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Congressman Introduces Bill To Limit FCC Powers

An anonymous reader writes "Representative Bob Latta (R-OH) introduced a bill on Wednesday that would limit the FCC's power to regulate ISPs in a supposed effort to keep the internet free. The bill's text is currently not available on the Library of Congress webpage or on congress.gov, but a purported copy has been spotted on scribd. Representative Latta's press release nevertheless indicates that the bill is intended to prevent the FCC from re-classifying ISPs as common carriers under Title II. Latta is one of the 28 representatives who lobbied the FCC earlier this month and were shown to have received double the average monetary donations given to all House of Representative members from the cable industry over a two year period ending this past December."

119 of 176 comments (clear)

  1. Good Sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If one of the largest telecom shills in congress is introducing anti-FCC legislation, this means the telecoms might be fearing a potential turn-around at the FCC.

    Just a month ago it seemed like this was all but impossible to think - maybe some home for REAL net neutrality rulings from the FCC?

    1. Re:Good Sign by penix1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't understand why Congress doesn't run afoul of the conflict of interest laws when they are allowed to write legislation that favors the ones funding their campaigns. It is a clear conflict of interest when you are writing laws that puts money in your own pocket. They should have to recuse themselves just like judges have to when they have a conflict of interest in a case. Can someone explain why this isn't a worse case than judges with a conflict considering how it is the law that judges are supposed to be interpreting?

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    2. Re:Good Sign by Charliemopps · · Score: 1, Informative

      If one of the largest telecom shills in congress is introducing anti-FCC legislation, this means the telecoms might be fearing a potential turn-around at the FCC.

      Just a month ago it seemed like this was all but impossible to think - maybe some home for REAL net neutrality rulings from the FCC?

      Oh for fucks sake. TELECOM = Phone companies. He received donations from CABLE companies. Completely different tech, somewhat related industry.

      The difference here is the telecoms ARE regulated. The Cable companies are not. The Cable companies are currently killing the telecoms because they have far less regulation. Telecoms all over the country are hurting because of this and lobbying heavily to get their regulation lifted. (I've worked for both. I currently work for a Telecom)

      The FCC is instead trying to bring the cable companies under the same regulatory umbrella as the telecoms (or at least something similar.) This congressman, conservative, doesn't like regulation obviously. So his goal is instead to keep Cable unregulated and likely down the road he wants to lift regulation on the telecoms. The FCC has the opposite approach. They want to regulate both industries even more.

      The actual best solution is likely somewhere in-between. If you could see the enormous amount of regulation Telecoms were under, you'd likely think it was insane. Stupid things left over from 50 or more years ago... But cable companies are completely unregulated. They don't even keep plant records (track of what wire and equipment is in the ground) so if they get bought out, or go out of business, the new owners have no idea whats out there.

      The entire industry could use an overhaul. It's something congress should sit down and do. But since everything gets treated like a black and white all or nothing issue these days, I doubt that's going to happen.

    3. Re:Good Sign by penix1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This has nothing to do with capitalism. It is about legalized bribery. When you have someone profiting off the rules they make that is actually anti-capitalism since it is skewing the playing field for other entities in the market.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    4. Re:Good Sign by sg_oneill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't understand why Congress doesn't run afoul of the conflict of interest laws when they are allowed to write legislation that favors the ones funding their campaigns. It is a clear conflict of interest when you are writing laws that puts money in your own pocket. They should have to recuse themselves just like judges have to when they have a conflict of interest in a case. Can someone explain why this isn't a worse case than judges with a conflict considering how it is the law that judges are supposed to be interpreting?

      In most european/aust/nz countries, most of asia and good chunks of south america and africa, it would be called "Corruption". Belesconi went down for stuff far *less* brazen than what some congress too.These people belong in prison, not seats of power.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    5. Re:Good Sign by ganjadude · · Score: 3, Insightful

      capitalism != crony capitalism

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    6. Re:Good Sign by penix1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh for fucks sake. TELECOM = Phone companies. He received donations from CABLE companies. Completely different tech, somewhat related industry.

      I agree that the cable companies aren't as regulated as the telcos however you left out one big thing in your rant above...

      Cable companies=telecom=phone company+Internet service provider+Content provider.

      They are indistinguishable these days since most if not all cable companies are providing VoiP as well as all the other internet related services. It is called "bundling". And the telcos are doing the same thing especially in the cellular area.

      So you are correct that to level the playing field you either should lift the regulation on the telcos or bring the cable providers under the same regulation.

      --
      This is a sig. This is only a sig. Had this been an actual sig you would have been informed where to tune for more sigs.
    7. Re:Good Sign by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      I don't understand how they are even allowed to receive money from non citizens. We would be all up in arms if Putin was financing some American politicians, so why do we allow multinational corporations to do it?

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    8. Re:Good Sign by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      It means they will just buy the law and neuter the FCC.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    9. Re:Good Sign by InfiniteBlaze · · Score: 5, Informative

      Exactly which cable company is NOT providing telephone service these days? They're telecoms now, plain and simple. The skirt around regulations by claiming "different technology", but it serves the same purpose, and seems like the same thing to the general public. It would seem you're against strict regulation. What will keep telecommunications providers from inspecting every packet that crosses their wires and holding up smaller businesses for protectio...I mean, transit fees? If I pay for 50Mbps bandwidth, and Netflix pays their provider for 50Tbps of bandwidth, but Comcast decides they should be making more money, what stops them from throttling Netflix traffic in exchange for more money? Streaming a video might take...2-3Mbps, right? The number crunchers at Comcast, though, see that Netflix traffic on their network takes up some 50%+ of the total traffic, and they want to ride the gravy train. So, they'll hold up Netflix for more dough, and Netflix will pass on the upcharge to their customers - making Netflix look like the bad guy to people who don't understand how it all works. Shady stuff, man, and we shouldn't give that kind of power to Comcast or At&t or anyone else.

    10. Re:Good Sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Pretty much all US cable companies provide phone service so saying they aren't telecoms is so what disingenuous.

    11. Re:Good Sign by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      It has everything to do with capitalism. It's the ultimate form of capitalism. You can buy and sell laws, legislation and in the end, governments.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    12. Re:Good Sign by camperdave · · Score: 1

      I think they should split the industry into signal providers and signal carriers, much like some places have split power generation and power carriers. Companies should not have a defacto monopoly just because they sit at the cable head.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    13. Re:Good Sign by Desler · · Score: 2

      Telecoms all over the country are hurting because of this and lobbying heavily to get their regulation lifted. (I've worked for both. I currently work for a Telecom)

      Their profits say otherwise. Verizon, for example, has been raking in record profits for multiple past quarters.

      Verizon Caps Strong Record of Success in 2013 With Fourth Consecutive Quarter of Double-Digit Earnings Growth

      Oh those poor telcos. I just won't be able to sleep at night over their pain and suffering. *rolls eyes*

    14. Re:Good Sign by Travis+Mansbridge · · Score: 3, Informative

      Free market capitalism implies competition. From Comcast's own announcement regarding their merger with TWC (http://corporate.comcast.com/comcast-voices/comcast-and-time-warner-cable-file-applications-and-public-interest-statement-with-fcc):

      "Comcast and TWC do not compete against each other in any area"

      We suffer from a cartel among service providers who keep their prices high and their service lousy by foregoing competition, and regulation is necessary to prevent this.

    15. Re:Good Sign by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Poor A/C, it's simple bribery. Bob Latta does not know or care, he has been given a dollar and told to bark like a seal and clap his hands. So, what is the exchange rate for 13 pieces of silver today?

    16. Re:Good Sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      People doing things that benefit themselves is the very definition of capitalism. Leveling the playing field for everyone is one of the tenets of Socialism. Look, in life there are winners and losers. We don't all get a trophy at the end. We aren't entitled to anything other than what we can get for ourselves. Just because some people have put themselves into a position where they can use what they've earned to better their station in life doesn't make them evil, or wrong. Just because you cannot do the same because you haven't been as successful doesn't make you a bad person. And you're certainly allowed to complain all you want about it. It doesn't mean you're right. It just is a passive-aggressive attempt to ask for more than you've earned, which is something we should *not* be doing in the USA. Work hard, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, and you probably can do as well (or better) than the leeches in Congress.

      Yes, the evil socialist equality enforcement mantra vs. the good wholesome salt of the earth, greed is good, ethos of capitalism speech. I'm sure you will be really understanding when a bunch of corporate oligarchs bribe your congressman and a whole bunch of local officials, expropriate your house, pay you a fraction of what it is worth so they can make a ton of money building something on the land. After all, what are they doing other than using the superior position they pulled them selves into by their boot straps to do things that benefit them selves? How can you be anything other than supportive of that? We slashdotters will certainly not applaude any of your passive aggressive attemtps to ask for more than you've earned by suing the bastards using the socialist equality enforcment mechanisms of the anti-capitalist legal system. After all through your utter failure to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps (that violates the laws of phyics BTW, perhaps you can redeem yourself by petitioning^W bribing your congressman to get those repealed?) and become well connected enough into the capitalist elite to get full price for your house you don't deserve to call yourself an American.

    17. Re:Good Sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Capitalism is about free market where all competitors are on the same playing field. If one player can make or change laws in his own favor, it isn't a free market anymore. How dumb are you?

    18. Re:Good Sign by stenvar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't understand why Congress doesn't run afoul of the conflict of interest laws

      Conflict of interest laws apply to judges and civil servants because they are not elected.

      For elected officials, we have a much simpler and more direct way of getting rid of them: we vote for someone else.

      You want to get rid of some other district's elected representative because you don't like what they are saying or doing? Tough sh*t, democracy doesn't work like that.

    19. Re:Good Sign by stenvar · · Score: 1

      Belesconi went down for stuff far *less* brazen than what some congress too.

      Are you kidding? Berlusconi was charged with massive bribery, corruption, sex with underage girls, wiretapping, money laundering, using his media empire for defamation, and many other charges.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...

      In the US, politicians wouldn't generally survive any one of these affairs. And in the US, these decisions are up to voters, as they should be, not judges or parliamentary majorities.

    20. Re:Good Sign by Guppy06 · · Score: 1

      This has nothing to do with capitalism. It is about legalized bribery.

      And where does the money come from if not the private ownership of the means of production? Who would be bribing whom if the state owned the fiber?

    21. Re:Good Sign by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      charlie rangel

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    22. Re:Good Sign by jythie · · Score: 2

      Stepping a little back. While we get rightly frustrated at how much money plays a part in politics, lobbying itself, including funding campaigns, is not all bad. Generally people (and groups of people) want people in office who are sympathetic to the things that matter to them. So if you want change, you find candidates who seem receptive to your cause and expend resources to help their chances of getting into office.

      They can not recuse themselves because having interests is part of their job. They are representatives, presenting and supporting the interests of their supporters is a part of their function.

      The problem is that it takes so much money to run a campaign, and that I place on the backs of voters. It would not be expensive if spending did not have such a big impact on voting behavior. Money works on 'us'.

    23. Re:Good Sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > Can someone explain why this isn't a worse case than judges with a conflict considering how it is the law that judges are supposed to be interpreting?

      A legislator votes to makes rules that, once they pass, become permanent for everyone, forever, unless a future legislature changes them or a court rules the law passed violates some other law. If the people affected by that action (i.e., everyone) don't like it, they can vote the bum out.

      A judge, in contrast, applies the law to a particular person before them, making several rulings that will only affect the party in question. If the person affected by that action (i.e., the party before the judge) doesn't like it, they can't do ANYTHING. Even if the judge leaves, their ruling stands -- and many judges have lifetime appointments.

      Not to mention that judges are supposed to be impartial, while legislators are supposed to be very partial -- their district voted to send them to the legislator to represent the district's interests, after all.

    24. Re:Good Sign by jythie · · Score: 1

      In their pure forms, they are pretty much identical. In terms of corruption they are both just as bad and manage to spin corruption as something principled. That is why countries that have either system tend to be, well, holes of brown sticky stuff. Most industrialized nations use hybrid systems.

    25. Re:Good Sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, I just want a fair election for the ones in my district, not gerrymandered nonsense that flies in the face of common sense and clearly shows partisanship.

    26. Re:Good Sign by fnj · · Score: 1

      From your own cite:

      "Critics of capitalism including socialists and other anti-capitalists often assert that crony capitalism is the inevitable result of any capitalist system. Jane Jacobs described it as a natural consequence of collusion between those managing power and trade, while Noam Chomsky has argued that the word "crony" is superfluous when describing capitalism."

      "Critics of capitalism" indeed. People with functioning brain stems!

    27. Re:Good Sign by stenvar · · Score: 1, Troll

      "Critics of capitalism" indeed.

      Yup, they "assert" this, but "asserting" something doesn't make it true. Socialists like to use the term to blame capitalism for what is actually a failure of government. "Crony capitalism" is "capitalism" in the same way that the "German Democratic Republic" was "democratic".

      People with functioning brain stems!

      Unfortunately, not much above their brain stems is functioning.

    28. Re:Good Sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      none of those are socialist countries you gullible fuck

    29. Re:Good Sign by fnj · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Almost all countries, socialist or not, are riddled with corruption. It is a human characteristic for humans in a position of power to fall into corruption.

      But I'll tell you one country which is not rotting from the head. You're not going to like it, because it is socialist. I am talking about the Republic of Uruguay; specifically of President José Mujica. He is an almost unique example of an uncorrupt leader of a nation. He declined to take up residence in the presidential palace and lives instead on an austere farm and cultivates flowers there. His transportation? Not the armored rolling palace of an Obama, but a 1987 VW beetle! His net worth on taking office was $1800, and he donates 90% of his presidential salary to the public welfare. He lives on the remaining $800 a month.

      He has also overseen the legalization of marijuana, which Obama is too corrupt to do.

      So I'm not sure I can show you a country, socialist or not, which is not sorrupt, but I sure can show you a socialist leader who is not corrupt.

    30. Re:Good Sign by fnj · · Score: 1

      Oh for fucks sake. TELECOM = Phone companies. He received donations from CABLE companies.

      Sigh. Are you falling for the lie hook line and sinker, or are you part of the lie?

      Telecommunication - communication at a distance by technological means, particularly through electrical signals or electromagnetic waves.
      Tele- a combining form meaning "distant", from the Greek "têle", far.
      Communiocation - the act or process of imparting, exchanging, or transmitting thoughts, opinions, or information.

      Phone companies and ISPs are doing exactly the same thing - facilitating telecommunication - and should OBVIOUSLY be regulated exactly the same way.

    31. Re:Good Sign by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      Thanks, I have read about this man before and do find him to be very inspirational. I believe that on a small scale, communism and socialism can work, but im talking a few thousand people max. anymore then that and as you pointed out human nature kicks in

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    32. Re:Good Sign by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      yeah but what good is a functioning brainstem if you dont actually use your brain?? of COURSE critics of capitalism will point out the worst case scenario. just as a capitalist will explain that communism is a disease and will result in stalin like executions.

      excuse me if i take the oppositions assertions with a grain of salt

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    33. Re:Good Sign by Imrik · · Score: 1

      An oligarchy or dictatorship can be socialist. Socialism is an economic system, not a governmental one.

    34. Re:Good Sign by Imrik · · Score: 1

      US politicians are guilty of most of those as well, they just have different names for them.

    35. Re:Good Sign by dmbasso · · Score: 1

      Nanananananananana ROBIN!!!! Sorry, I've been bribed.

      --
      `echo $[0x853204FA81]|tr 0-9 ionbsdeaml`@gmail.com
    36. Re:Good Sign by Imrik · · Score: 1

      It'd be nice if there was a way to keep the politicians from finding out who was paying for their campaigns. Then the money would go to people with similar interests, but the politicians wouldn't be able to change their interests to match the money. Unfortunately it isn't really practical.

    37. Re:Good Sign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That Election Fraud line is a joke. There is practically no effect on our system from fraud. Those laws are just meant to discourage voter turnout for those without a photo id like a drivers license. Not everyone can or does drive.

      I'm guessing your #3 is in reference to health insurance. It would be better to just put that cost into the tax code, but raising taxes is evil and then people wouldn't be able to pay for better care or something like that.

      As for any one trying to debate the merits of wanting to support Gore over Bush, it is enough to have a known character vs Bush which has done nothing. I would like to see some one revisit Bush's two terms and debate that Bush would have still been a better choice than Al Gore. Pretty much all those things you listed were after that election after all.

      At the end of your comment, you are saying that immoral behavior of corporations that should be illegal should be ignored because of these other problems in society. Don't ignore it, just tack it onto your list, unless 6 complaints is enough for everyone.

    38. Re:Good Sign by Richy_T · · Score: 2

      The ISPs would be bribing the state to raise barriers to new ISPs having access to the fiber, of course.

      The more you put under the power of the state, the more opportunity for corruption.

      To be sure there is a role for state regulation but when you're introducing regulations to fix problems cause by regulation, it's time to take a step back and reconsider what the fuck you're doing.

    39. Re: Good Sign by KenHansen · · Score: 1

      If politicians are not able to soloicit funds from the people their laws benefit, how will any politician fund their campaign? Can a politician that promises to work on behalf of women, minorities be barred from accepting campaign contributions from women and minorities? It may not be what you meant, but that is what you are actually asking for...

    40. Re: Good Sign by jmac_the_man · · Score: 1
      There wouldn't be any bribery. What there would (eventually) be is a State that is able to demand censorship. You can use Comcast's DNS to find sites criticizing Comcast because if Comcast blocked the site but Time Warner didn't, people would be able to tell the difference.

      Right now, when a site is ordered off the Internet, everyone who cares finds out about it immediately, largely because of the fact that the ISPs don't implement the order simultaneously.

      As a result, the government only does this rarely, and they only do it to people who they are accusing of crimes (generally piracy.) They don't do it to critics of the government.

      The FCC's job is to silence people who aren't speaking correctly. Thst's what the rules against using a HAM radio to transmit on the FM bands are. That's what the rules against cell phone jammers are. That's what the Fairness doctrine was.

      Now, the radio spectrum is constrained by physics. There is an absolutely finite capacity of information that can be transmitted over it in a given time span. There is a legitimate purpose in keeping users of the radio spectrum transmitting in their own blocks.

      The Internet, though, has a theoretically infinite capacity. (If we need more bandwidth, we could run more fiber without running up against the laws of physics.) Sine one person's Internet transmissions don't interfere with anyone else's (from a physics standpoint) there is no legitimate role for the government to dictate the terms of anyone's Internet speech.

      The FCC's job is to regulate the terms of people's speech. It would be wildly inappropriate for them to regulate the terms of speech of a newspaper, which is why the FCC doesn't regulate newspapers. It would be wildly inappropriate for them to regulate the terms of speech of a cabele television channels, which is why they don't regulate cable TV. It would be wildly inappropriate for the FCC to regulate the tems of speech of the Internet, so the FCC should stay out of regulating the Internet.

    41. Re:Good Sign by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Thing is that it seems inevitable that under capitalism democratic government will be for sale to the higher bidder. Laws and even Constitutions are ignored, judges are bought off or just flaming partisan shills. Perhaps a benevolent dictator would work but as history shows they are rare and eventually get replaced by a non-benevolent dictator.
      It seems to always come down to the no true Scotsman argument, and fails whether talking about Capitalism, Communism or other isms and reality is what we have.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    42. Re: Good Sign by KenHansen · · Score: 1

      Fear of losing customers that want unfiltered access to Netflix? Oh, wait, your town gave Comcast a monopoly on cable ISP service in exchange for free internet access in schools, a couple crappy public access channels, and a promise to offer their services to all homes in the community... By granting Comcast a virtual monopoly on internet access you enabled them to act like a monopoly.

    43. Re:Good Sign by NFN_NLN · · Score: 1

      People doing things that benefit themselves is the very definition of capitalism.

      Perhaps you're thinking of Asshole Anarchy.

      Central characteristics of capitalism include capital accumulation, competitive markets and wage labor.[3] In a capitalist economy, the parties to a transaction typically determine the prices at which assets, goods, and services are exchanged.[4]

      Writing legislation to intervene with the free portion of a free market is the opposite of a capitalism. I would like to benefit myself by using the government sanctioned cable under the ground to create my own ISP. Now go write that into law.

    44. Re:Good Sign by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Corruption is hard to measure as by its nature it is usually hidden, We can look at the corruption perception index, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... where the top countries traditionally generally have democratic socialism and the bottom countries are a mix of capitalist and socialist.
      We can also look at surveys asking the people, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... with similar results.
      The reality seems to be that a mix of capitalism and socialism seems to have the best outcome for the large majority of nations.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    45. Re:Good Sign by dryeo · · Score: 1

      The problem come in when the democratic process itself is corrupted. The most brazen in the States is gerrymandering but there are lots of other ways the American democratic process has been corrupted, witness the re-election statistics. When was the last time a party was wiped out due to perceived corruption? Here whole political parties have been wiped out due to perceived corruption. Unluckily they always come back with a new name and now have gotten wise to the idea of corrupting the democratic process in the name of fairness.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    46. Re:Good Sign by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Yes, the same thing should apply to union contributions and labor law.

    47. Re:Good Sign by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Bribery isn't generally publicly reported, is it?

    48. Re:Good Sign by chihowa · · Score: 1

      I don't think it's human nature that kicks in, because that is always present even if it's not acted upon. I think it's the lack of accountability and the amount of available power that kicks in. It's too much for the sociopathic politician types to ignore.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    49. Re:Good Sign by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      People doing things that ONLY benefit themselves is not a workable definition of Capitalism.

      --
      Good-bye
    50. Re:Good Sign by stenvar · · Score: 1

      The most brazen in the States is gerrymandering

      Gerrymandering is a process by which political parties in power user their power to give them a slight advantage in future elections. It involves no "corruption" (i.e., exchange of money for political favors), and pretty limited in scope. It is also widespread in Europe, except Europeans don't know and don't care.

      But European parties in power have many more mechanisms to hurt their opponents and help themselves, and they use those mechanisms frequently. Again, Europeans don't know and don't care.

      other ways the American democratic process has been corrupted, witness the re-election statistics

      In what way is it "corruption" when American voters choose to send the same representative to Congress year after year?

      In what way do you think is Europe better? The UK has lifetime peerage. Germany has a large part of its parliament appointed by party committees who keep unelectable politicians in parliament.

      Can you even find reelection statistics for, say, Germany?

      Here whole political parties have been wiped out due to perceived corruption.

      And in the US, political parties have changed radically in their composition and political programs over the past two centuries; only the labels have remained the same. Furthermore, representatives within those parties are far more independent than representatives in European political parties. Voting against your party, common in the US, will get you in serious trouble in many places in Europe.

    51. Re:Good Sign by stenvar · · Score: 1

      Thing is that it seems inevitable that under capitalism democratic government will be for sale to the higher bidder.

      Buying Congressional seats or the presidency has frequently been unsuccessful, and very rich and powerful people regularly get tough sentences from judges. Therefore, obviously, your hypothesis is false: democratic government under capitalism does not go to the highest bidder.

      What bothers you is rent seeking (lobbying, etc.), the same thing that bothers me and many other people. But rent seeking exists under all forms of government. Furthermore, the more economic activity takes place in a free market, the less rent seeking is possible.

      It seems to always come down to the no true Scotsman argument, and fails whether talking about Capitalism, Communism or other isms and reality is what we have.

      No, it simply comes down to people like you pulling made-up facts out of your ass.

    52. Re:Good Sign by stenvar · · Score: 1

      We can look at the corruption perception index, where the top countries traditionally generally have democratic socialism and the bottom countries are a mix of capitalist and socialist.

      If you look at the methodology, that's kind of like asking the editors of Pravda whether the USSR is corrupt. (The other statistic is just as bad.)

      The reality seems to be that a mix of capitalism and socialism seems to have the best outcome for the large majority of nations.

      Based on what criteria? Growth, wealth, education, etc. are certainly not consequences of such a mix.

      Furthermore, you got cause and effect backwards. Most of those countries where it seems to be working OK adopted socialist-inspired policies after they became wealthy; they are spending down their wealth.

    53. Re:Good Sign by gtall · · Score: 1

      Jim Wright, Tom Delay, William Jefferson.

    54. Re:Good Sign by Atzanteol · · Score: 1

      Does reporting it make it not bribery?

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
    55. Re:Good Sign by dywolf · · Score: 1

      im not sure you actually understand the defintion of the words "socialism" or "capitalism"

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    56. Re:Good Sign by dywolf · · Score: 1

      People doing things that benefit themselves is the very definition

      No.
      No it's not.
      The definition of the word capitalism is "an economic system in which trade, industry, and the means of production are controlled by private owners"

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    57. Re:Good Sign by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Dumb and stupid are synonyms.

    58. Re:Good Sign by jelIomizer · · Score: 1

      Nor does 1 equal 2.

      Whoops! No True Scotsman! Sorry!

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    59. Re:Good Sign by Bartles · · Score: 1

      If trade, industry, and the means of production are heavily regulated by the government, can you really say they are still controlled by private owners?

    60. Re:Good Sign by jelIomizer · · Score: 1

      Anyone who votes for candidates put forth by The One Party is a god damn moron. When it comes to fundamental liberties, both main parties despise freedom with every fiber of their beings.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    61. Re:Good Sign by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > What is the point of capitalism if the system just turns against the winners and beats them down? It removes most of the incentives to try in the first place.

      Profit doesn't require being the economic version of Hitler or Stalin. You can still make plenty of money without being an economy crippling monopoly.

      Megalomania is not required. There's ample room to make a buck beneath that threshold.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    62. Re:Good Sign by guises · · Score: 1

      Uruguay is actually tied with the United States for 19th least corrupt. This makes them the least corrupt country in South America, but unremarkable globally. Unsurprisingly, the least corrupt countries are in northern Europe (plus New Zealand). In other words, the socialist countries.

      This comment: "He has also overseen the legalization of marijuana, which Obama is too corrupt to do." is ridiculous. Marijuana legislation isn't about bribes, it's about catering to a certain hysterical group of voters. Likewise, this comment: "Not the armored rolling palace of an Obama" seems to indicate that you have a very poor perception of what corruption is, exactly. It certainly can be expending public resources on creature comforts for yourself, but the fact that Obama continues to use the same bulletproof limo that every president prior to himself has used is not an indication of corruption. The referenced article, where a congressman has accepted campaign contributions in exchange for legislation that is clearly contrary to the public interest - that is an indication of corruption.

    63. Re:Good Sign by dryeo · · Score: 1

      The most brazen in the States is gerrymandering

      Gerrymandering is a process by which political parties in power user their power to give them a slight advantage in future elections. It involves no "corruption" (i.e., exchange of money for political favors), and pretty limited in scope. It is also widespread in Europe, except Europeans don't know and don't care.

      But European parties in power have many more mechanisms to hurt their opponents and help themselves, and they use those mechanisms frequently. Again, Europeans don't know and don't care.

      Why in a representative democracy should the party in power be able to fix things to give them a future advantage? Just the idea of politicians having power in how the electoral process works reeks of corruption. And no, corruption does not have to involve money. And why reference Europeans? It's a big place with a lot of different cultures and political systems. Perhaps we should also talk about Africa or S. America and do a lot of generalizing. It's America that pretends to be the bastion of freedom and is acting like a bully on the world stage.

      other ways the American democratic process has been corrupted, witness the re-election statistics

      In what way is it "corruption" when American voters choose to send the same representative to Congress year after year?

      In what way do you think is Europe better? The UK has lifetime peerage. Germany has a large part of its parliament appointed by party committees who keep unelectable politicians in parliament.

      Can you even find reelection statistics for, say, Germany?

      The American Congress consistently has very high dissatisfaction ratings and yet keep getting re-elected.
      Lifetime peerage or other fair way to appoint members along with an effective upper house (which has now been pretty well neutered) gives a chance for a sober second look at legislation so that, with luck, really crappy legislation that hasn't been thought through can be slowed down and perhaps amended to fix problems.
      Your Founding Fathers agreed about the upper house who was appointed rather then elected and tried to fix the peerage crap by letting the States appoint the upper house. Unluckily there was so much corruption in the process that eventually it was changed to direct elections and now you have an upper house who is as much interested in re-election as doing the right thing.
      I just looked up the reelection statistics for Germany. One party (FDP) got totally wiped out losing all of its 93 seats. Obviously they did not please the voters with their performance as part of the ruling coalition.
      Having any amount of Parliament appointed by the party is bad, whether through the complicated German system or the simple system of a party vetting all its candidates, especially in safe seats.

      Here whole political parties have been wiped out due to perceived corruption.

      And in the US, political parties have changed radically in their composition and political programs over the past two centuries; only the labels have remained the same. Furthermore, representatives within those parties are far more independent than representatives in European political parties. Voting against your party, common in the US, will get you in serious trouble in many places in Europe.

      Not having such party discipline does have a lot to say for itself, it also gives more reasons for people not to vote along party lines yet the American system seems to be set up that way.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    64. Re:Good Sign by dryeo · · Score: 1

      How else do you measure perception? I know for my country the ranking seems pretty accurate including the downward spiral since the right took power. Most of the other countries seem to agree with general perception.
      Actually the countries with the best growth, wealth, education, etc are generally a mix of socialist and capitalist. The Nordic countries, Germany, the larger Commonwealth countries are all doing quite well.
      Even China since they've moved to a mixed system has made enormous strides. As a counter we have Russia who have gone from socialist to pure capitalist and things are so bad that most of the population is drinking itself to death. This is after going from feudal to space faring in half a century while making huge sacrifices to win WWII and having totally nutty dictators, especially Stalin who was a special type of insane.
      Other examples of pure capitalist countries being corrupt consist of much of South and Central America and much of Africa. Think of General Pinochet or Haiti though to be honest they all seem to be corrupt no matter what their politics.
      Perhaps you think that Northern Europe is spending down their wealth, I don't see much evidence of it. Instead it seems it is the capitalist right wing governments that are in massive debt or if inheriting a balanced budget, say to themselves, "I'm finally living in my means and can pay my bills, I can now take time of of work" rather then "I'm finally living in my means, time to pay off this debt"
      I'm old fashioned and think that people and countries should live in their means and have the minimum of debt. I'm also old fashioned and think that governments should follow their Constitutions and not turn into police states and taking the best of different systems seems to work the best.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    65. Re:Good Sign by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Here I thought that it cost a fortune to run for power in the American federal government which means needing large campaign contributions with the contributors expecting favours in return. Glad to hear I'm totally wrong on that.
      Free markets are great but expecting them to stay free, especially as they grow is as stupid as expecting to have a communist state without some arsehole dictator seizing power.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    66. Re:Good Sign by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Marijuana criminalization was about protecting industries, read up on Hearst and his new pulp paper industry and the threat of cheap hemp paper, as well as a part of government that had experienced unparallelled power during prohibition wanting to keep that power. Getting certain groups of people hysterical was the propaganda part of it, very successful as it was run by one of the largest media empires of the time. Note if the government had tried to illegalize hemp it would never of succeeded so they had to invent a new word, marijuana, so people didn't catch on.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    67. Re:Good Sign by guises · · Score: 1

      I'm familiar with the history, but while the historical context is interesting it has nothing to do with whether the current president is or is not corrupt. Paper industry protectionism is not the reason why Obama has not overseen the nationwide legalization of marijuana.

    68. Re:Good Sign by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      That just inocent lobbying, companies showing their support for democracy. I hope you're not implying that it's something like bribery, are you?

    69. Re:Good Sign by stenvar · · Score: 1

      Here I thought that it cost a fortune to run for power in the American federal government which means needing large campaign contributions with the contributors expecting favours in return. Glad to hear I'm totally wrong on that.

      Yes, you are "totally wrong" on that. People do need large amounts of money, but the rest is b.s.

      Free markets are great but expecting them to stay free, especially as they grow is as stupid as expecting to have a communist state without some arsehole dictator seizing power.

      The threat to free markets is people like you, namely people who advocate making them unfree by law and making politics ever more corrupt. As long as people like you don't win, markets remain free and society benefits.

    70. Re:Good Sign by stenvar · · Score: 1

      Why in a representative democracy should the party in power be able to fix things to give them a future advantage? Just the idea of politicians having power in how the electoral process works reeks of corruption. And no, corruption does not have to involve money. And why reference Europeans? It's a big place with a lot of different cultures and political systems.

      We're talking about Europe because you made comparisons with Europe and said that gerrymandering is the most brazen form of political corruption in the US. I pointed out that not only is gerrymandering common in Europe, European political parties have far more sinister ways of corrupting the political process.

      The American Congress consistently has very high dissatisfaction ratings and yet keep getting re-elected.

      Yes: people dislike other representatives and generally like their own. Hardly surprising because each representative acts in his own district's interest.

      I'm not sure what point the rest of your paragraph is supposed to make.

      It's America that pretends to be the bastion of freedom and is acting like a bully on the world stage.

      We don't "pretend", we are, as far as US citizens are concerned. Like all governments, US government is an imperfect compromise, but it gives us more freedom (but also more responsibility and less safety) than most other governments. See, freedom isn't just good, it also comes at a high cost. Europeans choose less freedom and pay less of those costs.

      If you're living elsewhere, it's not the job of the US government to give you what you want. If you make decisions that conflict with our interests, we will "bully" you. And that applies even to what you may consider a "democracy": if you impose trade restrictions, impede the flow of capital, or deny us access to resources or trade, the US will come down hard on you.

      And let me point out that US pressure is far more benign than anything Europe has done to the rest of the world over the past few centuries.

    71. Re:Good Sign by stenvar · · Score: 1

      How else do you measure [corruption]?

      Look, you were trying to make a point about political corruption. Then you switched to bureaucratic corruption, a completely different thing, and then you provided statistics that don't even support that point.

      The "corruption" we are actually talking about (politicians giving favors to private companies) is primarily rent seeking. You can't measure that by asking people "did you pay a bribe".

      Actually the countries with the best growth, wealth, education, etc are generally a mix of socialist and capitalist. The Nordic countries, Germany, the larger Commonwealth countries are all doing quite well.

      As I was saying, you're seeing a cause-and-effect where there is none. And when I say "high growth rates", almost none of them are doing as well as the US (the only ones doing better than the US are tax havens and oil producers):

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...

      Perhaps you think that Northern Europe is spending down their wealth, I don't see much evidence of it.

      Northern Europeans aren't that wealthy to begin with, relative to the US.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...

      Other examples of pure capitalist countries being corrupt ...

      You're trying to reduce complex economic and political science issues to a bunch of ill-thought-out anecdotes.

      I'm old fashioned and think that people and countries should live in their means and have the minimum of debt. I'm also old fashioned and think that governments should follow their Constitutions and not turn into police states and taking the best of different systems seems to work the best.

      And I'm old-fashioned in that I think that you should worry about your own country and stay out of US politics.

    72. Re:Good Sign by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Why in a representative democracy should the party in power be able to fix things to give them a future advantage? Just the idea of politicians having power in how the electoral process works reeks of corruption. And no, corruption does not have to involve money. And why reference Europeans? It's a big place with a lot of different cultures and political systems.

      We're talking about Europe because you made comparisons with Europe and said that gerrymandering is the most brazen form of political corruption in the US. I pointed out that not only is gerrymandering common in Europe, European political parties have far more sinister ways of corrupting the political process.

      I've reviewed the thread and can't find any references to Europe besides yours.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    73. Re:Good Sign by stenvar · · Score: 1

      I've reviewed the thread and can't find any references to Europe besides yours.

      Well, that's because you have been vague and evasive in your examples:

      The most brazen in the States is gerrymandering ... Here whole political parties ...

      You were talking about a party-based democracy in which (implied) significant political parties have disappeared, and you referred to Europe in other threads. In any case, it is also the proper counterexample, regardless of whether you were referring to Elbonia, Canada, or some European nation. Don't blame me for responding as best I can to your vague and evasive statements. Feel free to clarify.

    74. Re:Good Sign by dryeo · · Score: 1

      The part of government that has acquired huge powers due to the war on drugs along with pressures from the prison industry along with civil forfeiture financing many smaller governments are major pressures keeping marijuana and other drugs illegal.
      Whether its the President who is corrupt or the bureaucracy it seems like corruption to me, especially the way civil forfeiture is used.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    75. Re:Good Sign by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Stop linking to that. It measures perception of corruption, not corruption itself. It tells us... basically nothing.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    76. Re:Good Sign by guises · · Score: 1

      If you think there's a better way to measure corruption than I'd be happy to hear it. Comparing numbers of prosecutions / reported incidents of bribery is ultimately just a way of evaluating the vigilance of the country's legal system. Surveying journalists and public policy experts, as they do, certainly seems to me to be the most effective approach.

    77. Re:Good Sign by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      when they are allowed to write legislation

      Or when they introduce legislation that has been completely written by the lobbyists who donate big sums of money to their campaign, treat them to "fact finding trips" to luxury resorts, and the like. Because nothing says "of the people, by the people" like having a giant corporation treat some Senators to a trip on a yacht so that they can push for a bill that the giant corporation has completely written to become law.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    78. Re:Good Sign by jfengel · · Score: 1

      The theory is that this is just one guy. He can introduce all the legislation he wants but requires over 200 others to also be on his side. A judge, by contrast, holds unique power in the room (or at least, one of a very small number).

      In fact, given the difficulties in trying to reach a 60 vote threshold in the Senate, which has become essentially mandatory, the odds of this legislation going anywhere are extremely low. If it gets anywhere at all, it will be subject to the votes of the rest of the Congressmen, who have to face reelection.

      Corporations can push to elect candidates who are predisposed to be favorable to them. They can't fund campaigns directly, but they can put out advertising to influence those voters, but voters are subject to a lot of influence, and it's easier to get other Congressmen to say "no" than "yes".

      I'm not trying to defend the system; it's obviously a damn mess. But it's also the essence of representative democracy, a fundamentally antagonistic system. Judges aren't supposed to be in an antognistic relationship; they're intended to seek balance while juries make the actual decisions. (The top-level federal courts do work antagonistically, and that's actually a disaster in the making.)

      You can't have legislators drop out due to conflict of interest: "interest" is what they were elected to do. The voters are supposed to be the brake on that: no matter what corporate push they get the voters can still dump them if they don't like it.

      Whether the voters will actually do so on an abstruse issue like the FCC... well, there's democracy for you, and I have no further comment.

    79. Re:Good Sign by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      For elected officials, we have a much simpler and more direct way of getting rid of them: we vote for someone else.

      Unfortunately, the politicians in power can redraw the voting district lines to help prevent the opposing party from being able to overtake the incumbents.

      Not that the major opposing party is much better. All too often voting (for one of the major parties, putting third party candidates aside for the moment) seems like a choice between bad and worse.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    80. Re:Good Sign by stenvar · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, the politicians in power can redraw the voting district lines to help prevent the opposing party from being able to overtake the incumbents.

      "penix1" blames the ills of US politics on the supposed fact that money buys congressional districts. You claim that gerrymandering keeps politicians in power. Which is it? They can't both be true. If incumbents stay in power through gerrymandering, once elected, representatives could simply give donors the finger and do what they want.

      Fact is that incumbents always have an advantage, in any democracy, and that's not even necessarily a big thing since it helps with a bit of continuity and stability. But from US election statistics, it's clear that neither money nor gerrymandering has a dominant effect on elections.

    81. Re:Good Sign by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      It's a little bit of both. Gerrymandering helps out, but if the big donations went to their opponent, the opponent could spend more on their election campaign and get enough votes to kick the incumbent out of office. However, with just the big donations, the people in a district might be more evenly split between Democrat and Republican and thus be more likely to change sides depending on who is running. (For the simplicity, I'm ignoring third parties here which most people - for better or worse - tend to skip over as they vote D/R. That's a different issue entirely.) In addition, the big donations, nice trips, and promises of cushy jobs when they "retire" from Congress help get the lobbyist legislation pushed through.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  2. Does anyone actually believe this? by Kuroji · · Score: 4, Informative

    The congresscritters are owned by lobbyists at this point, without question. Lock, stock, and barrel.

    Even if things don't go the way they want, they'll just keep introducing legislation to try and get what their masters want. CISPA is the most blatant example of this.

    1. Re:Does anyone actually believe this? by canadiannomad · · Score: 2

      I believe this in so far as I think some congress people are jealous and want larger "campaign contributions" as well.

      --
      Hmm, the humour and sarcasm seem to have been be lost on you.
    2. Re:Does anyone actually believe this? by Chewbacon · · Score: 1

      Could be a congressman on an ISP payroll?

      --
      Chewbacon
      The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
    3. Re:Does anyone actually believe this? by Minupla · · Score: 2

      You kidding? They'd be terrible at tech support! They think the internet is made of tubes forchrissake!

      Min

      --
      On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
  3. Just another show of American Oligarchs by Greg666NYC · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Power and Money have no borders. USA, North Korea or Russia makes no difference for oligarchs. They want it all and don't care where the peasants live. As long they are compliant, work hard for a small change and don't ask too much in return. Welcome to XXI century where oligarchs around the world hold hands together.

    1. Re:Just another show of American Oligarchs by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Welcome to XXI century...

      Dude! It's the 21st century. Nobody uses roman numerals anymore.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  4. Leave it to a politician by Cantankerous+Cur · · Score: 1

    to line his own pockets, actively work against his constituency, and claim it's for the good of the people.

  5. @boblatta by mrbester · · Score: 1

    His Twitter feed makes for interesting reading, the replies tend not to be supportive...

    --
    "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
  6. Unelected(FCC) vs bribed(Congress) by schwit1 · · Score: 1

    This is not going to end well.

  7. One good sign... by RoverDaddy · · Score: 1

    I went to his Facebook page and it looks the like comments on this issue are about 30:1 against his position. He's really being hammered there as a sellout. Yeah, I know, he really doesn't give a damn, but I'm glad people are speaking up.

    --
    RETURN without GOSUB in line 1050
    1. Re:One good sign... by Coditor · · Score: 1

      If people were really against his positions, why did he get elected? Probably because he ran against a hamster and they had no choices. I wish we could vote no.

    2. Re:One good sign... by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      Either that or because he's team red and ran in a team red district.

  8. Isn't it sad? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Be honest now. When you read this, and how a congressman was trying to limit the power of the FCC, the entity that tried to eliminate net neutrality just recently, did you think "yay" or was your first thought "now how is this going to be used to fuck us over"?

    Am I the only one who feels like ANY kind of law being introduced today is aiming at screwing the average voter over in favor of the interest of a few corporations?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Isn't it sad? by Xyrus · · Score: 2

      Well, now that money == speech politicians are deaf to all but the wealthiest.

      We have legalized bribery and all but legalized corruption with ever more sweeping powers being granted to the executive in an effort to ensure "peace and security". This does not bode well.

      --
      ~X~
    2. Re:Isn't it sad? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Why stop there?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Isn't it sad? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Sadly for everyone who notices the problem there are 10 others who play cheerleaders to the whole shit.

      Maybe this really is what the people want and I'm just the odd idiot who can't see just how great the system is, dunno.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Isn't it sad? by Imrik · · Score: 1

      Well, as far as how it would screw us over. If the FCC loses the power to regulate ISPs, net neutrality is gone. The only thing protecting it is the FCCs regulation that they tried to change.

    5. Re:Isn't it sad? by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      If you change "corporations" to "entities", then yes.

    6. Re:Isn't it sad? by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      Why starve to death when there's free food, housing and money to be had?

  9. Tar and Feathers would be too good for him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Wrap him in cat6 and dangle him off the brooklyn bridge.

  10. POTS: Plain Old Telecom Service by ankhank · · Score: 1

    Look, if Ben Franklin had understood this "electricity" thing better, he'd have defined the Post Office program -- that allowed "a Republic, if you can keep it" to work, by putting every citizen within equal reach of every other citizen -- to include it explicitly.

    That's Article I, Section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution, that gave us the Post Office.

    In his day, they did it with horses.
    Now, we do it with electronics.

    Same difference. Ought to be the same anyhow.

  11. Reps are wrong; last mile should be utility by garyebickford · · Score: 1

    IMHO this is yet another example of the national Republicans being out of touch with real people on Main Street (unlike the 'true' Republican party that existed for decades.) They are listening to the lobbyists for the big cable providers, etc. - those whose present business model is based on having local monopolies, while being allowed to act as if they were in competitive markets. This even extends to liability for content - these companies are arguing on the one hand that they are 'common carriers' and so are not liable for illegal content, but then act as enhanced information providers, who can be liable.

    Since it's inefficient to run numerous separate cables down each street, the 'last mile' at least should be treated as a utility - a simple transition point might be the location where Akamai, Google and NetFlix put their cacheing servers, and/or where all of the trunk lines come together into the router(s) that ship the data to/from the consumers. This is analogous to what the phone systems do. The fact is that the entire purpose of the Utility regulations was to avoid two things: massive duplication of infrastructure (wiring), and unfair marketing practices.

    Ideally the last mile providers of IP and TCP - both cable and phone - would be required to split off and operated as independent divisions from their 'enhanced services' business, to avoid any opportunity to use unfair means to create an advantage, such as what they are explicitly doing now. In fairness, they should provide the fastest available data transmission between the central office at a regulated price. Then their information provider division would have to compete along with everyone else for access - including TV and data. If Home Shopping Channel wants access, they can pay the user (through the last mile provider). In this model, any company could put together a package of services and sell it to the home user. The last mile provider would not care what it is or where it's from.

    IANAL, but IMHO there is ample cause for a national class action suit or DoJ action against these monopoly practices. Use of their control over the 'last mile' to force other information providers to pay more than their own partners seems to me to be an obvious violation of the Sherman Act. They assert that they don't have a monopoly, because their is also a phone line there. However they also have monopoly licenses for cable services and the associated digital services from each town and county jurisdiction, and the cost of the infrastructure is such that it's been uneconomic for the phone companies to build out a competitive network. The cable network started off as a high-bandwidth delivery system, which was easy to upgrade to digital, while the older, low bandwidth phone network has to be built out almost from scratch.

    As a rural resident I'd even advocate a deal where the last mile utilities to be created were given subsidies, perhaps in the form of low-interest loans, to run high speed internet to every residence. I'm not in general an advocate of government subsidies - i.e. corporate welfare. But historically, the Rural Electrification project subsidized rollout of electricity to rural communities, which provided a historic economic boost and paid for itself. The Bonneville Power Administration and Tennessee Valley Authority built dams and power lines. Local power was handled by both public and private entities. Similarly, even today your phone bill includes a tax/fee infrastructure that helps to subsidize rural telephone companies - big city companies hat this, and it's the basis for those Free Conference Call vendors.

    --
    It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
    1. Re:Reps are wrong; last mile should be utility by swb · · Score: 2

      I'm not convinced the Republican Party "of old" was ever all that much better although I could be swayed by the idea that they're a lot more brazen in their willingness to embrace just about any corporate proposal. I'm especially unconvinced the Democrats are any better,

      Lame duck like Obama, you'd hope he'd use the FCC/FTC/Justice department to lean on the cable companies, block their merger attempts, get the DoJ to issue opinions in favor of municipal broadband and raise anti-trust investigations over market interference and monopoly behavior regarding things like Netflix paying twice for transit. He's not running again, let Hillary sell her own soul to big telecom to claim she'l undo his executive actions or make the Republicans waste their political capital defending the cable company.

      I think the only hope in this situation is municipal infrastructure. Get the cities or counties to build a dark fiber network and lease it out to any and all that want to sell services on it. The information superhighway is a tired cliche, but the road/network analogy is true and there's no reason we can't think of roads/fiber as the same concept. City owns the roads, service providers buy the vehicles and sell their services.

      In theory cable companies should be behind this -- cut them out of all that infrastructure to maintain, let the taxpayers do it and just provide the programming. It won't be rent-seeking money but their overhead goes down a lot.

    2. Re:Reps are wrong; last mile should be utility by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      I don't see the issue with duplication of infrastructure anyway. It's like when people complain about multiple brands of conflakes on the supermarket shelf and the associated advertising costs. It totally fails to account for the value proposition that competition brings.

      Sure, no one wants a dozen fiber optic cables strung down the street (though I wish the US would bury the cables but that's another discussion) but that's not likely to happen anyway. The issue is that if you allow competition, the maximum that can be charged is that at which point it becomes financially worthwhile for another company to come along and start stringing cable. If the government is providing a monopoly, it becomes a "my way or the highway" proposition and those companies that have the monopolies can get away with a whole bunch of crap. Just look at what is happening where Google has said "damn the expense" and started putting fiber in anyway. Prices from the incumbent ISPs have plummeted.

      Competition: Learn it, love it.

    3. Re:Reps are wrong; last mile should be utility by garyebickford · · Score: 1

      I'm not convinced the Republican Party "of old" was ever all that much better although I could be swayed by the idea that they're a lot more brazen in their willingness to embrace just about any corporate proposal. I'm especially unconvinced the Democrats are any better,

      The original GOP, recall, was essentially created to end slavery. Had Lincoln not been elected, it's possible that the war might not have happened. In the 1880s (IIRC - may have been earlier) the GOP entered a Civil Rights bill that was essentially the same as the one that finally got passed in 1962 - and THAT one was passed with 80% GOP support, only 66% Dem support even though it was sponsored by the Dem administration. Even then, the Dems only came along after much arm twisting and 'incentives'.

      From the end of Reconstruction until FDR, the South was 100% Democratic - this is the period in which the black vote was suppressed. The potential black vote was, almost 100% GOP - "Party of Lincoln" and all that, but were not allowed to vote. (Fascinating book, "Making Whiteness" - about the fugue state that the South created, living a false dream after the Civil War and imposing that dream on the rest of the country with its solid voting block.)

      More recently, I grew up in Oregon (I don't live there now.) In the late 1960s Oregon was a majority GOP state, but people tended to vote for the better candidate of either party - but were fundamentally conservative in the real sense - using resources wisely and avoiding sudden changes without thinking through the consequences. Under a GOP governor, Oregon passed the first "bottle bill", and the first statewide land-use planning law in the US. The planning law was intended to protect farmers from the tax consequences of encroaching housing. The increased potential value caused their property taxes to skyrocket, so was taxing them out of business - so they had to sell, which then put the pressure on the next farm, and so on. These taxes could often be several times the total annual revenue of a farm. By setting up an "Exclusive Farm Use" zoning law, these farmers were given a lower tax burden that allowed them to keep their farms. These two measures were fundamentally conservative in the real sense. Today "conservative" and "liberal" are both terms of convenience that mean whatever the parties want them to mean, so are essentially meaningless In fact the huge influx of urban Democrats into Oregon that shifted the politics was the result of those policies. Even today, in the most recent elections only five counties out of thirty-odd actually vote "blue" - all of the more rural areas are still solidly Main Street Republicans.

      Throughout its history the GOP has oscillated between being the party of Big Government and the party of Small Government. Under Lincoln it was definitely Big Government - he was the first to impose an income tax, the first (and only IIRC) to suspend Habeus Corpus during a war, and the first (obviously) to assert that states could not secede - although he himself wrote at some point that he believed they had the right. The period of Teddy Roosevelt was an especially interesting one - the so-called "Progressive" era that he started, was originally within the GOP. It was mostly a populist, anti-corruption movement. But the power brokers hated it, especially after it morphed into something closer to the present "Progressive" liberal mantra.

      Bottom line - populists of all kinds are going to have a hard time.

      --
      It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
    4. Re:Reps are wrong; last mile should be utility by garyebickford · · Score: 2

      Yes, there's a happy medium.

      The history of AT&T is most interesting. At that time (late 1920s IIRC) there were hundreds or thousands of phone companies. AT&T was the biggest. AT&T used both technical arguments and outright bribery to establish the phone monopoly. It argued that with all these companies competing - mostly for the "last mile" - the country would suffer with too many conflicting technologies and incompatibilities, and price competition would prevent spending the money for the research and development needed. This was not so long after the railroads went through some growing pains that had to be fixed with legislation, so they had a point. But they also spread money around Congress like water - not just campaign donations but cash under the table. At one point it was estimated that 90% of Congress had been paid off by AT&T. So the competitors basically were never allowed to make the opposing technical case - it was a done deal.

      The result was a slow but steady growth in technology, and the tremendous R&D of Bell Labs. But it's also possible that the other path might have resulted in much faster development - we'll never know.

      Later AT&T and its children fought tooth and nail to prevent any other product from hooking up to its lines - again their argument was to "protect the infrastructure". The 1968 CarterFone Decision broke that side of the monopoly and allowed us to plug any phone or modem we wanted into the network, so long as it they "did not cause harm to the system". The present arguments are a continuation of this issue. In a related process, Skype applied to the FCC in 2007 to apply this decision to the wireless industry and require wireless carriers to allow any device to connect to wireless without getting prior approval from the carrier. (This would, I think, break the monopoly on phones that each wireless carrier presently maintains.)

      --
      It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future! http://www.spacefinancegroup.com/
    5. Re:Reps are wrong; last mile should be utility by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      But it's also possible that the other path might have resulted in much faster development - we'll never know.

      True, it's impossible to be sure but one might attempt to measure it up to the growth of the internet which has, in a decade or two since it became consumer ready, brought us vast information resources at a cheap cost and has, in the process, totally buried some technologies that telcos were attempting to bring us in their half-hearted locked-in manner (Video calls, information services etc).

    6. Re:Reps are wrong; last mile should be utility by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      I've long wished that the "GOP crazies" would split off from the Republican party and form their own party so we could ignore them and the Republicans could be a viable voting option again. Now, though, I think it would be easier if the "old-school, sane GOP" split off from the Republican party. Let the Republican party sink into history and make this new party a major political force. Would it be perfect? Of course not. But I'd be a lot more willing to vote Republican without the pro-religion, anti-science, pro-big-business, anti-little-guy, anti-progress attitude that the "GOP crazies" seem to want to enforce.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  12. Write a novel by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    Personally, I am glad Congress may vote on it, as it should for any significant or novel regulatory change, rather than regulators being praised for coming up with a new rationale to take something over Congress never anticipated.

    The correct solution here would be truth-in-advertising to force Comcast to highlight at the beginning of their contract with you that they are demanding a kickback from Netflix of a part of the money you pay Netflix or they will make your Netflix viewing crappy in violation of their contract with you that you have a minimum guaranteed bandwidth.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:Write a novel by Imrik · · Score: 1

      Since when has Comcast offered contracts with minimum guaranteed bandwidth?

  13. Working Hard by meerling · · Score: 1

    He's working hard to justify that bribe he received.

  14. Contact Bob Latta by whistlingtony · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://latta.house.gov/contact/ His number is Washington DC is Phone: (202) 225-6405. His Ohio toll free number is 800-541-6446.

    Send him an email, or ring him. Please be polite.

  15. Anyone live in this guy's district? by jonwil · · Score: 1

    With an election due later in the year, this guy is presumably up for re-election. Is there anyone here who can comment on how hard it would be to vote him out? Anyone know who his opponent is and what their position on net neutrality is?

    1. Re:Anyone live in this guy's district? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      this guy is presumably up for re-election.

      It would seem so:

      Latta was re-elected in 2012. He beat Democratic nominee, Angela Zimmann and Libertarian nominee, Eric Eberly. He was endorsed by the United States Chamber of Commerce, the NFIB, the NRA and National Right to Life.

      2012 U.S. House of Representatives Bob Latta Republican Votes: 201,514 (57.27% )

      Angela Zimmann Democratic Votes: 137,806 39.16%

      Eric Eberly Libertarian Votes: 12,558 3.57%

      Ballotpedia: 2014 candidates: Ohio's 5th Congressional district:

      Incumbent: Bob Latta, Democratic: Robert Fry, Libertarian: Eric Eberly

  16. Campaign laws? by chromaexcursion · · Score: 1

    US campaign laws are tissue paper.
    SO thin you wouldn't want to wipe with them.

  17. Re:So, in slashdot world, apparently... by whistlingtony · · Score: 1

    and you managed to turn your post into an obamacare post... great job. Stay on topic.

    History lesson: ISPs were regulated as common carriers. Things were good. competition existed. The FCC reclassified. They ISPs started pulling shenanigans. They FCC said to stop. Verizon took the FCC to court. The judges said "hey man, YOU classified them as information services, just reclassify them as common carriers". The FCC didn't do that. Now we're fucked.

    It's in the nature of any large organization to aim for monopoly power. That's what corporations do, if they can get away with it. Microsoft did it. Intel did it. Verizon is doing it. Comcast is doing it. Etc etc etc. I know you hate government, but it does serve a purpose. There is a balance to be struck here. We do need cops. We do need laws. We need those laws to work toward the betterment of our society.

    No one is proposing a government takeover. We're simply proposing we go back to the laws we had that worked well. Now we have NO laws, and it's pretty shitty.

    Also, seriously, you don't need to turn everything into an Obamacare discussion. Sheesh.