Slashdot Mirror
Did the Ignition Key Just Die?
cartechboy (2660665) writes "Do you still use a metal key to start your vehicle? We already knew this was old tech at this point, but now it might fully be killed off. In the wake of General Motors' 'Switchgate' fiasco, we've heard the CEO tell a Congressional committee that the recall may force GM to ditch ignition keys altogether in favor of push-button systems. If this became a reality, it would end decades of complaints from customers. Bloomberg approximates at least 18,000 complaints have been filed since NHTSA was formed in 1970, peaking at more than 2,000 in the year 2000. Those complaints resulted in roughly 21 million vehicles being recalled. The push-button ignition isn't perfect, but we know electrical trumps mechanical more often than not. Are you ready for an era where the ignition key doesn't exist?"
My throttle is stuck open and I don't know how to shut the engine down!
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Are you ready for an era where the ignition key doesn't exist?"
A physical key still unlocks the doors when the car's battery has died. A physical key doesn't itself have a battery to die, leaving you stranded in a blizzard in the middle of nowhere after you stop to pee on the side of the road. And perhaps most importantly - A physical key doesn't cost some $300 to replace when you drop it in a puddle. If that particular scam doesn't solely account for the auto industry's desire to move to keyless fobs, I have a bridge for sale.
Those recalls were predominantly due to issues which arose as a direct result of companies cutting cost by deliberately making parts weaker, cheaper, less durable, etc. It is simply naive to suggest that these same companies will apply more care or consideration when designing all electrical systems.
All a switch to electronic system will do is replace infrequent mechanical recalls with increasingly more frequent updates of shoddy on-board software. Eventually, drivers will be expected to download and install car software patches themselves. Once again, company costs will be externalized at the expense of quality.
May the Maths Be with you!
What if you want to switch it to position 2 and push-start a manual transmission car?
... then you push the button twice without your foot on the brake. It goes to run mode just like the second detent of a traditional key. Pressing once goes to accessory mode. More presses simply cycles between accessory...run...off.
Nonsense. Every time there's a change in the tech sphere, Slashdot is one of the last sites to notice, much less voice skepticism and discomfort.
My car only has a key interface. It never fails.
I have a friend who has an electronic proximity thing (not push button). It fails occasionally. At which point she has to revert to using a key. And the key never fails.
The issue isn't whether a means of unlocking/starting the car IN ADDITION to the key is "the future".
It's whether any of those systems are as reliable as the physical key is and can 100% replace the key so that keys are never used again for cars.
This line of thinking – mechanical keys are not perfect and sometimes don't work properly, therefore we must replace them with something else – fails to take into consideration that whatever we replace it with will also not be perfect and will also sometimes not work properly, especially in new and unexpected ways that we are not prepared for. Fact is, the mechanical ignition key is a pretty well-debugged piece of technology. It isn't fundamentally broken, and doesn't need to be "fixed" by throwing it out and hastily replacing it with something else, especially something without a century of usage behind it.
I'll be honest: I'm an old-fashioned person who liked having the ability to shut off a computer by physically opening the circuit that powered it (i.e. flipping a big crimson switch). As a tech, I get frustrated with equipment that has a "power button" that really only serves to put the device in low-power standby mode, such that turning it "off" and back "on" doesn't reinitialize it (requiring me to instead pull the power cable from the wall ... which only works if it doesn't have a battery). The "open the pod bay doors, Hal" approach doesn't give me warm fuzzies, mostly due to experience with the real world where new technology routinely fails to live up to the naïve expectations of the young and/or credulous.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Well, my old Ford Contour had a key interface that failed. The tumblers in the ignition simply wore out. No amount of graphite could bring them back to life. So, I had to have the ignition tumblers replaced, the two front door lock and trunk lock replaced, and the new keys programmed. Not cheap.
You could have replaced the ignition cylinder and then pretty much stopped there. You would have to have two keys then, one for the door and one for the ignition. Sure its an extra key but I bet you already have a number of them on your key ring. Programing the key can probably be done yourself. In fact the ignition cylinder usually isn't that hard to replace yourself either.
How to program the key: (No special equipment needed)
http://mcguirelocksmith.com/ho...
Replace the Cylinder instructions:
http://www.autozone.com/autozo...
Cost of entire fix is 30 dollars, and maybe two hours of your time. The longest part is the programing which looks to take about 45 minutes.
Now how much do you think it will cost to troubleshoot and fix push button system? At least three hours labor is my guess, and probably 200 in parts. So close to 500 bucks at a minimum? Give me the cylinder lock I can replace in the parts store parking lot for the win.
Dad's '40 Buick Super had an single-sided ignition cylinder (key with teeth on one side only) that was mounted to the metal dash. Hard to get at it to hot-wire it, but provided no steering lockout while the vehicle was off. That worked perfectly even when he sold the car around 1998.
Dad's '72 Plymouth Barracuda has a single-sided ignition cylinder mounted to the column, so that it could lock the column when they key wasn't present. Worked fairly well, but occasionally if the front wheels were pressed against a curb when shutting off the engine it would be difficult to get the key to turn next time as there was excessive pressure on the steering lockout parts. Column is metal, still difficult to hot-wire, but not quite as hard as the '40 Buick
The '93 Ford Thunderbird that I used to have had a double-sided ignition cylinder (key with same teeth on both sides) embedded in a plastic-coated steering column that was easily forced open, allowing one to reach the wires for the ignition and to defeat the already worn and not-really-working steering lockout.
The '01 Dodge Ram 3500 Maxiwagon that I drive has a double-sided ignition cylinder, I can remove the key once the vehicle is started. This vehicle has all of those steering-wheel-mounted controls for cruise, so it has a much more complicated clockspring in what ironically is a much older tilt column design.
The '95 Chevrolet Impala that I drive has a single-sided ignition cylinder with a couple of electrical contacts in it, which interface to "GM Passkey II" resistors located in the keys. This is supposed to make it harder to steal the car, but inevitably the contacts in the column or the gossamer-thin wires connecting those contacts to the computer will break, and the vehicle has to have the whole thing bypassed.
To me, the problem isn't the key, it's the placement of the cylinder and the technology used to make special features of that system work. Put the cylinder back in the dash, make the steering lockout a function of the dash more than the column, embed the wiring behind a metal panel so that it's impossible to quickly hot-wire the car, and if you're going to have any special electronic stuff, build it to spec, not crappy. Do all of this and the keyring can be very heavy without making the cylinder wear out, and it's still simpler than using fancy electronic "keys" that have a tendency to have security vulnerabilities.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
I'm using a steam-powered mechanical browser. (A redirection bug once killed our cat and blinded me for a week, and goatse stained the carpet.)
Table-ized A.I.
But what's often forgotten is that Ludd was right. The Industrial Revolution really did cause horrible misery to many, to the point of making violent communistic revolution seem like a good idea. It was not until the unions and fear of another Red October restored some balance that the good began to outshine the bad.
And yes, all machines - including cars - should have a kill switch that mechanically cuts off the power. Industrial machines are required to have those, so why should land missiles mostly operated by amateurs be exempt?
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
How about the ability to turn to "off" to stop an engine affected by a stuck accelerator? Until the start button has a toggle or push button next to it to stop the engine, I don't want one anywhere near my car. And, when I say a button to stop the car, I mean a real kill switch that will ground out the ignition coil(s) or shut off the fuel pump or something similar, or for a diesel shut a fuel solenoid so the engine WILL die.
If I lose power steering or braking I just have to steer or brake harder - ok, it sucks, but if you can't do that you shouldn't be driving. But then, I'm a firm believer that somewhere around 30% of the people on the road should have their licenses taken because they're either physically or mentally unfit to be in control of a vehicle.
I was driving down the street and noticed something odd about the car in front of me... the keys were dangling off the back of the trunk! We came to a red-light and I hopped out and tapped on the woman's window.
She was rather startled but I put on my most innocent face and she rolled down her window a little and I said "Miss, sorry for startling you but your car keys are dangling off the back of your trunk!". She did a double take and then realized that it was true! Her button ignition switch had worked because the keys just happened to be 'close enough'.
I said "wait a moment, I'll get them for you now" (I didn't want to get them first because she might have driven off and would then not have had her keys at all). I went to the back, got the keys, and handed them to her through the window. She smiled and said thank you.
I went back to my car and managed to get my seatbelt back on and ready to go before the light turned green again.
True story :-)
-Matt
With the Tesla you simply walk up to the vehicle with the proximity fob. The car unlocks and you get in and drive. No key. No button. The On/Off switch is the lever on the steering wheel column you use to put it in drive, reverse and park. When you get out of the car and walk away, it locks itself. You can also use a mobile app to lock/unlock, warm up car etc...
After a year the only problem we ever have is leaving the engine running and walking away from our gasoline car because you get so used to how the Tesla works.
Greed is the root of all evil.
Very unacceptable, I think.
I just bought a car off a friend. Got a good price on it, in part because the lock system would not work.
Why didn't it work? The electronics. The door closed/open sensor system for the drivers door failed.
In my opinion, it should be a "so what". But the manufacturer tied all kinds of "smarts" into it.
Locks will not lock or unlock, because the system thinks the door is open. So, for weeks until I got it figured out and fixed, I could not lock it.
And dont get me started on the two keys. I have to have two keys. One unlocks and locks as a remote, the other actually starts the car.
Electronics again. And "you will buy expensive stuff from us only" pathology. The battery is dead in the one that starts the car.
Sealed unit, have to cut the case apart to replace the 3 dollar battery. Made this way so they can charge, I think, about 250 for a remote/key combination.
Yeah, I could get it fixed. 250 for the new key(s), then whatever ( lots ) the dealer wants for reprogramming things...
Electronics are good, I like the fuel economy afforded by the engine controls.
I like the remote, when it is working properly.
And many others, I if I thought about it for a while. But I dont like how electronic systems are used to extort.
emt 377 emt 4
No in wont - the whole point of this technology is to drive the price up.
Replacement metal key $5.
Replacement electronic key $200.
Go and ask in your nearest car dealership.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII