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High-School Star League Brings Gaming As Sport to Teenagers

Posted by timothy on from the buncha-jocks dept.

An anonymous reader points to this "This is an interesting interview with the creators of the High School Star League, an organization dedicated to furthering eSports as a viable hobby and even a career for children and young adults. The HSL has been active in the U.S. for a while but is now making a headway into Europe, where it's finding Counter-Strike is proving much more popular than RTS and MOBA games. There are a significant number of girls getting involved as well — as many as seven percent of competitors. It's a start, right?"

55 of 87 comments (clear)

  1. Kids need school to introduce them to hobbies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Teach them how to have fun? Or is this an effort to kill computer games by associating them with school?

    1. Re:Kids need school to introduce them to hobbies? by NotDrWho · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, it's designed to give them false hope of a career in professional gaming--to go along with their false hopes of careers as movie stars, rap/rock stars, fashion icons, and sports legends.

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    2. Re:Kids need school to introduce them to hobbies? by hendrips · · Score: 1

      It hasn't worked for football very well, has it?

  2. Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Oh, fantastic - yet another "sport" to distract the future generations of our planet from receiving an actual education.

    Maybe it's time we consider creating separate "athletic schools" for the kids who want to be sports-stars, so the rest of the population can focus on, you know, learning important shit.

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    1. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Video Games are not a "sport".

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    2. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by kruach+aum · · Score: 1

      That's right, some video games can be played as eSports.

    3. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by genner · · Score: 2

      Half the curriculum in High School is far from important anyway. At least this is useful to the small segment of the population that can make a living off it.

    4. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by excelsior_gr · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is how it is actually done in many european countries. All schools have sport in the curriculum, and although there are competitions between schools etc it is not taken at all seriously. If, however, an individual shows potential, he/she is being forwarded to a sports-school for continuing his studies. In this way, the athlete can also get more professional attention and focus on the sport. Everybody wins.

    5. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by Warhaven · · Score: 1

      Video Games are not a "sport".

      Josh: I'm much better at video hockey.

      Paul: That's not a sport.

      Josh: It requires hand and eye coordination.

      Paul: It's not a sport if you don't sweat.

      Josh: What about golf? It's a sport and you don't sweat.

      Paul: It's not a sport if you let a machine do all the work.

      Josh: What about car racing?

      Paul: Shut up, Baskin.

    6. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by Princeofcups · · Score: 1

      Oh, fantastic - yet another "sport" to distract the future generations of our planet from receiving an actual education.

      Maybe it's time we consider creating separate "athletic schools" for the kids who want to be sports-stars, so the rest of the population can focus on, you know, learning important shit.

      It's too late for that. Only a handful of top schools do not put athletics before all else. A good start would be to make all schools give any athletics profits to charity, instead of using it to fund a never ending cycle of high priced coaches and player kick backs.

      --
      The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
    7. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Half the curriculum in High School is far from important anyway. At least this is useful to the small segment of the population that can make a living off it.

      ... and useless, if not harmful, for the large segment of the population who thinks they can make a living at it, but in reality are merely wasting time. Time better spent learning real, useful life skills.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    8. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      While we're at it, lets get rid of English and Art classes as well. Or at least make them electives. The class they need to make required is some sort of home-finance class. The biggest problem with recent high-school grads is their complete lack of understanding when it comes to credit cards, loans, insurance and retirement. Hell, most of the adults I know are clueless in that regard. Then predatory companies like Chase jump on them with insane interest rates and insurance companies con them into multi-million dollar life insurance packages when their only 19 or 20.

    9. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      100% Agree. I've shipped numerous games and am completely disgusted at "eSports". Sitting on your ass all day gaming is not a "sport." Sports involving, you know, going gasp outside getting some physical activity.

      Students should be doing a balance of mental and physical activities: Mathematics, Philosophy, Science, Reading, Writing, Thinking, Music/Singing, Checkers/Chess/Go, Sports that involve physical activities -- even Martial Arts/Yoga; all with a focus on:

      * Inspiring people to pursue their passion
      * Critical Thinking

      not chasing after the latest dumb fad(s).

      Who are overpaid the most in society? Entertainers that no one will give a shit about in 50 years.
      Who are the most important people in society? Teachers that inspire thousands of students.
      What is the pay difference between entertainers and teachers? Why does pay tend to be proportionally to how useless you are to society??

      This is nothing new of course:

      A Mathematician's Lament
      * http://www.maa.org/sites/defau...

      And

      Underground History of American Education
      * http://www.johntaylorgatto.com...

    10. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      IMO, it's never too late to stop fucking up.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    11. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      While we're at it, lets get rid of English and Art classes as well.

      Judging from the majority of commentary I see these days, both online and in traditional media, we need English classes more now than ever. Art has already been shuffled to the wayside thanks to the ever-increasing funding "needs" of athletic programs.

      The class they need to make required is some sort of home-finance class. The biggest problem with recent high-school grads is their complete lack of understanding when it comes to credit cards, loans, insurance and retirement.

      Agreed, that's a major issue, and I find it both amazing and appalling that such a class hasn't been made mandatory yet - we were bitching about the lack of personal finance education over a decade ago, when I was still in high school.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    12. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by genner · · Score: 1

      Half the curriculum in High School is far from important anyway. At least this is useful to the small segment of the population that can make a living off it.

      ... and useless, if not harmful, for the large segment of the population who thinks they can make a living at it, but in reality are merely wasting time. Time better spent learning real, useful life skills.

      Useful life skills like memorizing Chaucer.

    13. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Half the curriculum in High School is far from important anyway. At least this is useful to the small segment of the population that can make a living off it.

      ... and useless, if not harmful, for the large segment of the population who thinks they can make a living at it, but in reality are merely wasting time. Time better spent learning real, useful life skills.

      Useful life skills like memorizing Chaucer.

      Your opinion of one thing you had to do in school that you didn't like nor found useful notwithstanding...

      I was thinking more along the lines of things like Grammar, Science, Civics, Mathematics, et al. My bad for assuming that I didn't need to spell that out to this particular crowd.

      I presumed we were collectively smarter than that, this being a "News for Nerds" site, and I apologize for overestimating the intelligence level of the group.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    14. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by sycodon · · Score: 1

      You have obviously never lugged a set of clubs up and down the hills of a golf course in 90 degree heat, nor been in a race car during a typical race.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    15. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by genner · · Score: 1

      Half the curriculum in High School is far from important anyway. At least this is useful to the small segment of the population that can make a living off it.

      ... and useless, if not harmful, for the large segment of the population who thinks they can make a living at it, but in reality are merely wasting time. Time better spent learning real, useful life skills.

      Useful life skills like memorizing Chaucer.

      Your opinion of one thing you had to do in school that you didn't like nor found useful notwithstanding...

      I was thinking more along the lines of things like Grammar, Science, Civics, Mathematics, et al. My bad for assuming that I didn't need to spell that out to this particular crowd.

      I presumed we were collectively smarter than that, this being a "News for Nerds" site, and I apologize for overestimating the intelligence level of the group.

      You missed my point. High School is full of useless topics. It's disingenuous to pretend time will be well spent if sports ceased to exist.

    16. Re:Ah, Just What Schools Were Missing! by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      In that case, yes, I did miss your point. Mea culpa.

      I agree that what's taught could use some serious rethinking and paring down; for instance, why is it considered more important to memorize the date that Lincoln gave the Gettysburg Address, than it is to understand the his reasoning for giving it? At least, that was my experience in school.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  3. Viable career? by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

    How viable as a career is "eSports" anyway?
    How many career competitive gamers are there in the US?
    Will you be able to earn enough money during your active career to last you your entire live?

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    1. Re:Viable career? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Even in South Korea, where career eSports is a huge deal

      As someone that has lived in South Korea on and off for over 10 years, esports aren't nearly as popular here as Western gamers make it seem. If we're being generous it's probably comparable to something like MMA in the US. They're shown on relatively unpopular television channels and you occasionally see a story about it online or in the newspaper. Video games are still heavily frowned upon and the vast majority of the population simply doesn't care about esports in any way.

    2. Re:Viable career? by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

      Is it particularly different from professional physical sports?

      A career in any sport is viable as long as there are people willing to pay for someone else to play. Physical sports have a clear lead here, as the fan base is much larger.

      Similarly, with so many fans, there's also a greater number of professional players. Percentage-wise, though, there's still only a very small number who make it to the big leagues.

      I used to work in a financial company, that had several professional athletes as clients. Most were facing retirement in their early 30's, with huge medical expenses expected later on. Several had second careers lined up before retiring from the sport itself, usually in some tangential field like sports commentary or coaching. After expenses and various kinds of insurance, many of those athletes were looking at modest retirements, having spent much of their high income on preserving what's left of their bodies.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    3. Re:Viable career? by Hussman32 · · Score: 1

      Depends if you limit yourself to the United States. During a business trip in Korea, I watched not one, but two channels of Starcraft competitions and those players were simply rock stars, and they made serious bank. If the gaming companies find viable ways to set up sponsored competitions, then sure, the best players could live comfortably, and as you would expect, the average players would get nothing.

      I bet with the right marketing there could there be more players than the 1600 professional football players. Maybe they could get Pete Townshend to write a song about it.

      I don't think it needs to be a life-long career, if they peak for three years and make seed money for college or something else, it's time well spent. Gaming isn't exactly productive, but in most cases it's not a big time loss, and millions of people spend equivalent time watching TV, knitting, or listening to music, all of which have almost zero potential marketability.

      Slightly off topic, regarding the violence of the games in the article, I remember a game where people were watching a guy writhe in pain with his arm broken in half. Wait a minute, that was my arm, when I was playing American football. And that doctor's bill was huge.

      --
      "Who are you?" "No one of consequence." "I must know." "Get used to disappointment."
    4. Re:Viable career? by PrimalChrome · · Score: 1

      I think it's a matter of perspective and what segment of society you're dealing with. If you're working in SK with suits or managment geeks....sure...it's not important and barely a blip on the radar. Kind of like Twitter or Vine in the US. That doesn't mean that there isn't a significant subset of the population that isn't sinking time, emotion, and money into it. Your comparison to MMA is spot on. 99% of the clients or vendors I deal with know nothing about it....it barely exists. 80% of the people I know socially can name their favorite male fighters and at least a couple of the up and coming female fighters. Totally different demographics. At work, it's largely corporate types that consider golf a sport. Socially, it's a broad mixture of middle class guys that are rabid about their favorite NFL, College Football, League of Legends, or MMA organization.

    5. Re:Viable career? by blackraven14250 · · Score: 1

      Viable as a career seriously depends on the individual. I'm coming at this from what I've seen in League of Legends, so you know the perspective. Just being a player is definitely worth it as a job considering there's a guaranteed salary and potential huge payouts for winning large tournaments, but not a career. Most pro players have something else lined up afterwords, and this was one stop along the way. I wouldn't fault someone for having it on their resume. Being on one of the top teams and making a living doing it is hard, and I don't doubt the work ethic of someone who was involved for any substantial period of time. Quite a few of the pro players who have retired have moved into other related jobs, like casting/analyzing or being a game developer for Riot or coaching/managing a team, which are definitely career-worthy on their own. Being a pro player gives you a massive edge in getting into those careers. Chances are you won't make enough as an active player (which is far shorter for pro gamers than pro athletes) to last your entire life, but honestly, given how short those careers are, it's not like they're lacking in other opportunities.

    6. Re:Viable career? by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      That's rather completely irrelevant. This program doesn't seem to replace physical education at all.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  4. Star League by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan armada.

  5. In America? by bazmail · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Pizza is considered a vegetable in the US so nothing surprises me any more from a country that measures food quality in calories per dollar.

    Who knows maybe on future the US Olympic organizers will petition for "Eating Cheet-ohs" to be admitted as an event.

  6. Re:What if I told you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    that the population in general* does not have the vehement hate for school that Slashdotters tend to have?

    the "population in general" thinks Kim Kardashian's antics are somehow important. and that being a professional athlete makes someone a great judge of what shoes you should buy or food you should eat. and thinks the government's explanation of what happened on 9/11 makes sense and has no serious flaws. probably because of those same schools.

    you need to find a better metric if you want to make a meaningful point.

  7. Dumb jock lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The ancient Greeks had the philosphy of mind, body, and spirit - like on the YMCA signs. Then in the 1930s the whole dumb jock thing started.

    Why?

    Racism.

    When the African-Americans were allowed to compete with whites, many did well and disturbed some people's idea that white people were superior. So, they (racist whites) made up the lie that really talented atletic people are stupid - as an attack on Black people.

    It's a shame that we don't have an education system that values Greek ideals.

    Not everyone can be a star athlete nor can everyone can be a star acedemic. But never the less, we all should be encouraged to develop ourselves and abilites to our personal best.

    1. Re:Dumb jock lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Funny, I learned of the 'dumb jock' meme from watching Revenge of the Nerds back in the 80s. Throughout my entire life, I have not seen the meme aimed at the abundantly melanin endowed populations, only the low melanin jocks.

      Or maybe it isn't so much about racism as a reaction to the actual dumb white jocks (and wannabes) who were bullies to everyone who didn't care so much about sports.

    2. Re:Dumb jock lie by ranton · · Score: 1

      The ancient Greeks had the philosphy of mind, body, and spirit - like on the YMCA signs. Then in the 1930s the whole dumb jock thing started.

      Why? Racism.

      When the African-Americans were allowed to compete with whites, many did well and disturbed some people's idea that white people were superior. So, they (racist whites) made up the lie that really talented atletic people are stupid - as an attack on Black people.

      Correlation does not equal causation. While some change in attitude may have changed in the past 100 years, plenty of other factors were at work other than the end of segregation. The primary cause was the increase in money going into sports and increased popularity of professional sports as a result of television. Before that sports were just hobbies of students. But once money started to pile in, sports became the focus. Once kids with no hopes of even being accepted into college could get full scholarships for playing ball, where do you think their priorities are going to lie?

      And the dumb jock thing has been around since the ancient Greeks when philosophers of the time characterized athletes as "useless and ignorant citizens with dull minds." (Coakley, J.J. 1994, Sport in Society: Issues and Controversies). Any time you have a group of people who can live their lives without being educated you are going to find a stereotype regarding their intelligence. I am willing to bet farmers have just as bad of an intelligence stereotype as athletes, and that profession is almost 85% white.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    3. Re:Dumb jock lie by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      When the African-Americans were allowed to compete with whites, many did well and disturbed some people's idea that white people were superior. So, they (racist whites) made up the lie that really talented atletic people are stupid - as an attack on Black people.

      That doesn't explain why the majority of athletes at my old high school back home, which was populated 99.999% with white kids, were abject morons who slept through class and still got B's. They didn't learn shit, because they didn't have to; race had nothing to do with it*.

      Seriously, I remember one guy, the "star" lineman for our terrible, terrible football team, who graduated without being able to spell anything other than his own name.

      * The black kid (no, really, we only had the one) was actually a very smart dude, and a killer athlete to boot. Pretty sure he teaches now.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  8. Re:slowly deflate the bloated whale, lighten our l by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 1

    It’s not nice to refer to American teenagers as bloated whales, and I think putting holes in them is a bit drastic.

    Oh, off topic. Never mind.

    --
    Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
  9. Significant number of girls? by squisher · · Score: 1

    The anonymous submitter has a very different idea of what constitutes significant than I do... 7% girls may be infinitely more than 0, but is still not very much over all!

  10. Re:"It's a start, right" by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

    "I played Starcraft tournaments for 5 years" isn't exactly great resume material

    Sure it is, but like any other skill it has to be written so it shows what's useful about you. A resume is an account of your abilities, not a biography.

    Playing Starcraft competitively for five years could easily be described by saying you "competed professionally in strategy tournaments", and when accompanied by a short description of the primary skills you excelled in (resource management, risk mitigation, public relations), it becomes a very positive credential.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  11. How about getting them off their gizmos? by grogger · · Score: 1

    A large number of kids at my kid's highschool are failing courses. My son failed one and we traced it to his smart phone. We took it away and after months of complaining, he actually thanked us. Smart phone apps and video games are designed to be addictive. Kids (and many of us) are now addicted to checking apps and playing games 24/7. Attention spans are shortening and nerves are fraying. Real sports (hockey, soccer, football, etc) are temporary respites from the "always on" world. Replacing these with more video games is just stupid.

    1. Re:How about getting them off their gizmos? by mlts · · Score: 1

      Expanding on this, how about high schools focusing on life after graduation? Sports and e-sports are a nice sideshow, but a US kid fresh out of high school will be competing for jobs with someone from Germany, China, Chile, or Russia whose government has paid for not just the college education, but likely graduate level work.

      I'd probably suggest having trades as an option, be it basic electrical, welding, plumbing, even PC troubleshooting and obtaining certificates in the IT world. None of these are glamorous, but they are needed, and oftentimes, high school is the end of the education run for a lot of people (as college is not affordable, nor does it help in the job market.)

      Maybe even a way for students to obtain certificates if they wanted to go into IT. A 18 year old fresh out of high school with a MCSE is likely better off for a lot of work than someone with a CS degree and no certificates. No student loan debt either.

    2. Re: How about getting them off their gizmos? by grogger · · Score: 1

      From what I see eSports is just a fancy name for competative gaming. Like chess or bridge but with computers and flashy screens.

  12. Re:"It's a start, right" by uCallHimDrJ0NES · · Score: 1

    CORRECT

    --
    Cloudiot: A person who does not see offsite storage as a way to lose control over access to his or her own data.
  13. Re:I don't want this. by Ziggitz · · Score: 1

    You know what also fails your test of physical activity and social interaction? Reading.

    --
    There is no memory shortage. yes I have heard of XFCE. Go away.
  14. Re:"It's a start, right" by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

    Subtly insightful: All fast-food fries must be timed so enough is available when rushes come in, but there's only a few minutes' window before it cools too much. Resource management and a keen sense of timing are very desirable qualities for a fry cook. Of course, that same skill set is necessary for managing a supply chain. You have to get parts ordered with sufficient lead time so they'll arrive before the production facility runs out, but you also don't want to be wasting storage space (and the associated facilities budget) holding more stock than you need.

    My point is that the same skills Starcraft competitions rely on are very close to what certain business sectors need. Perhaps you successfully built your own fan base as a gamer, and now can turn that into a marketing career. Maybe you were able to perfectly balance defenses, and now have a well-trained sense of how to build and evaluate defense-in-depth security. There could be a good career in government work for you. Even if the only thing you were good at was predicting your opponents' strategies, that could be spun into a successful career as an industry analyst.

    Don't discount skills just because they were used for something fun.

    --
    You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
  15. Title IX Of Course by Bigbutt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Title IX of course. Since there aren't as many women and girls in Video Gaming, once they're 'Sports', Title IX can be used to "encourage" girls to play. Then there'll be more girls in Video gaming!

    It's just like real sports where Title IX has brought the participation of women up to close what mens participation is (like 45/55 I think was the last stat I read).

    I've also heard Title IX is being examined to apply to STEM courses as well to ensure more women are represented in STEM courses.

    http://www.dailyherald.com/art...
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

    [John]

    --
    Shit better not happen!
    1. Re:Title IX Of Course by Triklyn · · Score: 1

      if it worked, i would applaud it. I view gaming and pc gaming in particular to be a gateway drug to programming. so, you know, hopefully.

    2. Re:Title IX Of Course by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Since there aren't as many women and girls in Video Gaming

      Who says there aren't? The ESA begs to differ with you:

      http://www.theesa.com/facts/pd...

      Adult women are a larger gaming demographic than teenage boys!

    3. Re:Title IX Of Course by Draugo · · Score: 1

      Title IX is also used to throw male students out of higher education based on rape claims that police have investigated and deemed fake or that have even been anonymous without any proof or involvement from officers of law. These men have been given no chance to defend themselves from these claims but instead their futures have been destroyed because of anonymous or provably false rape claims. It is a sign of our culture that a false rape claim can destroy mans future more thoroughly than false murder claim.

    4. Re:Title IX Of Course by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      Well, Title IX is being used to ensure colleges actually follow up on rape accusations vs sweeping them under the rug or performing a delaying action until the case times out (180 days). There have been a few fakes that I've found in searching. But I do also find it astounding (in my reading) that a woman can say she agreed to the sex, (went back to his place, said 'yes', etc) but felt that she was under duress and can call it rape. Makes you want to just avoid contact with women entirely.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
  16. But... by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

    ...will they be able to defend the Frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan Armada?

    1. Re:But... by Feanorian · · Score: 1

      ...will they be able to defend the Frontier against Xur and the Ko-Dan Armada?

      OOOOh if only I had some mod points. One of my favorite corny sci-fi movies as a youngin. Look out for those Xan-do-Xans as well

  17. Re:"It's a start, right" by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

    Playing Starcraft competitively for five years could easily be described by saying you "competed professionally in strategy tournaments", and when accompanied by a short description of the primary skills you excelled in (resource management, risk mitigation, public relations), it becomes a very positive credential.

    That is, until the potential employer asks where you worked when you developed those skills, and the flop sweat starts appearing on your brow as you scramble to come up with a better answer than "my mom's basement."

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  18. Re:Wrong! by ranton · · Score: 1

    Good to know, thanks.

    --
    -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
  19. These comments prove that /. is for old people. by sweffymo · · Score: 1

    Just saying.

  20. Re:"It's a start, right" by farble1670 · · Score: 1

    Playing Starcraft competitively for five years could easily be described by saying you "competed professionally in strategy tournaments", and when accompanied by a short description of the primary skills you excelled in (resource management, risk mitigation, public relations), it becomes a very positive credential.

    yes, and as long as the company of interest doesn't ask any further questions on the topic, then all's good.

  21. There are a significant number of girls getting in by Draugo · · Score: 1

    Why should we care? Why? If they want to join and play competitively as a hobby good for them, if they don't want to then it doesn't matter either way.