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After Non-Profit Application Furor, IRS Says It's Lost 2 Years Of Lerner's Email
As reported by the Associated Press, via US News & World Report, the IRS says that it cannot locate much of the email sent by a former IRS official over a two-year period. "The IRS told Congress Friday it cannot locate many of Lois Lerner's emails prior to 2011 because her computer crashed during the summer of that year. Lerner headed the IRS division that processed applications for tax-exempt status. The IRS acknowledged last year that agents had improperly scrutinized applications for tax-exempt status by tea party and other conservative groups." Three congressional committees are investigating the agency because of the allegations of politically motivated mishandling of those applications, as is the Justice Department and the IRS's own inspector general. As the story says, "Congressional investigators have shown that IRS officials in Washington were closely involved in the handling of tea party applications, many of which languished for more than a year without action. But so far, they have not publicly produced evidence that anyone outside the agency directed the targeting or even knew about it." CBS News has a slightly different version, also based on the AP's reporting.
When are we going to get an investigation of Darrell Issa and his empty witch hunts?
I'd love to see what she would say to a taxpayer "losing" 2 years of receipts during an audit.
I think that "my bad" wouldn't be enough.
Do you think they'd take that as an excuse during an audit?
Isn't the default to assume that they said what they were assumed to have said at the worst in these cases.
Only one thing i can say - it's sad, but only words are good for us.
http://www.wordreaders.com
Oh her computer crashed did it? Did you try looking on the server where you keep the mail, and not on her computer?
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
anyone buy that? all the agencies I worked for had everything tracked across multiple machines. big IT contracts to manage the systems, including backups.
What is the source of this information ? By The Way ?
The IRS told Congress Friday it cannot locate many of Lois Lerner's emails prior to 2011 because her computer crashed during the summer of that year.
Wow! I didn't know the IRS had personal email servers on every individuals personal computer, where all copies of a persons email sent and retrieved is kept and deleted from everywhere else.
The rest of us just use shared central email servers where multiple copies of everyone's email is kept, backed up daily. Boy, are we out of touch with reality!
Don't worry. The NSA has it all filed away.
What else can happen when an unstoppable force collides with an immovable object?
Lost your data? It used to be that your dog ate it. Wait, this still hold: the dog ate my mail server. Yeah, he found a way and he did it. He went into the cloud and ate it. What's so unbelievable about that? People believe all kinds of crazy shit and will do your head in if you challenge them.
Yep. Probably an Exchange setup with .pst files saved on the local machine.
Everybody should be depressed and angry but they are complacent. New chief executive, same ole shit. Corruption and lies.
Really love the job you gu
never forget
get these jew fuck's tentacles out of the US economy and put it back into the hands of the US treasury
you know exactly what I'm talking about
Seriously, I have a feeling they set up local email accounts, thought archiving was too difficult or expensive to implement, and called it a day - 20 years ago.
And for the record, targeting political organizations wasn't isolated to conservative groups, and the only application rejected was for a progressive organization.
BOOP!
The classic "My dog ate my homework" defense! Nicely played!
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Clinton was impeached for being a LYING scumbag, not for being a scumbag.
Really, how dumb are you guys?
Come on, it's 2014. And beta. Seriously.
God! This is taking forever. Can we just skip to the burning part of the witch hunt?
Yes,
Just like you can say that there has never been a oil pipeline that has been rejected either. By not quickly approving simple applications and letting them linger for years - you effectively reject the application, without the political backlash of having to actually do it. I would assume it was a simple progressive organization that didn't qualify for the tax break - it was quickly rejected so they can fix their problem, or get back to doing what they should be doing.
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
I spec'ed, installed and managed mail servers for several organizations and this never happened on my watch. We had this magical power called "backups" that insulated us from user ineptitude and malfeasance. Another item is the "ten million dollars" to retrieve emails and documents. I was asked to provide several years of emails and documents involving eleven employees and specific criteria for a lawsuit. Legal had it in their hands within two days and that involved pulling and selectively restoring the identified tapes and burning to DVD. I call bullshit.
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."
-- Pablo Picasso
Were those her emails to herself? Otherwise, they went through servers. This isn't a school board email server.... it's the IRS. Does anyone seriously think they don't have copious records of all the documents? My dog ate my homework? If you are gonna post any kind of credible reply to this, don't be an AC. Any AC reply to this will be assume to be coming from the legal staff of the Criminal Democratic Party.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Thanks for fucking the country, liberals. This man has, is, and will continue to do what niggers do best, which is nigger the place up. And it's YOUR fault.
I mean, the man's middle name is "HUSSEIN" for fuck's sake. I know, I know, the only choice was between an old dude and the ludicrous Palin.... or SOMEONE FUCKING NAMED "HUSSEIN". Gee, I wonder what I should do? I know! I'll vote for HUSSEIN!!!!! Better that than someone who thinks they can see Russia from their fucking living room, right? Hawhawhawhaw!!!!
Thanks for helping nigger up the country. It's done. It's finished. And it's YOUR fault.
Lost in this whole discussion is whether the Tea Party deserves tax-exempt status in the first place.
The law says groups granted such status must engage in activities exclusively for the public good.
The IRS guidelines softened that to primarily for the public good.
Arguably, many Tea-Party groups fail both criteria. And probably so do a number of political organizations over the spectrum from left to right.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
I've not read what I'm sure are mounds of news articles about this "scandal" but I suspect that the IRS staff involved decided to audit all partisan groups to make sure they should be 527s instead of 501c3s.
BOOP!
You're right. There are a lot more mod trolls than there used to be. Not as bad as Ars Technica, but getting there.
These days smart people with something to say go the AC route. Or leave for |. or SG.
It's pretty rare for the IRS to retroactively reverse a 501c3 status, except when it fails to file the proper paperwork.
I've not read what I'm sure are mounds of news articles about this "scandal" but I suspect that the IRS staff involved decided to audit all partisan groups to make sure they should be 527s instead of 501c3s.
correction on my part - They were 501c4s, not c3s. (I work with c3s, so I tend to forget other types exist ;)
BOOP!
The NSA are professional liars. They've been caught lying about a huge number of things: spying on friendly foreign leaders, mass phone surveillance on everyone in the USA, modifying routers before they are shipped overseas, etc.
Double standard much? Who is more likely to be lying: the NSA or the IRS? Everyone in Washington are going after the IRS. Committees are meeting, IRA officials are testifying under oath, criminal investigations have been started. Higher ups at the IRA are going to be forced out, and there will be criminal charges. The same thing is also going to occur with the Veteran's Administration scandal.
Meanwhile over at the NSA, the sound of crickets. They claim that their own secret investigations have found they did everything right. Somehow this seems good enough. No one has been called to task. Even the people responsible for letting Snowden get access to all that information seem to be off the hook.
As bad as the IRS and VA situations are, they pale in comparison to the NSA situation and yet nothing has happened as a result. It's business as usual. The NSA is completely unaccountable to anybody for anything, and when they do screw up nothing happens to any insiders. This is guaranteed to result in a culture of incompetence. We are in big trouble.
Why is Snark Required?
Oh. Right. I forgot. Benghahhhhhhzzzzziiiiiii!!!!!
Seriously, just once I would like to see some sort of conversation about the governmental system not devolve into name-calling. It makes it a lot easier to have productive conversations that way :/
BOOP!
Who doesn't run exchange or some form of IMAP, especially in a government function? I smell bullshit.
I propose an experiment. Run one article per day that allows no moderations. I'd suggest it be a political subject, as moderations are useless in those anyway.
I come here for the love
Bullshit, its all irrelevant to the issue at hand. The irs specifically targeted groups they didnt like and asked them to jump through hoops.which were highly illegal. For example you cant ask them for their member list, or if they are religious, all things asked. If they did the same thing to socialsts communists black panthers gay groups women groups or the kkk, id still feel the same, this shouldnt be partisain, unless you beleive it was ok and that makes it ok when the other side has the whitehouse...remember that
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
Do they mean literally down the stairs? Because I'm pretty sure if they simply reboot the computer they can read the emails again.
I find that with a rotation of admins, various screwups, machine upgrades, damaged media, etc. That legacy data tends to just lie around for decades. Generally most data security is during disposal with various mandates such as old hard drives being fed into atomic shredders. But if the server was pulled from the rack and put into a to-be-refurbished pile then it can easily exist in the back of the admin's closet. Or someone doing an inventory will say, "Hey, here is machine 53B, this machine doesn't exist in our list, I wonder what is on it?"
The IRS targeted groups of all political stripes. If you filed for tax-exempt status and it looked based on keywords that you were really a political group, then you got sent for further evaluation.
The IRS reported to Congress that it targeted conservative groups because Congress asked the IRS the question: "Are you targeting conservative non-profits?"
Yet today, years after the fact and investigations into the matter that detailed the broader non-partisan scope of the flagging, we still have the media parroting that this was only about conservative groups.
Two years of emails?!? Nixon only lost 18 1/2 minutes of the Watergate Tapes and he had to resign.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
can be transparent enough when they are black, right?
Seriously, I have a feeling they set up local email accounts, thought archiving was too difficult or expensive to implement, and called it a day - 20 years ago.
Maybe so, but that means that the IRS has not been diligent about obeying the law. They are a government agency and are required to keep records.
As others have said, if you are audited by the IRS, the IRS won't let you get away with saying "Oops, my records were lost, sorry." The IRS must not be allowed to do this.
People must at a minimum be fired with no pension, but probably people should be in prison for this. The IRS has tremendous powers, and in return the IRS is expected to limit its activities to simply collecting the taxes owed. When Nixon asked the IRS to give him dirt on his enemies, they quite rightly told him to fuck off. Now we have found out that the current IRS politicized itself to help Obama. This isn't a fuzzy sort-of technical rules violation... they crossed multiple bright red lines. Prison.
And for the record, targeting political organizations wasn't isolated to conservative groups, and the only application rejected was for a progressive organization.
Absolute fucking bullshit. Either you are misinformed or you are a shill... which is it?
We know that groups with "tea party" and "freedom" in their names were targeted. No such targeting rules were found for groups with "progressive" in their names.
Multiple Tea Party groups were talking to their Congressmen, asking for help. No progressive groups were. That story about progressive groups being targeted is just a retroactive cover-up story, in short, a lie. Are you going to swallow the lie?
The IRS managed to harass and delay and defer the Tea Party for over two years, enough to defang them right before an election. That's tampering with the voting process as the progressive groups were not similarly hampered. Are you not absolutely fucking outraged over this? I am.
The Federal Records Act requires retention of records. That email is a "record" for statutory purposes is a long settled matter. Conducting government business on a system with a retention period of 14 days and no archive is a crime.
It's your banana republic government either deliberately neglecting their obligation to preserve or destroying evidence or both. There aren't any plausible alternatives.
Enjoy.
"Prior to 2011" corresponds to when the Bush administration switched email systems without including an automated archiver.
http://fcw.com/articles/2010/01/19/web-white-house-email-system-details.aspx?m=2
On the other hand, I've worked in NARA and I've worked with Records Officers in cabinet-level agencies and you're smoking some medical grade stuff if you think any but a handful of emails that aren't sent to or from the a White House are required by the FRA to be archived.
There you go. It's all a mistake because republicans tax cuts regulations.
Here's how DSM-IV defines rationalization; "when the individual deals with emotional conflict or internal or external stressors by concealing the true motivations for his or her own thoughts, actions, or feelings through the elaboration of reassuring or self serving but incorrect explanations."
You're exhibiting a symptom of possible metal disorder. Seek help.
Bullshit, its all irrelevant to the issue at hand. The irs specifically targeted groups they didnt like
No, the IRS specifically targeted groups that don't like the IRS. I still think it was wrong (only in the sense that I think the IRS should have applied the same strict scrutiny to other groups), but it's not political to suspect that vocally anti-IRS groups might play fast and lose when it comes to complying with IRS regulations.
Actually they did the same thing to socialist etc. groups. In fact the only group that was actually denied a tax exemption was a progressive church.
But don't let facts bother you.
Amazing how ineffective these intelligence agencies are when the issue in question goes against the absolute power agenda...
So smart. So ethical. And he has binders on everyone, not just women.
You must be so proud.
No, in reality the IRS investigated all groups with political parties and movements in their names, since they're required by law (i.e. Congress) to only allow non-political groups to be granted tax exempt status. And the IRS investigated (and rejected) far more liberal groups than conservative groups. So (1) they were required to investigate political groups, so the investigation was not only proper, it was required by law passed by Congress, and (2) they didn't target Tea Party groups exclusively or even disproportionately.
So what were you complaining about?
Enable 3D printed prosthetics!
First they lied to the congress
Then the US Marshals seizing police Stingray records to keep them out of the ACLU
Now IRS is lying about a certain computer crash in justifying their refusal of disclosing tghe email records of a key IRS employee who was in charge of harassing groups which were affiliated with the so-called "TEA party"
The Obama administration simply does *NOT* respect the rule of law anymore !
Do you think the American populous is that stupid? Maybe we are; we did vote the current potus in twice. :)
Amazing they released the story late Friday afternoon. WEAK
Still using POP, amirite?
if you think any but a handful of emails that aren't sent to or from the a White House are required by the FRA to be archived
Having read the statute, prior to hitting my crack pipe, I see no such "White House" criteria.
You may read the latest revision of the IRS interpretation of the statute here, where you will learn that e-mail — all e-mail — that meets that statutory definition of a "record" must be preserved within either an "electronic recordkeeping system," as defined by the IRS manual and well beyond Lois's broken computer, or "must be printed out and placed in the appropriate record system." Any e-mail communication Lois made regarding the disposition of some non-profit's status would obviously have qualified as a "record" under the plain language of 1.15.6-1.
And yes, we do prosecute people for destruction of government records. Probably not the protected political appointee hatchet-people of the powers-that-be, but it does happen, because it's criminal.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
/church lady
The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
You are one of those useful idiots easily manipulated by the left wing media. What you just said above is all so wrong.
Actually, you're not required to keep records to respond to speculative FOIA requests. FOIA just requires you provide responsive documents, if you have them.
Records retention is a whole different matter.
There will be a specific request for retention of emails, for example, in connection with a lawsuit.
If we take an objective look at the matter, there actually is a good reason to give extra scrutiny to the tea party applications, as well as applications from many other political groups. The tea party is a group that openly advocates for people to do everything they can to get out of paying taxes; including cases where tea party members advise people to not send in any forms to the IRS at all.
And what is the job of the IRS? In case you have forgotten, they are tasked with collecting taxes. If someone is not paying taxes, the IRS is responsible to do everything within their powers to collect those owed taxes.
This is no different from the DEA paying extra attention to NORML.
I know that slashdot has taken a very conservative lean in the past ~10 years. But this nonsense is just silly. Furthermore one thing it most definitely is not is technology related.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
So you aren't counting the plethora of conservative groups that are still jumping through hoops, waiting on a decision, 3 years later?
Do you really mean to tell me that the IRS uses an email system that keeps the only copy of a user's email on the user's PC, and the user's PC isn't backed up? In the era of records laws, retention requirements, etc?
Not quite.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Umm, we're complaining about some coxsucker government that tells pathetic lies about destruction of evidence because they actually believe the rest of us are as stupid as you.
See? that's the real problem. We know the government is full of lying cheating criminal sociopaths - to the man. What we resent is being held contemptible by lying cheating criminal sociopaths. YOU go ahead and bend over and take it - asshole.
Is there any chance that you watched Newsroom and thought it was brilliant?
It reminds me of a scene from Firefly:
Inara: Does it seem every supply store on every border planet has the same five rag dolls and the same wood carvings of... What is this, a duck?
Kaylee: It's a swan. I like it.
Inara: You do?
Kaylee: Looks like it was made with, you know, longing. Made by a person really longed to see a swan.
Inara: Perhaps because they'd only heard of them by rough description.
Newsroom's writers know Republicans by rough description (and Jeff Bridges is the vomit-inducing carved swan), much like your knowledge of the Tea Party phenomenon.
Actually they did the same thing to socialist etc. groups. In fact the only group that was actually denied a tax exemption was a progressive church.
But don't let facts bother you.
BULLSHIT
The Internal Revenue Service on Friday apologized for targeting groups with “tea party” or “patriot” in their names, confirming long-standing accusations by some conservatives that their applications for tax-exempt status were being improperly delayed and scrutinized.
Lois G. Lerner, the IRS official who oversees tax-exempt groups, said the “absolutely inappropriate” actions by “front-line people” were not driven by partisan motives.
Umm, yeah, the IRS didn't target them. That's why they apologized. And no, it wasn't for political purposes. That must be the IRS can't find her emails....
What was that about facts bothering you?
You knowq most of us which DO have real work, get a lot of email circulating. On our account we may have maybe 128 Mb maybe 256 Mb of place available. EVen if it was 1 Gb. Well whoopy duh. After a year or two you usually have to move email ina rchival because no matter what you will reach your server max capacity. And guess where those archive are ? Archival are a local file, not a server file. You can set it up to have backup but so far I have known of no normal department which does that.
And by the way the thing you all accuse to being fishy ? hapenned to me at work. Once my HD broke down, I lost all archived email which were older than soemthing like 1 month.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Actually they did the same thing to socialist etc. groups. In fact the only group that was actually denied a tax exemption was a progressive church.
But don't let facts bother you.
No, they didn't harass even a single progressive group. Not one. There were other groups that were legitimately denied, or approved, tax-exempt status during that same period. It's not like only conservative groups were founded during those two years, after all. But NONE of the progressive groups, not even the denied group you quote, was asked for the member lists, donor lists, mailing lists, names of associates, etc. None of the progressive groups had data illegally shared with private media organizations, or the SEC, or the FBI.
And being denied means you get a reason, and can appeal. Waiting forever? There's no legal recourse to deal with that. It's worse than denial.
Remember, Lerner is the one who said "The process is the punishment."
It destroyed evidence - and go fuck yourself.
Some congressional hearings are short and to the point.
What do you know about "the Tea Party phenomenon" that this guy doesn't?
No, in reality the IRS investigated all groups with political parties and movements in their names, since they're required by law (i.e. Congress) to only allow non-political groups to be granted tax exempt status. And the IRS investigated (and rejected) far more liberal groups than conservative groups
They claimed this at first, but then their IG had to retract it when they discovered it wasn't true.
More democrat lies & corruption!!! Anyone in an Information Technology job in the United States is likely to be familiar with the email retention laws and expectations of our rouge government! For our rogue government to tell us they have not complied with their own regulations - is a lie!
No, in reality the IRS investigated all groups with political parties and movements in their names, since they're required by law (i.e. Congress) to only allow non-political groups to be granted tax exempt status. And the IRS investigated (and rejected) far more liberal groups than conservative groups. So (1) they were required to investigate political groups, so the investigation was not only proper, it was required by law passed by Congress, and (2) they didn't target Tea Party groups exclusively or even disproportionately.
So what were you complaining about?
WRONG
A bushel of Pinocchios for IRS’s Lois Lerner
In the days since the Internal Revenue Service first disclosed that it had targeted conservative groups seeking tax-exempt status, new information has emerged from both the Treasury inspector general’s report and congressional testimony Friday that calls into question key statements made by Lois G. Lerner, the IRS’s director of the exempt organizations division.
The clumsy way the IRS disclosed the issue, as well as Lerner’s press briefing by phone, were seen at the time as a public relations disaster. But even so, it is worth reviewing three key statements made by Lerner and comparing them to the facts that have since emerged.
The Pinocchio Test
In some ways, this is just scratching the surface of Lerner’s misstatements and weasely wording when the revelations about the IRS’s activities first came to light on May 10. But, taken together, it’s certainly enough to earn her four Pinocchios.
Four Pinocchios
Just in case you were wondering, the Washington Post rates "Four Pinocchios" thusly:
Four Pinocchios
Whoppers.
And "Four Pinocchios" is as bad as it gets. Their scale doesn't go to five.
Why do you think that post was anonymous? There is a reason.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
>The IRS, in particular, expects taxpayers to keep records FOREVER (or until you die and your will is probated)
What? Where are you getting this nonsense? The IRS does not expect you to keep records for your *entire life*. That's absolute moronic drivel. In fact, the IRS doesn't require you to do *anything*; it's congress that writes the tax code. Not just a different entity, a completely different branch of government. The IRS isn't some extra-legal entity that makes up their own rules to inflict on citizens and delights in making them difficult.
Anyway, you're required to keep records until the audit window for tax returns dependent on those records expires, no longer. Rarely will an individual have to keep any record of any kind longer than 7 years after the last filing year that record affected; the vast majority of records can be destroyed after no more than 4 years, and almost all people can fit the documents they're required to keep longer than 7 years in a single manilla folder (if they have any at all).
Are you just one of those people who think the IRS are evil because of your strict constructionist views, or something? Maybe you live in a compound in Idaho? Because this whole "IRS is evil and seeks out ways to fuck and/or control the average taxpayer in service of XYZ political force" notion is just so fucking far from the truth I seriously wonder what kind of willful ignorance or bizarre lies someone must experience to believe it.
and explain to them what happened during the time you "lost" two years of records once and see what happens.
Lawlessness, Usurpers and Destroyers.
If there is any justice in this Universe the IRS and its minions will be utterly destroyed, hopefully before they destroy EVERYTHING.
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
Because this whole "IRS is evil and seeks out ways to fuck and/or control the average taxpayer in service of XYZ political force" notion is just so fucking far from the truth I seriously wonder what kind of willful ignorance or bizarre lies someone must experience to believe it.
Taxes have long been the favorite tool of Federal Government to step outside of its originally intended boundaries. Sometimes this is done for good reasons (bringing down Al Capone), sometimes it's done for social engineering (everything from the mortgage interest deduction to the ACA's individual mandate), and other times it's done for paternalistic reasons (marijuana was originally regulated via tax stamps, similar to the way machine guns and destructive devices are currently regulated)
Regardless of which side of the political spectrum you fall on, you ought to be able to acknowledge the dangers of centralized power, for it's only a matter of time before the other side wields that power.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
>The IRS, in particular, expects taxpayers to keep records FOREVER (or until you die and your will is probated) What? Where are you getting this nonsense? The IRS does not expect you to keep records for your *entire life*. That's absolute moronic drivel. In fact, the IRS doesn't require you to do *anything*; it's congress that writes the tax code. Not just a different entity, a completely different branch of government. The IRS isn't some extra-legal entity that makes up their own rules to inflict on citizens and delights in making them difficult.
There are approximately 2600 pages of tax law. That generated over 70,000 pages of tax regulations - which the IRS essentially wrote themselves and enforce. To a large extent, they did make up their own rules.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
I'd love to see what she would say to a taxpayer "losing" 2 years of receipts during an audit.
Its better than that. Imagine if you only lost the receipts that were of interest to the IRS, that you still have many receipts that they are not interested in.
From the article:
"Camp's office said the missing emails are mainly ones to and from people outside the IRS, "such as the White House, Treasury, Department of Justice, FEC, or Democrat offices.""
Can we just have a flat tax (that phases in at the poverty line, not literally flat) and no deductions? Then the IRS can be scaled down to a small fraction of its current size and have very little power, no deduction no power to interpret things. As an added bonus it removes a major source of political corruption, the creating of those deductions for influential constituents.
Nixon got impeached for 18 minutes of tapes. Two years of email are missing. Just sayin'.
Then you know shit about the federal government. They stopped using exchange sometime back after the fiasco with the Navy and NMCI. As for targeting political organizations, they'll never let a true forensics team in there because they are two-faced liars. Also, when you're denied an application and simply not responded to for five years whatsoever, most normal people see that as the brushoff.
None of the 3 progressive groups on the list where singled out for extra scrutiny . They where never asked any probing questions. I think one was denied but it wasn't the result of asking questions there was something wrong with their paper work which may even have been fixed. Remember, the conservative 501C are in legal limbo and many of them are reporting a full federal crack down on anything related to them aka companies they own are having federal inspectors that they have never see before applying. But truly damning, is that if the IRS wanted to crack down on 501Cs that where operating manly as political tools instead of for the public "good" they would have gone after existing 501C but since those were manly left wing in ideology it they didn't. Plus, it's a lot easy to prove someone is violating the tax law then trying to figure out who might be violate the tax laws in the future.
BTW, I am all in favor of ending tax exempt status for charities for the reason that it gives the state too much power over those charities. Churches should be able to say what they think of political candidates and measures just like the idiots on TV do all the time.
The IRS probably still has Exchange server logs with message-IDs, recipients, timestamps and message sizes.
Some mail recipients may still have copies of the 'lost' emails filed away -- either emails themselves, or portions forwarded, replied to, or otherwise quoted in some manner. Server logs will make this known.
People like Rumsfeld etc came back like zombies from previous administrations so I don't think such a way to close off arguments is a good idea. We'll be seeing ghosts of the various Bush administrations haunting things for a while - for example, one of George H. Bush's staffers very fresh out of his studies, Chris Vein, was the guy that personally fucked up the Terry Childs situation yet is now the CIO at the World Bank!
If anything the current administration should face criticism for continuing some practices that fly in the face of the rule of law and it makes no sense to apply a cutoff date to a continuing situation. Don't let tribalism and cheering for your team cloud judgement.
So, uh, you're saying the conservative groups were all approved? THEY WERE HELD IN LIMBO - NEITHER APPROVED OR DENIED.
I'm sick of Obamabots.
So (1) they were required to investigate political groups, so the investigation was not only proper, it was required by law passed by Congress, and (2) they didn't target Tea Party groups exclusively or even disproportionately.
You are, to put it simply, lying.
The agency deliberately put conservative groups through a years-long tedium of intrusive personal questions. They asked them, for example, about what books their members were reading. Progressive non-profits were ushered through the system in a fraction of the time, while conservative groups were delayed and intimidated as a matter of policy (you know, the very thing the IRS "apologized" for deliberately doing to specific groups).
Your contentions have been thoroughly debunked, which you have to know. Which makes your post anything but the "informative" that it's been modded, since you're being purposefully deceptive.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Because the IRS scrutinized ALL political groups, not just conservative ones, and rejected more liberal ones than conservative. The so-called IRS scandal is a non-issue, and this is just a matter of bad IT. You know, like exists in every single large corporation in the world. Major banks lose oodles of emails ALL THE TIME.
Emails get accidentally "erased" all the time. The idea that corporations retain all emails is a myth. There barely any discovery these days that doesn't include the phrase "we could not find those emails because our (systems crashed|hard drives failed|staff can't wipe their own asses)". The problem with that excuse is that the vast majority of the time, it's true. If you want to see some truly appalling IT procedures, set foot in any IT department of any large corporation, especially those of banks. This idea that the private sector is this efficient, perfect machine whereas government is a den of bumbling idiots is laughable on its face. All large organizations have massive holes in their IT infrastructure, not the least because most of the people running these departments HAVEN'T DONE ANY REAL WORK IN THE FIELD IN A DECADE OR MORE. The truth is that most CTOs are dinosaurs, technologically, that can't understand the first thing their staff is doing.
Don't ever make the mistake of mixing up small and medium companies where people at the top still have to get their hands dirty once in a while, and large corporations, where the people at the top are so far removed from actual operations that they are barely able to send an email without help from their secretaries.
LOL. That will have the wing nuts frothing at the mouth. BENGHAZI!!
The IRS investigated political fund raising groups that applied for credentials. Since the vast bulk of these outfits were right wing the bulk of inquiries fell upon the right wing. If more left wing groups had applied then more left wing groups would have been under scrutiny. The IRS was simply doing exactly what they should have been doing. It does not help them one bit that it is known far and wide that the conservative cause is little more than a criminal conspiracy in the first place. The conservatives are not our honorable opponents. They are an enemy of our nation and of freedom itself. If anything the conservatives are cleaved into two branches. First we have the rigged game people who want money for doing nothing good at all. The other half includes the morons like the tea party illiterates with a spattering of slightly better folk who simply want to identify with the rich or have sociopathic defects that cause them to ignore the harm that their beliefs produce. Why is there any debate when we know full well that the right wing shelters the American Nazis, skinheads, KKK and other racist and violent types such as the idiotic militias that have bloomed in the western states.
So thinking your point is worthless and giving an example of why is "missing it"?
A lot of US politics has devolved into cheering for one team or another hence utter rubbish like a team being "off limits" when the other one holds the executive branch. Don't take it personally when I consider such a view as being deliberately blinkered. Even when I threw you the bone of being critical of the current administration as well you took offence so I think you are taking this far too personally.
I suppose I should have been either more blunt ( it's a fucking stupid idea IMHO and comparing it to a Godwin is ridiculous ) or in attempting to be gentle I should have followed through and resisted the urge to put something in there that showed what I thought about such a self-serving "team player" proposal. I really don't see how we can discuss the current state of US policy on a lot of things without bringing up Bush, Clinton or even earlier Presidents.
While what others have done before does not excuse current actions another poster here put things well about people expecting a "five second statute of limitations" for the team they are cheering for - enabling such bullshit just to save time in arguments is IMHO worthless.
None of the above, I'm one of those people who has gotten burned because I didn't keep the purchase records for something 25 years earlier, and when I sold it and had to declare a profit, I spent many hours trying to find proof of the cost basis. Perhaps you have not yet bought (or inherited) real property, assets of declarable and insurable value, or stock, and thus have not yet encountered these issues (no, wait, if you're younger you may have bought stock in the no-certificate book-entry-only broker-keeps-records era rather than the old transferable-piece-of-paper era, which makes life a lot easier - until your broker goes under). Rather than insult you back, I will urge you to research the record-keeping requirements before the IRS expects you to pay tax on ordinary income for the ENTIRE sale price of something because, without proof of original investment cost, they peg it at zero.
It's another 'fake' scandal pushed by right-wing propaganda, I mean media, outlets.
The real problem is that these groups that are clearly influencing elections are trying to use a bad exemption that shouldn't be there in the first place.
But, it is a right-wing tactic to try and find any little scandal to justify doing nothing and feeling superior. Even though they are stupid and the ones causing all the problems in this country.
I don't care whether they were scrutinizing "Islamo-terrorist Nazi Anarchist March of Dimes" charity groups. Pretending to lose all the emails is criminally wrong.
No, in reality the IRS investigated all groups with political parties and movements in their names, since they're required by law (i.e. Congress) to only allow non-political groups to be granted tax exempt status. And the IRS investigated (and rejected) far more liberal groups than conservative groups. So (1) they were required to investigate political groups, so the investigation was not only proper, it was required by law passed by Congress, and (2) they didn't target Tea Party groups exclusively or even disproportionately.
So what were you complaining about?
I'd like to see the mission statements and crayon filled applications from some of those "liberal" groups entered. I mean let's be real, you know a bunch of idiots who don't know how to fill out forms and were justly denied make up a good deal of that number.
Each email system had a triplicate of backups done so they would not lose emails. They used Microsoft Exchange Server and digital tape backups. They used Outlook and backed up PST files to network drives.
If they lost her emails with a system like that it was no accident.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
The IRS needs to request the backup copy from the NSA. They're hoarders so they'll have a complete copy of the necessary files.
....and the Nazis burned down the building that contained birth records of Hilter's Grandparents. 'Poof' all proof that he was part Jewish.
IRS 'loses' records that would show Obama administration grossly abusing power. 'Poof'... just another 'massive right wing conspiracy' gone.
History repeats itself and intentions stay the same. 'Brown' is the new color of the DNC.
So what if her computer crashed? I'm sure they are running IMAP and everything is saved onto an email server such as exchange. And what do they mean her computer crashed? HD died or corrupt? Ram Died or corrupted? PSU Died? CPU Died? What?????????? Your telling me you can't fix her machine or at least piggy back her HD to recover hair emails(if it's pop). Bullshit! Bullshit!. Every damn government around the world is corrupt because humans are so easily corrupt. This computer bullshit just proves this women is fucking guilty.
Fan-fare!
Lerner was an IRS person who was promoted within the IRS by the IRS commissioner
Yeah, she was there in the Bush years as an IRS employee... and yeah she got promoted in Dec 2005 to a post she assumed in Jan 2006 (while Bush was in office) but the position was a supposedly totally non-political post back then. The problem is that the IRS is unionized - and ALL of the government employee unions in the US are associated with the Democrat party; therefore all government employees are statistically more likely to be Democrats than Republicans, Libertarians, etc. In this case, A Democrat was promoted in a non-discriminatory way within government while a Republican was in the White House and you are now trying to say that because Bush did not reach-down into the IRS to discriminate against a Democrat (which you would have undoubtably been outraged at IF he HAD) HE is to blame for her polititcal actions 6 years later. hmmmmm I guess Bush really IS responsible for all the crap happening under Obama - because Bush is responsible for Obama (because he did not sufficiently discriminate againsts him and mess with him years earlier when Obama was in a lower post in government...
Remember: One of the reasons Democrats listed for the Impeachment of Nixon was that he talked to his aides (caught on tape) about the possibility of using the IRS against his political opponents (the Democrats carefully-worded the charge to say "he "endeavoured to" rather than "did" as you will note below:
Article 2, charge 1:
"He has, acting personally and through his subordinates and agents, endeavoured to obtain from the Internal Revenue Service, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, confidential information contained in income tax returns for purposed not authorized by law, and to cause, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, income tax audits or other income tax investigations to be intitiated or conducted in a discriminatory manner."
[bold emphasis is mine]
Note: Obama has ACTUALLY DONE these things. Obama's IRS got the donor records of a pro-traditional-marriage group and gave them to the groups pro-gay-marriage opponents. Obama's IRS has stalled the tax-exempt processing of TEA Party groups for YEARS. Obama's IRS has forwarded personal tax information of TEA Partiers and Republicans to Democrats on Capitol Hill. And there is evidence (admittedly still unproven, but statistically too crazy to be accidental) that the IRS passed info on the president's enemies to the ATF, EPA and FBI which was then used to harass TEA Partiers.
You said: "The tea party is a group that openly advocates for people to do everything they can to get out of paying taxes"
Nope. That's NOT true. You are either dishonest, or a useful idiot. TEA is an acronym for "Taxed Enough Already" (as-in: "Stop raising taxes... we're taxed enough already. Start cutting government back down to the size it's supposed to be!"). The TEA Party movement (it's NOT an actual political party) is all about getting government smaller; getting it off the backs of, and out of the wallets of, average Americans. TEA Partiers are also NOT in-the-bag for big business (another dishonest accusation often flung at them) - they are hostile to bailouts and "too big to fail"; The Wall St banks bail-outs and car company bail-outs, were part of the spark that ignited the TEA Party movement. The TEA Party has nothing to do with the whacko-crazy types who are always running around the dark corners of the internet trying to find ways to dodge paying taxes (ask wesley Snipes. HE fell-in with some of those decidedly NOT Tea Pary types).
Your post makes about as much sense as saying "of COURSE Bush went to war in Iraq... Saddam Hussein hated his dad, and Democrats hated his dad, and Bush's enemies were Democrats therefore it was natural for him to go to war against Saddam Hussein who was obviously a Democrat." Get REAL. This sort of "reasoning" is completely insane. I know there are some liberals on Slashdot who cannot think their way out of a paper bag, but it's best for such people to stay quiet (self-control NOT imposed censorship) and let others presume them smart, than to post a completely ignorant rant and "out" themselves.
First, citing government-run pro-Democrat NPR on this subject is like citing Geobbels as an "unbiased" source in holocaust denial, or citing an article by Putin on the status of the Ukraine - an absolutelty insanely ridiculous exercise.
Second, The actions of the IRS were SEVERELY anti TEA Party:
1. Groups friendly to the President were approved within DAYS (particularly in the case of an application by Obama's brother who got his in 34 days PLUS retro-active certification!)
2. Groups (of ANY orientation) with actual standard problems were denied at the usual rate.
3. TEA Party groups were not given either an approval (allowing them to get busy) OR a denial (allowing them to prep and file an appeal). They were simply tossed-into legal limbo unable to move forward as an approved group (and therefore not able to take-in money from donors, most of who require evidence of the tax status of the groups they support)
Third, even the NPR page you cited admits (READ the table) that 100% of the "progressive" groups were approved and that TEA Partiers were asked for 3 times as much supporting information to get their approvals - with TEA Partiers being put through so much of a hassle that nearly half eventually simply GAVE UP trying to get certified.... that's VERY effective suppression of the President's "enemies". Hell, the IRS had NO business setting-aside and specially-processing applications with "TEA Party" in the title to begin with! They are BY LAW supposed to be BLIND to politics! This meant that the already tax-exempted liberal groups like the unions (who'd been organized like this for DECADES) were free to do their voter outreach and voulunteer training efforts through two entire national elections while the TEA Partiers were being suppressed - many afraid to do ANYTHING political or take ANY contributions while being investigated by Obama's IRS.
READ the IG report! The IG found that there were many "liberal" or "progressive" groups and that while these too were selected for special processing, the "special processing" that THEY got was FASTER and EASIER processing. Liberal Democrats took a clip of that (the bit about lib/prog groups also being "targeted") and ran to their Democrat-friendly press outlets (Like ABC,CBS,NBC,NYT) to run stories saying "nothing to see here! Both sides were abused!". This was a completely dishonest move and both the Democrat politicians and the Democrat journalists involved KNEW IT - all they had to do was READ the report.
The effect is even worse when you consider the 800-pound gorilla in the room: Most liberal/progressive groups got their certifications many years ago and have long enjoyed their status. TEA Partiers, however, only got organized in 2009 and 2010 in response to the Bush bailouts of the Wall St banks, th Bush temporary bailouts of the car companies, and the Obama big car company bailouts, stimulus law, and healthcare law. As a result, the new scrutiny under Obama of the TEA Partiers (using standards never previously applied to such groups) hit nearly all TEA Partiers while missing ALL previously-approved liberals and progressives and only affecting the tiny fraction of lob/prog groups who applied recently (and whose applications were SPED UP)
Impeachment time has come, High Crimes and treason with the Taliban prisoners, Making sure Iraq and Afganistan fall So many laws and oaths violated that you can't keep track of them.
Who is more likely to be lying: the NSA or the IRS
Do we have to pick one? I'm confident they're both lying. The secret lies in your other statement:
Everyone in the political establishment believed the NSA version
I think a more true statement is that everyone in the political establishment had a vested interest in accepting the NSA version.
Also, speaking of snark requirements, the blank comments textbox in beta has a pretty snarky placeholder text: "Compose your masterpiece"
The Obama admin's own IG report proves everything you posted is a lie.
Yes, the IRS set-aside both tea party and progressive applications, but it then accellerated approval of the progressives while throwing the tea partiers into an endless cycle of re-submitted questions and paperwork preventing their approval but also denying them any ability to appeal a "no" result, by never giving them a negative judgement either. Progressives were approved in as little as two weeks; half of the tea partiers were denied so long they gave up and some are still dangling in regulatory limbo 3 YEARS into the process which the IRS says should take about 90 days.
That's because the Tea Party groups were just put on hold forever. But don't let fact bother you.
Even emails to herself would go through the mail server.
I did NOT suggest that so don't take it personally when I think it's a very bad idea to stop discussion about Bush, Clinton, Johnson, whoever doing similar things.
Uhh, the point you are making was the exact point I was making.
The link I provided has 'irs-scrutiny-worse-for-conservatives' in it.
Additionally, the IRS has released conservative private tax payer information to liberal groups. There is no question about that fact.
Additionally, last week, the House Oversight Committee indicated that Lerner illegally emailed private taxpayer information to the FBI.
your opinions mean less than nothing, son.
There's an 18 minute gap in the backups.
No, in reality the IRS investigated all groups with political parties and movements in their names, since they're required by law (i.e. Congress) to only allow non-political groups to be granted tax exempt status. And the IRS investigated (and rejected) far more liberal groups than conservative groups. So (1) they were required to investigate political groups, so the investigation was not only proper, it was required by law passed by Congress, and (2) they didn't target Tea Party groups exclusively or even disproportionately.
So what were you complaining about?
No, in reality the IRS investigated all groups with political parties and movements in their names, since they're required by law (i.e. Congress) to only allow non-political groups to be granted tax exempt status. And the IRS investigated (and rejected) far more liberal groups than conservative groups. So (1) they were required to investigate political groups, so the investigation was not only proper, it was required by law passed by Congress, and (2) they didn't target Tea Party groups exclusively or even disproportionately.
So what were you complaining about?
you think 292 to 6 was not disproportionate? How ironic, the left claims to be the moral majority on everything that matters, and that the right is some kind of fringe group of 1% homophobic racists. Yet 292 groups were targeted for scrutiny vs 6 for progressive groups.
Yeah nothing disproportionate about that i guess. Move along, nothing to see here. Lets get all hopey changey and sweep this under the rug. The only way you can believe that crap is if all your news comes from Huffinton Post, MSNBC, Mother Jones, and Salon. In other words, wake up youre a communist.
You're picking random numbers to try to make a comparison that's not meaningful. 292 groups applying for tax-exempt status had names contained "tea party", "patriot", or "9/12", who were all given more scrutiny, and only 20 groups applying for tax-exempt status had names contained "progress" or "progressive". Of course, those numbers you care about are only about a third of the groups given deeper scrutiny - the large majority of groups investigated for possibly being political groups (and this not allowed to claim tax exempt status and hide their donor lists) weren't right-wing groups, they had terms like "Democrat", "Occupy" or "Israel" in their names, and only a third of the groups were right-wing groups, so the scrutiny wasn't politically biased against right-wing groups. If anything, it affected more left-wing groups than right. It was still a bad idea to use a list of terms to trigger deeper investigation, of course, but as the "BOLO list" system was put in place by a conservative Republican who was trying to make the system more efficient and consistent, and was applied to groups across the political spectrum, and the outcome was that only a third of the groups affected were right-wing, the evidence suggest that it wasn't politically biased against the right-wing.
The political bias that is most obvious is that the Inspector General's office in charge of the IRS audit had been asked by House Oversight Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) "to narrowly focus on Tea Party organizations". And, of course, Issa kept most of the testimony secret, selecting a few bits to try to distort the program as anti-right-wing.
The reality is that using a list of terms to watch for is a bad mechanism, because it's substituting a mechanical rule for human judgement in making a determination about a group's being political vs. social, and that's wrong. But if you ignore the rhetoric, the facts don't support the accusation that the BOLO lists were aimed purely at right-wing groups. The real problem is that Congress passed a law requiring the IRS to make an extremely vague determination ("primarily political") so the IRS came up with a system for making that determination that pissed people off.
Looking at the lists, I can't see how most of them were ever granted tax exempt status. How can a group with a political party in its name, that raises money for and donates time to political candidates, not be a political group? The IRS should have rejected far more of the groups, both Republicans/Tea Party and Democrats, and instead of seems like all they did was ask a lot of questions and then approve almost every application, which seems a bit pathetic.
Enable 3D printed prosthetics!
(marijuana was originally regulated via tax stamps, similar to the way machine guns and destructive devices are currently regulated)
Close, but not quite similar. They made the law mandating the tax stamps for marijuana, but they never made the stamps. The real goal was to make it illegal to use, so they just made it impossible to use it legally.
-- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
Mmm hmm. Delegated authority. The IRS has it.
The alternative is for Congress to write 70,000 pages of tax rules. Realists consider that a fucking shit-tarded idea.
The other alternative is for rich people to pay even less taxes than they do now because [hand waving] see? no tax liability!
You owned real property and didn't have any paperwork for your cost basis? No paperwork at all? Nothing filed with the local county or anything? Wow, yep, that sucks.
The lesson is that we don't live in prehistorical times; we live in the modern world where paperwork is important; so keep important paperwork. In that regard you are right on. If you are dealing with large purchases of real property then, yeah, go ahead and keep your bill of sale, or be prepared to pay taxes on your whole take.
When I sold some real property I did still have the paperwork but I never needed it. My accountant asked me how much I'd paid for it, wrote down that amount, and that was it. Mine was a pretty simple transaction though, not the kind of thing the IRS would sniff at.
Also I once asked a tax accountant how long to keep tax records. She told me, for the IRS, seven years is more than long enough; but I should still keep them forever because of Social Security. If I ever have to prove to SS how much I earned decades ago, tax records are the gold standard for doing that.
Bullshit. A bunch of tax-dogding scofflaw asshats demanded an illegal tax haven for their blatantly partisan political operations. The IRS responded appropriately by telling them, fuck you, that's not what the tax law says. Then the crybabies ran off to their anarchist asshat representatives who made it into a political sideshow full of lies and nonsense.
Fuck those asshats. Pay your fucking taxes you goddamned asshats.
1. They asked about religion because religion is relevant to the tax code
2. They asked about book reading because reading books is relevant to the tax code
What else you got? So far, you've only got the IRS following the law.
Read the original post - the IRS writes its own tax code, which is in direct opposition of what was said by the original poster to whom I respond. Congress gives some generalities, and the IRS creates all the details. How close those details match the original generalities and intent is often quite questionable...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
1. They asked about religion because religion is relevant to the tax code
These were not religious organizations, nor were they applying for non-profit status in the context of religious activity. They didn't mention religious affiliation in their applications or mission statements. Just like their liberal-leaning counterparts, who were NOT asked the very same things.
2. They asked about book reading because reading books is relevant to the tax code
What part of the tax code are you thinking of, exactly, that has them asking conservative individuals which books they read while not asking their progressive counterparts the same questions? Please be specific.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
What was that about facts bothering you?
The fact that clearly political groups managed to illegally avoid disclosing their donors to fund political campaigns, because a small part of the IRS that shouldn't have anything to do with political campaigns didn't prefect dot every "I" and cross every "T". It pisses me of the Rove and others (some liberal) got away with breaking the law so blatantly.
So you agree that Congress delegated that authority to the IRS? And you agree that it would have been absurd for Congress to write 70,000 pages of details themselves? And you agree that after those rules were written Congress was satisfied enough not to provide new direction to the IRS for changing the rules?
Okay, then we agree, no need to argue about anything.
1. Some of the events on the calendars of these groups included prayer breakfasts. The IRS asks about religion in order to determine whether the organization is political or religious. If you are a religious organization you don't qualify for PAC exemptions; and if you are a PAC then you don't qualify for religious exemptions. To determine what you are, the IRS asks you questions.
2. Some of the groups claimed to be book clubs. When a group tries to claim tax-free status as a "book club" (in quotes) then the IRS should (and thank goodness in this case did) ask about the books they are reading, to see if they were frauds -- which they were, of course.
Look, I get it, conservatives don't like taxes and don't like the government knowing anything about their finances, so they sure as shit don't like the IRS. I get it. But for better or worse (probably worse) we've decided to have a huge complicated tax code enforced by a bunch of bean counters, so when new groups of people whose political goal is to stop paying taxes ask for various types of tax-exempt statuses, it is appropriate for the bean counters to ask some questions. The alternative is to have no taxation, because everyone would claim their house is a church. Yes, again, I know that's what the conservatives want: zero taxes and churches on ever lot; but today that isn't the rules.
I should go start the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Fuck You I Don't Like Taxes. I imagine you and the rest of the Republicans (and farther-right parties) would gleefully defend my tax-exempt status and join my church. But if you did, we'd still all be tax fraudsters.
Everyone assumes it was political bias though. I haven't seen any proof that it was bias. Was there a legitimate reason for the extra scrutiny? Were there shady groups of people using the Tea Party phenomenon to set up shady tax shelters or shady "give us money to take down the government!!" scams? I sure noticed a huge increase in "buy gold now the world is ending" commercials when the Tea Party rose up.
It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that most of those 292 new "patriotic" groups did need some extra scrutiny.
I don't think I ever disagreed there. The point is that the IRS makes the rules, Congress sets general guidelines by their laws. But as we've seen - departments are often quite willing to "color outside the lines" when it comes to making the actual rules you have to abide by.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Not real estate, that would of course have paperwork.
Bullshit right back at you.
"A series of IRS documents, provided to ThinkProgress under the Freedom of Information Act, appears to contradict the claims by Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) and his House Oversight and Government Reform Committee that only Tea Party organizations applying for tax-exempt status âoereceived systematic scrutiny because of their political beliefs.â The 22 âoeBe On the Look Outâ keywords lists, distributed to staff reviewing applications between August 12, 2010 and April 19, 2013, included more explicit references to progressive groups, ACORN successors, and medical marijuana organizations than to Tea Party entities.
The IRS provided the heavily-redacted lists to ThinkProgress, after nearly a year-long search. From the earliest lists through 2012, the âoehistoricalâ section of the lists encouraged reviewers to watch out for âoeprogressiveâ groups with names like âoeblue,â as their requests for 501(c)(3) charitable status might be inappropriate. Their inclusion in this section suggests that the concern predates the initial 2010 list.
Explicit references to âoeTea Party,â included in the âoeemerging issuesâ section of the lists, also began in August 2010 â" but stopped appearing after the May 10, 2011 list. From that point on, the lists instructed agents to flag all political advocacy groups of any stripe. The documents instructed the agents to forward any âoeorganization involved with political, lobbying, or advocacyâ applying for 501(c)(3) or 501(c)(4) status be forwarded to âoegroup 7822â for additional review. Groups under both categories are limited in the amount of of lobbying and political activity each can undertake."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/...
Fair enough. I was misled by "Perhaps you have not yet bought (or inherited) real property". Whatever it was, perhaps stocks, it must have been valuable enough that when you sold it the profits were sufficient to pique IRS attention. Anything like that, where you want to prove cost basis, then it's prudent to keep a receipt, but I imagine other forms of evidence are also sometimes accepted. You're not the first person to be nipped by the tax man for lacking receipts, and it sucks.
I feel you, but the people with the important opinion are in Congress. If Congress is dissatisfied with rules made under delegated authority, then they haul directors in to answer questions. It happens all the time, every month or two a new commission is asking new questions of somebody. So if Congress thinks the IRS is coloring outside the lines, Congress would tell them to knock it off. If they don't do that, it's reasonable to conclude that the rules accord with the law well enough to satisfy Congress.
But as we see with the current issue, just how much pull/influence does Congress have with those bureaucrats? What is the repercussion for Lerner? Heck, what about Holder himself already found in contempt of Congress? The White House has all the power, Congress is now just a deliberative gathering of busybodies.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
In other news, we proved that Saddam Hussein had NBC weapons and we located and disposed of them appropriately after the invasion, so I really don't know what ignorant Dems have been whining about all these years. Probably they're just dumb.