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New French Law Prohibits After-Hours Work Emails

Hugh Pickens DOT Com (2995471) writes "Lucy Mangan reports at The Guardian that a new labor agreement in France means that employees must ignore their bosses' work emails once they are out of the office and relaxing at home – even on their smartphones. Under the deal, which affects a million employees in the technology and consultancy sectors (including the French arms of Google, Facebook, and Deloitte), employees will also have to resist the temptation to look at work-related material on their computers or smartphones – or any other kind of malevolent intrusion into the time they have been nationally mandated to spend on whatever the French call la dolce vita. "We must also measure digital working time," says Michel De La Force, chairman of the General Confederation of Managers. "We can admit extra work in exceptional circumstances but we must always come back to what is normal, which is to unplug, to stop being permanently at work." However critics say it will impose further red tape on French businesses, which already face some of the world's tightest labor laws." (Continues) "However according to Simon Kelner French productivity levels outstrip those of Britain and Germany, and French satisfaction with their quality of life is above the OECD average. "No wonder, we may say. We'd all like to take a couple of hours off for lunch, washed down with a nice glass of Côtes du Rhône, and then switch our phones off as soon as we leave work. It's just that our bosses won't let us.""

26 of 477 comments (clear)

  1. At least someone appreciates work-life balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If I'm off the clock, I should be able to completely ignore work and everything work-related. I should be able to leave my work smartphone in the office.

    1. Re:At least someone appreciates work-life balance by pezpunk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      i agree. unfortunately, that's "un-American".

      --
      i could live a little longer in this prison
    2. Re:At least someone appreciates work-life balance by therealkevinkretz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In a fair world you'd be able to accept more responsibilty in exchange for a set of benefits (salary, etc) you considered fair. I've interviewed for (and been offered and variously accepted) jobs ranging from a 9-to-5 position for a utility company that would be very stable and practically permanent to one at a startup with a small staff that meant only a couple of people were responsible for crucial 24/7 infrastructure. The former paid less but was, again, stable. The latter paid more, with promise of reward should the company succeed (it didn't).

      If I'm willing to carry a mobile device outside of business hours, what bureaucrat's business is it to tell me I can't?

    3. Re:At least someone appreciates work-life balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If I'm willing to carry a mobile device outside of business hours, what bureaucrat's business is it to tell me I can't?

      Exactly! If you choose to accept the responsibility of the job, extending to after-hours work, then you should have the right to do so unmolested. However, a business should not *require* this of anyone who is not willing to do it. If the job will need 24/7 support, then the business should be up front about that when hiring for the position.

    4. Re:At least someone appreciates work-life balance by fustakrakich · · Score: 4, Insightful

      he last thing France needs is yet another reason for businesses to locate elsewhere.

      Yes, it would be nice if the rest of the world caught up. There is no reason to make anybody work more then 6 hours a day, 30 hours a week...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    5. Re:At least someone appreciates work-life balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If I'm willing to carry a mobile device outside of business hours, what bureaucrat's business is it to tell me I can't?

      Exactly! If you choose to accept the responsibility of the job, extending to after-hours work, then you should have the right to do so unmolested. However, a business should not *require* this of anyone who is not willing to do it. If the job will need 24/7 support, then the business should be up front about that when hiring for the position.

      The fundamental problem is that it's another Race to the Bottom. Once Company A demands workers do work above and beyond what fits in a workday, then Company B will feel pressed to to likewise to maintain competitiveness. Followed by Company C, and so forth until it becomes the new normal.

      Once upon a time in the USA many localities had laws that forbade businesses to be open on Sundays. That went by the board because it's not just companies that compete - the work-on-Sunday towns touted their lack of restriction when wooing new business just like the South still does with regard to labor unions and right-to-work.

    6. Re:At least someone appreciates work-life balance by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your lack of planning is not my emergency.

      If you can't manage the boundaries imposed by normal office hours then you have failed to adequately manage your people and resources.

      Most after hours work is just unpaid overtime that companies can only get away with because they have managed to get certain classes of corporate serf declared exempt from labor standards.

      Overtime is a management failure.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    7. Re:At least someone appreciates work-life balance by freeze128 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's *REALLY* American is to read work-related emails after work hours ONLY as long as you are COMPENSATED for it. Nobody said we have to work for free!

    8. Re:At least someone appreciates work-life balance by ultranova · · Score: 3, Insightful

      or gossip with their coworkers at the coffee pot/water cooler outside of designated break times.

      Fair enough. And in turn the employer can't expect the employees to take into account anything that hasn't been formally explained to them through official channels, having banned unofficial ones. I suspect the end result would be an utter disaster, but then again, bean-counting usually is.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    9. Re:At least someone appreciates work-life balance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What's *REALLY* American is to read work-related emails after work hours ONLY as long as you are COMPENSATED for it. Nobody said we have to work for free!

      Everyone is compensated for it, even if the compensation is as small as "You get to keep your job."

  2. What the French call la dolce vita? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Isn't that Italian?

    1. Re:What the French call la dolce vita? by kruach+aum · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The original said "whatEVER the French call la dolce vita", implying that the writer of that sentence is aware that French and Italian are two different languages.

  3. Good by guytoronto · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Tight labour laws are not something to be feared.

    1. Re:Good by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, they are. Unrestrained legalism isn't the virtue that you think it is. It is the means of tyranny uses to creep into our world. But you're okay with tyranny, as long as it is your kind of tyranny, and that is a pity.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    2. Re:Good by QuantumPion · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So basically "slow down over there, you're making the rest of us look bad" enshrined into law.

      Next thing you know, they'll be passing a law so that companies must pay salary based on employees need rather then their productivity, because it's not fair that an engineer with a big family gets paid less than a single engineer just because he's not as good at the job.

      I swear, it's as if these people read the first half of Atlas Shrugged and said "oh hey, that's a good idea, let's do that!"

  4. A law for everything... by MrLogic17 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ah, so this explains why Silicon Valley is located in France.

    Seriously, if someone wants to work crazy hours, why not let them?

    I had that phase in my career, and it paid off. I'm in a different phase now. I just choose not to work after hours. If my employer didn't like that, I'd have found a better job by now. Same thing for travel - I used to travel a ton. Now I don't want to, and so I found a place to work with no travel. I'm a grownup, I can take care of myself, thank-you-very-much.

    1. Re:A law for everything... by guytoronto · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We don't let people work crazy hours because it allows employers to take advantage of the desperate, poor, and ignorant.

    2. Re:A law for everything... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seriously, if someone wants to work crazy hours, why not let them?

      Nothing stopping you.

      All this says is the boss can't fire you for not replying to his out-of-hours email.

      (Previously, he might have made an attempt to accuse you of "faut grave", a grave dereliction of duty, which could get you fired without unemployment insurance).

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    3. Re:A law for everything... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because Prisoner's Dilemma, that's why. Left to their own devices (i.e., without exterior constraints) free agents can wind up in a state that's pessimal for everyone.

      If Alice, Bob, and Carol are all hungry and desperate enough to work themselves to death, and Dave isn't, who do you think employers are going to hire, all things being equal? Yes, there are exceptional people out there who have the talent and skills (and, at least in my case, fortune of birth) sufficient to offset that. But I don't think an economy which only works for the exceptional and screws over most people is long-term sustainable.

  5. get rid of salary pay / make it have a high level by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    get rid of salary pay / make it have a high level before you get out of having to pay OT.

    once workers start billing OT for doing work stuff at home then it will stop.

  6. Re:Wrong way to go about it... by Raumkraut · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So what do you do about colleagues in other time-zones? Or on other shifts? Are they not allowed to email you outside of the times you're both at work - assuming there is any overlap at all?

    Email is not IM; it's not designed to require or expect an immediate response. Nothing about sending an email necessitates that it must be acted upon immediately.

  7. Re:In other news... by taylorius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "France fails at having an Internationally competitive workforce."

    Good for them. In the race to the bottom, France's "failure" sounds more fun than being the winner.

  8. Re:Do you really need to legislate this stuff? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You clearly never worked in a factory..

  9. Re:get rid of salary pay / make it have a high lev by royallthefourth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    See what that gets you after a few years when your salary has effectively dropped 5% due to raises failing to keep pace with inflation. Where do you turn when all the jobs in town are shit and your pay is stagnating? There's not always an individual option available.

    At that point, the only option left will be collective action against the company. The only question remaining is how long it will take for tech workers to pull their heads out of their asses and realize that half of them will never afford retirement at the current pace of things.

  10. Re:morons by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Until your boss starts howling that he sent you an email at 8pm and you didn't reply to it until morning.

    Increasingly, companies are expecting you to put in your day, and then still work all of the rest of the day.

    My wife's company just keeps scheduling after hours work, piling on the day to day work, and expecting that people will magically do their full work week and cover all of the after-hours work.

    At a certain point, companies need to understand they don't own the right to all of your time in a week, and there is a point in the day where you say "and, I'm finished for today".

    But companies want to run their employees like rented mules.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  11. Re:Feel free to do so! Just recognize that your by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And expecting "free" healthcare is in some ways a form of bitching about others being more successful...

    No, it's a sign that you live in a civilised society.

    People shouldn't go bankrupt because they are sick, or have to choose which severed finger to have reattached because they can only afford one. Children shouldn't go without treatment because their parents can't afford it. Yet all those things happen in America.