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Oracle Deflects Blame For Troubled Oregon Health Care Site

Posted by samzenpus on from the who's-to-blame dept.

itwbennett (1594911) writes "Oracle is gearing up for a fight with officials in Oregon over its role developing an expensive health insurance exchange website that still isn't fully operational. In a letter obtained by the Oregonian newspaper this week, Oracle co-president Safra Catz said that Oregon officials have provided the public with a 'false narrative' concerning who is to blame for Cover Oregon's woes. In the letter, Catz pointed out that Oregon's decision to act as their own systems integrator on the project, using Oracle consultants on a time-and-materials basis, was 'criticized frequently by many'. And as far as Oracle is concerned, 'Cover Oregon lacked the skills, knowledge or ability to be successful as the systems integrator on an undertaking of this scope and complexity,' she added."

27 of 163 comments (clear)

  1. It's Not Really Oracle by Greyfox · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's that people think they can drop Oracle on top of a crappy design and that will somehow magically fix it. By the time people get done trying to use brute force, ignorance and massive amounts of IT resources, you may as well have Dbase III on your back end. Oracle might let you get away with a shitty design if your application didn't really need a database, but it's not going to help you that much if what you're trying to do is complicated enough to need one.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:It's Not Really Oracle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oracle's database is quite good. With proper tuning and schemas, Oracle is amazing. It's totally a hardcore geek's RDBMS.

      This article is more about their consulting services. Ultimately, Oregon had the final decision. If they hired Oracle and said, "here you handle this whole thing," that's one thing. If they hired Oracle and said, "we need you for support, but we call the shots," that's entirely another. If Oregon didn't have a single person driving it, making final decisions, setting deadlines, and did all that by committee, it's easy to see how something that complex can get bogged down.

      Bet your bottom dollar Oracle covered their asses with a formal spec and timeline process, and every extension of the critical path was documented and signed off on. I don't think this will look good for the state of Oregon.

    2. Re:It's Not Really Oracle by arth1 · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I met the statement bitch once, and she was very clear on what she meant.

    3. Re:It's Not Really Oracle by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Oregon's health website is a monstrosity. They budgeted way too much money, were way over ambitious, and involved way too many people. The opposite end of the spectrum is Kentucky, which budgeted the least amount of money, and was thus forced to implement a streamlined site with a small lean team. Kentucky's website was ready on Oct 1st, and has run since without a hitch.

    4. Re:It's Not Really Oracle by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      It's that people think they can drop Oracle on top of a crappy design and that will somehow magically fix it.

      That's probably what the sales-person told them.

      "Just drop your leaky little app into our Oratron Fix-O-Matic 5000 and out will pop perfect shiny reports and data! You have my trustworthy word!"

      However, seems they forgot to get it in writing.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    5. Re:It's Not Really Oracle by BoRegardless · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What you are really saying is that Oracle knew Oregon's exchange would be a POS before they even signed the consulting contract because of the lack of Oregon bureaucrat skills, but they took the contract anyway because they knew they could as they say MILK IT!

      Since they knew full well it would fail, they would document everything to the hilt, including specific warnings, while padding up the consulting, knowing full well that they would never finish the job, but would get paid a pile of money anyway to add to Larry's billions.

    6. Re:It's Not Really Oracle by alexborges · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well yeah. But if this was the case, then the buyers are to blame: if they were going to wing it, they would have been way, way better hiring opensource consultants and an open source database and then get to coding like hell and even open source their whole op. If the case is that the state didnt purchase a fire and forget project, then they are as stupid as the oracle salesmen is a ghoul.

      A word for 'buyers': if you are going to go macho on a thing like this, you cant be a little bitch and buy oracle. You go at it like a man and actually learn to code.

      --
      NO SIG
    7. Re:It's Not Really Oracle by vux984 · · Score: 2

      But if this was the case, then the buyers are to blame

      If the buyer orders a perpetual motion machine then he's an idiot.

      But any engineers and consultants taking money to work on the project are morally bankrup too.

  2. Enh as much as I dislike Oracle... by roc97007 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...in this case, they might have a point.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:Enh as much as I dislike Oracle... by plover · · Score: 2

      Oracle consultants were in the midst of the mess, they saw the failings, they repeatedly reported to the state that the project was going off the rails, and yet they still managed to cash their paychecks.

      Had the consultants actually threatened them with "either you hire a professional to do the systems integration or we're off the job," and had they then removed themselves from the failing project, they'd be 100% blameless. But they didn't walk away, they just wrote some CYA memos and collected their money.

      Oracle gets to take as much blame as anyone for their mess.

      --
      John
    2. Re:Enh as much as I dislike Oracle... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 3, Informative

      Oracle consultants were in the midst of the mess, they saw the failings, they repeatedly reported to the state that the project was going off the rails, and yet they still managed to cash their paychecks.

      Then the consultants were doing their jobs.

      Had the consultants actually threatened them with "either you hire a professional to do the systems integration or we're off the job," and had they then removed themselves from the failing project, they'd be 100% blameless. But they didn't walk away, they just wrote some CYA memos and collected their money.

      But it was not the consultants' job to do this. In fact, if they'd walked off the job as you advocate, they'd very likely be opening themselves up to a lawsuit for breach of contract.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    3. Re:Enh as much as I dislike Oracle... by TapeCutter · · Score: 3, Informative

      What the GP is suggesting is that Oracle the company (as opposed to the individual consultants) should have walked away from a taxpayer funded money pit but chose to continue "taking candy from a baby". Other's have walked away from similar disasters in the past in very public fashion, IBM walked away from a $800M project in NZ in the late 90's and Fujitsu walked away from a $1B project in the UK a few years ago, both claimed to be happy with the profit levels but were unwilling to continue because the government were unwilling/unable to follow their project management advice, making it impossible for them to deliver. Multinationals do not want to be seen as being unable to deliver a government contract, government work is their bread and butter and in politics reputations matter. Oracle didn't take the "high road" when their own consultants were predicting disaster, now they are getting public blowback from the client, which is why their PR department has fired up on this issue.

      OTOH Oracle (as their PR points out) were not managing the project they were on a time and materials contract, which most people in the industry would understand as meaning "we will give you what you ask for, but don't blame us if it is not what you want". The client obviously wasn't listening to the "don't blame us" part when they signed the contract.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  3. Never bring politics... by tlambert · · Score: 4, Funny

    Never bring politics... to an electronic documentation of timeline fight with a database company.

    1. Re:Never bring politics... by litehacksaur111 · · Score: 2

      Oracle does this on nearly every project they work on. Same with IBM, TCS, Wipro, etc. All of those H1B visa abusing companies will never deliver on what they say and instead will fight the meaning of every word in the contract.

    2. Re:Never bring politics... by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 2

      indeed, WiPro originally was a vegetable oil manufacturer, and stands for Western India Products Limited. I've dealt with them many times via supporting clients while working support at HP. Once you can get past the Indian's odd "your a stupid American" attitude (which usually I can't blame them!) they are mostly competent. In my situation, most of their "issues" and "failures" actually result from too-restricted access to various systems their trying to work on, crappy equipment their forced to use by their clients...for example one programmer I was trying to help had an ANCIENT laptop that our mutual client said had to be used for any work; he couldn't use his own (or even WiPro's) equipment but was forced to try and do some SQL dev on a D600...he needed software that our client didn't provide but was completely restricted to installing anything outside of NetIQ-pushed software packages on it. I felt for him...he even said he had an MSDN subscription and all the apps he needed but would be fired if he installed anything outside on it.

  4. Yes yes we had all these objections before signing by linuxguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We were forced to sign this contract. On gun point actually. And then they said that we should take their money or they'll break our knee caps.

    You see, we are the victims here.

    Larry

  5. Oracle has skills and knowledge? by geekmux · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "...'Cover Oregon lacked the skills, knowledge or ability to be successful as the systems integrator on an undertaking of this scope and complexity,'

    Gee, that's funny. And here I thought I was in the majority in thinking that it is in fact Oracle who lacks the skills, knowledge, or ability to fix that piece-of-shit Frankenstein they want to label a working product.

    I suppose if you thought you were buying a perpetual bug and patch service, sure. They're fucking awesome at that. I might even be so bold as to say #1 in the industry.

    1. Re:Oracle has skills and knowledge? by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "...'Cover Oregon lacked the skills, knowledge or ability to be successful as the systems integrator on an undertaking of this scope and complexity,'

      Gee, that's funny. And here I thought I was in the majority in thinking that it is in fact Oracle who lacks the skills, knowledge, or ability to fix that piece-of-shit Frankenstein they want to label a working product.

      False dichotomy, it's not one or the other.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  6. ALL the exchanges failed by Karmashock · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All of them.

    In the case of all of them failing you have to look at the common denominator because ALL of them failed.

    Newsflash... Oracle was not involved in all of the exchanges.

    The central problem was that the rollout was rushed for political reasons.

    If it were slowed down then the republicans might have had more success killing it before implementation. Even now it might well die. So the democrats rushed the rollout.

    And this is the result.

    That is not Oracle's fault. We all have experience with projects that are rushed through planning to the point where they are unworkable.

    That's all this is... nothing more or less.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    1. Re:ALL the exchanges failed by Cyberax · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, no. KyNect worked without downtime on its frontend, however its backend was not very stable - as it had to interact with the federal exchange.

  7. It's not Oracle's fault! by Vlijmen+Fileer · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's the customers' fault. EVERYBODY in the IT business already knows that Oracle invariably gives you:
    - Bizarely high price
    - Incomplete project result
    - Project delays
    - Low quality
    - Extreme vendor lock in
    E.v.e.r.y s.i.n.g.l.e p.r.o.j.e.c.t they do.
    I'm not sure whther to cry or laugh at this. Just don't go with Oracle, every sane IT professional knows that.

  8. Re:Oracle burning bridges by bobthesungeek76036 · · Score: 2

    Oracle should accept some losses and quietly make an amiable-as-possible exit. Why air dirty laundry about clients? Even if the State is partly to blame, being a loud asshole makes you less likely to get future gov't contracts.

    You have no idea the level of arrogance that exists at Oracle...

    --
    Karma: Bad
  9. Re:Crapware by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

    I'm a sysadmin of Oracle applications and they REALLY is shit!

    So is your orthograph.

    I think he was just writing in one of those Proprietary Oracle SQL variants.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  10. Project Lead is 100% responsible... by CraigCruden · · Score: 2

    It does sound as though the primary blame has to be put at the Oregon's officials since Oregon was the lead on the project. The lead is always 100% responsible for the project, after the project failed they are trying to say "ohh, not my fault"... If the project was off the rails early on, they should have seen it -- regardless of communications and adjusted (and if Oracle was not doing it's job - fired them). Obviously Oregon wants to have a scapegoat, but apparently forgot to pay them for that service.

  11. Project management by drolli · · Score: 2

    I am working as a consultant.

    My good advice to every customer is: dont buy consultant work as time and material. Buying as time and material puts the wrong incentives to everybody:

    -Your own people will feel that they still can just use them as normal workers and keep all decisions (and thus responsibility) to themself

    -The consultants dont care, since just doing what your own people tell them without thinking is what gets their monthly timesheets signed. If something goes wrong they can even sell more hours, not less

    -The consulting company does not care (and rigthly so since that was not what you asked for) and will send you inexperiences junior consultants wherever possible.

    -Coding quality has to be reviewd by your own people (or just accepted as it is)

    -Your own people are usually vastly inferior at project management in comparison to the average senior consultant - in a non T&M contract the usual situation is that you get the things done in time or you will loose money.

  12. It is worth noting ... by Rambo+Tribble · · Score: 3, Informative

    ... that the quality assurance contractor for the project, Maximus, had this to say, "Oracle's performance is clearly lacking. Their inability to adhere to industry standards and professional software and project management tenets warrants further review."

  13. The State of Oregon has failed at many IT projects by pigiron · · Score: 2

    I've worked on several fiascoes that the State of Oregon has tried to build over the last 30 years and they always end up as fiascoes. Motor vehicles, child support system, a consolidated database of Oregon state welfare recipients. They all failed for one reason. Oregon State workers are a bunch of lazy, incompetent, featherbedding incompetents.

    They take off on sick leave for days at a a time without even notifying their bosses. Are promoted based on minority or gender status instead of competence, sit at their desks all day doing nothing but go to meetings coffee breaks and lunch, and have such a strong union that they can't be fired no matter how bad they are.

    I don't bother working for them any more as every big project turns to shit because the workers don't care. They are FAR, FAR worse than federal workers who at least know how to effectively hand off the real work to competent contractors. Oregon State employees can't even manage that trick.