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High Frequency Trading and Finance's Race To Irrelevance

hype7 (239530) writes 'The Harvard Business Review is running a fascinating article on how finance is increasingly abstracting itself — and the gains it makes — away from the creation of value in the real world, and how High Frequency Trading is the most extreme version of this phenomenon yet. From the article: "High frequency trading is a different phenomenon from the increasing focus on short term returns by human investors. But they're borne from a similar mindset: one in which financial returns are the priority, independent of whether they're associated with something innovative or useful in the real world. What Lewis's book demonstrated to me isn't just how "bad" HFTs are per se, but rather, what happens when finance keeps walking down the path it seems to be set on — a path that involves abstracting itself from the creation of real-world value. The final destination? It will enter a world entirely of its own — a world in which it is fighting to capture value that is completely independent of whether any is created in the first place."'

12 of 382 comments (clear)

  1. This is news? The stock market is a house of cards by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So companies shuffle stocks back and forth millions of times a day and we wonder NOW what the actual productive value is?? The whole dam stock market is based upon "confidence" aka a house of cards. As I like to say "Main St. built America, Wall St. destroyed it."

    There was a good reason that companies were initially prohibited from owning other companies. Greed knows no limit.

    This topic has been covered before in the documentary "The Corporation"
    http://hellocoolworld.com/file...

    2. Birth
    How the corporation came to be. Originally, corporations were set up to serve the public
    good. Corporation lawyers gained rights through the US Supreme Court using the 14th
      Amendment (set up to protect slaves) that gives them the rights of a person. In the last
    century, the corporation is given more and more rights while people are increasingly
    stripped of theirs.

    3. A Legal "Person"
    Having acquired rights of immortal persons, what kind of person is the corporation? By
    law, the corporation can only consider the interests of their shareholders. It is legally
    bound to put its bottom line before everything else, even the public good

    6. The Pathology of Commerce
    If we look at the corporation as a legal person, it exhibits all the characteristics of a
    psychopath using a personality diagnostic checklist by the World Health Organization.

  2. A cautionary tale by 6Yankee · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you have the time (and if you're at work, of course you have the time!), I recommend The Great Hargeisa Goat Bubble. One guy gets his last goat killed by an aircraft so he can claim twice its value from the airport, and it all goes wrong from there.

    Soon the shortage of actual goats led to a booming market in goat futures, goat options and increasingly arcane goat derivative products. This trade in young, unborn, and even theoretical goats allowed yet more money into a market whose only bottle-neck or brake up to this time had been the physical shortage of actual goats.

    ...until the whole thing comes crashing down.

  3. Re:Mmhmm by alexander_686 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Errr.

    Most stocks are held long term by long term investors. A example, as you suggest, are pension funds.
    Most trading is done by short term holders – like HFT.

    This is why in a single year more stocks of a company can trade than have been issued (suggesting huge turnover) yet the majority long term holders barely budge.

  4. Problem with public companies, not HFT by michaelmalak · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The HBR article notes two issues:

    1. HF traders don't participate in stockholder meetings and thus their trades are divorced from steering company direction.

    2. CEOs are focused on next quarter profits and, aside from a few corporate founder CEOs, are not able to have their company innovate.

    The first problem is not specific to HFT. Even buy-and-hold mom and pop cannot influence a stockholder meeting because they don't own enough shares to meaningfully do so. The exception proves the rule: a bunch of Palestinian human rights defenders got together, bought some Caterpillar stock, and got a human rights issue on the agenda. Even with all that effort, the measure did not pass. And it was a large effort in coordinating. Individual stockholders usually do not organize, coordinate and campaign. (The "transaction cost" is too high.)

    The second problem is caused by SEC, SOX and CEO compensation structure, not by HFT. The HBR article suggests without actually accusing that HFT is the cause.

    HFT serves little purpose other than providing market liquidity (and even at that arguably harms it given the flash crash), but it's not to blame for the above two pre-existing problems of today's markets of publicly traded companies.

  5. Asset Bubble verse Rent Seeking by alexander_686 · · Score: 4, Informative

    HFT is an example of rent seeking - where somebody is able to shave some of the economic profit from an activity without doing much of anything. In the HFT case, the US Congress put in a trading rule that caused a little bit of inefficacies in the market and HFT trading ruthless exploits that imposed inefficacies. Those inefficacies will never amount to a fraction a penny per share, but do it millions of times a day..

    Think of it as a 160m dollar a day tax on investors. (the number comes from Lewis's book.)

    See the historical Robber Barons as an example of rent seaking.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...

    1. Re:Asset Bubble verse Rent Seeking by alexander_686 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Rent seeking" is a technical economic term about abusive behavior and not about renting land. The fact that it time skill and money does not matter. Lobbying congress for fat subsides takes "extraordinary amounts of capital and technology" but it is also considered rent seeking behavior.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...

      On to your point. Are there classes of high speed trading that bring value? Yes. I have argued before in Slashdot that high speed trading has drastically cut the cost of trading.

      However, the article reefer's to Lewis's book "Flash Boys". Lewis researches a class of traders that exploit a flaw in the trading system to "front run" trades and shave off a fraction of a penny per share. They do not bring money to the market or liquidity. They bring nothing – they are strictly a tax on the system. Lewis call these trades HFT.

      Before I Lewis's book I held the same position as you. However, this HFT front running is strictly rent seeking, bring no value.

      Personally, I need to figure out better names for the evil "front running" HFT and the good high speed traders.

  6. Re:Mmhmm by DavidHumus · · Score: 4, Informative

    The facts are otherwise. Based on estimates at a talk I was at recently - see the latter part of this (pdf) http://www.orie.cornell.edu/en... - traditional asset management comprises about 20% of trading volume; HFT accounts for over 30% and hedge funds for more than 25%. There may be some HFT done at hedge funds as well, but it's clear that the tail is wagging the dog.

  7. Re:Does it matter? by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's its own bubble, a game played by the upper 5% to enrich themselves and fuck everyone else.

    Actually, 45% of Americans own stock. 77% of Americans with a college degree.

    But feel free to make up any numbers you need to support your conclusions.

  8. Re:Technological solution by alexander_686 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What you are suggesting is book market – expect for the random part. Book markets in recent years have fared worse than quote driven markets – much worse. 5 to 10 cents worse per share – much greater than the fraction of a penny that the HFT steal.

    You might want to a look at IEX. They use a quote driven model with a 350m delay. Lewis have them high praise but even they have had criticisms that they can be exploited.

  9. Now that Lewis's 15 minutes are up... by ggraham412 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...time to spam us all with another article on HFT.

    it allowed the high frequency traders to peek at the ballots others were sending in to the newspaper before they arrived, in turn giving them the ability to cast their votes using information not yet available to the rest of the market.

    Front running is not High Frequency Trading. The existence of front running is not an argument to limit "High Frequency Trading" any more than phishing is an argument to end high speed internet.

    Until people can recognize the difference between front running (a biased ordering of particular market events) and high frequency trading (low latency response to available market data) then there really is no point in responding to this nonsense. Not as much fun as donning the tinfoil hat, I know...

  10. Re:Mmhmm by NevarMore · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Your made up and arbitrary rules will clearly solve a problem which you have not adequately described.

  11. Re:Mmhmm by lgw · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because I understand how markets work. Thin markets suck. Large bid-ask gaps suck. Losing 20% of your investment because you made a typo, and you take a 20% hit just between the best price you can buy for and the best price you can sell for sucks.

    Let the casino gamblers provide liquidity, and rob each other. It doesn't actually cost us anything - in fact, competition between market makers (which is one thing HFT is used for) saves me a non-trivial amount in my once-per-quarter trading. It's much nicer now than even 10 years ago.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.