Surface Pro 3 Has 12" Screen, Intel Inside

Or... by MightyMartian · 2014-05-20 05:03 · Score: 3, Informative

Or I can go buy a notebook for $300, keep my Nexus 7, and not shell out huge amounts of money for one big fucking tablet.

--
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.

Re:Or... by CastrTroy · 2014-05-20 05:11 · Score: 4, Informative

Yeah, but then you couldn't carry your entire desktop with you wherever you want. The Surface 2 already had enough power to be a desktop replacement to all but the most demanding users. You can connect 4 monitors to the Surface Pro. Plug in a USB keyboard and mouse and most people wouldn't need another computer. If I had the cash I would definitely just buy Surface Pro and forget all about having separate desktop/laptop/tablet. I got the Surface 2 (not pro), and even that has allowed me to completely forget about my laptop and desktop unless I need to do some actual work. Surfing the web, watching videos, listening to music. I use my Surface for all of that. As far as home use goes, if I wasn't a developer, I probably wouldn't even need a "proper" computer.

--

Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Re:Or... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-20 05:22 · Score: 3, Interesting

Microsoft had to develop a a power Surface or face losing the table and desktop world. Microsoft's control of the desktop is an illusion that we all believe. The minute most people realize they don't need Microsoft-specific tools to do what they do, Microsoft is sunk.
Likewise, Google and Apple have a limited window (no pun intended) of opportunity in which they can dethrone Microsoft. With the introduction of this tablet, they may have missed that opportunity. All Microsoft needs is a tablet to be "good enough."
Re:Or... by Penguinisto · 2014-05-20 05:24 · Score: 3, Interesting

Wait, wait, wait... first you assert that he's not able to carry around his "entire desktop" wherever he wants, then you go on to say:

I got the Surface 2 (not pro), and even that has allowed me to completely forget about my laptop and desktop unless I need to do some actual work
...and go on to talk about how you don't even need a computer if you didn't have that whole code-writing thing to bother with. So, well, which is it?
Meanwhile, the reason I originally wanted to say something: With VPN and RDP/SSH, I can carry around entire effing servers wherever I want when I'm traveling, and access them from my smartphone if I wanted to - so even that one argument of yours is rather moot.
(Now in my typical use case, I doodle in CG/3D artwork when I travel, and they ain't made a tablet yet that could render even a single frame w/o sucking the battery dry, so I carry around an MBP.)

--
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Re:Or... by smash · 2014-05-20 05:33 · Score: 5, Insightful

Surfing the web, watching videos, listening to music: you can do all of that on an iPad 1. How is this a selling point for an $800 tablet again? The whole point of a Windows tablet (@ $800 price point) for most people is that you can use it to do actual work. If you're needing to pull out your laptop or go to your desktop for that, the device is missing the mark.

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Re:Or... by CastrTroy · 2014-05-20 05:35 · Score: 3, Informative

The Surface 2 (not pro) is the ARM version they sell for $500. The Surface 2 PRO or Surface 3 PRO are the Intel x86-64 versions which will run any standard Windows software. I have the ARM version, and even that's enough provided you are just browsing the web and doing a few other small tasks. If you get the Surface PRO which comes with an Intel x86-64 processor, you can run full Windows, and all the applications you'd normally run on Windows. You could use it as your regular computer.

--

Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Re:Or... by Missing.Matter · 2014-05-20 05:41 · Score: 3, Informative

He said he does all that with the Surface not Pro, starting at $299.
Re:Or... by Shadow99_1 · 2014-05-20 05:52 · Score: 2

I do everything from coding to writing presentations or documents and any other business related tasks on my little 9 inch 3 year old Asus Transformer Tablet. Sadly gaming is the one thing I see a lack of on my android tablet, most games require the internet to work and want to suck my wallet dry nickle and diming me. I tossed my laptop as anything other than a video playback device when I'm at home (instead of using a TV), so I can watch something while doing other tasks on my desktop... Most of which is gaming really. I don't think the Surface 3 Pro is going to redo my thinking on use cases for a tablet, the only thing it might add is gaming, but that is best with a keyboard+mouse or a controller and I may as well just use a desktop for that price instead.

--
we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
Re:Or... by robbyb20 · 2014-05-20 06:17 · Score: 2, Interesting

There are some people who actually prefer Windows(7, not 8) to everything else.
Tried Linux in early 90s, not the best experience.
Tried Mac in 2013 for 6 months, not an awesome experience. Never freed up large amounts of memory unless i did it manually, adobe products temp files took up 130gb and not intuitive to find and delete, little things like single clicking on a long file name to see the whole file from the desk top or even finder was impossible. That was important to me since my photo file names are usually pretty long(Latename - date - sequence). It didnt work for the way that "I" work so it wasnt an option. Plus, bought the MBP maxed out for 2500, couldnt sell if for more than 1300. Complete waste of money and time for me.
Tried Ubuntu on a side laptop 2 months ago and for the life of me couldnt do anything but look at the internet. To get Steam to work properly, i had to install a bunch of other libraries that werent intuitive to find. This is important for those of us that would like to use a system but out of the box, cant do it with out further additions just to get certain programs to work.
Guess where im back at? A freshly reformatted windows 7 box and no complaints from this user.
Sorry if this post seems like its directed towards you. It was mainly for the comment about people realizing they dont need microsoft specific tools and dumping them and wanted to point out that even tho I dont NEED microsoft, i still prefer them.
Re:Or... by symbolset · 2014-05-20 06:27 · Score: 2

Then there's the rest of us. As the campfire turns to embers on our Amazon trek we like to whip out a PC and do some intense architectural design way out beyond cellular range.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Re:Or... by immaterial · 2014-05-20 07:36 · Score: 2

Tried Mac in 2013 for 6 months, not an awesome experience. Never freed up large amounts of memory unless i did it manually, adobe products temp files took up 130gb and not intuitive to find and delete, little things like single clicking on a long file name to see the whole file from the desk top or even finder was impossible. That was important to me since my photo file names are usually pretty long(Latename - date - sequence). It didnt work for the way that "I" work so it wasnt an option. Plus, bought the MBP maxed out for 2500, couldnt sell if for more than 1300. Complete waste of money and time for me.
If you didn't like it, you didn't like it, and that's fine... you should certainly work using whatever tools you feel most comfortable with. But your specific points I don't get.

Why are you trying to micromanage memory usage? This isn't the 90's. The OS will free up memory when it is needed. Any memory that is just sitting around "free" is memory wasted. The best way to check if you're running into memory constraints is to check if the OS is using swap at all (Mavericks has a nice memory pressure graph too, though in 2013 you probably did not have Mavericks).

Adobe software sucks, but it should be cleaning up its own temp files except in rare circumstances. I've never had orphaned temp files in the decade+ I've been using Photoshop and Indesign. Still, if they're a problem, you only need to learn where they're stored once.

The easiest way to view long filenames is in list mode. If you're looking through a bunch of files with long filenames, it's stupid to do it in grid mode, where you're obviously constrained by the grid. The desktop itself is grid-mode-only, but the desktop folder can be viewed in a Finder window like any other folder. And if you must - hover your mouse over a truncated filename and the full thing will pop up as a tooltip (if you're navigating through the files with the keyboard, hitting enter or return will show the whole thing).

And your resale value - obviously this varies from place to place but a Mac about a year old should sell for at least 2/3 its original value - $2k or maybe even $2.2k would have been more than reasonable for a 6 month old Mac. 1/2 the original value is more common for a 2+ year old laptop. I have a number of friends who do the sell-and-upgrade cycle every year or two and it works quite well for them (though I personally don't find it worth the trouble). If you live somewhere where the local resale value is low, just use eBay. Based on the price, I assume this was your Mac, and now at >1 year old they're going for $1800.

Resolution by Andrio · 2014-05-20 05:08 · Score: 5, Interesting

Damn it, how is it phones and tablets keep getting these awesome high-rez screens, yet it's impossible to buy a laptop with anything better than 1366 x 768 for less than 1K?

--
The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.

Re:Resolution by Penguinisto · 2014-05-20 05:28 · Score: 3, Insightful

Damn it, how is it phones and tablets keep getting these awesome high-rez screens, yet it's impossible to buy a laptop with anything better than 1366 x 768 for less than 1K?
You get what you pay for, and when a laptop OEM goes cheap, the first thing to go is screen resolution. Bite the bullet and spend a the extra dosh for a good laptop. As a bonus, it'll last a lot longer - often long enough to give you a better ROI than the 2-3 cheaper laptops you'd be buying during the same time period.

--
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Re:Resolution by Missing.Matter · 2014-05-20 05:36 · Score: 2

What's not "proper" about it. They spent a good 20 minutes talking about how the new hinge and keyboard improvements make it easy to type on your lap. What else are you looking for?
Re:Resolution by smash · 2014-05-20 05:42 · Score: 2, Interesting

Because the componentry in a laptop costs more? You've typically got more ports, more storage, ram expansion, etc. And because Windows resolution independence sucks hard anyway. I'll bet they didn't show this 12" screen running any of the legacy windows apps you'll specifically want WINDOWS to run. Only windows 8 exclusive stuff...
Hitting win32 application widgets on 10" @ 1920x1080 on a surface 2 is bad enough. 2560x1440 on 12" will be even worse.

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Re:Resolution by LordLimecat · 2014-05-20 05:42 · Score: 2

Because you can break a single high-rez panel down into multiple smaller screens, but cannot stitch smaller panels up into a larger one? Manufacturing creates defects, and the larger the screen the greater the waste if a screen has a defect.
Re:Resolution by jandrese · 2014-05-20 06:09 · Score: 2

It's worse than that. This thing has a 3:2 screen. You know how many people would buy a laptop with a 3:2 screen and this many pixels? A lot. But laptop manufacturers are so in freaking love with widescreen now that it's just not going to happen. It's so frustrating. I've been on the hunt for a new laptop for a year and a half now, and nothing fits my needs. I'm not even asking for super low cost here. A $1000 or $1200 laptop would be totally fine, but manufacturers treat these tablet level displays as $2000 premium parts for some reason.

--

I read the internet for the articles.
Re:Resolution by Andrio · 2014-05-20 06:26 · Score: 2

I know, I'm just saying, it seems odd that you can get a tablet with a 2560-by-1600 resolution for 400 bucks, and yet you can't even get 1080p with ~12" laptops unless you venture into the 1K+ territory. It just doesn't add up.

--
The Internet King? I wonder if he could provide faster nudity.
Re:Resolution by jkrise · 2014-05-20 06:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

Microsoft seems a totally confused company at the moment. I bet more than 50% of all tablets are 7" screen size or less. The reason the iPad at about 10" is good is bcos of touch based apps for that platform.
12" is way too big for a tablet and $700 is about 3 times the ideal price point. This device will get hammered by Android tablets by the low-price customers; and anybody who can afford $700 for a tablet would close their eyes and buy the iPad which has 100 times more useful touch based apps than the Surface Pro.
The desktop OS is best navigated with a keyboard in Microsoft's opinion. The best Surface Pro apps are those designed for the desktop, such as Excel and Word.
Looks like a very confused company determined to throw another $1bn in a vain effort to get 2% marketshare in tablets. Gates or Ballmer or Nadella, nobody seems to have any clue about desktops, tablets or smartphones.

--
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Re:Resolution by jkrise · 2014-05-20 07:32 · Score: 2

Microsoft is saying they want to make a tablet that is good for content creation. That's why it's bigger. That's why it comes with a pen.
In my view, content creation is best done with keyboard, mouse and a desktop / laptop. What sort of content can be created with a stylus on a tablet? That's neither the best tools nor the most cost effective.
Cadillacs and Toyotas are both good at transporting people from one place to another. A 12" tablet cannot do most things possible on a smaller phone or a larger desktop.

--
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Re:Resolution by jkrise · 2014-05-20 08:25 · Score: 2

they're going after the laptop market.... This will sell ridiculously well in the enterprise.
The laptop is a very long-lived well-researched device that has tons of applications available on that form factor. Running MS Office on a tablet device will have users tearing their hair out and getting aspirin tablets to rid their headaches.

--
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Re:Resolution by NemoinSpace · 2014-05-20 14:10 · Score: 2

Incorrect. you don't know what ROI means.
You could buy a really nice 15" Macbook for $2600.00 or you could start with a refurbished Dell Latitude e6400 for $150.
If you invest the difference for a year, you could buy a better laptop every year for the rest of your life. In the end you would end up with several nice Macbooks and a house to put them in that isn't in your parents basement.
Learn how money works.

interesting.... by smash · 2014-05-20 05:11 · Score: 3, Interesting

... good to see that others have finally followed apple's lead (and google's with the chromebook) and realised that 16x9 isn't the be all and end all, and closer-to-square aspect can actually fit more content. It's not just about movies.

Pricing is reasonable, still totally NOT sold on the kick-stand idea, have run a surface 2 for a week and did not like. Would much prefer the ability to run it like an ipad with a touch cover on a desk, rather than vertical like a pc monitor or laptop.

That said, i think the biggest bugbear is going to be Windows 8. It doesn't work very well with touch either. Yes, as I said above I've run a surface 2 for a week and did not like. Will be interesting to see whether it can have other OSes loaded onto it, but really the other other available tablet OS with software support is android. And if you're going down that path you're competing with some very cheap hardware.

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.

Re:interesting.... by smash · 2014-05-20 05:30 · Score: 5, Insightful

After using a surface pro 2 for a week, i reckon Windows 8 actually works better with mouse and keyboard than touch by a long shot. The problem is the apps. There aren't any for touch that actually do anything productive. Shitty little app store type stuff isn't the reason I'm going to buy a Windows tablet. I'm going to buy a windows tablet because i want to do business stuff on an AD domain. If i wanted to run mobile app type stuff i'd just buy an iPad or Android tablet for half the price.

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Re:interesting.... by Penguinisto · 2014-05-20 05:31 · Score: 2

That said, i think the biggest bugbear is going to be Windows 8. It doesn't work very well with touch either.
True, but according to the commercials it'll turn you into one very badassed break-dancer/parkour/contortionist with awesome jazz hands...

--
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Re:interesting.... by Overzeetop · 2014-05-20 05:35 · Score: 3, Insightful

The problem with touch is that it's not really thought out by the software makers. There are exceptions. Bluebeam makes a PDF program for professionals that lets you edit and annotate. On a digitizer Win8 tablet, like this or my Sony Flip, fingers are used to zoom and pan, while the digitizer is used for writing on the screen. There's never a mixup between the two like occurs with an iPad, where even the best BT-linked styli are hit and miss (and still only work properly in special "aware" apps).
The biggest downside to W8 is the lack of ability to go all-fingers when you want to, but that would require touch-optimized apps for nearly everything, and the vendors just aren't feeling the need to go there.

--
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Re:interesting.... by ai4px · 2014-05-20 05:41 · Score: 4, Insightful

I used a surface pro for all of about 2 hours and returned it to the store. I was lined up to pay >$900 for a surface pro that didn't come with a keyboard. The touch screen in win8 isn't even smart enough to pop up an on screen keyboard when I touch a blank to type. I have to make the keyboard pop up, then move the screen around to see what I'm typing if the kb covers it up. Amazingly unintuitive. Couple this with a GUI that keeps funneling me into the puzzle pieces view... and trying to find apps that are not organized in alphabetical order..... again, amazingly unintuitive. Now they tell us it has a 3:2 aspect ratio? WhoTF is making these decisions?
Re:interesting.... by Missing.Matter · 2014-05-20 05:43 · Score: 2

That said, i think the biggest bugbear is going to be Windows 8. It doesn't work very well with touch either. Yes, as I said above I've run a surface 2 for a week and did not like.
How does it not work well with touch? You've used for a week, but I've got 2 years of experience using it on touch and it works fine. Care to cite any examples you encountered?
Re:interesting.... by smash · 2014-05-20 05:51 · Score: 3, Informative

Yup. those were the problems i noticed too - erratic touch keyboard behavior, unusable win32 application widgets at 1920x1080 on a 10" screen, etc. The 3:2 aspect is a plus though for a table tin my opinion - 16x9 form factor tablet just feel awkward and unwieldy - it isn't tall enough when used in landscape mode and isn't wide enough and feels too tall when used in portrait. 3:2 or 4:3 is a much better compromise for something that feels good to hold and has decent screen area.
The surface I used was an extended evaluation unit for work. I could have kept it for work use for "free" (work paid), but gave it back and went back to the ipad (primary work uses being VMware View, ssh, mail, etc.).

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Re:interesting.... by smash · 2014-05-20 05:58 · Score: 2

All of the windows apps I want Windows for are win32 and the widgets are un-usably small on 1920x1080 on a 10" screen. Try using Outlook 2010 for example.
The on screen keyboard pops up sometimes, sometimes does not, somtimes covers the win32 application I am trying to use.
The metro side of Windows 8 is good enough for touch, but the fact is that very few people want a windows tablet in order to run the apps available in the Metro UI. They want to run office and other enterprise apps. And currently there's no touch version of office, and the vast majority of the enterprise apps are Win32.
if microsoft at least implemented unpinch to zoom when in the desktop, things would be a lot better. But they didn't. I do get unpinch to zoom on an iPad running a windows desktop via VMware View.
Ironically - if you want to run Win32 applications on a tablet, the best touch-friendly experience is currently View running on an iPad.
Microsoft missed the boat massively on that. Microsoft: if you are listening - ADD THE ABILITY TO ZOOM INTO THE CLASSIC DESKTOP

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Re:interesting.... by Missing.Matter · 2014-05-20 06:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

More like...

SurfacePro3 - Intel® Core i5, 128 GB and 4 GB of RAM - $999
Extra - Surface Pro Type Cover $129.99
Touch Screen included
Digitizer included
Pen included
2160 x 1440 resolution display included
Total - $1128

MacBook Air - Intel® Core i5, 128 GB and 4 GB of RAM - $899
Keyboard included
Touch screen not available
Digitizer not available
Pen not available
1366 x 768 included. Hi-res display not available
Total - $899

It's 2014. A computer is not just CPU + RAM + HDD anymore. For instance, part of Apple's marketing of the MacBook air was how thin and light it is. Surface Pro 3 is even *thinner and ligher* than the Air. For someone looking for a thin and light device, thinness and lightness is part of the value proposition, and they might be willing to pay more for that.
Re:interesting.... by cbhacking · 2014-05-20 07:16 · Score: 2

Um, yeah I can, no shit? I mean, 1366x768 is the same resolution as the original Surface (RT, not Pro) and the limitations of that display are totally obvious when browsing the web or trying to view documents side-by-side. Forget serious coding (yes, I jailbroke the RT so I can run an IDE on it, but that doesn't make up for the resolution problem). I don't know, maybe you're half blind, but I'm 27 and have 20/20 vision, and quite happily use 1920x1080 on a 10" screen... 1366x768 on an 11.6" screen sucks. That's worse PPI than the much-derided Surface RT has, in fact!
Touch screen is great for web browsing, whether you're on a "real" desktop browser or a "Metro-style" or "mobile" one. Not great for Slashdot commenting, but great for actually browsing. It's also fine for things like reviewing a Word document or Powerpoint presentation. The touchscreen doesn't just *stop* because you're on the desktop.
The digitizer+stylus are brilliant for taking notes (including drawing diagrams and formulas) in OneNote, including (or even primarily) on the desktop. You can also annotate PDFs. For engineering types and for students, those are killer features; if you haven't tried them then you really should. For artists, the appeal is obvious: a high-precision pressure-sensitive stylus that works on a reasonably large and high-res screen is, well, kind of a huge deal. I'm sure it's useless for *some* people, but it's not just outright useless (even on the desktop).
Your entire last line is so idiotic I'm not even going to respond to it except to say that it invalidates any other legitimacy your post may have had.

--
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
Re:interesting.... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-20 08:42 · Score: 2, Insightful

One is a laptop, and the other a tablet with a bunch of awkward doo-dads attached, right?
Re:interesting.... by smash · 2014-05-22 00:00 · Score: 2

Well, yes. There's no other selling point to buy a Surface Pro over any other tablet for the average joe. The major selling point is that you can use your existing windows apps.

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.

$299 and I'm in... by theodp · 2014-05-20 05:15 · Score: 2

...fuggedaboutit @$799

Re:$299 and I'm in... by smash · 2014-05-20 05:27 · Score: 3, Informative

You do realize you're getting a full blown intel core CPU here. This isn't in the same league as some cheap low power ARM cpu, it's much more powerful. You could realistically use one as a desktop replacement.

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Re:$299 and I'm in... by slinches · 2014-05-20 07:05 · Score: 4, Interesting

You could use it as a desktop replacement assuming you're not using it for anything that's computationally expensive, hook it up to a decent size monitor and add a keyboard/mouse. Although, if you're willing to do that, you could get a better spec desktop for ~$500 and still have $300 to spend on a separate tablet. There are advantages to each setup, but the former is a "one size fits all" solution, whereas the latter can be customized to the specific needs of the user.
My personal opinion is that the Surface makes too many compromises trying to be everything to everyone and it ends up being a poor value as a desktop replacement and is rather clunky as a tablet. That means that the market is limited to people who highly value both size/portability and not having multiple devices and there's significant competition in that market from small laptops.

--
Knowledge Brings Fear

Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. by Doofus · 2014-05-20 05:27 · Score: 4, Interesting

Specs and prices are available in this file: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/press/2014/may14/05-20surfacepr.aspx.

Unfortunately at no price point will they go above 8GB RAM.

I'll pay more for 16GB RAM! I guarantee other people are out there waiting for the 16GB model. Please MSFT, manufacture a 16GB RAM model.

--
If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; ... it invites anarchy. - Brandeis

Re:Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. by Doofus · 2014-05-20 05:30 · Score: 2

Posted the wrong link.

Spec file here.

--
If the Government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; ... it invites anarchy. - Brandeis

Re:"and a docking station that supports 4K video" by smash · 2014-05-20 05:34 · Score: 2

Depends what you're doing. Despite what the internets would have you believe, intel HD is fine for 4k display if you don't plan on running 3d applications.

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.

A decent machine by FrodoOfTheShire · 2014-05-20 05:35 · Score: 2

I already own an Acer Iconia 11.3 in tablet with Core I5 chip, which I bought to view Google Play magazines that didn't display well on my Nexus 7. The Iconia tablet turned out to be a fantastic tablet that I'm very happy with. The new Surface Pro 3 seems very appealing to me as well, and has great specs. My only problem is that when you go from the 64GB model to the 128GB model they charge an extra 200 dollars. A 128GB SSD drive goes for about 100 dollars, so we are talking about a 50 dollar increase in parts that they are charging 200 dollars for. I'd want the 128GB version of the tablet, but I won't buy it when they are gaming the prices like that. I just hope the competition starts putting out more large form windows 8 tablets that are reasonably priced.

Re:A decent machine by pushing-robot · 2014-05-20 06:05 · Score: 4, Interesting

Yeah, comparing this to "the Apple tax" on their similarly-specced MacBook Air:
i5-i7:
Apple $150
Microsoft $250
4GB-8GB RAM:
Apple $100
Microsoft $100*
128-256GB SSD:
Apple $200
Microsoft $200*
(*MS combines these into one upgrade)
256-512GB SSD:
Apple $300
Microsoft $400
It's pretty bad when Apple's upgrade prices look reasonable by comparison.

--
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?

Re:Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. by jeffmflanagan · 2014-05-20 05:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

A tablet may not be the best place to run virtual machines or servers, and nothing else really requires more than 8GB of RAM. Win 8 will run very well with 8GB.

This is x86, not ARM by tepples · 2014-05-20 05:36 · Score: 4, Informative

Don't forget this thing is all locked down at the BIOS (UEFI) level

How so? As I understand it, the rule with Windows 8 is that on ARM, the manufacturer MUST NOT allow the end user to modify Secure Boot, but on x86, it MUST. This product is x86 according to the summary

Re:Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-20 05:39 · Score: 3, Informative

Copypasta:

Technical specs
Operating system
- Windows 8.1 Pro
Exterior: Dimensions
- 7.93 in x 11.5 in x 0.36 in
- Weight: 1.76 lbs
- Casing: Magnesium
- Color: Silver
- Physical buttons: Volume, Power, Home
Storage
- 64 GB, 128 GB, 256 GB, 512 GB
Display
- Screen: 12-inch ClearType Full HD display
- Resolution: 2160 x 1440
- Aspect Ratio: 3:2
- Touch: Multitouch input
Pen input
- Pen input and pen (included with purchase)
- Pen features 256 levels of pressure sensitivity
CPU
- 4th-generation Intel® Core i5-4300U (1.6 GHz with Intel® Turbo Boost up to 2.90 GHz) with Intel® HD Graphics 4400
- 4 GB or 8 GB of RAM — dual-channel LPDDR3
- TPM 2.0 (Trusted Platform Module — for BitLocker encryption)
-
- 4th-generation Intel® Core i3/i5/i7 Processor
- System memory: 4GB or 8GB memory options
- TPM 2.0 chip for enterprise security
Wireless
- Wireless: Wi-Fi 802.11ac/802.11 a/b/g/n
- Bluetooth 4.0 low energy technology
Battery
- Up to nine hours of Web-browsing battery life
Cameras and A/V
- 5MP and 1080p HD front- and rear-facing cameras
- Built-in front- and rear-facing microphones
- Stereo speakers with Dolby® Audio-enhanced sound
Ports
- Full-size USB 3.0
- microSD card reader
- Headset jack
- Mini DisplayPort
- Cover port
- Charging port
Sensors
- Ambient light sensor
- Accelerometer
- Gyroscope
- Magnetometer
Power supply
- 36W power supply (including 5W USB for accessory charging)
Warranty
- One-year limited hardware warranty

Pricing
Intel® Core i3, 64 GB and 4 GB of RAM $799
Intel® Core i5, 128 GB and 4 GB of RAM $999
Intel® Core i5, 256 GB and 8 GB of RAM $1,299
Intel® Core i7, 256 GB and 8 GB of RAM $1,549
Intel® Core i7, 512 GB and 8 GB of RAM $1,949
Surface Pro Type Cover $129.99
Additional Surface Pen $49.99
Additional 36W Power Supply $79.99
Additional Pen Loop $4.99
Docking Station for Surface Pro 3 $199.99
Surface Ethernet Adapter $39.99

VPN and RDP/SSH will run up a data bill by tepples · 2014-05-20 05:40 · Score: 3, Informative

With VPN and RDP/SSH, I can carry around entire effing servers wherever I want when I'm traveling, and access them from my smartphone if I wanted to - so even that one argument of yours is rather moot.

Can you get service on that smartphone for $84? That's how much I pay per year (not month) for my current phone because it doesn't have a data plan attached to it. A separate laptop lets me do work while riding transit without having to pay a huge data bill for VPN and RDP/SSH. For the price of a two-year data plan in this country, I could almost buy a Surface Pro 3.

Re:VPN and RDP/SSH will run up a data bill by Penguinisto · 2014-05-20 05:45 · Score: 3, Interesting

Can you get service on that smartphone for $84?
I do it for $45/mo. and that's in addition to making phone calls, receiving email, and playing games on it. Oh, and the company pays for that anyway because I receive corporate email on it too.

A separate laptop lets me do work while riding transit without having to pay a huge data bill for VPN and RDP/SSH.
True, but that was an example in extremis to prove the point that size doesn't really matter too much nowadays when it comes to mobile computing.

--
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?

Re:"and a docking station that supports 4K video" by Anonymous Coward · 2014-05-20 05:54 · Score: 2, Informative

Same experience here.
Can't speak about the mobile/ultramobile parts, but the HD4400 in a low-end desktop i3 is plenty fast enough for basic desktop compositing/video playback/... at 4k.
Now, if you don't want a slideshow in 3D games, easiest option is to just run them at 1920x1080 or 1280x720 fullscreen.
Those resolutions also happen to be HD and FullHD, and can be cleanly pixel-doubled/tripled to 3840x2160.
There's plenty benchmarks on the net for various games and haswell IGPs at HD and FullHD res.

Re: Can we install linux on it ? by Myria · 2014-05-20 06:02 · Score: 4, Informative

The Surface Pro, like any other x86 PC that comes preinstalled with an OEM version of Windows 8/8.1, is locked down with Secure Boot UEFI. However, Microsoft follows its own rules--the Surface Pro also meets their own requirement that the BIOS allows you to disable Secure Boot given physical access.

Also, I believe that the Surface Pro's preconfigured UEFI Secure Boot NVRAM contains the Microsoft "Third Party Marketplace" UEFI certificate, which if true would mean that the Surface Pro would out-of-the-box recognize, as an example, the Secure Boot-compatible GRUB2 on the 14.x x86-64 Ubuntu disks as legitimate. I don't have a Surface Pro to check this, however.

--
"Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager

On whose dime by tepples · 2014-05-20 06:03 · Score: 2

Can you get service on that smartphone for $84? That's how much I pay per year

I do it for $45/mo

Or $540 per year, which is $456 per year more than the voice-only service that I mentioned.

receiving email, playing games on it. Oh, and the company pays for that anyway because I receive corporate email on it too.

If your employer happens to be willing to pay the cell bill, a terminal that mostly gets web, mail, phone, and RDP might be ideal. But not everybody's employer is. Despite this, too many pundits have deluded themselves into thinking that such terminals are ideal for so many people that manufacturers should stop making affordable general-purpose computing devices with a robust offline mode. Besides, what happens to your personal mail and games when your employer decides to remotely wipe and reprovision your device?

that was an example in extremis to prove the point that size doesn't really matter too much nowadays when it comes to mobile computing.

Size matters for input. You can't type very fast or click very accurately on an RDP client running on your smartphone's 4 to 5 inch touch screen. And size also matters indirectly to the extent that device makers have traditionally been heavier-handed at enforcing lockdown on smaller devices.

Re:Why not a good ultra-book and a smaller tablet? by smash · 2014-05-20 06:11 · Score: 2

Why? Because if you go on a trip, you don't want to be carrying around 2 sets of cables, chargers, etc. You'll have to sync data between devices, two data plans (unless you tether one to the other, which is a crap way of working also). The whole selling point of the device is that you can do away with all that crap. The convenience over 3 years of ownership is surely worth a few hundred bucks if it comes down to price.

--
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.

Re:Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. by period3 · 2014-05-20 06:13 · Score: 2

A tablet may not be the best place to run virtual machines or servers, and nothing else really requires more than 8GB of RAM. Win 8 will run very well with 8GB.

Really? Virtualization and servers are the only applications you can think of that could possibly benefit from more than 8GB of memory?

Gaming isn't the only 3D application by tepples · 2014-05-20 06:13 · Score: 2

Perhaps the difference is that "the internets" understand how many tasks are related to "running 3d applications", leading to the pejorative "Graphics My Ass" for Intel's pre-Sandy Bridge IGP. This includes not only gaming but also things like Blender and your employer's favorite CAD program, as well as cryptocurrrency miners and other apps that use your GPU as a general-purpose vector processor.

Re:Gaming isn't the only 3D application by ericloewe · 2014-05-20 06:47 · Score: 2

a) CAD will be fine unless you're doing insanely complicated stuff
b) Rendering on the go is generally a bad idea. The idea is to edit on the go.
c) WTF? Why the hell would you want your tablet mining cryptocoins? Do you expect your refrigerator to cool your house?
d) GPU-accelerated apps that aren't happy with this kind of performance are few, mostly those from points a) and b)

Factor in the price of a data plan by tepples · 2014-05-20 06:24 · Score: 2

Get a server, and just use the tablet for what it is good at - displaying content processed elsewhere on the network.

Then the question becomes how much you want to pay a cellular carrier per month to move data between where you process it and where you view it. I explain further in my other comment.

Re:Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. by Missing.Matter · 2014-05-20 06:29 · Score: 2

"equivalent" Surface 3. Surface 3 has a touch screen, active digitizer, and is lighter and thinner with a larger display and more resolution. Hard to really enjoy that 1366 × 768 display compared to 2160 x 1440 on the Surface 3. I'll take all of the above $100 more, thanks.

Re:And Never A Linux Port by wbo · 2014-05-20 06:34 · Score: 2

Don't forget this thing is all locked down at the BIOS (UEFI) level

This is almost certainly wrong. The Surface Pro line is x86 and x86 PCs that carry the Windows 8 logo are required to support Secure Boot and allow the user to disable secure boot if desired.

The Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2 made this really easy - the option to disable Secure Boot was clearly labeled on the first page of settings.

Re:Drat! Still only 8GB RAM max. by edxwelch · 2014-05-20 06:42 · Score: 2

Actually, you are right. Having more than 8GB in fact makes your dick bigger

Another Microsoft Albatross by erp_consultant · 2014-05-20 09:53 · Score: 2

Sure, the hardware specs look good. Nice processor, screen, etc. Light weight. Promises of great battery life.

But here's the problem...it's still running Windows 8 which nearly everyone seems to hate. Same thing with the phone. Nice Nokia hardware but shitty OS.

MS continues to make the mistake of comparing their hardware to the Mac hardware by only examining the hardware specs. They fail to look at it holistically. What's cool about Macs is that they run so smoothly. It's not about horsepower, it's about design. Something that is sorely lacking in Windows 8.

I predict that MS will sell quite a few of these in the enterprise market and almost none in the consumer space (well, almost none compared to the number of android and iPads that get sold).

What everyone seemed to want was a 7 inch Surface not a 12 inch Surface. Once again, MS fails to give consumers what they are asking for. Even Apple swallowed it's pride and came out with a 7 inch iPad. Why? Because it was obvious that consumers wanted it and tons of android tables with that form factor were flying off the shelves. So Apple was late to that market but at least they had enough sense to realize that they had made a mistake.

MS still has that monopolistic mindset. They don't seem to want to listen to what people want. They send out product after product to the marketplace only to lose millions of dollars on it and abandon it shortly thereafter.

What MS desperately wants to stop is the notion that you can get everything done without using any MS software or hardware. And that day is rapidly approaching if it's not already here. This new Surface will do nothing to slow that down.

Re:Can we install linux on it ? by exomondo · 2014-05-20 11:55 · Score: 2

Yes you can, you have always been able to with the Surface Pro line, it's a PC.

a novel 3:2 aspect ratio by l3v1 · 2014-05-20 18:00 · Score: 3, Funny

"a novel 3:2 aspect ratio"

Yeah, it's so invigorating to see what novelties this new age of innovation in computing produces.

Next they will present the novel larger version of it, that you can put on your desk for viewing stuff.

--
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.

Slashdot Mirror

Surface Pro 3 Has 12" Screen, Intel Inside

61 of 316 comments (clear)