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Chelsea Clinton At NCWIT: More PE, Less Zuckerberg

theodp (442580) writes "Among the speakers at last week's National Center for Women & Information Technology (NCWIT) Summit was Chelsea Clinton, who spoke fondly of the Commodore she received as a kid on Christmas Day in 1987. During the Q&A, Clinton was asked (Vimeo), 'What do you see as some of the right policies that could help put Computer Science — which is undeniably the most important 21st Century skill — into our classrooms?' To which the former First Daughter responded, 'I won't quibble with the fact that I think it's very important. I also think other things admittedly are important.' Such as? Aligning Computer Science with Common Core, for one thing ('Ensure that Computer Science is part of the definition of science'). Using state budget surpluses to hire additional physical education teachers for elementary and middle school students, for another ('For Computer Science, as any subject, kids that are well-fed with healthy food and who have been activated in their bodies will able to learn and retain information in any subject better than if they're not'). And, last but not least, 'continuing to tell stories of people that are not...people who don't look like Mark Zuckerberg as successful in Computer Science and technology.' NCWIT, by the way, was listed as a "major partner" on last December's Hour of Code, which arguably made Mark Zuckerberg the face of Computer Science for K-12 students in the nationwide campaign embraced by President Obama during CSEdWeek."

34 of 255 comments (clear)

  1. Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why do we care what she thinks?

    1. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Clinton rattled off a series of discouraging numbers that relate to tech education. The share of female computer-science grads has declined during the last decade, from 21 percent in 2001 to as low as 16 percent, a trend she finds “deeply challenging.”"

      Well female graduates from veterinary science programmes have been steadily rising to the point women now outnumber men in the practice of veterinary medicine. I dare say veterinary science is more difficult and demanding than any computer science curriculum. Who's smarter - women choosing a career in veterinary science or women not choosing a career in computer science? I'd say they're both smarter than most men pursuing a career in computer science which in most workplaces means some IT role where a science background is all but useless.

    2. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      We don't. She's just a mouthpiece who happens to have famous parents.

    3. Re:Wait... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not sure about the USA, but veterinary graduates in the UK have the highest suicide rate of any discipline. It turns out that most people who go into the subject do so because they like animals, and much of the job of a qualified vey (especially a newly qualified vet) involves killing animals. With that in mind, a career in IT doesn't sound so bad.

      Here, by the way, the veterinary school has the most unbalanced gender ratio of any department in the university (more so than computer science), but (as you say) it's female dominated. I suspect that the reason this is seen as of less concern is that our society is increasingly dependent on computers and decreasingly dependent on animals.

      I don't believe that an uneven gender ratio is necessarily a bad thing, but I do mind that we're not getting the best students in computer science, and when only around 10% of our applicants are female then it looks like there's a good chance that we're missing some very competent people.

      --
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    4. Re:Wait... by swb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not sure about the USA, but veterinary graduates in the UK have the highest suicide rate of any discipline. It turns out that most people who go into the subject do so because they like animals, and much of the job of a qualified vey (especially a newly qualified vet) involves killing animals. With that in mind, a career in IT doesn't sound so bad.

      And as it turns out, much of the job of new CompSci grads involves killing application systems and designing database entry screens. The question isn't why is the suicide rate so high for veterinarians, but why isn't it higher for CompSci grads?

    5. Re:Wait... by tommeke100 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There was a girl in our first year of CS who was a very hard worker, but just couldn't handle the advanced math.
      She switched to med school after she flunked and passed with flying colors.

      It really depends on what you take as basis for a 'tough' curriculum.
      Med school and veterinary school may require you to work 'harder'. But with CS and Math, if you don't get it, you just don't get it. No matter how hard you work.
      I wouldn't be able to do Med school though, I faint at the sight of a needle ;-)

    6. Re:Wait... by necro81 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't believe that an uneven gender ratio is necessarily a bad thing

      I have not particular evidence to back up this next assertion, but...

      Men and women utilize and consume technology is roughly equal amounts. Not just sitting in front of computers trolling facebook, but also driving cars, accessing medical care, communicating on mobile devices, pay taxes to fund the military-industrial complex, and burning through a whopping amount of energy in the process. So, to the extent that men and women are equal users of technology, I think it prudent to make sure they are equal contributors in technology. Put differently (and along the lines of your final statement) - if women aren't helping to develop new technology, then we're probably missing something important.

    7. Re:Wait... by kick6 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We're currently steeped in a very, very divisive society

      One could go so far as to say that society has already shit the bed, and what we're actually in is a heavily-policed anarchy.

    8. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      qualifications?!? When it comes to politics even I could run for president I'm over 35, born and live in the US, have never been impeached, and have never been part of a rebellion.

      What a dull life you've led. LOL

    9. Re:Wait... by gizmo2199 · · Score: 2

      "McCain picked Palin who is probably smarter than Biden"

      What evidence are basing this on? It took Palin 5 years and 3 different colleges to earn a BA (in communications). The totality of Palin's government experience before she became governor was 10 years as city councilor and mayor of a town of 5,000 in Alaska. Biden, in addition to a law degree, was a well-respected U.S. Senator for 40 years. He served on the Judiciary and Foreign Relations committees.
      Moreover, since losing, Palin has made some pretty questionable decisions regarding her public persona. Nobody takes her seriously as a political contender any more.

      --
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    10. Re:Wait... by MBC1977 · · Score: 2

      Aside from the questionably stupid|baiting statement, that Palin is smarter than Biden. One word stands out: quitter. She quit because she didn't want the job anymore. If your elected to an office and quit, you should never again consider running for office, much less attempt to offer any sort of discourse. I (and probably many other rational thinking individuals) will never look at you the same way again.

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      MBC1977,
  2. Role Models by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why, Chelsea herself demonstrates that there are options for people who don't look like Mark Zuckerberg. All you need to do is be born into the right family and you too can be Vice Chair of a foundation you basically can't be fired from.

    1. Re:Role Models by youngone · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Of course it means that she won't be a force for good. She'll be exactly what every member of the American ruling class is: a force for whatever is good for the American ruling class.

    2. Re:Role Models by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While we're at it, it's worth noting the other person mentioned in this headline, Mark Zuckerberg, is also part of the American ruling class, and acts accordingly.

      He was raised nearly from birth to fill that role, too, attending an elite private boarding school that's basically a finishing school for members of that class.

    3. Re:Role Models by bouldin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Can we please choose a role model for children in CS who is not ethically challenged?

      Zuckerberg may have escaped arrest when he stole passwords to build his hot-or-not website (he should have been arrested), but he was clearly caught red handed.

      Combine that with all the dishonesty and contempt for individual privacy he has expressed, and I would feel like a parental failure if my kids turned out like him.

  3. How is she relevant by Gothmolly · · Score: 5, Insightful

    She's just a political Kardashian, why do people pay any attention to her?

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    1. Re:How is she relevant by DigiShaman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because Americans love dynasties. Duh!

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:How is she relevant by ClickOnThis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      She's just a political Kardashian, why do people pay any attention to her?

      Well, her dad was POTUS, and her mom just might be the same in the near future. That, and she's intelligent and well-spoken (PhD in International Studies.)

      I don't think the Kardashian sisters can match the above.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    3. Re:How is she relevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because she is right. PE and healthy foods help to balance out the unhealthy sedentary lifestyle of a coder.

      And Zuckerburg sucks. I don't see how Facebook is worth 1/100th of what it is.

      But, as for how to teach CS, the whole system needs to be looked at. It works a lot better to focus only on one subject for 2 months instead of bouncing between classes first of all. Then you need to have interesting projects and challenges to solve. They need to be real world applicable. And then you need to have classes to teach the basics and some advanced techniques. And at the end, you go into how they can use computer software that they created in their other classes and in the real world.

    4. Re:How is she relevant by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Informative

      Because Americans love dynasties. Duh!

      It's weird. You go and found a country that forbids noble titles and state religions and you get the US. You head across the pond to the UK, and you've got a monarchy less influential than some congressional committee positions and a state religion that can't even get people out of bed and into church one day a week(and the remaining subscribers are greying out pretty dangerously).

      Not sure how that happened.

    5. Re:How is she relevant by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Informative

      He didn't say that 'power-seeking' was depraved, he said that two specific people were both depraved and power-seekers. Slight difference.

      Though, since you ask, exercising power over others is something of a necessary evil, so while I don't rule out the possibility of perfectly decent people who also hold positions of authority, I do tend to default to skepticism about the character of anybody who appears too fond of it (and if they treat it as theirs by right? Very. Bad. Sign.)

      Seeking to perfect power over the ever-troublesome natural world and self are, certainly, noble endeavors; but with power of the political flavor, the only honor is in exercising it as sparingly and judiciously as you can.

    6. Re:How is she relevant by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, I think she said the right thing. Too many of the politcal Kardashians keep saying things like "we need more knowledge workers". In other words, they want more workers, not more people who are genuinely interested in computers or technology or even science. More workers means more economic strength, which is good for the country but not necessarily the best for the actual people involved if they would be happier elsewhere. We're already glutted with computer workers who have little aptitude for it all. It's best to focus on the basics first instead of worrying about the electives.

    7. Re:How is she relevant by Libertarian_Geek · · Score: 2

      I have an idea... let's just make her Ambassador to Lybia and station her in Benghazi for a few years. If she does OK there, we'll see what difference it makes and if it improves her public image.

      --

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  4. Shove your "undeniably" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    'What do you see as some of the right policies that could help put Computer Science — which is undeniably the most important 21st Century skill — into our classrooms?'

    "Undeniably", technology buffoon? Scavenging for food and repairing shelters and small machines are much more likely to be the most needed skill in the not too distant future.

  5. uhh... by buddyglass · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...which is undeniably the most important 21st Century skill...

    Computer science is not a skill. Even if it were, however, I'd regard its status as undeniably the most important 21st Century skill to in fact be fairly deniable.

    1. Re:uhh... by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Interesting

      OK, after watching the movie, it was the interviewer who claimed that CS is the most important 21st century skill. Chelsea looked at the interviewer as though it was the stupidest thing she had ever heard, and then said, "uh.....it is very important, but there are other things that are also very important."

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  6. Re:CS is not IT by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    As best I can tell, the closest things to 'IT unions' are employer cartels (like the one that settled as fast as possible relatively recently, lest the discovery get really interesting). Despite any empirical evidence to the contrary, the employees have substantially bought the line that they are just too special and above average to be dragged down by obstructionist union thugs who worship only seniority.

  7. Re:collgle does not need PE class at full price by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    While many colleges offer (arguably unecessarily) cushy gym facilities, they also tend to price anything they can describe as a PE 'class' more or less the same as anything else with credit-hours attached, though obviously only some majors accept many or any such credit hours for anything being fulfilling distribution requirements, at schools where those exist.

    Now, I'm actually not sure if gym/coach staff are lower-paid than adjunct professors anymore; but you can pay some pretty silly prices on campus if you want some fairly minimal coaching or oversight, rather than just making things up in the gym; but that gets classed as a class. The base charges for whatever facilities are there, though, tend to either be low or Mandatory, so if self-directed is your thing, it's less of an issue.

  8. Re:General Betterment by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 2

    Points to Ms Clinton for asking that money be put to fundamental development and the general betterment.

    How sad that more people do not realize computers have brought "General Betterment" to more people than most inventions in history.

    Sanitation? Fresh water? Roads? Irrigation? Medicine? Education?

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    I am not a crackpot.
  9. She's great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    But Common Core is shit, and it's robbing children, notably poor minority children, of their education.

    What works? Letting teachers teach and putting the administrators on a tight leash.
    What doesn't work? Micromanaging all teachers, telling them how to do their job, and letting administrators run the show.

    Let's stick with what works. We don't need iPads in every classroom, we don't need to teach every kid C++, and we don't need bizarre curriculum revamps or biased and unproven testing methods like Smarter Balance.

  10. Re:I Don't see CS as being that important by cluening · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Computer science _is_ the math. If you ignore the math, you're ignoring the entire field.

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    Posted from the wireless couch.
  11. Re:Back at you. by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But interestingly enough... no matter how much smoke you blow, you failed to answer the question.

  12. Not. Rocket. Science. by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why do we care what she thinks?

    Because she is a visible public-speaking figure with the power to lobby for or against things. For better or worse what matters in this world is not what you know but your power to influence policy making. This is not to say knowing and ability to influence are mutually exclusive, nor I'm saying whether Chelsea Clinton is qualified to say what is needed or not in STEM education.

    I'm simply saying that if *you* (the generic you) do not care what a public speaker with the potential power of influence (directly or by political/family ties) says simply because some perceived or real lack of technical acumen, *you* are an idiot.

    It is like saying "why should we care what a Creationist politician thinks?" and then wondering why state legislation bodies keep passing idiotic laws regarding STEM education in public schools.

    Stupid, right?

    Against, this is not say whether Chelsea Clinton is onto something or is completely unqualified to speak about the subject, but more about an indictment in ./'s collective technotard arrogance and cluelessness on how the world operates. That your post actually gets modded as insightful is a pathetic example of that sad state of affairs among people who consider themselves techno-illuminated.

  13. Re:Back at you. by Sri+Ramkrishna · · Score: 2

    History is extremely relevant. If you don't chronicle your past, and learn from it, you're doomed to repeat it. You can learn a lot from how people used to do things.