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Pentagon Document Lays Out Battle Plan Against Zombies

mpicpp sends this news from CNN: "Never fear the night of the living dead — the Pentagon has got you covered. From responses to natural disasters to a catastrophic attack on the homeland, the U.S. military has a plan of action ready to go if either incident occurs. It has also devised an elaborate plan should a zombie apocalypse befall the country, according to a Defense Department document obtained by CNN. In an unclassified document titled 'CONOP 8888,' officials from U.S. Strategic Command used the specter of a planet-wide attack by the walking dead as a training template for how to plan for real-life, large-scale operations, emergencies and catastrophes."

131 comments

  1. Wooooo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm glad to see tax money put to such wasteful use... For a brief time I thought they would actually do something worthwhile with taxes.....

    Do you get the angry sarcasm in that statement? It is sarcasm!

  2. Insurgents trying to overthrow US dictators by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pentagon couldn't vey well openly plan to fight a war against the unhappy general US population, opposing it's military dictatorship, so they had to invent "Zombies." The real target here is US citizens who don't like their fascist government.

  3. Guess they overestimated some. by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Informative

    From the document, it says for this training excersize, "we elected to use a completely impossible scenarios that could never be mistaken as a 'real plan'.

    1. Re:Guess they overestimated some. by Livius · · Score: 1

      The Zombie apocalypse, although implausible, is so viscerally terrifying because it is only an exaggeration of realistic threats. A super-virulent form of rabies is theoretically possible.

      I suspect the sensationalism is probably getting in the way of the exercise being a truly productive use of time and resources, but if they're ready for a Zombie apocalypse, it stands to reason that they're ready for more realistic variations on the theme.

    2. Re:Guess they overestimated some. by bitt3n · · Score: 2

      if they're ready for a Zombie apocalypse, it stands to reason that they're ready for more realistic variations on the theme.

      Sure we may be ready for a zombie apocalypse, but are we prepared for the poor plotting, derivative story-line, cheap jump-scares, wooden acting, gratuitous sex scenes, and corny self-referential jokes of the inevitable sequel?

    3. Re:Guess they overestimated some. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This, a zombie apocalypse is a very possible threat given the right mutations.

      But more to the point, a zombie apocalypse is a great way to prepare for literally the worst kind of scenarios in regards to societal collapse, one that is virulent and deadly.
      Dealing with a zombie apocalypse helps you identify infection vectors (biological attacks), physical violence (general chaos), secure installations (brute force attack) and many others.
      It really is a good way to round up very real scenarios in to one heading, and zombies generally fit them all.

      Likewise with alien invasion, there are plans in place if such things were to happen, despite being unlikely given the vast distances of space.
      If aliens were to find us, they either have a really great head start on us so could wipe us from the planet, or they are similar to us technology wise and just spent a ridiculous amount of resources to one-way missions to attack a planet to take over it. Both of those are unlikely scenarios.
      But there is still that middle-ground where there could be a chance of survival. (admittedly that middle ground is heavily towards the latter than the former)

      Investigating and planning for the worst of the worst is a good idea, it is things like that that has helped prevent massive outbreaks of infection from killing millions, even billions, like in cases with SAR, the current MERS, swine flu (blown way up admittedly) and other large scale infections.
      It is going to be even more needed as virulence increases and our protections against them are failing.
      There could be a day where a simple cut will kill again. Hopefully it never sees the light of day.

    4. Re:Guess they overestimated some. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hoards of zombies can be described as desperate mass of people who need food, shelter and medical assistant that
      the authoritah cannot provide. This (and many other plans) are to 'deal' with such situation to protect the few who can
      afford resources the majority cannot get to and are not willing to share.

    5. Re:Guess they overestimated some. by Pharmboy · · Score: 1

      I'm glad to see that even the ACs around here see the benefit of this. I read enough of the article (really) to get a pretty good feel, and wondered if /.ers were going to trash or praise the idea. As a training tool, it is pretty useful, more practical ways than it might seem at first glance, as it is fun enough to keep people's attention when being trained.

      And yes, there are some real life parallels to zombies, like the AC said, or rapidly spreading infectious disease. Interesting stuff.

      --
      Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
    6. Re:Guess they overestimated some. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      are we prepared for [..] gratuitous sex scenes

      This is Slashdot. Lots of preparation is done for gratuitous sex scenes, even if zombie apocalypses are the only way for them to actually happen.

  4. Re:I need to know something by tomhath · · Score: 2
    RTFA

    "The document is identified as a training tool used in an in-house training exercise where students learn about the basic concepts of military plans and order development through a fictional training scenario,"

  5. Re:I need to know something by CmdrEdem · · Score: 1

    In the mid 1800's artificial satellites were only science fiction too. As was robotics in the mid 1900's. Now all the global telecommunication depends on satellites and robots are faster and stronger than humans, even if they do not have cognitive capabilities comparable to ours yet.To have a plan is the simplest form of preparation. It's not like they have extra infrastructure or personal around the clock to stop something like a zombie infestation from happening, but they have a plan. And they will spend their time and resources with exercises anyway. Might as well go bat shit crazy.

    But anyway, it's not like my country's army has money to buy ammo for live ammo exercises.

    I think I speak for all non-Americans when I say: Let the US Army burn money with harmless thoughts instead of black R&D, torture camps, wars on other countries and so on.

    --
    This combination doesn`t exist: ETIs that know about humanity and want to see us dead. Otherwise we wouldn't exist.
  6. Re:I need to know something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ebola is as good as a zombie outbreak and there is one in a modern city in West Africa
    http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/o...

  7. Just a question: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How much of this plan could apply to a mass rebellion against a state or the federal government, if people get tired of the corporatism?

    1. Re:Just a question: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If by "people" you really mean "zombies" then all of it.

    2. Re:Just a question: by wjcofkc · · Score: 3, Funny

      I always thought it was the Federal Government that was made up of zombies. After all, the do desperately need brains.

      --
      Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    3. Re:Just a question: by gmrath · · Score: 2

      Both funny, and sadly, insightful.

    4. Re:Just a question: by wjcofkc · · Score: 1

      Yeah. When I was typing it out, I honestly wasn't sure if I was going for tongue-in-cheek insightful or just dark funny. We'll see how the moderation goes. Although I suspect my "sorry I just woke up" typo will come in to play here.

      --
      Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    5. Re:Just a question: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a key difference, though: while zombies need and likewise *want* brains, governments need them without wanting. :)

  8. Plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What, round everybody up into refugee camps? Pass.

  9. Re:I did man... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because training.

  10. Re:I need to know something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ebola is as good as a zombie outbreak and there is one in a modern city in West Africa http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/o...

    that really sucks, the local warlord had PLANS for those people!

  11. Re:I need to know something by mellon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Zombies are a metaphor for poor people. You can't make a battle plan for what to do when the proletariat rises, because the optics are bad, but you can plan for zombies. Yet another reason to do something about income inequality before it comes to that.

  12. Baaa by maseo126 · · Score: 1

    So that's where that last 375 million went! Maybe I should just give the gubmint 100% of my earned income as tax. Wizards of frugality. Because puppies.

  13. Re:I did man... apk by KingOfBLASH · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Emergency services have been using things like "zombie attacks" for decades. There's a lot of reasons why. One is if a civilian stumbles onto your training exercise, they're more likely to think it's some sort of movie then to get scared. Another is it's a bit lighthearted for a serious subject and may make it more enjoyable for people involved. And, any skills or experienced from the fantasy directly carries over to real life situations.

  14. Pentagon Document Lays Out Battle Plan Against by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unsuspecting Citizens. A way to cull the masses when unemployment rates go too high.

    1. Re:Pentagon Document Lays Out Battle Plan Against by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You already have a way to do that, it's called the military.
      And before you say anymore nonsense, unemployment is coming down and is better than the disaster that bush and the banks left you with.

  15. Re:I need to know something by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 3, Informative

    Now all the global telecommunication depends on satellites

    Actually it doesn't. Maybe it did in the 70's, 80's, and 90's, but at about the turn of the millennium satellite communication is increasingly unimportant for global communications. In fact it has the disadvantages of much higher latency, lower bandwidth, and much higher cost.

  16. Re:I need to know something by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

    WTF is all this "zombie attack" crap? Come on - the shit's not REAL, so WTF is the government or anyone else "going off" on this CRAP for anyhow??

    * Seriously - DO THEY KNOW SOMETHING I/WE DON'T?

    (I mean, come on - please already! That's crap's the provonice of Science Ficiion or Horror films/books - nothing more, so WHY WASTE TIME ON IT - especially with taxpayer monies?)

    APK

    P.S.=> I mean it...

    ... apk

    It's a place holder. The CDC has used it as well to simulate the rapid spread of a disease across the country. You see, in any large scale disaster/emergency/attack/whatever, there are quite a few constants: quarantining or blocking off certain areas, logistics, crowd control, evacuations. A "zombie attack" is essentially a placeholder that allows for plans to be drawn up that can be adapted to a wide range of cases. It also keeps those involved entertained and therefore engaged in the exercise because it is so outlandish and impossible (and also something they've likely seen in movies).

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  17. Re:I need to know something by Entropius · · Score: 1

    zombies.malebolge.hl 127.0.0.1

  18. Re:I need to know something by Oil_Tan · · Score: 0

    What the hell do you think is in the flu shots they want you to get so badly? ZOMBIE VIRUS :) have a nice day

  19. This is not an actual defense plan by wjcofkc · · Score: 1
    For those not reading the article, this is not a serious defense plan. The document is for training, zombies could be replaced with another scenerio and the students would still have to think there way through the same logic and set of problems. The zombie spin is a matter of cultural relevancy and thinking out of the box for a scenario.

    "The document is identified as a training tool used in an in-house training exercise where students learn about the basic concepts of military plans and order development through a fictional training scenario," Navy Capt. Pamela Kunze, a spokeswoman for U.S. Strategic Command, told CNN. "This document is not a U.S. Strategic Command plan."

    "Officials familiar with the planning of it say zombies were chosen precisely because of the outlandish nature of the attack premise."

    Awhile back the CDC led a zombie awareness campaign involving the public. The objective was not to prepare for actual zombies, but instead to teach basic principles disaster preparedness in a format that would actually get attention.

    --
    Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    1. Re:This is not an actual defense plan by Andrio · · Score: 1

      It's a plan for the inevitable Captain Trips outbreak.

      --
      The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
  20. Makes most sense I've heard here... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    THAT actually makes SOME sense here (considering zombies are nonsensical fantasy & nothing more). believe it or not. Wouldn't surprise me @ all!

    APK

    P.S.=> What you said actually IS scary, i.e. - substituting "zombies" as a word for a revolt of the working class masses (who've been ROYALLY FUCKED OVER by the TRUE controllers of our now VERY fascist government bought off & PAID for by BRIBERY (lobbyists))

    I suppose you can say that "We have the BEST GOVERNMENT that money TRULY CAN buy" or rather, buy off... apk

    1. Re:Makes most sense I've heard here... apk by mellon · · Score: 1

      Money can only buy our votes, not our government. Which is why we citizen zombies should wake up and smell the brains. Or something like that.

  21. Re: I did man... apk by peragrin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not only that but zombies combine multiple situations. You need physical defense, infection monitoring, unknown medical care, rioting, panic, etc

    You can combine all your forces. Police ambulance fire military into a single exercise easily.

    And it is easier for the actor to play their roles.

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
  22. Misdirection by aviators99 · · Score: 1

    Seems like the only purpose of this article on CNN was to generate page views by people who were fooled by the headline and summary into believing that it actually was meant to be in preparation for a zombie attack. It seems to have worked really well. The purpose of it on /. I don't understand.

  23. If this is CONOP 8888, what's in CONOP 666? by Bruce66423 · · Score: 1

    Just wondering!

    1. Re:If this is CONOP 8888, what's in CONOP 666? by rsmith-mac · · Score: 1

      That plan is for use should Satan rise from Hell. Though I hear that for some inexplicable reason the plan involves Saddam Hussein and a vulgarity-spewing 8 year old.

  24. "Zombie apocalypse" = ??? by Immerman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    First off: training, as others have said. Ridiculous scenarios have the advantage of being more entertaining and less likely to freak out the populace.

    And secondly, if you'll allow me to put on my tinfoil hat for a moment, I imagine the response to a worldwide zombie attack would bear many similarities to the response to mass civilian uprisings - a scenario any power-loving government is afraid of. And can you imagine the reactions if it got out that they had a plan titled "Military response to attempted popular revolution"?

    Not to mention that you don't want to encourage the god-and-country loving rank and file to think about how they would react to being ordered to fire on their neighbors - in a crisis situation you can put a lot of psychological pressure on the troops and possibly get at least a few days or weeks of unhappy obedience before you have to start worrying about mass defections, which used intelligently may be enough to get the population back in line. Put them through a training exercise where they have to confront the possibility of being used for civilian oppression beforehand though, and you may find that a lot of them have already decided they'll have no part in it if the scenario becomes reality.

    And it has the added benefit that anyone claiming that "zombie apocalypse" is a stand-in for "civilian uprising" will sound like they're off their rocker. And so if you'll excuse me I'm going to remove my tinfoil hat and get on with enjying this beautiful Saturday morning.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  25. Re:I need to know something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...because the optics are bad...

    Thanks, now I now never to read anything else you post, ever.

    Are you also one of those assholes sitting around in meetings saying, "well, the ASK is reasonable, and I don't think the LIFT is to big".

    Asshole.

  26. Re:I need to know something by DexterIsADog · · Score: 1

    Shh! Don't say things like that. Stupid people might believe you.

    After all, people still believe what Jenny McCarthy says. And the pope. And the NRA. And Fox News.

  27. Re:I need to know something by knightghost · · Score: 1

    Perception is reality. Zombies are popular. So... this is an excellent teaching tool because it engages the interest of students (not to mention good PR for a public that prefers lies over reality).

  28. trains everything, medical, riot, water shortage.. by raymorris · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Zombie attack is used as great training because it combines many different types of scenarios into one. It's an infectious disease, so you're training mass prophylaxis etc, people get injured, so it covers mass casualties like a plane crash or big explosion, the zombies come after people in mass like a riot or invasion. The water is assumed to be infected with the zombie virus, so it trains infrastructure disaster, etc. Nearly everybody involved with emergency response has to do their job for a zombie scenario, so it's great for a large, coordinated training exercise.

    The last time we ran zombies, here in College Station, I don't know that the computer emergency response people were included. That's the only group not trained by zombie that I can think of. Maybe next time we'lldo zombie hackers. :)
    I work at TEEX in College Station, where we train all sorts of peoplefor every disaster imaginable - we have wrecked trains, buildings that collapse on demand, etc. Most of the classes we offer can probably be included in a zombie scenario .

  29. Re:I need to know something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    * Seriously - DO THEY KNOW SOMETHING I/WE DON'T?

    I think that given how little you know, everyone knows something you don't. ;-)

  30. Re:I did man... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Emergency services have been using things like "zombie attacks" for decades. There's a lot of reasons why. One is if a civilian stumbles onto your training exercise, they're more likely to think it's some sort of movie then to get scared. Another is it's a bit lighthearted for a serious subject and may make it more enjoyable for people involved. And, any skills or experienced from the fantasy directly carries over to real life situations.

    "Woah, no way! A tin-foil hat! I've always heard about them, I wonder how it fits..."

    Fantasy has already become reality, and that is the main reason we are seeing official government documents coming out now is because the t-virus is more fact than fiction. By releasing these documents, the government is helping train citizens for the zombie outbreak they plan on creating in a few years as a method of population control. Of course, individuals and groups will be targeted for infection to help restore the balance of power.

    (removes hat)

    "Man, I don't see how people wear these things."

  31. Survivalists by Dereck1701 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I hang around in survivalists circles a little bit and there's a little bit of a saying there "If you can survive a zombie apocalypse you can survive almost anything" The idea of walking undead creatures with a taste for human flesh is very unlikely (not impossible, but unlikely), but the skills & tools for surviving one will prepare you for a variety of situations (natural disaster, civil unrest, economic collapse, etc). The idea of the military preparing for mass numbers of "zombies" (civilians) rising up and assaulting them is not very settling. There are not many situations in which this kind of training would be necessary except for a civilian uprising, save for some of the aspects of dealing with an defending from assault with limited resources, a breakdown of communications & no backup.

    1. Re:Survivalists by johnjaydk · · Score: 1

      I hang around in survivalists circles a little bit and there's a little bit of a saying there "If you can survive a zombie apocalypse you can survive almost anything".

      Can we have a disturbing mod please?. I don't know if it's up, down or by how much but DAMN I need it here.

      --
      TCAP-Abort
    2. Re:Survivalists by ducomputergeek · · Score: 1

      Last couple years forced me to rethink a few things. I live in the suburbs of a moderate sized city, but have several hundred acres of farmland a couple hundred miles south with a place to stay, well water, septic system, small wind turbine, solar cells, and 100 acres of woods with a wood burning furnace + stove. Have the wind turbine and solar cells because I'm only down there about 1 month a year to look over the farming operations (we rent it out). So we sell most the electricity we generate back to the coop. Then at harvest time, we usually break even when it comes to running the motors for irrigation and driers in the bins.

      I have the guns from my grandfather, a double barrel 12ga goose gun, a .22 Stevens single shot rifle, 1903 Springfield, a M1911, and a Walther PP trophy gun from WWII plus I have a AR, 2 9mm pistols for CCW (same model), a Mosin Nagant, a .38 revolver, and a .40S&W pistol. I figured the common thought of "Keep standard calibers and you'll be able to find ammo" was a good one. I used to keep enough ammo around to load magazines once. Basically enough that if I wanted to run to the range and didn't have time to stop off at the store to pick up ammo I could. The most I kept around was about a brick of .22 that would last me a year.

      Well when the craziness happened after Sandy Hook the only thing I could find regularly was .40S&W and 30-06 Springfield. I sold one of my AR's during that time for nearly 3x what I paid for it. I kept the money in a savings account and recently bought a second safe for ammo. In the past few months I've probably bought enough ammo to be on a watch list as I've stocked up on 3000 rounds of 5.56, 3000 rounds of 9mm, 1000 rounds of .40, 250 rounds of .45ACP, 880 rounds of 7.62x54r, 300 rounds of .38, and 200 rounds of 30-06. And I intend on keeping this supply as reserve and not to shoot. If .22LR ever comes back into stock (hoarders are the main problem right now), I'll probably stock up of 5,000 - 10,000 rounds of that over time. (buy a brick a week for a couple months).

      Five years ago I wouldn't have done that.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    3. Re:Survivalists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The idea of walking undead creatures with a taste for human flesh is very unlikely (not impossible, but unlikely)

      I'm stumped. Please enlighten me as to the scenarios where this is possible?

    4. Re:Survivalists by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      Please enlighten me as to the scenarios where this is possible?

      You might want to Google "Boko Haram"

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    5. Re:Survivalists by Alomex · · Score: 1

      If civilization collapses a few rounds of ammo won't do you any good. Furthermore going alone is the worst plan ever. Band of marauders desperate for food would eventually over run you in no time. The closest thing we have for a guide was the medieval period in which fortified city states were created. Kind of like in Mad Max but each settlement would be substantially larger, in order to assemble a substantive defense force.

    6. Re:Survivalists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not help humanity reach higher states of compassion and consciousness instead of wasting energy and resources on fear and paranoia?

    7. Re:Survivalists by chihowa · · Score: 1

      Bands of marauders would have to find an isolated place in order to overrun it (the solar panels are probably fine, but the wind turbine and wood stove might attract people from afar). Nobody's going to travel hundreds of miles into the middle of nowhere in the hopes of finding supplies. Most of the rounds he's hoarding can be used for hunting, too.

      In the medieval period, repelling multiple armed attackers required architectural defenses and a similar number of trained fighters. That hasn't really been the case since the invention of the firearm. A single person (or a few people) with a bunch of bullets in a reasonably well selected location could keep off a bunch of desperate marauders long enough to make them decide to move on.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    8. Re:Survivalists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That sounds awesome. Any details on how to actually do that?

    9. Re:Survivalists by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I vote for a nuke strike over Kansas, taking out most of the USA with an EMP, followed by a ground assault by China with troops garrisoned in Mexico or Russia flooding across after the EMP

    10. Re:Survivalists by Alomex · · Score: 1

      That hasn't really been the case since the invention of the firearm

      I must have imagined concrete bunkers and pill boxes all over Europe.

      A single person (or a few people) with a bunch of bullets in a reasonably well selected location

      Erh, nowadays we have this thing called artillery. A band of marauders is likely to have availed themselves to at least one piece.

    11. Re:Survivalists by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      Just remember that as ammo ages it can fail to fire, or delayed fire of sufficient time to allow you to curiously peek into the barrel to see what's wrong. Point being you'll need to eventually restock your ammo, depending on the level of reliability you require.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    12. Re:Survivalists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no "higher consciousness". There is only the truth of the Bible. You might consider watching Kent Hovinds movies.

    13. Re:Survivalists by chihowa · · Score: 1

      I thought we were talking Mad Max, not a full-blown war. Why would a modern army with artillery be attacking this guy's little farm?

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    14. Re:Survivalists by Dereck1701 · · Score: 1

      There are several precedents in the insect world, several forms of fungus & several small insects use other insects as a form of propagation. Ophiocordyceps unilateralis will infect several species of ants & force them to climb to areas above ant activity so they can spread their spoors and infect more ants. I can't remember what its called but there is another case of an insect laying its egg inside an ant species, then after the egg hatches it begins eating the ant from the inside, eventually working its way up to the head where it pops it off and then drives it around like a car until its mature when it repeats the cycle. In the animal kingdom its far more rare, the nearest thing would be rabies. Which of course infects its host, causes inflammation in its brain resulting in violent behavior, that violence results in bites which carry the virus. A fast acting human strain of rabies, or some kind of parasite inducing violent behavior to spread itself is not outside the realm of possibility, though of course the virulence seen in most film & literature is highly unlikely.

    15. Re:Survivalists by Dereck1701 · · Score: 1

      Thousands of rounds of ammunition is a little more than "a few rounds". Its true that you're not going to stop a large, determined band of marauders with a a few firearms. However early on most marauder groups are probably going to be poorly organized rabbles looking for easy prey, they're going to turn and run after they watch a few of their number get softball size chunks blown out of them by 7.62 x 54r. Later on you're probably going to have to form larger communities to protect from the now larger & better organized marauder groups, but surviving the first few months to a year after a major calamity is going to be the first hurtle.

    16. Re:Survivalists by Alomex · · Score: 1

      This much I agree with. It will buy you a few months. Thereafter you better have a plan B.

    17. Re:Survivalists by Dereck1701 · · Score: 1

      "ammo ages"

      Rifle ammo can last a LONG TIME assuming it is stored correctly. I shoot surplus ammo through my 7.62 x 51 (308) pretty often that from what I understand is German ammo from the 50s-70s and I've yet to ever run into a dud round.

    18. Re:Survivalists by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      hmm, massed frontal assault by a half dozen desperate (not suicidal) guys, or a simple catapult/trebuchet with a modified propane tank.
      Artillary is not difficult.

    19. Re:Survivalists by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but after a few months, most people will be dead and the situation will be very different.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
  32. Re:I did man... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Boring The American Doctrine of never using a single bullet when 30 can be used wont work on Zombies.
    Zombies for the win - still no military wins * for the merkins in my life time (* you win the battle but lose the war).

  33. Just a disguise by YoungManKlaus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    that plan actually covers the uprising of large parts of the population against the government.

  34. There should be a game of this by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    To have any chance, all dead who haven't completely disintegrated would have to zerg rush military bases. That's the only possible way.

    It's like Risk, Japan has to take Hawaii, or not, but it's decided early on.

    An alternate strategy, attack and convert the populace early, would just suffer the same fate even if successful.

    Now, take out ammo plants, that might work if your zergs can out-attrit bullet stores in bases.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  35. Article title is clickbait. by pslytely+psycho · · Score: 1

    If you read the second link to the actual document. The very beginning is a disclaimer that basically states they used this scenario specifically to add interest to an otherwise dry subject.
    It doesn't change the subject, nor the training. It merely adds a little 'fun' to the course.
    As other posters noted. The survival techniques are still valid. The Zombie angle just to make it interesting. And most people will retain more from an interesting class than a dull one.
    The headline is clickbait.
    If they were saying "OMG there might really be a zombie apocalypse then yeah, what B.S.
    But that isn't the point at all.

    --
    Donald Trump, on a crusade to make Nixon look respectable
  36. Re: trains everything, medical, riot, water shorta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We call the computers of private citizens infected by botnet logic Zombies. So perhaps we can just have a virus that also is digital to include the CERT team as well.

  37. After collapse: Hordes of famished people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They know what's coming.

    MIT has calculated 40 years ago that our civilization will collapse, having reached it's limit for growth, somewhere around the years 2030.

    These calculations, statistical analysis and mathematical modeling have been confirmed many times with new data available since the '70s.

    What they are preparing for, is the hordes of zombie like famished people roaming cities and countryside looking for something to eat and no choice other than doing anything for it.

    See here the latest confirmation of the MIT's calculations:
    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/looking-back-on-the-limits-of-growth-125269840/?no-ist=

  38. Not hard to imagin a need to.. by MonsterMasher · · Score: 1

    Some viral contagions could be so bad that you have to kill at a distance, and stay the f away from the body without super spaceship equipment.
    .
    A contagion that runs a high fever and huge agitation could turn a block of your neighborhood into a zombie movie scene.
    .
    Believe it.
    .
    (PS. They are training to get the soldiers use to the idea of killing their own family when they are going through your city block rounding up 'bad people,' like you are likely.)
    .

  39. Re:I need to know something by lgw · · Score: 1

    Can't even tell if you're trolling. /. has gotten that bad these days.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  40. We're screwed! by PPH · · Score: 1

    I went to read the plan from the link in TFS. It sent me to a document hosted on scribd.com, which required a facebook login to download. So this means that in order to defend ourselves against a zombie attack, we will have to be assimilated so we can even read the plan.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  41. Re:I need to know something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Zombies are a metaphor for poor people.

    Poverty can be transmitted by bite?! Thanks for telling me! Now all I have to do is make sure I never get bitten, and I'll never need to worry about being poor again.

  42. The Zombie Attack has already started by bswarm · · Score: 1

    Brainless Walking Dead, that describes most of the politicians running/ruining the country right now.

    1. Re:The Zombie Attack has already started by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL. if politicians are brainless, why is it that you are the one that is getting screwed over?

    2. Re:The Zombie Attack has already started by bswarm · · Score: 1

      Because zombies only care about feeding themselves.

  43. Re:I need to know something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Zombies are a metaphor for poor people.

    Ha! Nice one.

    The problem is the army is mostly composed of poor people.

  44. Funny Read by Tyler+Durden · · Score: 1
    From the Pentagon's document, under Zombie Threat Summary (section 4.6 vii)...

    2. (U) Of note, where normal carniverouse zombie commonly groan the word "brains" semi-comprehensibly, VZ's [vegetarian zombies] can be identified by their aversion to humans, affinity for plants and their tendency to semi-comprehensibly groan the word "grains".

    --
    Happy people make bad consumers.
    1. Re:Funny Read by snookiex · · Score: 1

      I found specially funny the possibility of facing EMZ (Evil Magic Zombies)

      --
      Open Source Network Inventory for the masses! Kuwaiba
  45. Re:I need to know something by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

    When I was house shopping, my fiance asked me what me criteria were for choosing a house I told her "Location, Size, Price, Layout, Number of Bedrooms and Defensibility in the event of a Zombie Apocalypse."

    Zombie outbreaks are a metaphor for civil unrest. Basically, anything that disrupts food delivery or utilities for a week will be the equivalent of a zombie apocalypse.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  46. Re:I did man... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even if there was a secret islamophobic agenda, this would be incredibly ineffective training because Zombie scenarios assume very limited infiltration and stealth - only people who know they've been bitten and just want a few more hours of life. If Muslims all of a sudden coordinated an attack, most of them would just say they were Christian and attack covertly. Barricades and heavy weapons would be useless.

  47. Re:I need to know something by meerling · · Score: 1

    Simple. There will never be a zombie attack.
    On the other hand, being able to train for extreme situations without making the obvious mistake of assigning a real world group as the 'bad guys' because everybody knows zombies don't exist.

    If they had used a real world opponent, there would be two problems.
    The first, is the diplomatic problems that would arise from them planning conflicts with that group. How do you think China, or The United Kingdom, or any other country would respond to something like that.
    Second, there's the whole problem with mindset. You get everybody training to fight someone in the real world, and that's the opponent they think about fighting. If that actually ends up being your real foe, see the first issue, then that's not so bad, but if it ends up being someone else, then you have the problem of people using the wrong strategies since they are mentally locked on the one they trained for. If you always know your opponent is non-existent, and not just a renamed nazi/soviet/scientologists/whatever, then you concentrate more on the fundamentals rather than your training analogs.

    It's a good idea to train against a completely fictional opponent that will never be mistaken for anyone in the real world for various reasons. Too bad you don't understand that.

  48. they barely even hide it anymore by globaljustin · · Score: 1

    they had to invent "Zombies." The real target here is US citizens who don't like their fascist government.

    I saw the ***exact same thing***

    fsking CIA criminals & their aristocrat/illuminati overlords

    Jeb Bush 2016!

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
  49. Re:I need to know something by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
    Poverty can be transmitted by bite?

    Yes. That is the real reason why you should avoid the ghetto girls in 3rd world countries!

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  50. Re:I need to know something by mellon · · Score: 1

    Whiner. :)

  51. Re:I need to know something by mellon · · Score: 1

    I wish I were. I don't know that that's actually what's motivating this, and I certainly hope it's not. But the idea of zombies as an unsubtle metaphor for the proletariat is well trodden and more plausible than I would prefer. Of course, they also make for really good fiction. I recommend Mira Grant's Newsflesh series, and Carrie Ryan's The Forest Of Hands And Teeth, both of which have some genuinely hair-raisingly scary bits that made my hands sweat.

  52. Re:I need to know something by mellon · · Score: 1

    That's probably more of a saving grace than a problem. It's prevented a lot of evil deeds in the past; would be nice to think it could prevent some more in the future.

  53. Re:I need to know something by mellon · · Score: 1

    It's a metaphor, son. A metaphor.

  54. Re:I need to know something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Actually, it's probably the reverse. The transformation of the Roman army from a drafted landholding class to paid professional soldiers was one of the factors in the collapse of the Roman Republic. People who don't feel a strong connection to established society won't balk at overthrowing it.

  55. Re:I did man... apk by amorsen · · Score: 1

    An enemy that may look like normal people, but want to kill or convert all others ...

    You are behind, that is definitely about the Commies, the Cold War stuff is back. Islamophobia was last decade.

    --
    Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
  56. Ah but conservative Voters fit better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) Conservatives vote brainlessly on dead social issues where the public was only on their site when they were alive.

    2) They screw themselves by supporting people and policies against their own interests-- that is just brainless!

    3) They are after the brains of others; just like killing the golden goose they attack the sources of the great stuff they wish to have. Anti-science but their whole life is loaded with the results of it, if not having science give them their life and keep it in the 1st place!

    Mostly it's #1 and #2 is only similar in that they are incredibly stupid.

  57. Re:I did man... apk by Rande · · Score: 1

    Especially the double-tap to the head. Gotta make sure.

  58. Don't be so simple by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    Money buys government. Our votes are symbolic; ignoring the cheating games keeping people distracted, it's a choice between a flavor of corruption.

    One is faster than the other but it depends on the flavor in what way. Some issues 1 side can do faster on the guise of compromise and something extremely unpopular just causes a switch out later and a different set of things can be done until revisiting it again--- after voters forget... they only have about a 1 year memory and on big issues you only need to wait about 8 years; on bigger things it only takes a generation to change.

    Why buy votes? The system is easy to rig because the weak point is controlling the available options.

    Regulatory capture. You don't even need the common situation (like FCC today) you can do it by offering great jobs AFTER, nobody can stop that short of laws limiting their employment later (and that of their spouse and kids.)

    Use the pawns you own in gov and other powers to force politicians or better yet, to manipulate them. Such as showing them those nutty threat assessments (which were designed for experts to filter and summarize not for politicians to read because the things are nearly as ridiculous as alien or zombie threats.) The power of the staffers is incredible! Load those up and you can push politicians around without them knowing it.

    Power and influence too great undermines any system you can devise. The ONLY solution is to limit power and it's influence over governance. Branches of government help, term limits kind of (but not really, plenty of corrupt people waiting and effective honest people are RARE,) and the taboo thing in the USA, limiting private influence... which ultimately means income caps.

    Then you have the professional Roman Army that helped collapse that empire... A drafted one makes it harder for the powerful to be immune.

    1. Re:Don't be so simple by mellon · · Score: 1

      What you said doesn't even make sense. Votes are what elects representatives. You have a vote. If you are like most people, you don't vote in the primary election, which is the _only_ time that your vote has any hope of making a difference most of the time. And if you are like most people, you probably routinely vote against your self-interest, because people with a lot of money have used propaganda techniques on you, and you don't know enough to realize you've been snookered. I mean, I hope you're one of the smart ones who doesn't fall into these traps, but on average, you are, and that is why we get representatives who work for the people who bankroll them instead of the people who vote for them.

    2. Re:Don't be so simple by the+grace+of+R'hllor · · Score: 1

      No, he's saying that you can choose between the guy who's going to take your right to know what's in your food because money, or the guy who's going to take your right to know what's in your food. Because money.

      Y'all have a de facto two-party system. That means that neither party has any reason to make drastic changes to their intended policy. They just have to slag the opponent, and 4-12 years later they've got the presidency again. Why bother listening to people?

    3. Re:Don't be so simple by mellon · · Score: 1

      Right. That's why you have to vote in the primary and ideally be active in the primary. Because if we keep not voting in primaries, and not paying attention to who's running, we're going to keep getting two bad choices. The two bad choices don't just come out of nowhere, you know.

  59. Re:I need to know something by mellon · · Score: 1

    That's certainly a problem with military dynasties. How it would play out in practice, I'd prefer not to find out.

  60. Zombies as a metaphore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Zombies have always been a metaphor for the less-intelligent and technologically underequipped races.

    In any sort of US collapse scenario the military will need to exterminate any rioters that threaten the 1% who have been chosen to survive. The military will better armed, more mobile. They will only lack numbers. Should they be surrounded by a pack of "zombies" and their supplies run dry, they face certain doom.

    These scenarios are just a way of training for mass scale slaughter of Americans.

  61. Re:I need to know something by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    Because a training document based on an invasion by China would be politically embarrasing, and one based on an invasion by North Korea would be legitimizing a megalomaniac. So "zombie" is code for "asian" without having anything embarrassing happen if the game plan is leaked.

  62. Re:Training on fantasies? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    It's training on reality. Something will happen sometime. Zombie is a placeholder for "unknown future issue" (or, as I said elsewhere "asian" without political complications).

  63. Re:I need to know something by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    If satellite is so bad, why is it used as the first choice for almost all video operators?

  64. Re:I need to know something by lgw · · Score: 1

    The US military takes an oath that holds the Constitution above the president. And they understand what that means, Plus every totalitarian state for the past century has been left-wing, while the military is mostly right-wing, so I don't see them supporting any dictator wannabe in any case.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  65. Re:I need to know something by EuclideanSilence · · Score: 1

    RTFA

    "The document is identified as a training tool used in an in-house training exercise where students learn about the basic concepts of military plans and order development through a fictional training scenario,"

    Fictional? Maybe that's just what the government wants you to think.

  66. Re:I need to know something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Simply because its wireless. It works great for relaying video, where the latency doesnt matter.
    99%(+?) of telecommunications are IPv4/IPv6 and pass over fiber at some point.

  67. Re:I need to know something by mellon · · Score: 1

    Pinochet was left-wing? The Shah of Iran was left-wing? Saudi Arabia is left-wing? Putin is left-wing? Anyway, "left-wing" is a really stupid concept to mix with "totalitarian," because most of the supposedly left-wing states you refer to were left-wing in name only. Like, I bet you think Stalin's USSR was left-wing, and that China is left-wing, and North Korea is left-wing. But of course they are not.

  68. Avoids in-house racism issues by billstewart · · Score: 1

    It's a way to model attacks by [current favorite threat] or [some other threat] without the risk that you'll get caught yet again using training material that's racist or religiously prejudiced or stupidly outdated, avoids the political problems of using training material where the "enemy" is now one of our allies (like the Germans or Russians or in some decades, Iraqis), and eliminates the problem that the training-material enemy is some national or ethnic group that some of your soldiers happen to belong to. And it means you don't have to do sensitivity training for the people who write your training material.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    1. Re:Avoids in-house racism issues by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

      And with a more realistic practice plan someone might notice when it turns out to be a real attack that has the feel of an inside job.

      --

      -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
  69. Tinfoil by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

    The idea of the military preparing for mass numbers of "zombies" (civilians) rising up and assaulting them is not very settling.

    *sigh* The military is not preparing for any such thing, the tinfoil worn by many survivalists has worn off on you. The military is conducting a _training exercise_, in which commanders and their staff practice taking high level planning/guidance (CONOP 8888 in this case) and transforming it into plans, taskings, and orders.
     

    There are not many situations in which this kind of training would be necessary except for a civilian uprising, save for some of the aspects of dealing with an defending from assault with limited resources, a breakdown of communications & no backup.

    You're reading way too much into this. This is a paper exercise for a staff training course. Exercise writers get bored too, and they come up with all kinds of outrageous/silly things.

  70. Re:I did man... apk by Fjandr · · Score: 1

    It's specifically because it's not a threat, which you would understand if you actually read the article for the purpose of comprehending it. The reasoning is clearly stated in the first section.

  71. Re:I need to know something by lgw · · Score: 1

    Well, you make a good point, I was thinking "dictators of the western world" where the concepts of left and right are familiar. But yeah, Stalin and Hitler (and Mao) were clearly communist and socialist (and communist), respectively. People like to claim "in name only" but really, the core left ideals only work through ever-increasing government coercion, so totalitarianism is an inevitable part of the package (and these guys achieved many of the stated goals of their political philosophies, especially Hitler - if only he had been hit by a bus in 1937!).

    As much as Orwell (an ardent socialist) warned about this danger, he never did come up with a good way to protect against the government taking that path, or rather being hijacked by dictator-wannabes who saw the perfect fit between the politics of he left and their rise to power.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  72. Re:I need to know something by mellon · · Score: 1

    Seriously? Hitler was a socialist? No, the term "socialism" was co-opted by the Nazis to create a right-wing alternative to actual socialism, which was ascendant at the time. There is nothing remotely socialist about Nazism. E.g., Nazism was very much pro-private-property, and anti-equality.

  73. Re:I need to know something by lgw · · Score: 1

    No, really, don't let the revisionists fool you. Hitler was a socialist, and a progressive. He enacted most of the progressive agenda at the time, and was the first in Europe to do a lot of things. Minimum wage, universal health care, social security, high corporate tax rates, the list goes on quite a bit more. And again most of his reforms were "first time in the Western World" stuff - much of the genuine progress of the 20th century happened first in Germany in the 30s (along with many of the mistakes like eugenics that were very popular with socialist writers of the time, but that the modern left tries to forget about). Had he been hit by a bus before he got militarily aggressive, he would have gone down in history as a great statesman: most of the bad stuff happened after he ran out of other people's money.. Before the wars started, he was unambiguously described as a socialist by writers of the time.

    This idea that "Nazis were right wing" is entirely modern. To so many, many people today "right wing == bad". The Nazis were bad, therefore they were right wing: that is the entire modern argument. Don't fall for that rationalization.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  74. Re:I did man... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Several years ago, at the Emergency Management Institute in Emmitsburg MD, I ran across the exercise scenario Operation First Contact. The government was planning for the first contact with aliens. King's absolutely correct. It's easier to get people's attention if they're having a little fun. And planning is planning.

  75. Re: I did man... apk by Gob+Gob · · Score: 1

    "....send more copssss..."

  76. Well, at least you have a safe. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This isn't sarcasm. My comment is genuine. I'm disturbed by what you've chosen to do, but relieved that you've tried to block others from accessing your supplies.

  77. Re:I need to know something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It was cheaper.

  78. Re:I need to know something by mellon · · Score: 1

    Er, no, universal health care was put into place by Bismarck as a means for controlling disease, not out of a desire to promote socialism. Hitler tried to abolish it, but this was so strongly opposed that he gave up. I think you have been reading to much anti-obamacare propaganda—apparently the idea that Hitler is the father of socialized medicine has been floated in a desperate attempt to make Obamacare look bad. But it's completely ahistorical. As are the other points you mentioned—all of those things were put in place in Bismarck's time, not Hitler's time.

  79. Re:I need to know something by lgw · · Score: 1

    Sure, sure, keep telling yourself that Hitler wasn't a socialist, it's always perfectly safe to keep giving the central government more power because corporation koch brother global warming. And hey, if more central power didn't solve the problem, clearly you didn't go far enough. I can see no flaws in this plan.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  80. Re:I need to know something by pnutjam · · Score: 1

    +1 off your meds

  81. nope. by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    DFL primaries seem to function but the GOP ones are largely rigged. I have also observed primary cheating (and it's legal.)

    Say you get your honest candidate in or your 3rd party person gets into 1 of the two parties. If your person gets to run, then you have not only the other side and likely the press against them (because the press defends the established parties) but you have some of their own party working against them; especially the corrupt elements of their own party.

    Ultimately, you can and I often do blame the public, which is an argument that applies to everybody in every form of tyranny. It's one thing to rise up against a dictator and quite another to wake up against The Brave New World. Modern mass-control methods (when you start learning about them) makes one wonder if democracy is even possible in the future... you don't need to fool everybody all the time, just a majority... and getting people to NOT vote and give up is just 1 technique out of a continually growing list of techniques.

      The voting process itself has a massively huge impact; the only hope is to get good voting systems in place. We have nothing of the kind. It would be a miracle to use the broken system against the entrenched powers to repair itself long enough for it to begin to function again.

    All that said, all democracies fall into despotism-- that is just the natural life cycle. Sadly, we live during the end of our short-lived one. It's the people who are responsible for that as well; which is why fixes don't really work - once the disease spreads you are only buying time. Sorry to be realistic.

  82. Re:I need to know something by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

    That, or there are some very top secret biological weapons at some secret lab in Area 51 or somewhere. And since the higher-ups in government know about this weapon, and what would happen if it were to escape, they practice for such an eventuality.

    --

    -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.