillion dollar fine or whatever. $1000 per offense is $1000 per offense, lol.

    17. Re:$108 million penalty by tomhath · · Score: 1

      Yes, what they did was wrong according to US law. But it says more about how business is conducted in the other countries. HP had to choose between abandoning those markets or trying to get away with playing by the local rules. Now the SEC is slapping them with a ritual fine to show how shocked, yes shocked they are to learn this kind of thing is going on.

    18. Re:$108 million penalty by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      so HP income will be 4.9 billion this year

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
  3. Play by the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Of course, when the rules are designed to sabotage you, it's no wonder that Huweii is growing. It's not all HP's ineptness.Yes, it's all greased in most of the world. Deal with it.

    1. Re:Play by the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >corporate fat cats
      Blaming the players and not the governments that are rigging the game. Is the DOJ also going to prosecute the officials that were bribed?

      Enjoy watching your american companies lose contracts when some european, most asian, & all central/south american countries are pretty much run on bribes. And you wonder why the jobs are going overseas?

    2. Re:Play by the rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, when the rules are designed to sabotage you, it's no wonder that Huweii is growing. It's not all HP's ineptness.Yes, it's all greased in most of the world. Deal with it.

      It works that way in the US as well. US officials were not getting paid, so now that has been rectified with a court enforced bribe to the US Department of Gun Smuggling.

    3. Re:Play by the rules by yuhong · · Score: 1

      Yea, I am thinking that FCPA should probably be repealed.

  4. Thats a good business model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let US firms indulge in scams abroad... charge a part of their profit as 'penality'. Everyone is happy.

  5. And no charges will be filed by fredrated · · Score: 2

    That's how justice works now in this third-world like corruption that governs business in the good 'ol USA.

    1. Re:And no charges will be filed by qbast · · Score: 2

      From TFA: "The Polish government has elected to charge several individuals — both from HP and the government — in criminal cases in an investigation related to the guilty plea from HP" . So charges in fact have been filed, just not in USA.

    2. Re:And no charges will be filed by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 2

      So what? If the people charged with a crime ever go to Poland, this might actually mean something.

      Ban HP products from sale in within the EU for a year. That's a proper and reasonable response.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    3. Re:And no charges will be filed by Frobnicator · · Score: 2

      So what? If the people charged with a crime ever go to Poland, this might actually mean something.

      In the article (yeah, who bothers with that) you will note that it was several of the regional executives who were fired for bribes. They are not meaning the CEO level.

      So yes, it is quite likely that some of those regional executives do live in the affected countries, and it will definitely mean something as they no longer have corporate ties to fund their defense.

      --
      //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
    4. Re:And no charges will be filed by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      From TFA: "The Polish government has elected to charge several individuals — both from HP and the government — in criminal cases in an investigation related to the guilty plea from HP" . So charges in fact have been filed, just not in USA.

      Kind of makes Fredrated's point, eh?

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    5. Re:And no charges will be filed by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      You're quite right; I should stop relying on the stub to be in any way informative, or in fact accurate.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    6. Re:And no charges will be filed by slashmydots · · Score: 2

      You try and do business in crappy countries run by crooked assholes, this is what you have to do. Why do corporations not simply decide a country it too fucked up to do business in. If I was head of HP, first of all I'd fire everyone and shut down the company because they're basically a disease on the tech world. But besides that, I'd simply pull out of every messed up country until they get their shit together. It'd work like a non-UN trade embargo or sanctions that just occurs naturally. If Apple, Pepsi, HP, Microsoft, etc all started not selling their products in places until they cleaned up their acts, that's an awful lot of pressure on those countries!

    7. Re:And no charges will be filed by hendrips · · Score: 1

      Multitnationals refuse to do business is screwed up countries all the time. How much of a presence does Microsoft or Apple have in Zimbabwe?

      If you want a concrete example, one incident that's actually pretty well known is Coca-Cola refusing to do business in India from 1977 to 1993 after the Janta government tried to extort the formula for Coke and tried to partially nationalize the company's Indian operations.

    8. Re:And no charges will be filed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're just mad that HP reversed their notation. :P

  6. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh, Snap!

    They done messed with the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act].

  7. No subject. by Himmy32 · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Hewlett-Packard has admitted to in order to profiteer off of lucrative government contracts in Russia, Poland, and Mexico, according to court documents.

    It's cool if you want to take part of the story for the summary, but you dropped out an important part.

    The Original:
    Hewlett-Packard has admitted to creating and using slush funds for bribes, money laundering, and clandestine “bag of cash” handoffs in order to profiteer off of lucrative government contracts in Russia, Poland, and Mexico, according to court documents.

  8. In most of the world... by PortHaven · · Score: 1

    That's called business. In many places such bribes, and expenditures are just simply part of business. Those in government get paid low wages. The take is considered acceptable as long as its within reason.

    And many places like Eastern Europe, Asia, S. America. You're not building an office building without bribes.

    1. Re:In most of the world... by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 2

      oh.. ok. It's all right then. Never mind.

    2. Re:In most of the world... by Frobnicator · · Score: 1

      You're not building an office building without bribes.

      Actually, the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act takes that into account.

      They can pay people when it is made to an official to expedite his performance of the duties he is already bound to perform.

      Walmart almost got in trouble for that a few years back for building permits, but since they claimed the buildings would eventually be built anyway rather than swaying from a yes/no position, everything went away.

      This wasn't a normal "grease payment". A grease payment for a building permit is more like how you might tip your waiter after a meal; it isn't mandatory but is customary for continued good service in some parts of the world. The article describes things like flying government reps to the US for vacations and tourism, money laundering, and frequent deliveries of big bags of cash.

      --
      //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
    3. Re:In most of the world... by rmdingler · · Score: 1
      My guess is since it's still being reported on, and negatively at that, all is not lost. There will be negative PR consequences for HP above and beyond the fine.

      There is a danger the prevalence of corruption in big business and government will inure us all to expect no better from them, but those folks still paying attention should maintain their right to be outraged.

      Even if most of the World were truly accepting of this bribery for business model, we are not beholden to lower our own fleeting morality. It is not a okay to rape a man's wife even after he has raped yours.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    4. Re:In most of the world... by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      You missed the point and are being naive. Cultures and attitudes vary across the world - not every culture mirrors yours.

    5. Re:In most of the world... by benjfowler · · Score: 3

      Doesn't mean that all cultures are equivalent. I certainly wouldn't want my culture being considered equivalent to (say) the Dayak head-hunters, Nazi Germany or the Af-Pak tribal belt.

    6. Re:In most of the world... by benjfowler · · Score: 1

      Tipping is an odious, disgusting habit peculiar to America, which is the thin edge of the wedge to bribery and other forms of corruption.

    7. Re:In most of the world... by kilfarsnar · · Score: 2

      You missed the point and are being naive. Cultures and attitudes vary across the world - not every culture mirrors yours.

      What does that have to do with US law? HP broke US law. They should be held to account for that. If your point is that HP couldn't do business in these countries without breaking US law, then perhaps HP shouldn't do business in these countries. However, from what I read, they broke the laws of these other countries as well. So it seems that this is not simply how business is conducted. I understand that you can't get a building built on Staten Island without the okay from the local boss. But that doesn't make it right, and it doesn't mean we should just accept it as business as usual.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    8. Re:In most of the world... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >perhaps HP shouldn't do business in these countries
      and you will soon find that US companies are unable to compete internationally and foreign megacorps (Nestle, Vinci, etc) will move in and swallow them up.

      This has to be the dumbest law yet. All it does is make american companies look bad while foreign companies do whatever the fuck they want.

    9. Re:In most of the world... by stoploss · · Score: 2

      That's called business. In many places such bribes, and expenditures are just simply part of business. Those in government get paid low wages. The take is considered acceptable as long as its within reason.

      And many places like Eastern Europe, Asia, S. America. You're not building an office building without bribes.

      Right, as far as I understand it, you will not get business without bribes. However, thanks to Foreign Corrupt Practices Act this is illegal for US companies. Wat do?

      From what I hear, it's ideal to partner with a local firm to place the bid. Said local partner firm will charge you various "consulting fees" and you don't ask questions when you pay these invoices to your partner firm. I mean, who knows what they are doing? You are relying on them for local expertise, after all.

      Surprise, you win contracts without having bribed anyone. Must have been the technical merits of your bid package.

    10. Re:In most of the world... by markhb · · Score: 1

      Any waiter happening to read this article just pegged you as a Canadian.

      --
      Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.
    11. Re:In most of the world... by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      So, one has to break the law to participate in modern business? I have suspected that for a while now...

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
  9. and this is by ebonum · · Score: 1

    news?

  10. A win for America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd imagine any penalties will get refunded back to HP minus anything the SEC/DoJ wants to keep for themselves. It's a win for the US, and a loss for the offended countries.

    This is great for America...........just not for humanity.

  11. this shit is infuriating by Connie_Lingus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    to someone who lives, on a a daily basis, with the discrimination and stigma of being a convicted felon for minor drug offenses, these kind of articles piss me off to no end.

    these corporate douchebags can blatantly break federal, state, and international laws and not even lose their jobs, where people like me who got caught with some recreational substance see their entire careers and life go into the toilet.

    fuck those HP crooks, AND the DOJ they rode in on.

    --
    never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
    1. Re:this shit is infuriating by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 1

      Sometimes those criminals are even made governor of a state.

      Rick Scott...

    2. Re:this shit is infuriating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. Our punishment for repeat felons is to fine them less than the profit made through said felony? WTF!

    3. Re:this shit is infuriating by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      It reminds me of celebrities who can royally fuck up their lives with drugs and alcohol and still have an industry of enablers desperate to throw millions of dollars at them.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    4. Re:this shit is infuriating by PJ6 · · Score: 1

      Happens all the time.

    5. Re:this shit is infuriating by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      I would say you should read The Divide, but you're already living it.

      I sincerely hope you're able to escape your past and find peace and happiness.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    6. Re:this shit is infuriating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      to someone who lives, on a a daily basis, with the discrimination and stigma of being a convicted felon for minor drug offenses, these kind of articles piss me off to no end.

      these corporate douchebags can blatantly break federal, state, and international laws and not even lose their jobs, where people like me who got caught with some recreational substance see their entire careers and life go into the toilet.

      fuck those HP crooks, AND the DOJ they rode in on.

      I agree, but what is being done about it? Look at "The 99% vs 1%" demonstration, nothing really came out of it. Just hot air. The common people will keep voting people into the Government that will turn the blind eye to the rich corporations. And us yelling and screaming about it (on forums) without any true action is not helping either. I really think it is time the people stand up. But 99% of people are too afraid of losing their job, house, etc, so nothing will happen and these corporations will keep doing what they do and laugh all the way to the bank (their co-corporation that needs a kick too.)

    7. Re:this shit is infuriating by geek · · Score: 1

      a convicted felon for minor drug offenses

      Which is it? Felon or minor drug offense, because it can't be both. Possession is a misdemeanor. Intent to sell is a felony. I seriously doubt your sob story.

    8. Re:this shit is infuriating by slashmydots · · Score: 0

      Oh, so you didn't know that it's a felony to carry those items when you were? Or are you just like every other drug user where you think the laws are unfair and you're too special for them to apply to you and now you blame everyone else now that you got caught? I'm betting on the 2nd statement there.

    9. Re:this shit is infuriating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are you so terrified of personal responsibility? And if you claim you're not, then you're a lying piece of shit, because that is the ONLY possible reason you would have made that post.

    10. Re:this shit is infuriating by flanders123 · · Score: 1

      Don't hate the players, hate the game, my friend. The LAWS are the reason HP gets a slap on the wrist and you received an (alleged) unjust penalty.

      People don't like flopping in sports. Sure guys that flop look like douchebags, but they are just taking advantage of the rule. So change the rules!

      The corporate douchebags work VERY hard to influence lawmakers to pass laws that go easy on them....We unwashed masses do not do our due diligence....ie vote these crooked lawmakers out and elect officials who will overhaul of the political lobby system. Because, you know, that would require effort on our part.

      Just Sayin.

    11. Re:this shit is infuriating by Connie_Lingus · · Score: 1

      Which is it? Felon or minor drug offense, because it can't be both. Possession is a misdemeanor. Intent to sell is a felony. I seriously doubt your sob story.

      seriously doubt this then buddy...

      05-2008-CF-XXXXX-AXXX-XX DRUGS REOPEN DISP 03/20/2008 STATE VS [NOPE] DEFENDANT (1) 09/16/19XX ABCDEF
      Cnt Record No. Charge Dt Statute Charge Disp Dt Final Disp Citation No.
      2 1 03/19/2008 893.13.1.F-T POSSESSION OF HEROIN 04/17/2013 GUILTY 20116366GLK
      3 1 03/19/2008 POSSESSION OF ALPRAZOLAM XANAX 04/12/2011 DISPOSED BY PROSECUTOR 20116367GLK
      4 1 03/19/2008 POSS OF METHYLENEDIOXYMETHAMPHETAMINE MDMA 04/12/2011 DISPOSED BY PROSECUTOR 20116368GLK
      5 1 03/19/2008 893.13.6.A-AQ POSS OF MORE THAN 20 GRAMS OF CANNABIS 04/17/2013 GUILTY 20116369GLK
      6 1 03/19/2008 893.147.1-B USE OR POSSESSION OF DRUG PARAPHERNALIA 04/17/2013 GUILTY
      7 1 03/19/2008 316.193.1 DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE 04/17/2013 GUILTY 20118737XEC
      8 1 03/19/2008 322.34.1 DRIVING W LIC SUSP REV CANC W O KNOWLEDGE 04/17/2013 GUILTY 20116364GLK
      9 1 03/19/2008 316.217 DRIVING WITHOUT HEADLIGHTS 01/18/2013 PAID FINE OR CIVIL PENALTY 20116363GLK

      the H, and the 20+ grams of weed are all FELONIES...no "sales" .

      thank god i kicked the whole mess, but this is basically a life sentence career wise.

      --
      never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
    12. Re:this shit is infuriating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, so you didn't know that it's a felony to carry those items when you were? Or are you just like every other drug user where you think the laws are unfair and you're too special for them to apply to you and now you blame everyone else now that you got caught? I'm betting on the 2nd statement there.

      Are you implying that these laws AREN'T unfair and that it's NOT everyone else's (voters) fault? You appear to be the crazy weasel here.

    13. Re:this shit is infuriating by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      This has been going on for a long time. GE contaminated numerous sites which were declared superfund sites--to be cleaned up with tax payer money. they were fined...butthe fine was a fraction of their revenue and profit...a small fraction. the government's enforcement only promoted more failures.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    14. Re:this shit is infuriating by geek · · Score: 1

      So you were DUI (enough right there for me to pass you up for a job as I don't think you're a good person putting peoples lives at risk on the road) and 20 grams is certainly enough for any court to believe you had intent to sell it. Besides, you knew it was illegal but did it anyway. You now want to blame society for your stupidity.

      Couple all of that with your obvious lack of intelligence and for the life of me I can't figure out why no one would want to hire you

    15. Re:this shit is infuriating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Couple all of that with your obvious lack of intelligence and for the life of me I can't figure out why no one would want to hire you

      Your blatant lack of empathy combined with a seemingly non-existent intention to give people a second chance - they may have changed a lot since the transgressions in the past - is depressing. Behavior such as yours makes things worse. I hope I have gravely misunderstood what you actually stand for.

    16. Re:this shit is infuriating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately I think you were spot on what the fucker intend to say. There were too many Republicans who called themselves "Christians" yet are not forgiving at all, contradict to Christ teachings.

    17. Re:this shit is infuriating by geek · · Score: 1

      Couple all of that with your obvious lack of intelligence and for the life of me I can't figure out why no one would want to hire you

      Your blatant lack of empathy combined with a seemingly non-existent intention to give people a second chance - they may have changed a lot since the transgressions in the past - is depressing. Behavior such as yours makes things worse. I hope I have gravely misunderstood what you actually stand for.

      For starters, he expresses no remorse. It's blame blame blame

      So no, he isn't hirable under any circumstances. Neither are you from your attitude.

    18. Re:this shit is infuriating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope you don't run any business or if you do, get chapter 7'ed so that less people will get jurt.

  12. The cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They have the fines allocated as the cost of doing business.

    1. Re:The cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They might make a deal to pay the fine with their ink-jet ink, also called "liquid gold".
      With some fancy book-keeping, price value of one printer's worth of ink may be around 80 USD cost to make about 50 cents then they take a tax write-off on paying the fine.
      The biggest crooks are not all in jail, many of them hide behind laws made for corporations that shield them from getting arrested.

  13. well, it takes two to tango... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am Greek so i know few things about the general problem of companies from countries with better ethics (e.g., USA, Germany) trying to do bussines in countries with "flexible" ethics (Russia, Poland, Mexico, and -in a lesser degree- Greece): even with the better offer they will be excluded if they don't provide some "oil" (that's how we call it in Greece) - those companies are extorted in reality, and usually left to get the whole blaim if revealed.
    I understand that it takes two to tango, and the companies must not corrupt with offers the goverment officials, but... it takes two to tango!

    1. Re:well, it takes two to tango... by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      Really, Greece less corrupt than Poland!!! You are on the crack pipe mate. The Corruption perceptions index 2012 has Poland scoring 58 and ranked 41 in the world, where as Greece manages just 36 and is ranked 94. Greece has the worst corruption problem in the whole of the E.U. including all the ex communist states. Greece can only dream of having as little corruption as Poland.

    2. Re:well, it takes two to tango... by benjfowler · · Score: 1

      We have the Ottomans and their dysfunctional culture to thank for that. They are the ones who brought in different rules for different groups, and they are the ones who indirectly legitimized corruption in southern Europe. It's a wonder that we are as nice to the Turks as we are, considering the damage they've done.

    3. Re:well, it takes two to tango... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      even with the better offer they will be excluded if they don't provide some "oil" (that's how we call it in Greece)

      The rest of the world calls it "Greece". Or was it "grease"? I wonder if there's a connection...

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    4. Re:well, it takes two to tango... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am the "parent" who made the comment with the claim that Greece is less corrupt than Poland.
      The "Corruption Perceptions Index" (from Transparency International) you reference is "...based on how corrupt their public sector is perceived to be." (from their explanation). Anyone that knows anything about the issue knows that Greece is much less corrupt than Poland regardless of what that index claims. In case you are from Poland, and because i don't want this to become personal, i will give you some other examples about that -flawed- index (using their newest -2013- publication - keep in mind that Greece is in a better place now, simply because 2012 was a year that internationally the media reports about our crisis was constant effecting how the world perceived Greece).
      In that index Turkey and Bulgaria (both neibour countries with Greece, and i know both countries very well) are in better place from Greece, and Turkey is in better place from Italy - well, anyone that knows anything about the issue knows how rediculus that is. A fellow Greek gave you a good explanation about the Ottoman/Turkish occupation of Greece and how badly effected the ethics of us Greeks, but please believe me we are certantly not more corrupt from them, and surely Italians are not (we Greeks, because deep down are ashamed for that behaviur, use the Turkish word "baksis" for those kind of "deals").
      Anyway, i don't try to pretend that we are Germans or Scandinavians - just not as corrupt as people think.

    5. Re:well, it takes two to tango... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, i am from Poland and my perception is that Greece is more currupt than Poland - not as much as index shows but definitely. You may be mistaking Poland for Romania or Bulgaria.

      Take for example tax evasion - I read about things happening in Greece that are hard to imagine in Poland
      - property tax is pretty well executed in Poland, income tax as well - I went through procedures of suspected tax evasion procedures several times - usually without merrit - and I am just a small, slightly above average income guy.

      Another example are cases of cheating about EU agricultural funds - control in Poland is pretty well executed and nothing live cirtual olive groves is possible.

  14. US equivalent of Bribery Act by benjfowler · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In the UK, we have a particularly strict law called the Bribery Act 2010, which is good, because it not only prohibits giving and receiving bribes to win business, but it also prohibits failing to prevent it.

    Does America have anything even close? I suppose I shouldn't be surprised if they don't, because the US rent-seeker corporate Right would fight it tooth and nail.

    1. Re:US equivalent of Bribery Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, we deliberately gut our ability to compete in eastern uerope, africa, south america and china by having a very similar legislation.

    2. Re:US equivalent of Bribery Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you even read the summary? Why do you think HP was given a $108 million fine? Jesus fucking Christ..

    3. Re:US equivalent of Bribery Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does America have anything even close?

      In the US it is the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977 (FCPA).

    4. Re:US equivalent of Bribery Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes. It's wildly illegal to give or accept bribes in the US though the bit about failing to prevent it is left to the vagueries of the justice system. The main point of our anti-bribery laws is that jurisdiction more or less doesn't matter. I.e. if you go to Egypt on business and bribe a customs official to let you in on a tourist visa and get caught and charged, when you get home you'll be charged with bribing a foreign official even though the crime was not committed in the US.

      Unequivocally, it is illegal for Americans to pay bribes anywhere it's not legal to do so, which is everywhere. In the US we get around this by using charities and campaign contributions. Among other things.

    5. Re:US equivalent of Bribery Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nowadays bribery is called "lobbying", so even if there were such a law it would be ignored.

  15. WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They bribed foreign governments for business, and now they have to bribe the US government... for what? What does this have to do with US at all?

  16. Oh Boy by rohis · · Score: 2

    Here comes to layoff to make up estimated $200m shortfall in revenue. (Management will stay the same so we can increase revenue further)

  17. Re:NO It did not do that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good job, great post.

  18. OK, $800 then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Not that it looks better now. $800 for bribery and money laundering

  19. Different justice systems... by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

    Matt Taibbi from Rolling Stone was on the Daily Show a few nights back, pimping his book The Divide. This is what happens in our two-tiered justice system. Steal big, and maybe you have to give some of the money you stole to the government, but no jail time. Steal small, jail.

    Really, it comes down to whether or not you can bribe the government. So long as the government's gettin' its beak wet, they don't really care about international bribery and money laundering.

    --
    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  20. Frank Drebbin Sez: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nothing to see here. Move along.

  21. I have an idea by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    The US military should just drop bombs on their headquarters. That would get rid of HP's perpetually unfair bullshit forever and single handedly double the quality of laptops and printers as a whole worldwide. And secondary targets should be Open Candy and Conduit's headquarters.

    Vote Slashmydots for president, 2016 - "We'll bomb our way to a better tech world."

    1. Re:I have an idea by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      luckily for me, even though I work for HP, we are in a bomb-proof building built to survive the Cold War nukes...the original SABRE home, so that sounds like job security to me.

  22. No, not that Homer by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    This is why people in those countries go into government in the first place -- so you can ge in the way of things so you can get paid to get back out of the way.

    This happens in the US, too, but not as much (or, a lot more, based on dollars, but with a much more polished meme cover story).

    "Well, look at that. Those oil or pharmas are having unconscionable profits agin', Homer!"

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  23. Let the locals deal with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let the locals deal with them how they want to. Not the US, not the US's problem.

    1. Re:Let the locals deal with them by PPH · · Score: 1

      This.

      If its not illegal in the country the act was committed in, why should we bother with it? Or maybe Russia and Mexico should start inditing companies for participating in our corrupt patent system.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Let the locals deal with them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm lets take that rope and travel to the end of it.

      Why stop child killing, pedos traveling internationally to lands that don't care, recording their deeds and bringing the recordings home for later enjoyment.

      An alternative issue is what if it is only 'legal' due to the illegal activities of the company involved. See a number of large corporates stoking civil wars to get law changes through with a change of government.

    3. Re:Let the locals deal with them by PPH · · Score: 1

      Why stop child killing, pedos traveling internationally to lands that don't care, recording their deeds and bringing the recordings home for later enjoyment.

      Because possession of that material in this jurisdiction is illegal.

      Do you actually know of any countries where this sort of activity is legal?

      An alternative issue is what if it is only 'legal' due to the illegal activities of the company involved. See a number of large corporates stoking civil wars to get law changes through with a change of government.

      As long as the civil war is won, the corporations activities are legal, or are pardoned by the new government. But how is this different than contributing to the GOP to help them regain control of both legislative houses and then getting laws changed and current programs canceled?

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  24. Do not hassle the people giving bribes by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    That would be wagging the dog. Nail the ones who take them. They are the criminals.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  25. $108 million fine... by edibobb · · Score: 1

    ... in exchange for how many billion dollars in profit?

  26. THREE FELONIES A DAY by ub3r+n3u7r4l1st · · Score: 1

    http://www.threefeloniesaday.c...

    I guess you remember every single law that was being enacted huh?

    Big Government shill like you is the exact reason why Hitler, Mao and Stalin came to power.

    --
    New Economic Perspectives
  27. DUI by ub3r+n3u7r4l1st · · Score: 1

    If I am an employer I will look past the possession part, but the DUI, driving w/ license suspended etc probably call for some questioning of judgement.

    --
    New Economic Perspectives
  28. Employee ethics training time again! by anvilmark · · Score: 1

    Because every time an HP leader breaks the law the employees must take the training.

  29. Globalization by NewYork · · Score: 1

    In globalization, every MNC is a Pyramid/Ponzi scandal.

    --
    Casteism