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Firefox OS Powered Flame Available For Pre-order; Ships Globally
sfcrazy (1542989) writes "Developers need access to device running the platform for which they develop. Nexus was Google's reference device and now Mozilla is coming out with its own device. Mozilla has opened pre-order for Flame, its Firefox OS reference devices for $170 including free shipping."
Specs are, of course, modest: a dual core 1.2GHz snapdragon, 1G of RAM, 8G of flash, an 854×480 4.5" screen, and a 5MP camera. Now, if only they would release a device with a keyboard.
A physical keyboard is far superior to an on-screen keyboard, swype included. Too bad Blackberry sucks.
I can get a moto g for 179 $ that has more software, a quad core processor and a better screen. This won't cut it.
I'm a small developer ad there's no way in hel I'm paying $170 for a reference device for a platform nobody uses.
I'd rather wait and see how it farees against Android nd iOS (haha!!) and ONLY THEN buy a retail device that people actually use so I can test my software on.
Physical keyboard is more akin to a standard transmission. In theory more powerful and flexible,but for a lot of regular people, just kind of gets in the way.
Soft keyboards have gotten good enough I just stopped caring.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
You can get a JIAYU G4S for around $180
It has 1.7Ghz 8 Core CPU
2GB of RAM
1280x720 Display
13 MP Camera
So $170 for something with the specs of a under $100 phone seems lame.
Is this legacy of a design taking too long to come to market?
Only because something is newer than something else, it is not neccessarily better.
A Keyboard is still the fastest way to enter a text. Perhaps one day there will be brain implants that provide more throughput, but until then the keyboard will be the most superior way to enter information.
Still no support for AWS networks. Lame.
Sure it may be a comparative alternative to Android; but still, designed to help Adobe hurt the user, even if this hurt is minimized, rather than designed to let the user do what they need. I hear the Jolla is nice, any word on how it compares?
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
Only because something is newer than something else, it is not neccessarily better.
Great. Who made the argument otherwise? Me smells a strawman.
A Keyboard is still the fastest way to enter a text.
For some people. For many people it either isn't or isn't enough for them to care. Most people using a keyboard are slow, henpeckers not speed typists. Hence why consumers at large don't care.
Exactly. Most people are terrible typists so for them a hardware keyboard provides no noticeable benefit. The speed typists tend to forget that they represent a minority of people.
Good, glad you have. The wonderful thing is we can release different products for different people.
I'd still like a physical keyboard. Given the number of Blutooth keyboards about I know I'm not the only one. Just as I'd like a stylus. Yeay for differences!
Does Firefox OS support the MP3 format yet?
Then simply buy a bluetooth keyboard and be happy. If hardware keyboards were really as popular as you're trying to insinuate then there would be more phones that have them. The fact of the matter is that you're a niche minority not worth chasing.
Why is anyone still making devices with sub-300-dpi screens? Especially when you're trying to launch a new OS -- this is the best way to make your OS look like crap, even if it's otherwise great. Price is definitely not a show-stopper here; the ASUS ZenFone has a high-end screen in the ~$200 range, and cheap Chinese phones like Zopo have had them for a long time at much lower prices. If they're really worried about cost, scrap the 5 MP camera which is a complete joke when your screen is 0.4 MP...
Have you ever actually observed the average consumer using a keyboard? They are very inefficient typists regardless of whether they have a physical or software keyboard. Manual transmissions are also more efficient yet the average car owner prefers an automatic because a stick shift either provides no noticeable gain to them or not enough of one to be worth the effort.
1 year? 2 years? I really want manufacturer's to start having a public EOL date at launch. I'm tired of buying phones and having them go into no-update land...
Just FYI, the DRM is only being added to desktop Firefox. Not Firefox OS at this time (they did somewhat leave this open, but have no plans).
Soft keyboard s are a grate idea. I'm used in one rightly now add as you can sea, it workings 100% of the timetable. My co workings have commented one how much more understatement I am now that I have a soft keyboard. The auto correct never mind makes a mistaken! C
I have - all my old colleagues who had those old blackberries - looks pants, but held carefully in both hands, their thumbs whizzed about the little keyboard. They looked happy too.
And then we used to have ancient windows mobile devices, pretty shit and I used to laugh at the on-call engineers who had to carry them, but they all chose the fat ones with slide-out full keyboards (like the htc desire z) and they would tap out mails quite happily.
Most people get what they're told to have by the media. Its got a 200 megapixel camera, and so they want one, even though they only take pictures of themselves looking gormless or shots of their kids taken at a wonky angle. I would like one manufacturer to stop chasing the idea of being the number 1, and instead settle for making the different phone for people who want that kind of thing. The homogeneity of phones is not something to be proud of.
Could they be teasing us by giving us a hint of the future in the name? Kind of scary that all the names remind one of the book Fahrenheit 451.
Yeah, wanting a hardware keyboard on a cell phone isn't a bad thing. Sometimes function > form. My suspicion is that the old buggy whip meme used in this context is by an iphone worshiping ladyboy in a fedora.
Physical keyboards are nice in the sense that you have some god damn feedback about where you're thumbs are on the keyboard. there are occasions you'd like to be able to type something in a search box or dial a number without having to look at the phone. an onscreen keyboard doesn't do this.
Just because something is old does not make it automatically inferior.
A physical keyboard is far superior to an on-screen keyboard, swype included. Too bad Blackberry sucks.
It would also be fair to say a pen is far superior then a computer keyboard... and the statement would be just as accurate as yours. Try and draw a picture of a horse using your keyboard... yea, you could pull it off, but it would be a total pain and would look terrible. That probably summarizes every argument you'd have to backup your statement as well.
Just because you can do more with a tool, doesn't mean that tool is better for every given situation. For what I do on my phone, the touchscreen is the best tool currently out there. If you're doing stuff on your phone that requires a physical keyboard, you're using the wrong tool for the job... and they keyboards not what I'm talking about.
I have - all my old colleagues who had those old blackberries - looks pants, but held carefully in both hands, their thumbs whizzed about the little keyboard. They looked happy too.
Biased sample and unrepresentative of the average consumer. The average phone owner wasn't a crackberry user.
Most people get what they're told to have by the media.
*yawn* Not this stupid "sheeple" argument.
I would like one manufacturer to stop chasing the idea of being the number 1, and instead settle for making the different phone for people who want that kind of thing.
You had that with Blackberry who kept releasing phones with hardware keyboards. Their Q10 with a hardware keyboard was an abysmal failure.
is the word you wanted, no?
Yeah, wanting a hardware keyboard on a cell phone isn't a bad thing.
No one said wanting one was bad. The point is that the average consumer doesn't care about the theoretical benefits that they won't see.
Physical keyboards are nice in the sense that you have some god damn feedback about where you're thumbs are on the keyboard. there are occasions you'd like to be able to type something in a search box or dial a number without having to look at the phone. an onscreen keyboard doesn't do this.
This assumes that most people are touch typists. Most people are henpeckers who stare at their keyboards when typing. This is why hardware keyboards only appeal to a niche market.
Just because something is old does not make it automatically inferior.
And just because something is old does not make it better.
Exactly. Most people are terrible typists so for them a hardware keyboard provides no noticeable benefit. The speed typists tend to forget that they represent a minority of people.
Every time I read a statement like this, I think of this.
If only Brendan was at the helm I'd consider but this is just too fabulous to be taken seriously.
Physical keyboard is more akin to a standard transmission. In theory more powerful and flexible,but for a lot of regular people, just kind of gets in the way.
Soft keyboards have gotten good enough I just stopped caring.
I haven't stopped caring.....then again I still drive a manual transmission.
I assume I'm not alone in thinking if you order a communications device on-line, there is a slight non-zero chance of it being intercepted during shipment and tampered with by various TLAs.
Of course, I think the odds of this happening is still dependent on who you are. Say, for example, a Guardian journalist with a company-issued laptop.
I firmly believe this is why the GCHQ methodically destroyed certain specific areas within their laptops (not just the hard drives): they were obliterating the components they had tampered with during the initial shipment from the factory.
The thing is, we are talking about phones. So, in the form factor of a phone, a hardware keyboard would be at best adequate. Typing with 2 thumbs on a hardware keyboard is only marginally better than typing on a screen. And don't forget that the keyboard takes up valuable space. Either you end up with a smaller screen so the keyboard can be always accessible, or you end up with a thicker phone so that the keyboard can be hidden when not in use. Also, and maybe I've just had bad phones in the past, but the keys are always the first things to go. Especially when they are accompanied by mechanisms that let them fold or slide out. The current phone I have is the only one that hasn't broke, and it's because it only has 3 buttons, power, volume up, and volume down. Everything including the android buttons (menu, home, back, search) is input using the screen. Screens crack if you are careless, but that's going to happen regardless of whether or not you have a physical keyboard. Having no physical buttons means that it's ones less thing to worry about breaking.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
watch blackberry 10, it's more advanced and faster than android
Modest?
More like garbage unless they're planning on selling these things as children's toys or in developing nations.
As long as it interoperates correctly (cellular/network communications, app/application support, etc.) I'm all for it - but I'll be waiting to hear more than a few firsthand accounts regarding usability before I plunk down my hard earned cash for one.
Then again, my Android isn't exactly perfect. Neither is my daughter's iPhone. I don't know any Window phone users and I haven't heard a whole lot about Windows phone user experiences, but I don't get the impression that they're perfect either. Maybe with more competing options, somebody will move beyond "good enough" and at least try for "better".
Unless you're Japanese:
Mozilla has ensured that unlike Google devices, non-US developers won’t be deprived of the devices. The phone will be shipped free of cost anywhere in the world except for Japan
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
I've really been wanting to get a Firefox OS device, but sadly none of them support the frequencies for T-Mobile's network (which requires 1700) :(
Dang. Why is it that none of these devices are ever available on Verizon? Its the 2nd most popular carrier in the US, and yet we never get these straight-pay phones for it. Their "full price" phones you actually buy from them are prices basically at a premium/penalized rate to get you to renew the contract, while the $200-300 phones from Google and this are unavailable :(.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
That's why I don't own touch screen devices : the pen is missing, except for some very rare models (Surface Pro, and a Tegra Note maybe). They had pens in the 90s and the DS had one. It's more precise than using the finger, so it seems useful. Drawing and handwriting is fun and useful too. Let me handwrite on the things! I'd have basically unlimited "sheets", always accessible, backed up and transmitted where I want to.
In particular, you could do maths on it (which requires the ability to draw any arbitrary symbol or letter, and more)
Adding a keyboard to the design of a phone causes the production-price to go up, resulting either in a costlier product (i.e. less sales, since most buy the cheapest available), or lower profit.
As a result, the manufacturers are disinclined to make such devices, independently of there being a market for them..
Note: No saying that there is a notable market for phones w/ keyboard, only that it has to be a much-desired feature to warrant production.
Why should the minority's needs not be met? See Tyranny of the majority.
Speech to text works great with my rather bland general American accent.
True that, but not a phone keyboard. If I wanted to write a novel, at the very least I'd bring an ultra-portable. Heck, even long work emails would be tedious on a phone. So it's for people who need that capability in the form factor of a phone, which is putting an awful lot of focus on one particular need. If all I had was hay and no gas, a horse would beat a car. And if I was starving, I'd rather try eating the horse. I'd rather ride through a forest with a horse. What most people want to do is better served with a car though, just like soft keyboards are fine to write short messages like "five mins late" or "buy milk on the way home" and twitter. I mean it would be nice if someone wanted to serve your niche, but when you make it sound like a big product flaw just because they don't serve you, well... nobody cares that a faster horse would work better for you.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Nokia N900 does not suck and has a keyboard. Too bad Maemo is not developed anymore.
if your are targeting the 'average phone' this is a reasonable spec. Developing for the S5 only is a small market.
This sounds a lot like my samsung galaxy s2x (aka hercules). Bought it xmas 2012 for $150. It has 16G and 8M camera. The screen is 4.5 x 850ishx480ish Super Amoled+ and it looks fantastic. Seriously. It compares well the the wifes N5. Si far no lag.
Seems reasonable for a low cost entry to development to me.
Users demanded design around a finger because they would often lose the pen. Users demanded design around multitouch because they wanted zoom and rotate gestures. And making a touch screen that reacts well to both a pen and a finger appears to be expensive, whether in parts or in patent royalties.
go duck yourself.
(Yes; this is a joke. at no point ever have i ever meant "that ducking rat bastard.")
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Try and draw a picture of a horse using your keyboard... yea, you could pull it off, but it would be a total pain and would look terrible.
Some of us have great appreciation for ASCII art, you insensitive clod.
Without digital restrictions management, how do you expect to be able to rent movies and television programs produced by major studios?
scrap the 5 MP camera which is a complete joke when your screen is 0.4 MP
For one thing, the color filter eats at least half your image sensor's megapixels. Digital zoom (essentially, cropping a photo after shooting it) eats another three-fourths of what's left. Now you're down to 0.6 usable MP.
That's a matter of opinion. I for one hate physical keyboards. My fat thumbs don't get along with them. The on-screen ones don't require any pressure making them much easier for me.
i like my slider phone, I think it offers the best of both, full size screen, and a keyboard when you need it.
I'm not found of my ZTE Open. The touchscreen sucks, Reception is abysmal and so on. Oh, and there is only one thing i hate more than the ZTE Open: FirefoxOS itself. I dont mind the feature set, i bought this for development and stuff, but FFOS (1.2, or 1.3 or 1.4) is just too unstable. I'm stuck at the lockscreen way too often, and given the current state of the development tools it's very hard to debug the source. My opinion regarding getting a FFOS phone is: Wait.
Look for the LG Optimus F3Q (LG-D520). The Q is for "Qwerty". It's an Android 4.1.2 phone with a slide-out keyboard released this year. It's reasonably fast and featured. I have one and I like it. It may be the last keyboard phone ever released, so buy one while you can.
They routinely shit all over my webbrowser-based productivity, and now they want people to use a system with a whole operating system by them?
Fuuuuuuuuuuuck that!
I didn't realize it until I read a Blackberry article.
I guess it is common for busy people in business to have a conversation while typing e-mails on their Blackberry. They can't look at the screen so physical keyboards are a must. Especially in a meeting with others where you have to be there for 60 minutes even though you only participate for 5 minutes. You can spend 55 minutes doing actual work without being rude about it.
It's more like: The Great Visionary Steve Jobs decided that it doesn't need a keyboard, and then the sheeple felt the need to follow.
Wrt automatic transmission: in most of Europe, 90% of the cars have standard transmission. Are we Europeans less 'regular' people or what?
Exactly. Most people are terrible typists so for them a hardware keyboard provides no noticeable benefit.
When I think typist, a phone keyboard is the only type of keyboard that I don't think about. I am an excellent typist, I'd say, on any of three different keyboard layouts in two different languages. I still don't want a hardware keyboard on my smartphone.
The android platform supports an alternative keyboard called 8pen. It redesigns the interface to optimize for mobile screens. After continual use, i can now type on my mobile screen without even showing letters. Makes it great for confusing any screen watchers in public as well.
It's not a functional "non-command economy" so long as manufacturers abuse patents and carriers abuse their spectrum monopolies. Otherwise a new firm could enter the market and serve the minority.
'n *mah* speech t' text workin wif mah ebonix, nigga
I used to use 8 pen, and while it was interesting, I could never give my phone to someone and expect them to be able to use it without changing the keyboard. And while I admit that a phone is a personal device used by the primary user 95+% of the time, no one could search for anything or look up directions whilst I drove etc... I now use swype it gives the best of both worlds, gesture based typing and being able to give the phone to others and expect them to understand how to use it with no training.
Then simply buy a bluetooth keyboard and be happy. If hardware keyboards were really as popular as you're trying to insinuate then there would be more phones that have them. The fact of the matter is that you're a niche minority not worth chasing.
Preach it brother! Yes, because all revolves around the smartphone. I do all my programming on a smartphone, and it works a hell of a lot better, faster, and more accurate than any old school hardware keyboard.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Yeah, wanting a hardware keyboard on a cell phone isn't a bad thing.
No one said wanting one was bad. The point is that the average consumer doesn't care about the theoretical benefits that they won't see.
So I guess in your world,"Here comes Honey Boo-Boo" should be the only program because some folks like it?
If you don't want a hardware keyboard, then don't get one.
But you can also skip getting all preachy about catering to the lowest common denominator like it is something superior.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Have you ever actually observed the average consumer using a keyboard? They are very inefficient typists regardless of whether they have a physical or software keyboard\
Tru nf! my sfwr kbds gr8! LOL. This is the biggest difference between the hardware keyboard and the software ones. Wheras with a hardware keyboard, I can easily type out the words, so I do.
On a tablet, it takes a fair amount longer, more mistakes
On a smartphone? It sucks, so I only compose anything if I absolutely have to. Then it's GR8!
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Drawback is having to code for each corporate silo - Objective-C and iOS for Apple, Java and Android and Google Play for Android, now HTML5 for FireFoxOS. Eventually the geometric explosion of languages, platforms, tools, devices, etc becomes impossible. People develop for Apple because it's significantly easier - one app works on all devices. Android is next to impossible both because it's a steaming pile of poorly designed beta APIs and device fragmentation. Throw in Windows Metro and Windows Phone, and HTML5 and FireFoxOS, and a few others, you get a situation that does not work. What would be better is a single, industry-standard API for smartphones.
Sure, "one API to rule them all", eh? I suppose that'd be fine. Only . . . Which API/OS is best for all phones? What gatekeeper shall we all entrust with our devices? Opensource or proprietary?
Then again, with only one OS to worry about, hackers and the NSA should find their task immensely simpler than in the current environment. If there were only one software stack to consider, there'd only be a need for one walled garden for all of our apps - but who needs a choice?
So any app written for Firefox OS is *theoretically* instantly portable to any other smartphone. I say theoretically because each gecko alternative (webkit etc) needs to implement the Javascript APIs that Mozilla are standardising through the W3C.
(In the meantime, target a common api like Cordova)
HTML5 apps might never achieve the 'shiny' of an objective-c native app but for many scenarios it would suffice.
So Firefox OS may lose the battle of market penetration. But Mozilla the web company will win the war if they've shown it's feasible to implement any smartphone app using the building blocks of the web.
how do you expect to be able to rent movies and television programs produced by major studios?
I don't intend to rent these things, or buy these things. If it's produced by a studio which uses DRM I don't want it to be in my life.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
i want to try this OS, but dont know where to get it? somebody help me? mysite: http://phukhanghung.com.vn/
Unfortunately, you've been outvoted. I'm under the impression that the vast majority of potential users of Firefox OS prefer feature films distributed by a major studio to feature films distributed under a license for free cultural works, despite the DRM of the former.