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How the FCC Plans To Save the Internet By Destroying It

New submitter dislikes_corruption writes: "Stopping the recently announced plan by the FCC to end net neutrality is going to require a significant outcry by the public at large, a public that isn't particularly well versed on the issue or why they should care. Ryan Singel, a former editor at Wired, has written a thorough and easy to understand primer on the FCC's plan, the history behind it, and how it will impact the Internet should it come to pass. It's suitable for your neophyte parent, spouse, or sibling. In the meantime, the FCC has opened a new inbox (openinternet@fcc.gov) for public comments on the decision, there's a petition to sign at whitehouse.gov, and you can (and should) contact your congressmen."

217 comments

  1. Congressional fix? by MacAndrew · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It seems to me the lobbying forces on the part of the content providers, Netflix et al., would be pretty formidable—unless they think the price is worth it to suppress upstart competition. Which is it?

    1. Re: Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Just like they had to break healthcare before they can fix it. How's that working out now?

    2. Re: Congressional fix? by MacAndrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Pretty damn well. You can't believe the difference things like lifting the bar to pre-existing conditions makes to families like ours. That they could have better job with this behemoth project, I don't doubt. That they would have done a better job if the other half Congress hadn't been obstuctionist jerks, I don't doubt either. Growing pains, not fault with the basic concept.

      To drift back on topic: ditto for net neutrality. Sometimes we do better without the market carved into big corporate fiefdoms and fake competition.

    3. Re:Congressional fix? by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      unless they think the price is worth it to suppress upstart competition

      Ding ding ding, we have a winner!

      People in favor of "regulation" because of the evils of "big business" need to familiarize themselves with the concept of regulatory capture. Big business loves regulation, because they've got legions of lawyers and compliance officers at their disposal, resources unavailable to any would-be start up. George Will writes about this topic frequently, in industries ranging from undertakers to electricians to nail salons.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    4. Re: Congressional fix? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If the purpose of health care is to help sick people, how does denying health care to sick people help further its purpose?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    5. Re: Congressional fix? by J.+J.+Ramsey · · Score: 4, Informative

      You trade pre-existing support now for death panels later. Have fun.

      Repeating as fact something that Politifact had rated as "Lie of the Year" for 2009 does not help your credibility.

    6. Re:Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they "love" the regulations they help craft/influence/pay for.

    7. Re: Congressional fix? by Belial6 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What health insurance doesn't have "death panels"? You do realize that there has never been a time that having health insurance meant that the insurance company would give you unlimited care, right?

    8. Re: Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Anecdotal outcomes don't answer whether the law is worthwhile. Ideally it would be good for everyone, but there will be mistakes and redistributions. Hopefully your outcome will improve; it doesn't sound fair.

    9. Re: Congressional fix? by mwvdlee · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Whoever thought of death panels is a sick, sick bastard.
      Hint: It wasn't the people who invented public healthcare.
      Countries that have had public healthcare for decades don't have death panels either.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    10. Re: Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Americans wanted National health care, yet they were given the choice of either shit-soup or a shit-sandwich. What the stupid Amicans got was the shit-soup{National Health Insurance}. American are just to stupid to be allowed to govern their own county. Let them drink the poisonous water, eat the poisoned fish, eat the tainted plants.

    11. Re: Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm curious what insurance to date had no "budget." If anything the inequities were far more severe, with lifetime caps on coverage, cancelled insurance, crippling premiums, skyrocketing copays, staggering deductibles.... believe me, I know firsthand.

    12. Re:Congressional fix? by MacAndrew · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And I suppose big business loves non-regulation, with the opportunities of monopoly. So win-win?

      I'll agree that regulation risks just shifting wealth from one corporate interest to another. Also, that regulaiton introduces its own barriers to competition. But to condemn regulation per se is mindless. We got enough of the robber barons ages ago.

      Now, back to my question.... which way will things tilt, and how much will the public interest matter.

    13. Re:Congressional fix? by SuperKendall · · Score: 0

      And I suppose big business loves non-regulation, with the opportunities of monopoly. So win-win?

      It's not really possible to have a monopoly without regulation, otherwise competition can easily take over business from a company that naturally ossifies as it grows.

      I'll agree that regulation risks just shifting wealth from one corporate interest to another.

      Not a risk. A certainly. Whoever figures out how to game (or control) the regulation becomes a de-facto monopoly.

      But to condemn regulation per se is mindless.

      Not so mindless as to promote regulation in a world that is rife with it already. When we get down to somewhere near 100 pages of regulation per company you can come calling back about the need for it.

      We got enough of the robber barons ages ago.

      When was that again? Are you are the label was not simply changed?

      how much will the public interest matter.

      Public intérÃts matters a great deal, but you CANNOT get the public to care about corporate interests taking over government. The only real solution is to reduce government control, thereby reducing the (easily hit) central target for corruption. Clamoring for more regulation to fix regulation is, to put it mildly, idiotic.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    14. Re:Congressional fix? by MacAndrew · · Score: 2

      Well, we'll have to differ then. The free market is an ideal, but a self-executing free market is a rarity. No regulation (or no government) is a nice jingle but there will always be something. (Is anyone saying more regulation/govenrment for its own sake? No, but they can be nasty side effects.) It's the law itself. Even the criminal law is a form of regulation—especially unlikely to be banned—and yes amending, sometimes repealing, it can improve it. That said, I do sympathize with the libertarian perspective (versus dogma) and think the government can be seen as just another ... corporation. Which means, regulate with care, not never.

      "Robber baron" just sounds cool. I don't think we have classic monopolies like oil and steel, but less the landscape is pretty messed up, and getting worse so with the repeal of Glass-Steagal and so on..... Just my 2 against $2 trillion.

    15. Re:Congressional fix? by mc6809e · · Score: 1

      It seems to me the lobbying forces on the part of the content providers, Netflix et al., would be pretty formidableâ"unless they think the price is worth it to suppress upstart competition. Which is it?
      I think they're getting to the point where they're willing to pay for prioritization just to guarantee quality.

      A big problem is that we have a transmission protocol (TCP) that is a well deployed but incredibly stupid protocol that that intentionally floods the network with packets until it breaks, then backs off for a little while, then tries to break the network again, always trying to consume every little extra bit of buffer space and bandwidth that might be available in competition with every other server that's doing the same thing. It's constant war with attacks and retreats.

      There are a least two approaches used to cope with this. One is to add bandwidth. The trouble is that TCP will greedily consume any additional bandwidth that's available and you're back to the original problem.

      The second is to buy your own little slice of bandwidth and isolate your stream from all the battles going on between the other streams. This solves the problem for you but creates a kind of bandwidth aparthied. Your traffic is finally safe, but there's less bandwidth available for everyone else.

      The media streamers would prefer guarantees so that their customers get the quality they pay for. Adding bandwidth doesn't provide any guarantee. Packet prioritization at the router (almost) does. We're getting to the point where Netflix, etc are willing to pay for prioritization that gives a guarantee.

    16. Re: Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So nationalizing the health insurance industry and forcing everyone to purchase it solves that problem?

      I can hear the alarms going off over there at neocon central: EVADE! EVADE! EVADE!

      Couldn't answer the question so you made up more bullshit like "nationalizing the health insurance industry" (which the liberals wanted but didn't get), just to throw everyone off the tracks.

    17. Re:Congressional fix? by artor3 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Wait, I think you're confused.

      "Regulation" in this case would be the FCC instituting net neutrality, so that the ISPs have to treat all comers equally. E.g., Comcast can't speed up Hulu at the expense of some small start-up video streaming site.

      The big businesses want to kill net neutrality because that will let them crush any new start-ups, and ensure that they maintain control of what we watch for generations to come. Sites like Netflix never would have gotten off the ground without net neutrality.

      The big businesses are trying to get rid of regulations, and you've twisted it around to say that we need to ...get rid of regulations. Either you're confused, or just some corporate bootlicker.

    18. Re: Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only one evading here is you.

      I answered your question. You've not GAINED anything. There's no additional health care, just a mandate that you have to buy health insurance, the contents of which are dictated by government mandate and which includes much higher deductibles to make it "affordable" and (as you so correctly point out) STILL has lifetime limits.

      And now the government tracks your complete and total medical experience for your own good citizen and mandates what doctors can and cannot discuss with you because all doctors are now government agents.

      I ask again.. what have you GAINED in terms of better medical health care? NOTHING

      So stop being so butthurt when I ram the truth up it. Now go get your bury brigade in action coz censorship is all you got.

    19. Re: Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So nationalizing the health insurance industry

      We nationalized everything a long time ago.

      There is no aspect of economic life where the Federal Government doesn't have the final say if they want.

      If you think you're economically free in some respect now, it's only because the Federal Government allows it.

      That's been the reality since the New Deal.

      Sorry.

    20. Re: Congressional fix? by NFN_NLN · · Score: 1

      You trade pre-existing support now for death panels later. Have fun. I hope you have a big appetite, because I have a feeling you're going to be eating those words about your "new and improved" healthcare in a few short years.

      Ditto for net neutrality should sheep like you have your way.

      This is why NEW ideas have such a hard time gaining traction. Save for the fact this isn't a NEW idea. It has been implemented successfully in basically all other modern industrial nations. This is like arguing the superiority of communism after the fall of communism (hopefully the irony of that example sets off the trolls, hahahha).

    21. Re: Congressional fix? by NFN_NLN · · Score: 2

      There is no such thing as death panels. It is just the insurance company working in "mysterious ways". That out has been working for god since the beginning of time and he gets away with starving children and gruesome deaths of innocent people by the hundreds.

    22. Re: Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or the superiority of under-regulated capitalism after actually living in it...

    23. Re: Congressional fix? by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Citing politifact as anything doesn't help your credibility. If you read them often, you'll find they are just editorialism in the guise of fact checking.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    24. Re: Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking as a European, while I'd love it for US citizens to enjoy the same standard of living that I do, the very best thing you can do for the EU economy is to not change.

      Please elect a republican president next time and carry on pulling the democrats to the right and don't, for the love of God, think outside your box.

    25. Re: Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you are against regulation for that will forbid a monopoly to give special treatment to wannabe monopolies that afford, but don't mind regulation that created this monopoly/oligopoly in the first place(Comcast)?

    26. Re: Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      You are mistaken - the one evading here is you. You did not answer the parent poster's question; rather, you posted a bunch of evasive horse shit telling someone you don't know that they have 'not GAINED anything', that the government tracks everything related to 'your complete and total medical experience', and that censorship is all they have. Way to evade, writer of horse shit.

    27. Re: Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Forcing people to buy health insurance is in no way "health care".

      But then we all seem to have forgotten that those who trade their medical liberty for sake of a placebo medical security deserve neither.

      You need to make a proper thesis. I can't follow your argument.

      Who?
      People

      What?
      Having rates normalized from a larger insurance pool takes away the false right to expected medical service.

      Why?
      ??

      --------------------
      Honestly speaking the best route to take to improve health care at this point, aside from stabilizing the insurance system, would be to work on lowering the cost. I don't mind a for-profit hospital or medical service, but prices for services are far too high.

    28. Re: Congressional fix? by bmo · · Score: 2

      >death panels

      You mean the insurance companies themselves? You know, the ones that would rather see you die than hand over the money for chemotherapy? Even if the US has the best healthcare in the world (we don't) it doesn't do you any good if you can't fucking pay for it in the so-called "free market" (which never existed, ever, except in your fevered imagination).

      >ditto for net neutrality

      Yeah, another imbecilic "talking point" originated by the right-wing-media owners (not you, obviously), tacitly agreed to by the left-wing media giants, and circulated round-and-round in the echo chamber-pots of the right-wing-nut-0-sphere.

      --
      BMO

    29. Re: Congressional fix? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      That was my point. Anyone that is still claiming "Death Panels" has dismissed "There are no 'death panels'." as a lie. My point was that anything you would call a 'death panel' under ObamaCare would need to be called a 'death panel' for all insurance since health insurance was first sold.

    30. Re: Congressional fix? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      It's certainly in a better state than it was before the new healthcare bill.

    31. Re:Congressional fix? by Shakrai · · Score: 2

      Sites like Netflix never would have gotten off the ground without net neutrality.

      And yet Netflix is one of the biggest abusers ever of the structure that built the internet. They've abused peering relationships to dump their traffic onto other providers while paying a fraction of what you or I would pay for similar traffic levels. They're currently pushing the absurd theory that they should get settlement free peering even though such agreements have traditionally been limited to connections with a roughly equal balance of traffic.

      The internet was built on the notion that providers get paid for delivering bits from point A to point B. You want me to get your traffic closer to its final destination? Pay me, or take a similar amount of traffic off my hands. That's how it has worked since the internet went private. The network neutrality advocates are well intentioned but ill informed regarding the economics of peering and the history of the internet. If you want to change the ecosystem you're going to need a convincing argument for why we need to regulate something that only took off because it was largely free of regulation. You'll need more to win me over than "What if" arguments and AT&T's CEO opening mouth and inserting foot.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    32. Re:Congressional fix? by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      It's not really possible to have a monopoly without regulation

      That seriously depends on the industry in question. Barriers to entry aren't solely determined by regulations.

    33. Re: Congressional fix? by Monkius · · Score: 1

      Thank you.

      --
      Matt
    34. Re: Congressional fix? by TrollstonButterbeans · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is bad enough you responded to derail troll. Worse that someone didn't mod both of you offtopic.

      Someone actually hurt this more by upmodding your reply to a derail.

      This is why our political system is broke, try to point out how Net Neutrality is vital, some goon brings up healthcare.

      Then someone else who thinks he is smart, agrees to change the conversation to healthcare to respond to a goon.

      BAM! You've been suckered and taken your eye off the ball: The ball is Net Neutrality.

      Don't take your eye off the ball.

      --
      Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
    35. Re: Congressional fix? by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 2

      That wasn't even what they were talking about. The 'death panels' was a requirement that coverage included sitting down with your doctor, possibly a counselor, your family, etc. when you had a fatal (or likely fatal) condition to discuss end-of-life care options. So you could make an informed decision about what you wanted.

      How that got warped into 'the government's going to kill you', I have no clue.

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    36. Re:Congressional fix? by dissy · · Score: 1

      Now, back to my question.... which way will things tilt, and how much will the public interest matter.

      OK, I'm willing to grant that the public mostly doesn't understand, let alone care about, net neutrality.
      I'll also go along and grant that companies such as ISPs don't see regulation as good, and that is a point against net neutrality in their case.

      So lets follow such a setup to end game. Lets revoke imminent domain regulations as well!
      This should be pretty easy comparatively.

      a) I can't see many, if any, individuals seeing this move as a bad thing in any way. Especially so once explained that imminent domain is the only thing keeping comcast and time warner telecom from paying you a monthly rental fee for running their wires on/under your land.
      Being able to charge each utility $10000 /month is a hell of a lot of missed income for us!

      b) The ISPs are already starting off with a negative score in attempting to argue for keeping imminent domain regulation, after all the quotes and talking points they have put out stating how awful and destructive such regulation will be to them.
      I personally wouldn't want to see them go out of business, so we should get rid of the regulations and have each and every land owner charging them extra rent in order to not have them go under.

      (No I don't understand how spending more than $0 saves them money - but I don't care either, it was their claim, and not my place to explain how their finances work. Otherwise we might have to grant that the ISPs are lying about their finances)

    37. Re:Congressional fix? by dissy · · Score: 1

      The big businesses want to kill net neutrality because that will let them crush any new start-ups, and ensure that they maintain control of what we watch for generations to come. Sites like Netflix never would have gotten off the ground without net neutrality.

      The big businesses are trying to get rid of regulations, and you've twisted it around to say that we need to ...get rid of regulations.

      SHH!!! I dont know about you, but I personally am really looking forward to the $50000/month checks these businesses are arguing they must pay me and every other land owner for the right to run their cables and such through our yards!

      At this point I don't care which side the companies want to argue for - I just plan to hold them to it across the board.

      They can either give us net neutrality regulations and keep imminent domain regulations as well, or alternately, they can say none of that regulation should exist, because net neutrality will harm their bottom line and they want to cut us all checks for the privileged of actually having this cable network they want say-so over.

      So even if we lose the net neutraliy battle, at the rates I plan to charge them for a cable troff I can safely say we will still have won the regulation war (and I'll never have to work another day again!)

      Perhaps the biggest advantage in favor of that option is by following both lines of logic to their ultimate conclusions. Both will end up fucking up most of the remaining first world features this country still has left, and fuck it pretty equally bad.
      If the ISPs insist on destroying world altering infrastructure that has been built over the past 200 years no matter which path they go down, we can at least shore up our retirement funds at their expense!

      I say it's a win-win for us, and the ISPs argued yesterday this would be a win-win for them too (before they thought things through, which while unlikely, still technically may happen)

    38. Re:Congressional fix? by Twanfox · · Score: 2

      Netflix isn't a network carrier, they are a content provider. That would seem to be problem #1 with your comments. Problem #2 is that content must be delivered to the requester, the end user. This idea that Netflix's CDN must pay to another carrier via peering trunks because the data is going to that other carrier's user doesn't seem much like a peering relationship. I mean, how can you be a peer with a local ISP? That Comcast built their own network backbone to run traffic along is nice and all that, but they're trying to be local ISP and a transit ISP at the same time. They've changed the look of the traditional model of Internet interconnects and are attempting to declare that everyone (customer and transit ISPs alike) must pay them to deliver content their own users are requesting. It is an abuse of these peering agreements, in my opinion.

    39. Re: Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Leverage

    40. Re: Congressional fix? by NFN_NLN · · Score: 1

      I was going to mention that but I know how much "a certain demographic" shits a brick if you stomp on their circle-jerk. Much like lower IQ animals, if I don't actually say trigger words then they won't clue in. Unfortunately, you did, and now you're getting voted down (as of now).

      Communism is just one extreme and and neither extreme is the answer. Just don't mention the S-word around animals that have been "conditioned" by their masters.

      For now I'm going for a W-A-L-K. :)

    41. Re:Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until they decide it's cheaper to make a [ turn around your shit. All they think is money and that includes making more of it and saving as much as possible even if it requires some dickery.

    42. Re:Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You probably mean "eminent domain", not "imminent domain". If you want to be taken seriously, learn the difference.

    43. Re:Congressional fix? by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Lie, told by a liar. Netflix generates very little traffic. Netflix customers generate all of the traffic. The end user at the location of their choice, connects to the Netflix site and sends a request for data firstly of content selection system and then of the content itself. Your bullshit is like claiming a supermarket fills roads full of traffic. The traffic is generated by customers driving to the store paying for what they want and returning home. All that's corruptly happening is a toll booth is being placed on the entry to the supermarket, forcing the customer to pay coming and going, the supermarket doesn't pay the customer does. Of course there wont be no toll on supermarkets owned by the toll operator, so basically it is all about anti-competitive behaviour and corrupt corporate practices.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    44. Re: Congressional fix? by DocHoncho · · Score: 1

      That's been the reality everywhere, forever. It's cute that the founders of the USA actually believed their experiment in limited government was ever going to last. The USA is simply catching up to where the rest of the world has always been. It was inevitable.

      --
      Celebrity worship is a poor substitute for Deity worship and costs more to boot.
    45. Re:Congressional fix? by Jayfar · · Score: 1

      You use that phrase a lot, blissfully unaware that there's no such legal device as imminent domain. Maybe you're referring to eminent domain? Not being able to spell the term, you probably know very little about what it entails.

    46. Re:Congressional fix? by InvalidError · · Score: 1

      CDNs are paid by content/service providers to get data from A to B, usually on a sender-pays basis. If the volume of data coming from them causes peering/transit to go imbalanced beyond what the agreements allows, it is not that hard to imagine the destination network being displeased about getting asked to eat the bill.

      The main problem with this is most ISPs are unlikely to pass the bucks they get from CDNs back to their subscribers.

    47. Re: Congressional fix? by Pseudonym · · Score: 2

      When government controls coverage (and it now does) and that coverage goes over budget... costs WILL be reduced

      Right now the US spends the highest proportion of GDP on health care of any developed country, and in return gets consistently mediocre outcomes. I bloody well hope costs will be reduced.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    48. Re:Congressional fix? by dissy · · Score: 1

      Don't blame me for firefox spell check. But to answer your question, no I am very bad at spelling, which is why I only questioned that "fix" for a few seconds instead of not at all as would be usual.

      Why would you suspect I am not familiar with what it entails however? Was that the multiple times I described it in detail that threw you off? Or was it your inability to look past a couple letters being swapped around that clearly had no effect on your understanding of my point?

      Since you seem OK making such assumptions, I'll take the safe route and answer my own question with a likely incorrect but still comical answer.

    49. Re:Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed, but in this particular case it is something different. This is "Big Lie" style politics. They want to enshrine "for-pay-fast-lane" and call it "net neutrality" -- despite it actually being the opposite. The goal is to get some lip service fluff regulation on the books that is *even harder* to fix than the current situation.

    50. Re:Congressional fix? by sjames · · Score: 1

      The 'imbalance' itself is a ludicrous notion when the peering is between source and destination (rather than mutual transit to 3rd parties).

      There is perfect balance between Netflix and Comcast. For every byte Netflix provides to Comcast, there is a paying Comcast customer who requested it.

      Balanced traffic in peering was originally a concern when the peering includes transit services. Say there are 4 networks, a-d connected up in a line. A-B-C-D. In that arrangement, B and C might agree to peering including transit. That is, C will send traffic bound for A through B and B will send traffic bound for D therogh C. They agree that as long as the traffic is more or less equal, they'll call it even.

      Traffic from C bound for B's customer was already paid for by B's customer, so wasn't counted at all. Likewise traffic from B bound for C's customer.

      Meanwhile, as far as I know, Comcast wasn't providing transit for Netflix and Netflix has no capability to provide transit for Comcast, so there was nothing to be imbalanced.

    51. Re:Congressional fix? by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      I have no lost love for the likes of Comcast or (in my area) Time Warner Cable. I'm just disinclined to allow my disgust with them on issues far and wide to blind me to the fact that they may have an element of justification in their displeasure of Netflix dumping huge amounts of traffic onto them for pennies on the dollar.

      My career in IT started in the ISP business, working for a small dial up ISP that was first-to-market in our area with internet service. Later we were first-to-market with broadband, deploying wireless services a full six months before Time Warner had DOCSIS and nearly a year before Frontier had ADSL. I can tell you that mainstream internet video services would have killed our business. As it was, the rise of P2P services (Napster and especially Kazaa/Limewire) nearly killed us, though at least those were only being used by a fraction of our users and we could throttle them without much complaint. Heck, no complaint really, since the user of these services was invariably the child of a paying customer, not the paying customer themselves.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    52. Re:Congressional fix? by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Balanced traffic in peering was originally a concern when the peering includes transit services.

      There's still plenty of transit going on. Comcast owns a nation wide backbone. Netflix isn't dumping this content into Comcast's network one or two hops removed from my house. Comcast still has to get it from Point A to Point B.

      Of course, we're all kind of overlooking the bigger problem: The Internet was never designed to be a point to point video delivery system. You can't deliver video in such a fashion as cheaply as point to multipoint systems (i.e., Cable television, satellite, and OTA) can. The economics of residential internet connections were geared towards occasional bursts of use, not sustained multi-megabit (double megabit with super HD or houses with multiple TVs) transfers for the entire 5.11 hours per day that the typical American watches TV.

      Money is required to fund the infrastructure improvements to continue to deliver video in this inefficient fashion. That money is going to come from all parties, the content-providers and the end-users, not just one of them. And yes, the ISPs will probably try and use it to increase revenue, because (shock) they're for-profit companies and that's what they do.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    53. Re:Congressional fix? by InvalidError · · Score: 1

      For every byte Netflix provides to Comcast, there is a paying Comcast customer who requested it.

      Not really: Comcast subscribers are not paying for any particular quantity of Netflix or any other content and may not even be subscribers of. Flat monthly rates are based on bulk average costs plus markups where the low-volume users "subsidize" the high-volume users so the ISPs can meet their gross profit margin target.

      As for "Comcast not providing transit to Netflix," keep in mind that this whole thing started with Comcast not liking how thin L3 was stretching their (Comcast-L3) peering agreement to avoid paying to deliver Netflix's traffic. If L3 had decided to re-negotiate their Comcast peering, L3 would have passed the bill to Netflix and Netflix would have passed it down to their subscribers, which is fundamentally what happened with the direct connect agreement Netflix ended up signing with Comcast to bypass L3 altogether.

      Personally, I like the idea of popular high-bandwidth services eating a bigger chunk of the downstream costs so non-subscribers might not have to. It would also give content provider incentives to use new forms of more cost-efficient distribution methods.

    54. Re:Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Netflix isn't a network carrier, they are a content provider.

      Are you saying that bits that come from a "content provider" are somehow cheaper for the ISPs to handle than bits that come from a "network carrier"?

    55. Re: Congressional fix? by Will.Woodhull · · Score: 2

      As parent post points out, the insurance industry is HUGE, one of the largest industries in the USA.

      And yet, insurance produces nothing: it is not manufacture. It does not provide services that facilitate manufacture, transport of goods, or merchant affairs. The insurance industry does nothing except provide a means for you to bet against yourself; it is an abased form of gambling that contributes not one penny toward creating wealth.

      Since the government cannot outlaw it, the government should have total control over it. Being as how the insurance industry is the greatest threat to capitalism that the USA has ever faced, and one of the basic tenets of the USA government is that it should guard capitalism against threats.

      --
      Will
    56. Re:Congressional fix? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Not really: Comcast subscribers are not paying for any particular quantity of Netflix or any other content and may not even be subscribers of. Flat monthly rates are based on bulk average costs plus markups where the low-volume users "subsidize" the high-volume users so the ISPs can meet their gross profit margin target.

      Comcast made the offer freely and the customers accepted. It's a bit late for Comcast to be complaining about it. There are transfer limits involved even though the original offer was 'unlimited'. In reality, transfer rate is the driving factor in infrastructure costs.

      I thought it was Cogent they were arguing with. The answer to that for Comcast is to restrict the routes they announce at the various peering points. It's a bit low class to drag Netflix directly into what was a dispute between two network providers, especially when Netflix already made a standing offer to provide cache servers within Comcast's network.

    57. Re:Congressional fix? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Netflix wasn't involved in the routing decisions. They were paying Cogent to take care of that. If Comcast didn't like where Cogent was dumping the traffic onto their network, they should have adjusted the routes they advertised to the peering routers.

      They could also have taken Netflix up on their standing offer to provide cache servers.

    58. Re:Congressional fix? by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      They could also have taken Netflix up on their standing offer to provide cache servers.

      Also known as co-location, another service that ISPs have traditionally provided for a fee, fees that Netflix is attempting not to pay by throwing its weight around. It's not Comcast's job to subsidize Netflix's business model. That's what it is, a subsidy, because those "free" servers take up rack space, electricity, man-hours, and bandwidth.

      Seriously, I don't understand why Netflix comes off as the golden boy in these discussions, or even why people are such fans of them. What other company can double prices during a recession, delay new content, and fail to pro-rate refunds, yet still have such a loyal following?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    59. Re:Congressional fix? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Nor is it Netflix's job to subsidize Comcast. That's why they were willing to meet them half way. Why would Netflix want to pay Comcast for the privilege of saving Comcast money?

      I am not a Netflix customer and have little knowledge of their prices etc.

    60. Re: Congressional fix? by bbsalem · · Score: 2

      Both of you are missing the point, or getting suckered by elitist arguments. As it stands now only a tiny minority of people can pay fully for their health care. The ACA sounded like a good idea until you analyze it as 1) Not addressing the root causes for the costs of health care in the U.S. which are twice as high per capeta as the next most expensive nation, and 2) That the ACA as enacted by Congress is basically subdedized insurance with no controls on private insurers raising premiums and on controlling what the health care industry gets to charge. The worst case scenereo for the Conservatives who fought against it, may either be the only fix, that in order to provide health care to a majority it has to be nationalized just to get cost disclosures and controls, or it becomes another example of society degrading into have and have-nots, which Conservatives, who are to a man elitist, don't mind, but that will further degrade the society. Inequalities are a real threat to this nation especially when people remember their not being an issue. When people have tasted fairness and equality they behave badly when it is taken away.

      Something similar is going to happen to the Internet and over the issue of net-neutrality, which has become moot as ISVs throttle connections and Google Search biases results. The Social Media business model is all about biasing results of searches so that business partners are favored; that is at least as serious a problem as biasing access to IP addresses. The Internet is then killing itself through spying, spamming, and Social Media is a huge cause. People are getting turned off, even despite Facebook's revenue claims, just as death panels in insurance companies or Midicare are a threat to the health care status quo, a major abuse of data Facebook is gathering on anyone who visits the site would be enough to frighten people off the Internet.

      Just as failure of health care might prompt doing something completely differently, note the pressure on health care professionals to donate their time to free clinics to help the under served. so maybe the answer to on-line communication is to imagine a non-IP network that removes the choak points of the current Internet and one which uses much more dynamic routing, perhaps even communication technology that avoids both the wired Internet and the wireless cartels, and for the reason of better communication that is more secure. Such a network could be quite different from the current Internet. Users may have to adjust to latent communications, but if you remember the days of UUCP and dialup, that is only a delay of instant gratification. You may need to accept that in order to make it harder for governments and corporations to spy on you, and to be free of the abuses of social media.

      Likewise you might have to accept that nationalizing health care, or at least the threat of it, might force the health care industry to disclose its costs and its profits and the same for insurers. People love to hate government when graft is exposed. Those who cry the most about the abuse of government power fail to own up to the fact that if private business had to disclose as much it too would be blamed for graft, and since people are people everywhere, and abuse of power occurs often in secret. it may be that the threat of socialism might force the health care industry and related business to clean their house and justify their costs. That included some responsibility on the part of the public to begin asking about whether their health care dollar is used wisely by the industry. One thing is clear, Medicare is a huge player in dealing with costs, just through its share of the market, and the government could have a large effect on what everybody does by just holding providers accountable. It may be that the Congress in trying to reduce entitlements was prevented much more by those professions and businesses who had come to be used to their subsedy and less by concern for the recipients of the services.

    61. Re: Congressional fix? by delt0r · · Score: 1

      really. I am living in my 3rd country. I get unlimited care. What good is health insurance if it only covers you when your healthy enough?

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    62. Re: Congressional fix? by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      You know, I keep hearing that healthcare costs are too difficult to price out for comparison. However, just last week I heard an NPR report about people taking longer to pay their bills to doctors. So of course the docs put in systems that can immediately figure out how much a procedure costs so people can prepay. It calculates insurance and everything.

      I thought this was revealing. Here's the story: http://www.npr.org/blogs/healt...

    63. Re:Congressional fix? by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Seriously, I don't understand why Netflix comes off as the golden boy in these discussions...

      It's almost like people have been so sorely abused they are welcoming anything that changes things. I think this is more of a commentary on how reviled the traditional cable and telecom companies are.
      (that sentence is terrible...)

    64. Re:Congressional fix? by Twanfox · · Score: 1

      They aren't "dumping huge amounts of traffic onto them" for the purposes of routing through their backbone to some other carrier's user, though. They're dumping huge amounts of traffic onto Comcast's network because Comcast USERS are ASKING for it. You make it sound like Netflix is DDOSing Comcast, but it's frankly just providing a service that customers want to access. If you, as an last-mile or local ISP cannot handle that traffic, then it is either on you to improve your service to handle the traffic your users are requesting, throttle it down so that you have bandwidth for other purposes, or advertise "Cannot access Internet Video Services here" and ensure that your customers know where not to go if that is the service they're after.

      If you can phrase your disgust in a way that doesn't involve misunderstanding how client-server traffic works, we might find understanding with your position. As it is, though, you totally misunderstand how data from Netflix finds its way onto the Internet, and why it goes where it goes.

    65. Re:Congressional fix? by Twanfox · · Score: 1

      Netflix isn't a network carrier, provider of internet services, or anything else that involves routing or handling of network packets. They are a catalyst for a discussion on Internet monopolies because they came up with something Done Right. They have a successful business model in that they provide a service that a LOT of people enjoy and want to use. What stands in the way is the network and rent-seeking companies unwilling to improve infrastructure because it cuts into their profits. Netflix's involvement is incidental to this discussion, and it could've been any other product with such popularity. Skype, if video calling ever really took off. Facebook, if it comes up with Virtual Reality social networking. Video poker, with real video streams.

      So, from this Netflix-instigated problem, we have these questions. Is it acceptable for Comcast to use it's monopoly position over its user base to provide preferential treatment to it's own video on demand services, the same services in direct competition to Netflix? Is it acceptable for composite local+transit ISPs to keep their peering interconnects at or near capacity to encourage content providers to co-locate services at said ISP, and then blame self-imposed network saturation as reason why? Is it acceptable that the expectation is that, once you get one kind of internet service, you are unlikely to get another improved service in anything under a decade?

      I'm all for companies making a profit. I don't hold a grudge against them for doing it. What I hold a grudge against is said companies using their position not to provide the best possible service, but to extract the most profit possible for the least amount of work.

    66. Re: Congressional fix? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      So you are telling me that your insurance will pay for a heart transplant while you are laying in bed with inoperable brain cancer which is expected to kill you within 2 months?

    67. Re: Congressional fix? by Mullen · · Score: 1

      Well, the USA does not. To get a heart you need to go before a panel to decide if you are "worthy" and you will survive. If you will not survive or you are not going to take care of yourself, you will not get that heart. I'm pretty sure that the "insurance will pay for a heart transplant while you are laying in bed with inoperable brain cancer which is expected to kill you within 2 months" is Right Wing propaganda bullshit.

      --
      Linux O Muerte!
    68. Re: Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish I had 50 mod points (or a megaphone for you). I've never heard it stated any better than you have stated it here.

    69. Re: Congressional fix? by Belial6 · · Score: 1

      No, YOU said that your insurance does not make any disicions on whether they will cover your treatment or not. YOU claimed that your insurance will pay no matter the cost. The reality is that all insurance has always had limits. There has never been any practical way for insurance to function. Perhaps you are just obsessed with the mythical Right Wing bad guys behind every tree.

    70. Re: Congressional fix? by nobodie · · Score: 1

      only if you disagree with the facts

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
    71. Re: Congressional fix? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      lol so true, Politifact is facts because they have the word 'fact' in their name. Indisputable.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    72. Re: Congressional fix? by delt0r · · Score: 1

      Yes I am. Seriously whats the point if it only covers things i could afford my self anyway. If doctors say that is the best bet. Insurance will cover it. This is Europe after all. I pay ~300CHF a month and by law they must cover your medical expenses. They can't just come out with "too expensive". That's not insurance, that.. is i don't know? Theft?

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    73. Re: Congressional fix? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      K. S. Kyosuke: You've been called out (for tossing names) & you ran "forrest" from a fair challenge http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

  2. And yet by koan · · Score: 2

    I'm mocked when I point out the blatant conspiracy between corporations and the FCC.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  3. The general public is incredibly stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Capitalism is nice until corporations grow big enough. At some point they start to strive towards a monopoly and this is where the core idea of capitalism dies. It's the end of competition and consumers suffer the most.

    The political spectrum in the US needs some new parties and fast.

    1. Re:The general public is incredibly stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is too late to save our government with diplomacy. They are corrupt to the core and only civil war will make done what needs to be.

    2. Re:The general public is incredibly stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The public is not stupid. It is congress taking bribes from corporations in favor of serving the people who are stupid. I hope I live to see the day every congressman gets their fucking head blown the fuck off, and I hope even more that I get to participate. This bullshit has gone too fucking far. This military and police corportocracy in the US HAS GONE TOO FUCKING FAR. THIS BULLSHIT THE NSA HAS DONE HAS UNDERMINED OUR NATIONAL SECURITY AND THERE STILL HAS NOT BEEN 1 FUCKING ARREST IN THE NSA, WHY???

    3. Re:The general public is incredibly stupid by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      same reason there aren't any arrests yet for the massive fraud, illegally transference of contracts, falsified documents, etc in the "housing bubble" debacle. Those who make the gold make the rules.

    4. Re:The general public is incredibly stupid by DocHoncho · · Score: 1

      I don't know if anything you said is true, but it doesn't really matter. Problem is, there are no viable alternatives!/em If you think the Dem's don't do shit just like this all the time, you're deluded. R or D, they're all a bunch of opportunistic scoundrels, taking every chance to bolster their own position and prestige, regardless of the cost to the rest of us.

      --
      Celebrity worship is a poor substitute for Deity worship and costs more to boot.
    5. Re:The general public is incredibly stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the end of competition and consumers suffer the most.

      We really should stop using the word "consumers." It's citizens who suffer the most. The word "consumers" is an attempt to reduce citizens to passivity: entities that have no input into their society, but who simple receive its effects.

    6. Re:The general public is incredibly stupid by Laxori666 · · Score: 1

      The core idea of capitalism died long ago when corporations could lobby the government to put the laws they want into place. The rest is predictable. The biggest dishonesty is that we consider so many markets to be free markets when in fact they aren't.

    7. Re:The general public is incredibly stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not that capitalists support it, it's that those who support it find it politically useful to label themselves as 'capitalists'.

      Captcha: inequity

    8. Re:The general public is incredibly stupid by NewYork · · Score: 1

      And monoply is nothing but a Pyramid Scandal in Globalization.

  4. Another petition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/maintain-true-net-neutrality-protect-freedom-information-united-states/9sxxdBgy

  5. They don't care. by dicobalt · · Score: 2

    They have the lobby money, they vote the way they are told to vote by the guys who have the nice suits and lots of money. Because if they don't, the Internet will fall to pieces for the entire country, nay the world. As the guys in suits have said it will happen, unless you choose them as your savior.

    1. Re:They don't care. by Albanach · · Score: 2

      The rest of the world will likely ignore this, as most other countries have avoided creating such duopoly/monopoly situations as have been encouraged by regulation in the United States. Where providers have to compete, there's little incentive to be the carrier that slows down service X,Y or Z. If necessary, the other countries that do have monopolies will use regulation to achieve much the same.

  6. Be Specific by dislikes_corruption · · Score: 4, Informative

    I should have included this in the summary: when you write to the FCC or your congressmen be specific - we need to reclassify Internet providers as common carriers. If you just say you're in favor of net neutrality they'll weasel around it again. They've already tried to redefine net neutrality as whatever it is that they're doing at the moment.

    1. Re:Be Specific by MacAndrew · · Score: 1

      Well said. I would be even more specific and say you don't want the carriers to discriminate or, god forbid, they'll redefine common carriers. ;-) I'm not sure most congresspeople understand the issue anywhere near as well as they understand who is for or against—politics.

    2. Re:Be Specific by hairyfeet · · Score: 1, Interesting

      And if you believe that petitioning get you anything but a round of smoke blown up your ass by a white house lackey? then you should ask the Easter Bunny if he can give you a ride to neverland. Show me a SINGLE time in the last decade, just one, that the people went against corporate interests that got anything but a "silly little peasant, we're ignoring you" bullshit response. Pot decriminalization? bullshit response and feds kicking in doors, stop writing the ACA behind closed doors? bullshit response and lobbyist slots reserved on the panel.

      All you can do is grab as much as you can from the government, every single dime you can, and wait for the collapse. that's it, that's ALL you can do because as a study recently showed "The US is an oligarchy" (look it up, the study came out last week and was on several major sites) which means if it comes up against money interests the populace WILL lose, no matter how much they protest. at best all that you will accomplish is to get them to send the propaganda team out to make the rounds so all the talking heads bleat about how wonderful this is and how anybody who doesn't support this is a marxist pinko.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    3. Re:Be Specific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. It's laughable. If you want freedom and neutral exchange of information you need to consistently be for freedom. People pick and choose their issues to get involved with and are hypocritical to no end. Pols eat this up. Campaigns like this do nothing, what we need is principled across the board activism. You have to defend freedom, even when you disagree with it. American politics is a hodgepodge of issues with inconsistent approaches because our citizens turn on each other faster than anyone. Government is just a club sold to the highest bidder and biggest voting block.

    4. Re:Be Specific by dislikes_corruption · · Score: 4, Informative

      What, you've forgotten about SOPA already? Things do happen when you spread the word widely enough.

      That study about the US being an oligarchy basically comes down to the Citizen's United decision paving the way for deep and widespread corruption. And that's a huge problem, no question, bigger than net neutrality for sure. But SOPA happened just last year, well after Citizen's United was passed. The Oligarchs don't control everything, just most of it.

      You are certainly right to be outraged, maybe even despondent, but your fatalism isn't going to help anything. If you're upset about the oligarchy study you have two options: find a way to leave the country - Canada is nice, and apparently they have the richest middle class in the world now. Or you can volunteer for a campaign finance amendment which would overturn the Citizen's United decision.

      Don't underestimate that second option. At the very least it would be a good life experience. Maybe you'd learn something, maybe you'd accomplish something, but at the very least you'd be contributing and doing something a little different with your time.

    5. Re:Be Specific by theArtificial · · Score: 1
      Not sure if you've seen this: Princeton Study Confirms 'US Is An Oligarchy' (warning pdf). Here's a little summary of it.

      The study found that even when 80% of the population favored a particular public policy change, it was only instituted 43% of the time.

      --
      Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
    6. Re:Be Specific by DocHoncho · · Score: 1

      Biggest difference I can see between this and SOPA, is that those proposing SOPA had elections to worry about. The FCC is appointed by the Executive branch and serves at their pleasure. Honestly, what the articles author really meant by the FCC being scared of the ISPs is that if they do something the ISPs don't like, well they can say good-bye to the revolving door and a lucrative contract with an ISP after they leave the FCC. Comcast's head lobbyist is a former FCC commissioner for Christ's sake!

      --
      Celebrity worship is a poor substitute for Deity worship and costs more to boot.
    7. Re:Be Specific by dryeo · · Score: 1

      While the median income in Canada might be slightly higher then the States, the cost of living is 30% higher on average. And it is much worse in the oil patch where the average is pushed up by labourers making $80,000 and skilled people making double that.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    8. Re:Be Specific by dislikes_corruption · · Score: 1

      The FCC does not serve at the pleasure of the executive branch. It's an independent agency. I know that I pushed a Whitehouse.gov petition, and I do think that's important, but the congress is the only group that can control the FCC directly, through legislation, and there are midterm elections coming up. This is not hopeless.

    9. Re:Be Specific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are counting on the government to collapse, why would you hoard government tendered currency?

  7. don't know don't care by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    to do more, i pay more. well, that's what my three brothers-in-law say.

  8. Signed from France by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for the heads up.
    I'm not even sure if those "whitehouse accounts" are supposed to be open to foreigners, but it's not going to stop me to vote for a neutral net.

    1. Re:Signed from France by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The US has no concept of "foreigners". And the US citizens are spread around the globe. Why should a US citizen in France be denied the ability to sign a petition, when they can vote for president? So the petitions are (and should be) open world-wide, and the closing off of them should only be done in a way that identifies citizens, and I'm guessing that was "too hard" as there's no citizen list to check against.

    2. Re:Signed from France by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      true...per the NSA everyone is a "foreigner", since somewhere they have done some type of electronic access that might have eventually crossed outside of the US. Per their logic, if anything that can be remotely tied to you has ever crossed any international routers, then every single electronic signal you have ever sent is now open for recording, auditing, and data mining!

  9. Problem 1 is to get people to pay attention by rbrander · · Score: 1

    The Globe and Mail did a story on it the other day. I took a few minutes to put in a longish comment, thinking this would be yet another right/left shoutfest.
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com...

    I dropped back a few hours later to see who'd called me a commie, only to see it only got a few comments and was dropped off the main page already - presumably because the web server had noticed almost nobody was reading it.

    If people don't pay attention to government, the bad guys generally win.

    1. Re:Problem 1 is to get people to pay attention by Andrio · · Score: 1

      As much as it angers me, I don't think Net Neutrality can survive. People don't know, and the places they get their news from--the CNNs, Fox Newses, NBCs--they will never cover net neutrality in any meaningful way. I mean, hell, NBC is owned by Comcast, and we sure as hell know where they stand on net neutrality.

      --
      The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
    2. Re:Problem 1 is to get people to pay attention by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      I think that people have missed the obvious solution. Define "Internet service" as access to all sites on the Internet without restriction or prejudice. Then the FCC hands off "net neutrality" to the FTC for false advertising lawsuits for anyone that claims "Internet service" that delivers an AOL version of the world, with paid preference and hidden/slow access to the rest Internet.

      Of course that would fail when people sell "the world network" with disclaimers in the fine print. The US is broken that way. Many other places disallow fine print that contradicts the large print. "Free sandwiches on Tuesdays" (only applies to butter sandwiches, and must buy 6 regular priced sandwiches for each free one) would be illegal elsewhere, but is perfectly fine in the US. A reasonable person wouldn't conceive of such restrictions when seeing the big print. "Buy-6 get a free butter sandwich" would be the better large print. But no, in the US, we have given up consumer protection, and it's down to corporate protection.

  10. The problem is having lobbyists heading the FCC by fightinfilipino · · Score: 3, Informative

    Tom Wheeler and other cable lobbyists should not and must not be in charge of any agency that purports to be for the public good.

    sign this petition to target that very problem: http://wh.gov/lwhr8

    1. Re:The problem is having lobbyists heading the FCC by Andrio · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Anyone who is against net neutrality either (1) has no understanding of what it means, or (2) is being bankrolled by a corporate interest. I doubt that the FCC doesn't understand what net neutrality is, so that only leaves option (2).

      Funny how net neutrality suddenly dies as soon as a former telecom lobbyist/CEO became the FCC chairman.

      --
      The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
    2. Re:The problem is having lobbyists heading the FCC by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Anyone who is against net neutrality either (1) has no understanding of what it means, or (2) is being bankrolled by a corporate interest. I doubt that the FCC doesn't understand what net neutrality is, so that only leaves option (2).

      Funny how net neutrality suddenly dies as soon as a former telecom lobbyist/CEO became the FCC chairman.

      I'm against net neutrality, and have been ever since congress decided to change what "net neutrality" meant. I'm all for common carriers being treated as common carriers though, and for mail laws to apply to data packets (inspection of packets contents for the purpose of routing the packets is OK, not for the purpose of data mining or prioritizing the packets -- we've got headers for that; use them).

    3. Re:The problem is having lobbyists heading the FCC by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Informative

      Mostly people who don't know what it means. So far, *every* version of net neutrality has allowed for throttling of P2P for "network health" but so many people claim (wrongly) that net neutrality would make it illegal for a provider to deliberately and with justification, control their own network.

      There are a number of loonitarians here that object on principle regarding a government regulation on a private network. Yes, that comes down to ignorance of what the regulation is, but also a general objection to any and all regulations, no matter how beneficial.

    4. Re:The problem is having lobbyists heading the FCC by dislikes_corruption · · Score: 1

      Oh hey, that's a good one. Signed.

    5. Re:The problem is having lobbyists heading the FCC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blocking p2p in the name of network health kind of defeats the point of net neutrality. It's a shame that p2p only has a negative effect on network health when the number of connections is set too high (something which is entirely too common in bittorrent client defaults).

    6. Re:The problem is having lobbyists heading the FCC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Come on people! This petition expires on May 25th and there are only 2700 signatures!

    7. Re:The problem is having lobbyists heading the FCC by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Blocking p2p in the name of network health kind of defeats the point of net neutrality.

      No, it doesn't. Blocking Skype because you sell VoIP defeats the point of net neutrality. Picking a "class" of traffic, that even you indicates causes actual harm, and reducing that harm on others doesn't seem to be a bad thing. As you hint, if that were the case, maybe the P2P makers would make their stuff to be less abusive so that it would not be targeted so much for throttling.

      Note, even if they are declared "common carriers" they could still filter P2P. The standard of proof for harm to the network increases, but not the legal capabilities to address that harm.

    8. Re:The problem is having lobbyists heading the FCC by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

      "Regulatory capture" is the econ term for this phenomenon. This is why people trust Consumer Reports magazine more than the FDA or the NHTSC or any of the other federal regulatory agencies -- or, at least, why they should.

      If Consumer Reports or UL or whoever starts doing a bad job they will no longer have as much credibility -- or revenue.

      Nobody quits paying taxes just because regulatory agencies or the DoD or Congress works badly/slowly/corruptly. (Well, not enough to matter.)

      http://duckduckgo.com/?q=regulatory.capture

      --
      There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
  11. come on /. step up ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    97 of 99898 to sign the petition ...

  12. TL;DR for neophytes? by virtualXTC · · Score: 1

    I'm sorry, but even my CCNA certified girlfriend is going to get hung up on the use of TL;DR. I doubt my parents would read past it.

  13. Not suitable by raarts · · Score: 2

    I have read Ryan Singel's article. It is NOT "suitable for your neophyte parent, spouse, or sibling."
    Far too long and too complicated. My father (who is 76 and worked in insurance) would not understand any of it.

    I think we all will have a very hard time explaining this to the public

    1. Re:Not suitable by dislikes_corruption · · Score: 1

      If you need something short and punchy you could try this picture: https://i.imgur.com/wrAJgjA.jp...

      It's not really an explanation, but it does get the point across.

    2. Re:Not suitable by raarts · · Score: 1

      Let me draw a parallel, and compare the Comcast vs Netflix conflict with your government vs Amazon:

      What Comcast has done, is similar to your government checking all delivery trucks at the borders, and if they deliver Amazon goods, hold them for a couple of days while 'checking their papers'. In public statements they claimed: Amazon is so big that they are clogging our border infrastructure, so that's why it takes so long until you get your stuff. They need to pay for all the extra handling at the borders.

      This is the heart of the conflict. Netflix' customers just want better service, most of them do not know about Comcast efforts to extort money from Netflix.

      The stance of the Net Neutrality people is that this is just an extortion scheme, that tax payers should pay for the roads, and that if government (being a monopolist) is allowed to tax companies like Amazon, (receiving money from both sides), in the end we'll end up with an internet which is not equal for everybody, and in the end the customer will suffer because prices will go up, and service will go down.

  14. Vice too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A good article from Vice also talks about how the FCC is being run by former communications company lobbyists and other insiders.

    This will be Obama's true lasting legacy, unfortunately.

  15. I sent this to each of the Commissioners: by CAOgdin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The United States of America was founded on principles of justice and freedom for all.

    o During the Oklahoma Land Run of 1889, there were no special "carve-outs" for people of wealth. Every participant started racing at the sound of the starter's gun.

    o When railroads were built, there were special coaches for first class, but they were part of the same train, going at the same speed, along the same route, to the same destination.

    o While the rich can buy their own jet aircraft, the Air Traffic Control system that manages all aircraft in the skies give no special treatment to the jet aircraft, nor the lone pilot in a Piper Cub.

    o When Eisenhower created the Interstate Highway system, he did not mandate special travel lanes for trucks or limousines; all traffic uses the same routes.

    Every one of these historical innovations lifted up the poor, the middle class, and the rich. As a result, we became the world's most respected democracy, and the model for many other, newer countries to emulate.

    Now, the FCC would like to change all that history and allow those who can afford to pay for a "special lane" on the Internet, crowding out other traffic, and making it slower. It will reward the oligarchs and penalize the common citizen.

    I have been in the computer and electronics industry, from bench technician to CEO, since 1957. Now retired, I have watched as the very rich people, and the very large corporations have worked tirelessly in recent decades to destroy that equality of opportunity. If we are to survive as a nation, we must return to a democracy, with every citizen treated fairly and equitably.

    We should, instead, be requiring our "common carriers" to expand their Internet capacity, robustness and security for all. Where there is plenty of reliable capacity, everyone will have the opportunity to use the Internet without disadvantage. The large carriers, like Comcast (which the FCC has misclassified), AT&T, Verizon, et. al., have been intentionally restricting their expansion of the Internet to make it slower and slower. Yes, they save the investments they should be making. But, deeper and more cynically, they have been intending to leverage those self-imposed restrictions into higher prices for these restricted servicesby adding a special lane for those willing to pay.

    "Demos" is the Greek word for people; "kratia" is the Greek word for rule. Democracy puts the emphasis on people deciding how to rule. When appointed public officials usurp that decision-making to favor one class of people (or corporations) over another, it has violated basic democratic principles. The consequences will be uncomfortable for the citizens, and will erode our principles and the quality of our beloved nation.

    You are a public, appointed official. I trust you will decide on the basis of democracy that the rich deserve no more preferential treatment than the middle class or the poor. We need to expand our Internet capacity for all, not make it available only to the highest bidders, driving all prices upward for the benefit of the already-rich.

    1. Re:I sent this to each of the Commissioners: by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      This is beautifully worded, not too long and very convincing.

      But just like "Demos" is Greek for people and "kratia" is Greek for rule, "Poli" is Greek for many and "ticks" is English for little bloodsuckers. It may be me, but I just don't have much hope for our politicians actually working in our interest and not in that of those they can suck from.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:I sent this to each of the Commissioners: by kheldan · · Score: 1

      I applaud your rhetoric, sir. Well done.

      It may be though that we do have to see the Internet 'destroyed' before it can be better again. The infrastructure that makes the Internet work isn't going to go away because asshats at corporations like Comcast and AT&T and in Congress are being asshats and screwing it up for everyone, it'll all still be here when the smoke clears. I, like everyone else who understands the problem, would prefer that it not come to that, but at the same time if they need to be given enough rope to all hang themselves, then I'm OK with that, too. This, too, shall pass.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    3. Re:I sent this to each of the Commissioners: by FuzzNugget · · Score: 1

      This is beautifully worded, not too long and very convincing.

      But just like "Demos" is Greek for people and "kratia" is Greek for rule, "Poli" is Greek for many and "ticks" is English for little bloodsuckers. It may be me, but I just don't have much hope for our politicians actually working in our interest and not in that of those they can suck from.

      They can all suck my dick.

    4. Re:I sent this to each of the Commissioners: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? You make the assumption that; first, they can read and understand, and secondly, if they did it would somehow matter more than money.

      You are trying to dissuade them from their god and we all know how well that works!

    5. Re:I sent this to each of the Commissioners: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have a strange sense of freedom. The pipes are privately owned. They should privately determine how and what to charge the users. You want them to extend their bandwidth and capabilities, but you don't want them to be able to charge for it.

      Your examples of roads etc. are all terrible. When the first telegraphs came online, you bid for a spot, and the rich got to send messages and the poor didn't. If they didn't do this, then trivial messages would delay very important messages, the importance is dictated by price.

      Net neutrality is so anti-american I can't even believe what I am seeing. None of your comments make any sense, they would only apply to a government run network where it was all paid for via taxes.

      Net neutrality is a terrible idea because it allows a minority (heavy internet users) to greatly effect the majority (average users). For example if a minority is flooding the pipes with bit torrent, it makes sense for the companies to throttle bit torrent, and/or charge users more to get more bittorrent band width. This is not a violation of 'neutrality' its simply market supply and demand. Does it make any sense at all for 99% of consumers to suffer because a few clowns are flooding the pipes? And you have the gal to claim this is 'democracy' and 'neutrality'. You really need to look up the contention ratio's. The truth is the internet is only viable at all when the majority use it a little bit and keep the 'roads' uncongested.

      I swear net neutrality people live in a delusion where they think that with net neutrality everyone will get unrestricted awesome internet. The truth is, if you have net neutrality banning ISP's from redirecting 404's to adverts, then you will just end up with higher prices for everyone. If you have net neutrality stopping throttelling then you will just end up with a minority flooding the pipes with no way to charge based on their priorities or needs, and thus higher prices.

      The companies engage in these so called 'non neutral' activities purely to get better prices and service for their customers. The things they implemented need to be determined by the number of peoeple who come and go, not by why some politicians force upon everyone. Making the net like the public road system is the whole point of why the FCC needs to throw out net neutrality. It makes every packet get conguested reguardless of the needs of the individiauls or how much wealth they want to put into promoting the message.

    6. Re:I sent this to each of the Commissioners: by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Sorry. They are whores, allright, but they already suck much bigger and richer dick.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:I sent this to each of the Commissioners: by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

      I live in Oklahoma...maybe you've heard the term "Sooners"...it should be called "Cheaters", as it's the name of the people who went out early, staked good claims, then miraculously "found them" first...the ironic part is these Sooners where mostly law enforcement, rail road people, etc...people who abused their position and cheated to get the best land. Sound familiar?

      I just love that we have so adopted the term, chanting it at games and having it on official documents at times...especially marketing stuff. "We're a state full of line jumpers and cheats! If you are too, you'll fit right in!"

    8. Re:I sent this to each of the Commissioners: by unitron · · Score: 1

      "During the Oklahoma Land Run of 1889, there were no special "carve-outs" for people of wealth. Every participant started racing at the sound of the starter's gun. "

      You do know how Oklahoma got nicknamed "The Sooner State", right?

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    9. Re:I sent this to each of the Commissioners: by CAOgdin · · Score: 1

      The rules were the safe for all at the time. That there were claim-jumpers and other cheats does not change the government's role in trying to create a level playing field. I would liken the cheaters to today's 1% (One of whom recent was quoted as saying, "It is not enough I can fly First Class, but all the rest should be in Coach").

    10. Re:I sent this to each of the Commissioners: by whit3 · · Score: 1

      Bravo!

      There are historic instances of telecommunications NON-neutrality to consider, too.
      I favor internet neutrality.

      Ben Franklin, as a printer in the colonies, knew the danger of selection in telecommunication;
      his competitor (Bradford) in Philadelphia was also the local postmaster.
      Bradford's publications were sent by post, but as for Ben's printed work

      " what I did send was by bribing the riders, who took them privately,
      Bradford being unkind enough to forbid it"

      Our constitution was written to make telecommunication a priority of the new federal government,
      "to establish post offices and post roads", and our first postmaster-general, Ben Franklin,
      saw to it that postal regulations forbade favoritism. He wanted the carriers to remain
      neutral. It worked well.

      At the dawn of telephonic communication, a similar circumstance came up: an undertaker
      thought his business suffered because a telephone operator was related to a competitor.
      Mr. Strowger invented a gizmo, the Strowger Switch, that allowed a caller to connect
      without talking to an operator (and dial phones worked on this principle for years).
      Again, the solution to Mr. Strowger's problem was to keep telecommunications
      neutral; we have all enjoyed the benefits for so long, that it seems quaint that
      this ever WAS a problem.

      So, at least twice before in history we have seen preference in telecommunications,
      executed by carriers who had mixed motives (usually related to a profit scheme)
      which caused anguish to the people of this country. Any worthy Federal Communications
      Commission should exert itself to ensure that the customary fairness of
      messaging is maintained into the foreseeable future. I will be watching.

  16. Not actually true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You just didn't shop around. Don't assume that your current provider is the only one that can offer you new plans.

  17. Bait and Switch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The summary suggests that there is a way to save the internet by killing it. Ok, cool. So how does killing the internet save anything? Let's read the article. Oh, wait. The article is just a rant against the fcc's lame policy. It doesn't explain a damn thing about any sneaky plan to save through killing.

    Goddamn trolls.

    1. Re:Bait and Switch by unixisc · · Score: 1

      I thought that saving the internet by killing it was deprecating IPv4 and forcing the world to adapt IPv6

  18. What did you all think would happen? by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Here's a surprise - you all clamor for the government to control the Internet.

    Once they do, the heavily corporate-entwined government does what comes naturally - act in the interest of some very large campaign contributors. They can do this because they have power over ISP's now.

    If it wasn't this, it would have been something else. The speed of it surprises, me, but only a little.

    Before both sides (ISP and providers) just worked things out. Now the FCC has decreed ISP's must be paid... this is what happens when you replace freedom with regulation.

    The only way out of this is to REDUCE the control the FCC has over the internet. Yet you are all clamoring for more of the same. So why on earth would I sign a petition asking for another whipping down the line?

    End the FCC's involvement with the internet, now there's a proposal I can get behind. Not popular though, so I've given up caring altogether and will just enjoy the schadenfreude of you all getting what you asked for.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:What did you all think would happen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never clamored for the government to control the internet. There won't be any going back with this internet.

    2. Re:What did you all think would happen? by ClioCJS · · Score: 1

      Circular, assholey logic. Someone who cares more please, refute him.

      --
      -Clio
      Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
      Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
  19. So Glad by SuperKendall · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Well we're all so glad millions of people could lose insurance and tens of millions more will pay more, so that your insurance situation is a little better!

    We live to serve. You that is.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:So Glad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A "little better"? Are you insane? Insurance versus none? And good news: your statistics are false or misleading.

    2. Re:So Glad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's kinda funny, even among my most bootstrapped libertarian friends, even they begrudgingly agree that their health insurance is much cheaper than it was. In fact I have yet to actually meet anyone who has lost their healthcare or had it priced higher. Everytime you hear that it's happening, just ask "Who?" You will never get an answer.

  20. What we need is more of what ails us! by SuperKendall · · Score: 0

    we need to reclassify Internet providers as common carriers.

    What we need to fix this regulation is - MORE REGULATION!

    Regulation is just like violence, if you haven't solved the problem it means you are not using enough of it (see: XML).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:What we need is more of what ails us! by dislikes_corruption · · Score: 1

      What we need to fix this lack of regulation is - PROPER REGULATION!

      There, I fixed it. It's easy to see where ISP regulation went wrong in this country, the first point was in 2002 when providers were deregulated and, with nothing forcing them to sell wholesale, all the competition went away and the country was divided up into local monopolies. The second point was in 2005 when the FCC went the bullshit "third option" route, instead of just classifying ISPs as what they are: common carriers.

      In other words, it's lack of regulation that has caused this problem and it's deregulation that keeps us from finding a market solution to the problem. You can't vote with your wallet when there's no where else to turn.

    2. Re:What we need is more of what ails us! by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Insightful

      PROPER REGULATION!

      Oh I see, Proper Regulation is just like communism - it's just never been done right before!

      Never mind the FACT that you cannot have Proper Regulation, because anytime you centralize enough power to write said Regulation it will naturally become subverted, because Power has that effect - always.

      Just like people are calling for more regulation now and what they will get is anguish until they figure out the root cause of the pain was in fact regulation...

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    3. Re:What we need is more of what ails us! by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      Never mind the FACT that you cannot have Proper Regulation, because anytime you centralize enough power to write said Regulation it will naturally become subverted, because Power has that effect - always.

      That's a ridiculous thing to say.

      Our situation is transparently a cultural problem, not a problem with centralized power.
      The culture in Washington doesn't see fit to aggressively fix the glaring problems with our regulators.
      It's not like this is magic, there are books written on the subject and anyone who cares to learn the solutions, can.

      It's patently obvious that when you have former lobbyists being elected head of a regulatory agency
      and the former head of the regulatory agency taking over the job of chief industry lobbyist,
      you're going to get regulatory outcomes that do a shit job of balancing industry and consumer needs.

      Nobody could reasonably look at the situation and think "Ah yes, this is what will bring us Proper Regulation."
      Not even an anti-regulatory ideologue like you.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    4. Re:What we need is more of what ails us! by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      Our situation is transparently a cultural problem

      Exactly, which is why Regulation cannot work ever on a large scale. When the people writing the regulation are far enough away from those affected by it, the Regulation will be subverted - ALWAYS.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    5. Re:What we need is more of what ails us! by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

      Oh I see, Proper Regulation is just like communism - it's just never been done right before!

      And gravity doesn't work -- because I waved my hands in the air and said so.

      I'm holding back a huge list of regulations that do work. But keep praying that planes don't fly into each other, people stop at stop lights, and drinking water that doesn't have amoebas in it. The idea that you could get karma to be marked insightful, is more of a testament that Slashdot has lowered the bar.

      The FCC is being driven by corporations now -- and most regulation these days is created by corporations for corporations. Who likes Sarbanes-Oxley? Big financial institutions who can produce mounds of paperwork nobody can read that solves nothing so that small companies cannot do financial services.

      So you can say there is good and bad legislation, based on who pushed it forward -- but to say "regulations cannot be good" is like saying Hammers are all bad because you just gave them to psychotics in the super max prison.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    6. Re:What we need is more of what ails us! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm tempted to even call it a problem with personality disorders. Our culture has given a lot of power to a select few who are downright sick and need help and have no business manipulating the entire world's economy and political structure.

  21. Here is something suitable by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Want to get behind a simple message that everyone can rally behind?

    GET THE FCC (and government) OFF OUR INTERNET.

    Any other message is inherently incomprehensible to everyone that matters.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Here is something suitable by dislikes_corruption · · Score: 1

      This is exactly what Comcast wants to hear. "Can't you just back off and let us abuse our monopoly in peace? Where's all this laissez-faire business that we were promised?"

      YOU'RE NOT HELPING. Maybe the GP is right, maybe we need to a simpler explanation for some people, sum it up in a couple sentences, but what you're suggesting is the death of the open internet.

    2. Re:Here is something suitable by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      I don't understand why you want Comcast, rather than the market, to have a veto over my entrepreneurship.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    3. Re:Here is something suitable by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

      This is exactly what Comcast wants to hear

      So is "Hey can we have the federal government please control the internet so Comcast doesn't have to deal with a bunch of local yahoos"?

      In fact we ALSO need local regulations creating the cable monopoly situation that keeps Comcast entrenched everywhere to vanish also.

      Your name, BTW, is just DRIPPING with irony in this situation as you apparently really, really love corruption as you are the biggest enabler of it I've ever come across.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    4. Re:Here is something suitable by dryeo · · Score: 1

      We really need to get the government from regulating at all. Do you know that they actually regulate killing? Think about it, government butting in when honest businesses want to kill off their competition. If we get rid of all government regulation we can have the ultimate free enterprise state much like the Congo Free State. If those pesky workers aren't meeting their quotas, well chop off their hands, and no wimping out with cauterizing their wounds either as free enterprise is the best and those people could have had a different company killing them if they chose.
      For free enterprise being unregulated see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  22. Do the Obamites still believe in online petitions? by swb · · Score: 0

    My sense is that all the online petitions that really meant anything basically got the same reply -- "Uh, no."

    Why bother even linking to them and perpetuating the fantasy they represent anything meaningful to the Obama administration?

  23. FCC Plans to control URL speed, via payments ... by danknight48 · · Score: 1

    ........... In America.

    Would love to vote/petition, but, seems the US wont accept the UK's input on this matter. lol :)

  24. The Big Mo. by westlake · · Score: 1

    Half of prime time Internet traffic in the states was a Netflix stream before Netflix offered a streaming only service. Expectations evolve. Closed captioning. Multilingual dialog. High definition. 4K video. Theater sound. Original production. Live broadcast.

    Internet radio is evolving as well

    To the point where the WiFi radio can found at Walmart.

    The target audience for these services are likely to be perfectly comfortable paying a little more each month to access the fast lane.

    They may not even recognize the device they are using to access streaming media as a computer.

    It's simply their phone, tablet. HDTV, e-book reader. radio or home theater audio system. They aren't thinking in terms of the Internet and the loss of "net neutrality" becomes an increasingly distant abstraction, hard to explain, and not easy to demonstrate how it will impact them personally.

    1. Re:The Big Mo. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words, people are utterly clueless and their cluelessness is going to destroy things they know nothing about, but rely on anyway. Then they'll blame tech people for it like they always do.

  25. Re:Do the Obamites still believe in online petitio by Andrio · · Score: 1

    The petitions may not have any direct impact, however, they can help raise awareness, even if it's only a little bit. It's still better than nothing.

    Public awareness is the only hope net neutrality has. Lobbying from companies like Netflix and Google can't turn the tide. Lobbying is more about money, it's about connections too, and most of the telecoms have connections that stem back before Netflix and Google even existed.

    --
    The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
  26. You sir, are correct, but you are completely and u by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The government *already* controls the internet because it has granted monopoly access to ISPs in the majority of areas.

    This area *does* need regulation, as do the providers of food and water.

    The regulation needs to be simple. Net neutrality could have been that, but it has been rescinded.

  27. the GOP is largely to blame. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They've relentlessly triehttp://www.ala.org/advocacy/telecom/netneutrality/legislativeactivity

    1. Re:the GOP is largely to blame. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They've relentlessly tried to kill net neutrality. spare me the 'Both Sides Are The Same' BS http://www.ala.org/advocacy/telecom/netneutrality/legislativeactivity

  28. "Congressmen"? Really? by tgeller · · Score: 1

    Congresspeople, many of whom are not men. Get with the 20th century, submitter.

    --
    Tom Geller
    1. Re:"Congressmen"? Really? by pspahn · · Score: 2

      I am woperson, hear me roar!

      --
      Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
    2. Re:"Congressmen"? Really? by dislikes_corruption · · Score: 1

      I considered calling them "congress critters," as something neutral, but figured that congressmen was less belligerent, being the standard term.

  29. ReBranding the issue: SlowNet for the 99% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "SlowNet for the 99%", "Slow Internet for the Poor", ...or something.

    I'm always reminded how "Death Tax" got votes when it meant "don't tax the rich". What is the equivalent for net neutrality?

    The loss of Net Neutrality probably means less bandwidth for the poor, more or less. So the issue needs
    a four-syllable sound bite that captures the second-class place we will all live in.

  30. SOPA-level response? by RyoShin · · Score: 1

    What is the possibility for another SOPA-level response? Some internet companies, like Facebook, might like this because they will happily pay for any chance to trounce fledgling competitors, but certainly other bastions of the Internet like Wikipedia would be quite hurt by it.

    I doubt any senator (of either party) really gives a flying fuck, and would in fact support this change because their buddies^W^W^W^Wlobbyists^W^W^W^W^Wconstituents told them they should, so only a public outcry of such proportions would do anything to reverse it.

    But be wary of their intervention: If they intervened they would put the kibosh on a "speed lane", but at the same time they would probably add a shitload of other things that benefits the NSA and/or "constituents". And funding for a few statues and other non-related issues for shits and giggles.

  31. internet exponentially more useful than fcc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so which should be let go of? no choices allowed there either. vote with (what's left in) our wallets... happens all the time change of mismanagemenr as we remain our own worst enemies

  32. Open Doesn't Mean What You Think It Means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > the FCC has opened a new inbox (openinternet@fcc.gov)

    Removing net-neutrality is consistent with "open internet" and "open government," Removing barriers so corporations can perform roles that might otherwise be subject to government regulation. It's yet another piece of doublespeak invented by O'Reilly media.

    It's clear whose side the FCC is on already. Here's a relevant article: http://thebaffler.com/past/the_meme_hustler

  33. Article is "easy to understand?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First off, for people posting and reading here - fine, the article is indeed easy to understand. A bit rambling, but not bad. OK, a lot rambling. But still not too bad. However, the summary suggests it is easy to understand for parents, spouses, etc. Wrong! It starts with the second word of the article. FCC. No definition. No description. "The FCC wants to make good on President...".

    How hard is it to write, "The FCC - the Federal Communications Commission, which is the governmental entity entrusted with regulating interstate and international communications via radio, television, wire, satellite, etc. - wants to make good on President..."

    It jumps into ISPs with no introduction. Does my mom or wife know what an ISP is? Heck no. Would it have killed him to say, "...Internet Service Providers (ISPs) - those entities such as Comcast, AT&T, etc. that provide internet access to homes and businesses - blah blah blah". Not hard. If you want to write an article that is easy to understand for the audience you need to reach then make it easy to understand. Don't hide it in tech jargon - even when that jargon is understood by tech folks like those of us here, the regular folks will stop reading when they get a couple of terms they don't recognize and they will just write it off as gobbledygook...

  34. Don't forget this petition, its alot further along by sasparillascott · · Score: 2

    After signing that first one be sure and sign this one - its alot further along:

    https://petitions.whitehouse.g...

  35. Idiots by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    If they do their damned job this wont be an issue. If they think 'letting it burn' is a good plan, the entire lot of them should be fired.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  36. Because Propaganda, that's why. by bmo · · Score: 0

    a public that isn't particularly well versed on the issue or why they should care.

    Because they have the likes of Fox, Murdoch "news" - everything from the Sun to the WSJ, TW, Rush Limbaugh and the rest telling them lies about it, shouting SOCIALISM#$!#@$!@#

    That's why.

    --
    BMO

    1. Re:Because Propaganda, that's why. by bmo · · Score: 1

      >Modded offtopic

      I guess the endless editorials against net-neutrality by the WSJ are all off-topic?

      --
      BMO

  37. Conspiracy or capitulation? by RatherBeAnonymous · · Score: 1

    "Conspiracy" implies that the FCC has some active input.

  38. Allow me to explain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those pesky Republicans (mostly) believe in [1] the marketplace and [2] private property. This means they believe that the best way to optimize a resource is to leave it to free people and competition, and that they think the people who pay for, design, and build a thing are the ones who get to own, use, and control it. The natural result of this is that they believe that the telcos who build and own their networks have every right to determine what is done with those networks, AND that if aomebody else comes up with the money and a better plan, he should be able to enter the market and compete (even eliminating any "bad players" by grabbing all their customers.

    Amazingly, this carzy "free market" idea seems to work quite well for lots of stuff. It's worked great for dentistry, Lasik eye surgery, consumer electronics, griceries, fast food, etc. The alternative of big government in bed with big business providing "fairness" and "universal access" isn't always so pretty - just ask any doctor about medicare (where govt keeps promising seniors more care, but pays the docs less and less for it and EVERYBODY in D.C. knows it is going to collapse), or look at the trend-lines on price-per-unit-of-product and reliability for energy from the water systems, power grid, etc (all those highly-regulated government-supervised monopolies)

    Be careful what you wish for - if you ever get the "net neutrality" you dream of, you may find that government and the net giants at the time the policy kicks-in lock-in a relationship and rules that see no new competitors ever enter the market and a permanent cap on network performance ...... When's the last time any significant new airline started in the U.S.? Don't include re-branding, subdivisions spinning-off, mergers getting new names, foreign carriers starting US divisions, etc, just totally new startup airlines - think about it. Same question for telcoms providing landline service; when's the last time you heard of a new on starting up from scratch (that was never a "baby bell" etc)

    The internet got to be what it is today WITHOUT a so-called "net neutrality" law. The internet we have today is as much "wild west" as it is precisely because it is as free or government oversight and regulation as it is.... and that very freedom allowed Facebook, Amazon, Google, Yahoo, Twitter, Slashdot, etc to be created and to thrive, and THAT sort of dynamic creation (and, yes, destruction) never happens in highly regulated ecosystems

    1. Re:Allow me to explain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Net Neutrality at its very core would be regulation to keep the system as it has been. It is a law to change nothing, just to prevent future action limiting growth. People already pay more for better service to their ISP. Content providers already pay for their connection. The lack of a network neutrality regulation would allow for the creation of blocks of the internet that would only work well with certain ISPs, the ones that get paid twice by the content providers. The traffic cost and the cost of not having worse service than others.

      Republicans have not been about what they line their political party to be for years, decades, nearly a century I'd say. A proper republican would ask for a common carrier status for ISPs or some other system to allow the growth of competition in areas so there isn't a monopoly for ISP service. A proper republican would not allow / fund any thing that invaded a persons personal life. A proper republican would focus on bettering their voter's lives. The same can be said about the other side of the aisle. A proper republican would also hold the telecommunication companies liable for their lack of fulfillment of tax credits for national service. A fiscally responsible member of congress would lower the cost of health care on the system by reducing cost of health care services, cut military spending, or even forbid earmarks on legislation forcing groups that want to add them prove they are related to the bill.

      There is a lot of rightfully owned disdain towards all parties involved in this situation. If I held any belief that a political party was in the best interest of the nation, even if it hurt a bit (like raising taxes), I'd vote for them. I could rant all night, as I'm sure most people here can. For a better satire, don't change tones mid paragraph.

  39. Re:Yes they do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > You are REALLY going to see the screws put in over the next decade in most of Europe (probably not Germany).

    Been hearing that for the past four decades, myself. Still nada. In fact, even with the recent austerity measures, my health coverage and access to higher education well into the last quarter of my career is so much better than my US colleagues I can understand why you neocon nimrods are so desperate to try to discredit the European model.

    You're wrong. You've been wrong for 40 years. You'll continue to be wrong. You won't accept this because you are more obsessed with your religious adherence to an economic model instead of looking at the actual data.

  40. Re:Do the Obamites still believe in online petitio by fightinfilipino · · Score: 1

    "Obamites"? really?

    the petitions help in that the Administration necessarily responds to any petition that reaches the the threshhold. that means that they are forced to go on the record with a response that alone is enough to stir action out of inaction. even if the current Administration does not agree with the goal of a petition, the American people will know that position rather than having it swept under a rug, and can vote accordingly.

  41. TL;DR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh yes, my neophyte parent will certainly understand "TL;DR". sigh.

  42. Conflict of interest? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So a guy (who runs a company that makes money by shovelling ads into all our web pages - consuming time and bandwidth from people all over the planet) writes an article blaming the big bad evil Republicans for not letting the FCC force the telcos to let him and his business go on using resources he does not own at bargain-basement rates. yup. got it. Sorry, I just cannot get sympathetic.

    I'm a real conservative (not a TV talking-head conservative), so I do not trust EITHER big government, OR big business (they are both instances of a bad idea: too much power in the hands of too few imperfect human beings). If Verizon or AT&T pay to wire-up a network, then it's theirs and they get to decide how to run it and how to bill people to use it. Period. Will they do "bad" things with it? Oh, probably - I'd certainly not be surprised. Will adding-in big government help? Oh, probably in the short-term because that's how government ALWAYS does it (move into an area of human endeavor to "help" people, and look to be doing just that, for a while). But over time the government intervention becomes corrosive and then congeals into a sludge that halts progress and squashes innovation. Eventually you have political trolls in Washington manipulating the rules and regulations in exchange for "campign contributions" (aka "bribes") and the biggest vendors handing over that cash in exchange for regulations that squish any would-be competitor before it can get off the ground.

    What's needed is NOT the one-size-fits-all iron-fist of big central government, but rather the scrappy cage-match between aggressive competitors within well-defined bounds. Rather than federal rules that must (and never will) work equally-well in Hawaii, Alaska, Silicon Vally, NYC, and Mobile ALA, we simply need the marketplace to be as free and open as possible in every area. We need to work at the local level to get communities to encourage other carriers to enter. Look into the roadblocks your local governments have put in place to block new telcos, cable companies, etc from getting "right-of-way" and permits to give you and your fellow citizens REAL choices (hint: in most cities in the US, the local government has made a dirty deal with one cable TV company and one phone company). What we have right now is NOT a failing "free market" but rather a market with a wide level of government manipulation already in place making a mess. Communities COULD set a goal of having at least two providers running fiber to every home and then set policies to encourage this. NOTHING (well, except money and imagination) actually prevents the people of a town from owning their own optical fiber network infrastructure and leasing portions of the bandwidth to multiple providers, and THAT might be an alternative. The federal government does not have to regulate our access to pizzas or regulate the price of cheeseburgers because nearly every community has multiple vendors of each, and those vendors MUST compete with eachother on price and quality. Before we demand federal pizza access laws (or net neutrality laws), we SHOULD all be looking locally to see that our communities are actually free markets and not already government-regulated clogged arteries.

  43. Let the Cable and Phone Companies Have Their Way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right now, the U.S. cable and phone companies are doing a pretty crappy job delivering "high-speed" Internet access to their customers. However, it's not so bad that people want to cancel their service. People tolerate it in its present form, and it's never going to get better as long as that's the case.

    By letting Comcast do what it wants, I'm confident it'll eventually alienate its customers so much that they'll start leaving in droves. Once Comcast's bottom line is harmed, maybe it'll see the light. If not, good riddance, Comcast; maybe someone better will replace you.

  44. This is a New Petition by Bob9113 · · Score: 1

    Please note that this is a new petition, specifically stating The People's requirement that data carriers be reclassified as common carriers. Yesterday's petition only identified the need for net neutrality. I believe both are valid expressions of the best interests of our society, and have signed both.

  45. You are all fools by 7-Vodka · · Score: 1

    I've said it from the start and I'll repeat it now:

    The FCC's interest in "net neutrality"(1) was never about what you wanted, it was *always* about gaining control of the internet. When you have the power of regulation over something, you have all the power in the world at the barrel of a gun.
    By trying to support their efforts, every single one of you was dooming the internet.

    The USG frequently tries to fear monger online, always accusing others of militarizing the internet, when in fact they are the ones doing it. They started monitoring your phone calls in the early nineties, but of course it must have been because of 911. Go back to sleep you retarded fucks.

    It's my fucking tragedy to live on a planet, in this meat suit that is all about tribes and sharing experiences with other meat suits, with a bunch of asshole Elois like you all. Worst of it, probably if you are capable of comprehending what I've just said you are the best of the best here. I live in an impressionist's landscape utopia, surrounded and crowded by the people of walmart.

    Maybe some day I'll live in a community where people care about Freedom, Liberty, truth and exploring the universe (with science). We could have been traveling the stars, meeting others and re-inventing ourselves by now. Instead we squander and hold ourselves back with our archaic infighting to protect the power and privileged few.

    1. Net neutrality has never been a problem. The internet is about freedom, this includes the freedom to make contracts with other parties that benefits both sides and the freedom to not make contracts that don't benefit you. The only problem is that it's not easy to dump comcast when it's your only option in some shit town. Fix that instead. Get the USG out of the internet regulation business. You're all victims of problem, reaction, solution.

    The USG needs to be cut to about 1/1000th of it's current size. I believe something happen soon because the monetary system is unsustainable.

    --

    Liberty.

    1. Re:You are all fools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe some day I'll live in a community where people care about Freedom, Liberty, truth and exploring the universe (with science). We could have been traveling the stars, meeting others and re-inventing ourselves by now. Instead we squander and hold ourselves back with our archaic infighting to protect the power and privileged few.

      Given Freedom and Liberty, mankind has repeatedly demonstrated that he vastly prefers to enslave his fellow man that to visit strange and dangerous territories. If you imagine that freedom from oversight is the path to your egalitarian, Star-Trek utopia, then you need to read more history. We aren't fighting to preserve the power of the few, we're fighting to keep them from running roughshod over the rest of us, primarily by limiting their freedom to beat people up with their money.

    2. Re:You are all fools by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      All I can say is, I agree with you 1000%. What a shame so many otherwise intelligent people cannot see something so obvious... And expect different results when trying the same thing repeatedly.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  46. Re:Yes they do by Cordus+Mortain · · Score: 1, Insightful

    It's not even just a European model. Canada has had universal healthcare in some provinces as long as England has. You'd think that the US look just over the border and see how it's working for Canada, and realize it's not as bad as they think it is.

  47. Re:Don't forget this petition, its alot further al by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously -- why the hell did the submitter create a brand new one, when there is an existing petition that is already halfway filled?

    GJ, Slashdot -- link to the petition with 1,000 out of 100,000 signatures, instead of the one with 25,000 signatures already in two days.

  48. Re:You sir, are correct, but you are completely an by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    The government *already* controls the internet because it has granted monopoly access to ISPs in the majority of areas.

    And you liked the monopoly so much you thought, hey lets see what happens if I give the ISP's even more government backed power!

    Awesome.

    This area *does* need regulation, as do the providers of food and water.

    And already we are seeing the government step in and say small farms cannot sell raw milk, even to people who know how to deal with it.

    Some regulation may be useful be have long passed that point. At this point calling for more regulation ALWAYS is doing more harm than good.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  49. fuck all the politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What we need is a techworkers strike!

  50. Re:Yes they do by meburke · · Score: 1

    Again, the issue is not a matter of Black or White.

    My relatives in Canada are constantly commenting on the delays and inefficincies of the heal care system. I have a some relatives who came down to the USA for bypass operations and transplants because they could get treated in a week or two instead of 6 months or more.

    My relatives in Sweden have similar complaints.

    My 96-year-old Mother might not be alive if she had to depend on Canada's National Health Service. At 92 she had a mitral valve replacement. In Canada, because of her age, she would have been put on a low priority. At 96 she drives herself everywhere, does her own shopping, goes to Writer's group, and has a pretty good life. She thinks that's better than being forced to die from lack of oxygen and energy over a period of a year or two.

    The issue is not insurance. The issue is health care distribution for the most people, at the highest quality possible. For the last 30 years the USA has been the "Gold Standard" for health care. In just one year Obamacare has tarnished the standard, and, based on the experience in Sweden, UK, and Canada, it doesn't look like it will ever regain its luster.

    There are a couple of moral questions that bother me: 1. Is it moral to steal from others (in the form of taxes) for your own benefit? And 2. Who has the right to make decisions on your health care?

    Of course, even in the most Socialist countries the bureaucrats are going to be cared for even if the common populace is given short shrift.

    --
    "The mind works quicker than you think!"
  51. Re:Do the Obamites still believe in online petitio by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 1

    maybe we should print out the petition, wrap it around a brick, and throw it through our rep's front windows. Hard to ignore that, and you only need 1 person per state. I'll bet within 24 hours it would be all over the news world-wide...

  52. Re:Don't forget this petition, its alot further al by dislikes_corruption · · Score: 1

    If that's a real question: I created this petition because I thought one was needed. I have since seen the other and signed it, but frankly, and I realize I'm biased here, I think mine is better. The other petition lacks specificity - all it's asking for is "true neutrality," which the FCC and the ISPs can (and have) defined to mean whatever they want. There's also some weird language about an invading military... I don't know what that guy was thinking there.

    There's no reason you can't sign both though, and you should. Here's another one that another poster in this thread mentioned:

    https://petitions.whitehouse.g...

  53. the public understands just fine by pieterbos · · Score: 1

    there's a proven, simple way to let the public understand this: let all the telecom operators announce that from now on, you get only a basic internet connection. No skype, facebook, spotify or netflix.

    Oh, you want those services? well, facebook is 5 euro, spotify 3, netflix 10. Oh, skype. hmm, thats annoying competition. 15 euro.

    Here all major mobile telecom providers announced plans like this roughly the same time for their cellphone plans.

    We had a law guaranteeing net neutrality in weeks.

  54. More spendings by jupiter126 · · Score: 1

    Net neutrality can be approached with two purposes:
    - Be neutral about what is allowed on internet (Block specific content)
    - Be neutral about who is allowed on internet (Block specific sites)
    Content distributors are interested in blocking specific content (MCAA, RIAA, ...), infrastructure providers are interested in blocking specific sites (netflix, ...): it is a battle for money.

    Human nature dictates us to be creative to reach our objectives.
    These laws will thus only accelerate the birth and growth of new networks, which their creators might surprisingly base on the shortcomings of what they miss in the existing one.
    As users will be motivated to search for alternatives, demand will be raising, and while TOR is only a "first generation" secure network and its use remains marginal, these laws will help these kind of networks to go mainstream.
    They will then try to block these networks, triggering further evolution, back to the chicken and the egg.

    On the meantime, illegal organisations will benefit from those new mainstream technologies, and our dear agencies might need to gear up a bit ^^
    Now for the funding: Taxes.

    And this is how you lost the war for money, even if you did not buy their content or bypass their architecture \o/

  55. Less Open now than 20 years ago by giltwist · · Score: 1

    When the Internet first became popular, I had to connect to it over a phone line which meant my data was protected by common carrier laws. Why should I be less protected now that I connect to it over cable wires rather that telephone wires?

  56. Re:Yes they do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your cookie cutter bootlick response fails to account for the millions of people in the US that simply "didn't" have healthcare, and would get treated in the ER, thereby pushing your poor mother out of line for her medical problems.

    The US has never been the Gold Standard for healthcare. I'm starting to realize where you get your misinformation from. The US has some of the worst healthcare in the modern world, a very quick Google search will provide more data to back that up than you could ever find to support your Fox News talking point.

    To your moral question, I pose another moral question: Is it moral to steal from others (in the form of legally required rent-seeking services) for their own benefit? If you answer yes, than the answer to your question is also a yes. And you will answer yes, because you have been programmed to do so in the name of free market capitalism.

  57. I Understand Why by CAOgdin · · Score: 1

    You Would Post as AC.

  58. Mod 7-Vodka UP... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I agree w/ you, 110% (albeit, reluctantly): I say, reluctantly, since I don't WANT things to be "how they are" (& really always HAVE been, ala "The 'Golden Rule' is he who has the gold, makes the rules..." type crap - yet the sad truth, is that everyone has a price/threshold of pain or acceptance... & given the old choice of "take the gold, or take the lead"? Folks will do the former, every single time (since the alternative is bad)).

    Scares me - the last part you noted, in monetary system collapse... why? Well, riots & looting (plus worse) will probably result... the hardest time to survive such a thing will be in the 1st half year or so imo @ least.

    APK

    P.S.=> As to what's going on with the FCC wanting to let the rich get richer (by allowing them preferences in speed or delivery vs less powerful/wealthy competitors), is it only shows what goes on in government itself... I mean, please: Give me a break! "Lobbying" (wtf?) is a 'smooth-it-over' controlling speech term used to 'desensitize' you into thinking "Oh, it's ok & normal" when it's ANYTHING BUT THAT, & in fact, is criminal, since lobbying = BRIBERY (the tool of the scumbag of "when you can't beat 'em? Buy out the judges & win no matter what" b.s.)...

    ... apk

  59. Poor grammar in petition by davesque · · Score: 1

    Who created that petition? They should correct the grammar error in the first sentence. A comma is used where a period and new sentence would obviously have been a better choice. Of course, that's probably impossible at this point. For god's sake, why don't people proofread these things??

  60. FWIW, here is what Sen. Orrin Hatch says about it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank you for writing me and sharing your comments about net neutrality. Your comments are important to me as I continue to work on this issue, and I appreciate the opportunity to explain why I generally oppose the FCC’s net neutrality rules.

    In my view, the courts have been correct in repeatedly striking down FCC attempts to advance its net neutrality agenda. Yet the FCC continues to overstep its statutory authority by seeking alternative legal justifications to impose the same burdensome regulations. I agree with Judge Silberman’s opinion striking down the FCC’s latest net neutrality rules warning that these continued attempts to broadly interpret the FCC’s authority under Section 706 of the Communications Act will “virtually free the Commission from its congressional tether.” This "tether" is part of the important Congressional oversight that is essential to constitutional separation of powers.

    Net neutrality may sound like fairness but it is actually the opposite. Bandwidth is finite—like the finite number of lanes on a highway—and network providers must innovate in order to accommodate the burgeoning traffic. As they invest billions of private dollars in new and improved networks, they should rightly expect to set prices and manage those networks as they see fit. Despite network providers’ investment in building a state-of-the-art broadband network from scratch, content providers can create profits for themselves by using this network toll-free while at the same time creating bottlenecks that that the network providers have to fix with costly infrastructure upgrades and improvements.

    Limiting the ability of the FCC to regulate the Internet is actually good for the future prosperity of the Internet because it incentivizes network providers to make these upgrades and improvements. The Internet’s tremendous growth has been made possible not through increased government involvement, but from opening the Internet to commerce and innovation. Rather than adding additional regulation, we should incentivize development of additional capacity, thus benefitting consumers and our economy.

    Thank you, again, for contacting me with your comments. If you would like to have regular updates on my work in the U.S. Senate, I encourage you to subscribe to my E-newsletter, visit my Facebook page, and follow me on Twitter.

    Your Senator,
    Orrin G. Hatch
    United States Senator

  61. Re:Yes they do by pnutjam · · Score: 1

    Two questions, did she pay for this herself, or was it paid for by the Canadian healthcare system? Was her followup provided by the US doctors or the Canadian healthcare system?
    Do you think that she would have been able to afford it if she had been paying for all her other healthcare at US prices? Do you think there will not be any private practice if the US reforms it's system?

    OK, more then 2 questions.

  62. Death panels? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL, what are you 12? That rumor was disproven multiple times. It wasn't even death panels they were advisory panels suggested under Bush. The republicans just demonized them when the other party got into office.

  63. 3rd party payer problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I pay my ISP for a certain bandwith. They should provision for that. If I want to stream Netflix and it fits in my bandwidth window then what's the problem? Well, ISP consolidation has resulted in lying. They don't want to invest to provide the stated marketing bandwidth. So enter a 3rd party payer and we will get the same that has happened in health care and every other 3rd party payer segment. Expect your streaming bill to go up and up with not way to control it except going back to paper books for entertainment.

    1. Re:3rd party payer problem by harryjohnston · · Score: 1

      "I pay my ISP for a certain bandwith. They should provision for that." ... there aren't enough people willing to pay the amount this would cost to make such a business feasible. The internet works, and is more or less affordable, precisely because you share the backbone capacity with your neighbors.

  64. This Chip Can Tell If You've Been Poisoned. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, it really can't.

  65. Doubtful by harryjohnston · · Score: 1

    The critical assumption behind this article is that the ISPs "slow lane" - i.e., the general internet - will degrade to the point where it isn't usable.

    Now, the FCC claims to be planning regulation to prevent this, but it's unsurprising that people don't trust them.

    However: the "slow lane" is still going to be most of the internet. The question becomes, will enough of a typical ISPs customers use *only* those mainstream, big business web sites able to pay the ISP's bribes (and assuming that they are willing to do so) that it is feasible for the ISP to lose the rest?

    I find it doubtful, but if anyone has statistics it would be interesting ...

  66. Re:Yes they do by nobodie · · Score: 1

    Ditto up:
    My middle daughter went to a US public university and came out with $30,000 in tuition debt. My youngest is going to a Dutch university and pays 1250 Euro per semester tuition, receives a stipend to live on and pay rent and supplies, and her final cost per semester is under a thousand Euro since she lives cheap and she uses the extra money to pay down the tuition. After 4 years total cost: 8,000 Euros.

    Tell me that socialism is bad for the "people" when the Dutch have an increase of 13% in income for the middle class and we are shedding middle class jobs/people like a snake sheds its skin!

    --
    Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.