Cody Wilson Interview at Reason: Happiness Is a 3D Printed Gun

An anonymous reader writes "Cody Wilson details his conflict with the State Department over 3-D printable guns in this new interview with ReasonTV. In this video, he discusses how 3-D printing will render gun control laws obsolete and unenforceable; why Dark Wallet, his new crypto-currency, is much more subversive than Bitcoin; his legal defense, headed by Alan Gura (attorney in District of Columbia v. Heller and McDonald v. Chicago); and his forthcoming book about anarchy and the future."

Comments

Excuse me for one moment.

[serviscope_minor]

3D printing, gun control and bitcoin in one thread.

Please excuse me for one moment. I'll be back with popcorn shortly.

Re:Excuse me for one moment.

[Anonymous Coward]

Now just get the NSA, Al Gore, and Porn involved.

Re:Excuse me for one moment.

[Anonymous Coward]

Just need to add Wayland to the mix and we'll have a nice influx of GNU Greybeards like you!

Re:Excuse me for one moment.

[PolygamousRanchKid]

I'd like to super-size that with side orders of Tesla, Google Glasses and Global Warming . . .

"I'm driving my Tesla, which I bought with bitcoins, wearing Google Glasses, wielding a 3D printed gun, and polluting the atmosphere by using coal produced electricity . . ."

Can anyone beat that . . . ?

Re:Excuse me for one moment.

[plopez]

Someone needs to activate Godwin's Law.

Re:Excuse me for one moment.

[Anonymous Coward]

Cody helpfully brought up The War in the video.

Re:Excuse me for one moment.

[plopez]

So Cody is a Nazi?

(OK, I did it)

Re:Excuse me for one moment.

[rasmusbr]

Someone needs to activate Godwin's Law.

Do you know who else drove cars on coal-derived fuel, during the holocaust? That's right. The Nazis. Because Hitler told them to.

(True story, google "Bergius process".)

Re:Excuse me for one moment.

[stms]

You know who activated Godwin's Law? Hitler, you are just like Hitler.

Re:Excuse me for one moment.

[Anonymous Coward]

this will be more about ATF, FBI and Reno(D)

now excuse me, the popcorn machine awaits.

Re:Excuse me for one moment.

[Dragon Bait]

Now just get the NSA, Al Gore, and Porn involved.

Please, no! I do not want to see Al Gore Porn. <shudder, puke, wretch>

Re:Excuse me for one moment.

[Anonymous Coward]

Would you rather it be Howard Dean? "Not only are we going all the way in New Hampshire ... we're going all the way in South Carolina and Oklahoma and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico, and we're going all the way in California and Texas and New York. And we're going all the way in South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan. And then we're going to go all the way in Washington, D.C. to go all the way in the White House. YEEAAGH!"

Re:Excuse me for one moment.

[jafac]

How about a FED conspiracy theory, and plea for return to the gold standard?

Re:Excuse me for one moment.

[Ginger Unicorn]

When Hitler does it, it's intended as a compliment.

Re:Excuse me for one moment.

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Well how about some Raspberry Pi for dessert and we can call it good.

Re:Excuse me for one moment.

[Dabido]

Someone needs to activate Godwin's Law.

Ptttth! That's exactly the sort of thing Hitler would say!!!!!

Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[dbIII]

I wish this clown would shut up instead of trying to get 3D printing regulated just so that he can be famous.
So yes, big deal, something that is made from a material weaker than most kinds of wood can maybe fire off a shot if you are very lucky or maybe be a small gun shaped grenade without a timer (whoops!). There's plenty of other more useful things that can be done with 3D printing and there's plenty of other ways to make guns at home that will not blow up in your face.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[Anonymous Coward]

> get 3D printing regulated

This concept is even more of a joke than gun control.
"Let me check the serial on that stepper motor, gotta make sure it's pre-ban."

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[graphius]

I wish I had not just spent my last mod points. If someone is stupid enough to try and make a 3d printed gun (a opposed to machining one out of metal, as suggested below) let them blow themselves up. A gun is simple to make, Kirk made one from some bamboo, rocks and minerals...

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[im_thatoneguy]

3D printers printing weak plastic is only temporary. It's only a matter of time before we have ceramics or plastics as strong as milled steel billets.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[AmiMoJo]

You can already get 3D printers that use metal instead of plastic. Prices are coming down, quality is going up. It won't be long before more practical weapons are available by pushing ctrl-P.

Some people point out that anyone with basic metalworking tools can make a gun. Sure, but metalworking tools aren't that cheap and they require skill and knowledge to operate.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[just_a_monkey]

Now imagine what McGywer could do with that.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[Anonymous Coward]

> Sure, but metalworking tools aren't that cheap and they require skill and knowledge to operate.

You can make an AK receiver with a shovel and $200 of harbor freight tooling. Much cheaper than 3D printing, and probably easier in the grand scheme of things since you get a legit AK at the end rather than a dodgy piece of plastic. Google "shovel AK"; given decent drawings a competent high school shop class kid could make one in a few weekends.

SLS has the potential to make it easy eventually, but the SLS process needs expensive optics and raw materials. Cheap may never come.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[ColdWetDog]

While you're correct, I just want to make it clear to the folks here that Star Trek was NOT an historical documentary.

Besides, he made a cannon.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[ColdWetDog]

Look at the forums devoted to 3D printing. To print anything more complex than a spoon, you have to get a significant degree of expertise with the systems. Using a lathe and mill isn't all that hard - we have taught it to high school students for decades and the newer, computer controlled ones are even easier.

In any town large enough to have an auto mechanic, there is probably somebody familiar enough with standard metalworking tools to make a gun. And a far better one that the 3D printers are making.

Is there a future for 3D printing - sure, as an evolution to what we are doing, not a revolution.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[Animats]

I wish this clown would shut up instead of trying to get 3D printing regulated just so that he can be famous.

Agreed. 3D printing is a lousy way to make a gun. This guy is doing this to get attention.

(Google result for "gun dealers": "About 44,300,000 results.")

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[i.r.id10t]

Like the original Liberator pistol that the US dropped all over France, etc., the idea behind the new production 3d printed one is to allow you one or two shots, so you can aquire a "real" gun from someone else....

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[AmiMoJo]

To print anything more complex than a spoon, you have to get a significant degree of expertise with the systems.

For now, but high end 3D printers can already produce complex moving machines that don't even need assembly at the push of a button. As the technology improves and prices come down it won't be long until even entry level models can do that.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[Aighearach]

McGywer, that's the Russian version of MacGyver, right?

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[dbIII]

Like the original Liberator pistol that the US dropped all over France

The Liberator pistol was rubbish and it would have been an insult to drop it all over France so that never happened. Real guns were supplied instead.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[mellon]

Slashdot trifecta!

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[lgw]

This happens regularly. Across America there are regular meetings of people at machine shops, to turn the gun kits they bought online into working guns. Perfectly legal in most places (incredibly illegal to sell the finished product). And these are zip guns, these are perfectly fine AR15s.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[lgw]

You can already get 3D printers that use metal instead of plastic.

Soft plastic is all you need to make stuff out of ceramic or any cast metal, by the same process as lost-wax casting. You need to print a somewhat different blank, as you need to print the channels to fill the mold (I forget what they're called), but my fellow /.ers tell me this is common enough.

However, cast metal is a really poor choice for a gun, as is any sort of additively printed metal. For safety you need quality steel of the right kind for barrel pressures. However, that's just the barrel and key bits of the receiver, and people routinely buy kits and mill them into working guns.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[Culture20]

Yeah, but we never heard of him because his ak from the pilot episode was 3d printed and it blew up on him.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[westlake]

Like the original Liberator pistol that the US dropped all over France, etc.,

The FP-45 was a crude, single-shot pistol designed to be cheaply and quickly mass-produced. It had just 23 largely stamped and turned steel parts that were cheap and easy to manufacture. It fired a .45 caliber pistol cartridge from an unrifled barrel. Due to this limitation, it was intended for very close-in use, 1--4 yards (0--5 m). Its maximum effective range was only about 25 feet (7.6 m). At longer range, the bullet would begin to tumble and stray off course. As a result of its low quality, it was nicknamed the "Woolworth gun."

General Dwight D. Eisenhower's staff never saw the practicality in mass dropping the Liberator over occupied Europe, and authorized distribution of fewer than 25,000 of the half million FP-45 pistols shipped to Great Britain for the French resistance. Generals Joseph Stillwell and Douglas MacArthur were similarly unenthusiastic about the other half of the pistols scheduled for shipment to the Pacific. The Army then turned 450,000 Liberators over to the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), which preferred to supply Resistance fighters in both theatres with more effective weapons whenever possible.

FP-45 Liberator

The Liberator shipped with a wooden dowel to remove the empty cartridge case. Fail to hit your mark with your first shot and you were as good as dead.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[rtb61]

Far more logically. Let's ask the question, what if you could grow guns on trees, surely they would not try to regulate plants, er, yeah right. So regulating weapons, how about a little question and answers time from the South Australian Police Force http://www.police.sa.gov.au/sa.... They seem to have no problem regulating all sorts of weapons, even ones that do grow on trees.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[blindseer]

Then carry more than one. Worked for people in the days of black powder.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[Tom]

So if I'm the bad guy with the gun I just need to wait until my panicked, untrained victim with his low-precision gun has wasted its two bullets somewhere into the landscape and then put a bullet into his head?

The WW2 Liberator pistols were mostly designed to create fear. Germans at checkpoints could no longer largely assume the citizens were unarmed. It works in a war setting because you're already beyond the point where you are accepting friendly casualties as part of the plan.

In a peace setting, more guns == more gun deaths. Not just due to accidents, but also because people on either side (both criminals and law enforcement) are much more likely to shoot in uncertain situations because they have to assume the other guy is armed. In most european countries, when you get robbed you are likely to lose your wallet and highly unlikely to lose your life. In countries with lots of guns, the robbers shoot more often because when the guy makes a sudden move, it could be him drawing a gun, not just panic.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[ultranova]

So if I'm the bad guy with the gun I just need to wait until my panicked, untrained victim with his low-precision gun has wasted its two bullets somewhere into the landscape and then put a bullet into his head?

No, you just need to shoot him. It's a murder, not a duel. You're the bad guy, you get to shoot first, since you initiated the conflict.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[jafiwam]

This happens regularly. Across America there are regular meetings of people at machine shops, to turn the gun kits they bought online into working guns. Perfectly legal in most places (incredibly illegal to sell the finished product). And these are zip guns, these are perfectly fine AR15s.

Selling the finished product is only illegal if the INTENT at the TIME OF CREATION was to sell. (WIthout a manufacturing FFL license that is.)

Use it a few months, then sell it? Totally legal.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[oodaloop]

You do know someone's already printed a metal gun, right?

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[Mikkeles]

...only illegal if the INTENT at the TIME OF CREATION...

You mean, like, 6000 years ago?

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[FatLittleMonkey]

Sure, but metalworking tools aren't that cheap and they require skill and knowledge to operate.

Only if you want to make a useful gun. To make a zip-gun you only need a barrel and a firing pin.

For example, find some steel pipe with an internal diameter capable of snugly holding a shotgun shell of your choosing. Call this our barrel. Find another, larger pipe with a threaded end, which has an internal diameter to slip over the outside of the smaller pipe/barrel. This becomes our trigger (and is also a reinforcing for the "firing chamber" end of the barrel, just-in-case.) Find a steel end-cap that fits the larger pipe.

Note that these are off-the-shelf parts. Other than cutting them to your preferred length, you haven't "made" anything. Now here comes the entire modification...

Drill a hole in the end-cap. Take a metal screw, round the tip and then screw it firmly into the hole you've drilled in the end cap.

Phew! You're done. Treat yourself to another beer.

Now load a shell into the "barrel", slide the larger pipe over the back, aim the "barrel" at your intended target, then pump it once, hard, like a bike-pump. The screw is the firing pin. Weirdly, because you're slamming the larger pipe forwards as the shell fires, you barely notice the recoil. Pull the "trigger" pipe off, flick the spent shell out of the "barrel", load another, repeat until it's too hot to hold or you've run out of beer.

Now you've got the basic concept, you can easily imagine making something similar out of very thick walled plastic pipe. (Or plastic rod, say 2.5-inch diam, drilling a hole down the centre sized for the .22 bullet.) This time, thread the back of the barrel-pipe itself and fit an end-cap. Add a firing-pin (say a nail) on a spring to a hole drilled in the end-cap. Unlike our zip-shotgun, you'll need to unscrew the end-cap every time you reload, but with plastic we want a bit of extra security.

If you want to get fancy, you can set up guards and grips, and mechanical-lever triggers, and style it all to look like a pistol. But essentially this is all Cody Wilson made. A thick plastic pipe, a threaded end-cap, and a pin on a spring.

So, you ask, why don't you see these all over the place in the hands of crimnils and tairists? Because they are zip guns. One shot and then you are unarmed until you can unscrew it, eject the spent cartridge, load a new one, re-screw the back, cock aim and fire. (About ten seconds, judging by Cody's videos.) During this time, there's a fair chance someone will jump up and down on your stupid head. Also, smooth-bore, so no accuracy beyond ten feet.

Don't get me wrong, if you are in a Sth American prison and this is your only means of over-powering a guard and escaping, I recommend it highly. But if you want to be a criminal, I suggest you steal a real gun.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[dbIII]

Except it did not happen that way because the sheet metal pistols were not deployed. A more serious effort was put into training and equipping the resistance in France and other places. There's biographies of Nancy Wake and others that describe what really happened (eg. getting supplied items up to and including bazookas instead of toy guns).
I really don't know if the liberator was a serious but misguided effort by an ignorant new player or wasteful war profiteering.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[jeffmeden]

So if I'm the bad guy with the gun I just need to wait until my panicked, untrained victim with his low-precision gun has wasted its two bullets somewhere into the landscape and then put a bullet into his head?

No, you just need to shoot him. It's a murder, not a duel. You're the bad guy, you get to shoot first, since you initiated the conflict.

The "Bad guys" that any subversive gun is intended to defend against is not some random assailant on the street, it's a totalitarian regime in which the occupiers are not going to be as blunt as to simply try to murder all the locals (maybe some of them) rather it's for a guerrilla style resistance to allow bands of "minutemen" to have some chance at putting up a fight with particular tactics. With that, any gun that is not effective at least at 100+ yards (typical duck/shoot situations) is really not going to help, hence why this whole charade was (in the case of WWII) and still is a bad idea.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know someone's already printed a metal gun, right?

And somehow they did it without all the fanfare (aka trolling) like Cody Wilson? Impossible!!!

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[Anonymous Coward]

Careful you don't cut yourself on all the edge.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[Tom]

And if we're talking about 21st century oppressive regimes, I'd go so far to say that any weapon that doesn't penetrate an APC or at least kevlar armour is pretty much pointless.

Never forget that the 2nd amendment was written in a time when tanks were a crazy idea that an italien painter had drafted a few schematics of.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[ravenshrike]

The stupid is strong in this one. The last 10 years with continuously dropping murder rates and the massive gun boom in the US created by Obama shows that you don't know jack shit about the topic at hand. Not to mention that the accidental death rates from guns in the US is the lowest it's been at since they pretty much started keeping remotely accurate statistics.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[ravenshrike]

Not really, they tried to get that fanfare. Since it's much easier with that amount of money to merely CNC a score of 1911s out of solid steel and have much better guns, they were ignored.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone tell the dirka dirka crowd that AKs are useless, I don't think they got the memo.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[lgw]

Well, I sure wouldn't sell a firearm with no serial number unless I was behind seven lawyers.

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[Mike Van Pelt]

Besides, speaking as someone who made quite a bit of that particular mixture ... oh, 40 something years ago ... I can state as a fact that James Tomcat Kirk's formula could not possibly have worked. Sure, he probably had the proportions right. But getting a kaboom? That requires extensive grinding to get the mixture really thorougly incorporated together at a small scale before you get anything that's possible to light at all. Then, for any kind of projectile device, there's the korning process...

Re:Getting attention at the expense of 3D printing

[Tom]

Whatever you say, cowboy. The simple fact is that the USA has about 10k gun-related deaths per year, while almost every other industrialised country has less than 100.

That is a two orders of magnitude difference. So yeah, maybe your rates are at the lowest right now, but that's like saying it's especially warm in Antarctica today. It doesn't change basic facts, such as that warm clothes would still be a pretty decent idea.

Don't be ridiculous

[russotto]

They're already unenforcable -- against criminals, who steal them (both wholesale and retail, sometimes even from police evidence rooms) and illegally import them.

If you're an enthusiast, they're already unenforceable in the sense they won't stop you from making one; if John Browning could build a machine gun with 19th century technology, and third world armorers can build them in primitive conditions, then someone mechanically adept with the benefit of all those past designs and 21st century tooling can build a gun, even a machine gun, without purchasing any restricted or even suspicious items. Modern ammunition is hard to make but easy to legally obtain, so the only thing stopping an enthusiast is the desire not to get caught and subject to the harsh penalties.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait - what? Why would you EVER steal from retail or from the FRIGGIN POLICE, when you could go to just about any home, grab a gun, and run? Or better yet, get some teenager to steal one for you? Oh, yeah, you want to pretend that the constant presence of dedicated optimized death machines in the populace is a good thing, and potential for thefts aren't increased by increased availability.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Intrepid imaginaut]

I'm surprised we haven't already started to see reasonably large scale sten gun manufacture by criminal groups - easy to make and powerful. Especially in places like the UK where it's much more difficult to get firearms.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[iggymanz]

why do you mention "if you're an enthusiast"? If you are an enthusiast, you can legally build a gun, and moreover make on that is much safer and robust than 3D printed flimsy rubbish. If one wants to 3D sculpt plastic for frame of gun, Injection molding of a polymer into handmade mold is much faster, cheaper and cost effective. 3D printing only raises the issue of stupid people trying to make a gun that is not safe.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[AmiMoJo]

They seem to be enforced in the many countries with a fairly high degree of success. Most criminals in the UK don't come armed with guns. They could probably get one if they put in some real effort and cash, but most don't bother. Aside from anything else there is little point, since most of the non-criminal population isn't armed either. A knife works almost as well, or better still just going undetected.

Think about it for a moment. If controls were completely unenforceable in the US criminals would be able to import more powerful weapons. Grenades, C4, RPGs etc. Those things exist in the US, but are not widely stolen or imported by criminals for some reason.

The reason gun control is impossible in the US is that it's an arms race. Law abiding people won't give up their guns because criminals have them, and criminals want to carry guns because law abiding people have them. The limiting factor is the government, which tries to disarm criminals and limit the guns law abiding citizens can own.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

They're already unenforcable -- against criminals, who steal them (both wholesale and retail, sometimes even from police evidence rooms) and illegally import them.

The NRA broken record.... If you repeat this enough, it still won't be true. Gun control laws are certainly enforceable and certainly enforced. Sure, there are always criminals who don't follow the laws here, but if they get caught they generally go to jail. And if the law abiding world makes it harder for criminals to get guns, then the criminal activity surrounding getting guns will end up with more criminals in jail.

People who spout this line act like they have first hand knowledge of criminals importing guns. If so, why haven't they gone to the police? Saying that gun control laws don't keep guns away from criminals is a cop out.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[plopez]

So that's a good solution It's unenforceable, by which you mean not everyone who does it is caught though some are caught, so let's just not try to stop it. That's like saying "rape is going to happen anyway we might as well make it legal" Great logic there.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

The thousands of years of laws against murder have failed to stop all homicides.

Ergo, murder is now legal.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Nimey]

By the NRA fundamentalists' logic, we shouldn't have laws because criminals ignore laws anyway.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

>Why would you EVER steal from retail or from the FRIGGIN POLICE, when you could go to just about any home, grab a gun, and run?
Are you suggesting that this doesn't happen?

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

> A knife works almost as well, or better still just going undetected.

So me with a potential gun vs thug with a gun is worse than me almost certainly unarmed and thug with a knife how? This really only seems better for the thug.

> Grenades, C4, RPGs etc. Those things exist in the US, but are not widely stolen or imported by criminals for some reason.

Because they're generally worthless to criminals. Guns used in crime are largely cheap, small caliber pistols. The scary black semiauto rifles antigunners love to freak out about and try to ban are used in something like 1.5% of crimes involving a firearm.

> The reason gun control is impossible in the US is that it's an arms race.

That and the porous border, massive trade volume, gun-friendly culture and overall track record of no success prohibiting *anything* in the US.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[RsG]

Limited demand. They'd be selling a product that's both low quality and illegal to own. The target market for that would be criminals with money to spend, who don't already have access to equal or better guns. And it's not like you can set up shop on a street corner; secrecy is expensive.

Basically, a black market Sten Gun factory has all the drawbacks of illegal arms dealing AND startup costs to boot. I'm not surprised it isn't a thing yet. Oh, and I doubt 3D printing will make it a reality any time soon - the startup costs would be lower, but the 3D printed guns would be even worse than cheap locally manufactured metal guns.

There are places in the world where the locals make cheap metal guns en masse, but they tend to be places like Chechnya rather than the UK.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[CrimsonAvenger]

So that's a good solution It's unenforceable, by which you mean not everyone who does it is caught though some are caught, so let's just not try to stop it. That's like saying "rape is going to happen anyway we might as well make it legal"

No, it's more like saying "rape is going to happen anyway, so we might as well make penises legal".

If someone 3-D prints a gun, and takes it to the range, I have no problem (well, other than wanting to be at a different range that day).

I DO have a problem if he uses it to rob a store or kill someone. The same problem I have if he buys a gun at a gun shop and then uses it to rob a store or kill someone.

In other words, punish criminal use of the weapon, not the existence of the weapon.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

Totally agree. That's why North Korea shouldn't be stopped from having nukes - AFTER they nuke New York we should punish them, not before.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[CAIMLAS]

They're already unenforcable -- against criminals, who steal them (both wholesale and retail, sometimes even from police evidence rooms) and illegally import them.

... or from police weapon lockers.

They also make them. See the case recently in Australia of motorcycle gangs making some (very) effective subguns (automatic pistols and the like).

It's pretty trivial to make a firearm capable of being used to perpetuate crimes against people: they just have to be better than not having a firearm, so looks, and impression of effectiveness, are more important than actually being well made firearms. Someone with crude hand tools can make an AK in a day or two, and that's a fairly capable firearm. The net result of regulation and elimination of privately owned firearms is that only criminals and cops will have guns, and military (and militarized police) will be the main ones with firearms suitable for any sort of tyrannical resistance and/or hunting.

There are already efforts well underway to prohibit any firearm with a rifled bore - you know, something that was invented to the point of being effective in the 15th century, and have been in common military as well as domestic use for 200 years. Still, you can't regulate ingenuity.

This is why they're also trying to control/eliminate consumer ammunition production (by making it prohibitively expensive through the banning of things like smelting lead, making it illegal to import lead, and things like that) - at least in the US.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[ganjadude]

how is this modded insightful? All you have to do is look at detroit and chicago as examples of gun control not working. Almost all murders in those 2 cities are done with guns obtained by the murderer illegally. I was just reading something today that says if detroit was its own country, it would be number 4 on the list of murder committed by gun (i dont like breaking down how a murder is committed as the end result is the same with a gun a knife or a car)

Very rarely do you see a legal gun owner out there murdering people, but I hear stories a few times a month of a legal gun owner using their gun to defend themselves from criminals

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[khallow]

By the NRA fundamentalists' logic, we shouldn't have laws because criminals ignore laws anyway.

Keep in mind that these are laws which constrain the actions of the law abiding while doing nothing to change the behavior of those already committing crimes.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Idarubicin]

They're already unenforcable -- against criminals, who steal them (both wholesale and retail, sometimes even from police evidence rooms) and illegally import them.

I have to admit that I am always surprised by people who confuse and conflate the notion that something is possible with the notion that laws against that possible-to-do thing are thereby rendered unenforceable.

It is extraordinarily easy to acquire an automobile with a top speed exceeding 75 miles per hour. They can be found readily on our city streets, in the garages of our homes, all across America. Millions of such vehicles exchange hands, legally, every year. Shockingly, that doesn't actually render laws against speeding unenforceable--even though every driver has access to technology with which they can speed, available at the twitch of a foot.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[sploxx]

sorry mismoderated. replying to revoke moderation.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[kqs]

these are laws which constrain the actions of the law abiding

The first rule of Tautology Club is the first rule of Tautology Club.

You're right. For example, laws against polluting only stop those who are not polluting. But so what? Do you think the laws against polluting should be repealed? Do you think that when the laws were passed that polluting did not decrease?

Are you claiming that gun control laws are useless if one person ignores them? Australia passed laws in 1996 to greatly limit firearms. The number of firearms and the number of violent deaths in Australia both suffered major declines in the years since then.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

you could go to just about any home, grab a gun, and run

Do you want to get shot? Because that how you get shot.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't hard to enforce. There is a reason why benefactors to humanity like Bloomberg have donated 50 million dollars to yanking firearms out of the nutjobs' hands so our children can live in a safer environment.

All it takes is banning ammo sales and gunpowder sales. Problem over. If that can't be done, then proper enforcement of gun bans like in NYC (which is constitutional), NYC being the US's flagship city of how things should be run (lowest percentage crime for anywhere urban in the US, streets safer than even "Small Town USA", etc.) Put people in Rikers for a year, and their interest in the NRA will quickly disappear.

It just takes the will. Australia did it. Same with Venezuela.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

> benefactors to humanity like Bloomberg

top kek

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you EVER steal from retail or from the FRIGGIN POLICE, when you could go to just about any home, grab a gun, and run?

You'd steal from a retail store because:
1) You can be certain beforehand that the store will have what you're looking for.
2) You're WAY less likely to get shot by the owner.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[russotto]

I'm using "unenforceable" in the same sense that Wilson is; that anyone who cares to break the law can, and in nearly all cases won't get caught.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[blindseer]

I believe the grandparent post was referring to the manufacture of a machine gun. Any enthusiast can build a semi-auto firearm with little legal hassle, building a full-auto firearm is beyond "enthusiast".

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

Guns are already controlled, and criminals usually use illegally obtained guns.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

North Korea is the nation equivalent of a criminally insane man. Poor example. Try France or Israel next time.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Idarubicin]

I'm using "unenforceable" in the same sense that Wilson is; that anyone who cares to break the law can, and in nearly all cases won't get caught.

The same is true for speeding. But even if you want to narrow the scope to "things I can do in my own home, where I won't get caught except if something goes terribly wrong, or by happenstance" there is still a pretty big field.

Suppose I live in a high-rise apartment tower. It would be trivially easy for me to buy a couple of dozen propane cylinders from local retailers, and slip them into my hypothetical apartment. (Put each one in a suitcase or cardboard box to carry it upstairs, and spread the purchases out over a few different stores, across several weeks of summer barbecue season. Pay cash.) No one knows my apartment is now a giant bomb. Totally illegal under an assortment of fire codes and municipal bylaws. Probably runs into state and/or federal rules about the transportation and storage of dangerous goods. To be honest, I can't be bothered to look up all the different ways in which it is illegal.

Anyone could do it. No one who does it would get caught (unless they talk about it). Should it therefore be legal to store a quarter ton of compressed, flammable gas inside a residential apartment building?

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[FatLittleMonkey]

Australia passed laws in 1996 to greatly limit firearms. The number of firearms and the number of violent deaths in Australia both suffered major declines in the years since then.

Actually, the number of guns returned to pre-ban levels. Only the composition of the national armoury changed. It's that which eliminated mass shootings and reduced fire-arm deaths.

This should be reassuring for Americans. It's not "gummin tuk ur guns", it just a restriction on gun types. You can still hunt, sport-shoot, home defend, etc.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

And take a look at what happened to violent crime levels. I'll give you a hint: when folks couldn't defend themselves so readily (with guns), violent crime went up.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[Anonymous Coward]

I did not know that, but that does make me happy. I'm less worried about being targeted by a hunting rifle, and much more worried about a mental midget in a car taking pot-shots at my motorcycle with their pistol, or an upstanding citizen deciding that my kid's skittles and hoodie are a clear and present danger.

Mind you, it *should* reassure Americans but it won't since they've been convinced by the NRA that checking for violent criminal convictions == black UN helicopters full of atheist muslims raping your kitten.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[khallow]

The first rule of Tautology Club is the first rule of Tautology Club.

A truism isn't a tautology. In the US, there exists those who are law abiding, complying with regulations and common sense with respect to fire arms, whether they own them or not. They make up the vast majority of the population. And there's a fair sized group of people who commit crimes with hand guns most which are already illegally obtained.

Are you claiming that gun control laws are useless if one person ignores them? Australia passed laws in 1996 to greatly limit firearms. The number of firearms and the number of violent deaths in Australia both suffered major declines in the years since then.

Of course, I am. The US experienced a similar decline in violent deaths from firearms and for the most part, didn't tighten gun control laws.

Re:Don't be ridiculous

[FatLittleMonkey]

However, in Australia, the rate of mass shootings went from 1 every 18 months to not one in 18 years. (There was one campus shooting which almost counted.) That's a fairly sharp drop, from an expected 12 to not quite 1.

It's pretty amazing to think that merely restricting weapons types virtually eliminates the ability of these kinds of nut-jobs from being able to carry out their attacks. I certainly wasn't expecting it, it's too easy from criminals to get their hands on illegal weapon types, the black market can only expand as unsurrendered weapons leak onto the market, and yet... 100% reduction. Surprised me, I was predicting no effect.

And there's a fair sized group of people who commit crimes with hand guns most which are already illegally obtained.

Illegally obtained... from where? How many US gun crimes are committed with home-made or illegally-imported weapons? Versus how many are committed with otherwise perfectly legal guns stolen off of legal gun owners, or illegally resold second-hand, or illegally transported across state-lines. Calling them "illegal" is pretty disingenuous.

Unregulatable!

[Jane Q. Public]

In practice, 3D printing is unregulatable.

Practically unenforceable laws are worse than no law at all, because people get prosecuted at the whim of politicians.

Re:Unregulatable!

[wisnoskij]

How is it unregulated? Making a gun is actually quite easy, therefore guns are somewhat unregulatable.

As far as I am aware you pretty much have no chance of making a working 3D printer/3D toner in your garage. So if you are forced to buy them from one of the 12 factories in the world who make them then they are easily regrettable.

Re:Unregulatable!

[The123king]

No it's not. Just require people who own a 3d printer to have a license for it. If you don't have a license, you go to jail. Simple.

Re:Unregulatable!

[blindseer]

Tell me how many people are driving in the USA without a license? We all know the number is not zero. Nobody knows what the true number is, and estimates vary widely. Why is this? Because driver licensing requirements are effectively unenforceable.

There are millions of cars and millions of drivers. To enforce a requirement to have a license to drive would mean putting up checkpoints all over. To avoid falsified papers getting through all licenses would have to be checked against a database. Even then you'd have duplicated licenses, bribed officials, and all manner of corruption. You'd also have a police state.

That is what would happen if you try to license 3D printers. Homes and businesses would have to be searched at random. Police would have to be everywhere to keep 3D printers from being moved or manufactured. Even then people would find ways to avoid the police, bribe the police, or otherwise evade the law.

Another example, opiates. If you don't have a license to possess opiates (such as a prescription) then you go to jail, right? Wrong. The heroin trade is a booming business in the USA.

Re:Unregulatable!

[Jane Q. Public]

No it's not. Just require people who own a 3d printer to have a license for it. If you don't have a license, you go to jail. Simple.

In the U.S. this is not a viable model. SCOTUS has ruled, more than once, that a practice may not be outlawed simply because it can be abused, as long as it also has legitimate uses. Anything else is a form of "prior restraint".

People may argue: yes, but automobiles are licensed. While that is true, if you look at similar laws you will find that automobiles are very much the exception, and in fact State ability to "license" their use is still an open Constitutional question. Not only are other machines not licensed as vehicles are, it is generally accepted that they are not legally licensable the way vehicles are.

It might be illegal for me to make and sell a rifle with my milling machine. That does not mean that my milling machine is illegal. (And, in fact, making a rifle for my own use is not illegal. Selling it across state lines is. In some states I could probably even legally sell it, as long as it remained within the state.)

Re:Unregulatable!

[Anonymous Coward]

Because putting people in jail for possessing things is such a successful idea.

Yawn

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep your shitty gun printers, people in the *real* world aren't interested.

Re:Yawn

[Anonymous Coward]

Who the fuck mods this garbage up?

Give him an award

[BasilBrush]

I hope the guy qualifies for an award some time soon. A Darwin award.

Not the right tool for the job

[Anonymous Coward]

A vastly more structurally sound weapon can be made on a low-end Bridgeport mill or similar. SLS, FDM and the like can't hold a candle to even a pipe with a cap on one end with a hold for a nail.

The guy's a nut, and using "3D printing means gun for everyone huehuehue" to seek attention. Until you can get something like Direct MEtal Deposition down to commodity pricing at high enough resolutions to avoid the need for finishing, the limiter on manufacturing of firearms will be a skilled machinist, not the equipment they;re using.

Re:Not the right tool for the job

[plopez]

A skilled machinist? I haven't kept up with gun manufacturing per se, but I thought due to high end robot milling machines the skill machinist had pretty much gone the way of the skilled buggy whip maker Most guns have the look and feel of stamped metal, plastic extruded, robot milled crap. Otherwise they wouldn't be so cheap.

Re:Not the right tool for the job

[cold fjord]

CNC machines do a lot of it these days, but if you are looking for customization, repair of something old, rare, or otherwise out of production, a skilled machinist / gunsmith could very easily be involved.

Re:Not the right tool for the job

[drinkypoo]

The CNC milled guns tend to have parts that go in without smithing. I'll take that over pedigree.

3D Printing - Anachy ?

[pjrc]

I find it amusing that Anarchy will supposedly spring forth from a technology that depends on highly refined, multi-disciplinary engineering and built from precision materials that are only manufactured and sold at affordable pricing in the context of a highly ordered society.

Re:3D Printing - Anachy ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I find it amusing that Anarchy will supposedly spring forth from a technology that depends on highly refined, multi-disciplinary engineering and built from precision materials that are only manufactured and sold at affordable pricing in the context of a highly ordered society.

There can be order without a ruler. P2P technologies is a human made prof of that. I am sure there are many others and many more example in nature. Fuck off.

Re:3D Printing - Anachy ?

[Arker]

"I find it amusing that Anarchy will supposedly spring forth from a technology that depends on highly refined, multi-disciplinary engineering and built from precision materials that are only manufactured and sold at affordable pricing in the context of a highly ordered society."

Errr, why?

Re:3D Printing - Anachy ?

[cold fjord]

I find it amusing that Anarchy will supposedly spring forth from a technology that depends on highly refined, multi-disciplinary engineering and built from precision materials that are only manufactured and sold at affordable pricing in the context of a highly ordered society.

Nobody said that 3D printing was going to be a sustainable technology.

Re:3D Printing - Anachy ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, the Annarcy=chaos fallacy, still alive and kicking I see...

Re:3D Printing - Anachy ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it's like shitting on the hand that feeds you and then eat it too..

Re:3D Printing - Anachy ?

[feedayeen]

I find it amusing that Anarchy will supposedly spring forth from a technology that depends on highly refined, multi-disciplinary engineering and built from precision materials that are only manufactured and sold at affordable pricing in the context of a highly ordered society.

There can be order without a ruler. P2P technologies is a human made prof of that. I am sure there are many others and many more example in nature. Fuck off.

The ruler within technology is the standards committee. These groups designed every layer required for P2P software from the physical connections inside and between computers to the software protocols that permit packet transfer to the P2P protocol itself. They're not legally binding regulations, but realistically driving the wrong way on a freeway isn't going to result in a ticket either. Selling software or hardware which can't interact with existing products would be suicide too.

Re:3D Printing - Anachy ?

[Arker]

Except it is nothing like that, at all, at all.

Chaos is the mother, not the daughter, of Order.

Dark-Wallet is not a currency.

[Anonymous Coward]

From the summery: "Dark Wallet, his new crypto-currency, is much more subversive than Bitcoin"

Dark wallet is a wallet application that uses bitcoin. There are tons of new crypto-currencies, but dark wallet is not one of them. Thank you anonymous reader: we all really needed this story about something you don't at all understand. Either: you didn't watch the interview or its total crap and won't inform you in a useful way, so why post it here? (And the printing guns part of it is irrelevant: 50 years ago you could make guns easily out of plumbing supplies: being able to make guns is not news)

I think we all already know Cody Wilson anyway; he is to back-markets and guns what Stallman is to free software: A fantastic reference point for his extreme views. I'm glad both of them are around to help our discussions of the issues, but if we are gonna discuss this stuff, can we get the facts somewhat close to right?

Don't forget the sten

[NotSoHeavyD3]

Just to add to your point that even under limited conditions you can build a gun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

Re:Don't forget the sten

[Nidi62]

Just to add to your point that even under limited conditions you can build a gun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

Or even Russian assault shovels

Matrix quote

[gmuslera]

Neo: What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?

Morpheus: No, Neo. I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready, you won't have to.

The freedom that could gives 3d printers, virtual currency, and internet is not about printing bullets or guns, but about not needing them. Is a extreme proof of concept to be able to do even that, the key part is being able to do anything.

"Reason."

[Anonymous Coward]

"Solution." "Truth." "Enlightenment."

Salesmanship.

Ignore this religious nut. You don't need a sky fairy to be a dogmatic moron.

Consider it done...

[Anonymous Coward]

You know who else used the Nazis to futher their agenda? Hitler.

You're welcome!

gun control laws obsolete

[Osgeld]

yea cause all the stupid people will have exploded plastic gun sticking out of their face when they die, we wont need them anymore

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, this is Slashdot, they've been reporting on this stuff for years. It's religiously libertarian.

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[ColdWetDog]

Cody is a gun nut, a pothead, and an anarchist. He is pro-crime, anti-police, anti-government. He wants everyone armed with every manner of illegal weaponry possible.

What's not to like?

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Anonymous Coward]

Timothy is:
a) libertardian
b) Dice employee

Re:Idiot

[ColdWetDog]

They were. There were definite concerns about letting computing resources out to the hoi polloi.

Remember when encryption was considered 'military armaments?

Oh what the fuck

[rebelwarlock]

I know this sort of shit appeals heavily to basement dwellers, who love hearing "smash the system" because they seem convinced that "the system" is holding them down despite their own lack of marketable skills, but screaming "anarchy" is only cute when Gaige from Borderlands 2 does it. When real life adults do it, they sound like morons or lunatics. But the one thing these people don't understand is that the absolute worst thing that can happen for them is that someone important takes them seriously.

Cody Wilson Is A Slobbering Shit-Filled Moron -

[Anonymous Coward]

The tools and materials necessary to produce a reusable, higher quality firearm are easily obtained. Many of those tools can even be operated by hand without electric power. Browning's work is just one example - anyone with a metal shop already has most if not all of the tools (and likely the experience as well) needed to build a halfway decent gun. Reusable improvised firearms were well within the reach of amateur gunsmiths decades ago, and one built by a halfway experienced machinist using metal parts will be much more useful and effective than Wilson's maybe-one-shot turd.

Wanna know what's even harder to regulate than 3-D printers? Try practically every other tool, ever.

3-D printing is only useful for producing arms for insurgents too lazy and comfortable to actually go out and use them. Good thing, too, since these plastic pea shooters are more dangerous to their users than their targets.

Re:Cody Wilson Is A Slobbering Shit-Filled Moron -

[Anonymous Coward]

Your position is built on the assumption that 3D printing can never improve beyond its current capabilities.

That's why Cody Wilson is smarter than you.

Re:Cody Wilson Is A Slobbering Shit-Filled Moron -

[Anonymous Coward]

Cody Wilson is even dumber than we think if he really believes that a machine laden with electronics is somehow harder to restrict than things like metal files or the components of a lathe. Processes like lost wax casting don't even require a 3-D printer at all even if they can be simplified somewhat by it. He's talking about clandestine weapons manufacture in the context of a society in which the ownership of firearms is criminalized, and acting like 3-D printing somehow brings new capabilities to gunsmiths when it really doesn't. His position is that this is a groundbreaking thing and that nobody could ever dream of secretly making an affordable working firearm at home before now, and that's dead wrong. That it's the wrong tool for the job at present is just the icing on the cake.

If there's a supply chain that would be trivially easy to clamp down on it's the electronics used to control these things. Ammunition production is another bear of a problem.

If you want to make guns at home that will get the job done right, don't wait for some silly replicator machine to appear that will do it for you, and don't count on that technology or the required infrastructure to operate and maintain it being available in the event of an armed rebellion.

Re:Cody Wilson Is A Slobbering Shit-Filled Moron -

[Anonymous Coward]

He's ... acting like 3-D printing somehow brings new capabilities to gunsmiths

No, he's acting like 3D printing brings rudimentary gun "smithing" to the point and click crowd (once 3D printers become common enough). I remember when a paper printer was something special that only one family in a neighborhood might have. Granted, the limitations of 3D printers versus their costs makes them less useful than paper printers used to be. Strangely, a lot of families are printerless again because of the bait and switch tactics of inkjet printer companies; the cost/benefit balance was tipped.

Re:Idiot

[Immerman]

>Remember when encryption was considered 'military armaments?

Did they finally abandon that? Last I heard we'd simply had a work-around by distributing all the high-end encryption software from jurisdictions that didn't try to restrict the export of military grade encryption.

Yeah, that'll bring Utopia

[rbrander]

Pretty funny to have this article right after the one about two large new corporations as "unelected superpowers". All the guns you can print won't materialize a factory for you to work in if unelected superpowers in our society decide to outsource your job. Waving a gun around your ISP offices won't make the oligopoly they're part of cut your Internet rates.

Threatening violence in the 30's didn't get poor people anything but far more violence used against them. (Turns out the Powers That Be have guns too, and way more of them.) Peaceful organizing of protests, labour unions, and voting blocs, on the other hand, shifted power (and money) from the old-millionaires-club of the 19th century to the new unfamiliar concept of the middle class. Granted, successful war against it has been waged for over 30 years, but it sure as hell won't be turned around because somebody starts handing out cheap guns.

Naive anarchists

[Livius]

Why do anarchists always assume that no-one will have a bigger gun? Organized crime is what anarchy looks like in the real world.

Re:Naive anarchists

[EmagGeek]

Do you even realize the irony of equating Anarchy with **ORGANIZED** crime?

Re:Naive anarchists

[Livius]

Without government, how would you stop them from organizing?

Re:Naive anarchists

[Anonymous Coward]

Government is merely the apex predator of an ecosystem of organized crime, which is really just an extension of power based tribalism of groups of people vs groups of people. A benign government regulates the behavior of organized crime, a malignant government is unchallenged organized crime, semi-legitimized by having the access to the greatest resources for use of force against other entities. Most real governments fall somewhere between the two extremes with varying degrees of internal corruption marring benign behavior, but that is still what they are.

Re:Naive anarchists

[Anonymous Coward]

there's more normal people then violent criminals, what you would need is a populaton that is willing to swarm every criminal/group they see doing violence

how you get the entire population to take that risk is a different question, but arming everybody so they're on even footing with the armed criminals is probably a good start

Don't. Be ridiculous.

[VortexCortex]

I agree, but you don't even need a machine shop, lathe, etc. to build a gun. You can build a pretty sturdy zip gun with some pipe and fittings from your local hardware store. They even sell 22 caliber rounds for driving in nails so you can build the whole gun, projectiles and all, right there in the store. Get some real bullets at Walmart later. Look, we're all "nerds" here, home made guns should be part of any contingency scenario for your zombie plan; Help a geek out.

Makeshift "zip" guns are even studier than a 3D printed gun is right now. Eventually 3D printed materials will be even better than subtraction technologies, since we can influence fine structural detail. But right now, 3D printed guns are WAY down the list on essential zombie preparedness kit items (it's like a hurricane or earthquake kit, but with more shotguns).

If you're in the US, today is a great day for a zombie attack. There are folks gathering away from their homes in large quantities, and running around collecting and eating food off the ground. Even if you don't get visited by the Easter Zombunny, today is a great opportunity to teach kids foraging skills. Remember, in the event of an outbreak: Always hunt responsibly, steer clear of tasty traffic bottlenecks, and she is not your mother-in-law anymore.

He's just an idiot

[Sycraft-fu]

There are all kinds of people, you can see them here on Slashdot, that know fuck-all about materials science and think 3D printers are magic. They think they are universal constructors, replicators, or whatever other sci-fi tech than can make anything and everything, just in a primitive form. So they think they can advance from playing with plastic to making metal parts that are as strong as forged metals and electronics and so on.

This is, of course, absurd. Anyone with basic MSE knowledge knows that there's a big difference between what you can potentially extrude using a process like a 3D printer does and how you have to make other various materials. It isn't as simple as just printing metal (which I've no doubt we'll see soon), not all metal processes are created equal.

So he doesn't know what he's talking about with regards to materials, which is why he thinks he's such a visionary, and he also knows fuck-all about anarchy. He's one of those loons that thinks an anarchy with no government control would be some kind of utopia instead of what it actually is, a place like Somalia run by warlords.

It all makes me laugh anyhow since he's in the US and could just go buy better parts over the counter anyhow. Oh wow, you can 3D print a lower receiver for an AR-15 that breaks after a little bit. Neat. Or you could just go and buy an AR-15 lower milled from an aluminium billet that will last several lifetimes.

Re:He's just an idiot

[rasmusbr]

He's one of those loons that thinks an anarchy with no government control would be some kind of utopia instead of what it actually is, a place like Somalia run by warlords.

The warlords and their bands of warriors can and should be thought of as small, primitive and extremely violent governments.

The idea of no government is essentially impossible. Imagine two villages close to one another: one that has no government and one that has a government. Before too long the village without government will have a government, either its own government that it has created in order to command a police/militia to defend itself against the government of the other village, or the government of the other village after being conquered by that village's militia. Assuming a population density high enough that all (or most) human settlements can be reached by people from other settlements it follows that everyone (or most everyone) will eventually be under government.

Re:He's just an idiot

[hsthompson69]

Mod parent up. The idea that Somalia has no government simply because the government isn't your typical democratic republic, is silly.

Not only are warlords a form of government, even our much more enlightened republic includes some of the taint of arbitrary violence against the people.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap

Re:He's just an idiot

[Tokolosh]

Trurl and Klapaucius beg to differ...

Re:He's just an idiot

[kqs]

Somalia isn't actually used as an example of a place with no government. Somalia is used as an example of what would actually happen if you get rid of a central government the way that many libertarians want. Somalia is used by many (including me) to mock those idiots who actually want "anarchy". Sure, in the US we'd likely end up with some form of corporate oligarchy disaster rather than a Somalia-type disaster if the Ayn Rand worshipers ever get what they want (and if the Rand-worshiping politicians ever did what they claim to want rather than what they actually do).

But yes, Cody is an idiot.

Re:He's just an idiot

[bames53]

Ben Powell, "Somalia After State Collapse: Chaos or Improvement"

Re:He's just an idiot

[Catiline]

So they think they can advance from playing with plastic to making metal parts that are as strong as forged metals and electronics and so on.

I'm pretty sure you're not working in the 3D printing field, because those who are, beg to differ.on what's currently possible.

Re:He's just an idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

If only some of that violence could be directed against the Cato Institute and the psychopathic oligarchics it sock-puppets for...

Re:He's just an idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

You can thank the shit for brains press/media and the remaining brain dead citizens, for his uprising. This is how the media/press makes their money, take someone who is not that bright, but because he claims to have re-invent something that's been around for a couple hundred years he is worthy of attention.

I do like his Punk Rock attitude. And I would disagree to an certain degree with not being able to print parts from metals, there are advances in metal alloys and other metal based materials that can be in a powder from and heat treated that can match steel. Is it anywhere close to being something for mass production? NO. And I believe the metals are patented, and of course their also expensive, so is the process to treat them.

I'm just saying, it's not impossible, and its some extent metal parts have already been printed out, tho its more of an experiment then it is useful, for something that needs to with stand several explosions.

Re:He's just an idiot

[hsthompson69]

So the assertion is that local governments inevitably degrade into rival warlord factions without the firm and beneficent hand of a strong central government?

And do you truly believe that a strong central government isn't of more benefit to a corporate oligarchy which can extract favorable subsidies from other citizens who don't have the same lobbying power as they do, funding inefficient energy and other crony capitalists?

Re:He's just an idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

The Somalia assertion is that if you remove the central government, either local governments step up or something else (violent warlords) step up to fill the vacuum. A theory that the citizens will form a stable and fair decentralized governance system worked well in Heinlein's books but rather poorly in all of history.

Any government is susceptible to corruption, whether corporate oligarchy or other. My experience in the US is that local governments are the worst (but don't have enough power to cause too much damage); states are still bad (how many are dominated by just a few rich families?); and the central government is very corrupted but has far more people trying to uncorrupt it (or change the corruption to their favor) which mitigates some of the damage.

Plus, local governments make purely local decisions (toxic waste dumped in a river is fine at the point the river leaves the county); a central government has to consider the whole picture (limit all pollution to certain levels). I'm not saying it always works; it doesn't. But it works a lot better than the county/corporation upriver from me passing "pollution laws"!

Re:He's just an idiot

[hsthompson69]

So the assertion is that no matter what one attempts, there is no way to limit government power (i.e., given more freedoms to the people, one will have a "vacuum" that will be filled by another government removing those freedoms).

I wonder if there is any rationale for what freedoms are inevitably taken away by government, and if there are indeed *any* freedoms that can survive this continual power grab given the "vacuum".

Wonder

[WillyWanker]

And then people wonder why the NSA is tracking everyone and the feds are developing drones. It's for asshats like this douchebag. Keep bragging asshole.

What does the size of the gun have to do with it?

[daninaustin]

You have been watching too much TV.

Re:Idiot

[Anonymous Coward]

and tabulating jews census for executions, do not forget about this important feature

everything that doesn't work

[Anonymous Coward]

... freedom of speech, thinking independently, and not kowtowing to the establishment

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Anonymous Coward]

Being anti-gun control and pro-caninbus is now "pro-crime"? Obama, is that you?

This will be a litmus test

[paiute]

When printable guns become more feasible, it will be revealing what the NRA has to say about it. One one hand, you would think they would support this in the name of the Second Amendment and so on. I predict that the NRA will not be able to spit out the teat of gun manufacturers corporate money and will find some convoluted way to oppose private citizens making their own arms.

Re:This will be a litmus test

[andydread]

When printable guns become more feasible, it will be revealing what the NRA has to say about it. One one hand, you would think they would support this in the name of the Second Amendment and so on. I predict that the NRA will not be able to spit out the teat of gun manufacturers corporate money and will find some convoluted way to oppose private citizens making their own arms.

The problem with your theory is that there are more members of the NRA that are private citizens than those that are gun manufacturers. When you buy into the noise that the NRA are all about gun manufacturers you forget the millions of people that are gun owners many of which are members that contribute more money to the NRA than all manufacturers combined. The pundits on the left would have you brainwashed into thinking the NRA is all a front for gun manufacturers. Take a look at what happened in purple Colorado. Even liberal gun owners that previously supported the 2 democrats that were recalled over onerous anti-gun legislation voted them out on recall. So no, the NRA cannot tell millions of its own members that they should not have the right to exercise their first ammendment right in their home.

Re:This will be a litmus test

[Anonymous Coward]

The NRA does not support the Second Amendment. The NRA supports threatening the Second Amendment to generate revenue from unsuspecting dupes who give them money to try less hard to take away gun rights.

They don't call the NRA "negotiating rights away" for nothing. A prime example of their shenanigans was sending lobbyists to Pennsylvania in the wee hours before the vote on HB40 (SYG Bill) to KILL it because they didn't want Gov. Ed Rendell to get credit for signing it into Law - which he said he would if it came to his desk.

The NRA also lobbied to have provisions removed from HB40 that would have strengthened gun rights in PA by removing the "character and reputation" clause that allows Sheriffs to arbitrary and capriciously deny LTCF applications; making it a criminal offense to improperly deny or willfully delay an LTCF application (as Philadelphia routinely does), and so on. The NRA gutted the bill that was ultimately passed, when a much better bill could have been passed.

Fuck the NRA.

Re:This will be a litmus test

[amosh]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wait, you think that the NRA is a democratic institution which listens to the voice of "the little people"? Let me guess - you joined the NRA about the time I did (early 80s) and you have paid absolutely no attention to anything it's done in the last 20 years. Here's a hint - The NRA isn't the organization it was 30 years ago, or even 20 years ago. It doesn't give a crap about our gun rights. It's a bunch of Washington fatcats, and they'll tell you whatever you want to hear so that they can keep getting your money, and go on being the most powerful lobbyists in the country.

Brother, I love you. Shine on, you crazy diamond. Also, keep on talking about "the pundits on the left". Wayne LaPierre loves folk like you.

Huh - that's really interesting... I didn't realize that the organization I joined as a kid was already rotting by the time I joined it. I had thought that all started in the early 90s, when they made LaPierre (their chief lobbyist) the head of the organization, but it actually was the culmination of a power struggle within the organization that started in the late 70s. Oh well - I learned to shoot and how to safely use a rifle. Back then those things were still important to them.

But still - keep sending them those nickels and votes. You may want to go to one of the other fine organizations that promotes responsible gun ownership to teach your kids, though.

Re:This will be a litmus test

[kqs]

The problem with your theory is that there are more members of the NRA that are private citizens than those that are gun manufacturers.

So your theory is that unlike every other religious organization, the NRA does what its members want rather than the members doing what the NRA wants. Nice theory. Every religious zealot believes that their religion is different; every non-zealot sees that they are largely identical.

Though the gun manufacturers are part of it, a much larger part is that the NRA only exists as long as they can whip people up into a frenzy to donate money. So even though gun control laws have been completely gutted in the USA, the NRA has to keep on whipping up the masses or else the organization will fade away. See also: Greenpeace.

Re:This will be a litmus test

[misexistentialist]

Major donors will still shape policy on an issue as long as it doesn't antagonize the general membership too much. The "corporate gun lobby" itself is influenced by government connections more than the big government supporters can admit, since after all government is every big gun manufacturer's best customer.

Re:This will be a litmus test

[andydread]

Dont need the NRA to whip people in a frenzy. People looking to ban certain types of guns and magazines are the ones that whip people up in a frenzy. Those same people refer to Japan and the UK as a shining example, places where guns are outrigt banned. So when you refer to places that ban guns as your example you are basically saying without admitting that we should outright ban guns. These are the type of statments that whip people up i a frenzy.

Re:This will be a litmus test

[kqs]

Such religious ferver, attacking something I did not say and do not believe, while ignoring what I did say. You truly believe the Holy Gospel of the NRA, that all those who do not worship the NRA wish to destroy every last gun.

Again: the NRA is a religion and does not represent the desires of the majority of its adherents. It perpetuates itself by convincing gullible people that if they do not support the NRA then evil forces will throw them into Hell (a gunless society). You believe this in the absence of all evidence and against all evidence (blind faith).

Re:This will be a litmus test

[Srin Tuar]

>Again: the NRA is a religion and does not represent the desires of the majority of its adherents.

I agree - they dont really represent our interests very well. They are far too moderate and willing to compromise.
We need to eradiacate all gun laws of any kind form the books, and restore the 2A to its original intention, and the NRA
just isnt pushing hard enough. This is why we have additional groups such as GOA and the VCDL, because the NRA
is too goddamn liberal.

Re:This will be a litmus test

[Anonymous Coward]

There are two wings to the NRA: the PAC and the outreach. The outreach wing does a phenomenal job of producing materials and training on gun safety. The PAC simply whips up the base into a frenzy with lots of polemic and apocalyptic rhetoric so that they do the bidding of the GOP. The PAC has give millions of NRA member to congressmen who are already pro-gun to continue lobbying in the name of gun manufacturers (and probably helps them afford pools and second and third homes). The NRA PAC is just a money laundering machine for the GOP and they know it.

I would like to see the outreach wing split off from the PAC because it is so incredibly important, and the PAC, well, the PAC can go to straight to hell as far as I'm concerned. LaPierre & co. are pure evil.

Re:This will be a litmus test

[heefeneet]

Dont need the NRA to whip people in a frenzy. People looking to ban certain types of guns and magazines are the ones that whip people up in a frenzy. Those same people refer to Japan and the UK as a shining example, places where guns are outrigt banned. So when you refer to places that ban guns as your example you are basically saying without admitting that we should outright ban guns. These are the type of statments that whip people up i a frenzy.

Neither the UK or Japan have an outright ban on guns.

Re:This will be a litmus test

[Anonymous Coward]

What the hell does religion have to do with it?

Oh fuck the what?

[VortexCortex]

That's one hell of a strawman you've got there. I'm not an anarchist myself, but I'm not sure you've ever actually met many anarchists before if that's what you think of them. Sounds like you've conflated anarchy with chaos -- that's just silly. There are many native peoples that live quite happily in anarchy. Self defense is an important aspect of anarchy. Note: The USA supreme court has ruled that it is not the duty of the police to protect anyone. They can't help you or your loved ones until they have already been victimized. The founding fathers of the USA also believed in a well armed militia. It is your duty to protect yourself, your loved ones, and your property -- Just like it is under anarchy... So, really, making weaponry more available is a good thing. Accidental shootings are rare, far more kids die in bathtubs or crossing the road than from accidental shootings, to say nothing of riding in cars themselves. Folks are OK with people building custom bathrooms and cars... right? Criminals don't care about gun control laws anyway.

I use a custom 3D printing rig for my robotics projects, and this gun project is AMAZING. Who doesn't want sturdier robots? Now, here's something interesting: How many technological advances can you think of that were not quickly militarized? Electricity? Nope. Uhm, radio? Nope. Cars? No -- hell, even horses were militarized. Computers? Nope, code makers and breakers. Telescopes? Immediately found their way to the battle field. Even our beloved RC cars, model airplanes and robots are becoming military drones. Did you know the US government reserves the right to option any patent for their exclusive secret (military) use? That's why patent applications are still secret even though first to file exists.

Making guns is human nature. We've been crafting weapons with unlikely materials for millions of years. Break this rock, and tie it to that stick and you can make a spear! However, this 3D printed gun is more of a proof of concept, and it's important because guns involve coping with extreme heat and pressure. It's sort of the same way that other than for boring entertainment or a very expensive hobby race cars are mostly pointless, except that many expensive impractical innovations from race cars do eventually make it into street cars for better safety, efficiency, speed, etc. I can hardly think of a better Olympics of 3D printing than gun making.

Also, "bits of plastic"... I can 3D print with metals using a simple welding rig. The resolution is shit, and requires lots of polishing afterwards, but the results are OK considering it's make-shift adaptation to a reprap, and they will only get better. If we can improve the durability of 3D printing, then you might order things at your computer and pick them up from the local hardware store in the "printware" section. Perhaps they'd have some thing-of-the week demo units of things to try out, printed while you wait, or delivered with your next pizza. Then we could drastically reduce our shipping infrastructure by producing products right in the stores, only shipping the raw materials to feed the printers. Other things like cars which you'd want certified MFGs to assemble could even be customized on demand -- Select a bigger cargo area, or narrower for tight spaces, get your logo crafted into the design.

Hell, we could even work our way up to custom designed 3D printed space craft, you'd have to bake the ceramic shields though. I've even made my own super capacitors by layering the ceramic clay and aluminum foil and baking it in the kiln (vertically, with the edges folded closed, only the lower 1/3rd retained its metal and became a huge capacitor. My welding rods deposit too thickly, but better metal and ceramic 3D printing could yield things with built in instant-charge inductive cells too one day. It's a ways off, esp. with entrenched market forces, but that's what refining 3D printing material science by making guns ca

Re:Oh fuck the what?

[Anonymous Coward]

" Sounds like you've conflated anarchy with chaos -- that's just silly. "

No, it's not.
Chaos is simply anarchy applied to a large population.
Note that no evidence exists that anarchy stably scales to anything larger than a village and some of those already have power struggles.

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[ganjadude]

sarcastic??? troll??? funny?? I applaud you as I cant tell if you are a complete retard or a genius troll

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[spire3661]

As long as society keeps its veneer, its ok to trample anyone, amirite?

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Anonymous Coward]

The movie script will write itself! No, seriously, won't the police just harass him for his remaining lifetime?

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Tokolosh]

Sad that Tories are still among us.

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Anonymous Coward]

U serius? Obana's Easter basket was lined with "grass". It's 4/20 all day today, man!

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but 3D printing dude. It's like the future or something.

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't expect a worthless fucking pothead like yourself to understand anything, on 4/20 of all days.

encourage people like this

[bloodhawk]

People dumb enough to make a gun from 3D printed plastic should be encouraged not told they are idiots. The Gene pool is already polluted enough, let these morons make their toy gun grenades so that the rest of the human race can move forward without these anchors.

3-d printed guns, etc

[Anonymous Coward]

Hah..wait till there are true star trek style replicators (which used the same tech as the transporters) that can replicate anything living or inanimate down to the quantum level.

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Anonymous Coward]

Libertarians are just worthless potheads. They can't affect any real change. Stop acting like they are a solution to the problem.

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Anonymous Coward]

As a fellow 16 year old fat white virgin male loser nerd, I completely agree with you're brilliant assessment.

Anarchists are morons, that's why

[Sycraft-fu]

Or even worse "crypto-anarchists" which is what this guy calls himself (no I don't know what it is supposed to mean). They don't really think through what Anarchy would mean, what it would entail, nor do they look at history and realize that Anarchy quickly becomes a chase where the strongest rule. No, they just think it'll be magic and pixie dust without a government. Everyone will be free to do what they want and the world will be an amazing place.

They don't see government as creating order, they think that it just happens magically and government just gets in the way.

Seriously, if you ever talk to someone that thinks they are an Anarchist you'll discover that either they:

1) Don't understand what Anarchy is, and actually want something else.

2) Have very poor knowledge of history, sociology, human interactions, law, and well, pretty much everything. They like the idea of Anarchy because to them it means they can do whatever they want and they really haven't considered the ramifications much further.

You don't find any that have a well reasoned and carefully thought out position on it, because it is the kind of thing that you quickly figure out doesn't work.

Pry the guy away.

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess you'd prefer Lindsey Graham porn? At least you won't have to hire any women.

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Anonymous Coward]

Holy fuck, your a goddamn psychopath.
 

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Anonymous Coward]

I much prefer what we have now to "the guy with the biggest dick^H^H^H^Hguns tramples everybody else" society model, thank you very much.

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Anonymous Coward]

History has shown us that all civilizations rise and fall. Better watch out for that backswing...it's a doozie!

Population density and the need for government

[Anonymous Coward]

As your assumption correctly hints to, in order to have no government population density has to be low enough in order for competition for the commons to be quasi non-existent. Which means a population density which is less or equal then pre-agricultural times, or about 1 person/km2. Given the amount of arable land, forests, sea etc. available, best guess would be between 50 millions and 500 millions world inhabitants which could live in peace without governments (and happily, and in harmony with nature, and with less sickness..). More than that and you'll end up where are are today. It should therefore be one of humanity's primary goal to maintain population below such a threshold at all times, though education on this very subject.

Re:Population density and the need for government

[Anonymous Coward]

And to help ensure that he ducation happens, there should be a logical meetings place controlled by a central authority. Since travel is difficult, everyone should live close together to make the education easier. Since everyone lives close together, there should be a police force controlled by the central authority...

Re:Population density and the need for government

[rasmusbr]

And to help ensure that he ducation happens, there should be a logical meetings place controlled by a central authority. Since travel is difficult, everyone should live close together to make the education easier. Since everyone lives close together, there should be a police force controlled by the central authority...

Yes, there would be city states with governments, but a lot of people would have countryside houses that they could travel to by sea or by air. The city state governments could easily come and tax your countryside home if they wanted to, but they would probably not consider it worth the effort since most economic activity would take place in and around the cities. (They certainly wouldn't care if some guy wants to make a clunky plastic gun that fires one shot.)

If someone managed to build a large factory out in the middle of nowhere and get it to be profitable then I'm sure that person could strike a favorable deal directly with one or several of the faraway city states.

Anyway, this is all fantasies on a planet that is on a trajectory towards ten billion people.

Also.....

[Anonymous Coward]

How many other useful 3D printing applications would get cut off at the knees because some asshat politcian freaks out over the prospect of 3d printed guns, 1 one application of the technology. Politicians are what they always have been:

POLY = More than one.
TICK.......

what is the legal basis for the harassment?

[kimvette]

> A self-declared crypto-anarchist, the 26-year-old Wilson is fighting the situation in court—and relishing every minute of his battle with the government.

Why is he in court? What law was broken? Was he manufacturing arms and distributing them without a license? If not, I fail to see any basis to charge him with any crime or for the government to harass him in any way. Otherwise the Feds need to harass everybody distributing this information:

https://www.google.com/search?...

It's ridiculous at best.

Now, why don't they (government) stick to protecting the country by securing the border and using the info they're using from the blanket wiretapping to, oh, I dunno, prevent marathon bombings?

Tom = multiple /. sockpuppet using scum

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's let TOM speak shall we:

"I'm having great conversations on this site with one of my alias accounts" - by Tom (822) on Monday April 07, 2014 @02:29PM (#46686259) Homepage

FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

APK

P.S.=> Tom *tried* to libel me & failed after I destroyed him in a technical debate on hosts files... result?

Tom ended up "eating his words" here http://slashdot.org/comments.p... spiced with "the bitter taste of SELF-defeat" + HIS FOOT IN HIS MOUTH

... apk

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Darth Snowshoe]

There is a clear difference between being "anti-gun control" and distributing plans and the ability to make guns to every corner of the internet. Maybe he should spend a night in the Winchester House before he gets too blase (too late for that!) about all the people who will be killed with the designs he's propagated.

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

He is correct -- the left and the right fight over power, and what to do with it. But they both operate under the principle almost unlimited power is good...as long as our side wields it for things we lioe.

Precious few stand up anymore and say the existence of that much power, as a prize no less, is the wrong thing in itself. This was the attitude of the founding fathers, and of modern libertarians, which your meme masters have programmed you to think of as childlike...in the service of getting you to behave in a manner that spreads that power-is-right meme.

What about the bullets?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is something I barely hear in these kind of news stories.
Guns are obsolete if you take away the bullets.

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[Robb Swanson]

Cody is a gun nut, a pothead, and an anarchist. He is pro-crime, anti-police, anti-government. He wants everyone armed with every manner of illegal weaponry possible.

I'm not sure that I see your point.

Tom = multiple /. sockpuppet using scum

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's let TOM speak shall we:

"I'm having great conversations on this site with one of my alias accounts" - by Tom (822) on Monday April 07, 2014 @02:29PM (#46686259) Homepage

FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

APK

P.S.=> Tom *tried* to libel me & failed after I destroyed him in a technical debate on hosts files... result?

Tom ended up "eating his words" here http://slashdot.org/comments.p... spiced with "the bitter taste of SELF-defeat" + HIS FOOT IN HIS MOUTH

... apk

high on Adderall

[Anonymous Coward]

Am I the only one to think this guy is high on Adderall??!! Half of what he is saying makes no sense.

Aren't 3D printed guns missing key ingredient?

[Kubla Kahhhn!]

The firing pin?

Re:Why are we giving people like Cody any attentio

[mrex]

Cody is a gun nut, a pothead, and an anarchist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Tom = multiple /. sockpuppet using scum

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's let TOM speak shall we:

"I'm having great conversations on this site with one of my alias accounts" - by Tom (822) on Monday April 07, 2014 @02:29PM (#46686259) Homepage

FROM -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

APK

P.S.=> Tom *tried* to libel me & failed after I destroyed him in a technical debate on hosts files... result?

Tom ended up "eating his words" here http://slashdot.org/comments.p... spiced with "the bitter taste of SELF-defeat" + HIS FOOT IN HIS MOUTH

... apk