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$10k Reward For Info On Anyone Who Points a Laser At Planes Goes Nationwide

coondoggie writes: "The FBI today said it was making national a pilot program it tried out in 12 locations earlier this year that offers up to $10,000 for information leading to the arrest of anyone who intentionally aims a laser at an aircraft. According to the FBI, the pilot locations have seen a 19% decrease in the number of reported laser-to-aircraft incidents. Those locations included: Albuquerque, Chicago, Cleveland, Houston, Los Angeles, New York City, and Philadelphia."

48 of 264 comments (clear)

  1. Profit! by Darth+Muffin · · Score: 5, Funny

    1) Aim laser pointer at my own plane, parked in a hangar. 2) Turn myself in for "intentionally aiming a laser at an aircraft" 3) Profit!

    --
    Real programmers use "copy con program.exe"
    1. Re:Profit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      1) Aim laser pointer at my own plane, parked in a hangar.
      2) Turn myself in for "intentionally aiming a laser at an aircraft"
      3) Profit!

      4) Serve up to 5 years in prison and pay a fire of up to $250,000
      5) Be unemployable with a prison record.

      Brilliant plan there, sport. Go for it.

    2. Re:Profit! by durrr · · Score: 3, Funny

      Pay homeless people $100 to point lasers at airplanes while recording them.

    3. Re:Profit! by jbmartin6 · · Score: 2

      I expect they could get you under RICO

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    4. Re:Profit! by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 2

      I expect there are many laws that someone who was caught implementing this plan could be convicted under. A crucial part of the plan was not getting caught.

    5. Re:Profit! by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

      A crucial part of the plan was not getting caught.

      A crucial part of the plan is identifying yourself to the police as someone who knows about a crime and turning someone else in. That pretty much rules out "not getting caught" as any significant concern, since if nobody gets caught you don't get the reward.

    6. Re:Profit! by mythosaz · · Score: 2

      In Texas, sure.

  2. Re:What if you point a friken shark? by plover · · Score: 4, Funny

    One Hundred BILLION dollars!

    --
    John
  3. huh by Charliemopps · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You'd think they'd have just put polarized glass in the cockpit by now if it were that big of a deal. Oh wait... that's right, it's not that big of a deal.

    Why do we continue to allow things like this to get blown so far out of proportion that we end up sending 16yr olds to prison for something that never really had a chance to do harm to anyone in the first place? A landing aircraft is moving faster than freeway traffic at it's slowest. Without computer control and actuators there is no way a person could, by hand, hold a laser on a cockpit window for more than a tenth of a second. If a pilot is unable to land a plane after a flash of light that brief, we'd better start making lightening illegal because it's a hell of a lot brighter, and more common than a laser strike.

    1. Re:huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Fear mongering does not need to be rational, this is citizen training so that they hear and see how rewarding it can be to turn in people for cash.

    2. Re:huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Polarized glass will do nothing. The issue with the laser is that, by time it reaches the plane, it's spread a fair amount. When it hits the glass of the cockpit, which has various minuscule scratches and dirt and whatnot, it gets lit up like a Christmas tree. Polarized glass will suffer the same fate. It's the dirt and imperfections that blind the pilot.

    3. Re: huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Prove it. Can you name one instance where an aircraft was brought down by someone shining a laser pointer at it? I wanna read an actual NTSB report that says pilot blindness caused by an ordinary retail store bought laser pointer located on the ground resulted in a subsequent crash. There's no such thing.

    4. Re:huh by Drago3711 · · Score: 5, Informative

      You'd think they'd have just put polarized glass in the cockpit by now if it were that big of a deal. Oh wait... that's right, it's not that big of a deal.

      If it were as simple as polarized glass they might actually go that route. Unfortunately for everyone, it is much more complicated than that. You need specific lenses to protect from specific wavelengths (of which there are many).

      [...] hold a laser on a cockpit window for more than a tenth of a second. If a pilot is unable to land a plane after a flash of light that brief, we'd better start making lightening illegal because it's a hell of a lot brighter [...]

      With high powered lasers (that are surprisingly easy to come by) a fraction of a second is all it takes to cause serious and often permanent eye injury.

    5. Re:huh by dinfinity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      QFT, last year I sat in the cockpit during an evening landing in Egypt (Sharm-el-sheik) and where I had previously dismissed the whole pointing lasers thing, that landing quickly brought me around. Granted, pilots generally land on the instruments anyway, but looking out the windows was certainly not an option anymore because of the effect the laser pointers had on the canopy.

      One of the things I had always wondered (and asked the pilots) was 'Who would do such a thing? What do they gain from it?' until we were walking around in the (touristic) city centre at night. Tons of shops that sold massively overpowered laser pointers and more importantly: lots of small kids waving those things around.

    6. Re:huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      and what about the rotary winged aircraft (helicopters) where normally it would be incredibly hard to polarize such complex glass surfaces. Those aircraft also fly closer to the ground meaning that the flash of light is much more intense. they also are not normally moving at speed and hovering making it easier to aim said light at the cockpit and longer flashes of laser light can blind or ruin a pilots career.

      Way to jump to conclusions. every think why New York City was a pilot location? if you read the fbi site it even mentions helicopters..

      also consider that up there there isnt as much ambient light as down here. so when even a momentary flash of intense light down here may not cause such huge a problem, up in the air where the pilots pupils are fully dialiated it can be even worse.

      do some research on the issue before you jump to conclusions.. or better yet go fly an aircraft (fixed or rotary wing)

    7. Re:huh by Charliemopps · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Because in Egypt the military was using aircraft and snipers to shoot protesters. So it's common there now to "lase" aircraft to point them out to other people so they know to take cover.

      http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/wwfeat...
      http://static2.businessinsider...
      http://s3files.core77.com/blog...
      http://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/...

      Notice there are hundreds of lasers on these things... yet there's a a surprising lack of blind pilots or aircraft crashing into crowds.

      Yes, it's technically possible this could hard the pilot. But practically? Not very likely. These pilots circled the crowds for hours every night for months with hundreds of lasers trained on them the entire time without incident.

    8. Re:huh by geekoid · · Score: 2

      Completely blind the flight crew during lift off or landing isn't a 'big deal'? heicopterpilots that have there eyes damaged is no big deal?

      Please, please try to understand why polarized glass would not solve this problem.

      "cockpit window for more than a tenth of a second. "
      which is all you need to lose focus and be distracted as is, can see the instruments. sure, it's may only be for 4 or 5 seconds, but by then you have hit the ground.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    9. Re:huh by Your.Master · · Score: 3

      So we have to wait until the average slashdotter knows people who have been blinded by lasers in order to do anything about it? I don't know anybody who was seriously injured because somebody threw a tennis ball at them out of a fast-moving vehicle without realising that their throw speed plus the speed of the car made for a fairly high velocity. This is still illegal and dangerous and reportable. I don't think there's a 10000 dollar reward for it, and I don't know how common it is compared to aircraft lasering, but I do support taking measures against it because I know it happens a nontrivial amount of time (the extent of the measures can be debated). These things aren't just potentially harmful, they're aggressively and unnecessarily harmful. We're not talking about making it illegal to blow bubblegum bubbles because it might pop and then a little bit might splash into the mouth of somebody else with a deadly bubblegum allergy. We're talking about pointing lasers at aircraft generally for reasons of dickishness.

    10. Re:huh by geekoid · · Score: 3, Informative

      10,000 is a good number becasue it will raise awareness; which is what causes the real decline. People, many posting on slashdot, are really clueless about the impact a laser can have on a flight deck, and on pilots. So you need to get there attention some how.

      and here.

      http://www.pangolin.com/faa/la...

      You should look into this great tool called 'Google'

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    11. Re:huh by Obfuscant · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ok, wheres your studies to prove this?

      You need a study to know that laser pointers are non-polarized and that shining a bright, non-polarized light through a polarizing filter doesn't stop the light from passing through? And even if the filter is 100% efficient, which none of them are, you only cut 1/2 the light that passes, and none of the light that lights up the crazing or other imperfections in the windows.

      Remember, we're talking about sending stupid per-pubesent teenagers to prison.

      No, we're talking about a $10,000 reward for information about people committing a crime.

      I'm not saying they shouldn't get in trouble. I'm saying $10,000 rewards are insanely excessive.

      Do you not know the difference between a fine, which is punishment for the criminal, and a reward, which isn't?

      Trying to pass laws that make being young and stupid illegal haven't worked very well in the past.

      Too late. It is already against the law to point a laser pointer at an aircraft. The law says nothing about "young and stupid people who point laser pointers", it covers old and smart people too. And if you think that pointing a laser pointer at an airplane will make it "fall out of the sky", you're wrong.

    12. Re:huh by geekoid · · Score: 2

      it happens all the time.
      here is a pilot that ahd eye damage?
      http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/he...
      http://www.wfaa.com/news/local...

      Permanently blinded? I don't know. Temp blinded, often.
      There are hundreds of cases.

      Learn to fucking use Google.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    13. Re:huh by Obfuscant · · Score: 5, Interesting

      ok, and how many people do you know that have been permanently blinded by a laser? Any?

      Yes. And your implication that it is ok to temporarily blind someone who relies on "see and avoid" to keep from running into other traffic is just pathetic.

      How about this? It took all of five seconds to find using Google.

      I can't even find anything on a lab experiment gone wrong or military laser accident. Nothing.

      Why yes, of course, every lab accident makes the 11 o'clock news so you can find out about it.

      The only thing I can find are articles from pilots complaining, and they have an understandable axe to grind.

      Yeah, I supposed it's a surprise that people who are the targets of attempts to blind them, even temporarily, might have "an axe to grind" with those people.

      But what's the practical chance of that happening?

      It's documented fact. The chance of a documented fact happening is not "damn near 0".

      You're worried about people going to prison for trying to blind a pilot of an aircraft carrying upwards of 200 passengers? Here's the simple way to avoid it: DON'T SHINE A LASER POINTER AT AN AIRPLANE. Problem solved.

      OT: what the hell is wrong with /. today? It keeps telling me I'm not logged in and it ignores the "ads disabled" flag completely? Five different views of the same discussion in five tries at reading it.

    14. Re:huh by Obfuscant · · Score: 2, Informative

      no it doesn't and i say that being someone that's shined lasers through glass many times.

      Many cockpit windows are not glass, they are plexiglass. Glass is very heavy. Plexiglass tends to pick up lots of micro-scratches from improper, and even proper, cleaning, and it crazes over time from stress and sunlight. Even properly cleaned plexiglass cockpit windows suffer from glare and light splatter, and after a short bit of time during a flight they can have a lot of insect dirt on them, too.

      and i can guarantee a plane's cockpit window is much cleaner than the windows i'm talking about.

      I don't know how you can guarantee any such thing unless you are personally cleaning every one of them prior to each flight, and I can guarantee that you aren't doing that.

    15. Re:huh by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Insightful

      http://www.usnews.com/news/art...

      14yrs in prison. Most people in prison for HOMICIDE serve half that.

      This is the definition of unfair sentencing .

    16. Re:huh by mpicpp · · Score: 2

      A laser is more highly focused than lightning, so your theory is problematic. And how many times is lightning aimed a cockpit? http://www.laserpointersafety.... Here is a description of an incident of lighting blinding a pilot, causing the loss of control and 25 deaths: http://avstop.com/news/strikeb...

    17. Re:huh by HeckRuler · · Score: 2

      Go to Cairo, breath the leaded-gas fume encrusted air, fight off the wandering dogs, dodge traffic, learn that their more important industry is tourism of all things and that it's on shaky grounds with the country undergoing political turmoil, that their whole economy is tanking, that the nation's credit rating is falling, and then reflect on the need to keep laser pointers out of the hands of children.

      I mean, I get the sentiment. That some of these kids are going to look into the things and have their vision damaged. And that's sad. And you feel for these kids.

      But it's like commenting on a guy's stubbed toe when he's currently bleeding out from a gunshot wound mid-revolution. Because holy shit have you BEEN to Egypt?

    18. Re:huh by Obfuscant · · Score: 2, Insightful

      14yrs in prison.

      Good. You picked a perfect example of your "young and stupid" "pre-pubescent" teenager here. A 26 year old deliberately trying to down a police helicopter, and his twenty-something girlfriend, who were probably the same source of the laser used to attack a hospital transport helicopter that the police were looking for.

      Most people in prison for HOMICIDE serve half that.

      Citation required, and so what? He was trying to kill a cop. Deliberately. After trying to kill people who fly in a hospital helicopter.

      This is the definition of unfair sentencing .

      I think it is quite fair. It will send a message that doing this kind of thing isn't a game to people like you who think that all it takes is "polarizing filters" installed on every aircraft so "pre-pubescent teens" can have their fun interfering with the pilots of aircraft, who have no real complaint because there aren't rampant stories about blind pilots and aircraft "falling out of the sky". (Free clue: if a pilot is blinded by a laser and his aircraft "falls out of the sky" and he dies in the subsequent crash, who is going to tell the NTSB the crash took place because of the laser? How many passengers have to go down with him before protecting pilots from temporary blindness from idiots is a good idea in your mind?)

      The story here is about expanding the use of $10,000 REWARDS (not fines) to help catch people who endanger innocent people. I guess, since you didn't answer the question, you really don't understand the difference between "reward" and "fine", or how polarizing filters work, and that the idea of temporary blindness for a pilot in command of an aircraft isn't a problem for you.

    19. Re:huh by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

      Non zero incidents of pilots injured by lasers says you are wrong.

      http://newyork.cbslocal.com/20...

    20. Re: huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Do we always have to wait for people to get killed before doing something?

      Does not seem very smart to me.

      Some Accidents/Incidents: (Accidents because pilots were hurt, even if minor)

      Kelowna B722 at Regina on May 13th 2013, laser beam incapacitates first officer
      http://avherald.com/h?article=46251419&opt=0

      American B752 at San Juan on Nov 16th 2012, laser beam injures pilot
      http://avherald.com/h?article=4594849f&opt=0

      Germanwings A319 near Stuttgart on May 12th 2012, first officer partially incapacitated by laser
      http://avherald.com/h?article=452f4411&opt=0

      Only a wuick search and quite a few more to be found in the same database...

      Sadly enough thats a real problem.

    21. Re:huh by Mr.+Flibble · · Score: 2

      I like the part where you assume you know what his argument is.

      As a passenger coming into Seatac, I got hit in the face with a green laser pointer, we were probably well below 3000 feet. It was bright enough to completely mess up the vision in my left eye for about 30 seconds. Such a lovely neighborhood.

      So, you can argue on the internet all you want about what the divergence of the laser should be, having personally witnessed a green laser in my face during final approach, I can assure you it is capable of messing up your vision.

      --
      Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
    22. Re:huh by qparadox · · Score: 2

      Ahem. Beam divergence. At the distance an aircraft would be from the laser-pointer, the spot will have spread sufficiently that this is not the case.

      Incorrect. Even if the beam has increased significantly in size (to tens of cm), your eye is great at focussing light coming from infinity. This means the intensity at the back of the retina can still be high enough to cause damage. Remember that the pilots are also in the dark so their pupils are fully dilated and their blink reflex may be slowed. With the multi-watt laser pointers available online, its only a matter of time before we see pilots being permanently blinded in these cases. Of course, permanent damage is irrelevant if the plane crashes because the pilot has been temporarily blinded by a lower intensity beam.

  4. Profit! by TsuruchiBrian · · Score: 4, Funny
    1) Find someone who doesn't mind going to jail that much (e.g. a homeless guy, someone with a terminal illness, etc).
    2) Offer to pay him $8K for pointing a laser pointer at a plane and going to jail.
    3) Profit!

    You could probably find a more erratic person willing to take less than $8K of the 10K, but I would imagine you'd want to deal with a fairly rational person who doesn't feel resentment towards you (i.e. for getting ripped off). The goal of this plan is to rip off the government and the tax payer, not the fall guy.

    What the government should do, is offer $20K for turning in the orchestrator of a laser pointer arrest reward scheme.

  5. Does a laser pointer have any noticeable effect? by maliqua · · Score: 2

    I can't imagine it would have any real affect or we'd read about planes falling out of the sky left and right all over the world.

  6. Pointing lasers at UFOs is still cool... by WormholeFiend · · Score: 2

    right? Right?

  7. Re:Off the Flight Path... by MozeeToby · · Score: 4, Insightful

    [...]offers up to $10,000 for information leading to the arrest of anyone who intentionally aims a laser at an aircraft.

  8. Re:Off the Flight Path... by heypete · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Planes get lost, re-routed etc ALL the time.

    Think a nightclub with laser advertising, plane flies overhead, or helicopter.

    Can they be punished?

    Major astronomical telescopes often use lasers for their adaptive optics systems. They coordinate with relevant authorities to insure they don't zap sensitive optics on satellites and post "plane spotters" outside so they can shut down the laser if a plane comes too close to the beam.

    Of course, those lasers tend to be considerably more powerful (>5W) than handheld laser pointers (~5mW), so it might not be directly comparable, but I'd hope that any organization that is shooting lasers into the sky would have someone keeping an eye out for aircraft.

  9. This is getting so old. by anolisporcatus · · Score: 2

    Why do the decision makers in this country have an insatiable urge to ruin everything for everyone by making needles, useless, delusion, meaningless legislation that makes our culture, our lives, our freedoms the governments issue, make normal every day illegal? It is so ludicrous, like one person stated, why do we have such a strange system in which 16 year olds, young, respectable people with futures going to jail for YEARS for stupid frivolous crap, this overly litigated country we live in now is becoming a nightmare, I read recently over FORTY-THOUSAND laws were passed last year alone, do you know what any of them are? I don't.

    1. Re:This is getting so old. by Shados · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Its a knee jerk overreaction to people being so freagin retarded in this country. If you don't have laws, enforced laws, with teeth, people do whatever to the full extent of what is allowed, with no common sense whatsoever.

      Now, everywhere in the world has that issue, but just not to the full extent the US has it (as far as the "first world" goes). I've lived in multiple countries for a number of years, and now I'm in the US, and its just shocking. People smoking while leaning on a no-smoking sign. People screaming on top of their lungs in the street at 3 in the morning. People letting their dog bark for hours while cheering it on. Lines while waiting at a busy bus stop? Hell no! If there's no risk of jail time, not only someone will do it, but a LOT of people will do it.

      And people pointing laser pointers at anything and everything.

      Its such a ridiculous society that doesn't give a flying duck about their neighbor. EVER. So you end up in a world where everything has to be fucking spelled out with someone in uniform wacking them behind the head all the time like little babies, or they won't apply the slightest bit of common sense.

    2. Re:This is getting so old. by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Informative

      This one isn't frivolous. It has put pilots and crew in the hospital with eye burns.

      http://www.wfaa.com/news/local...

      http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/he...

      While it hasn't led to air crashes YET it is still a serious form of assault on someone in a critical position.

      Some states still have the death penalty for attacking a first responder. Something to think about.

  10. Re:Off the Flight Path... by gweihir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Laser advertising needs special permissions and is either focused at a billboard, wall, etc, or if aimed at the sky under permanent direct control of an expert and only permissible with similar restrictions as fireworks. Your question is stupid.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  11. That is not how you go to prison. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 2
    There are well documented ways to go to jail for hot meals and the cot. Throw a brick through the store window, or eat in an expensive restaurant without money to pay for the meal, or steal an umbrella or pretend to be publicly intoxicated, or harass a woman, or as a measure of last resort, loiter.

    What the world is coming to now a days, lasers and aircraft.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:That is not how you go to prison. by camperdave · · Score: 3, Funny

      None of those net you $5K though.

      Depends on the umbrella.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  12. A first-hand perspective for the doubters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm an airline pilot who has been lased three times, and I'm probably one of the only pilots in the country to have also earned a degree as a laser technician. With these credentials I was chosen to represent my airline at the ALPA Laser Illumination Conference in 2011. http://laserconference.alpa.or... The threat is real. It's easy to dismiss it as a "what are the odds" type of event, but the truth is that it happens far too frequently. People can buy these 1+ watt diode lasers very easily online and do with them what they will, and they frequently choose to point them at airplanes. What does it look like in the cockpit? Pretty much like an intense green strobe effect. And the worst thing is that once the light is seen the first time it's human instinct to look out the window to try and find the cause of the flash. Then the second blast hits as the pilot is looking directly at it. Depending on altitude and beam divergence, there's a real possibility of permanent eye damage. The lower to the ground, the more likely the damage. At night a pilot's vision is kept adapted to the ambient light in the cockpit, so their pupils are dilated to allow more light in. This also increases likelihood of damage. Flash blindness can last for many minutes, and it's a very bad thing to have your pilots flash blinded. It is a real issue, and having personally experienced it, I can say it's a problem.

  13. Wow! by Petersko · · Score: 2

    "One Hundred BILLION dollars!"

    It just occurred to me that when the movie came out a hundred billion was a lot of dollars.

    How quaint.

  14. Re:Off the Flight Path... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    5mW at an area of 1mm^2 corresponds to 50W at an area of 100cm^2.
    This means that looking into a 5mW laser, and assuming it is concentrated in 1mm^2, corresponds to looking at a 50W lightbulb at a distance of 2.82cm.
    Ouch.

  15. Re:Off the Flight Path... by riverat1 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Just because the light isn't visible doesn't mean it's not harmful. After all, it's the invisible to you ultraviolet light from the Sun that gives you a sunburn.

  16. Re:Off the Flight Path... by camperdave · · Score: 3, Informative

    The primary thing that makes lasers harmful to planes is that the brightness temporarily blinds the pilot. It's like looking directly at the flash from a camera, or an oncoming car's high beams at night. invisible frequencies don't cause temporary blindness (although prolonged exposure can cause permanent damage).

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  17. Re:Off the Flight Path... by camperdave · · Score: 2

    The adaptive optics are run by computers. They could be programmed to compensate for any "chromatic" aberration induced by the frequency difference. However, the visibility or invisibility of the laser is not the real issue. The real issue is that the adaptive optics work by calibrating a flexible mirror based on light received from a reference star. The laser creates an artificial reference star by exciting sodium vapour high in the upper atmosphere, causing it to glow. The laser must therefore be tuned to a specific frequency, or the sodium vapour doesn't glow. No glow, no reference star. No reference star, no adaptive optics.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!