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FCC Gets Go-Ahead For Plan To Expand Rural Internet Access

The FCC's plan to use fees collected from big telecom companies to expand Internet infrastructure in rural parts of the U.S. was given a green light yesterday in Denver, by the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals. Those telecoms maintained that the FCC's mandate did not extend to using the money to pay for Internet service, but a three-judge panel dismissed their challenge. From The Verge: "The FCC originally pitched the program as part of the Universal Service Fund in 2011, noting in a report a year earlier that approximately 14 million people did not have access to broadband. The Connect America Fund aimed to use a portion of customer bills in other areas of the country to build out broadband infrastructure, including cellular data networks in those areas. That would begin with $300 million at the start, and up to $500 million as part of an annual budget."

28 of 156 comments (clear)

  1. Yes! by jest3r · · Score: 5, Funny

    The FCC is soooo awesome for doing this!

    Finally they stood up to the telecoms and now I trust them completely to ensure that the Internet will be free, open and available to everyone.

    I've never understood the hate as of late.

    1. Re:Yes! by Bengie · · Score: 2

      Yeah, screw those farmers! I say we just ban farming in general. Just grow your own food.

    2. Re:Yes! by satsuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      With that mentality, the US would never have completed rural electrification nor rural telephone service .. with a net effect of some parts of the US having never gotten out of third world nation conditions.

    3. Re:Yes! by MBGMorden · · Score: 4, Informative

      Because property taxes on rural land doesn't subsidize services for people that live in the city, amirite?

      I work for a local government and am heavily involved in the property tax process. I'm sure like all things it varies by state, but here (South Carolina) I'd say that the urban subsidizes the rural even on property taxes.

      For one, there's the plain and simple situation that large tracts of rural land are worth much less per acre than land in the cities. A 0.25 acre lot in town might be $30k whilst land out in the woods is less than $10k per acre.

      Secondly, large tracts of agricultural land used for crops or timber are given an EXTREME tax break. Most of them pay taxes on less than 5% of the actual value of the land.

      And last, serious tax breaks are given to "owner occupied" residential properties. Owner occupied properties are far more common in rural areas. Its not uncommon in the urban/suburban areas, but there are far more rental properties and such that end up paying nearly twice as much in property taxes.

      I know in our specific locale its been an area of concern lately that a small urban area that is less than 10% of the size of the county generates more than 25% of the property tax revenue.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    4. Re:Yes! by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So when everyone gives up farming and moves to the city where they can get internet, you'll be coll with that?

      That would be so much better than an extra $2/year for internet.

    5. Re:Yes! by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The FCC is soooo awesome for doing this!

      Indeed. I am so grateful that the FCC required me to pay more in order to subsidize the lifestyle choices of other people.

      I've never understood the hate as of late.

      Me neither. This is such a wonderful country. It would be so unfair if people were expected to deal with the consequences of their own decisions without coerced assistance from people that made more sensible choices.

      Those "other people" are generally poor, and didn't chose to live where they do. We're not talking about the dude that lives in the estate outside of town... he'd just get a cellular modem. Most of the people without internet service today are in the rural south, appalachia, the rocky mountains, Indian reservations (the ones that didn't sell out to the casino gods), the dakotas, etc...

      I understand that slahdotters are generally "me me me" but give me a fucking break. The small increase you'll see on your phone bill will pale in comparison to the increase later in your income taxes as all "those other people" go on welfare because they can't even access their local jobs website and there's no such thing as newspapers anymore. Crawl out of your miopic hole and view the world from somewhere more than 50ft from your doorstep.

    6. Re:Yes! by sjames · · Score: 4, Informative

      Probably because people actually can dig a well and a septic tank on their own and it works fine while internet is all or nothing unless you expect each individual to run a separate fiber to the nearest city.

    7. Re:Yes! by Strangely+Familiar · · Score: 4, Interesting
      You can't dig a hole in the ground to provide an internet connection, the same way you can with water and septic. For electricity, you could always buy a generator, although that is a much inferior solution than a grid connection. But you can't buy an Internet. The nature of a "net" is that it is cooperative and shared. It makes sense that millions of people would collaborate to connect themselves to the Internet, rather than taking an every man for himself approach.

      The telecoms lack even one electron volt of shame. Don't you think the main issue is that these telecoms filed a lawsuit to prevent millions from getting broadband connections? That their image is already so blackened, they don't worry how this might appear? How did rural folks become the bad guys for you in this story?

      --
      Join the IParty!
    8. Re:Yes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I get the worst of both worlds. I live in a rural area (average one house per 10 acres) on the very edge of a county that is considered part of the DC Metro area. I pay the relatively higher property taxes, gas taxes, sales taxes, have to get emissions tests on my car, pay high property tax rate on my cars etc. AND I have one cell tower in the area that gets me about 1 bar of signal, well and septic systems, my own propane tanks, power that is a single set of lines for miles that just ends at the last house with no redundancy. I couldn't get DSL because of the distance. I did finally get access to Comcast internet and I average over 100 down even at 8pm. I guess the node or whatever they are are not being shared with many people. If I lived 1 mile further down the road (same zip code still), I would be in a rural county and pay about 1/2 the amount in taxes. My own fault.

    9. Re:Yes! by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Oh horseshit. Do your research. 97 percent of farms in the US are family owned and operated. 2.2 million of them. Average farm family income is about 70K

      http://www.fb.org/index.php?fu...

    10. Re:Yes! by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Interesting

      97 percent of farms in the US are family owned and operated. 2.2 million of them.

      [Citation Needed]
      Your link just goes to an agricultural interest organization that doesn't cite anything.

      I found another random agricultural interest group that claims 60% of family farms are "hobby" farms that don't contribute meaningfully to the market.
      But you know what, it doesn't cite its sources either (PDF), beyond "USDA"

      Either way, my understanding is that family farms are increasingly shifting towards contract farming, which effectively makes the "family" aspect a meaningless distinction.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    11. Re:Yes! by whistlingtony · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I take offense at that "sensible choices" crack. It's a really !@#$ing annoying myth that poor people are poor due to their own choices. I know a lot of poor people that work WAY harder than you ever will. I grew up dirt poor. I got help from the government with food, education, etc. I got lucky, and made it, and I've payed back what I took in help, and then some...

      You're basically just putting other people down, and doing so against people you don't like. It's a sterotype, and a myth, and your attitude says more about your lack of empathy than it does about those non existant people that "didn't make sensible choices and don't want to deal with the consequences".

      I'm old enough to see that a VAST majority of people make pretty shitty decisions all the time, and that pretty much everyone has no idea how to live their lives. Everyone's making it up as they go along. Naturally, all of YOUR decisions are excellent ones, I'm sure. You've never had help from anyone in your whole life when things didn't work out.

      It's always "those people" over there that are ruining everything.

    12. Re:Yes! by whistlingtony · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Then go to some country where there are no taxes.

      Assuming you can find this mythical make believe country, it would be a shithole with no public infrastructure.

      you take for granted what your taxes buy you. ingrate.

    13. Re:Yes! by nadaou · · Score: 2

      some parts of the US *never have* gotten out of third world nation conditions.

      http://www.economist.com/news/...

      --
      ~.~
      I'm a peripheral visionary.
    14. Re:Yes! by whistlingtony · · Score: 2

      I need the post office, but I'm a small businessman who needs to ship things. I'm a job and wealth creator instead of a plebian like you. I quite like socialism for basic infrastructure. It enables me. You just take for granted all that you have due to "socialism".

      I don't want to live in a world where the employees i'm trying to hire can't read or write because they didn't get a public education. I don't want to live in a world where I don't have a postal service to get my supplies in and my goods out. I don't want to live in a society where I have to pay road tolls every mile because there are only privater roads. I don't want to do business in a society that has completely different laws in every fucking hamlet I try to do business in.

      I'm really starting to hate you small government anti socialist morons. You have NO IDEA what you're talking about. The world you describe is imaginary. It's never going to happen and you're dragging us all down into stupidity arguing about it. It's not going to happen, and I don't WANT it to happen. You don't either, but you're basically all ingrates arguing against basic services that you take for granted.

      Go live in a village in Afghanistan. No taxes, but some warlord will come by once a month to take some of your produce.You'll live in a hut cobbled together from sticks and mud, because no decent business selling modern construction equipment or supplies can possibly operate in that environment. Oh, and no electricity either... See what no government, no taxes, no infrastructure, and REAL THEFT are like.

      Argh....

  2. Ahh the real reason Net Neutrality is built by Billly+Gates · · Score: 5, Funny

    Fed: Here is some tax payer money. Now promise you will use it for rural Iowa where people pay $300 a month for a 640kb connection.

    ISP: Oh yeah we promise. Thanks Uncle Sam!

    Fed: Uh 3 years has happened where is the new infrastructure that the hard working tax payers paid for?

    ISP: NO! We do not want to spend it. Screw you! We gave it to the CEO and shareholders so we could keep our bonuses.

    Fed: What?! We had a deal. Why aren't you ...

    ISP: Oh look at that ... big Ku CLUNG and a huge bag of money lands ... I was wondering what happened with that money that the tax payers gave us. It appears to be on your desk sir

    FED: Oh then I see. Hmm perhaps we need a real expert to hear your case then. Someone with close ties and is on your payroll to tell us you need to steal more tax payer money?

    ISP: Ahh good idea. Hire me. I work as a lobbyest and as you know I am quite clumsy and keep dropping these bags of free speech everywhere I go too. Oh boy got to watch that.

    Fed: LOL. Ok we can't keep giving you money though. So what can we do

    ISP: I know lets rip off other people then. You see we charge too much as it is and we also charge people who want to host and stream. What if we tripple charge all over the place. Then more bags of free speech might just keep falling out if I am not careful.

    Fed: Praise Obama and worship Henry Reid so I can keep my job after 2014 and you have a deal!

    ISP: Got it ... shakes hands

  3. Re:Just nationalize it already by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When our telecommunications WERE "nationalized" (i.e., when Ma Bell was a regulated "natural monopoly"), we got very good service as a whole, with reasonable rates. When it was all land lines, that is.

    That was anything but a "fascist wet dream". Today's pretense of a market is, though. Obviously I prefer an open, competitive market but that's not what we have.

  4. Re:Ick. by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2

    v

    The people that feed you

  5. Agricultural Property tax breaks! by thrich81 · · Score: 2

    Given the enormous tax breaks given to "agricultural property" in Texas, I doubt there is any subsidizing at all going from rural to urban in this state. This is from 2005 (http://www.chron.com/news/article/Legislature-to-rethink-farmland-tax-breaks-1563193.php), but I don't think it has changed much since, "In suburban Austin, a 1,757-acre ranch owned by Michael Dell has what Travis County appraisers call a "well-managed deer herd" that reduces the ranch's market value of $74.8 million to an agriculture value of $290,000. "

  6. Re:So they admit that it should be run as a utilit by EmperorArthur · · Score: 2

    It sounds to me like they're finally admitting that this is a basic service that everyone should be provided with.
    I wonder how much longer it will take before they regulate it as such (as a utility).

    The thing is that the FCC (US government agency that regulates telecoms) can do that. It's what the whole Title II reclassification thing is all about. http://www.washingtonpost.com/... Which is why the lobbyists and congress are freaking out. https://www.techdirt.com/artic...

    --
    So lets pretend that we've just completed writing this code, as opposed to having just completed sabotaging it -Altera
  7. Re:Just nationalize it already by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Informative

    we got very good service as a whole, with reasonable rates

    How old are you? Are you old enough to remember the concept of "long distance"? Of paying $0.10/min - $0.25/min for the privilege of calling your friends and family across the country? Rounded up of course. Don't tell me Ma Bell had "reasonable rates". Their rates were highway robbery even with the technological limitations of those days.

    Innovation and regulated monopolies don't go hand in hand either. The theoretical underpinnings of what we now call DSL were well known in the 50s and workable technology was field tested by the 80s. It went nowhere because AT&T saw it as a threat, we can't sell dedicated data lines if we bring data and voice in on the same pair. That technology was left to collect dust on the shelf until DOCSIS was on the horizon and they realized they had a competitor.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  8. Re:Just nationalize it already by whoever57 · · Score: 3, Informative

    When our telecommunications WERE "nationalized" (i.e., when Ma Bell was a regulated "natural monopoly"), we got very good service as a whole, with reasonable rates. When it was all land lines, that is.

    Memory is often viewed through rose-tinted spectacles. Do you remember that SNL sketch, with the line "We're the phone company and we don't care"? Today, we have crony-capitalism, which isn't any better than fully regulated. The FCC rolled over when incumbents made it impossible for CLECs to compete. If the FCC had had some backbone then, there might be a competitive landscape now.

    On a related note, I don't understand why the broadcasters (NBC excepted, of course) are not up in arms about the proposed Comcast/Time Warner merger. The merger will give the combined entity more negotiation power against the broadcasters.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  9. Federal Aid Road Act of 1916 by sgt+scrub · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We understood that the Commerce Clause authorized Congress to construct interstate highways. The web is the interstate highway of the 21st century and the Commerce Clause authorizes Congress to invest in a functioning web for all U.S citizens just as much as it did for highways. The FCC doesn't have a vote.

    It is of the most fundamental importance that the United States should think in big pieces, should think together, should think ultimately as a whole.

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    1. Re:Federal Aid Road Act of 1916 by Kjella · · Score: 2

      What you said was totally correct but almost entirely irrelevant, the question here was the scope of FCC's mandate. Just because people start using email instead of snail mail doesn't mean the USPS's mandate changes. The ones who build interstates and manage cars don't automatically become the federal aviation administration when people started flying. I'm not in the US but the work I do is narrowly mandated by our parliament, sure they could change the law - actually it's an administrative provision pointed to by law - but until then we don't do anything that's outside our mandate, even when it seems like a logical extension to what we're already doing.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  10. Who builds it ... by PPH · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... and what do they build (and run)?

    Back when the Universal Sevice Fund was created for rural POTS, that was a heavly regulated and well defined service. So when the government mandated redistribution of funds for the telecoms (actually only the one back then) to build rural systems, they knew what they'd be getting.

    Broadband Internet service is poorly defined. Lacking any sort of network neutrality (and other common carrier regulations), there is no telling what exactly will get built and once built, what people in rural communities will be able to do with it.

    They should name this the Take The Money and Run Plan.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  11. That means some theft is justifiable by tepples · · Score: 2

    If you define "theft" to include tax, most adults would agree with the statement "some theft is justifiable".

  12. How to Lie with Statistics by oneiros27 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... the important part is to pick the metric that you like:

    First, we have our possible definitions of 'family farm' :

    1. Farms operated by indvidual families
    2. Farms owned by individual families
    3. Farms owned or operated by individual families that produce agricultural products for sale
    4. Farms owned or operated by individual families that aren't incorporated. (might be a death tax dodge, might be a huge corporatation that's tightly held)
    5. Farms owned an operated by individual families that qualify as a 'small business'.
    6. Farms under a given acerage.

    And we can further modify what we're analyzing:

    a. ...only those farms that produce agricultural products for sale.
    b. ...only those farms that produce food.
    c. ...only those farms that produce food intended for human consumption. (no sod or flower farms, feedstock for biodiesel)
    d. ...only those farms that produce food that contributes to the human food chain. (so allow hay, alfalfa and animal feed if grown for cows, but if the cows are to be dog food).
    e. ...only those farms that 'contribute meaningfully to the market'.

    Then, we have our metric, selecting the definiton of 'family farm' that's most advantageous of what we're trying to show, comparing "family farms" to either "corporate farms" or to "all farms":

    1. Percentage of the count "family farms"
    2. Percentage of the acerage of "family farms" 3. Percentage of the acerage used for farming in a given year.
    4. Percentage of the products produced by "family farms" (in tons)
    5. Percentage of the products produced by "family farms" (in dollars)
    6&7. Percentage of the food produced by "family farms" (tons / dollars)
    8&9. Percentage of the food sold by "family farms" (tons/dollars)

    Some of these, I'm not even sure which way the selection bias will be. (family farms might sell at farmer's markets and get a better price per pound ... or they might focus on herbs and things typically sold at higher margins that don't tend to be grown on a massive scale).

    But like anything, you run all of the different combinations, and pick the one that gives you the answer to support whatever argument you're trying to make.

    --
    Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
  13. Re:Check your history by whistlingtony · · Score: 2

    30 billion for 30 years is 1 billion a year. divide by 300 million americans... $3. Total. a year. Ok, I get that the site didn't get built. It might have. Not everything succeeds. There were probably a lot of studies, some decent research, work was done. it's $3 a year to pay for nuclear waste disposal. Stop whining.

    Yes, I know the population changed and my math isn't perfect. It's napkin math. You still made it out to be a huge theft. It's $3. You're an anonymous whiner.