Slashdot Mirror


The 69 Words GM Employees Can Never Say

bizwriter (1064470) writes "General Motors put together its take on a George Carlin list of words you can't say. Engineering employees were shown 69 words and phrases that were not to be used in emails, presentations, or memos. They include: defect, defective, safety, safety related, dangerous, bad, and critical. You know, words that the average person, in the context of the millions of cars that GM has recalled, might understand as indicative of underlying problems at the company. Oh, terribly sorry, 'problem' was on the list as well."

40 of 373 comments (clear)

  1. Corporate speak by just_another_sean · · Score: 5, Funny

    Of course they don't need to use any of those words. Everyone knows GM vehicles are doubleplusgood!

    --
    Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    1. Re:Corporate speak by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, avoiding certain words makes sense if those words bolster a legal case against GM, as a partial admission of guilt. Same reason your side mirrors still bear that stupid warning about objects being closer than they appear. Fix your silly legal system that allows anyone to sue anyone over anything, and if their case has any merit, gives them a chance to win the damages or out of court settlement lottery.

      Our own legal system mostly awards actual damages (which can still be quite high in injury suits), and orders only small awards for stuff like "mental anguish". Moreover, we do not have the notion of punitive damages, instead companies can be fined, with the proceeds going to the state, the object being to punish, not arbitrarily reward a wronged party.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:Corporate speak by JazzLad · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's ok, here most of the moneys go to the lawyers anyway.

      --
      "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." - Every fascist, ever
    3. Re:Corporate speak by Linzer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Having lived on both shores of the Atlantic, I very much believe that both systems would have a lot to learn from each other.

      That is, if there was a substantial discussion instead of all the name-calling.

      I know, this is slashdot, but in real life it's not that much better.

      --
      Gravitation is a theory, not a fact.
    4. Re:Corporate speak by penix1 · · Score: 5, Informative

      The other alternative for protecting yourself from lawsuits (besides never using the words the lawyers will find) is to delete all copies of all emails, memos, and presentations that are more than 6 months old. I have heard about a company that tries to use this method to reduce its legal exposure.

      There's a better alternative... Don't make fucked up shit that has to be recalled to protect people's lives. If a recall is necessary, do it as soon as the problem is identified. Don't wait for years to pass in the typical bean counter fashion in the hopes that less people will be hurt than product sold. Don't cover it up and pretend the problem never existed.

      In short, do the right thing and fix the damned thing before more people lose their lives. That is, after all, what we are talking about with most car recalls.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    5. Re:Corporate speak by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Funny

      As a GM employee, I take ___ at the idea that we're all ___ over here. In reality we ___ very hard to make the ___ possible ___ for the American ___. Many of our ___ have spent ___ developing the ___ automobiles in the ___. To ___ the hard working ___ of __ is an ___ to the ___ workers here. But no, the ___ at Slashdot think it's ___ to laugh at the ___ even though they ___ in the same situation. Ever since being taken over by the ___ at the US government during the ___ out we have been held ____ to the highest ___ of excellence by our ___ overlords in ___ DC. No matter what automobile you own, whether it be ___, ___, ___, or even a fine ___, you should be proud of the ___ at ___.

  2. Note to myself: by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Never buy a car from GM. A company that practices this type of policy can not have my confidence in any way.

    --
    Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    1. Re:Note to myself: by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Never buy a car from GM. A company that practices this type of policy can not have my confidence in any way.

      All you know from TFA is that GM has a list. What you don't know is whether other automakers -- or manufacturers in general -- have similar lists. Given that all companies of any size have lawyers whose job it is to reduce potential legal liability, I'd have to assume that GM is not alone in having such a policy.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    2. Re:Note to myself: by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Spoke a manager from GM :-). I prefer companies that are open about their problems than companies that try to hide problems with "disguised words".

      --
      Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
    3. Re:Note to myself: by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you've worked on GM cars, you know what he's talking about. They are mostly underbuilt and they are not built to be maintained, they have a severe love of rivets. They are also well-known for paint failure. The paint is one of the most important parts of the car, it protects the body which I am sure you will agree is a significant part itself.

      The up side of GM is parts interchange, which is by far above the other domestics. They also have some fantastic engines. The down side is everything else.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Note to myself: by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure, "cataclysmic" doesn't belong in an engineering email, but "always", "never", "critical", "serious", "safety", "safety-related", "dangerous" and (best of all, IMO) "problem"? That isn't engineers avoiding hyperbole, that's lawyers avoiding the truth.

    5. Re:Note to myself: by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 5, Funny

      Witness how the GM list doesn't actually subsume George Carlin's list, i.e., while a GM engineer isn't allowed to write "our cars are dangerous", he can opt for "our cars are shit" instead.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    6. Re:Note to myself: by Gr8Apes · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They also have some fantastic engines. The down side is everything else.

      Fantastic engines? Compared to what? Ford Escorts or a 90s Hyundai? Fantastic engines would be those 4-cylinder Toyota, Subaru or Honda engines that run efficiently for 200K miles, or diesel engines from mercedes or volvo that can go 500K. Not some 70s style inefficient powerplant that reliably falls apart pre 100K in some way and requires half a rebuild at a minimum, provided the rest of the car is still functioning.

      I've owned and driven quite a few cars into the high mileage territory (i.e. ~200K) and the 3 domestics I had didn't make it to 80K without significant trouble. To be fair, the absolute worst was a Renault, needing significant engine/transmission work at 50K. I currently have 2 that are about to cross 100K, one will need a valve cover gasket replacement when the spark plugs are done as a non-standard maintenance piece. I suspect both of these will cross 200K without a problem. Neither is domestic. At this point, I'd need to see a reliably reported $0 maintenance cost over 100K miles domestic at least 20% cheaper than an import's price for an equivalent vehicle before I'd even consider it. That means all maintenance covered for 100K miles, except tires, and maybe brakes, although several imports cover the later also for 40-50K.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    7. Re:Note to myself: by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, Apple has a set of forbidden words. Macs don't crash or hang, they "unexpectedly quit" or "stop responding." Things are not "supported", they are "compatible." However nothing is incompatible--they just don't work with Macs.

    8. Re:Note to myself: by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sure, "cataclysmic" doesn't belong in an engineering email, but "always", "never", "critical", "serious", "safety", "safety-related", "dangerous" and (best of all, IMO) "problem"? That isn't engineers avoiding hyperbole, that's lawyers avoiding the truth.

      While I agree with your overall sentiment; "always" and "never" are terms engineers should not use since they generally are not true. They imply a certainty that usually does not exist yet can be used in a court as proof of a problem. For example, a number years ago I worked on a project that had a set of technical specifications that must be met in order to certify the design. In it, the engineers used absolute statements that implied certain equipment would "always" function or "never"be unavailable; conditions that one could not assure with 100% certainty. As a result, has we submitted the specifications as written we would never have been able to certify the design since you could find cases where certain equipment would fail or be unavailable. Even though those cases did not impact safety we technically could not meet the specifications and those legally could not operate. The engineers answer was "of course it's not 100% but who would expect it to be?" and our answer was "the lawyer for those opposed to our plant" since we said it would be and now can't assure that. Unfortunately, what a word means to an engineer is often very different to what how it may be interpreted in a court of law.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  3. The person who made the ppt was immediately fired by barlevg · · Score: 5, Funny

    For using all 69 words. No exceptions, right?

  4. words by serviscope_minor · · Score: 5, Funny

    I like how the article explains to us the meaning behind the words Hindenburg and Titanic.

    You know just in case we couldn't picture an engineer likening the powder keg of a rolling sarcophagus spontansously combusting in an apocalyptic grenadelike explosion, mangling and impaling the hapless ocupants like Curt Cobain flying the Challenger into the Hindenburg.

    On the plus side you could use the result to cook you're toast at the end of it all.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  5. When you gag the enginers ... by johnjaydk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You get a Challenger disaster.

    In my experience, You have to use exactly these words in order to get management to take problems serious. Turns out it was because they put management in a legal bind.

    Any engineer who follows GM's edict should be flogged. Bad stuff happens because good men do nothing.

    --
    TCAP-Abort
    1. Re:When you gag the enginers ... by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Playing devils advocate here

      However the engineer, is often overly cautious, to the extreme, and sometimes have a fit if they don't get there way, and having engineers over exaggerating to get their point across isn't unheard of.

      The words seem to be "Power Words" terms that get people to agree without only on an emotional basis. So an engineer can use them to get his way, without really backing himself up. And if his idea gets rejected and the media gets their hands on the email, there is a huge PR problem, where the email is taken out of contexts.

      Lets just say this discussion was about the vanity mirror, the engineer wants it to be bolted on, vs. a plastic clip. His design is superior because the bolts will last longer. However other engineers find the plastic clip is good enough, and looks better. The engineer who proposes the bolts may fill a bit annoyed that they went with an other design. So he may complain to protest his point, and over emphasize the risks of the plastic clips, and toss in a few of those power words. To try to get his way. Then a few years down the line, there is an unrelated problem with the car, and there is a law suit. They find emails from an engineer discussing doom and gloom. Now the media will have a field day with that. Even though it was unrelated.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:When you gag the enginers ... by bigpat · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Exactly. The Thiokol engineers knew that the air temperature at the launch pad was below the lower range operating temperature of the O Rings which was 40 degrees (or 50 degrees for the system as a whole). The O rings themselves were certified down to 40 degrees but the engineers were bullied by management who wanted proof that the system would fail rather than the other way around and then when the engineers couldn't prove that it would fail they were overruled. I think the comments that it would be "away from goodness" was just a really impotent way of saying something like "there was a potentially increased risk that the rocket would explode that can not be quantified because of lack of data", but saying the rocket might explode in such blunt language was probably a quick ticket to being fired shortly afterwards and the engineers probably knew that.

      Language matters and the fact that GM was more worried about getting sued than about engineers accurately conveying concerns over safety is damning. GM is supposedly a new company after bankruptcy. Is it?

    3. Re:When you gag the enginers ... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Please explain how one gets from broken plastic clips on a vanity mirror to "rolling sarcophagus" in a way that wouldn't make any other engineer's (let along lawyer's) eyes roll.

      Yes, engineers can become short-sighted, over-exaggerate and sometimes use immoderate language, but in general, I think you'd find less of that in engineering ranks than in any other department in the company.

      --
      That is all.
  6. So how to report an actual problem? by Immerman · · Score: 5, Funny

    Rejoice! The fuel tank exhibits a delightful ability to consistently emit large cheerful conflations of thermal exuberance in response to mild percussive excitation. We recommend modifying the roof-rack to double as a full-length barbeque grill to maximize the occupants appreciation of this fortuitous feature.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    1. Re:So how to report an actual problem? by NatasRevol · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's about the best MBA-speak I've ever seen.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    2. Re:So how to report an actual problem? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Synergies"? Nope.
      "Paradigm"? Absent.
      "Holistic approach"? No.
      Dude, there isn't a "proactive" in there anywhere.

      Now, if you'd have said this was a press release from Pyongyang, I'd have agreed with you.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    3. Re:So how to report an actual problem? by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Funny

      And no "cloud" either, so he ain't no consultant material.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:So how to report an actual problem? by WheezyJoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Lawyer speak. They are trying to make it difficult for investigators to find incriminating or "smoking gun" evidence through a word-search on their electronic documents (such as when they are forced to hand them over on discovery or under subpoena, or else leaked by a whistleblower or hacker).

      --
      Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
    5. Re:So how to report an actual problem? by Belial6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yep, although if I was on a jury, I would see that list as evidence GM had premeditated any deaths caused be safety problems as well premeditated hiding evidence from the court.

  7. Thank Ralph Nader by tomhath · · Score: 3

    The list is just examples of words a lawyer will latch onto. For the same reason doctors are instructed to never say they're sorry for a less than perfect outcome; it can be presented to a jury that they admitted guilt - whether they intended it that way or not.

  8. Low power to education ratio by pefisher · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sometimes it seems that engineers have the lowest power to education ratio of any profession in the US. Lawyers and bean counters seem to spend their days making sure that any good that might be done by engineers is preemptively neutralized.

  9. Poorly worded headline by damn_registrars · · Score: 3, Informative

    The summary goes so far as to tell us that it is Engineering employees who cannot use those words in specific types of communications. People outside that division can use those words, and people inside that division can use them in communications that are outside that list.

    GM has enough problems on its own without people distorting their message to make them sound worse than they are.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  10. Last Week Tonight: GM Ad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6IZ2TroruU

  11. It's the lawyers by LarryWMSN · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you've ever been deposed as part of a lawsuit, the lawyer will go through every email and key on those particular words to present them is the worst possible light. I had to go through this once and spent three days, basically, justifying every word I used. Now when a customer comes to me and says they have a problem or something is not working, I will ask, "what behavior are you expecting to see and what are you seeing?" When we resolve the "problem", we simply say they should see the expected behavior now and please get back to us if they don't. It sucks but that's the reality.

    GM definitely knew they had problems and didn't fix them, but I'm sure there were many emails that were unrelated to their intentional disregard to the known problems that they had to defend along the way. Every little sentence or word that someone has to justify means more time with the lawyers racking up fees. You can't skirt around real problems with the change in words, but it makes it harder for the lawyers to bring in unrelated or insignificant facts into the mix.

  12. Re:The person who made the ppt was immediately fir by NonUniqueNickname · · Score: 4, Funny

    Someone complained and HR agreed that he intentionally stopped short of making the list an even 70. Fired for sexual harassment.

  13. Nice view from the cheap seats? by sjbe · · Score: 5, Informative

    I prefer companies that are open about their problems than companies that try to hide problems with "disguised words".

    Easy to say when you are not the one at the pointy end of a multi-billion dollar lawsuit. Lots of people have plenty of courage in a semi-anonymous internet post. While I agree with you in principle the way the laws are written it isn't nearly as simple as you or I think it should be. As much as I'd like to see engineers speaking freely about problems, the consequences of doing so can be catastrophic when they don't know what they are doing. And I don't know too many engineers who are up to date on their product liability law.

    Fact is that NO lawyer worth his retainer would agree with you. The number of ways in which employees can get a company in serious financial trouble through even the most honest attempts to solve problems is HUGE. Employees can agree to contracts, "admit" to wrongdoing (even when there wasn't any), etc. There are VERY good reasons why companies tend to only let a few, carefully selected people who know what they are doing speak for the company. I've worked as an engineer at a large auto company and I had to get special permission to give a technical talk just due to the potential liability and trade secret issues involved.

    1. Re:Nice view from the cheap seats? by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As much as I'd like to see engineers speaking freely about problems, the consequences of doing so can be catastrophic when they don't know what they are doing.

      This should not be so. The law as it currently stands promotes thes kinds of irrational, destructive practices and behaviours. We need laws that punish engineers who obfuscate, and which protect engineers who speak openly and honestly.

      The law is a tool which can shape the morals and behaviour of human beings. At some point in the last 30 years, the West has completely forgotten that the law is a tool for shaping public ethics and morality, and has instead regarded it as a pen an paper RPG which can be gamed, min-maxed, and generally ruined in spirit by twisting the meaning of its letters. The degeneracy of our insitutions, private and public, has its roots in the degeneracy of the courts and legal professions and their practices.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    2. Re:Nice view from the cheap seats? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I prefer companies that are open about their problems than companies that try to hide problems with "disguised words".

      Easy to say when you are not the one at the pointy end of a multi-billion dollar lawsuit.

      GM completely deserves this lawsuit, they brought it on themselves. They saw problems, and they decided to ignore them. It's not really the engineer's fault for calling a problem a problem, right? That would be like a programmer not being allowed to refer to bugs as bugs. I once worked with a programmer who never had any bugs, his programs simply had "anomalies" that he could neither figure out the cause of nor fix. He didn't last very long.

      It's the classic fomula - GM can either pay for the recall, or pay individual settlements as they come in. If the cost of the recall is expected to be higher, than they don't do the recall. They gambled on that and lost, even though lives were at stake they decided to not do the recall until the pressure was on them. Now they are on the hook for all of the lives lost when they could have informed the public and recalled the cars. Some policy of not using words like "problem" is just a way for them to try and weasel out of their liability (and it is their liability).

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    3. Re:Nice view from the cheap seats? by HeckRuler · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is +5 insightful?

      Easy to say when you are not the one at the pointy end of a multi-billion dollar lawsuit.

      Yeah, the lawsuit makes it even easier. But as a potential customer I too prefer companies that don't feel the need to censor their own employees from talking about the products they make.

      Let me make that clear: A healthy company that makes good products should be confidant that their employees can bitch and moan about whatever failings they can find with the product and still know that the product is well made, or at least that the problems have been dealt with correctly.

      If the public comments of the employee are brought up in court, the company should be able to justify those comments:
      "Yes your honor, Mr. Bob called the transmission of leaky cock-sucking sonnovabitch, and that falls in line with our public announcement on April 3rd about the a potential recall and memos to our dealers. There are problems and we dealt with them"

      As much as I'd like to see engineers speaking freely about problems, the consequences of doing so can be catastrophic when they don't know what they are doing. And I don't know too many engineers who are up to date on their product liability law.

      They're the engineer working on the problem, they are THEE expert on the subject. The company is liable for problems with the product. Not just problems that are found and proven in court, they are liable for ALL problems. The fact that the engineer might show where those problems are just brings such things to light. If you're operating with the presumption that a lot of shit and crap product will simply never be discovered, then you're running a scam and lying to your customers.

      Fact is that NO lawyer worth his retainer would agree with you.

      A lawyer wouldn't agree that companies trying to cover up their failings are shit? What?
      I think you're trying to say that no lawyer would want engineers saying anything to anybody. That makes sense as it makes their job easier. If a lawyer ran the business, all communication would go through the legal department. But it does nothing to give me faith in the output of a company. Indeed, the deeper the lawyers have their hooks into a company, the less I trust said company.

      There are VERY good reasons why companies tend to only let a few, carefully selected people who know what they are doing speak for the company.

      You're right, but only from the perspective of the quarterly profits and legal fees. And that dominates our corporate culture. And so every company has an iron curtain between the makers and the users.

      There are also very good reasons to let the engineers speak freely. It makes for a better product when the product managers know that anything they try and rush out the door will quickly come to light and reflect poorly on them. It lets the engineers have a bit more pride in what they do. It let's engineers make the thing that customers want. And it would make customers have more faith in the product and they'd BUY MORE. Unless, of course, the product is shit.

  14. NOT emails & memos. by asylumx · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to the WSJ article that the AOL article is "borrowing" from (and sensationalizing) these limitations are only applied to "documents used for reports and presentations."

    That's bad enough, but we really don't need to discredit them even more for limiting their employees ability to communicate with each other (which they haven't done). They are simply trying to keep emotion out of the official reports & presentations and stick to the facts. I actually don't blame them for trying to do this.

  15. It's not a strict list by jones_supa · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's a troll headline. Guys, it's not a strict list. Someone just crafted a bunch of examples for guidance. A few of those are even made tongue in cheek, such as "rolling sarcophagus".

    The another page of the guidelines shows the general idea: just try to use neutral and professional expressions instead of scary words.

    Nothing to see here, please move on...

  16. Re:The person who made the ppt was immediately fir by Anubis+IV · · Score: 4, Funny

    I remember this one odd incident from my college days. I and my roommate--who DJed for the college radio station and from whom I had picked up some random trivia about the business--had a friend over to hang out. We were shooting the breeze, and at some point my roommate excused himself to use the restroom. The friend and I kept chatting for a bit, until we found ourselves wondering just what exactly was going on in the bathroom, since we could hear my roommate laughing like crazy while presumably still occupied with relieving himself.

    As it turns out, he was laughing because in all the years he had known me, he had never once heard me cuss, and yet, while in the restroom, the one thing he could hear from the conversation was me releasing a string of profanities as if I was a seasoned sailor. What he didn't know was that I never really had any problem with using expletives in a purely referential manner, and that our friend had asked if I happened to know the list of words that were banned on the radio.

    Which is to say, no exceptions. ;)